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Marvin S
02-23-2012, 09:46 PM
Had you invested $100 in T-bills in 1965 it would be worth $1,336 today, $100 in Gold in the same time frame would have created $4,455 today & $100 in the S&P 500 in the same time frame would have created $6,072.

So where would you put your money?

M&K's Retrievers
02-23-2012, 09:53 PM
Had you invested $100 in T-bills in 1965 it would be worth $1,336 today, $100 in Gold in the same time frame would have created $4,455 today & $100 in the S&P 500 in the same time frame would have created $6,072.

So where would you put your money?

What money?:confused::confused::confused::confused:

JDogger
02-23-2012, 11:36 PM
Had you invested $100 in T-bills in 1965 it would be worth $1,336 today, $100 in Gold in the same time frame would have created $4,455 today & $100 in the S&P 500 in the same time frame would have created $6,072.

So where would you put your money?


Hmmm.....cheese? JD;)

BrettG
02-24-2012, 12:53 AM
Gasoline !!!!

Franco
02-24-2012, 07:30 AM
Had you invested $100 in T-bills in 1965 it would be worth $1,336 today, $100 in Gold in the same time frame would have created $4,455 today & $100 in the S&P 500 in the same time frame would have created $6,072.

So where would you put your money?

Past performance is no indication of future performance!

Had that same $100. been invested in Apple, no telling how rich one would be;-)

Personally, I'll put my money where I have some control and not where it can artificially be manipulated. I've never lost a penny on any real estate deal and that is where I will stay.

TN_LAB
02-24-2012, 08:03 AM
Mine goes in the stock market, but I ain't you

Here's something to think about:

Let your "needed" rate of return drive your investment allocation. As you can see, it's not too hard to get a decent idea about what the returns might be over the next few decades, so then it's just a matter of crunching some numbers. The tricky part is being honest about how much money you might really need.

Me, I don't want to share my dog's food bowl in retirement. I don't want to be forced in to working until I'm 65 (it's not against the law to retire at 60 and buy your own health insurance...expensive, but not against the law). I've been to Hawaii, but not the Grand Canyon.

I'm too ornery to die, so I suspect I'll live a long time and my kids won't want to fool with me when I go senile. I'll probably run up some massive health care and/or custodial care bills (wouldn't be right of me to ask my kids or grand kids to ignore their family just so they can come take care of their dad).

Heaven forbid my grand kids end up like >50% of the folks in that they are directly affected by a divorce (divorce = broke) and need a little help.

And this student loan crap? You think I want my grand kids to graduate with a mortgage payment? Heaven forbid one of them decides they are called to cure cancer.

The good news is that all these "goals" are possible. It just takes some time and some money and some courage. I ain't wimping out and locking my money up at 1% - 4% because I know that'll never get it done. Only way I figure I got any chance is to invest that money in the stock market (and I ain't no stock market guru...I just ain't no wimp).

When it comes to investing in gold...I follow Warren Buffett's advice. Heck, you might say I follow all of Warren Buffett's investment advice (seems to be working)

Buzz
02-24-2012, 10:21 AM
Had you invested $100 in T-bills in 1965 it would be worth $1,336 today, $100 in Gold in the same time frame would have created $4,455 today & $100 in the S&P 500 in the same time frame would have created $6,072.

So where would you put your money?

Past performance is no indication of future performance!

Had that same $100. been invested in Apple, no telling how rich one would be;-)

Personally, I'll put my money where I have some control and not where it can artificially be manipulated. I've never lost a penny on any real estate deal and that is where I will stay.

Marv, I hate to go off the rails here, but Franco, are you saying that real estate prices never become inflated? I think the millions of folks who are under water on their mortgages would beg to differ.

And while we are on the topic of inflating bubbles, is gold susceptible?

Inquiring minds need to know!

Marv, in the last few years I put a lot of money into AAPL and F. I have also been carefully adding securities of companies that offer a good dividend. I don't see decent returns anywhere else.

