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View Full Version : Governor Scott Walker/My Hero!!!!



road kill
12-12-2011, 10:28 AM
If you see people asking for walkers RECALL signatures hand them a copy of this...

Received this and sharing it, plus wanting an answer to my question: Why was WEA Trust Insurance allowed to rip off the Wisconsin taxpayer for so many years? Why was the corruption allowed? 3.1 million a year saved by the Appleton School districts and thousands saved in other school districts simply by dropping WEA Trust Health Ins. How does this happen? We the Wisconsin taxpayer deserve an answer, at least an investigation. Share with other Wisconsin taxpayers so they know the truth - we're sure not getting it from our media.

EXAMPLES OF GOOD STUFF HAPPENING IN WISCONSIN:

Ashland School District - saved $378,000 on health insurance;

Kimberly School District - saved $821,000 by dropping WEA Trust Insurance;

Edgerton School District - dropping WEA Trust, expecting to save at least $500,000;

Baraboo School District - dropping WEA Trust, expecting to save at least $660,000;

Dodgeland School District - dropping WEA Trust, expecting to save $260,000

Elmbrook School District - changing health care provider, savings estimated at $878,000;

Mequon-Thiensville School District - saving $49,000 on dental insurance coverage;

Marshfield School District - saving $850,00 by dropping WEA Trust;

City of Sheboygan - Mayor Bob Ryan says collective bargaining reforms will provide enough savings to make up for the reduction in state aid;

Wauwatosa School District - tax levy decreasing, no programs will be cut, class sizes won't increase, thanks to the reforms in collective bargaining;

Manitowoc - Laid-off city workers may get their jobs back due to the wage/benefit reforms contained in Walker's budget. Changes to overtime rules saving the county $100,000;

Pittsville - will see a 9% decrease in the school portion of their property tax levy. "This is the first year we have not needed to short-term borrow," stated Board President Strenn;

Appleton School District - will save $3.1 million just in health insurance costs due to being able to bid out the coverage and being able to drop WEA Trust;

Racine County - inmates can now be used to perform tasks such as landscaping, painting and shoveling sidewalks. Executive Ladwig states this is a win/win for the inmates and the county. It frees up county employees for other tasks, gives the inmates a sense of value, and helps the county maintain property that has been neglected."

Kaukauna School District - hiring additional teachers, reducing class sizes, enacting a merit pay system, and due to Walker's Budget Bill, Kaukauna's operating budget has moved from a negative $400,000 to a positive $1,500,000. Much of this savings was due to being able to drop WEA Trust.

Hartland School District - switched from WEA Trust and saved $690,000;

Hudson School District - saved $832,000 on health insurance due to ability to bid the insurance.

KSTP did a study of the savings in Sheila Harsdorf's 10th Senate District. They found that Ellsworth, Prescott, Menomonie, Somerset and Hudson school districts are all reporting large savings due to the changes signed into law by Gov. Walker.

Keep in mind, WEA TRUST is Shelly Moore's union insurance company, a company that has obviously been ripping off the school districts for years, thanks to collective bargaining that prohibited school districts from seeking insurance coverage from any company other than WEA Trust.

How much tax money would we have saved if school districts had been "allowed by the unions" to bid out their insurance over the years? I'd say probably many, many, many millions statewide. It's the union money train running off the tracks, finally, and Shelly and her union don't like it.

WANT MORE GOOD NEWS??

Walker signed an Unemployment Insurance extension adding 13 weeks of UC benefits.

Passed a state budget on time, without tax increases, that leaves WI in the black for the first time in over 10 years.

Turned a $3 billion deficit into a $300 million surplus.

Cut bonding by nearly 20%.

Cut more than 1,000 government jobs, including 735 long-term vacancies.

In the first 6 months of 2011 WI showed job growth more than twice the national rate.

Protected our votes by requiring a picture I.D. at the polls.

Became the 49th state to recognize our 2nd Amendment right to carry concealed weapons.

Paid off WI's $60 million debt to MN under the former tax reciprocity agreement.

Paid back over $200 million to the Injured Patients and Families Fund. This is money that Gov. Doyle unconstitutionally raided from the Patients' Compensation Fund.

Walker expanded the prohibition against tax money being used to subsidize abortion.

SO WITH THE WISCONSIN TAXPAYER FINALLY IN CONTROL AND NO MORE HIGH PROPERTY TAX INCREASES EVERY YEAR, WHY ARE THE DEMOCRAT'S RECALLING GOV. WALKER - IS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE AGAINST SUCCESS AND THE VERY PEOPLE WHO PAY THEIR SALARIES, THE WISCONSIN TAXPAYER.

Interesting!!

RK:D

sandyg
12-12-2011, 12:10 PM
Why must you constantly bombard us with facts. Don't you know that we progressives don't care about facts? We only care about anecdotes, innuendo, rumor, scare mongering, hope and change.

LokiMeister
12-12-2011, 02:48 PM
I would be interested in seeing all of the school districts numbers as a whole.

I always thought it interesting when those little old ladies at the voting hall never wanted to see my ID in order to vote. I have to show my ID to buy alcohol, I just had to show my ID at the Post Office to pick up a package. Now why wouldn't I have to show an ID to verify that I am indeed the person I say I am and I am here to vote? To all those people that say well some people don't have ID's. Why not? You are required by law to have an ID on you in public.

Buzz
12-12-2011, 03:43 PM
Please identify the law that requires you to carry an ID.

I have been unable to find it.

How many. Cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in the last say 20 years? It must be a huge problem, all the attention it is getting from the wingers. So the court system must be backed up for years with cases.

Marvin S
12-12-2011, 04:52 PM
Please identify the law that requires you to carry an ID.

I have been unable to find it.

How many. Cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in the last say 20 years? It must be a huge problem, all the attention it is getting from the wingers. So the court system must be backed up for years with cases.

Voter fraud does exist - if you don't think so, check who is POTUS - the biggest fraud of all :p

HPL
12-12-2011, 06:24 PM
Please identify the law that requires you to carry an ID.

I have been unable to find it.

How many. Cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in the last say 20 years? It must be a huge problem, all the attention it is getting from the wingers. So the court system must be backed up for years with cases.
Since valid ID isn't currently required in many cases, just how would you prove fraud?

HPL
12-12-2011, 08:03 PM
I can't say that I am up on all the issues in Wi as I live in Tx. From everything I have read and seen on TV I like Walker, but Tx is a "right to work state" so was raised with a somewhat jaundiced view of unions. However I have a good friend who is a school teacher in Wi., generally conservative, no supporter of the unions, and here was his take on the original post:

If all that is true, then they'll have to explain why the MARSHFIELD school district -- HOME of the Marshfield Clinic and their Security Health Insurance subsidiary -- just DROPPED Security Health Insurance as a carrier and went TO the WEA Trust Insurance coverage to SAVE (read: subtract from the income of their employees) $820,000. Worst part is, our finance person said that the coverage would be comparable. REALLY??? We all slowly saw the math as to HOW the district saved money. It's NOT comparable and is costing me hundreds of extra dollars for "comparable"? coverage for which I am now also paying several hundred dollars EXTRA! I'll repeat it again -- Obama is a socialist narcissist; Walker is a knee-jerk A-hole. He'll be ruining the Department of Nat. Resources before he's done as well. The entire Rep. party has largely gone crazy since the man was elected -- about as crazy as Nancy Pelosi went when she had control. No difference, really. Just nonsensical but in the other direction.

Haven't had a chance to have a real long conversation with him since Walker took over, but perhaps over the Christmas holidays when he is on break.

