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luvmylabs23139
01-16-2012, 12:47 PM
I'd like a reasonable reason form the liberals as to why the GOOBERMENT should take my hard earned money and give it tp the welfare slime?
WHY do I pay for my house and the welare slimes house?
Why do I pay for my heat and the WELFARE SLIMES' heat?
Why do I pay for my food and the WELFARE SLIMES" food?
Why do I pay to babysit their kids?

Now tell me why I bother to work? Seems like I get screwed at every turn!

THEY BREED THEM THEY CAN FEED THEN ETC!

Oh yeah you can say I am a terrible person but I just want to keep what I worked for!

luvmylabs23139
01-16-2012, 01:11 PM
I forgot a few:
Why do I pay for my cell phone and I pay for the leaches cell phone?
Why do I pay 59.99 for internet yet the nleached pay 10.00?
Why do I pay$1194.73 per month for DHand I's medical insurance and yet still pay for the leaches to get everything for free?
THIS IS BEYOND A JOKE!
Can anyone guess that I just cut a large check to the treasury for 4th quarter taxes that must be paid by the 17'th?

JDogger
01-16-2012, 08:43 PM
There are no liberals here luvy.Just degrees of conservatism.
Your request falls on deaf ears. I mean, we are all hunters, HTers, FTers and dog trainers here....right? :rolleyes:

JDogger

Buzz
01-16-2012, 11:08 PM
Now tell me why I bother to work?




I mean, we are all hunters, HTers, FTers and dog trainers here....right? :rolleyes:

JDogger


This is why I work. I can't afford to do those things if I don't work.

Paul Stensvaag
01-16-2012, 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by JDogger
I mean, we are all hunters, HTers, FTers and dog trainers here....right?

JDogger


What is HTers? Missing an A there perhaps?

road kill
01-17-2012, 05:37 AM
There are no liberals here luvy.Just degrees of conservatism.
Your request falls on deaf ears. I mean, we are all hunters, HTers, FTers and dog trainers here....right? :rolleyes:

JDogger
We are not ALL conservatives here.
Dogs and dog games is generally what brought us all here.

Though some here are more "special" than others.:rolleyes:



RK

Jason Glavich
01-17-2012, 06:56 AM
Originally Posted by JDogger
I mean, we are all hunters, HTers, FTers and dog trainers here....right?

JDogger


What is HTers? Missing an A there perhaps?

Hunt Testers, Field Trilers, dog trainers....

Buzz
01-17-2012, 08:14 AM
Hunt Testers, Field Trilers, dog trainers....

I think he was making a joke...

HATers...

zeus3925
01-17-2012, 08:33 AM
Ask the same questions of your local social service agency. I'll bet you'll come away with a modified impression of who is eligible for what. You'll also want to inquire about what the typical welfare recipient looks like. I'll bet you'll find they are on average divorced or separated women with two kids or less that are on assistance for an average of two years or less.

The fathers of the children have not been ordered to pay child support or they are actively evading it. There are federal grants to states to pursue deadbeat das to make them pay up. Collections are generally routed through the welfare system if they do not match up to the public assistance grant. It makes it look like the recipient is getting more public money than they actually are.

The other class of typical welfare recipient are those who are disabled (by social security standards in most states).

No where is welfare a get rich scheme. Even in "generous" Minnesota it is a bare minimum support level. If you don't believe me, go down to the local social service office and find out. The staff I am sure will be happy to inform you.

But, if you really want to get people off the dole, bring back American jobs from China and Thailand. Or you could cut everyone loose and pay more for police and private security defending your possessions from a desperate populace looking for something to eat.

caryalsobrook
01-17-2012, 10:35 AM
Ask the same questions of your local social service agency. I'll bet you'll come away with a modified impression of who is eligible for what. You'll also want to inquire about what the typical welfare recipient looks like. I'll bet you'll find they are on average divorced or separated women with two kids or less that are on assistance for an average of two years or less.

The fathers of the children have not been ordered to pay child support or they are actively evading it. There are federal grants to states to pursue deadbeat das to make them pay up. Collections are generally routed through the welfare system if they do not match up to the public assistance grant. It makes it look like the recipient is getting more public money than they actually are.

The other class of typical welfare recipient are those who are disabled (by social security standards in most states).

No where is welfare a get rich scheme. Even in "generous" Minnesota it is a bare minimum support level. If you don't believe me, go down to the local social service office and find out. The staff I am sure will be happy to inform you.

But, if you really want to get people off the dole, bring back American jobs from China and Thailand. Or you could cut everyone loose and pay more for police and private security defending your possessions from a desperate populace looking for something to eat.

When will people realize that the gov. is NOT in the charity business. It is in the rules, regulations,tax and MOST OF ALL IN THE CONTROL BUSINESS. Charity comes from people, not the gov. Ask yourself what YOU have done, what YOU have given in the way of your time and resources to help your fellow man to obtain a better life.

Government aid to those disabled? take a look at the ads on tv by lawyers specializing in dealing with the gov. in obtaining disability. big business for the lawyers and big business for the gov. in gaining control.

You talk about single parents with 2 children. My experience has been that those who are are on welfare were at one time also children of a single parent who was on welfare. We have perpetuated genarations of welfare recipients. IT HAS NOT WORKED AND IT WILL NOT WORK. If it did and was working then you would not hear me say a word. For the past 45 years we have spent more and more money, akking into the trillions to eliminate poverty and we now have more than ever. IT HAS NOT WORKED. Get rid of the failed system of welfare and try something else and give that a chance to work.

Do not misinterpret what I have said. I do not believe that those on welfare are any more of a deadbeat or more lazy or are less capable that those who are not on welfare. They have been locked in a gov. system that controls and limits their oportunity to succeed. Much more humane would be to say "you don't work, you don't eat".

The American people are the most charitable people who have ever been on this earth. They give, not based on rules or regulations but their sincere desire to help those who truly need help. I sometimes wonder that those that bitch and advocate gov. welfare, offer their time and resources to help their fellow man. No rules, no regulations, just seek some organization or group(and they are many), and offer their time and effort. If you have not then you would be amazed at how many people do and want to help. My experience has been that after generations of welfare and gov. control, those seeknog charity now tend to show a sense of entitlement and not charity. Those who don't come from generations of welfare do not exhibit this attitude.

Marty Lee
01-17-2012, 12:28 PM
I'll bet you'll find they are on average divorced or separated women with two kids or less that are on assistance for an average of two years or less. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
NO NO NO Not down here in the south! what you WILL find is that MOST all of them have:
1 Cell Phone
2 expensive car
3 fake hair and nails
4 high dollar clothes
5plenty of beer
6 cigarettes
7 more than 2 babies
8 and medicaid for all!
I could go on but maybe you get the idea BUT HEY i am just the MAN trying to hold them down......GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT and then i will be glad to help.

charly_t
01-17-2012, 01:01 PM
I have to add what I was told yesterday by a once retired nurse ( R.N. ). This once retired lady went back to work because she has a relative with two disabled children ( one who will never talk, walk or communicate in any way ). She helps this relative with whatever is needed. After the care-givers for one of these children left the child outside on a very hot Oklahoma day the mother of these two little girls gave up and quit her job. It was the last straw for that mother in finding child care for these two children that was reliable. That mother badly needs a lift to get one child up and out of bed etc. I do not begrudge that family any help that they need. The ones who are able to work and won't are the ones who should be called to account for their time and how they live. If you don't work and are able to do so you don't eat. If
a family is on welfare ands any of them are able to work they should, including children who are able and old enough.

menmon
01-17-2012, 01:10 PM
I'd like a reasonable reason form the liberals as to why the GOOBERMENT should take my hard earned money and give it tp the welfare slime?
WHY do I pay for my house and the welare slimes house?
Why do I pay for my heat and the WELFARE SLIMES' heat?
Why do I pay for my food and the WELFARE SLIMES" food?
Why do I pay to babysit their kids?

Now tell me why I bother to work? Seems like I get screwed at every turn!

THEY BREED THEM THEY CAN FEED THEN ETC!

Oh yeah you can say I am a terrible person but I just want to keep what I worked for!

You want to know why?

