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Shane Olean
01-12-2012, 05:43 PM
Although I don't support what allegedly took place (we've seen the pictures) I'm at wits end with these idiots trying to publicly hunt down the Marines that did this.

From Clinton on down - they all claim there will be an in-depth investigation and prosecution - let the Corps take care of it on their own - they know who they are...

We don't want to portray this to the world but calling the Afghan president & apologizing etc - nah I don't think so..

I got an idea - You start first - dragging dead brothers through the streets - beheading & dis-em-bowling (sp?) over the past 10 years - how about you produce those that committed those crimes then we'll talk about our marines...

bite me

argh...

dback
01-12-2012, 07:11 PM
Need to decorate em.......when they arrived on scene, someone had lit the corpses on fire and they were using Marine resourcefulness to extinguish the flames.

charly_t
01-12-2012, 07:32 PM
Although I don't support what allegedly took place (we've seen the pictures) I'm at wits end with these idiots trying to publicly hunt down the Marines that did this.

From Clinton on down - they all claim there will be an in-depth investigation and prosecution - let the Corps take care of it on their own - they know who they are...

We don't want to portray this to the world but calling the Afghan president & apologizing etc - nah I don't think so..

I got an idea - You start first - dragging dead brothers through the streets - beheading & dis-em-bowling (sp?) over the past 10 years - how about you produce those that committed those crimes then we'll talk about our marines...

bite me

argh...

Yes, that's pretty much what I thought also.

BonMallari
01-12-2012, 07:40 PM
how I feel about this subject publicly and privately are two different things..I have no doubt the Marine Corps will conduct a thorough investigation and those that broke the UCMJ will be dealt with accordingly....

road kill
01-12-2012, 07:45 PM
Thank you to the Marines Corps for covering my ASS!!!

SEMPER FI!!!


Nuff said.......


RK


BTW---maybe if they had NOT done this, the Taliban would like us more, huh???

HPL
01-12-2012, 09:41 PM
Big Deal. Sort of reminds me of the group in Vietnam that put the Ace of Spades on their enemy KIA. Personally I think that we should issue all troops in combat zones over there a large vile of pig blood to sprinkle on every enemy KIA they can find. Seems to me that our KIA and even just captured soldiers have been pretty severely desecrated by the Arabs. I'll be on a military base tomorrow shooting a job and can hardly wait to see what the fellows there think about this.

zeus3925
01-12-2012, 10:34 PM
Urinating on the enemy's corpses goes back at least as far as the old Roman army. Nothing would make those German tribesmen more furious.

Nor_Cal_Angler
01-13-2012, 12:12 PM
how I feel about this subject publicly and privately are two different things..I have no doubt the Marine Corps will conduct a thorough investigation and those that broke the UCMJ will be dealt with accordingly....

Bon you and I agree more often than not...

But this one I disagree with you at least in your principle statment...

What you feel about this should be the SAME publicly and privately....

To me this is what is wrong with the core of America....we have become a nation of public v private....If you have the courage to say it in private...have the courage to say it in public, wear it like a bagde and stand up for it...wrong or right.

I don't say anything in private I wouldn't say in public....of course I curse in public and can't on these boards...and thats different.

Now about those Marines pissing on those ENEMY KIA SOB'S.....I could care less...They are dead and our Marines are alive...that's all that matters to me...how they died, when they died, where they died and what happened after there dead are all afterthoughts in my book....

"Good guys win, Bad guys loose and as always AMERICA prevails!!!"

V for Vendetta regards,

Jake

road kill
01-13-2012, 01:15 PM
Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'
1:37 PM, Jan 13, 2012 • By DANIEL HALPERSingle Page
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.



“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”
This guy gets it.

Just out of curiosity, how many here have "walked the walk???"


RK

Hew
01-13-2012, 01:17 PM
I care only to the extent that it perhaps makes the troops' job harder to do over there because the natives are more riled up. Beyond that....boo hoo. When the people of Aghanistan collectively gnash their teeth about 3,000 vaporized Americans, whose collective remains take up as much space as those 4 pissed-upon Taliban, then I'll give one half of one hoot. Until then...

charly_t
01-13-2012, 03:12 PM
This guy gets it.

