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M&K's Retrievers
12-06-2011, 09:27 AM
I don't know if it's his egotism, stupidity or both for him to break it off in everyone with this trip. He gripes about Congress not doing anything while all he does is golf, travel, campaign and raise donations. What a truly poor excuse for POTUS.:confused:

JDogger
12-06-2011, 10:44 AM
It is all politics. Liberals attacked Bush for X and praise Obama for X. Conservatives praise Bush for Y, but attack Obama for Y.

In reality, there is no such thing as a president being on vacation. Any honest person will admit to that fact.

JD

M&K's Retrievers
12-06-2011, 10:55 AM
Normally I would agree with you, JD, but this guy is exceeding the limit.

JDogger
12-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Maybe you should do a comparasion with his predecessor. I could provide you links, but like with your thread on Obama's accomplishments I think you would be better served to take the initiative.

M&K's Retrievers
12-06-2011, 12:21 PM
Maybe you should do a comparasion with his predecessor. I could provide you links, but like with your thread on Obama's accomplishments I think you would be better served to take the initiative.

Why? I don't believe his predecessor was faced with the number of problems/issues Obama has nor did Bush bitch and moan about Congress' job performance. I'm just saying his timing sucks. Actually, I would rather he stay on vacation.

mjh345
12-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Normally I would agree with you, JD, but this guy is exceeding the limit.

What is the limit then Mike? Right now BHO has taken about one third the vacation time his predecessor had during the same time in office.

I didn't see any of you "Republican=Good Democrat=Bad", people criticizing him for taking 3X the vacation time at a time when he had started two ill advised wars that cost us incredibly in terms of lives, treasure, credibility, security freedom etc.

I could care less how much vacation time the POTUS takes. It is a stressful job. Reagan took more than 2X the time of BHO, but he did a good job.

I think we may have been better off if GWB and BHO would have taken every day off.

Surely you can think of something substantive to criticize BHO about rather than regurgitating some talking heads erroneously applied Party line double standard on supposed vacation time.

We've got to start focusing on substantive issues rather than made up idiotic issues like Birth Certificates and vacations. We have got to get this Buffoon out of office. The way to do it is to keep our eye on the ball.

After 8 years of Bush and 4 more of Obama I really don't know if this country can stand another 4 years of crooked ineptness at the helm.

He has to be defeated focus on his real failings; there are plenty of them

charly_t
12-06-2011, 01:01 PM
.................................................. ............

He has to be defeated focus on his real failings; there are plenty of them

You got that right. Good post :-)

road kill
12-06-2011, 01:17 PM
What is the limit then Mike? Right now BHO has taken about one third the vacation time his predecessor had during the same time in office.

I didn't see any of you "Republican=Good Democrat=Bad", people criticizing him for taking 3X the vacation time at a time when he had started two ill advised wars that cost us incredibly in terms of lives, treasure, credibility, security freedom etc.

I could care less how much vacation time the POTUS takes. It is a stressful job. Reagan took more than 2X the time of BHO, but he did a good job.

I think we may have been better off if GWB and BHO would have taken every day off.

Surely you can think of something substantive to criticize BHO about rather than regurgitating some talking heads erroneously applied Party line double standard on supposed vacation time.

We've got to start focusing on substantive issues rather than made up idiotic issues like Birth Certificates and vacations. We have got to get this Buffoon out of office. The way to do it is to keep our eye on the ball.

After 8 years of Bush and 4 more of Obama I really don't know if this country can stand another 4 years of crooked ineptness at the helm.

He has to be defeated focus on his real failings; there are plenty of them

If your only excuse for the vacations under the current circumstances is that Bush did it, you have lost the argument!


RK

2tall
12-06-2011, 01:28 PM
What is the limit then Mike? Right now BHO has taken about one third the vacation time his predecessor had during the same time in office.

I didn't see any of you "Republican=Good Democrat=Bad", people criticizing him for taking 3X the vacation time at a time when he had started two ill advised wars that cost us incredibly in terms of lives, treasure, credibility, security freedom etc.