Because when the gooberment gives money to someone, they spend it and it circulates its way to the various corperations that provide these various products and then to the bottomline of these companies and finally paid to the shareholders in dividends and hopfully it does not stop there but gets spent.

Trust me, you do not want them to stop giving it to them or there will be many more without jobs.

Uncle Bill
01-17-2012, 01:39 PM
You want to know why?

Because when the gooberment gives money to someone, they spend it and it circulates its way to the various corperations that provide these various products and then to the bottomline of these companies and finally paid to the shareholders in dividends and hopfully it does not stop there but gets spent.

Trust me, you do not want them to stop giving it to them or there will be many more without jobs.


There ya go, Y'all. That's the original Oracle of IHOP 'splaining what we imbeciles can't comprehend. Sadly, he's among the crowd of fools that will have this nation crumbling in short order should their socialistic oligarchy get voted back in.

UB

duckheads
01-17-2012, 01:51 PM
I think this is what Luvy is talking about. Judge Judy:

http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=15915

Evicently CBS pulled the first youtube of this episode.

mngundog
01-17-2012, 02:31 PM
Lets not forget about the rest of the "Welfare" recipients, subsidized loans, subsidized colleges, subsidized stadiums, student loans, "cash for clunkers", bank bailouts, auto industry bailouts, a lot of pretty well off people are receiving government welfare but they don't want to think about it that way. On another thread they someone was talking about the government forgiving $200,000 loans of veterinarians after 25 years, making them pay only taxes on that "gift". Should the gov. be giving $200,000 gifts to people with above average income? Welfare can be had at all levels, I don't want pay for a low income persons heating, nor do I think my neighbors $40K truck, $12K Polaris side by side, 7K four wheeler, and $50K shed should be considered a tax right off. If we want reform, lets end it all instead of just one class of people. Yes, if you bought a new car under the cash for clunkers program, you are a welfare recipient, IMO.

caryalsobrook
01-17-2012, 02:53 PM
You want to know why?

Because when the gooberment gives money to someone, they spend it and it circulates its way to the various corperations that provide these various products and then to the bottomline of these companies and finally paid to the shareholders in dividends and hopfully it does not stop there but gets spent.

Trust me, you do not want them to stop giving it to them or there will be many more without jobs.
Brilliant logic!!!! So EVERYBODY should quit and let the government give them money. Then they can spend it and the corporations will make money and around and around it goes. OOPS , I forgot. Who is going to work and invest in the corporations, since everybody gets to ride in the wagon. Yep, NOBODY TO PULL THE WAGON!!!!. Good plan:rolleyes:

Hew
01-17-2012, 03:05 PM
You want to know why?

Because when the gooberment gives money to someone, they spend it and it circulates its way to the various corperations that provide these various products and then to the bottomline of these companies and finally paid to the shareholders in dividends and hopfully it does not stop there but gets spent.

Trust me, you do not want them to stop giving it to them or there will be many more without jobs.
LMAO. Good grief. :rolleyes:

luvmylabs23139
01-17-2012, 03:21 PM
You want to know why?


Trust me, you do not want them to stop giving it to them or there will be many more without jobs.
I do want to stop giving it to them. I worked for the money I should be allowed to spend it as I wish! After all I earned it not the leaches OBUMMA and company give what they confiscated from me to!

caryalsobrook
01-17-2012, 03:21 PM
Lets not forget about the rest of the "Welfare" recipients, subsidized loans, subsidized colleges, subsidized stadiums, student loans, "cash for clunkers", bank bailouts, auto industry bailouts, a lot of pretty well off people are receiving government welfare but they don't want to think about it that way. On another thread they someone was talking about the government forgiving $200,000 loans of veterinarians after 25 years, making them pay only taxes on that "gift". Should the gov. be giving $200,000 gifts to people with above average income? Welfare can be had at all levels, I don't want pay for a low income persons heating, nor do I think my neighbors $40K truck, $12K Polaris side by side, 7K four wheeler, and $50K shed should be considered a tax right off. If we want reform, lets end it all instead of just one class of people.

I could not agree with you more. You would have to be crazy to believe the income tax structure makes any sense. 70,000 pages of essentially deductions and credits. Your deductions that I can't take advantage of, I call "loopholes". My deductions that you can't take advantage of, you call "loopholes". You want to get rid of the loopholes then not only get rid of all 70,000 pages of tax code, GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX AND REPLACE IT WITH A CONSUMPTION TAX!! You consume it, yo pay tax on it. NO HIDDEN TAXES!! You know how much the government takes everytime you buy something and consume it. No oil depletion allowance, no child deduction, earned income tax credit, mortgage interest payment, all gone.

We have a health care bill that already has ove 2000 waivers, AND IT HASN'T EVEN GONE INTO AFFECT! At the same time the POTUS says all shold play by the same rules. You think that if your compeditor has a waiver and you don't, you are playing by the same rules. Is he just a complete idiot or is he just a liar, you tell me.

Let me give you just a small bit of logic of the government. They had a program last year that the gov. would pay 100% of the cost of a shed for a farmer if it was used to store hay for 5 years(it may be 7, not sure). After that you could use it for anything you wanted. I missed that oportunity and did not get the free shed while my neighbors did. It has become a business to sit around and figure out how you can get something from the gov. for free. If your compeditors get it and you don't then you will be at a dissadvantage.

Yes I agree with you 100% and to correct it then get rid of the income tax and replace it with a consumption tax. Think about it.:)

menmon
01-17-2012, 03:27 PM
Brilliant logic!!!! So EVERYBODY should quit and let the government give them money. Then they can spend it and the corporations will make money and around and around it goes. OOPS , I forgot. Who is going to work and invest in the corporations, since everybody gets to ride in the wagon. Yep, NOBODY TO PULL THE WAGON!!!!. Good plan:rolleyes:

Didn't say you had to like it....but I'm sure that you will like it better than what you are proposing:rolleyes:

This is what is wrong with the Tea Party. Their ideal of cutting cost is to turn the water off. That will cut cost but you still need water to live:(

menmon
01-17-2012, 03:30 PM
I do want to stop giving it to them. I worked for the money I should be allowed to spend it as I wish! After all I earned it not the leaches OBUMMA and company give what they confiscated from me to!

Why does it always end with Obama. They have been taking money from you way before Obama and giving it to someone else:rolleyes:

He has not changed to tax code...no I forget he did cut your payroll tax. Who did not want to extend that????

luvmylabs23139
01-17-2012, 03:48 PM
Why does it always end with Obama. They have been taking money from you way before Obama and giving it to someone else:rolleyes:

He has not changed to tax code...no I forget he did cut your payroll tax. Who did not want to extend that????


The man is a sociialist flat out! He is the king of food stamps. He should be thrown out of office.

menmon
01-17-2012, 03:52 PM
The man is a sociialist flat out! He is the king of food stamps. He should be thrown out of office.

Don't see any difference between this one and the last one on this front. Less stamps were given by the last guy, because he had less hungry people, not because his policies were different.

luvmylabs23139
01-17-2012, 03:57 PM
I have to agree. Refundable child credit sociailist redistribution crap started under Bush and was greatly increased by Obumma. This one really burns me up because if anything those people with kids should pay more since they use the dept of ed not me.
Dept of ED should be eliminated to start with!

caryalsobrook
01-17-2012, 04:06 PM
Didn't say you had to like it....but I'm sure that you will like it better than what you are proposing:rolleyes:

This is what is wrong with the Tea Party. Their ideal of cutting cost is to turn the water off. That will cut cost but you still need water to live:(
Oh yo are so right. I'm sure that I can scam the current system with the best of them and forthat matter, I'm actually a little lazy about it. Much easier than working. Retirement gives me plenty of time to make money without working. My lazyness caused me to miss the shed which could have been turned into kennels for my dogs but no problem, I'm sure the gov. will come up with another plan that I can take advantage of. Yo got a temporary SS and Medicare break for a year. Mine will continue for the rest of my life.:p

ARay11
01-17-2012, 04:21 PM
Can anyone guess that I just cut a large check to the treasury for 4th quarter taxes that must be paid by the 17'th?

It is nice to have a place such as this to vent a little...

