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Franco
01-25-2012, 08:38 PM
For the Newt fans out there, he suggested that Lewis Lehrman head a commission to determine the effects of returning to the Gold Standard.

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http://www.thegoldstandardnow.org/images/stories/lewiselehrman.jpg
Lewis E. Lehrman has written widely about economic and monetary policy. He has co-authored the book Money and the Coming World Order (1976) with renowned MIT Economist Charles Kindleberger and others. Lehrman has written about economics in publications such as Harper's, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Weekly Standard, Crisis, Policy Review and National Review. His writings about monetary economics earned him an appointment by President Ronald Reagan to the Presidential Gold Commission in 1981. Along with Congressman Ron Paul, Lewis Lehrman collaborated on a minority report of the commission, which was published as The Case for Gold (1982).

As Mr Lehrman has pointed out, gold is the only standard as set by our Constitution.

Uncle Bill
01-26-2012, 01:41 PM
Another tome you'd appreciate, and slightly newer than the ones you've mentioned, is the 2004 publication of: "The collapse of the Dollar, and how to Profit from it."..by James Turk & John Rubino.

They have updated it through 2007, along with some later info that really praises your candidate. Especially the final few pages. It also has an excellant brief historical compilation of where our money began, as well as a few other nation's monetary systems and their rise and fall because of them.

UB

www.currencybooks.com (http://www.currencybooks.com) Search for James turk. Paperback is 14.95

Franco
01-26-2012, 02:05 PM
Another tome you'd appreciate, and slightly newer than the ones you've mentioned, is the 2004 publication of: "The collapse of the Dollar, and how to Profit from it."..by James Turk & John Rubino.

They have updated it through 2007, along with some later info that really praises your candidate. Especially the final few pages. It also has an excellant brief historical compilation of where our money began, as well as a few other nation's monetary systems and their rise and fall because of them.

UB

www.currencybooks.com (http://www.currencybooks.com) Search for James turk. Paperback is 14.95

I'll buy the paperback, thanks.

The more I reserach this issue, the more I am convinced that it is the only sane monetary policy. It would force the USA to live within our means and would eliminate a high percentage of wasteful Federal spending. More important, it would return the Dollar to the standard by which all countries aspire. It could be the single most important step in securing our prosperity for the future.

Bankers would hate it but, they'll just have to get over it. ;-)

Buzz
01-26-2012, 03:27 PM
As Mr Lehrman has pointed out, gold is the only standard as set by our Constitution.


I bet there has not been one single advance in economic theory since the 1700's.

Maybe I should discard all of the electrical engineering books sitting back over on my shelf and go to an antique book store to find out what they were teaching back in 1776!

caryalsobrook
01-26-2012, 03:33 PM
I bet there has not been one single advance in economic theory since the 1700's.

Maybe I should discard all of the electrical engineering books sitting back over on my shelf and go to an antique book store to find out what they were teaching back in 1776!
Oh we have had TREMENDOUS advances. If somebody doesn't believe me just take a look at Italy and Greece. Also nice that we have toilets that don't flush and light bulbs that barely work outside in cold weather. Great advances:rolleyes:

Franco
01-26-2012, 03:54 PM
I bet there has not been one single advance in economic theory since the 1700's.

Maybe I should discard all of the electrical engineering books sitting back over on my shelf and go to an antique book store to find out what they were teaching back in 1776!

Sure there has, it is called Austrian Economics. ;-)

Problem is, politicians avoid that system because they can't buy votes with it and it would make them accountable for thier actions.

Uncle Bill
01-26-2012, 05:01 PM
Out of curiosity, have you any ideas you might proffer as to what the gold standard might now be? It certainly can't be at the level it was when Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard. My guess is it would have to be in the $2500-$5000 category for it to even be viable. How many bankers would go for that, and would they even have the desire to pony up enough to back the trillions of bucks they'd need to comply?

Back when RP was proposing we return to the gold standard, even subscribed to his newsletters, which I mostly agreed with at the time, he recognized getting the economy back onto a gold standard in that Nixon era of 1971, $35/oz was preposterous. Especially since it was well on the way towards $850 by '79. We were buying western belt buckles right out of the western clothing stores and taking them to the gold/silver buyers and doubling our money, while paying full retail to the western clothing store. It was just crazy.

That's why while RP has a legitimate story to sell, getting there will be a completely different ball of wax. But, FWIW, it would be an interesting question to ask him sometime.

UB

Franco
01-26-2012, 06:02 PM
Out of curiosity, have you any ideas you might proffer as to what the gold standard might now be? It certainly can't be at the level it was when Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard. My guess is it would have to be in the $2500-$5000 category for it to even be viable. How many bankers would go for that, and would they even have the desire to pony up enough to back the trillions of bucks they'd need to comply?