Just out of curiosity, how many here have "walked the walk???"


RK

Have not walked the walk but Uncles came back from WW2 and they could not stand to talk about things they saw that happened to other American soldiers. And I sure as blue blazes can read. It was and is something beyond us when we have not been there and done that. I am truely sorry for those who "don't get it".........they have a flaw in their mind etc. Will I ever feel the same things that our soldiers feel when they have been to war. Nope but when you see the young men and women come back to the USA as broken human beings it should tell us all something. God help those who can't understand that.

BonMallari
01-13-2012, 03:28 PM
What you feel about this should be the SAME publicly and privately....




Jake

There are many instance in real life where you have to curb your feelings, because they have consequences.....this is an internet forum, if I expressed my real feelings for subjects and or people, I would not be on the board for very long, sometimes its best to bite your tongue and fight the fights you can win, and sometimes you have to walk away..

I grew up in a military family, I know all about the atrocities of war, read about them in my dad's memoirs, and remember the bone chilling recounts from mom, grandma, and even my oldest siblings....but as my dad taught me,civilians have very little to no idea about war....the US has always had a bad habit of asking the military to do the dirty work and kill the enemy and then turn around and prosecute them for doing their job

IowaBayDog
01-13-2012, 03:55 PM
I hope they were well hydrated so they could do a thorough job of it!!

Can't believe there is even an issue with it. If you think that is deplorable you need to pick up a few books written by folks that were there, Lone Survivor is a good start, there are many others.

charly_t
01-13-2012, 04:00 PM
.................................................. .........civilians have very little to no idea about war....the US has always had a bad habit of asking the military to do the dirty work and kill the enemy and then turn around and prosecute them for doing their job

This reminds me of the bad treatment of our soldiers after they came back from V.N. You are so correct, Bon.

road kill
01-13-2012, 04:42 PM
This reminds me of the bad treatment of our soldiers after they came back from V.N. You are so correct, Bon.
When we returned to Long Beach, we were treated worse than those Taliban guys.

Noone seemed too outraged then.

Just sayin'......

RK

BonMallari
01-13-2012, 05:23 PM
When we returned to Long Beach, we were treated worse than those Taliban guys.

Noone seemed too outraged then.

Just sayin'......

RK

unfortunately that is one of the these that just doesnt make sense...on all the different forums I see 99.99 percent support of the troops, people thanking people for their service, or for the service of their sons or daughters. But when push comes to shove or the rubber meets the road, just how supportive are we of our military....

I know the country needs some sort of military oversight otherwise it would open the doors to rogue units with an agenda going berserk...but somewhere around the Viet Nam war and the Hanoi Jane crowd made the military out to be the bad guys, never been the same since...really sad...

Clay Rogers
01-13-2012, 05:38 PM
I see no wrong doing other than releasing the tape or pictures. Why? Serves no purpose what so ever. Thats the fellow that needs punishment, the fellow that released the evidence. Sh!t happens in combat, it ain't ever pretty. Its not like the movies made in hollywood. When your 18, fresh out of high school, and your thrust into that kinda hell, you do stuff you normally would never do. I know I did, and if I have to be the one to tell it, it will never get told. They are good at teaching us how to fight and survive, but they suck at teaching us what to do with all the emotions after a firefight. You don't have time to deal with them when your fighting for your life, but afterwards, they hit you like a freaking bus loaded with bricks. And if pissing on a dead corpse is what they had to do to deal with it, so be it.

charly_t
01-13-2012, 07:08 PM
I see no wrong doing other than releasing the tape or pictures. Why? Serves no purpose what so ever. Thats the fellow that needs punishment, the fellow that released the evidence. Sh!t happens in combat, it ain't ever pretty. Its not like the movies made in hollywood. When your 18, fresh out of high school, and your thrust into that kinda hell, you do stuff you normally would never do. I know I did, and if I have to be the one to tell it, it will never get told. They are good at teaching us how to fight and survive, but they suck at teaching us what to do with all the emotions after a firefight. You don't have time to deal with them when your fighting for your life, but afterwards, they hit you like a freaking bus loaded with bricks. And if pissing on a dead corpse is what they had to do to deal with it, so be it.