Hew
12-13-2011, 01:49 AM
Since valid ID isn't currently required in many cases, just how would you prove fraud
Exactly. The notion that because there are few convictions for voter fraud means there is hardly any voter fraud is a left-wing canard:
- as HPL pointed, it is difficult to detect all but the most obvious fraud on voting day because the requirements to vote are lax and the benefit of the doubt is weighted HEAVILY to the person attempting to vote (as it should be).
- it is very difficult to prove intent to fraudulently cast a vote. Most attempts at election day fraud are written off as honest mistakes or ignorance of the law and are not prosecuted.
- When election fraud is discovered after-the-fact, just how do you go about prosecuting a fictitious person or someone who has been dead for 3 years?
- The real election fraud is in voter registration and there have been numerous convictions for egregious fraud on the registration side of the coin. If a fictitious or ineligible voter is registered to vote and sends in a mailed ballot it is highly improbable that that type of fraud would ever be detected. Yet we know that thousands of ineligible/fictitious voters have been registered in vote drives paid for and sponsered by special interest groups.
- Lastly, if there's no voter fraud then why do the likely/presumed beneficiaries of voter fraud (lefty special interst groups) squeel like stuck pigs at every seemingly reasonable effort to detect/prevent fraud? A million + Americans fought and died for our right to vote but it's just too damn burdensome to bring a picture ID to the polls? That's a perversion of common sense.

road kill
12-13-2011, 05:57 AM
I can't say that I am up on all the issues in Wi as I live in Tx. From everything I have read and seen on TV I like Walker, but Tx is a "right to work state" so was raised with a somewhat jaundiced view of unions. However I have a good friend who is a school teacher in Wi., generally conservative, no supporter of the unions, and here was his take on the original post:

If all that is true, then they'll have to explain why the MARSHFIELD school district -- HOME of the Marshfield Clinic and their Security Health Insurance subsidiary -- just DROPPED Security Health Insurance as a carrier and went TO the WEA Trust Insurance coverage to SAVE (read: subtract from the income of their employees) $820,000. Worst part is, our finance person said that the coverage would be comparable. REALLY??? We all slowly saw the math as to HOW the district saved money. It's NOT comparable and is costing me hundreds of extra dollars for "comparable"? coverage for which I am now also paying several hundred dollars EXTRA! I'll repeat it again -- Obama is a socialist narcissist; Walker is a knee-jerk A-hole. He'll be ruining the Department of Nat. Resources before he's done as well. The entire Rep. party has largely gone crazy since the man was elected -- about as crazy as Nancy Pelosi went when she had control. No difference, really. Just nonsensical but in the other direction.

Haven't had a chance to have a real long conversation with him since Walker took over, but perhaps over the Christmas holidays when he is on break.

Why don't you have a long HONEST conversation with your good friend.

WEA Insurance is owned by the teachers union.
Marshfield signed thier contract BEFORE Walkers reforms were ratified, so those teachers are being forced by the union to buy expensive insurance from the insurance company the union owns.

Sweet deal for the union, poor deal for the taxpayer!!!

Do some research and find out why some teachers (not all) are so upset.
For the first time in 40 years, someone said NO!
The nipple has been pulled from thier lips.


BTW--If he is a teacher in the union, he should be questioning the union, not me.


RK

Buzz
12-13-2011, 08:52 AM
Why don't you have a long HONEST conversation with your good friend.

WEA Insurance is owned by the teachers union.
Marshfield signed thier contract BEFORE Walkers reforms were ratified, so those teachers are being forced by the union to buy expensive insurance from the insurance company the union owns.

Sweet deal for the union, poor deal for the taxpayer!!!

Do some research and find out why some teachers (not all) are so upset.
For the first time in 40 years, someone said NO!
The nipple has been pulled from thier lips.


BTW--If he is a teacher in the union, he should be questioning the union, not me.


RK


So what you're saying is that his good friend is a no good teat sucker, taking advantage of the taxpayer, and that now he's just getting what he deserves & should stop complaining.

LokiMeister
12-13-2011, 09:10 AM
I still would be interested in seeing all of the school districts numbers as a whole.

How about it, Stan?

road kill
12-13-2011, 09:32 AM
I still would be interested in seeing all of the school districts numbers as a whole.

How about it, Stan?
Why don't you look it up and show us.
http://www.reforms.wi.gov/

Buzz, it's his union, not mine.......we couldn't save them from themselves.




RK

HPL
12-13-2011, 10:04 AM
Why don't you have a long HONEST conversation with your good friend.

WEA Insurance is owned by the teachers union.
Marshfield signed thier contract BEFORE Walkers reforms were ratified, so those teachers are being forced by the union to buy expensive insurance from the insurance company the union owns.

Sweet deal for the union, poor deal for the taxpayer!!!

Do some research and find out why some teachers (not all) are so upset.
For the first time in 40 years, someone said NO!
The nipple has been pulled from thier lips.


BTW--If he is a teacher in the union, he should be questioning the union, not me.


RK
These days our interaction is in short emails (I don't type fast enough to get too long winded in an email) but perhaps we will actually talk on the phone over the holidays. I don't know if you have to belong to the union to teach in Wi. As I said, I've always lived in Texas and until I was well into my adulthood had never heard of a "closed shop" (the idea of which seems terribly un-American to me). I'll send your info about the contract pre-dating Walker's reforms on to my friend and see what his response is and also see if he has to be a union member to teach. All this is going on in Wi and as I live in Texas, there is only a very tangential effect on me (more intellectual curiosity for me than a real issue), but also as I have said, I think I like what Walker has done. Just wanted to get a Wisconsonian teacher's opinion. In the past he has been very complimentary of the health care they got in Marshfield and he had lived here in Texas while going to graduate school (where we met).

LokiMeister
12-13-2011, 12:24 PM
Why don't you look it up and show us.
http://www.reforms.wi.gov/
RK

I cannot even find the information on that website that you originally quoted. Not to mention there isn't information on ALL the school districts...just a few that they cherry picked.

I am all for saving money and lowering taxes, but this is a politicians website designed to tell only part of the story...as a politician is want to do.

road kill
12-13-2011, 01:09 PM
I cannot even find the information on that website that you originally quoted. Not to mention there isn't information on ALL the school districts...just a few that they cherry picked.

I am all for saving money and lowering taxes, but this is a politicians website designed to tell only part of the story...as a politician is want to do.

The best proof I can offer you is that the media reports nothing about Walkers reforms.

One can only imagine what would be splattered all over the front page of the MSM if the reforms were failing!!!:D



RK

LokiMeister
12-13-2011, 01:25 PM
The best proof I can offer you is that the media reports nothing about Walkers reforms.

One can only imagine what would be splattered all over the front page of the MSM if the reforms were failing!!!:D



RK

Then it shows that you are willing to believe ANYTHING Walker or his cronies will tell you. Me? I have a healthy distrust of ANYTHING the government tells me and am especially wary of incomplete information.

road kill
12-13-2011, 02:30 PM
Then it shows that you are willing to believe ANYTHING Walker or his cronies will tell you. Me? I have a healthy distrust of ANYTHING the government tells me and am especially wary of incomplete information.
All your posts prove is that you will argue with anything I post, NOTHING more.
My information is complete, prove it is not.
It lists the districts and municipalities that used the tools Walker provided.
They have done well.
Why would I list the other fools?
Stop being so obtuse and lazy and look it up yourself.

Walker has balanced the budget, reduced my tax burden in New Berlin,WI (and all the other municipalities that didn't give in to the unions) and avoided state layoffs.

Something your side could NOT do.

Now, why don't you provide someting to support the reforms are not working other than your snide cheap shots........YOU CAN'T!!!!:cool:




RK

LokiMeister
12-13-2011, 02:45 PM
All your posts prove is that you will argue with anything I post, NOTHING more.

Walker has balanced the budget, reduced my tax burden in New Berlin,WI (and all the other municipalities that didn't gave in to the unions) and avoided state layoffs.

Something your side could NOT do.

Now, why don't you provide someting to support the reforms are not working other than you snide scheap shots.

My guess is.......YOU CAN'T!!!!:cool:


RK

OMG, you really are an idiot, aren't you? I just want to see the whole picture and not just my selfish tax burden. I am willing to sacrifice a little now if I know the whole is getting better. Once the whole is better, then everybody wins.

