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Franco
12-23-2011, 11:27 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7383377/overlook-brees-nfl-mvp

So, which players most deserves the MVP award for 2011?

I'll add to the article that in 2009, Brees threw TD passes to 19 or 20 different receivers and still lost to Peyton Manning though the Colts lost to the Saints and SB44 MVP Brees.

I personally think it should not be awared until after the playoffs, every season.

BonMallari
12-23-2011, 11:34 AM
I would have to give the award to Aaron Rodgers, Brees a close second.....but in reality the player most valuable to his team is Peyton Manning, without him the Colts look like an expansion team

twall
12-23-2011, 12:22 PM
Tebow!














Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The Bears sure are missing Cutler and Forte.

Tom

Franco
12-23-2011, 02:40 PM
I would have to give the award to Aaron Rodgers, Brees a close second.....but in reality the player most valuable to his team is Peyton Manning, without him the Colts look like an expansion team

Colts may have been headed for an 8 - 8 season even with Manning. They are not the same team as when Dungy was there.

mngundog
12-24-2011, 01:08 AM
As of today I would say Rodgers is just edging out Brees, I believe the playoffs should have nothing to do with deciding MVP.

subroc
12-26-2011, 04:10 PM
Aaron Rodgers will win it. Drew Brees and Tom Brady will get first place votes.

Marvin S
12-26-2011, 08:53 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7383377/overlook-brees-nfl-mvp

So, which players most deserves the MVP award for 2011?

I'll add to the article that in 2009, Brees threw TD passes to 19 or 20 different receivers and still lost to Peyton Manning though the Colts lost to the Saints and SB44 MVP Brees.

I personally think it should not be awared until after the playoffs, every season.

I'm not an expert like you on sports but I believe your fascination with Brees is a little like your RP thing. He was the best QB at SD but I personally believe he would be second rate if he had a coach like Mike Ditka, for example. He will break Marino's record - how many games did they play in 1984?

There are a lot of MVP's in the league as evidenced by some teams mediocrity when key players go down. I wouldn't want a vote knowing that I may have bypassed someone more deserving :).

Franco
12-27-2011, 08:40 AM
I'm not an expert like you on sports but I believe your fascination with Brees is a little like your RP thing. He was the best QB at SD but I personally believe he would be second rate if he had a coach like Mike Ditka, for example. He will break Marino's record - how many games did they play in 1984?

There are a lot of MVP's in the league as evidenced by some teams mediocrity when key players go down. I wouldn't want a vote knowing that I may have bypassed someone more deserving :).


Marino did it in 16 games, Brees in 15 games. Brady is 127 yards behind Brees this season and I don't expect Brees to play much more then a quarter next week.

Listening to ESPN and NFL Network after the game, there was no mention of the Saints rushing for 164 yards last night and one of the top running teams. Unlike last season when the Saints were down to their 8th string RB for the post season, currently all the horses are healthy! ;-)

road kill
12-27-2011, 08:47 AM
Marino did it in 16 games, Brees in 15 games. Brady is 127 yards behind Brees this season and I don't expect Brees to play much more then a quarter next week.

Listening to ESPN and NFL Network after the game, there was no mention of the Saints rushing for 164 yards last night and one of the top running teams. Unlike last season when the Saints were down to their 8th string RB for the post season, currently all the horses are healthy! ;-)

Bring them all up north, where we play football on grass outside like God intended, let's see what y'all got!!!:cool:


RK

duk4me
12-27-2011, 09:05 AM
Bring them all up north, where we play football on grass outside like God intended, let's see what y'all got!!!:cool:


RK

Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.:p

PS God is only concerned with Tebow Tebow Tebow.......

road kill
12-27-2011, 09:27 AM
Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.:p

PS God is only concerned with Tebow Tebow Tebow.......

Bring it!!!!


RK

BonMallari
12-27-2011, 09:35 AM
Comparing Marino to Brees or vice versa takes some of the luster off when you realize that Tom Brady will more than likely break the 5K yd plateau in passing stats next week...Rodgers also has a passer rating of 122.5 compared to Brees at 108.4

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2011/seasontype/2

road kill
12-27-2011, 09:58 AM
Comparing Marino to Brees or vice versa takes some of the luster off when you realize that Tom Brady will more than likely break the 5K yd plateau in passing stats next week...Rodgers also has a passer rating of 122.5 compared to Brees at 108.4

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2011/seasontype/2

45 TD's with only 6 int's.
122.5 QB rating
9.25 yards per catch
14-1 record

Why is Rodgers even in the conversation?