I don't even want to look at our taxes this year :mad:

But, when I think about that total tax amount, I try not to think about the dead beats. I try to think about those who are truly helped and blessed.
nah, doesnt help much, but it does make me feel a little tiny bit better.

Now, which one of these candidates is going to change something????
So far, the change is the same... I still only get to keep the mouse's share of what I earn.

BonMallari
01-17-2012, 04:37 PM
It is nice to have a place such as this to vent a little...

I don't even want to look at our taxes this year :mad:

But, when I think about that total tax amount, I try not to think about the dead beats. I try to think about those who are truly helped and blessed.
nah, doesnt help much, but it does make me feel a little tiny bit better.

Now, which one of these candidates is going to change something????
So far, the change is the same... I still only get to keep the mouse's share of what I earn.

here is a hint: any of the ones with a R under party affiliation...keeping the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is not the option the country wants to explore,making Harry Reid the Minority leader in the Senate would make the job much easier

ARay11
01-17-2012, 04:39 PM
here is a hint: any of the ones with a R under party affiliation...keeping the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is not the option the country wants to explore,making Harry Reid the Minority leader in the Senate would make the job much easier


LOL I have voted R all my life....oddly enough so has the rest of my state of residence...whether it was TX or OK...we always seem to majority vote the right answer and somehow the other states win.

charly_t
01-17-2012, 05:09 PM
Why does it always end with Obama. They have been taking money from you way before Obama and giving it to someone else:rolleyes:

He has not changed to tax code...no I forget he did cut your payroll tax. Who did not want to extend that????


"Straw that broke the camel's back" maybe. Except..........it is not a straw at all.

Buzz
01-17-2012, 06:22 PM
Why does it always end with Obama. They have been taking money from you way before Obama and giving it to someone else:rolleyes:

He has not changed to tax code...no I forget he did cut your payroll tax. Who did not want to extend that????


Mike, they can't stand the truth! That socialist swine!

By the way, I see that Mitt has the lion's share of donations from the banking industry. He's taken more than all of them combined including Obama.

Ya gotta fall in line son! What are ya thinking?

road kill
01-17-2012, 07:25 PM
There are no liberals here luvy.Just degrees of conservatism.
Your request falls on deaf ears. I mean, we are all hunters, HTers, FTers and dog trainers here....right? :rolleyes:

JDogger

No liberals (progressives) here??

You been reading posts here the last couple days?



RK

luvmylabs23139
01-17-2012, 07:37 PM
Mike, they can't stand the truth! That socialist swine!

By the way, I see that Mitt has the lion's share of donations from the banking industry. He's taken more than all of them combined including Obama.

Ya gotta fall in line son! What are ya thinking?

Of course the DNC moved the last day of the convention, when BUMMA does his speach to "BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM". The reason was all those luxury boxes for big doners.
OBUMMA= socialized healthcare!

road kill
01-17-2012, 07:49 PM
Don't see any difference between this one and the last one on this front. Less stamps were given by the last guy, because he had less hungry people, not because his policies were different.
Do you truly believe that all the people receiving food stamps are hungry and can not make it any other way?


RK

JDogger
01-17-2012, 08:05 PM
Do you truly believe that all the people receiving food stamps are hungry and can not make it any other way?


RK

I know your question was to Sambo not me. But I would rather see my taxes going internally as opposed to rebuilding infrastructure that we bombed in Irag for a lost cause.

:):):)Just for you. JD

M&K's Retrievers
01-17-2012, 09:54 PM
Hmmmm, no IHOP POTUS posts in almost 9 months.

Paul Stensvaag
01-17-2012, 10:19 PM
I lived Norway for a year and a couple of years ago went back for a visit with relatives.
We were housed in an upstairs bedroom with a kind of stepping staircase and ladderish entrance to our quarters.

My daughter fell down when she was horse playing with their young son. Banged head and in need of stitches we went to the clinic. $5.00 in total for the visit, a shot of something, stitches and a followup visit to take them out.

So, all this sewer talk about "socialism" has roots in something very other than knowledge of what it is and isn't. Norway invests in and considers the country's health and welfare a national asset. America does not.

In the meantime, keep feeding the war machine obscene amounts of money in what amounts to a huge transfer of this nation's wealth to corporations invested in war profiteering.

And, now, here come the attacks.................

Hew
01-18-2012, 05:32 AM
I lived Norway for a year and a couple of years ago went back for a visit with relatives.
We were housed in an upstairs bedroom with a kind of stepping staircase and ladderish entrance to our quarters.

My daughter fell down when she was horse playing with their young son. Banged head and in need of stitches we went to the clinic. $5.00 in total for the visit, a shot of something, stitches and a followup visit to take them out.

So, all this sewer talk about "socialism" has roots in something very other than knowledge of what it is and isn't. Norway invests in and considers the country's health and welfare a national asset. America does not.

In the meantime, keep feeding the war machine obscene amounts of money in what amounts to a huge transfer of this nation's wealth to corporations invested in war profiteering.

And, now, here come the attacks.................
Now there's some gratitude for ya....America's "war machine" kept the Soviets out of Norway for 40 years, after kicking the Germans out of Norway in WWII. Your 5 dollar shot, and every 5 dollar (or free shot) throughout Western Europe, has been subsidized by the American taxpayers who provided an umbrella of protection over the entire continent. Yes, we're slowly coming to the realization that Europe doesn't a) want, b) need, and c) deserve our help and I'm sure we'll slowly start transfering that money from protecting folks who can't/WON'T protect themselves (see Germany's 1940 cakewalk invasion of Norway) into more useful, domestic endeavors. But nearly a century of saving Europe from itself is kind of reflexive, so it will take time for us to shut down our Western European Gravy Train....errr War Machine. Bear with us, please.

But another question is, since Norway is so awesome, why don't you live there? Their healthcare sounds pretty good, but there must be some over-riding reason why you live here rather than there, correct? And if there is, perhaps their wonderful healthcare system comes at the expense of something else you like even better in America...like more freedom? Just a thought.

Now here comes the accusations of racism, violencism, anti-Catholcism, "sewer talk" or whatever other PC tool you'll wield in an attempt to limit discussion you don't like.

Paul Stensvaag
01-18-2012, 06:25 AM
No, no accusations. Thanks for the history lesson.....you are amusing. Thanks!

menmon
01-18-2012, 07:23 AM
I have to agree. Refundable child credit sociailist redistribution crap started under Bush and was greatly increased by Obumma. This one really burns me up because if anything those people with kids should pay more since they use the dept of ed not me.
Dept of ED should be eliminated to start with!

No before Gov. Perry gets educated;)

menmon
01-18-2012, 07:32 AM
Mike, they can't stand the truth! That socialist swine!

By the way, I see that Mitt has the lion's share of donations from the banking industry. He's taken more than all of them combined including Obama.

Ya gotta fall in line son! What are ya thinking?

Chairman & CEO / President US

Don't forget, I work for a bank and they pay me a salary....but I own a small business so I want someone in there that has a clue to my challeges and it is not some bought and paid for republican.

menmon
01-18-2012, 07:41 AM
Of course the DNC moved the last day of the convention, when BUMMA does his speach to "BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM". The reason was all those luxury boxes for big doners.
OBUMMA= socialized healthcare!

No he didn't...that was done long time ago....It is called Medicare, Medicade, Veterens

The other 30% of the system is still owned by insurance companies.

Please do the math on how much you pay for your private healthcare as a percentage of your earnings. Scary huh...

menmon
01-18-2012, 07:44 AM
Do you truly believe that all the people receiving food stamps are hungry and can not make it any other way?


RK

No...but the cost to keep the abuse out of it would cost more.

Good friend of mine gave me the definition of a sorry SOB once:

To Lazy to work
To Scared to steel
To prideful to take govenment handouts

I would say that is a worthless SOB

menmon
01-18-2012, 07:47 AM
Hmmmm, no IHOP POTUS posts in almost 9 months.