Good luck!

Buzz
02-24-2012, 10:24 AM
When it comes to investing in gold...I follow Warren Buffett's advice. Heck, you might say I follow all of Warren Buffett's investment advice (seems to be working)

So, I assume you've read the book "Intelligent Investor?" ;-)

road kill
02-24-2012, 10:26 AM
[QUOTE=Franco;928993]

Marv, I hate to go off the rails here, but Franco, are you saying that real estate prices never become inflated? I think the millions of folks who are under water on their mortgages would beg to differ.

And while we are on the topic of inflating bubbles, is gold susceptible?

Inquiring minds need to know!

Marv, in the last few years I put a lot of money into AAPL and F. I have also been carefully adding securities of companies that offer a good dividend. I don't see decent returns anywhere else.

Good luck!

I think Gold has plateaued.
(don't listen to me, I am almost always wrong!!)
I can not beleive the performance of Apple.:shock:

I am running out of time, need to start spending some of that before it goes away!!
(or I do)

RK

Franco
02-24-2012, 10:30 AM
[quote=Franco;928993]

Marv, I hate to go off the rails here, but Franco, are you saying that real estate prices never become inflated? I think the millions of folks who are under water on their mortgages would beg to differ.

And while we are on the topic of inflating bubbles, is gold susceptible?

Inquiring minds need to know!

Marv, in the last few years I put a lot of money into AAPL and F. I have also been carefully adding securities of companies that offer a good dividend. I don't see decent returns anywhere else.

Good luck!

Like I said, I've never lost in real estate. In fact, the town in which I live has seen residential properties rise an average of 4% over the last three years. We haven't experienced the housing crisis that has hit other areas of the country.

I don't buy over-valued properties. I've made some handsome returns on raw land that I was also able to create income through hunting leases as well as rental properites in desirable areas.

I just turned down an offer on 1.5 arces that I purchased 3 years ago in Costa Rica over-looking the Pacific that would have netted me 22%.

TN_LAB
02-24-2012, 10:47 AM
So, I assume you've read the book "Intelligent Investor?" ;-)

Yes. I've know Mr. Market fairly well.

Franco
02-24-2012, 10:52 AM
[quote=Buzz;929098]

I think Gold has plateaued.
(don't listen to me, I am almost always wrong!!)
I can not beleive the performance of Apple.:shock:

I am running out of time, need to start spending some of that before it goes away!!
(or I do)

RK

Anyone ever count the 'buy gold' commercials that air on any of the conservative business networks? There is one in every commercial break! One would think gold is going to 5k an ounce! Lots of folks going to get burned buying at today's prices.

Make sure you have enough of seed, fertilizer and ammo!

;-)

cpj
02-24-2012, 12:37 PM
I don't think gold is near its peak. As long as central banks keep printing money like there's no tomorrow, gold will rise. It will fall temporarily when Greece defaults as everyone will flock to the dollar as a safe haven. It should go back up after that. JSMineset.com is a good site for commentary from a long term expert in gold, currency and stocks.

Marvin S
02-24-2012, 01:29 PM
Mine goes in the stock market, but I ain't you

Here's something to think about:

Let your "needed" rate of return drive your investment allocation. As you can see, it's not too hard to get a decent idea about what the returns might be over the next few decades, so then it's just a matter of crunching some numbers. The tricky part is being honest about how much money you might really need.

Me, I don't want to share my dog's food bowl in retirement. I don't want to be forced in to working until I'm 65 (it's not against the law to retire at 60 and buy your own health insurance...expensive, but not against the law). I've been to Hawaii, but not the Grand Canyon.

I'm too ornery to die, so I suspect I'll live a long time and my kids won't want to fool with me when I go senile. I'll probably run up some massive health care and/or custodial care bills (wouldn't be right of me to ask my kids or grand kids to ignore their family just so they can come take care of their dad).