Clearly this is between Brees & Brady.

RK

Franco
12-27-2011, 10:15 AM
Brees will probably beat his NFL Passer Percentage record he set in 09 as he is currently close to 71%!

Brees would be the first one to say that records and awards are secondary to winning the the whole enchalada.

Like 09, I can see where the Saints win it all and beating the MVP selected QB along the way, though I think Brees has a good shot at winning it this season.

No team is playing better down the stretch than Brees'. If the Saints get pass the Wildcard round, beat the 49ers at Candlestick, I don't think there is a team that can beat them. Not with that power running game and the most accurate QB in league history pulling the trigger!

What about the high probability that the Giants and Eli travel to GB in the Divisional round? Giants, like the Saints save their best for the tougher teams.

Anything can happen and there is still a lot of Football to be played!

road kill
12-27-2011, 10:22 AM
Brees will probably beat his NFL Passer Percentage record he set in 09 as he is currently close to 71%!

Brees would be the first one to say that records and awards are secondary to winning the the whole enchalada.

Like 09, I can see where the Saints win it all and beating the MVP selected QB along the way, though I think Brees has a good shot at winning it this season.

No team is playing better down the stretch than Brees'. If the Saints get pass the Wildcard round, beat the 49ers at Candlestick, I don't think there is a team that can beat them. Not with that power running game and the most accurate QB in league history pulling the trigger!

What about the high probability that the Giants and Eli travel to GB in the Divisional round? Giants, like the Saints save their best for the tougher teams.

Anything can happen and there is still a lot of Football to be played!

If in one hand.............:rolleyes:


IF the Saints make it to Lambeau, I think the Packers will be ready.

Did the Saints and Packers play earlier this year???:D

The Saints are a very good football team, no doubt.
But I would be careful dismissing the Packers at Lambeau.
May not be the gimmee you think..........



RK

Franco
12-27-2011, 10:29 AM
If in one hand.............:rolleyes:


IF the Saints make it to Lambeau, I think the Packers will be ready.

Did the Saints and Packers play earlier this year???:D



RK

Yes they did and the game was decided on the last play of the game!;-) And, I certainly don't think that if they paly it would be a gimme.

Remember, the Pack came out smoking hot in the first quarter but, in the final three quarters of that game the Saints outscroed the Packers 28 to 17. Also, the Packers fortune goes the way of Rodgers. Though I said here on RTF before the season that Rodgers is the league's current best QB, if he is not having a good game, the Packers have zero running game to help them out. And, their secondary can be thrown on.

Two good teams and lots of speculation by fans!

Now, back to the ESPN College Football Boards where LSU and Bama fans are taunting one another in a supreme trash-talking marathon!:cool:

road kill
12-28-2011, 05:42 AM
Does anyone know who the starting QB is for the NFC in the Pro-Bowl??


Just askin'..........

RK

Lucky Number Seven
12-28-2011, 07:20 AM
Does anyone know who the starting QB is for the NFC in the Pro-Bowl??


Just askin'..........

RK

BOOM!!! :cool:

Along with 6 others to make 7 players from Green Bay to be picked for the Pro Bowl, 4 being starters.

Franco
01-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Brees played 3 quarters today, threw for 380 plus yards and 5 TD's! Saints ran the ball for over 200 yards as well.

He led the Saints to the all time Most Yards in a Season by an Offense in the NFL!
Saints set an NFL record for most points scored is a season!
He set the NFL record for most consecutive 300 yard games!
Set the NFL record for Completion percentage braking his own record set in 09!
Set NFL record for most 1st downs!
Set NFL record for 3rd Down conversions!
Set NFL record for most games with at least 20 completions!
Only four Games behind Johnny Unitas for consecutive games with a TD pass!
Topped Marino's record for passing yards in 15 games!

helped Darrin Sproles to the alltime most all purpose yards in the NFL and last I checked, Jimmy Graham set the all time yardage mark by a Tight End topping Kellin Winslow's record!

duk4me
01-01-2012, 04:07 PM
Brees played 3 quarters today, threw for 380 plus yards and 5 TD's! Saints ran the ball for over 200 yards as well.

He led the Saints to the all time Most Yards in a Season by an Offense in the NFL!
Saints set an NFL record for most points scored is a season!
He set the NFL record for most consecutive 300 yard games!
Set the NFL record for Completion percentage braking his own record set in 09!
Set NFL record for most 1st downs!
Set NFL record for 3rd Down conversions!
Set NFL record for most games with at least 20 completions!
Only four Games behind Johnny Unitas for consecutive games with a TD pass!
Topped Marino's record for passing yards in 15 games!

helped Darrin Sproles to the alltime most all purpose yards in the NFL and last I checked, Jimmy Graham set the all time yardage mark by a Tight End topping Kellin Winslow's record!