I could care less how much vacation time the POTUS takes. It is a stressful job. Reagan took more than 2X the time of BHO, but he did a good job.

I think we may have been better off if GWB and BHO would have taken every day off.

Surely you can think of something substantive to criticize BHO about rather than regurgitating some talking heads erroneously applied Party line double standard on supposed vacation time.

We've got to start focusing on substantive issues rather than made up idiotic issues like Birth Certificates and vacations. We have got to get this Buffoon out of office. The way to do it is to keep our eye on the ball.

After 8 years of Bush and 4 more of Obama I really don't know if this country can stand another 4 years of crooked ineptness at the helm.

He has to be defeated focus on his real failings; there are plenty of them

I never realized you thought this way! You and I are in 100% agreement.
(oh yeah, I am NOT at work today;) )

mjh345
12-06-2011, 01:35 PM
If your only excuse for the vacations under the current circumstances is that Bush did it, you have lost the argument!


RKReally Stan?
What you took from my post was that I was making an excuse for BHO taking vacations?
Really Stan?

road kill
12-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Really Stan?
What you took from my post was that I was making an excuse for BHO taking vacations?
Really Stan?

I don't see what Bush has to do with it, unless you were making an excuse, or a rationalization.

So...yeah, really Marc, really!!:D


RK

mjh345
12-06-2011, 03:21 PM
I don't see what Bush has to do with it, unless you were making an excuse, or a rationalization.

So...yeah, really Marc, really!!:D


RKStan, initially I thought you may be one of those Rep=Good Dem=Bad people and that your problem with my post was that I made some disparaging comparisons to the Republican GWB.

Clearly I can see from your response here that I would have been WAY off base :)

Can you show me where I made an excuse for BHO in regards to vacation time or anything else for that matter in my post

Now you say that you dont see what Bush has to do with it, and that I must just be using him for an excuse or rationalization for Obamas vacation schedule

If you will reread my post which ruffled your feathers you will notice that it is in response to a quoted excerpt from M & K. In that excerpt M & K says that he feels Obama has exceeded the limit.

I really didn't know what "the limit" was for POTUS vacations. Do you? I don't know if it is in the job description.

I wouldn't think you would find many comparable careers to liken it to as it is rather a unique job. Wouldn't you agree?

I looked up BHO's vacation usage and found out that he is averaging less than 2 vacation days per month on the job That seemed reasonable to me, but like I said I could care less how much vacation time a POTUS takes. It is a rather stressful job, and my concern is how well they are doing on the job; regardless of their vacation schedule.

Since the OP felt that BHO had exceeded the limit, I looked for comparable vacation schedules. In light of the uniqueness of the position I felt the best comparable would be other Presidents. Since GWB is the most recent POTUS to compare him to I felt he would be the most relevant Comp.

Additionally M & K had indicated that he felt Obama should'nt be taking so much vacation time in light of the major problems we are dealing with. Problems such as the economy, wars, national security, housing bust, spiralling national debt etc. Since he inherited these issues from GWB I felt that was another reason to use him as a Comp for how much vacation time is suitable for a POTUS dealing with these similar set of problems

You apparently disagree with me. So Stan would you please explain to me whom or what do you think would be a more relevant Comparable to draw a comparison to Obamas vacation schedule. Maybe a union school teacher from Wisconsin, or the kid at the local Dairy Queen could have been used, Due to the aformentioned uniqueness of the job itself and the problems inherited from the Bush administration I chose to use him.
Please tell me where I went wrong

I've spent more time on this inane subject than I cared to . So in the future if you want to debate reading comprehension skills or try to convice me over to your Republican=Good Democrat=Bad agenda save the effort,. You see I,m more of the Politician=Bad school of thought; regardless of party affiliation.

However anytime you wanna talk Cardinals or dogs {this is after all a dog website} I'm your man.