Right as rain. I saw an article recently that said that we do not teach our soldiers to deal with what they have to do in combat. Looks to me like we have failed our fighting men ( big time ).

charly_t
01-13-2012, 07:12 PM
When we returned to Long Beach, we were treated worse than those Taliban guys.

Noone seemed too outraged then.

Just sayin'......

RK

I remember those days...........I wanted Jane F. to suffer for her sins. I still hate the way she acts about the whole thing. No remorse whatsoever it would seem.

HPL
01-13-2012, 08:53 PM
I had an opportunity today to talk to several active duty officers (Lt Commander - Naval Captain) and the most cogent statement any of them made was that the real problem is that what this really shows is a breakdown in leadership and that unfortunately the wrong people were going to bear the brunt of the punishment. It was his opinion that the true responsibility rested with the officers who were in charge of this unit. He felt that this incident showed poor control by the folks who were in charge and that what we might view as a relatively minor incident was indicative of a lack of military discipline and leadership that could lead to more egregious transgressions. The actual perpetrators are probably relative kids (perhaps 18-21 or 22yrs old) in a tough situation where they almost certainly have lost buddies to the Taliban and just did two foolish things: 1. urinating on the bodies, and 2. VIDEOTAPING it!!! It was his opinion that the harshest punishment should be meted out to the kids' commanding officers.

Eric Johnson
01-13-2012, 08:56 PM
First of all, what is the difference between this case and Abu Ghraib and My Lai? While there are differences in scale, all three reflect a wanton disregard for that which we think makes us better than the enemy.... our humanity. Those who say "What's wrong with this? The enemy decapitates our side." are neglecting this basic concept. We shouldn't do this just because the enemy does it. We're better than that. Sure. We shoot to kill. But, when the shooting is over, we patch up the survivors and heal those that we can.

What should happen is as Mr. West says, the chaps who did this, as well as the one who shot the photo and the one who moved it into the public eye, should have an Article 15 preferred. Their commander should also consider whether these troops ought to be sent out the gate on a General Discharge.

For all the good and decent acts by hundreds ...nay, thousands of our troops, this is the sort of thing that will stand out in the minds of the indigenous peoples that we try to help. This mindless and puerile act of just a few will make the actions of so many soldiers more difficult and perhaps even more dangerous.

Eric

luvalab
01-14-2012, 05:14 PM
Heaven help me, I'm posting on POTUS...

But it seems that when young men who believe they are doing the right thing for the right reasons and have good leadership and support BEHAVE WITH PASSION, FOCUS, AND DIGNITY. What was taped showed little of any of that.

When the belief, the leadership, or the support break down, they seem often to revert to excretory function language and behavior.

What happened is gross and beneath the uniform that they wear, but I certainly understand this type of behavior has happened in war for millenia and will continue to happen because even (especially?) in uniform soldiers are human.

Still. Something broke down. Beyond what anyone thinks the punishment should be (darned if I know), the breakdown should be examined, and that examination should not be belittled, or scorned as unpatriotic.

IMO.

road kill
01-14-2012, 09:27 PM
Heaven help me, I'm posting on POTUS...

But it seems that when young men who believe they are doing the right thing for the right reasons and have good leadership and support BEHAVE WITH PASSION, FOCUS, AND DIGNITY. What was taped showed little of any of that.

When the belief, the leadership, or the support break down, they seem often to revert to excretory function language and behavior.

What happened is gross and beneath the uniform that they wear, but I certainly understand this type of behavior has happened in war for millenia and will continue to happen because even (especially?) in uniform soldiers are human.

Still. Something broke down. Beyond what anyone thinks the punishment should be (darned if I know), the breakdown should be examined, and that examination should not be belittled, or scorned as unpatriotic.

IMO.

Very nice post.



stan b

1tulip
01-17-2012, 03:50 PM
When we returned to Long Beach, we were treated worse than those Taliban guys.

Noone seemed too outraged then.

Just sayin'......