It's amazing that Brees is so dang lucky everything seems to go his way.

Note to Jerry Jones Dumbarse you could have had the coach and the quarterback......oh yeah Brees and Payton are just so lucky.....

BonMallari
01-01-2012, 04:09 PM
Brees played 3 quarters today, threw for 380 plus yards and 5 TD's! Saints ran the ball for over 200 yards as well.

He led the Saints to the all time Most Yards in a Season by an Offense in the NFL!
Saints set an NFL record for most points scored is a season!
He set the NFL record for most consecutive 300 yard games!
Set the NFL record for Completion percentage braking his own record set in 09!
Set NFL record for most 1st downs!
Set NFL record for 3rd Down conversions!
Set NFL record for most games with at least 20 completions!
Only four Games behind Johnny Unitas for consecutive games with a TD pass!
Topped Marino's record for passing yards in 15 games!

helped Darrin Sproles to the alltime most all purpose yards in the NFL and last I checked, Jimmy Graham set the all time yardage mark by a Tight End topping Kellin Winslow's record!

in most years those stats alone would be enough to to easily win the MVP award...but when you have an Aaron Rodgers who has led his team to 21 of 22 games with a win including a SB victory, its going to be hard to unseat him the current top QB...don't know if the voting has already taken place or if it done like the Pro Bowl selections, but it will probably be the closest of all time, and whoever wins it will be deserving and will congratulate the runner up because both are class individuals

duk4me
01-01-2012, 04:25 PM
in most years those stats alone would be enough to to easily win the MVP award...but when you have an Aaron Rodgers who has led his team to 21 of 22 games with a win including a SB victory, its going to be hard to unseat him the current top QB...don't know if the voting has already taken place or if it done like the Pro Bowl selections, but it will probably be the closest of all time, and whoever wins it will be deserving and will congratulate the runner up because both are class individuals

Good post except one thing. Last year don't count.;-) The big three are incredible but they all benefit from the rule changes. still the windows those guys put the balls through are unbelieveable

road kill
01-01-2012, 04:32 PM
Brees played 3 quarters today, threw for 380 plus yards and 5 TD's! Saints ran the ball for over 200 yards as well.

He led the Saints to the all time Most Yards in a Season by an Offense in the NFL!
Saints set an NFL record for most points scored is a season!
He set the NFL record for most consecutive 300 yard games!
Set the NFL record for Completion percentage braking his own record set in 09!
Set NFL record for most 1st downs!
Set NFL record for 3rd Down conversions!
Set NFL record for most games with at least 20 completions!
Only four Games behind Johnny Unitas for consecutive games with a TD pass!
Topped Marino's record for passing yards in 15 games!

helped Darrin Sproles to the alltime most all purpose yards in the NFL and last I checked, Jimmy Graham set the all time yardage mark by a Tight End topping Kellin Winslow's record!

All that fabulous, unbelievable, super human stuff will get him 2nd or 3rd place in the MVP voting!!:D




RK

starjack
01-01-2012, 06:37 PM
Brees played 3 quarters today, threw for 380 plus yards and 5 TD's! Saints ran the ball for over 200 yards as well.

He led the Saints to the all time Most Yards in a Season by an Offense in the NFL!
Saints set an NFL record for most points scored is a season!
He set the NFL record for most consecutive 300 yard games!
Set the NFL record for Completion percentage braking his own record set in 09!
Set NFL record for most 1st downs!
Set NFL record for 3rd Down conversions!
Set NFL record for most games with at least 20 completions!
Only four Games behind Johnny Unitas for consecutive games with a TD pass!
Topped Marino's record for passing yards in 15 games!

helped Darrin Sproles to the alltime most all purpose yards in the NFL and last I checked, Jimmy Graham set the all time yardage mark by a Tight End topping Kellin Winslow's record!So if brees goes down and rodgers go down . Then the pack has whats his name Matt Flynn:p:p:p

mngundog
01-01-2012, 07:40 PM
Going into this week I thought Rodgers was the MVP by a slight margin, watching what Green Bay did with Rodgers on the sidelines firmly changed my opinion. Brees is the MVP.

Franco
01-01-2012, 08:44 PM
In 09 when Manning won MVP, Brees had a higher QB rating. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. P Manning had that 15 - 1 regular season and the Saints were 13 - 3. We all know what that 15 - 1 record got them in the SB.