Heaven forbid my grand kids end up like >50% of the folks in that they are directly affected by a divorce (divorce = broke) and need a little help.

And this student loan crap? You think I want my grand kids to graduate with a mortgage payment? Heaven forbid one of them decides they are called to cure cancer.

The good news is that all these "goals" are possible. It just takes some time and some money and some courage. I ain't wimping out and locking my money up at 1% - 4% because I know that'll never get it done. Only way I figure I got any chance is to invest that money in the stock market (and I ain't no stock market guru...I just ain't no wimp).

When it comes to investing in gold...I follow Warren Buffett's advice. Heck, you might say I follow all of Warren Buffett's investment advice (seems to be working)

You post like someone who's an astute investor :cool:. The OP was from a Buffett article in Fortune 2-27-12. Over the years I have looked at many of the same stocks the O of O also did. The billfold auction held a stock tip I owned & still do FR, CMH was stolen from our portfolio by a tax gimmick & I looked at RR's but felt them a little slow growth from their price level. I'm not a fan of Buffet's methods, PJ had him nailed!


Marv, I hate to go off the rails here, but Franco, are you saying that real estate prices never become inflated? I think the millions of folks who are under water on their mortgages would beg to differ.

And while we are on the topic of inflating bubbles, is gold susceptible?

Inquiring minds need to know!

Marv, in the last few years I put a lot of money into AAPL and F. I have also been carefully adding securities of companies that offer a good dividend. I don't see decent returns anywhere else.

Good luck!

I know Mulally, the architect of Boeing's offloading fiasco :(. But we also own F & will sell the day they hit $30 at a tidy profit. Not a stock we plan to keep.


I am running out of time, need to start spending some of that before it goes away!!
(or I do)

RK

RK - that's a priceless quote :).


Like I said, I've never lost in real estate.

I just turned down an offer on 1.5 arces that I purchased 3 years ago in Costa Rica over-looking the Pacific that would have netted me 22%.

Franco - REIT's might be right down your alley ;-). Econ 101 says diversify, not too many eggs in any basket. Which is something that can be done in stocks. I can sell them at any time for a $7 commission + the US getting their share. As the FED has ZIRPed us their share is fairly small :cool:. You can consider yourself fortunate to live in an area where there is economic activity, not all enjoy that luxury.

I've owned this medical stock for a few years - early on I sold enough to pay off the original investment. This past year they instituted a yearly dividend = to a 16% return on the OI.

I don't pay property taxes on the investments while they are growing :-P.

TN_LAB
02-24-2012, 02:43 PM
You post like someone who's an astute investor :cool:. :-P.


Astute? That's questionable :p
Stubborn, Yes. :p

Buzz
02-24-2012, 03:56 PM
I know Mulally, the architect of Boeing's offloading fiasco :(. But we also own F & will sell the day they hit $30 at a tidy profit. Not a stock we plan to keep.




I have not bought any F since they exceeded about $5.60/share.

If I live to see the day they hit $30, I will be ecstatic.

charly_t
02-24-2012, 04:25 PM
I'm with Franco. Buy land. Not just real estate.....land. A person has to use some common sense in which land they decide to buy of course. If I could have talked my husband into this a few years back we could have easily doubled our money when we decided to sell it later.

Franco
02-24-2012, 04:41 PM
I'm with Franco. Buy land. Not just real estate.....land. A person has to use some common sense in which land they decide to buy of course. If I could have talked my husband into this a few years back we could have easily doubled our money when we decided to sell it later.

My biggest hit was raw land that was clear cut by the timber company then sold to me for $507. per acre. I replanted a third of it in a hybred pine($70 per acre to replant) that matures into board timber in 25 years. The land appriciates every year as the timber grows, Plus, the cut over section is good for deer hunting as the browse attracts deer. Browse that won't grow under a timbered canopy. One can hunt it, fish it, walk it, breath it or lease it - its not like holding paper (stock). Then, there is the Federal CRP money, not as much as it use to be. But, by far it is the recreational value that makes it a solid investment and taxes are virtually zero on raw land.