Been busy trying to game the system! You know us bankers, always up to no good:cool:

Hew
01-18-2012, 07:49 AM
By the way, I see that Mitt has the lion's share of donations from the banking industry. He's taken more than all of them combined including Obama.
Gee, that didn't seem to bug you in '08 when Obama raked in very nearly double what McCain did from the financial sector (banks/investment). And while it is still early yet, Obama in '08 collected nearly 7x more than Romney has so far from bankers in this cycle.

menmon
01-18-2012, 07:52 AM
Now there's some gratitude for ya....America's "war machine" kept the Soviets out of Norway for 40 years, after kicking the Germans out of Norway in WWII. Your 5 dollar shot, and every 5 dollar (or free shot) throughout Western Europe, has been subsidized by the American taxpayers who provided an umbrella of protection over the entire continent. Yes, we're slowly coming to the realization that Europe doesn't a) want, b) need, and c) deserve our help and I'm sure we'll slowly start transfering that money from protecting folks who can't/WON'T protect themselves (see Germany's 1940 cakewalk invasion of Norway) into more useful, domestic endeavors. But nearly a century of saving Europe from itself is kind of reflexive, so it will take time for us to shut down our Western European Gravy Train....errr War Machine. Bear with us, please.

But another question is, since Norway is so awesome, why don't you live there? Their healthcare sounds pretty good, but there must be some over-riding reason why you live here rather than there, correct? And if there is, perhaps their wonderful healthcare system comes at the expense of something else you like even better in America...like more freedom? Just a thought.

Now here comes the accusations of racism, violencism, anti-Catholcism, "sewer talk" or whatever other PC tool you'll wield in an attempt to limit discussion you don't like.

Yea Yea Yea.....everyone is in debt to you:rolleyes:

Buzz
01-18-2012, 08:09 AM
Don't forget, I work for a bank and they pay me a salary....but I own a small business so I want someone in there that has a clue to my challeges and it is not some bought and paid for republican.




Please do the math on how much you pay for your private healthcare as a percentage of your earnings. Scary huh...


If you have a small business like ours, and you have good health insurance for employees, then you understand that challenge very well, and it does scare you sometimes.

A small business that doesn't offer it. Well, maybe they are more interested in electing someone who understands their desire to stick with the status quo.

I have to say that you surprise me a little, especially you being a guy who learned finance at one of those "fresh water schools." ;-)

Buzz
01-18-2012, 08:14 AM
And as long as we're talking taxes again, I guess it's time to beat my drum again just a little. I don't know where you sit Luvy, but I'm paying 21% +.


http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/02/te022311.html

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/02/img/te07chart2.jpg

menmon
01-18-2012, 08:34 AM
If you have a small business like ours, and you have good health insurance for employees, then you understand that challenge very well, and it does scare you sometimes.

A small business that doesn't offer it. Well, maybe they are more interested in electing someone who understands their desire to stick with the status quo.

I have to say that you surprise me a little, especially you being a guy who learned finance at one of those "fresh water schools." ;-)

Business Week ranked us again #1 - but Fox News says we are stupid liberals that don't understand the real world;)

The comentators on CNBC and their guest tend to agree with the republican rhetoric, but I assure you they will vote for Obama. Showmenship is all it is.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 08:49 AM
No before Gov. Perry gets educated;)


Prior to the federal dept of ED the US was ranked higher in the world for education than it is now!
Education should be local not federal!

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 08:52 AM
No he didn't...that was done long time ago....It is called Medicare, Medicade, Veterens

The other 30% of the system is still owned by insurance companies.

Please do the math on how much you pay for your private healthcare as a percentage of your earnings. Scary huh...

What does your rant have to do with the DNC moving to "BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM" for those high priced sky boxes?
PS. The Carolina Panthers had to give up their opening game being at home for those idiots!

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 09:08 AM
And as long as we're talking taxes again, I guess it's time to beat my drum again just a little. I don't know where you sit Luvy, but I'm paying 21% +.


http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/02/te022311.html

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/02/img/te07chart2.jpg

Forget the charts! Dual income no kids just to start with. That jumps my actual rate due to that bs child credit! Everytime we make a responsible financial choice, like paying down on our mortgage vs going out to dinner we end up paying more in federal and state income taxes.
I'd rather give my money to the bank than the gooberment!

menmon
01-18-2012, 09:20 AM
Prior to the federal dept of ED the US was ranked higher in the world for education than it is now!
Education should be local not federal!

Tell them to send the money back then...good luck with it.

The weakness in our system stems in the home...poor and rich too.

We are producing extremely capable young people, but those who do not embrace the opportunity fail miserably. The sad thing is they don't embrace the opportunity.

Jay Dufour
01-18-2012, 09:37 AM
When I owned a seafood market,a colored preacher said he buys the food stamps from the congregation at 40% ....then buys a bunch of fish for a box dinner they sell at 300% profit.....then split a percentage of that as cash.he makes the 60% off the stamps......then the lions share of the dinner sales.They get the cash to buy goodies with.

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 09:42 AM
Why does it always end with Obama. They have been taking money from you way before Obama and giving it to someone else:rolleyes:

He has not changed to tax code...no I forget he did cut your payroll tax. Who did not want to extend that????

I definitely did NOT want that extended!! The way they paid for that 2 month extension is with a tax on all mortgages from this point forward
for the next 10 years. How rediculous is that! Social Security is going down the drain as is and you want to take away more money from it? The difference in money coming back to the employee is very minimal. For example someone making $50K a year makes $4166.67 a month. The 2% reduction in Social Security tax results in that person taking home only $83 a month extra. That same person wanting to buy a home is now going to have a higher interest rate because of the tax being applied to pay for 2 month extension! This will negate all of that savings in about 6 months and that person will end up paying a lot more for the 2 month extension over the next 10 years of increased mortgage payments. So NO I did not want the extension or even the 1st cut last year.

road kill
01-18-2012, 09:46 AM
I definitely did NOT want that extended!! The way they paid for that 2 month extension is with a tax on all mortgages from this point forward
for the next 10 years. How rediculous is that! Social Security is going down the drain as is and you want to take away more money from it? The difference in money coming back to the employee is very minimal. For example someone making $50K a year makes $4166.67 a month. The 2% reduction in Social Security tax results in that person taking home only $83 a month extra. That same person wanting to buy a home is now going to have a higher interest rate because of the tax being applied to pay for 2 month extension! This will negate all of that savings in about 6 months and that person will end up paying a lot more for the 2 month extension over the next 10 years of increased mortgage payments. So NO I did not want the extension or even the 1st cut last year.

Are you saying that the Obama tax cut is anything but??
In fact, reading your post (and countless other articles on the facts) this is actually an increase??

P-shaw........


RK

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 09:52 AM
The weakness in our system stems in the home...poor and rich too.
.

Bingo! No amount of taxpayer money can fix that problem. Throwing more of the actual taxpayers' hard earned money at the issue can't and won't fix it.

menmon
01-18-2012, 09:55 AM
I definitely did NOT want that extended!! The way they paid for that 2 month extension is with a tax on all mortgages from this point forward
for the next 10 years. How rediculous is that! Social Security is going down the drain as is and you want to take away more money from it? The difference in money coming back to the employee is very minimal. For example someone making $50K a year makes $4166.67 a month. The 2% reduction in Social Security tax results in that person taking home only $83 a month extra. That same person wanting to buy a home is now going to have a higher interest rate because of the tax being applied to pay for 2 month extension! This will negate all of that savings in about 6 months and that person will end up paying a lot more for the 2 month extension over the next 10 years of increased mortgage payments. So NO I did not want the extension or even the 1st cut last year.

Usually I would agree, but this is providing stimulas to the economy that is helping get people back to work that is helping the economy.

You must be more worried about you Team Republicans winning in 2012 other than your fellowman again. Lets not support anything smart if it makes Obama look good! It makes me want to puke!

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 10:01 AM
Are you saying that the Obama tax cut is anything but??
In fact, reading your post (and countless other articles on the facts) this is actually an increase??

P-shaw........