RK

I'm a veteran (Navy Nurse Corps... or if you're the president Nurse Corpse) from that era. My corpsmen (AKA corpsemen) were treated badly when they went off base in uniform. And, if they had fought back... it could have been Captains mast for them.

Listen... the thing that would get us in trouble faster than anything else was to embarrass our command. These kids videoed it. For all the reasons Rep. West said about it... I don't criticize the micturation. But you don't risk bringing anything but honor upon your unit or your command. It was the pictures.

At the most... non-judicial punishment and reassignment.

1tulip
01-17-2012, 03:53 PM
PS: There are well known pictures of George S. Patton micturating in the Rhine. It was the same as doing it on the whole country. He wasn't relieving himself. He was making an important statement.

www.laughingravy21.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sfid=80103&c=126332&i=153372786

Uncle Bill
01-20-2012, 10:50 AM
PS: There are well known pictures of George S. Patton micturating in the Rhine. It was the same as doing it on the whole country. He wasn't relieving himself. He was making an important statement.

www.laughingravy21.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sfid=80103&c=126332&i=153372786 (http://www.laughingravy21.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sfid=80103&c=126332&i=153372786)


Nice usage of a $10 word, but as erudite as Patton was, my guess is he woulda said "pizzonya"...an Italian term he picked up tanking through Sicily.;-)

My all time favorite GSP statement was, "Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!"

UB

Uncle Bill
01-23-2012, 01:55 PM
This just in from a fellow buddy in Semper Fi land. UB








Pee on a Crucifix, you're an "Artist

"Pee on The American Flag, you're a "Constitutionalist"

Pee on a Police Car, you're a "Freedom Lovin' 99 percenter"

Pee on a Taliban piece of sheit that just tried to kill you and your fellow Marines, you're a "Villain"

Shane Olean
01-23-2012, 03:05 PM
This just in from a fellow buddy in Semper Fi land. UB








Pee on a Crucifix, you're an "Artist

"Pee on The American Flag, you're a "Constitutionalist"

Pee on a Police Car, you're a "Freedom Lovin' 99 percenter"

Pee on a Taliban piece of sheit that just tried to kill you and your fellow Marines, you're a "Villain"





That my friend is the GOSPEL!!! Take care UB - looking forward to seeing you!!!


SMO

Daniel J Simoens
01-23-2012, 03:19 PM
Image Google 'Potty Training America' and the first return is a pretty funny pic related to this incident. I don't know if it's clean enough for RTF. It's not bad but I'm not sure what the standards are of this place.

Criquetpas
01-23-2012, 03:25 PM
How about condums / water balloons filled with urine and human feces thrown at you from our wonderful college students .circa the l960's . Pissin on dead enemies, come on , only problem somebody posted it. Let the Military deal with it. Much better then ears and enuf said.

road kill
01-23-2012, 04:03 PM
How about condums / water balloons filled with urine and human feces thrown at you from our wonderful college students .circa the l960's . Pissin on dead enemies, come on , only problem somebody posted it. Let the Military deal with it. Much better then ears and enuf said.

Been there, experienced that.:(
(BTW we were not dead)

When we came home we were so proud of what we had done.
We were treated with disrespect and hatred.

Its not like I asked to go..........


RK

charly_t
01-23-2012, 08:13 PM
RK, most of us really do appreciate all that you guys did for us. Only the ignorant, little minded of this country fell for that stuff. It was an American tragedy that those kind of people had the money and time to travel around and do this. Speaks volumns about what people (especially the young people ) were being taught and told. I'm guessing it was the idle rich who disdained most of we working Americans. And no one in this country works as hard as our fighting men. Thanks to all of you we can still be as free as we are today. It may be lost shortly but not by our fine fighting men but by our voters via politicians etc.

HPL
01-23-2012, 08:16 PM
First of all, what is the difference between this case and Abu Ghraib and My Lai? While there are differences in scale, all three reflect a wanton disregard for that which we think makes us better than the enemy.... our humanity. Those who say "What's wrong with this? The enemy decapitates our side." are neglecting this basic concept. We shouldn't do this just because the enemy does it. We're better than that. Sure. We shoot to kill. But, when the shooting is over, we patch up the survivors and heal those that we can.