Julie R.
02-24-2012, 08:36 PM
Not to mention land, especially near metro areas, is a finite commodity. They're not making any more of it. Acreage and waterfront will come back.

Hew
02-25-2012, 07:37 AM
Most of my meager investments are in real estate because that is so much easier for my pea brain to understand than other investments. One of my all-time favorite movies is "Trading Places." Seen it about 50 times and I still can't figure out how they beat the Duke brothers at the end. :oops:

But I recall an article in "Money" magazine a few years ago that compared the stock market to real estate over the long term, and stocks beat the brakes off real estate. And that was even before the real estate market collapsed.

Uncle Bill
02-26-2012, 01:32 PM
For those with some concerns about the Midas Metal, allow me to proffer some info, straight from the 'horses mouth', so to speak.;-)

UB

By Gold http://dailyreckoning.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/02/Gold_23.jpg

GoldHave you ever had any doubts about gold? Does it sometimes feel like it should be performing better? Are you concerned about its volatility? Do you worry about how it might perform in the future? Have you ever wondered about its true purchasing power? Maybe youíre nervous about a big drop in price again? I decided to go directly to the source to address these concerns: Gold himself. He put his arm around me and asked me to tell you a few things...
ó Jeff Clark, Casey Research (http://clicks.dailyreckoning.com//t/AQ/AAmXIQ/AAmoXw/AAX8Mw/AQ/AnzL8g/bcMH)

I hear that youíve had some worries about me. I understand. Your world is a very uncertain place right now. And when it comes to money, it looks as though your leaders donít understand some basic monetary principles, making things even more unsettling.

But I want you to know that the problems youíre experiencing are actually nothing new. Iíve seen these monetary, fiscal, and economic difficulties many times before. And I can tell you this: youíre safe with me. Thatís a bold proclamation, but Iíve provided monetary protection numerous times throughout history ó too many to count, in fact. Iíve served all kinds of people over the centuries, from kings and counts to serfs and servants.

To put your mind at ease, letís review my core characteristics, along with some history, to show how I can protect you against the monetary danger thatís likely to worsen in your near future. Weíll also take a look at your peculiar set of circumstances to see how I can be of service. By the time weíre done, I think youíll feel much better about my ability to help your portfolio withstand whatever is thrown its way.

Enduring Characteristics

Letís start with the basics. I have some characteristics that no other matter on Earth has...

I cannot be:

Printed (ask a miner how long it takes to find me and dig me up)
Counterfeited (you can try, but a scale will catch it every time)
Inflated (I canít be reproduced)I cannot be destroyed by;

Fire (it takes heat at least 1945.4 degrees F. to melt me)
Water (I donít rust or tarnish)
Time (my coins remain recognizable after a thousand years)I donít need:

Feeding (like cattle)
Fertilizer (like corn)
Maintenance (like printing presses)I have no:

Time limit (most metal is still in existence)
Counterparty risk (remember MF Global?)
Shelf life (I never expire)As a metal, I am uniquely:

Malleable (I spread without cracking)
Ductile (I stretch without breaking)
Beautiful (I am the ultimate accessory)As money, I am:

Liquid (easily convertible to cash)
Portable (you can conveniently hold $30,000 in one hand)
Divisible (you can use me in tiny fractions)
Consistent (I am the same in any quantity, at any place)
Private (no one has to know you own me)I am internationally accepted, last for thousands of years, and probably most important, you canít make any more of me.

And by the way, donít fret about those who say Iím not as good an asset as an income-producing vehicle. They misunderstand my role. Iím not trying to be a stock, for example. My function is as money and a store of value, so the proper comparison is to your dollars, or what you call Treasury Bills (of similar nominal value). And here is where I excel and serve my purpose: since 1913, the US dollar has lost 96% of its purchasing power. I have lost none.