I'm going to go spend time with my dogs and enjoy the crisp cold Beautiful day and chase some more roosters. Hope you get the chance to do the same with Elvis

FOM
12-06-2011, 03:28 PM
Just as a comment to the "limit" - I think he should have to work and save vaction hours just like the majority of working stiffs...I get a grand total of 10 days vacation, plus 6 holidays...when I was in the military I got federal holidays off and 2.5 days of PTO, but I couldn't go in the hole to use it...I think the POTUS should be held to these limits...being in the military is a 24x7 job so is the POTUS, but the POTUS never have to pick up a rifle and walk in harms way, so no excuses about how much sacrifice POTUS makes for his country....federal holidays off and only 2.5 days of PTO per month!

road kill
12-06-2011, 04:06 PM
Stan, initially I thought you may be one of those Rep=Good Dem=Bad people and that your problem with my post was that I made some disparaging comparisons to the Republican GWB.

Clearly I can see from your response here that I would have been WAY off base :)

Can you show me where I made an excuse for BHO in regards to vacation time or anything else for that matter in my post

Now you say that you dont see what Bush has to do with it, and that I must just be using him for an excuse or rationalization for Obamas vacation schedule

If you will reread my post which ruffled your feathers you will notice that it is in response to a quoted excerpt from M & K. In that excerpt M & K says that he feels Obama has exceeded the limit.

I really didn't know what "the limit" was for POTUS vacations. Do you? I don't know if it is in the job description.

I wouldn't think you would find many comparable careers to liken it to as it is rather a unique job. Wouldn't you agree?

I looked up BHO's vacation usage and found out that he is averaging less than 2 vacation days per month on the job That seemed reasonable to me, but like I said I could care less how much vacation time a POTUS takes. It is a rather stressful job, and my concern is how well they are doing on the job; regardless of their vacation schedule.

Since the OP felt that BHO had exceeded the limit, I looked for comparable vacation schedules. In light of the uniqueness of the position I felt the best comparable would be other Presidents. Since GWB is the most recent POTUS to compare him to I felt he would be the most relevant Comp.

Additionally M & K had indicated that he felt Obama should'nt be taking so much vacation time in light of the major problems we are dealing with. Problems such as the economy, wars, national security, housing bust, spiralling national debt etc. Since he inherited these issues from GWB I felt that was another reason to use him as a Comp for how much vacation time is suitable for a POTUS dealing with these similar set of problems

You apparently disagree with me. So Stan would you please explain to me whom or what do you think would be a more relevant Comparable to draw a comparison to Obamas vacation schedule. Maybe a union school teacher from Wisconsin, or the kid at the local Dairy Queen could have been used, Due to the aformentioned uniqueness of the job itself and the problems inherited from the Bush administration I chose to use him.
Please tell me where I went wrong

I've spent more time on this inane subject than I cared to . So in the future if you want to debate reading comprehension skills or try to convice me over to your Republican=Good Democrat=Bad agenda save the effort,. You see I,m more of the Politician=Bad school of thought; regardless of party affiliation.

However anytime you wanna talk Cardinals or dogs {this is after all a dog website} I'm your man.

I'm going to go spend time with my dogs and enjoy the crisp cold Beautiful day and chase some more roosters. Hope you get the chance to do the same with Elvis


Elvis is going to get feather goodies at the hunt club this weekend.
We are not training now, this is play time.
I love to watch him get after pheasants.
Makes me laugh.


You are correct, there is no official limit.
My issue is the economy and his hubrus.

That and I am anything but a progressive, and I have always been proud to be an American.
So much so that I did pick up a weapon and protect her.
Whilst some were stateside "listening to rock and roll and experimenting with sex and drugs!"
(from "An Officer & a Gentlemen")
They are in charge right now!!!:shock:

Just sayin'.........

RK

M&K's Retrievers
12-06-2011, 05:39 PM
Let me clarify my original post. I don't give a damn how much time any POTUS takes off. My point is/was that it seems to me to be really stupid and/or arrogant of him to take off when his approval ratings are at an all time low and after he has blasted Congress for doing nothing. It would be fine with me if he played golf in Hawaii every day.