You see, I am not against your position and am not arguing that some school districts are better off, but I know of at least two districts that are worse off, Monona Grove and Stoughton, both Madison "suburbs." Both have to lay off teachers and reduce the quality of education to make up for the reforms that Walker put forth. I know that two districts doesn't compare to the 15-20 that you gave examples of but there are over 200 districts in Wisconsin. I simply want to find out the effect of the rest of the districts. If an overwhelming number of districts are better off and teachers are keeping their jobs then I will know that the reforms are for the better. Until then, I am on the fence, but not on the other side as you like to think.

You should run for office, you'd be great at it. I love your quote, "The best proof I can offer you is that the media reports nothing about Walkers reforms." Just like a politician.

I am done with this thread as you refuse to see or show the whole picture.

road kill
12-13-2011, 02:49 PM
OMG, you really are an idiot, aren't you? I just want to see the whole picture and not just my selfish tax burden. I am willing to sacrifice a little now if I know the whole is getting better. Once the whole is better, then everybody wins.

You see, I am not against your position and am not arguing that some school districts are better off, but I know of at least two districts that are worse off, Monona Grove and Stoughton, both Madison "suburbs." (both signed a contract with the union before Walker's refoems were ratified and YOU know that, so you have just LIED) Both have to lay off teachers and reduce the quality of education to make up for the reforms that Walker put forth. I know that two districts doesn't compare to the 15-20 that you gave examples of but there are over 200 districts in Wisconsin. I simply want to find out the effect of the rest of the districts. If an overwhelming number of districts are better off and teachers are keeping their jobs then I will know that the reforms are for the better. Until then, I am on the fence, but not on the other side as you like to think.

You should run for office, you'd be great at it. I love your quote, "The best proof I can offer you is that the media reports nothing about Walkers reforms." Just like a politician.

I am done with this thread as you refuse to see or show the whole picture.
You look it up, get a 3rd grader to help you!

I am an idiot?
Do some research, you have enough time to call me names, not enough time to support your lame cause??

Pretty lame Kevin, but exactly what I expected.

When ever I use common sense and facts against you lefty's you always resort to name calling!!



Wife: "Honey, what did you do today??"

Kevin: "I lost my temper on the internet and called a guy a name!"

Wife: "I am soooo proud of you!!"

Game, Set & Match, RK:cool:

duk4me
12-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Please identify the law that requires you to carry an ID.

I have been unable to find it.

How many. Cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in the last say 20 years? It must be a huge problem, all the attention it is getting from the wingers. So the court system must be backed up for years with cases.

Haven't read the thread however, the one that allows you to hunt must have license and picture id. Rumor has it Gooser showed his picture id and got arrested for undescribebal exposure.

Once again I contribute nothing regards,

road kill
12-13-2011, 03:16 PM
Haven't read the thread however, the one that allows you to hunt must have license and picture id. Rumor has it Gooser showed his picture id and got arrested for undescribebal exposure.

Once again I contribute nothing regards,

You contribute as much as any of us!!!;-)

RK

Sue Kiefer
12-13-2011, 03:50 PM
I haven't yet since the quality of public education going down.:confused:

WOW that's a pretty big statement to make.
I know that some classes got bigger. Some schools have asked parents to volunteer their "free" time to help.
I did that before Walker was in office.
I say this again...............
People knew what Walker stood for before he was elected into office. Why is it now such a big surprise when he actually is doing what he said that he would.
Maybe it is a surprise as some politicains are all about getting elected than forget what they babbled about while campaigning.
Who knows.
Sue

HPL
12-13-2011, 04:21 PM
I know of at least two districts that are worse off, Monona Grove and Stoughton, both Madison "suburbs." Both have (had) to lay off teachers and reduce the quality of education to make up for the reforms that Walker put forth. I know that two districts doesn't (don't) compare to the 15-20 that you gave examples of but there are over 200 districts in Wisconsin. I simply want to find out the effect of (on) the rest of the districts. If an overwhelming number of districts are better off and teachers are keeping their jobs then I will know that the reforms are for the better. Until then, I am on the fence, but not on the other side as you like to think.


Don't want to get between the two of you but have to say that laying off teachers and increasing class size doesn't automatically mean that the quality of education is damaged. Apparently there are some teachers who are less effective than others and laying them off might actually improve the quality of education. I believe that I have read multiple sources that indicate that there is little to no proof that class size has a direct bearing on the quality of education, so those two points are probably not strong arguments against the effect of walker's program.

Hew
12-13-2011, 05:15 PM
I believe that I have read multiple sources that indicate that there is little to no proof that class size has a direct bearing on the quality of education, .....
Quite right. Intuitively it doesn't make sense, but is true nonetheless.

It does mean teachers have to work a little harder so that might be the reason why classroom size is always harped on by edumacators. ;-)

caryalsobrook
12-13-2011, 05:40 PM
I cannot even find the information on that website that you originally quoted. Not to mention there isn't information on ALL the school districts...just a few that they cherry picked.

I am all for saving money and lowering taxes, but this is a politicians website designed to tell only part of the story...as a politician is want to do.

Loki,

This is not to berate you but let me give you some numbers concerning education. From the Fed. Dept of ED. We spend a little over 7% of GDP on all education, more than any other country. there are a couple of countries that spend more on secondary education than us(Luxomberg and Findland to name 2). Supposedly we rank around 22nd in the world in education. Not a very good record in my opinion.

Now let me give you my personal experience in higher education. I went to Univ. of Tn. Dental school in 1973. I had worked for 5 years for IBM and saved $15,000 and used this money for school. Dental school at tennessee at that time was 3 years with no break in the summer, with only normal holliday breaks. Tuition, fees, equipment, essentioally all expenses at school arn about $2,200 per year. Tuition was a little over $500.00 per semester and equipment was about $400.00. Total cost of dental school for me not including living expenses was around $6,500.00 as a resident student. Today resident dental tuition at Tennessee is $24,442.00 per year. Total cost of dentat school is estimated at $280,000.00. When I got ut of Dental School I charged $145.00 a porcelain crown. When I retired 3 years ago I charged $825.00 a crown. The point I am trying to make is that my fees went up far less than the cost of dentl school. Tuition alone has gone up 2400% in 35 years. For that matter dental applications, the last time I looked are less than half in number of what they were when I applied.

I cannot believe that people who want more funding for education are aware of the numbers, especially with the results we have gotten in public secondary education. I don't know where it is being spent but it sure is being spent somewhere and WITH LITTLE RESULTS.

Something has to be done because we have increased funding for education massively over the years and have actually gotten worse results. Liberals have a solution for any gov. run program that is a failure. JUST INCREASE THE FUNDING!! When they look at the cost of health care, they say just control it by the gov. and the cost will go down.

Actually Wis. did not have collective bargaining before Gov. Walker. What they had was mediation. The gov offered a raise and the unions wante a bigger raise. When no agreement was reached, there was mediation which resulted is splitting the baby, less raise than the unions asked and more than the gov. offered. the result was that THE TAXPAYERS HAD NO SAY IN THE DEAL. As I see it, that is what Walker is trying to stop.

road kill
12-14-2011, 05:34 AM
Loki,

This is not to berate you but let me give you some numbers concerning education. From the Fed. Dept of ED. We spend a little over 7% of GDP on all education, more than any other country. there are a couple of countries that spend more on secondary education than us(Luxomberg and Findland to name 2). Supposedly we rank around 22nd in the world in education. Not a very good record in my opinion.