Remember, I am the only financial asset that is not simultaneously someone elseís liability. I donít require the backing of any bank or government.

The History Lesson

Because I am eons old, Iíve observed something throughout history that you may not be aware of: government fiat currencies are a relatively new invention, and none has endured.

Eventually, they have all failed. Me? Iíve never been defaulted on or worth zero. Remember this the next time you have any doubts about my long-term worth.

You can rest assured that over time, I will hold my value. And when you near the end of your life, you can pass me on to your loved ones, knowing full well they will have something that cannot be devalued, debased, or destroyed.

What Color Is Your Money?

Like you, Iím concerned about the current state of fiscal and monetary affairs. It seems your government leaders have boxed themselves into a corner. Theyíve incurred too much debt and are spending too much money. Itís important that you understand some lessons from history about this kind of behavior so that youíre certain of what I can do for you.

The common denominators that lead to the downfall of every fiat currency are the two big Ds: debts and deficits. With that in mind, consider the following:

Detailed studies of government debt levels over the past 100 years show that debts have never been repaid (in original currency units) when they have exceeded 80% of GDP. US government debt will exceed 100% of GDP this year.
Investment legend Marc Faber reports that once a countryís payments on debt exceed 30% of tax revenue, the currency is ďdone for.Ē By some estimates, the US will hit that ratio this year.
Peter Bernholz, a leading expert on hyperinflation, states unequivocally that ďhyperinflation is caused by government budget deficits.Ē Next yearís US budget deficit is projected to be $1.3 trillion.The solution many of your leaders are pursuing is to create more currency units. The US monetary base has exploded 205.8% during the last three years, while my price is only up 65.8%. This fact, alone, implies that my price in dollars is likely to climb much higher.

This is also the reason why Iím not in a bubble, as some have tried to claim. It is your central banks and bond markets that are in a bubble. The fact that my price is rising is a warning that what your leaders are doing is unsustainable and potentially dangerous to your currency.

Think about this: the US has debt backed by debt, based on debt, dependent on debt, and leveraged with debt. You can, for example, buy a bond (i.e., lend money) on margin (i.e., with borrowed money). This is not a sound way to run financial markets.

Meanwhile, the warning bells continue to sound regarding Europeís debt crisis. In just the past 30 days:

Moodyís cautioned that it may cut the triple-A status of France, Austria, and the UK; and it downgraded six other European nations including Italy, Spain, and Portugal.
Standard & Poorís cut the triple-A status of France and Austria, while Italy, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Malta, Slovakia, and Slovenia were downgraded.
Fitch downgraded Belgium, Cyprus, Italy, Slovenia, and Spain, and stated there was a 50% chance of further cuts in the next two years.
Standard & Poorís downgraded 34 of Italyís 37 banks.
Moodyís warned just last week that it may cut the credit ratings of 17 global financial institutions and 114 European ones.The European crisis is far from over; and the path of least resistance for politicians is to create more currency units. This action can and will have clear and direct consequences: currencies will devalue, and inflation ó perhaps hyperinflation ó will result.

Once again, I encourage you to use me to protect some of your wealth.

How Much Is Enough?

Given the state of your monetary system, you should accumulate me (and silver) on a regular basis. Just buy some every month and put it in a safe place. After what Iíve witnessed throughout history, and based on the current path your government leaders insist on pursuing, I suggest using me as your savings vehicle instead of putting dollars in a bank.

If you donít own enough of me when these fiscal troubles really accelerate, I fear you will regret it. Iíve warned many in the past about the dilution of nationsí currencies, and those who didnít heed my warnings experienced severe financial pain. Excuses wonít pay the mortgage nor feed the family when the effects of currency debasement hit your home and pocketbook.