Matt Flynn, good QB. Followed him all through college;-) Wonder which team he'll be playing for next season since his contract is up and I'm sure he wants to start. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a Broncos or Dophins uniform. Oh, and the Saints have a running game.:-P

Here you go Bon:
Not so fast, counters Boomer Esiason (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Boomer+Esiason), one of 50 voters on a nationwide panel of media members. Days before Brees smashed Dan Marino's 27-year-old record for single-season passing yardage, the CBS analyst and former MVP quarterback said: "It's really close right now, but it is Drew Brees' award to lose."

MNgundog, I don't see how Brees doesn't get the award. What he has accomplished is beyond great!

BonMallari
01-02-2012, 06:31 AM
Dan Marino's passing record(for yardage) was better by both Brees and Tom Brady, and almost bettered by a third in Stafford

road kill
01-02-2012, 06:53 AM
Dan Marino's passing record(for yardage) was better by both Brees and Tom Brady, and almost bettered by a third in Stafford

Using mngundog's logic, the record is tainted.

I mean if Rodgers is out of consideration becuase Flynn had a great game, then conversely Brees is out becuase Brady & Stafford had great seasons!!!:D


See what I'm sayin'.........

RK

mngundog
01-02-2012, 11:03 AM
Using mngundog's logic, the record is tainted.

I mean if Rodgers is out of consideration becuase Flynn had a great game, then conversely Brees is out becuase Brady & Stafford had great seasons!!!:D


See what I'm sayin'.........

RK
Didn't say he was out of consideration, just said that I thought that game put Brees in the lead. I had said previous lead I had them neck and neck there stats are both impressive. Flynn got put in against a quality opponent and did a great job with that offense, did he not? I don't think a backup could be inserted into the Saints offense with similar results.

road kill
01-02-2012, 11:18 AM
Didn't say he was out of consideration, just said that I thought that game put Brees in the lead. I had said previous lead I had them neck and neck there stats are both impressive. Flynn got put in against a quality opponent and did a great job with that offense, did he not? I don't think a backup could be inserted into the Saints offense with similar results.

In all honesty, that was the second most fun Packer game I ever saw.

The expectations were low and the results were fun to watch.


The most fun Packer game ever??
A Monday night game between the Redskins and the Packers.

It's a whole new season now, the playoffs (called vacation in Chicago and MN) and it appears (based on what I read here) its the Saints SB trophy.:rolleyes:


Should be easy for the Saints really.

I mean the have Detroit at home (a turf team BTW) and then on to that chump team San Fran (outdoors on grass) and then the Packers probably shouldn't even show up at Lambeau, on turf and freakin' cold!!!


Who knows, since Flynn is hot, maybe they should just play him!!~!!:shock:

Looks like a cakewalk for the Saints to me.
I know Clay Matthews is afraid.;-)

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww46/Rataccess/cmIIIvII.png



RK

M&K's Retrievers
01-02-2012, 11:19 AM
My vote would go to Brees but barely.

Franco
01-02-2012, 11:28 AM
In all honesty, that was the second most fun Packer game I ever saw.

The expectations were low and the results were fun to watch.


The most fun Packer game ever??
A Monday night game between the Redskins and the Packers.

It's a whole new season now, the playoffs (called vacation in Chicago and MN) and it appears (based on what I read here) its the Saints SB trophy.:rolleyes:


Should be easy for the Saints really.

I mean the have Detroit at home (a turf team BTW) and then on to that chump team San Fran (outdoors on grass) and then the Packers probably shouldn't even show up at Lambeau, on turf and freakin' cold!!!


Who knows, since Flynn is hot, maybe they should just play him!!~!!:shock:

Looks like a cakewalk for the Saints to me.
I know Clay Matthews is afraid.;-)





RK

Y'all are going to have to beat the Eli and the Giants first. No easy task;-)

And, the 49ers look very tough. I wouldn't downplay their D.

road kill
01-02-2012, 11:30 AM
Y'all are going to have to beat the Eli and the Giants first. No easy task;-)

And, the 49ers look very tough. I wouldn't downplay their D.
I think I would rather take my chances against the Giants than Detroit and San FRan.

But that's just me, what do I know???????:confused:



RK

Franco
01-02-2012, 11:37 AM
I think I would rather take my chances against the Giants than Detroit and San FRan.

But that's just me, what do I know???????:confused:



RK

I'd rather play the Giants at thier stadium then play at Candlestick.
with all that January wind.