RK

Yes in essence it is a tax increase! It is a tax on homeownership and to pay for the 2 month extension this increase/tax last 10 years. What the Govt. did was increase what is called Guarantee Fees on all conventional mortgages by .4% In other words mortgage lenders will have to increase their interest rates by at least .4% to cover the fee that Fannie and Freddie are going to charge them and that fee is going to be used to pay for the 2 month extension. So every new conventional mortgage loan that comes about from Feb 9th forward will see an increased interest rate compared to what it would have been without the extension being passed. This tax on home ownership has never been done before. The Govt. is also trying to take away the mortgage interest deduction homeowners enjoy in order to pay for other programs/welfare.

menmon
01-18-2012, 10:04 AM
Yes in essence it is a tax increase! It is a tax on homeownership and to pay for the 2 month extension this increase/tax last 10 years. What the Govt. did was increase what is called Guarantee Fees on all conventional mortgages by .4% In other words mortgage lenders will have to increase their interest rates by at least .4% to cover the fee that Fannie and Freddie are going to charge them and that fee is going to be used to pay for the 2 month extension. So every new conventional mortgage loan that comes about from Feb 9th forward will see an increased interest rate compared to what it would have been without the extension being passed. This tax on home ownership has never been done before. The Govt. is also trying to take away the mortgage interest deduction homeowners enjoy in order to pay for other programs/welfare.

Whooptedo!! So mortgage rates are 4.04% now.....they are that low because of your government to begin with, because I would not make a loan for 30 years that cheap no matter how good your credit was.

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 10:18 AM
Your numbers are wrong. The pass through rate from Fannie and Freddie would go to 4.275%. Since mortgage rates move in 1/8 increments and are rounded up the rate on the street would increase to 4.375% on a 30yr fixed rate. What this would mean to the individual, using my income figures from my previous post, is that for a Social Security tax savings over 2 months of $166 dolars they would actually pay $5400 extra in mortgage payments over the 10 year period that the fee increase is in effect. This is assuming that person bought a $150K home and financed it for 30 years. I'm sorry but to spend $5400 to save $166 is idiotic.

As far as the Govt providing us with low interest rates it is the Govt's fault we are in this mess in the first place. Carter started us down this road with the Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks to provide home loans to the poor who could not afford or normally qualify for a home loan. In 1996 and again in 1998 Clinton doubled down on the CRA lending requirements. In 2003 and again in 2005 the mortgage industry pushed for great regulation of Fannie and Freddie and the democratically controlled House Financial Services Committee(Barney Frank and Maxine Waters) shot down all efforts by the Bush Admin and the housing industry to provide for greater regulation of Fannie and Freddie. Yes there were entities within the industry that took advantage of those lax regulations however, if that regulation had been approved then we wouldn't be where we are right now.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 10:19 AM
Whooptedo!! So mortgage rates are 4.04% now.....they are that low because of your government to begin with, because I would not make a loan for 30 years that cheap no matter how good your credit was.


Heck mine is 2.875! Why, because I understood the ins and outs of mortgages and opted for a 7 year arm tied to Tbills not the LIBOR.
7 years ago I paid 5.875. What mortgage crisis other than people being stupid! Stop blaming the banks.

The only thing that sucks is that my mortgage deduction is squat while people get money from the taxpayers for mutiplying like rabbits!

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 10:25 AM
Heck mine is 2.875! Why, because I understood the ins and outs of mortgages and opted for a 7 year arm tied to Tbills not the LIBOR.
7 years ago I paid 5.875. What mortgage crisis other than people being stupid! Stop blaming the banks.

The only thing that sucks is that my mortgage deduction is squat while people get money from the taxpayers for mutiplying like rabbits!

You did good! I did something similar. In 2003 my fixed rate was 6%. I refinanced to a 1yr Arm and bought the rate down to 1%. It was 2.5% at that time. Eversince then I have made my original 6% payment and applied the difference to principle. My rate right now is only 2.75% and over the last 8 years or so I have reduced my principale balance by almost $50K above what I normally would have if I had not refinanced. In doing so I have also taken my 30yr term and reduced it to lest than 10. I will payoff my home in less than 3years from now.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 10:30 AM
Whooptedo!! So mortgage rates are 4.04% now.....they are that low because of your government to begin with, because I would not make a loan for 30 years that cheap no matter how good your credit was.
On the other hand goverment forced banks to make loans that I would never have made based on "THe omunity Reinvestment ACT" better known as pay up to the deadbeats slime or we will screw you!
20% down for everyone!!!

menmon
01-18-2012, 10:30 AM
Your numbers are wrong. The pass through rate from Fannie and Freddie would go to 4.275%. Since mortgage rates move in 1/8 increments and are rounded up the rate on the street would increase to 4.375% on a 30yr fixed rate. What this would mean to the individual, using my income figures from my previous post, is that for a Social Security tax savings over 2 months of $166 dolars they would actually pay $5400 extra in mortgage payments over the 10 year period that the fee increase is in effect. This is assuming that person bought a $150K home and financed it for 30 years. I'm sorry but to spend $5400 to save $166 is idiotic.

As far as the Govt providing us with low interest rates it is the Govt's fault we are in this mess in the first place. Carter started us down this road with the Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks to provide home loans to the poor who could not afford or normally qualify for a home loan. In 1996 and again in 1998 Clinton doubled down on the CRA lending requirements. In 2003 and again in 2005 the mortgage industry pushed for great regulation of Fannie and Freddie and the democratically controlled House Financial Services Committee(Barney Frank and Maxine Waters) shot down all efforts by the Bush Admin and the housing industry to provide for greater regulation of Fannie and Freddie. Yes there were entities within the industry that took advantage of those lax regulations however, if that regulation had been approved then we wouldn't be where we are right now.

You don't get it....this only matters on new mortages, so no existing individual mortage rate went up. Cost of funds went up, so if they pass that on to you with your new mortage will depend if they can get it are not. Please stop getting your twisted facts from who every you are getting them.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 10:40 AM
You did good! I did something similar. In 2003 my fixed rate was 6%. I refinanced to a 1yr Arm and bought the rate down to 1%. It was 2.5% at that time. Eversince then I have made my original 6% payment and applied the difference to principle. My rate right now is only 2.75% and over the last 8 years or so I have reduced my principale balance by almost $50K above what I normally would have if I had not refinanced. In doing so I have also taken my 30yr term and reduced it to lest than 10. I will payoff my home in less than 3years from now.
Yup we still make the original payment! But if we ever get in a jam the actual payment is almost 1/2 of the original payment.
The part that sucks is that my property taxes have doubled and I get nothing for the money ( I now pay for babysitting for the leaches 4 year olds) and my insurance has tripled with zero claims.

road kill
01-18-2012, 10:42 AM
You don't get it....this only matters on new mortages, so no existing individual mortage rate went up. Cost of funds went up, so if they pass that on to you with your new mortage will depend if they can get it are not. Please stop getting your twisted facts from who every you are getting them.

Are claiming sole possession of the truth??:cool:

Awesome!!!!


RK

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 10:43 AM
You don't get it....this only matters on new mortages, so no existing individual mortage rate went up. Cost of funds went up, so if they pass that on to you with your new mortage will depend if they can get it are not. Please stop getting your twisted facts from who every you are getting them.


My rate did not go up but my payment did because I have to pay for babysitting for welfare slimne and illegals 4 year olds! Socialism at its best!

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 10:49 AM
You don't get it....this only matters on new mortages, so no existing individual mortage rate went up. Cost of funds went up, so if they pass that on to you with your new mortage will depend if they can get it are not. Please stop getting your twisted facts from who every you are getting them.

Actually if you will read my statements I am saying all new conventional loans. As far as my info is concerned it is 100% correct and just to give you a bit about my back ground I've been in the mortgage business for 20 years and have participated in and been on many Federal and Industry related boards and task forces. I'm up on the Hill at least 7-10 times a year and work with various members of Congress and the Senate concerning housing issues regularly. I've also testified before Congress in support fo the VA Home Loan Program on various issues. So I think I a bit of an expertise in this matter

menmon
01-18-2012, 10:49 AM
Are claiming sole possession of the truth??:cool:

Awesome!!!!


RK

Haha haha:p

paul young
01-18-2012, 10:52 AM
Actually if you will read my statements I am saying all new conventional loans. As far as my info is concerned it is 100% correct and just to give you a bit about my back ground I've been in the mortgage business for 20 years and have participated in and been on many Federal and Industry related boards and task forces. I'm up on the Hill at least 7-10 times a year and work with various members of Congress and the Senate concerning housing issues regularly. I've also testified before Congress in support fo the VA Home Loan Program on various issues. So I think I a bit of an expertise in this matter

.....so that would make you part of the problem.