Make sure you own enough of me to make a difference to your portfolio. This means having more than a couple coins or a few shares of GLD, the latter of which is only a proxy for my price.

How do you know if you own enough? Ask yourself:

If inflation returns, or even hyperinflation hits...
If the economy is flat...
If uncertainty and fear continue around the globe...
If stock markets languish...
If the amount of spending from the worldís governments proves futile...
If government interference in the economy continues to increase...
If the value of the US dollar takes a major fall...
If the world enters a recession or depression...
If you wonder if you have enough ďsafeĒ money.....would you feel that you own enough of me?

Buy a sufficient amount so that as your currency continues to lose value, your portfolio wonít. If you do your part, I promise Iíll do mine.

Your monetary friend,

Gold

---

Regards,

Jeff Clark,
for The Daily Reckoning

P.S. Now that you know the truth about gold, how do you start buying it and investing in it? Download this free report to get the answers and get started today (http://clicks.dailyreckoning.com//t/AQ/AAmXIQ/AAmoXw/AAX8Mw/Ag/AnzL8g/ZsI4).

---------------------------------------------------------

cpj
02-26-2012, 01:40 PM
Read that a couple of days ago. Brilliant!

Marvin S
02-26-2012, 06:28 PM
I have not bought any F since they exceeded about $5.60/share.

If I live to see the day they hit $30, I will be ecstatic.

I have a Forbes from 1-30-06 with an article "This Apple is too Shiny",
$72 at the time. :)


My biggest hit was raw land that was clear cut by the timber company then sold to me for $507. per acre. I replanted a third of it in a hybred pine($70 per acre to replant) that matures into board timber in 25 years. The land appriciates every year as the timber grows, Plus, the cut over section is good for deer hunting as the browse attracts deer. Browse that won't grow under a timbered canopy. One can hunt it, fish it, walk it, breath it or lease it - its not like holding paper (stock). Then, there is the Federal CRP money, not as much as it use to be. But, by far it is the recreational value that makes it a solid investment and taxes are virtually zero on raw land.

Sounds like what we were looking for 15-20 years ago, just in wrong location.


Not to mention land, especially near metro areas, is a finite commodity. They're not making any more of it. Acreage and waterfront will come back.


I live in an area on the edge of progress. The only ones doing well at this time are the government agencies. Like Franco have the wildlife so there is some enjoyment but will be glad when the market returns so we can hit the road. Paying too much for wildlife viewing :).


For those with some concerns about the Midas Metal, allow me to proffer some info, straight from the 'horses mouth', so to speak.;-)

UB

By Gold http://dailyreckoning.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/02/Gold_23.jpg

GoldHave you ever had any doubts about gold? Does it sometimes feel like it should be performing better? Are you concerned about its volatility? Do you worry about how it might perform in the future? Have you ever wondered about its true purchasing power? Maybe youíre nervous about a big drop in price again? I decided to go directly to the source to address these concerns: Gold himself. He put his arm around me and asked me to tell you a few things...
ó Jeff Clark, Casey Research (http://clicks.dailyreckoning.com//t/AQ/AAmXIQ/AAmoXw/AAX8Mw/AQ/AnzL8g/bcMH)


---------------------------------------------------------

UB - don't quarrel with the wisdom of those statements & as he says one should have a position - my feeling is GDX with some GLD would be the answer.

cpj
02-26-2012, 07:15 PM
Marvin, are you under the impression that the gold ETF's actually have the gold to equal their outstanding shares?

Marvin S
02-26-2012, 07:50 PM
Marvin, are you under the impression that the gold ETF's actually have the gold to equal their outstanding shares?

No - GDX is gold miners stocks which I would buy @ the right price, GLD is bullion with what backup per share I do not know as I have never had an interest in bullion. When I was getting my Mining Engr degree we were in the bullion room at Bunker Hill on a tour. The physical bullion was not a turn on other than the guy says you can have a bar if you can carry iot to CouerD'Alene without setting it down so I hoisted one up & started off before he said just kidding :), but we do have a small coin collection. We owned AU (Anglogold Ashanti) until recently, wish I would have had that in GDX.

cpj
02-26-2012, 08:26 PM
Marvin, if you don't mind me asking, what mining stocks do you like? I keep hearing that the mining sector is almost ready for takeoff.