Now let me give you my personal experience in higher education. I went to Univ. of Tn. Dental school in 1973. I had worked for 5 years for IBM and saved $15,000 and used this money for school. Dental school at tennessee at that time was 3 years with no break in the summer, with only normal holliday breaks. Tuition, fees, equipment, essentioally all expenses at school arn about $2,200 per year. Tuition was a little over $500.00 per semester and equipment was about $400.00. Total cost of dental school for me not including living expenses was around $6,500.00 as a resident student. Today resident dental tuition at Tennessee is $24,442.00 per year. Total cost of dentat school is estimated at $280,000.00. When I got ut of Dental School I charged $145.00 a porcelain crown. When I retired 3 years ago I charged $825.00 a crown. The point I am trying to make is that my fees went up far less than the cost of dentl school. Tuition alone has gone up 2400% in 35 years. For that matter dental applications, the last time I looked are less than half in number of what they were when I applied.

I cannot believe that people who want more funding for education are aware of the numbers, especially with the results we have gotten in public secondary education. I don't know where it is being spent but it sure is being spent somewhere and WITH LITTLE RESULTS.

Something has to be done because we have increased funding for education massively over the years and have actually gotten worse results. Liberals have a solution for any gov. run program that is a failure. JUST INCREASE THE FUNDING!! When they look at the cost of health care, they say just control it by the gov. and the cost will go down.

Actually Wis. did not have collective bargaining before Gov. Walker. What they had was mediation. The gov offered a raise and the unions wante a bigger raise. When no agreement was reached, there was mediation which resulted is splitting the baby, less raise than the unions asked and more than the gov. offered. the result was that THE TAXPAYERS HAD NO SAY IN THE DEAL. As I see it, that is what Walker is trying to stop.
Cary,
Loki's post is BS and he knows it.
The districts that layed off teachers ratified thier unions contracts before Walkers changes were, they did not use the tools Walker gave them.
The unions hustled and pressured these districts to beat Walker.
Madison and Milwaukee most prominent.
(read anything about MIlwaukee Public Schools recently?)
They get the most federal and state aid iun the state, have the highest compensation for teachers.
Google them and see what the results are!


Now those districts have to pay higher contract demands and had to layoff teachers as a result.
The districts that used the tools Walker gave them have hired more teachers, reduced property taxes (mine in New Berlin went down) and things are going smoothly.

Loki knows this.

RK

LokiMeister
12-14-2011, 08:37 AM
Loki,

This is not to berate you but let me give you some numbers concerning education. From the Fed. Dept of ED. We spend a little over 7% of GDP on all education, more than any other country. there are a couple of countries that spend more on secondary education than us(Luxomberg and Findland to name 2). Supposedly we rank around 22nd in the world in education. Not a very good record in my opinion.

Now let me give you my personal experience in higher education. I went to Univ. of Tn. Dental school in 1973. I had worked for 5 years for IBM and saved $15,000 and used this money for school. Dental school at tennessee at that time was 3 years with no break in the summer, with only normal holliday breaks. Tuition, fees, equipment, essentioally all expenses at school arn about $2,200 per year. Tuition was a little over $500.00 per semester and equipment was about $400.00. Total cost of dental school for me not including living expenses was around $6,500.00 as a resident student. Today resident dental tuition at Tennessee is $24,442.00 per year. Total cost of dentat school is estimated at $280,000.00. When I got ut of Dental School I charged $145.00 a porcelain crown. When I retired 3 years ago I charged $825.00 a crown. The point I am trying to make is that my fees went up far less than the cost of dentl school. Tuition alone has gone up 2400% in 35 years. For that matter dental applications, the last time I looked are less than half in number of what they were when I applied.

I cannot believe that people who want more funding for education are aware of the numbers, especially with the results we have gotten in public secondary education. I don't know where it is being spent but it sure is being spent somewhere and WITH LITTLE RESULTS.

Something has to be done because we have increased funding for education massively over the years and have actually gotten worse results. Liberals have a solution for any gov. run program that is a failure. JUST INCREASE THE FUNDING!! When they look at the cost of health care, they say just control it by the gov. and the cost will go down.

Actually Wis. did not have collective bargaining before Gov. Walker. What they had was mediation. The gov offered a raise and the unions wante a bigger raise. When no agreement was reached, there was mediation which resulted is splitting the baby, less raise than the unions asked and more than the gov. offered. the result was that THE TAXPAYERS HAD NO SAY IN THE DEAL. As I see it, that is what Walker is trying to stop.

You guys aren't reading my posts. Point out where I said that I am against Walker's ideas. I simply want to see the whole picture instead of the partial picture that road kill is showing. You notice that he still hasn't provided that information?

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 09:26 AM
You guys aren't reading my posts. Point out where I said that I am against Walker's ideas. I simply want to see the whole picture instead of the partial picture that road kill is showing. You notice that he still hasn't provided that information?

Oh yes, I read your posts. In fact I was about to say that RK has also fallen into the trap of defending the status quo. Both are worried that teachers might be laid off. Well, given the track record of the secondary education system in the US for the last 40 years, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE FIRED!!!

Until Chris Christy became Gov. of NJ, the state spent over $29,000.00 per child PER YEAR for a child in secondary education. that is ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO EDUCATE THREE CHILDREN THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL. Tell that to the parents that are about to have their third child!! As I said, a liberal's solution for a failed gov. program is to spend more money on the gov. program. I don't know the actual numbers over the last 40 years for secondary education and that is why I gave you the numbers for UT Dental School. Those I did know those. We as a country and gov. are rewarding failure and punishing success and the public education system is a clasic example.

road kill
12-14-2011, 09:29 AM
Oh yes, I read your posts. In fact I was about to say that RK has also fallen into the trap of defending the status quo. Both are worried that teachers might be laid off. Well, given the track record of the secondary education system in the US for the last 40 years, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE FIRED!!!

Until Chris Christy became Gov. of NJ, the state spent over $29,000.00 per child PER YEAR for a child in secondary education. that is ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO EDUCATE THREE CHILDREN THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL. Tell that to the parents that are about to have their third child!! As I said, a liberal's solution for a failed gov. program is to spend more money on the gov. program. I don't know the actual numbers over the last 40 years for secondary education and that is why I gave you the numbers for UT Dental School. Those I did know those. We as a country and gov. are rewarding failure and punishing success and the public education system is a clasic example.

Cary,
With all due respect, what the hell are you talking about?
Scott Walker is anything but the status quo.:cool:



RK

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 09:49 AM
Cary,
With all due respect, what the hell are you talking about?
Scott Walker is anything but the status quo.:cool:



RK

Of course he is not, and neither are you.:) The point I was making is that the high cost is only a symptom of the problem. The whole structure of the public education system the the root of the problem. Trying to get control fo costs is a start but we must also get better results in our schools. the only way to do that is to completely change the structure of the public education system and to do that HEADS MUST ROLL!!! I have no doubt that Scott Walker realizes that and I was only reminding you that you don't want to fall into the trap of defending the status quo of protecting teachers who do not produce. I once read a paper that the single most important thing that determined the quality of a secondary school was the quality of the principal. So you might try giving the principal a budget and the ability to hire and fire a teacher(no tenure certainly) and if he fails to produce then fire the principal and start over. Let the new principal keep those he wants to keep and fire those he doesn't want to keep. that is what happens in business. That is what happens to the coach and his staff in athletics, and that is what hapens in the military when a general is fired. History has shown that it works.

sandyg
12-14-2011, 10:25 AM
You guys aren't reading my posts. Point out where I said that I am against Walker's ideas. I simply want to see the whole picture instead of the partial picture that road kill is showing. You notice that he still hasn't provided that information?

If YOU want to see the whole picture, RESEARCH IT YOURSELF!!!

LokiMeister
12-14-2011, 10:46 AM
If YOU want to see the whole picture, RESEARCH IT YOURSELF!!!

Of course I am, but Sandy, this is just the kind of narrow mindedness I am VERY afraid of. You can't and shouldn't make a decision on only half-truths.

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 11:01 AM
Of course I am, but Sandy, this is just the kind of narrow mindedness I am VERY afraid of. You can't and shouldn't make a decision on only half-truths.

That is EXACTLY the point I tried to make. Given the massive expenditures on public secondary educationand the RESULTS we get, how could anyone argue that cutting education expenditures, even if teachers are cut is not theproper thing to do?