Gerry Clinchy
01-18-2012, 10:57 AM
As a RealtorŪ ... in today's world the majority of people do not stay in their homes to the end of their 30-year mortgage. They sell that home, pay off the mortgage, and buy another home with a new mortgage. The average is that most people move every 7 years.

From observation, older people who are going to be downsizing, will often pay cash for their "final" home by selling their previous larger home. However, this increase in cost of mortgages will impact those who use reverse mortgages to assist in paying the ever-increasing property taxes that fixed incomes cannot sustain,

Younger people just starting out, or up-sizing, will be getting new mortgages.

The net effect is to make every home to be sold more expensive in terms of monthly payments due to interest. And, as mentioned, these interest rates won't stay this low forever. It will become more painful as interest rates begin to climb.

When interest rates and property taxes make the monthly payment go up, as opposed to the principal amount of the mortgage payment, sellers are compelled to reduce the selling price. Yup, home prices, in some cases, are now below market value already, so a price decrease is just what the doctor ordered to help everyone out.

menmon
01-18-2012, 10:59 AM
Actually if you will read my statements I am saying all new conventional loans. As far as my info is concerned it is 100% correct and just to give you a bit about my back ground I've been in the mortgage business for 20 years and have participated in and been on many Federal and Industry related boards and task forces. I'm up on the Hill at least 7-10 times a year and work with various members of Congress and the Senate concerning housing issues regularly. I've also testified before Congress in support fo the VA Home Loan Program on various issues. So I think I a bit of an expertise in this matter

So you are one of them that wreaked the economy? Bonus, bonus, bonus!!!!! Does not matter if they can pay it back....I got it done and some investment banker was able to sell it to some ditz without a clue.

My point is that the tax increase in insignificant to the borrower, but a little extra gingle in the pockets of people that might go out to eat a few more time or buy something they would not have otherwise is good for our economy.

More Tea Party thinking....will just take us down. It is good to question how money gets spent, but to take a blind position to not spend on anything is not the answer.

What works is everyone gets some of the pie and everyone prospers. What does not work is a few hoard it.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 11:03 AM
As a RealtorŪ ...
When property taxes make the monthly payment go up, as opposed to the principal amount of the mortgage payment,.


NObody ever talks about the property tax aspect! MY property taxes have doubled since I bought the house but everyone just blames the banks for the mortgage payment crisis. The bank has had zero negative impact on my mortgage payment but property taxes are a major impact on the total payment.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 11:05 AM
So you are one of them that wreaked the economy? Bonus, bonus, bonus!!!!! Does not matter if they can pay it back....I got it done and some investment banker was able to sell it to some ditz without a clue.

My point is that the tax increase in insignificant to the borrower, but a little extra gingle in the pockets of people that might go out to eat a few more time or buy something they would not have otherwise is good for our economy.

More Tea Party thinking....will just take us down. It is good to question how money gets spent, but to take a blind position to not spend on anything is not the answer.

What works is everyone gets some of the pie and everyone prospers. What does not work is a few hoard it.
Get a grip my property taxes have doubled and I get ZERO for it. I just pay for the leaches.

Gerry Clinchy
01-18-2012, 11:09 AM
Temporary remedies really don't work that well. Two months is pretty darn temporary. Even one year is temporary in the larger picture of things.

As has been previously mentioned, most businesses have to plan on a 5-year basis or longer. The temporary nature of these "tax holidays" actually creates even more uncertainty which would cause businesses to hoard the savings because the future is still so unpredictable.

If they need to spend these temporary savings to meet more Federal mandates later, this money will not be invested to create more wealth. It will just be used to meet the Federal mandates (EPA, OSHA, higher taxes, health care mandates, etc). It will not produce more product, just increase the cost of the products that are produced.

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 11:13 AM
So you are one of them that wreaked the economy? Bonus, bonus, bonus!!!!! Does not matter if they can pay it back....I got it done and some investment banker was able to sell it to some ditz without a clue.

My point is that the tax increase in insignificant to the borrower, but a little extra gingle in the pockets of people that might go out to eat a few more time or buy something they would not have otherwise is good for our economy.

More Tea Party thinking....will just take us down. It is good to question how money gets spent, but to take a blind position to not spend on anything is not the answer.

What works is everyone gets some of the pie and everyone prospers. What does not work is a few hoard it.

Nope I actually was part of the industry that pushed for greater regulation of Fannie and Freddie!! The industry pushed back against Fannie and Freddie's CRA requirements because of the risk. Those that are gone IE; Countrywide, Washington Mutual and Indy Mac are the ones who took advantage of the lax regulation. The industry has also fought to keep Govt. from relqaxing regulations even now. Atty Gen. Holder is trying to force banks to loosen regulations back to pre-07 guidelines and even more so to lend again to those that cannot afford or qualify for a home loan. In other words they are trying to take the industry back down the same road that wrecked the economy in the first place. The tax increase is not insignificant by any means. If you think that a $5400 tax to save $166 over a 2 month time frame is insignificant then you will never see or recognize the facts associated with this issue.

menmon
01-18-2012, 11:21 AM
Nope I actually was part of the industry that pushed for greater regulation of Fannie and Freddie!! The industry pushed back against Fannie and Freddie's CRA requirements because of the risk. Those that are gone IE; Countrywide, Washington Mutual and Indy Mac are the ones who took advantage of the lax regulation. The industry has also fought to keep Govt. from relqaxing regulations even now. Atty Gen. Holder is trying to force banks to loosen regulations back to pre-07 guidelines and even more so to lend again to those that cannot afford or qualify for a home loan. In other words they are trying to take the industry back down the same road that wrecked the economy in the first place. The tax increase is not insignificant by any means. If you think that a $5400 tax to save $166 over a 2 month time frame is insignificant then you will never see or recognize the facts associated with this issue.

No they are not. The problem is most people are underwater in their valuation, so they can not take advantage of refinancing. These numbers you are giving... you act as if they are finite. $5400 is a big mortage, so it must be a big house...maybe that guy that owns that house can share a little and give to a brother in need. I like the stats that are coming out week to week...so lets get families working then we can start talking about pulling the plug on the economy.

menmon
01-18-2012, 11:23 AM
Get a grip my property taxes have doubled and I get ZERO for it. I just pay for the leaches.

Property taxes are not federal and you can deduct them against your income, a good thing. Now if I was a Tea Partier, I would tell you that I don't owe you that deduction. Thank God the Tea Party is not making the decisions or you would be sh%t out of luck;)

Jason Glavich
01-18-2012, 11:26 AM
Forget the charts! Dual income no kids just to start with. That jumps my actual rate due to that bs child credit! Everytime we make a responsible financial choice, like paying down on our mortgage vs going out to dinner we end up paying more in federal and state income taxes.
I'd rather give my money to the bank than the gooberment!

I agree, 2 incomes, no kids, financially means that you are taxed to the hilt. I actually did the Tax calculator just to see how much we would gain if we had 5 kids right now, the answer is nothing. paying 60k in taxes is rediculous.

Now on the flip side if I was not able to have deductions like donations, home interest, real estate taxes etc I would pay a lot more.

But then again if i could just be put into a resonable tax bracket and the Gov could curb their spending.... Oh nevermind.

Screwed either way here, tax deductions are a plus, the high % I pay is a negative, without the deductions in the same % is a negative, lower % without deductions could work for me.

Jason Glavich
01-18-2012, 11:29 AM
I'd like a reasonable reason form the liberals as to why the GOOBERMENT should take my hard earned money and give it tp the welfare slime?
WHY do I pay for my house and the welare slimes house?
Why do I pay for my heat and the WELFARE SLIMES' heat?
Why do I pay for my food and the WELFARE SLIMES" food?
Why do I pay to babysit their kids?

Now tell me why I bother to work? Seems like I get screwed at every turn!

THEY BREED THEM THEY CAN FEED THEN ETC!

Oh yeah you can say I am a terrible person but I just want to keep what I worked for!