Marvin S
02-27-2012, 12:13 AM
Marvin, if you don't mind me asking, what mining stocks do you like? I keep hearing that the mining sector is almost ready for takeoff.

Ti, Be, potentially rare earths - need to be in friendly country or we buy the processors. Mining is cyclical, when the dow was @ 6K a couple of years ago would have been the time to acquire a position in carefully selected stocks or ETF's. The only processor we own is RTI purchased @ a much lower price. Energy & associated, Batteries, Financials, Booze, Piggy Piggy, Healthcare for the runup, hopefully :). We are catfish & do not chase the bait higher.

TN_LAB
02-27-2012, 07:00 AM
Marvin, are you under the impression that the gold ETF's actually have the gold to equal their outstanding shares?

I know the iShares ETF, IAU is backed by physical gold, FWIW:


Backed by Physical Gold
The shares are backed by gold, identified on the custodianís books as property of the Trust and held by the custodian in vaults in the vicinity of New York, Toronto, London and other locations.

http://us.ishares.com/product_info/fund/bar_list/IAU.htm

cpj
02-27-2012, 07:05 AM
Thanks Marvin.
Tn Lab, are they backed dollar for dollar, can you convert to physical?

road kill
02-27-2012, 07:16 AM
I have SPDR Gold shares.

I just sold 40 shares to give myself an allowance for toys & travel.:D
I am not sure if I want to die with a bank account.
I paid well over 6 figures for both my kids to get Masters.
I paid well over 6 figures to fight cancer.

I am planning to die broke, with a bunch of neat toys and a smile on my face!!!!;-)


Just sayin'.........


RK

menmon
02-27-2012, 02:39 PM
What all this investment talk is telling me is that you republicans have seceded that Obama will win in 2012:cool:

road kill
02-27-2012, 03:17 PM
What all this investment talk is telling me is that you republicans have seceded that Obama will win in 2012:cool:

Yep :rolleyes:

RK

LokiMeister
02-27-2012, 04:21 PM
What all this investment talk is telling me is that you republicans have seceded that Obama will win in 2012:cool:

As much as I hate to say it...who even has a decent chance? The economists are saying that the economy is getting better. That will drive most of the votes in any election. Barry would have to really screw up to lose in November.

menmon
02-27-2012, 04:26 PM
Yep :rolleyes:

RK

See RK...besides both us being traveling men...we do agree now and then;-)

road kill
02-27-2012, 05:26 PM
See RK...besides both us being traveling men...we do agree now and then;-)

You must have missed the little sarcastic eye roll, huh?

This guy flies in the face of everything I beleive in.


RK

Franco
02-27-2012, 05:27 PM
I would have bet dollars to donuts that the news of the economy would get better the closer we get to the election.

The million dollar question is;

What will the news of the economy be after the elections?

;-)

menmon
02-27-2012, 05:45 PM
I would have bet dollars to donuts that the news of the economy would get better the closer we get to the election.

The million dollar question is;

What will the news of the economy be after the elections?

;-)

Market always does better when a democrat in the whitehouse. Don't let those yahoos on CNBC fool you...Wall Street votes democrat...I know because I worked with them. I was a republican when I worked in NY and it felt about like being a democrat in Texas does.

paul young
02-27-2012, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=Franco;930547]I would have bet dollars to donuts that the news of the economy would get better the closer we get to the election.