Gerry Clinchy
12-07-2011, 10:53 AM
Perhaps the annoying thing is that he is urging Congress to work until the job is done ... his presence in DC might be a matter of providing leadership in demonstrating that he is also willing to put his nose to the grindstone with them; placing some personal stuff aside to get the job done.

No love lost for Congress here ... but there may be times when one must lead from the front, not the back?

sandyg
12-07-2011, 11:34 AM
How many instances have there been where Obama said things to the effect of "I will not rest until every American that wants a job has one" and then he rushes off to Martha's Vineyard or Hawaii? How much longer must the hubris continue before the people wake up?

I don't think comparing Obama's vacation to Bush is fair. Bush spent time at his ranch with his staff during a time of comparative calm. Obama is riding children's bicycles while wearing a silly looking helmet or he's eating ice cream while watching a basketball game during this depression and two wars and record deficit spending. I would think that if Obama wanted to get away he would take his staff and work out of his home in Chicago. He still has a home in Chicago doesn't he? If not, I'm sure he could stay with his buddies Bill Ayers or Rev. Wright.

zeus3925
12-07-2011, 12:08 PM
I remember when Ike was POTUS. He was constantly criticized for his golf gambits and frequent vacations. So what else is new??

Gerry Clinchy
12-08-2011, 07:25 PM
Now it's being said that Obama has indicated he will postpone his trip due to the upcoming deadline for a govt shutdown ... yet again. No budget has been passed since April 2009.

M&K's Retrievers
12-08-2011, 08:21 PM
Now it's being said that Obama has indicated he will postpone his trip due to the upcoming deadline for a govt shutdown ... yet again. No budget has been passed since April 2009.

Fear not. Michele and the kids are going out ahead of him. Can't have the proud first lady missing out on any needed R&R.:rolleyes:

Ken Bora
12-09-2011, 10:55 PM
Fear not. Michele and the kids are going out ahead of him. Can't have the proud first lady missing out on any needed R&R.:rolleyes:

Hhhmmmm
I thought,
that this time of year,
that First Ladies of The United States,
were busy readying,
the White House Christmas Trees and decorations,
For the holiday.
Picking the theme.
Designing the backgrounds,
organizing the workers and staff.
I vividly remember Laura Bush doing it.
And Barbra Bush was on 60 minutes with Morley Schafer.
I even remember Hilary doing it.
And who can forget the classic footage of Mrs. Kennedy?
Isn't Mrs. Obama's place decking the halls with boughs of holly?
 
.

caryalsobrook
12-10-2011, 07:27 AM
Hhhmmmm
I thought,
that this time of year,
that First Ladies of The United States,
were busy readying,
the White House Christmas Trees and decorations,
For the holiday.
Picking the theme.
Designing the backgrounds,
organizing the workers and staff.
I vividly remember Laura Bush doing it.
And Barbra Bush was on 60 minutes with Morley Schafer.
I even remember Hilary doing it.
And who can forget the classic footage of Mrs. Kennedy?
Isn't Mrs. Obama's place decking the halls with boughs of holly?
 
.


Only when she can be proud of the country.:rolleyes:

2tall
12-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Hmmmm....... If our next president is Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin will you expect the first husband to decorate the tree and house and to appear on style shows? Sorry, I realize that is far off topic, but I thought maybe, just a little of our attitudes had changed as far as "women's roles".

caryalsobrook
12-10-2011, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=2tall;891123]Hmmmm....... If our next president is Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin will you expect the first husband to decorate the tree and house and to appear on style shows? Sorry, I realize that is far off topic, but I thought maybe, just a little of our attitudes had changed as far as "women's roles".[/QUOT

Hmmmmmmm YES

Becky Mills
12-10-2011, 03:03 PM
Ahhhhh Ken. You know I love you and goodness knows I dislike the current First Lady's attitude toward most everything. But I've got to go with Carol on this one. Most of the time our own halls don't even get decked cause I'm either working or playing with dogs.
I do believe the world is just coming to an end. I just took up for Michelle Obama. Nope. Wait a minute. I didn't either. I stuck up for wimmin folks in general.

road kill
12-10-2011, 04:03 PM
I think most folks who believe in Christmas and what it stands for take the time to do some decorating to commemorate the season.