Back when RP was proposing we return to the gold standard, even subscribed to his newsletters, which I mostly agreed with at the time, he recognized getting the economy back onto a gold standard in that Nixon era of 1971, $35/oz was preposterous. Especially since it was well on the way towards $850 by '79. We were buying western belt buckles right out of the western clothing stores and taking them to the gold/silver buyers and doubling our money, while paying full retail to the western clothing store. It was just crazy.

That's why while RP has a legitimate story to sell, getting there will be a completely different ball of wax. But, FWIW, it would be an interesting question to ask him sometime.

UB

That would depend on how much gold we are holding. If we still have vast amounts and with gold at an alltime high, it shouldn't be that difficult. On the other hand, if we have shipped our gold abroad to pay our debt, then yes it would be nearly impossible.

cpj
01-26-2012, 07:03 PM
If i'm not mistaken, if you take the world's debt divided by known above ground gold, gold's price is approx. $7k per ounce. I believe I've heard Jim Rickards say this in recent interviews. James Turk has a bunch of great interviews on YouTube. Everything I hear Lehrman say lately makes sense. Newts talking about a gold standard because it sounds good, he'd never do it as president.

Franco
01-26-2012, 07:19 PM
Gold is around $1,800. an ounce, minted.

Anyone want to speculate what the vaule would be if we did return to the Gold Standard?

JDogger
01-26-2012, 07:31 PM
Yes. Let's return to the gold standard. :rolleyes: Instead of Repulicans and Democrats we can all become leprechauns and pirates.

"Me gold", "Me gold" regards, JD

PS As for me, I count my wealth in ungulates, (I can eat'em), and retrievers, (menu items elsewhere) not so much here as other places, but they do bring home the meat! :)

Is there a "gold bubble" ?

cpj
01-26-2012, 11:01 PM
No, there isn't a gold bubble. Major investment banks are predicting $2200-2800 gold by the end of the year. Gold's bubble won't burst until our financial problems are solved. See that happening anytime soon? The dollar is the world's reserve currency and is backed by nothing. What happens to the world when the dollar collapses?

JDogger
01-26-2012, 11:24 PM
No, there isn't a gold bubble. Major investment banks are predicting $2200-2800 gold by the end of the year. Gold's bubble won't burst until our financial problems are solved. See that happening anytime soon? The dollar is the world's reserve currency and is backed by nothing. What happens to the world when the dollar collapses?

I will withhold any reply, pending any other input. Have a good weekend. JD:)

Franco
01-26-2012, 11:46 PM
No, there isn't a gold bubble. Major investment banks are predicting $2200-2800 gold by the end of the year. Gold's bubble won't burst until our financial problems are solved. See that happening anytime soon? The dollar is the world's reserve currency and is backed by nothing. What happens to the world when the dollar collapses?

Bingo!

By getting off the Gold Standard, we have financed a phoney fantasy over the last 40 years that has finally caught up and now we can't pay the piper unless we change our monetary policy.

JDogger
01-27-2012, 12:14 AM
Ok.
Say any given country with debt, (it ain't just us folks) decides to dump their gold stocks on the market? What happens when there is a sudden influx ? JD

Any inflated values might just be a bubble....EH?

Gold looks good as jewelery, and can buy you some fluff, but if the reserves get dumped...watch out.

And it ain't just OUR financial problems, ya know.

Franco
01-27-2012, 12:25 AM
Ok.
Say any given country with debt, (it ain't just us folks) decides to dump their gold stocks on the market? What happens when there is a sudden influx ? JD

Any inflated values might just be a bubble....EH?

Gold looks good as jewelery, and can buy you some fluff, but if the reserves get dumped...watch out.

And it ain't just OUR financial problems, ya know.

The increase in the value of gold is because people have lost confidence in unbacked worthless paper. As cjp pointed out, gold will continue to increase until we put a realistic budget and deficit reduction plan into place.

Gold is real value, paper is worthless. Can't have a sound government built on phoney money.

Again, remember that the USSR collapsed because they could not determine the price of bread. WE are in danger because we can't determine the price of money! With Gold backing, the gov is not allowed to speculate and the value of money would be determined!

cpj
01-27-2012, 06:02 AM
Can you name any country who has dumped their gold onto the market due to debt problems? England sold the majority of their gold in the '80's, I believe in the $200/oz range. Great move! Over the last several years governments all over the world have been net buyers of gold.Why aren't EU members selling their gold now to pay down debts? From what I am seeing they keep issueing worthless bond paper.

Buzz
01-27-2012, 06:38 AM
The increase in the value of gold is because people have lost confidence in unbacked worthless paper. As cjp pointed out, gold will continue to increase until we put a realistic budget and deficit reduction plan into place.

Gold is real value, paper is worthless. Can't have a sound government built on phoney money.