You have to work because they would not pay for you to have the same benefit.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 11:34 AM
Property taxes are not federal and you can deduct them against your income, a good thing. Now if I was a Tea Partier, I would tell you that I don't owe you that deduction. Thank God the Tea Party is not making the decisions or you would be sh%t out of luck;)

I was talking about total mortgage payments. As you know many people who have less than 20% down have their property taxes as part of the payment. Everyone is screaming that people can't pay the mortgage because of the banks. I simply said that if I had a fixed mortgage all along my payment would have had a large jump that has ZERO to do with the bank.
Since I knew what I was doing and had a 7 year arm tied to Tbills not the LIBOR my payment has gone down even though property taxes doubled and homeowners tripled. The bank is not my problem property taxes and state screw those that don;t llive on the coast insurance regs are the issue.
As for deductions that simply allows me to keep what I earned!
Get rid of refundable child credits that give my hard earned money to somone who already pays zero!

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 11:39 AM
No they are not. The problem is most people are underwater in their valuation, so they can not take advantage of refinancing. These numbers you are giving... you act as if they are finite. $5400 is a big mortage, so it must be a big house...maybe that guy that owns that house can share a little and give to a brother in need. I like the stats that are coming out week to week...so lets get families working then we can start talking about pulling the plug on the economy.

To clarify my numbers just so you will understand.

$150,000.00 mortgage at 30yrs 3.875% rate. Principle and interest is $720.5 per month. After the .4% increase scheduled to come about in Feb. the rate for that same mortgage originated after Feb would go to 4.375%. Principle and Interest pmt would be $765.03. The difference is $44.51 a month in the house payment. I rounded it up to $45 to make the math simple. This increase in the Guaranty Fee is scheduled to last 10 years. Although in reality this increased interest rate for this loan will last for the life of the loan. I am only counting the 10 year period though. So 10yrs = 120 months. 120 x $45 = $5400. So that is how I came up with that number. If you were to count that increased payment for the complete life of the 30yr loan the number would actually come up to $16,200. Now if that same person made $50K a year/$4166.67 a month the 2 month savings = $166. So in essence this person would be paying $5400 over a 10 year period to save $166 in Social Security tax. This is how I came up with my numbers. Not a big mortgage and not a large salary either. This is also the average loan amount in my area and a comparable salary for somebody purchasing a home in that price range.

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 11:42 AM
I was talking about total mortgage payments. As you know many people who have less than 20% down have their property taxes as part of the payment. Everyone is screaming that people can't pay the mortgage because of the banks. I simply said that if I had a fixed mortgage all along my payment would have had a large jump that has ZERO to do with the bank.
Since I knew what I was doing and had a 7 year arm tied to Tbills not the LIBOR my payment has gone down even though property taxes doubled and homeowners tripled. The bank is not my problem property taxes and state screw those that don;t llive on the coast insurance regs are the issue.
As for deductions that simply allows me to keep what I earned!
Get rid of refundable child credits that give my hard earned money to somone who already pays zero!

Along those lines get rid of the Earned Income Tax Credit. Not only do these people get all of the income taxes they pay refunded to them they also receive this in addition to that refund. Just another form of welfare.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 11:44 AM
Along those lines get rid of the Earned Income Tax Credit. Not only do these people get all of the income taxes they pay refunded to them they also receive this in addition to that refund. Just another form of welfare.

Couldn't agree more! I spent many years having to process these credits thru the payroll system and I saw those perfect impactical nails every day!

Tman22
01-18-2012, 11:50 AM
If you want your fair share then don;t get married just live together. Have kids, let the women apply for welfare and free medical. Then all your money will be free for hunting.

menmon
01-18-2012, 11:56 AM
If you want your fair share then don;t get married just live together. Have kids, let the women apply for welfare and free medical. Then all your money will be free for hunting.

Now this guy has the answer!!! I like him:D

menmon
01-18-2012, 12:02 PM
To clarify my numbers just so you will understand.

$150,000.00 mortgage at 30yrs 3.875% rate. Principle and interest is $720.5 per month. After the .4% increase scheduled to come about in Feb. the rate for that same mortgage originated after Feb would go to 4.375%. Principle and Interest pmt would be $765.03. The difference is $44.51 a month in the house payment. I rounded it up to $45 to make the math simple. This increase in the Guaranty Fee is scheduled to last 10 years. Although in reality this increased interest rate for this loan will last for the life of the loan. I am only counting the 10 year period though. So 10yrs = 120 months. 120 x $45 = $5400. So that is how I came up with that number. If you were to count that increased payment for the complete life of the 30yr loan the number would actually come up to $16,200. Now if that same person made $50K a year/$4166.67 a month the 2 month savings = $166. So in essence this person would be paying $5400 over a 10 year period to save $166 in Social Security tax. This is how I came up with my numbers. Not a big mortgage and not a large salary either. This is also the average loan amount in my area and a comparable salary for somebody purchasing a home in that price range.

So they taxed your industry....If I remember right the Rebublican House had a big say in what was done. Kind of like when they were asked to cut spending.

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 12:05 PM
If you want your fair share then don;t get married just live together. Have kids, let the women apply for welfare and free medical. Then all your money will be free for hunting.

My fair share is what I EARN to provide for my family and no others. I paid my way through college. I served my country in the military. I started my own business and employ 18 people. I pay my medical insurance and provide those benefits to my employees. I pay for my kids education and I give back to my church and community. The only thing I expect back from anyone is a honest days work, my kids to study make good grades and show respect and for others to treat me as I treat them. I do not want any form of welfare and even though I am eligible for VA disability benefits becaue of my time in the military I refuse to apply for them. I consider myself to be able bodied and I bust my rear end day in and day out to do what I can to provide for me and my family. Now when I say "I" that includes my wife who is and equal contributer to our household and I would never think of her otherwise.

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 12:06 PM
If you want your fair share then don;t get married just live together. Have kids, let the women apply for welfare and free medical. Then all your money will be free for hunting.
And sadly that is how the system works!

Buzz
01-18-2012, 12:14 PM
Your numbers are wrong. The pass through rate from Fannie and Freddie would go to 4.275%. Since mortgage rates move in 1/8 increments and are rounded up the rate on the street would increase to 4.375% on a 30yr fixed rate. What this would mean to the individual, using my income figures from my previous post, is that for a Social Security tax savings over 2 months of $166 dolars they would actually pay $5400 extra in mortgage payments over the 10 year period that the fee increase is in effect. This is assuming that person bought a $150K home and financed it for 30 years. I'm sorry but to spend $5400 to save $166 is idiotic.

As far as the Govt providing us with low interest rates it is the Govt's fault we are in this mess in the first place. Carter started us down this road with the Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks to provide home loans to the poor who could not afford or normally qualify for a home loan. In 1996 and again in 1998 Clinton doubled down on the CRA lending requirements. In 2003 and again in 2005 the mortgage industry pushed for great regulation of Fannie and Freddie and the democratically controlled House Financial Services Committee(Barney Frank and Maxine Waters) shot down all efforts by the Bush Admin and the housing industry to provide for greater regulation of Fannie and Freddie. Yes there were entities within the industry that took advantage of those lax regulations however, if that regulation had been approved then we wouldn't be where we are right now.


That is all conservative Rush Limbaugh BS. What really escalated the problem was all the flippers, the ones buying "real-estate investments" with the intention of selling for a quick gain. When housing prices began to fall, they ran for the exits & defaulted.

caryalsobrook
01-18-2012, 12:21 PM
My fair share is what I EARN to provide for my family and no others. I paid my way through college. I served my country in the military. I started my own business and employ 18 people. I pay my medical insurance and provide those benefits to my employees. I pay for my kids education and I give back to my church and community. The only thing I expect back from anyone is a honest days work, my kids to study make good grades and show respect and for others to treat me as I treat them. I do not want any form of welfare and even though I am eligible for VA disability benefits becaue of my time in the military I refuse to apply for them. I consider myself to be able bodied and I bust my rear end day in and day out to do what I can to provide for me and my family. Now when I say "I" that includes my wife who is and equal contributer to our household and I would never think of her otherwise.