Of course those that don't believe in Christmas or what it stands for.......well.......they are busy with other things.


RK

BonMallari
12-10-2011, 04:05 PM
Hmmmm....... If our next president is Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin will you expect the first husband to decorate the tree and house and to appear on style shows? Sorry, I realize that is far off topic, but I thought maybe, just a little of our attitudes had changed as far as "women's roles".

I have always viewed the First Lady and the family as a symbol of Americana, I look at the First Lady as the nation's official "hostess with the mostess"...I dont seem to get that from the current residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, but in all fairness , I will mark them as " present - incomplete"..

I dont think that would change if we were to have a female President, but considering how the family structure is disintegrating daily in our world ,the point may be moot...What if we ever got a single person as president or a same sex couple as president

luvmylabs23139
12-10-2011, 04:23 PM
James Buchanan was unmarried. His niece filled the role of White House Hostess.

Marvin S
12-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Hhhmmmm
I thought,
that this time of year,
that First Ladies of The United States,
were busy readying,
the White House Christmas Trees and decorations,
For the holiday.
Picking the theme.
Designing the backgrounds,
organizing the workers and staff.
I vividly remember Laura Bush doing it.
And Barbra Bush was on 60 minutes with Morley Schafer.
I even remember Hilary doing it.
And who can forget the classic footage of Mrs. Kennedy?
Isn't Mrs. Obama's place decking the halls with boughs of holly?


Have you noticed? Those who make the most noise about gender roles generally have little to offer & are certainly not role models for anything. Usually people do what they are good at, which would fit what is happening.

Maybe this is part of that change that BHO campaigned on :).

Becky Mills
12-10-2011, 06:08 PM
I think most folks who believe in Christmas and what it stands for take the time to do some decorating to commemorate the season.

Of course those that don't believe in Christmas or what it stands for.......well.......they are busy with other things.


RK

RK, believe me, I very much believe in Christmas and what it stands for. But a lot of years (and this is definitely looking like one of them) a sparsely decorated tree is it. Invariably I end up getting last minute assignments in December and I'm not in a position to turn down work.
Besides celebrating with family (who decorate, trust me) I celebrate in my own way by going to as many church music programs as I can. This year I've been to two that were absolutely wonderful. They helped me remember the true meaning of Christmas much better than frantically throwing out a few decorations on top of an inch of dust.
As for the First Lady, she doesn't have that excuse. She could definitely have it done. I just don't think that decorating should automatically be considered woman's work.

road kill
12-10-2011, 06:23 PM
RK, believe me, I very much believe in Christmas and what it stands for. But a lot of years (and this is definitely looking like one of them) a sparsely decorated tree is it. Invariably I end up getting last minute assignments in December and I'm not in a position to turn down work.
Besides celebrating with family (who decorate, trust me) I celebrate in my own way by going to as many church music programs as I can. This year I've been to two that were absolutely wonderful. They helped me remember the true meaning of Christmas much better than frantically throwing out a few decorations on top of an inch of dust.
As for the First Lady, she doesn't have that excuse. She could definitely have it done. I just don't think that decorating should automatically be considered woman's work.
With all due respect Becky, I think you missed my point.

RK

Becky Mills
12-10-2011, 06:30 PM
RK, I must have, I can be pretty dense sometimes. Would you mind trying again? If it was the part about decorating being women's work that was a reference to Ken's post.

JDogger
12-10-2011, 07:10 PM
With all due respect Becky, I think you missed my point.

RK

Well, that happens to all of us on PP with fair regularity, Eh Stan?