The Fort Worth Kid, crowned Ceasar of Loosiana;-)

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww167/gumboyaya_2009/brees-mardigras.jpg

road kill
01-02-2012, 11:38 AM
From Peter King;


Peter King summed it up nicely today:

Interesting, but not surprising. After the last week, I expected Brees to win the popular vote, in part because of his greatness this year, and in part of what Bill Barnwell wrote about on Grantland.com recently. He called it "recency,'' as in "what have you done for me lately?'' Brees, in the last seven games, is 7-0 with 25 touchdowns and three interceptions; he has set NFL records for passing yards in a season (5,476) and completion percentage (71.2). In the last three weeks, Rodgers has lost to Kansas City, beaten Chicago with a five-touchdown night, and sat (coach's decision) against the Lions.

Amazing that sitting Sunday would do so much to affect the race. Or might do so much to affect the race. As @joshbickford wrote with his vote for Brees: "Matt Flynn changes my vote to Drew Brees.''

In other words, the sick performance by Flynn in relief of the resting Rodgers could well have the effect of leaking votes from Rodgers and giving them to Brees. If a rusty backup like Flynn can throw for 480 yards with six touchdowns piloting the Green Bay offense, doesn't that diminish what Rodgers has been able to do all season?

"That shouldn't be the case at all,'' Flynn told me after his shredding of the Lions. He seemed upset to think it might be. "The numbers today were just because we went back and forth all day. Nothing I did today should do anything to diminish what Aaron's done. He's the MVP, for sure, for what he's done from the start of the season.''

Let me weigh in on just that topic ...
***
The MVP dilemma. Brees made it a horse race, and more than that. In the end, early this morning, I struggled with what to do with my vote, one of 50 for the annual Associated Press NFL awards and All-Pro team. I could go Brees, or I could go Rodgers, or I could, as I've done before, split my vote half and half. I thought a lot about doing that, and I can see why some voters might do that. Unlike baseball, the football MVP is done by voting for first place. Not first, second and third, or more than that. Just one vote. So that was a consideration in a very tight race.

Brees has had, arguably, the greatest statistical offensive season a quarterback has ever had, with the most passing yards, the best accuracy, and the fourth-most touchdowns in a season (46). Rodgers set the NFL mark for passer rating, became the first passer to have 12 straight games with a rating over 105, led the Packers to the best record in the league, and had the best passing season the Packers have ever seen -- which is saying something, considering their Hall of Fame heritage (Arnie Herber, Bart Starr and soon Brett Favre).

Sometime after 5 this morning, I finalized my call. I decided not to split the vote, because I thought it would be a cop out. I felt I had to make a decision. And I picked Rodgers. Four reasons:

1. I thought Rodgers was better for the full season. Rodgers was 14-1, Brees 13-3. So much can go into wins and losses, and each man did more than any on his team to lead to those wins. But in the two midseason losses that ultimately cost the Saints the second seed in the playoffs, Brees was less than perfect, and it hurt his team. In a six-point loss to Tampa Bay in Week 6, Brees threw one interception late in the first half that Josh Freeman turned into a touchdown three plays later. Late in the fourth quarter, down six, Brees threw an interception in the end zone. Two weeks later, New Orleans went to St. Louis and lost by 10 to A.J. Feeley and the Rams. Brees threw one interception that was returned for a touchdown, and the other was turned into a touchdown pass by Feeley. In Rodgers' first 12 weeks of the season, he ground up every opponent with remarkable efficiency, throwing 37 touchdowns with just five interceptions ... almost the same way Brees played at the end of the season. In the last eight games, Brees was as brilliant as Rodgers was for the first 12. The Saints were 8-0, and he threw 27 touchdowns with four interceptions, and was a paragon of accuracy. But those two losses to, as it turned out, 4-12 and 2-14 teams, with Brees mistakes a factor, weighed on my decision. In the end, it was like watching two almost perfect skaters, and one lands the quad and one has a perfect program except for double-footing the landing on one jump.

2. Brees had five multiple-interception games, Rodgers none. Not decisive, but a factor. I also thought the TD-to-interception differential (plus-39 for Rodgers, plus-32 for Brees) and the yards per attempt (9.25 to 8.33, in Rodgers' favor) was a factor.

3. I wanted to respect statistics but not be overwhelmed by them. I have tremendous respect for Brees the team player, and I couldn't care less that he was throwing the ball up 22 with three minutes to play against Atlanta. All he's doing is executing the plays that are called. But I don't want numbers, some of which are exacerbated in blowouts like the 62-7 rout of the Colts (Brees) and 45-7 rout of the Vikings (Rodgers), to affect the vote unduly, particularly since Brees threw 155 more passes than Rodgers.