As I said, a liberal's solution to a failed gov. program is to spend MORE money on the program. A conservative approach is to CUT spending and either terminate the program or at the very least to restructure it.

sandyg
12-14-2011, 11:04 AM
Of course I am, but Sandy, this is just the kind of narrow mindedness I am VERY afraid of. You can't and shouldn't make a decision on only half-truths.

Ha, ha, that's funny right there! Tell that to EVERYONE who voted for Obama in 2008!

In this case, there's no decision to be made. Walker prevailed, things are working great in WI.


I just saw on the news an excellent example of Quinn's First Law: Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent (http://www.warroom.com/quick_start.php).

Seattle public schools are thinking of backing off their rules on having only healthy items in their vending machines because the kids are avoiding them and walking across the street to the neighborhood stores to get their junk food. The public schools were getting $200,000 a year from vending machine sales to spend on activities and clubs before the food police stepped in. Last year they got $17,000.

J Connolly
12-14-2011, 11:05 AM
Just for everyone's info the average veterinary graduate owes $142,000 while the average starting salary has gone down the last two years. Anyone is insane to take on that mush debt to enter the veterinary profession.

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 11:18 AM
Just for everyone's info the average veterinary graduate owes $142,000 while the average starting salary has gone down the last two years. Anyone is insane to take on that mush debt to enter the veterinary profession.

Do you remember what your tuition, books,fees,ect. were when yo went to vit. school? Have you checked what they are today? Do you remember some of your fee structure when you started practice and what they are today? What are the numbers applying to vet. school today as compared when you went? I guarantee you they are sobering numbers.

As to owing $142,000.00 upon graduation, I talked to a dental graduate who owed $180,000.00 upon graduation. Given the margin of profit, I figured based on the highet tax bracket, he would have to gross about $2,000,000.00 over 20 years JUST to repay the debt. that is figuring $50,000 a year before taxes, for 20 years to repay the debt with interest.

Eric Johnson
12-14-2011, 11:36 AM
How many. Cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in the last say 20 years? It must be a huge problem, all the attention it is getting from the wingers. So the court system must be backed up for years with cases.

Buzz-

How can the legal system allege voter fraud if there's no requirement for identification? No one knows who voted.

Eric

sandyg
12-14-2011, 11:49 AM
$3300 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 1978
$5000 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 1982
$34,400 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 2011

$30,000 My starting salary as a mechanical engineer 1982
$55,000 Average mechanical engineering starting salary 2011
$80,000 Average engineering salary with 30 years experience 2011

6:1 starting salary to annual tuition ratio 1982
1.6:1 starting salary to annual tuition ratio 2011

If I had to do it all over again I would have become an electrician. You work with your hands, every job is a new experience, you use your brain, you meet new people, you're not stuck behind a desk all day, the pay and benefits are the same if not better, you're not going to be outsourced.

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 11:59 AM
$3300 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 1978
$5000 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 1982
$34,400 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 2011

$30,000 My starting salary as a mechanical engineer 1982
$55,000 Average mechanical engineering starting salary 2011
$80,000 Average engineering salary with 30 years experience 2011

6:1 starting salary to annual tuition ratio 1982
1.6:1 starting salary to annual tuition ratio 2011

If I had to do it all over again I would have become an electrician. You work with your hands, every job is a new experience, you use your brain, you meet new people, you're not stuck behind a desk all day, the pay and benefits are the same if not better, you're not going to be outsourced.

We just haven't figure it out. Surely the numbers lie!!:rolleyes: (just for those who are unsure, (JUST A JOKE!)

IowaBayDog
12-14-2011, 12:03 PM
$3300 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 1978
$5000 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 1982
$34,400 Illinois Institute of Technology tuition and fees 2011

$30,000 My starting salary as a mechanical engineer 1982
$55,000 Average mechanical engineering starting salary 2011
$80,000 Average engineering salary with 30 years experience 2011

6:1 starting salary to annual tuition ratio 1982
1.6:1 starting salary to annual tuition ratio 2011

If I had to do it all over again I would have become an electrician. You work with your hands, every job is a new experience, you use your brain, you meet new people, you're not stuck behind a desk all day, the pay and benefits are the same if not better, you're not going to be outsourced.


Your 2011 starting salary doesn't seem too far off, but if you're at $80k with 30 years experience, you're in the wrong place or doing it wrong. Principle Engineers at our company are easily into six digits.

Franco
12-14-2011, 12:22 PM
Buzz-

How can the legal system allege voter fraud if there's no requirement for identification? No one knows who voted.

Eric

Showing proof of citizenship for voting must be a state issue. In Louisiana, I have to produce a Driver's License/legal ID in order to vote and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Cody Covey
12-14-2011, 01:20 PM
Come on Franco we all know requiring people to show ID's is racists /sarcasm

Franco
12-14-2011, 01:42 PM
Speaking of unions, my candidate for President thinks that Labor Unions/National Labor Board, especially Public Empolyee Unions are unConstituional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiLhe5-tmOQ

What about y'all's candidates?

road kill
12-14-2011, 02:15 PM
Speaking of unions, my candidate for President thinks that Labor Unions/National Labor Board, especially Public Empolyee Unions are unConstituional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiLhe5-tmOQ

What about y'all's candidates?

Who is my candidate?


RK

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 02:24 PM
Speaking of unions, my candidate for President thinks that Labor Unions/National Labor Board, especially Public Empolyee Unions are unConstituional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiLhe5-tmOQ

What about y'all's candidates?
I'm not sure how he would argue that unions are unconstitutional. actually I don't care about unions especially in the private sector if you just got the government's nose out of it. In other words do away with the NLRB and all the bargaining laws ect. Then let the states set theeir own rules.

Got to tell a story about a frriend of mine here, really funny. I have a friend who worked for Bridgestone-Firestone for 34 years as a member of the Internation Steeelworkers Union. You would have to be an idiot to believe that a union rep. could represent the interests of both the steelworkers and the rubber workers at the same time. Jack wasn't into the poltics of the union. He just went to work on time, worked ovetime when asked and really never caused a problem for the union or company. He is and was as steady and predictable as the time of day. Upon retirement, the union gave him a beautiful plaque as acknowledgement of years of service to both the company and union. When he got home with it, his wife looked at the back of the plaque and what did it Say??? MADE IN CHINA!!!!

Every time I see a union add on tv saying to buy america and union made, I have to laugh. Go figure.:p

Franco
12-14-2011, 02:27 PM
Who is my candidate?


RK

I didn't realize that you are the only poster on RTF! If you aren't supporting a candidate, then the question is not directed at you. That is unless you are hoping for Cain to resurface.

Franco
12-14-2011, 02:34 PM
I'm not sure how he would argue that unions are unconstitutional. actually I don't care about unions especially in the private sector if you just got the government's nose out of it. In other words do away with the NLRB and all the bargaining laws ect. Then let the states set theeir own rules.

Got to tell a story about a frriend of mine here, really funny. I have a friend who worked for Bridgestone-Firestone for 34 years as a member of the Internation Steeelworkers Union. You would have to be an idiot to believe that a union rep. could represent the interests of both the steelworkers and the rubber workers at the same time. Jack wasn't into the poltics of the union. He just went to work on time, worked ovetime when asked and really never caused a problem for the union or company. He is and was as steady and predictable as the time of day. Upon retirement, the union gave him a beautiful plaque as acknowledgement of years of service to both the company and union. When he got home with it, his wife looked at the back of the plaque and what did it Say??? MADE IN CHINA!!!!

Every time I see a union add on tv saying to buy america and union made, I have to laugh. Go figure.:p

The way I see it is; we either return to a Free Market/Capitalist system or we continue with artificial labor cost and loss of jobs overseas. As RP pointed out, Texas has greatly benefitted by being a Right To Work state. So has Louisiana.

road kill
12-14-2011, 02:37 PM
I didn't realize that you are the only poster on RTF! If you aren't supporting a candidate, then the question is not directed at you. That is unless you are hoping for Cain to resurface.
Franco,
I stated from the get go that I knew he would not get nominated but that I liked him.
I still do.