BTW, What does Christmas mean to you, Stan? Ken?

I think most of us here knows what it means to us. Or should it be defined for us? JD

PS I think we have a lot more to worry about than someone else's holiday vacation schedule.

M&K's Retrievers
12-10-2011, 07:25 PM
With all due respect Becky, I think you missed my point.

RK

I don't think I did.

M&K's Retrievers
12-10-2011, 07:27 PM
....

PS I think we have a lot more to worry about than someone else's holiday vacation schedule.

We do, JD, but I think you missed the point of the thread.

JDogger
12-10-2011, 07:53 PM
We do, JD, but I think you missed the point of the thread.

I reread your OP Mike. You think it unwise, and disingenous for him to take vacation when pending legislation is on the table. Looking at the various press releases he may well delay joining his family for the holidays. I don't know. Can't find anything definitive.

If you think I missed the point, please 'splain it to me? I know your dislike for Obama and I'm OK with that. Please explain....JD

Do you think he just goes on vacation and turns off his Iphone and does not continue to do his job? Really? The President is only the President when he is in the WH?

Hug yer g-kids and your dogs. If I'm the first to say it here....Merry Christmas and HNY. JD

2tall
12-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Ahhhhh Ken. You know I love you and goodness knows I dislike the current First Lady's attitude toward most everything. But I've got to go with Carol on this one. Most of the time our own halls don't even get decked cause I'm either working or playing with dogs.
I do believe the world is just coming to an end. I just took up for Michelle Obama. Nope. Wait a minute. I didn't either. I stuck up for wimmin folks in general.

Ah Becky, I love you! I am not an Obama fan or any other politico fan. I too believe that the world is getting very close to the end as we grew up knowing it. But when people make decorating a big white house that we paid for part of their decision on how to lead the country, we are in deeper than I even thought. I can not believe I am even posting on this! (We have no decorations, all of mine are in storage 5000 miles away) But we plan to spend Christmas Eve in the Taos pueblo watching the indian dances and bon fire. The spirit still remains.

Ken Bora
12-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Hmmmm....... If our next president is Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin will you expect the first husband to decorate the tree and house and to appear on style shows?......

Yes,
It is one of the "Jobs" the position entails. And as for a first husband doing it. Lets take the hypothetical Bill Clinton First Dude example. I bet he would do a heck of a job and might even personally hang the missile toe. It is not that the job is a mans or woman's. It is the duty of the first Lady, be she a she or a he.
 
 
.

2tall
12-10-2011, 09:42 PM
Ah Becky, I love you! I am not an Obama fan or any other politico fan. I too believe that the world is getting very close to the end as we grew up knowing it. But when people make decorating a big white house that we paid for part of their decision on how to lead the country, we are in deeper than I even thought. I can not believe I am even posting on this! (We have no decorations, all of mine are in storage 5000 miles away) But we plan to spend Christmas Eve in the Taos pueblo watching the indian dances and bon fire. The spirit still remains.


Ken, this is what I am talking about. Why the hell does it matter?

M&K's Retrievers
12-10-2011, 10:16 PM
.......

Do you think he just goes on vacation and turns off his Iphone and does not continue to do his job? Really? The President is only the President when he is in the WH? No, JD. Actually, I don't think it matters where he is or what he's doing. I'm talking appearances here. He bitches and moans about Congress not doing anything, then hauls arse to Hawaii. If he had stayed in DC and "worked" through the holidays, it would at least appear that he really gives a shat.

Hug yer g-kids and your dogs. If I'm the first to say it here....Merry Christmas and HNY. Thanks! Tomorrow, gonna give the 2 oldest some money and take them shopping for toys for "Toys For Tots". We will see how that works out. :) JD


..........

JDogger
12-10-2011, 11:08 PM
..........

You win Mike, the broom is yours. JD

Rachel Young
12-11-2011, 09:09 AM
I'll hold the ladder while Todd Palin decorates the tree!