4. Rodgers won the head-to-head matchup. Again, not overwhelming. But a brick in the wall.
As for the Flynn performance, I think it could be evidence that it's the system and the supporting cast as much as the player that makes the quarterback in Green Bay. But how much stock do you put in one game? Is it anecdotal or absolutely proof? I think it's more of the former, but I just don't think we have enough proof. How do we know that if Chase Daniel, Brees' backup, started against the Panthers Sunday with all that talent around him in the passing game, and with a superb play-caller in Sean Payton who knows what Daniel does well and what he doesn't, that he wouldn't have thrown for 330 and four touchdowns? We don't.
One of the things that bothers me about not voting for Brees is that I think, overall, he's been the best quarterback in football over the last six years, with a phenomenal record of achievement. And he hasn't won an MVP. I sincerely hope he does before he retires, and if he wins it this year, I won't be bothered at all, because Brees has been a great difference-maker this year. I just think Rodgers has been a little better for the full season.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated...index.html#ixzz1iJsgQJdU

RK

Franco
01-02-2012, 12:05 PM
My responce to Peter King in red;

Peter King summed it up nicely today:

Interesting, but not surprising. After the last week, I expected Brees to win the popular vote, in part because of his greatness this year, and in part of what Bill Barnwell wrote about on Grantland.com recently. He called it "recency,'' as in "what have you done for me lately?'' Brees, in the last seven games, is 7-0 with 25 touchdowns and three interceptions; he has set NFL records for passing yards in a season (5,476) and completion percentage (71.2). In the last three weeks, Rodgers has lost to Kansas City, beaten Chicago with a five-touchdown night, and sat (coach's decision) against the Lions.

Amazing that sitting Sunday would do so much to affect the race. Or might do so much to affect the race. As @joshbickford wrote with his vote for Brees: "Matt Flynn changes my vote to Drew Brees.''

In other words, the sick performance by Flynn in relief of the resting Rodgers could well have the effect of leaking votes from Rodgers and giving them to Brees. If a rusty backup like Flynn can throw for 480 yards with six touchdowns piloting the Green Bay offense, doesn't that diminish what Rodgers has been able to do all season?
No.
"That shouldn't be the case at all,'' Flynn told me after his shredding of the Lions. He seemed upset to think it might be. "The numbers today were just because we went back and forth all day. Nothing I did today should do anything to diminish what Aaron's done. He's the MVP, for sure, for what he's done from the start of the season.''

Let me weigh in on just that topic ...
***
The MVP dilemma. Brees made it a horse race, and more than that. In the end, early this morning, I struggled with what to do with my vote, one of 50 for the annual Associated Press NFL awards and All-Pro team. I could go Brees, or I could go Rodgers, or I could, as I've done before, split my vote half and half. I thought a lot about doing that, and I can see why some voters might do that. Unlike baseball, the football MVP is done by voting for first place. Not first, second and third, or more than that. Just one vote. So that was a consideration in a very tight race.

Brees has had, arguably, the greatest statistical offensive season a quarterback has ever had, with the most passing yards, the best accuracy, and the fourth-most touchdowns in a season (46). Rodgers set the NFL mark for passer rating, became the first passer to have 12 straight games with a rating over 105, led the Packers to the best record in the league, and had the best passing season the Packers have ever seen -- which is saying something, considering their Hall of Fame heritage (Arnie Herber, Bart Starr and soon Brett Favre).

Sometime after 5 this morning, I finalized my call. I decided not to split the vote, because I thought it would be a cop out. I felt I had to make a decision. And I picked Rodgers. Four reasons:

1. I thought Rodgers was better for the full season. Rodgers was 14-1, Brees 13-3. It's a team game. So much can go into wins and losses, and each man did more than any on his team to lead to those wins. But in the two midseason losses that ultimately cost the Saints the second seed in the playoffs, Brees was less than perfect, and it hurt his team. In a six-point loss to Tampa Bay in Week 6, Brees threw one interception late in the first half that Josh Freeman turned into a touchdown three plays later. One interception came on a tipped ball and the other came on a bad call by the ref on a roughing the passer call keeping the Bucs drive alive. The Saints D player hit the QB with his shoulder and not his helmet! Late in the fourth quarter, down six, Brees threw an interception in the end zone. Two weeks later, New Orleans went to St. Louis and lost by 10 to A.J. Feeley and the Rams. No team would have beaten the Rams that weekend. Not with the new WS Champs in attendence. Brees was also sacked 5 times, our O line played poorly that game. Brees threw one interception that was returned for a touchdown, and the other was turned into a touchdown pass by Feeley. In Rodgers' first 12 weeks of the season, he ground up every opponent with remarkable efficiency, throwing 37 touchdowns with just five interceptions ... almost the same way Brees played at the end of the season. In the last eight games, Brees was as brilliant as Rodgers was for the first 12. The Saints were 8-0, and he threw 27 touchdowns with four interceptions, and was a paragon of accuracy. But those two losses to, as it turned out, 4-12 and 2-14 teams, with Brees mistakes a factor, weighed on my decision. In the end, it was like watching two almost perfect skaters, and one lands the quad and one has a perfect program except for double-footing the landing on one jump.