C'mon, I thought you were better than that??

When you said "y'all," you meant everyone but me?
Or were you assuming some smarmy all knowing position.


RK

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 02:56 PM
The way I see it is; we either return to a Free Market/Capitalist system or we continue with artificial labor cost and loss of jobs overseas. As RP pointed out, Texas has greatly benefitted by being a Right To Work state. So has Louisiana.

You hit the nail on the head. but you don't need to outlaw unions. Closed shop states vs right to work states. No Fed Gov. interference. Then we can see which states prosper and which states stagnate and destroy or ship out jobs. Don't need no fed goberment to give us the answer, just need competition.

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 02:58 PM
PS. Thought you would like my little story. Even the unions want competition when they are the consumer.

HPL
12-14-2011, 03:20 PM
You hit the nail on the head. but you don't need to outlaw unions. Closed shop states vs right to work states. No Fed Gov. interference. Then we can see which states prosper and which states stagnate and destroy or ship out jobs. Don't need no fed goberment to give us the answer, just need competition.
As a NATIVE Texan, I would prefer that the states that keep losing jobs to Texas would get their acts together so we would not have so many outsiders moving in here crowding our schools and highways, taking over prized hunting areas, and generally trying to tell us what is wrong with the way we do things. Texans have a reputation for being hospitable and we do our best to accommodate VISITORS, but my position is come visit us, behave, obey the rules, and when your visit is done, GO HOME! We're getting way too crowded.

Franco
12-14-2011, 03:35 PM
Franco,
I stated from the get go that I knew he would not get nominated but that I liked him.
I still do.


C'mon, I thought you were better than that??

When you said "y'all," you meant everyone but me?
Or were you assuming some smarmy all knowing position.


RK

When I said, "y'all", it was for those that have already selected who they would support, which many have already declared on POTUS Place.

Then again, keeping up with the other candidates like I do, I have yet to hear or read of one that would like to eliminate the National Labor Board.

road kill
12-14-2011, 03:47 PM
When I said, "y'all", it was for those that have already selected who they would support, which many have already declared on POTUS Place.

Then again, keeping up with the other candidates like I do, I have yet to hear or read of one that would like to eliminate the National Labor Board.
Well, this is tough for me to say due to your zealotry, but RP is consistant.
He is a savant on the economics, a little shaky for me on domestic and foreign affairs.

Hey Buzz, since you are so well versed on all things Wisconsin, perhaps you could explain exactly why Walker is getting recalled?

Thanks buddy.........:D


RK

Franco
12-14-2011, 04:03 PM
P S

I've been keeping up on a daily basis with what is going on with the recall.

This is an extremely important battleground for all America! If being correct is mighty, then this should do in all public sector unions as well as to expose many of the unions for the thugs and leaches they truely are !

FREE THE MARKET AND LET CAPITALISM REIGN!~This includes state governments too.

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 04:07 PM
As a NATIVE Texan, I would prefer that the states that keep losing jobs to Texas would get their acts together so we would not have so many outsiders moving in here crowding our schools and highways, taking over prized hunting areas, and generally trying to tell us what is wrong with the way we do things. Texans have a reputation for being hospitable and we do our best to accommodate VISITORS, but my position is come visit us, behave, obey the rules, and when your visit is done, GO HOME! We're getting way too crowded.
Comes with the territory. The only way to teach em is to show em. Don't wory, after they leave what they aare going through, I will bet they will be grateful for the opportunity to prosper and accept your culture and ways. If not then there is always the pink slip.;)

Franco
12-14-2011, 06:07 PM
Comes with the territory. The only way to teach em is to show em. Don't wory, after they leave what they aare going through, I will bet they will be grateful for the opportunity to prosper and accept your culture and ways. If not then there is always the pink slip.;)

Hell, I was on the Texas boarder a few days ago at the Le Barge Casino in Lake Chuck, La. and there was nothin' but Texans and Texicans. They come, spend and lose a lot of cash and go back home.;-) Perfect!

caryalsobrook
12-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Hell, I was on the Texas boarder a few days ago at the Le Barge Casino in Lake Chuck, La. and there was nothin' but Texans and Texicans. They come, spend and lose a lot of cash and go back home.;-) Perfect!

Alright, alright. No sarcasm between neighbors. I like you both. Texas has Lake Fork an Lousiana has LSU and the Saints. Not only that but Bill Autry who allowed me to train with him last Jan. and FEB. not a nicer man will you ever meet. I have visited both states and return because I like it here as a home. Come up sometime and stay as long as you want as I am sure both would be an asset no matter where you live.:)

Uncle Bill
12-15-2011, 02:16 PM
From someone wiser than me concerning Wisconsin and it's travails.

UB







Downward Wisconsin



We used to make things here in Wisconsin.



We made machine tools in Milwaukee, cars in Kenosha and ships in Sheboygan. We mined iron in the north and lead in the south. We made cheese, we made brats, we made beer, and we even made napkins to clean up what we spilled. And we made money.



The original war on poverty was a private, mercenary affair. Men like Harnishfeger, Allis, Chalmers, Kohler, Kearney, Trecker, Modine, Case, Mead, Falk, Allen, Bradley, Cutler, Hammer, Bucyrus, Harley, Davidson, Pabst, and Miller lifted millions up from subsistence living to middle class comfort. They did it - not “Fighting Bob” La Follette or any of the politicians who came along later to take the credit and rake a piece of the action through the steepest progressive scheme in the nation.



Those old geezers with the beards cured poverty by putting people to work. Generations of Wisconsinites learned trades and mastered them in the factories, breweries, mills, foundries, and shipyards those capitalists built with their hands. Thousands of small businesses supplied these industrial giants, and tens of thousands of proprietors and professionals provided all of the services that all those other families needed to live well. The wealth got spread around plenty.



The profits generated by our great industrialists funded charities, the arts, education, libraries, museums, parks, and community development associations. Taxes on their profits, property, and payrolls built our schools, roads, bridges, and the safety net that Wisconsin’s progressives are still taking credit for, as if the money came from their council meetings. The offering plates in churches of every denomination were filled with money left over from company paychecks that were made possible because a few bold young men risked it all and got rich.






Their wealth pales in comparison to the wealth they created for millions and millions of other Wisconsin families. Those with an appreciation for the immeasurable contributions of Wisconsin’s industrial icons of 1910 will find the list of Wisconsin’s top ten employers of 2010 appalling:



Walmart, University of Wisconsin–Madison, Milwaukee Public Schools, U.S. Postal Service, Wisconsin Department of Corrections, Menards, Marshfield Clinic, Aurora Health Care, City of Milwaukee, and Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs.



This is what a century of progressivism will get you. Wisconsin is the birthplace of the progressive movement, the home of the Socialist Party, the first state to allow public sector unions, the cradle of environmental activism, a liberal fortress walled off against common sense for decades. Their motto, Forward Wisconsin, should be changed to Downward Wisconsin if truth in advertising applies to slogans.



There is no shortage of activists, advocates, and agitators in this State. If government were the answer to our problems, we would have no problems. The very same people – or people just like them – who picketed, struck, sued, taxed, and regulated our great companies out of this state are now complaining about the unemployment and poverty that they have brought upon themselves. They got rid of those old rich white guys and replaced them with…nothing.



Wisconsin ranks 47th in the rate of new business formation. We are one of the worst states for native college graduate exodus; our brightest and most ambitions graduates leave to seek their fortunes elsewhere. Why shouldn’t they? Our tax rates are among the worst in the nation and our business climate, perpetually in the bottom of the rankings, has only recently moved up thanks to a Governor who now faces a recall for his trouble.