Again, remember that the USSR collapsed because they could not determine the price of bread. WE are in danger because we can't determine the price of money! With Gold backing, the gov is not allowed to speculate and the value of money would be determined!

If the budget was the reason for high gold prices, then why don't the markets demand high rates on US Treasuries? Seems that rates are at historic lows.

The loonies keep on inflating that bubble. Buying gold for fear of inflation in an economy with risk if deflation. :rolleyes:

Franco
01-27-2012, 07:06 AM
If the budget was the reason for high gold prices, then why don't the markets demand high rates on US Treasuries? Seems that rates are at historic lows.

The loonies keep on inflating that bubble. Buying gold for fear of inflation in an economy with risk if deflation. :rolleyes:

The reason folks are buying gold in record quantities is because they think they are hedging against a total collapse of the Dollar and our government.

Not too long ago, my neighbor asked me if I thought gold was a good investment. I said, no. Because even if one held gold that was minted into Pieces of Eight, where would one be able to spend it? If the dollar collapsed, all retail would shut down. That he wouldn't be able to walk into a grocery store and buy food because they too would be closed. I suggested that he stock up on fertilizer, seed and ammo.

Now, he too has an RP sign in his front yard;-)

cpj
01-27-2012, 07:18 AM
Buzz, the debt is the reason for the skyrocketing price of gold, not the budget. I saw a graph a couple of weeks ago that showed two lines. One was our debt and the other was the price of gold. They rose across the graph like dance partners. Franco, you know the answer to your scenario, Silver!

road kill
01-27-2012, 07:24 AM
If the budget was the reason for high gold prices, then why don't the markets demand high rates on US Treasuries? Seems that rates are at historic lows.

The loonies keep on inflating that bubble. Buying gold for fear of inflation in an economy with risk if deflation. :rolleyes:

Which budget are you speaking of???

I was unaware we had one??!!??!!

Correct me if i'm wrong (and I'm not) it's been over 1,000 days since we had a budget, hasn't it??




RK

Buzz
01-27-2012, 07:43 AM
Buzz, the debt is the reason for the skyrocketing price of gold, not the budget. I saw a graph a couple of weeks ago that showed two lines. One was our debt and the other was the price of gold. They rose across the graph like dance partners. Franco, you know the answer to your scenario, Silver!

So, the debt then.

If the debt is driving the price of gold, then why is the market buying treasuries that are paying historically low yields?

Buzz
01-27-2012, 07:44 AM
Which budget are you speaking of???

I was unaware we had one??!!??!!

Correct me if i'm wrong (and I'm not) it's been over 1,000 days since we had a budget, hasn't it??




RK


A little nit picky this morning huh? OK, as I said above then, substitute debt for where I said budget.

road kill
01-27-2012, 07:47 AM
A little nit picky this morning huh? OK, as I said above then, substitute debt for where I said budget.
No more than normal......;-)


I see what you meant now.

I wish everyone knew what I meant, even just once in a great while.
OK, maybe even just once!!:rolleyes:

RK

Buzz
01-27-2012, 07:58 AM
No more than normal......;-)


I see what you meant now.

I wish everyone knew what I meant, even just once in a great while.
OK, maybe even just once!!:rolleyes:

RK

I think I get what you mean, at least now and then.

Hey, I'm supposed to be working. And I have to swing by home and pick up my daughter and drop her off at school in a little while! Over and out!

Franco
01-27-2012, 08:01 AM
So, the debt then.

If the debt is driving the price of gold, then why is the market buying treasuries that are paying historically low yields?

I'll take a stab at it;-)

Most of the money that is invested is done so by Money Managers. The way they make money is via commissions on what they buy. Treasuries seems to the unknowing to be the lowest risk yet allows for the Money Managers to make a commission.

caryalsobrook
01-27-2012, 08:04 AM
So, the debt then.

If the debt is driving the price of gold, then why is the market buying treasuries that are paying historically low yields?

You ask WHY the yeild is so low. I suspect you know the answer but hide it. Not a lie but close to it. question, WHO is the major buyers of the treasuries??? Answer, the FED and the banks. the FED loans money to the banks at 0% interest and the banks buy treasuries which pay 3% interest. the mariginal RETURN is as great as ever. Also the banks have no risk since they can repay the loanwith treasuries. I suggest when you make such statements you tell THE WHOLE TRUTH!!!

Buzz
01-27-2012, 08:20 AM
You ask WHY the yeild is so low. I suspect you know the answer but hide it. Not a lie but close to it. question, WHO is the major buyers of the treasuries??? Answer, the FED and the banks. the FED loans money to the banks at 0% interest and the banks buy treasuries which pay 3% interest. the mariginal RETURN is as great as ever. Also the banks have no risk since they can repay the loanwith treasuries. I suggest when you make such statements you tell THE WHOLE TRUTH!!!