I think Tman22 was just kidding, at least I hope he was. I see you say you run your own business. Do you do that part time and work for a bank that makes 30 year fixed loans that they keep and don't discount? If you do make those kinds of loans then let me know what bank you work for so that I will be sure NOT to own any stock in it!

Buzz
01-18-2012, 12:22 PM
No they are not. The problem is most people are underwater in their valuation, so they can not take advantage of refinancing. These numbers you are giving... you act as if they are finite. $5400 is a big mortage, so it must be a big house...maybe that guy that owns that house can share a little and give to a brother in need. I like the stats that are coming out week to week...so lets get families working then we can start talking about pulling the plug on the economy.


You have to take time to read what he said closer. I think he was saying that this was the increased cost over 10 years to the borrower.

I read that the increase was 0.1%, not 0.4% Jim, can you point me to documentation of the increase?

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 12:25 PM
I think Tman22 was just kidding, at least I hope he was. I see you say you run your own business. Do you do that part time and work for a bank that makes 30 year fixed loans that they keep and don't discount? If you do make those kinds of loans then let me know what bank you work for so that I will be sure NOT to own any stock in it!

It took Tman22 comment as being sarcastic and wasn't chastising him at all. Actually I own a mortgage company. I do this full time and have so for 20 years. I'm a bit confused by the statement "keep and don't discount"?

duckheads
01-18-2012, 12:25 PM
Nice try Jim but you have to keep in mind that "liberalism is a mental disorder".

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 12:31 PM
You have to take time to read what he said closer. I think he was saying that this was the increased cost over 10 years to the borrower.

I read that the increase was 0.1%, not 0.4% Jim, can you point me to documentation of the increase?

The Guarantee Fee increase is 40 basis points. What will happen is that the pass through rate to Fannie and Freddie Seller/Servicers will increase by that amount. Meaning that interest rates will also increase by that amount.

You are right in that I was talking about the increased cost over a 10 year period. Thanks for also bringing that to light.

menmon
01-18-2012, 12:44 PM
The Guarantee Fee increase is 40 basis points. What will happen is that the pass through rate to Fannie and Freddie Seller/Servicers will increase by that amount. Meaning that interest rates will also increase by that amount.

You are right in that I was talking about the increased cost over a 10 year period. Thanks for also bringing that to light.

So people pay tax....I'm sure this will not stop them from getting new morgages. I'm sure this tax has more to do with loses on past mortgages than it does funding the payroll tax holiday.

caryalsobrook
01-18-2012, 12:45 PM
It took Tman22 comment as being sarcastic and wasn't chastising him at all. Actually I own a mortgage company. I do this full time and have so for 20 years. I'm a bit confused by the statement "keep and don't discount"?

i built a house in 2004. construction loan through bank and then 15 year mortgage for about 35% of cost of house. Bank sold the loan the day I closed it. A little over 5% and sold to WM and now Chase has it.

As I understand it, Fanny Mae had about 80% of all home loans in 2008 and now has about 90%, leaving only about 10% of all home loans held by others.

Never had a long term fixed rate mortgage until this one. Have owned at one time or other 5 farms, 3 housed, 2 offices, and a metal rental building, all 5 year baloons. Other than my 1st office, I never had a debt more than 50% on any of them. Did sell in order to buy at times. Never owned a house till I had paid off my 1st office.

Tried to live by my father's words, "spend less than you make" and "it is not how much you make it is how much you save". Not very fancy but it worked for my father who had an 11th grade education. Makes me sort of fiscally conservative I suspect. Sort of think that it has worked for me too.:)

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 12:50 PM
That is all conservative Rush Limbaugh BS. What really escalated the problem was all the flippers, the ones buying "real-estate investments" with the intention of selling for a quick gain. When housing prices began to fall, they ran for the exits & defaulted.

This was a problem and it did have an affect. Although not as great as many have said. There are neighborhoods in Vegas that are almost completely empty. They may have 200-300 homes in them and maybe 10% are owner occupied. The rest were bought by flippers speculating that the values would increase quickly and they could flip them. In Vegas for example appreciation rates were coming in at 30-40% every 6 months. Absolutely rediculous! In August of 07 the bubble burst and the rest is a combination of history, present and future. This was a problem in many of the Sand states, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and parts of California. Florida has been espicially hard hit by loan fraud. The rust belt, Michigan, Ohio and the Pittsburgh region of Pennsylvania have had bad economies for almost a decade and that is due to their respective governments economic policies over the last 15 or so years. All of this was magnified by my previous policy statments concerning the CRA and the failure of the Govt. to properly regulate Fannie and Freddie. If you look back to late 2003 and early 2004 you will see news articles about accounting irregularities at Fannie and then spreading to Freddie. This was a result of Clinton pushing both GSE's to almost double their CRA holdings. The GSe's passed those requirements to the depositories who had option but to comply. That is when the industry pushed for greater regulation of the GSE's. Barney Frank, Maxine Waters and Chris Dodd shot all of that down in 03 and 05. I sat in on a couple of those committe hearings and was there to hear it with my own ears. Maxine Waters said that the GSE's were doing fine and a model of quality lending. She saw no reason to place more stringent regulation upon them. Barney Frank basically said the same thing. By the way his significant other at the time worked for Fannie. So this isn't Rush Limbaugh BS.

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 12:59 PM
i built a house in 2004. construction loan through bank and then 15 year mortgage for about 35% of cost of house. Bank sold the loan the day I closed it. A little over 5% and sold to WM and now Chase has it.

As I understand it, Fanny Mae had about 80% of all home loans in 2008 and now has about 90%, leaving only about 10% of all home loans held by others.

Never had a long term fixed rate mortgage until this one. Have owned at one time or other 5 farms, 3 housed, 2 offices, and a metal rental building, all 5 year baloons. Other than my 1st office, I never had a debt more than 50% on any of them. Did sell in order to buy at times. Never owned a house till I had paid off my 1st office.

Tried to live by my father's words, "spend less than you make" and "it is not how much you make it is how much you save". Not very fancy but it worked for my father who had an 11th grade education. Makes me sort of fiscally conservative I suspect. Sort of think that it has worked for me too.:)

I agree with your Fathers words!

As far as Fannie and Freddie holdings you are close but not quite. The Federal Govt. provides liquidity and or funding to about 90% of all home loans. This include Conventional(Fannie/Freddie), VA, FHA and USDA home loans. Fannie/Freddie covers about 60% of home loans, FHA covers close to 30%, VA and USDA cover the rest. There is close to 10% in private liquidity in the market. A lot of this is financing jumbo loans, those loan amounts above $417K. The industry is trying to bring privatge capital back into the market. The Dept. of HUD is also trying to reduce the FHA market share. This is needed to keep the FHA loan program viable. There is legislation and private industry recommendations to completely do away with Fannie and Freddie as they exist now. Every quarter they both eat up 6-10 Billion dollars of taxpayer money. Hopefully these recommendations will be acted upon and this will bring private capital into the market and help to make it more stable.

Jim Danis
01-18-2012, 01:07 PM
I want to apologize to luvmylabs23139 for basically jacking his thread. I am sorry for that.

zeus3925
01-18-2012, 07:18 PM
If you want your fair share then don;t get married just live together. Have kids, let the women apply for welfare and free medical. Then all your money will be free for hunting.

Not so fast, Tman, because the first thing that would happen is the state would move to establish paternity if they haven't done so already. Then they would go after you for support. Up to a third of your income could go toward the upkeep of just one of your kids. Moving to Canada is no option. They'd come after you with an URESA petition. There goes your hunting money. Moving to Paraguay might be your only option!:D

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2012, 08:18 PM
I want to apologize to luvmylabs23139 for basically jacking his thread. I am sorry for that.

SHE doesn't mind. This is POTUS, we rarely stay on topic!:p

zeus3925
01-18-2012, 09:05 PM
Not so fast, Tman, because the first thing that would happen is the state would move to establish paternity if they haven't done so already. Then they would go after you for support. Up to a third of your income could go toward the upkeep of just one of your kids. Moving to Canada is no option. They'd come after you with an URESA petition. There goes your hunting money. Moving to Paraguay might be your only option!:D

PS--you would also have to carry your kid's health insurance and trips to the orthodontist.