In 1970, the new environmental movement joined unions and socialists in a coordinated effort to demonize industry. When I was in college, the ranting against “polluting profiteers” was like white noise – always there. They won, and here is the price of their victory: in 1970, manufacturers paid 18.2% of Wisconsin’s property taxes – the major source of school funding - and in 2010 those who remained paid 3.7%.



So who is it that caused the funding crisis in our schools and the skyrocketing tax rates on our homes? It is the same ignoramuses who are sitting on bridges, pooping on things, and passing around recall petitions. The unemployed 26-year old in the hemp hat looking for sympathy might look instead for some inspiration from Jerome I. Case, who started his agricultural equipment business at the age of 21, miraculously without an iPhone 4s.



Mr. Case got rich by asking people what they want and making it for them. He did not get rich by telling people what he wanted and waiting for them to do something about it. If you want to declare war on your own poverty, memorize that.



In the last decade alone we have lost 150,000 manufacturing jobs in this state – over 25%. And it’s not just jobs that have been lost; the companies that provided them are gone. Those jobs are not coming back, no matter how long we extend unemployment benefits pretending they are. The 450,000 people who still work in manufacturing in Wisconsin are damn good it at, but we are now outnumbered by people who work for government. A significant number of the latter are tasked with taxing, regulating, and generally harassing the former. While it is true that many manufacturers chased low-wage opportunities on their own, many more were driven out of the state by the increasing cost of doing business here.



It is a myth that unions improve wages. If you consider only the 1,000 jobs in a closed shop, you might think an average union wage is, say, $30/hr. But if you add in the zero wages of the 10,000 jobs lost in companies chased out by union harassment, the average of all 11,000 union workers is reduced to $2.72/hr. Do you know the average wage of union iron miners in this state? Zero. And the left is fighting hard to keep it that way in Northern Wisconsin - looking out for the working man, they call it.



It is also a myth that free trade causes job losses. Over the past three years, U.S. manufacturers sold $70 billion more goods to our Free Trade Agreement (FTA) partners than we bought from them. Conversely, we suffered a $1.3 trillion trade deficit with countries where no FTA’s exist. I doubt that kids are going to learn that in our government-union monopoly schools – it doesn’t fit the narrative.



No one wants to see another person suffer in poverty, and liberty is the best economic policy there is. The great industrialists of Wisconsin took less than a generation to lift millions up to a life of dignity, pride, prosperity and good will. When enterprise was free and government was limited, we all prospered.



Those great men of industry were not anointed at birth to be rich; they rose from nothing to great wealth through their own hard work and the value they added to their employees and their customers through choice, competition, and voluntary exchange. That is the only sure path to real prosperity; the debt economy is a temporary illusion.



Look again at the list of our famous industrialists and the list of our current employers. Who would you wish your child or grandchild to grow up to be? Who do you think will do more good on this earth – Jerome I Case and his tractors, or the Coordinator of Supplier Diversity at MPS.



If you chose MPS, then apply now – that job is open, and it pays up to $72,000 plus benefits and early retirement. Go in peace and save the world. Me, I'm going with the tractor guy.




Moment Of Clarity” is a weekly commentary by Libertarian writer and speaker Tim Nerenz, Ph.D.


Visit Tim’s website www.timnerenz.com (http://www.timnerenz.com/) to find your moment.

LokiMeister
12-15-2011, 03:30 PM
I think I just became a fan...

And why doesn't a guy like Tim Nerenz run for office? Because if he looked at someone, sometime in his life, what could be construed as "not right," the Main Stream Media would flush them out to tell their half truths and he would have to bow out in disgrace.

Know nothing about Mr. Nerenz, regards.

caryalsobrook
12-15-2011, 06:32 PM
"When enterprise was free and Government was limited, we all prospered."

Tim Ninmenz(not sure of sepelling)

He could have added, "some more that others and THAT is what the progressives san't stand".

road kill
12-22-2011, 02:42 PM
http://maciverinstitute.com/


RK

LokiMeister
12-22-2011, 04:57 PM
http://maciverinstitute.com/


RK

Nothing on this website updates any info that started this thread.

road kill
12-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Nothing on this website updates any info that started this thread.

Pretty sad you can't even look around.
Maybe you should get a 5th grader to help you work your puter!:cool:

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/09/mi-report-chronicles-success-of-wisconsin-budget-reforms/

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Act10Report2.pdf

A blind person could find what you claim you can't.
I think you have to try to not find the results.
A citizen of WI, and you have no clue whats going on in your backyard.
You need someone else to do all the work for you.

FRIGHTENING!!!



RK

Gerry Clinchy
12-22-2011, 08:03 PM
Showing proof of citizenship for voting must be a state issue. In Louisiana, I have to produce a Driver's License/legal ID in order to vote and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Here in PA the poll workers have books with voter's names at the voting site. You then sign the book. Your signature from previous voting is also there. So you don't have to show your ID (you did that to register), but the signatures offer some validation.

Also, we are in a suburban area where a lot of the poll-workers get to know a lot of the people who come through from one election to the next.

Not the same as in a big city environment.

BonMallari
12-22-2011, 08:06 PM
Here in NV they have early voting at a couple of the shopping malls. You have to produce your DL or similar ID in order to vote

LokiMeister
12-23-2011, 09:41 AM
Pretty sad you can't even look around.
Maybe you should get a 5th grader to help you work your puter!:cool:

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/09/mi-report-chronicles-success-of-wisconsin-budget-reforms/

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Act10Report2.pdf

A blind person could find what you claim you can't.
I think you have to try to not find the results.
A citizen of WI, and you have no clue whats going on in your backyard.
You need someone else to do all the work for you.

FRIGHTENING!!!



RK

See Stan. That wasn't so hard was it? I don't have time to look around a website that much, I am a busy man. Besides, I have you, my flunky. All my other flunkies are on my payroll!!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gerry Clinchy
12-23-2011, 10:48 AM
Better get Walker to take a look at the new dog legislation ... which Eric Johnson posted on the main forum.

road kill
12-23-2011, 03:46 PM
See Stan. That wasn't so hard was it? I don't have time to look around a website that much, I am a busy man. Besides, I have you, my flunky. All my other flunkies are on my payroll!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe you, and I'm sure they would all be pleased to read you said that about them..........



RK

BonMallari
12-23-2011, 06:01 PM
and in today's news the administration blocked Soth Carolina's, voter ID law...looks like they will go to any means necessary to insure re election

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/23/us-usa-politics-southcarolina-idUSTRE7BM1MI20111223

charly_t
12-23-2011, 06:02 PM
Better get Walker to take a look at the new dog legislation ... which Eric Johnson posted on the main forum.

Do not be fooled by these new laws that say they are just out to shut down the bad breeders and the puppy mills. Most of them have had input from animal rights people and organizations and they don't want anyone "using" animals in any way. Get ready for crack downs on every breeder in the future. It may take a while but it is coming.

allydeer
01-03-2012, 10:29 AM
thank you walker i got laid off so i sign up for unemployment today only to find out that as of jan 1 2012 that when you sign up for unemployment you dont get paid any unemployment for your first week that you claim. so thank you walker

LokiMeister
01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
thank you walker i got laid off so i sign up for unemployment today only to find out that as of jan 1 2012 that when you sign up for unemployment you dont get paid any unemployment for your first week that you claim. so thank you walker

I am sorry you were laid off, good luck in finding a new job.

Actually, you should thank Wisconsin Independent Business Group. They lobbied for the change. This now goes back to the way it was in 2001(?). The unemployment fund is so mismanaged they have to borrow from the Feds to make ends meet. Oh, before I forget, businesses in Wisconsin have to pay an assessment to pay the interest until the bill is paid off, hopefully in 2014. Way to keep business out of Wisconsin if you ask me.