2. Brees had five multiple-interception games, Rodgers none. Not decisive, but a factor. I also thought the TD-to-interception differential (plus-39 for Rodgers, plus-32 for Brees) and the yards per attempt (9.25 to 8.33, in Rodgers' favor) was a factor. Interceptions are not always the fault of the QB!

3. I wanted to respect statistics but not be overwhelmed by them. I have tremendous respect for Brees the team player, and I couldn't care less that he was throwing the ball up 22 with three minutes to play against Atlanta. All he's doing is executing the plays that are called. But I don't want numbers, some of which are exacerbated in blowouts like the 62-7 rout of the Colts (Brees) and 45-7 rout of the Vikings (Rodgers), to affect the vote unduly, particularly since Brees threw 155 more passes than Rodgers.

4. Rodgers won the head-to-head matchup. Again, not overwhelming. But a brick in the wall.
As for the Flynn performance, I think it could be evidence that it's the system and the supporting cast as much as the player that makes the quarterback in Green Bay. But how much stock do you put in one game? Is it anecdotal or absolutely proof? I think it's more of the former, but I just don't think we have enough proof. How do we know that if Chase Daniel, Brees' backup, started against the Panthers Sunday with all that talent around him in the passing game, and with a superb play-caller in Sean Payton who knows what Daniel does well and what he doesn't, that he wouldn't have thrown for 330 and four touchdowns? Chase Daniels is not a good QB. Daniels being on the Saints squad is a mystery to fans. I'd swap Daniels for Flynn seven days a week.
One of the things that bothers me about not voting for Brees is that I think, overall, he's been the best quarterback in football over the last six years, (yes, he is and no QB has done more in the last 6 seasons)with a phenomenal record of achievement. And he hasn't won an MVP. I sincerely hope he does before he retires, and if he wins it this year, I won't be bothered at all, because Brees has been a great difference-maker this year. I just think Rodgers has been a little better for the full season. Still a lot of Football to be played!

I remember in 1979 when we had a split MVP. Archie Manning split it with someone, I don't remember who. It diminished the award for both.

Lucky Number Seven
01-02-2012, 06:39 PM
January 22nd will end all this talk (if both teams make it that far) whatever the MVP vote ends up being.

Packers beat the Rams, Falcons, Buccaneers and Saints this season. Not to mention the Giants on the road and the Lions twice. They have beat all the teams that the Saints lost to plus 4 out of the other 5 teams in the NFC playoffs (didn't play the 49ers.....yet).

Who knows it maybe another split MVP vote like Sanders and Favre 1997 (o yeah another Packer).

Perennial powerhouses regards

Lucky Number Seven
01-02-2012, 06:44 PM
Y'all are going to have to beat the Eli and the Giants first. No easy task;-)

And, the 49ers look very tough. I wouldn't downplay their D.

Been there....done that.....will do it again...this time at the hollowed grounds of LAMBEAU FIELD

BonMallari
01-02-2012, 07:11 PM
since the Niners are the number 2 seed in the NFC, would the Saints play the Niners in the semis or would they play the Packers

cakaiser
01-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Packers will only play Saints in NFC title game. Not before.

road kill
01-03-2012, 03:40 PM
BTW---I am sort of hoping San Fran goes to the SB.

If Green Bay goes, it reeks of disaster.

Green Bays biggest weakness on defense is covering TE's.

If New England goes to the SB Gronkowski and Hernandez would each have 250 yards recieving!!

I don't think I could bare to see it.:shock:


Good luck to Detroit!!

RK

Franco
01-03-2012, 03:46 PM
BTW---I am sort of hoping San Fran goes to the SB.

If Green Bay goes, it reeks of disaster.

Green Bays biggest weakness on defense is covering TE's.