What should happen is as Mr. West says, the chaps who did this, as well as the one who shot the photo and the one who moved it into the public eye, should have an Article 15 preferred. Their commander should also consider whether these troops ought to be sent out the gate on a General Discharge.

For all the good and decent acts by hundreds ...nay, thousands of our troops, this is the sort of thing that will stand out in the minds of the indigenous peoples that we try to help. This mindless and puerile act of just a few will make the actions of so many soldiers more difficult and perhaps even more dangerous.

Eric
It is mind boggling that you would put Abu Ghraib and Mi Lai in the same category and even more ridiculous to put this silly incident in a category with either one. I never thought that Abu Ghraib was all that big a deal, and except for what the two (Abu Ghraib & the recent incident) say about the command ranks, I think the pissing incident is a tempest in a teapot. Even Mi Lai was hardly worth mentioning when compared to the fire bombings of Dresden, Hamburg, and Tokyo. I've never been in the service, but from what all those that I know who have, it's not pretty, and not civilized.

caryalsobrook
01-23-2012, 08:54 PM
RK, most of us really do appreciate all that you guys did for us. Only the ignorant, little minded of this country fell for that stuff. It was an American tragedy that those kind of people had the money and time to travel around and do this. Speaks volumns about what people (especially the young people ) were being taught and told. I'm guessing it was the idle rich who disdained most of we working Americans. And no one in this country works as hard as our fighting men. Thanks to all of you we can still be as free as we are today. It may be lost shortly but not by our fine fighting men but by our voters via politicians etc.

You really think money had anything to do with it? Maybe it was just htose who were idle whether they had money or not.

charly_t
01-23-2012, 09:52 PM
You really think money had anything to do with it? Maybe it was just htose who were idle whether they had money or not.

Uuummm, it always takes money when we travel. :-)
Of course I do understand that some people are not paying their own expenses ( may even get paid in some cases to go act like unhappy "voters" ). And I am judging by some well off young people back in my day ( 1950s ). Smart in books but dumb in life. Hoin' corn and pickin' tater bugs was something those "kids" couldn't or wouldn't have done. No poison on our weeds in the field and no poison on our tater bugs..........we really lived a healthy life we just didn't realize it back then.

Uncle Bill
01-24-2012, 02:18 PM
How about condums / water balloons filled with urine and human feces thrown at you from our wonderful college students .circa the l960's . Pissin on dead enemies, come on , only problem somebody posted it. Let the Military deal with it. Much better then ears and enuf said.

I can relate to that Earl. Good hearing from you again. Here's an excellant letter to the editor by a 53 year old Mom living in Canada. She tells it like it is, concerning the Muslims of the world. Enjoy,

UB



THIS ONE PACKS A FIRM PUNCH


Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady...


"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not, started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001and have continually threatened to do so since?

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured by a justice system of a nation they are fighting against in a brutal Insurgency.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East, start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which, is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan.

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head, while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan , come out and fight like men, instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in Mosques and behind women and children.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of Nirvana, care about the innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of Speech on stories, is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting at home, to hear about them when something happens.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:

I don't care. Shoot him again.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed 'special' food, that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe, in your heart of hearts:

I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it.

I don't care!!

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail Friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:

Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if during their life on earth, they made a difference in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.

I have another quote that I would like to share AND...I hope you forward All this.

One last thought for the day:

Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:

1. Jesus Christ

2. The British Soldier.

3. The Canadian Soldier.

4. The US Soldier, and

5. The Australian Soldier

One died for your soul, the other four, for you and your children's Freedom.


YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET!


AMEN! GOD BLESS CANADA AND AMERICA.

Criquetpas
01-24-2012, 04:27 PM
Very nice piece UB ! This was first post on Potus > Many don't realize the old addage of "freedom isn't free" . There is NO glory in war but when asked to serve these young men and women deserve our upmost respect. Sure there is a lack of conventional wisdom from some that get caught up in the chaos of war ,but, let the Military deal with it ,not the court of public opinion.