ErinsEdge
01-03-2012, 02:50 PM
thank you walker i got laid off so i sign up for unemployment today only to find out that as of jan 1 2012 that when you sign up for unemployment you dont get paid any unemployment for your first week that you claim. so thank you walker
I'm sorry you lost your job but that rule was around way before Walker was here. Maybe it was changed and now it went back or maybe it's just the one week rule only once instead of multiple times if you were laid off multiple times.

LokiMeister
01-03-2012, 03:07 PM
I'm sorry you lost your job but that rule was around way before Walker was here. Maybe it was changed and now it went back or maybe it's just the one week rule only once instead of multiple times if you were laid off multiple times.

As I said in my previous post, prior to 2002, you didn't get paid for the first week of unemployment. The powers that be at that time decided to go from the first week you would get unemployment. We are know at the same level of service as prior to 2001.

road kill
01-03-2012, 03:10 PM
As I said in my previous post, prior to 2002, you didn't get paid for the first week of unemployment. The powers that be at that time decided to go from the first week you would get unemployment. We are know at the same level of service as prior to 2001.

Clearly that is Governor Walkers fault!!!:rolleyes:



RK

allydeer
01-03-2012, 03:22 PM
even before 2002 you didn't have a week that you didn't get unc. you always got it for the week you sign up for. he change this in june 2011 so it would be his fault its into affect until2014 he said it will save 45mill.

road kill
01-03-2012, 03:30 PM
even before 2002 you didn't have a week that you didn't get unc. you always got it for the week you sign up for. he change this in june 2011 so it would be his fault its into affect until2014 he said it will save 45mill.

Well then, you better sign a few recall petitions!!!


RK

starjack
01-03-2012, 03:52 PM
All tho i agree with Walker on a lot of things This UEC thing is not one of them. Can somebody please explain to me how this helps somebody who has gotten laid off threw no fault of there own. Can someone explain how this is going to save 45 mil.

If just wis. UEC can save 45mil mabey the feds should all first ss checks.

allydeer
01-03-2012, 04:01 PM
just got a call from my union rep and going back to work on Monday. still doesn't seem right that a person that gets laid off should be punished for collecting unc. even tho its just a week may be he and the other rep and dem should give one week of pay back to the system same should be for people getting S S give back a week.

IowaBayDog
01-03-2012, 04:17 PM
All tho i agree with Walker on a lot of things This UEC thing is not one of them. Can somebody please explain to me how this helps somebody who has gotten laid off threw no fault of there own. Can someone explain how this is going to save 45 mil.

If just wis. UEC can save 45mil mabey the feds should all first ss checks.


It was implemented to keep people from gaming the system by laying off workers for only one week at a time if work was a little slow, during deer season, during shutdowns etc..

A mill or has a one week planned shutdown and workers were collecting unemployment instead of using vacation or getting paid by the company. MANY companies were/are giving voluntary layoffs during deer season, workers loved it, got all of deer season off and got paid too. Now they have to eat one full week. Makes it a little tough to swallow. Unemployment insurance was intended for those who lose their jobs, not as a secondary vacation mechanism.

IowaBayDog
01-03-2012, 04:19 PM
just got a call from my union rep and going back to work on Monday. still doesn't seem right that a person that gets laid off should be punished for collecting unc. even tho its just a week may be he and the other rep and dem should give one week of pay back to the system same should be for people getting S S give back a week.


Why doesn't your Union pay you for that week?? What are you paying dues for? They can afford to give out millions to politicians and Occupy protestors but can't pay you?

allydeer
01-03-2012, 04:43 PM
i dont get vac or pay holidays may be some unions are different

LokiMeister
01-03-2012, 07:00 PM
Clearly that is Governor Walkers fault!!!:rolleyes:



RK

Actually, I think he signed off on it and I am glad he did. Why should I pay for some loser that thinks he can do whatever at his job just so he gets fired and doesn't have to work for six months. I had an employee that told me he estimates he has been paid by the state for five years due to his "incompetence."

LokiMeister
01-03-2012, 07:02 PM
One of the most important things to go along with this change is the fact that the liberal (!) administrative law judges have to actually consider the case before they just award it to the former (read: fired) employee. I have been in one of these situations where the employee won, just by showing up at the hearing. Afterall, I was the big bad employer with all the money.

ErinsEdge
01-03-2012, 07:48 PM
even before 2002 you didn't have a week that you didn't get unc. you always got it for the week you sign up for. he change this in june 2011 so it would be his fault its into affect until2014 he said it will save 45mill.Loki is correct.

IowaBayDog
01-03-2012, 07:53 PM
i dont get vac or pay holidays may be some unions are different


Why are you in a Union, they obviously aren't doing much for you.

Nor_Cal_Angler
01-03-2012, 08:02 PM
thank you walker i got laid off so i sign up for unemployment today only to find out that as of jan 1 2012 that when you sign up for unemployment you dont get paid any unemployment for your first week that you claim. so thank you walker
That sucks but it's the same in CA...you get laid off and you do not collect in most cases for a week or TWO...paperwork must be filed and the state must review to ensure you were laid off or terminated for cause. It's a FRAUD thing.


All tho i agree with Walker on a lot of things This UEC thing is not one of them. Can somebody please explain to me how this helps somebody who has gotten laid off threw no fault of there own. Can someone explain how this is going to save 45 mil.

If just wis. UEC can save 45mil mabey the feds should all first ss checks.

FRAUD....


just got a call from my union rep and going back to work on Monday. still doesn't seem right that a person that gets laid off should be punished for collecting unc. even tho its just a week may be he and the other rep and dem should give one week of pay back to the system same should be for people getting S S give back a week.

It isn't so much about punishment...it is to prevent people from as stated before filing claims knowing they are laid off all the while being promissed to return to work.


It was implemented to keep people from gaming the system by laying off workers for only one week at a time if work was a little slow, during deer season, during shutdowns etc..

A mill or has a one week planned shutdown and workers were collecting unemployment instead of using vacation or getting paid by the company. MANY companies were/are giving voluntary layoffs during deer season, workers loved it, got all of deer season off and got paid too. Now they have to eat one full week. Makes it a little tough to swallow. Unemployment insurance was intended for those who lose their jobs, not as a secondary vacation mechanism.

BINGO!!!!!!!!

In CA it is the same way...often times it take longer to recieve your first payment....

As well, most of the time when you are laid off..you recieve your last week's pay or two if your bi-weekly, plus any time worked in between pay periods..

I know when I got laid off 8 years ago...I recievced my last two weeks pay (bi-weekly pay, paid in the rear) plus I was laid off mid pay period and recieve a week plus 3 days...total check was MUCH MUCH MUCH larger than a standard pay period...

It was enough to cover all my bills plus normal spending (which was reduced knowing I was laid off) for the last half of the month and first week of the next....my unemployment kicked in the first week of the month and I actually was ahead for a bit....

I was lucky or (determined) and got a job with in 6 weeks of being laid off and stoped UEB...after only 4 weeks of collecting.

If most people have the same pay system (which I think most do) then you should have no problem covering the gap (If you can't then you have a mismaagement of money issue)....so what are we really bitching about.

Jake

allydeer
01-03-2012, 08:19 PM
here you go my employer does not hold a check when you start. layoff is payoff and the lady i talk to today told me this started Jan 2012 that walker put it in in June i have ben layoff in the late 90's never had to do this. talk to alot of people today and they never had to over the years so if you could show me diff of the law i would appreciate that far as the lady at unemployment it is the first time this has happened there are something i agree with walker but not this one

charly_t
01-03-2012, 10:43 PM
just got a call from my union rep and going back to work on Monday. still doesn't seem right that a person that gets laid off should be punished for collecting unc. even tho its just a week may be he and the other rep and dem should give one week of pay back to the system same should be for people getting S S give back a week.

Uuummm. You know if you check up on it I think you will find that the government pay for S.S. is not given on the first month that it should be given anymore, plus, if I die mid Jan. 2012 my husband has to give back ( government deducts it from our checking account automaticially ) all of my Jan. 2012 check. But if it will cure our economy problems they can have one week of my S.S.