If New England goes to the SB Gronkowski and Hernandez would each have 250 yards recieving!!

I don't think I could bare to see it.:shock:


Good luck to Detroit!!

RK

Sick! Reminds me of Islamic terrorist who hate the Isreali's more than they love thier children.

Personally, I want to see the Saints play at Lambeau at the end of the month.

road kill
01-03-2012, 03:54 PM
Sick! Reminds me of Islamic terrorist who hate the Isreali's more than they love thier children.

Personally, I want to see the Saints play at Lambeau at the end of the month.
Nice!

Franco, it's football, it has nothing to do with war or killing.
I have actually done both (only college football), prefer football over war.

Rooting for the North Division Detroit Liuons!!!

RK

Franco
01-03-2012, 04:10 PM
Nice!

Franco, it's football, it has nothing to do with war or killing.
I have actually done both (only college football), prefer football over war.

Rooting for the North Division Detroit Liuons!!!

RK

In your post you wrote that you are hoping for the 49ers to go to the SB!

Last I checked, they are in the West.

road kill
01-03-2012, 04:47 PM
In your post you wrote that you are hoping for the 49ers to go to the SB!

Last I checked, they are in the West.

Yes I did, you are brilliant!!
You're right, that is just exactly like war and killing!!!:rolleyes:


I predict Detroit will beat the Saints in the WC round (just like Seattle did last year.
Then San Fran will beat Detroit and come to GB.

Atlanta will likely lose to the G-Men, and the Giants will visit GB for a loss.

San Fran & GB in the NFC title game.:D


RK

road kill
01-06-2012, 12:59 PM
This just in;


Aaron Rodgers easily edged Drew Brees to be the Associated Press' first-team All-Pro quarterback, winning by a 47 1/2 to 2 1/2-vote margin.

Lions WR Calvin Johnson and Vikings RE Jared Allen were the top vote getters, each coming within one vote of being unanimous All-Pros. The Rodgers vs. Brees voting could provide a hint as to the AP's leanings for NFL MVP. Patrick Peterson was the only rookie voted All-Pro, making it as a returner. LeSean McCoy and Maurice Jones-Drew were the first-team running backs, Rob Gronkowski the tight end, and Wes Welker was the wideout opposite Megatron.


Just tryin' to help.............


RK

IowaBayDog
01-06-2012, 04:20 PM
This just in;



Just tryin' to help.............


RK

I almost hope Brees gets it so Rodgers has a little fire in his belly for the Superbowl MVP instead :razz:

BonMallari
01-06-2012, 04:30 PM
I actually think it will be co MVP's this year...dont think the NFL wants any part of a public relations controversy this year

starjack
01-08-2012, 06:48 AM
Well Lions better luck next year:p Maybe you can get the most dirtiest team for 2012-2013. You were the hands down winner this year.

road kill
01-08-2012, 07:51 AM
I actually think it will be co MVP's this year...dont think the NFL wants any part of a public relations controversy this year

I don't.

1 MVP, and we know who it is........personal records don't make MVP's, team success does.


RK

road kill
02-05-2012, 05:09 AM
I guess the DEBATE is OVER!!!!


Wasn't even close!!!:cool:

RK

Franco
02-05-2012, 08:06 AM
As much as I would have liked my guy Drew Brees to win League MVP, congrats to Rodgers.

MVP is nice but nothing compared to being the Super Bowl MVP for fans.

Go Eli, win another!

starjack
02-05-2012, 10:13 AM
Franco i might not agree with you on everything But imust say you are pure class when it comes to football WIN LOSE OR DRAW.

Franco
02-05-2012, 12:26 PM
Franco i might not agree with you on everything But imust say you are pure class when it comes to football WIN LOSE OR DRAW.

Thanks.

I really felt that the Packers and Saints were the best two teams in the NFL this season. The Packers saved their worse game of the season for the playoffs and the Saints got beat by a miracle finish on the road.

The Giants have demonstrated that it is how you do on the road in the playoffs that really matters. That the regular season is about getting to the playoffs, no matter which seed, like the Packers did in the 2010 season.

I think the Giants will win big today and Eli should prove once and for all that there is a new sheriff in town.;-)

Franco
02-05-2012, 09:07 PM
Makes me sick to know we beat the Giants 49 to 24 at the end of November and stopped throwing the ball halfway through the 4th quarter!:mad:

huntinman
02-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Makes me sick to know we beat the Giants 49 to 24 at the end of November and stopped throwing the ball halfway through the 4th quarter!:mad:

You gotta perform when it counts... not just talk about it. Everything else is just excuses.