This is interesting reading.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/0ab99570-20ce-11e1-8133-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1kfDzG27l

caryalsobrook
01-27-2012, 08:43 AM
This is interesting reading.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/0ab99570-20ce-11e1-8133-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1kfDzG27l
Again you dodge the facts. Hell yes the demand for treasuries is strong. THE FED AND BANKS ARE BUYING THEM!!! and banks are making a killing on them, especially small banks that were not in any finantial difficulty to begin with.

I have pointed out the reasons for artificially low interest rates so if you think I am wrong then tell me how. Tell me the difference in what Greece and Italy did and what we are doing for starters.

cpj
01-27-2012, 12:59 PM
All of the currency experts, gold experts, researchers and analysts i've been reading have said that people will flee the euro, find safety in American paper and eventually scramble for gold in the end. Seems to be playing out so far.I keep reading that as things deteriorate, the paper gold/silver traders who routinely short those markets will get squeezed out by increased physical demand and some will get crushed when there isn't enough deliverable metal to meet paper contract demands. They keep saying we will see paper and physical prices separate. Kitco has a great forum that is broken down into sub-forums for each metal, the economy etc. I stumbled on it several months ago. It is interseting to read opinions of people who aren't pumping stocks.

menmon
01-27-2012, 02:21 PM
Again you dodge the facts. Hell yes the demand for treasuries is strong. THE FED AND BANKS ARE BUYING THEM!!! and banks are making a killing on them, especially small banks that were not in any finantial difficulty to begin with.

I have pointed out the reasons for artificially low interest rates so if you think I am wrong then tell me how. Tell me the difference in what Greece and Italy did and what we are doing for starters.

You got this one wrong. We borrower from individuals at 1% through CDs and MMs, and if we can't lend it, we invest in treasuries paying 0.4%...losing 0.6%.

Treasuries are typically held by insurance companies and other soverein countries.

caryalsobrook
01-27-2012, 03:57 PM
You got this one wrong. We borrower from individuals at 1% through CDs and MMs, and if we can't lend it, we invest in treasuries paying 0.4%...losing 0.6%.

Treasuries are typically held by insurance companies and other soverein countries.
I don't know what bank you work for but tell me how much in treasuries it held in 2008, how much tarp money it got and how much it holds in treasuries. If your bank is losing maybe they should look at how Tennessee bankshares a holding company af 5 small banks. their stock has gone from $129.00 in 2000 to $320.00 as of April 2011. they have paid adividend of 1% a year but last year they paid a 7% dividend because they had so much money.

by the way if your bank can't make money in this environment then I hope I am not so unlucky that I eve do business with them.:rolleyes:

Franco
01-27-2012, 04:02 PM
You got this one wrong. We borrower from individuals at 1% through CDs and MMs, and if we can't lend it, we invest in treasuries paying 0.4%...losing 0.6%.

Treasuries are typically held by insurance companies and other soverein countries.

I just looked at my 2011 statement on my Fidelity Money Market account and it earned a whopping .01 (That's one-tenth of one percent)

Not looking to make or lose money, just want it is a safe place and don't trust the stock market. When I find an undervalued piece of real estate, I'll put it there.

menmon
01-27-2012, 04:56 PM
I don't know what bank you work for but tell me how much in treasuries it held in 2008, how much tarp money it got and how much it holds in treasuries. If your bank is losing maybe they should look at how Tennessee bankshares a holding company af 5 small banks. their stock has gone from $129.00 in 2000 to $320.00 as of April 2011. they have paid adividend of 1% a year but last year they paid a 7% dividend because they had so much money.

by the way if your bank can't make money in this environment then I hope I am not so unlucky that I eve do business with them.:rolleyes:

Didn't say we weren't making money:D Said that our investments in treasuries were not making money:(

menmon
01-27-2012, 04:59 PM
I just looked at my 2011 statement on my Fidelity Money Market account and it earned a whopping .01 (That's one-tenth of one percent)

Not looking to make or lose money, just want it is a safe place and don't trust the stock market. When I find an undervalued piece of real estate, I'll put it there.

There is a lot of option (opportunity) value in keeping your money in cash:D

See we do agree on somethings;)

Pete
01-27-2012, 09:12 PM
I bet there has not been one single advance in economic theory since the 1700's.

Maybe I should discard all of the electrical engineering books sitting back over on my shelf and go to an antique book store to find out what they were teaching back in 1776!

Very poor analogy.

Math never changes,,,,1 +1 will always equal 2 There are still alot of undiscovered things engeneers have yet to learn.its math that hasn't been discovered fully yet.
Principles for a fluent monetary system has been set in stone for thousands of years. If you don't believe me send me all your money and see what happens;-)