The million dollar question is;

What will the news of the economy be after the elections?


why would anyone not form their own opinion about this? don't rely on some talking head, look at what is going on in your community, your state, your region. form your own opinion!-Paul

Marvin S
02-27-2012, 06:19 PM
So - what do the last 8 posts have to do with investing? The price of fuel pretty much tells how the POTUS has handled the economy :(.

paul young
02-27-2012, 06:37 PM
So - what do the last 8 posts have to do with investing? The price of fuel pretty much tells how the oil companies have us over a barrel (pun intended) :(.

fixed it for ya!

my investments are doing pretty well over the last 5 months. i have a little of everything.-Paul

road kill
02-27-2012, 06:39 PM
3 of them are mine.
My bad Marvin, this thread is all yours, sambos and Francos.


RK out

Marvin S
02-27-2012, 07:12 PM
I have SPDR Gold shares.

I just sold 40 shares to give myself an allowance for toys & travel.:D
I am not sure if I want to die with a bank account.
I paid well over 6 figures for both my kids to get Masters.
I paid well over 6 figures to fight cancer.

I am planning to die broke, with a bunch of neat toys and a smile on my face!!!!;-)

Just sayin'......... RK

It would be nice if we could predict the date but that's not in the cards, unless?

Our boys paid for their own education - when they got out of HS I told them to get a job so they could see how life would be without options. When they complained I just told them that was how life would be without options. All but one was in school the next year. They were not happy at the time but they began to realize things were different in our family. They did get care packages :). The youngest was the only kid in his dorm as a freshman that had both his parents still together. As they talk among themselves those things stand out.

We live a fairly modest life style so whatever is left over will be for them. If we were to win the lottery I know what would be done with the money.


3 of them are mine.
My bad Marvin, this thread is all yours, sambos and Francos.


RK out

RK - not directed at you -

Sambo for being so well educated & a financial guru wasn't adding much if anything, but if I may, that's normally his contribution to any thread.

Franco is Franco - He has his strong opinions, sometimes he's close to being on the mark. I wish there had been some of that RE he talks about in our travels.

Have a nice day!!!!!!!!!

charly_t
02-27-2012, 10:25 PM
What all this investment talk is telling me is that you republicans have seceded that Obama will win in 2012:cool:

NO ! That is not what it is telling you. What it is telling you is that more people on this board are better off than most other U.S.A. citizens at this moment. I am not buying anything that is not edible, used for energy or wearable right now. Would I buy land if I had money to spend....YES. If we are able we can always plant 'tators or corn on land that is suitable. Cut wood for heating etc. Sorry if I sound old and mean.....I am. ;)

Buzz
02-28-2012, 06:35 AM
Market always does better when a democrat in the whitehouse. Don't let those yahoos on CNBC fool you...Wall Street votes democrat...I know because I worked with them. I was a republican when I worked in NY and it felt about like being a democrat in Texas does.

Reminds me of training in Texas and going with a friend to meet the land owner whose property we would be training on. My friend says, don't take any bait and start talking politics with these folks or we might get kicked out! ;-)

TN_LAB
02-28-2012, 07:31 AM
Thanks Marvin.
Tn Lab, are they backed dollar for dollar, can you convert to physical?

1. I'm pretty sure they are backed dollar for dollar
2. Probably not. I'd say the logistics of pulling that off would make it expensive (if you wanted physical gold, find a local dealer).

menmon
02-28-2012, 11:27 AM
Investing advice - always follow the liquidity (money)

Value is determined by how many dollars are chasing it, not by its real worth in terms of future earnings, albeit future earning potential should set value, lots of buyers will drive value above real worth.

My advice to everyone is invest in an S&P 500 Index fund. Reasoning: fees are small, almost all americans invest in it every pay period through their 401ks so lots of liquidity is chasing it. Yawn through the corrections in the market. Realize gold is a fear investment for many. Don't purchase bonds now because most of the value in bonds has been realized. There could be some good returns in muni-bonds right now but do your homework on the underlying borrower. And don't forget the option value of being in cash.

But most of all, quit letting the spin doctors drive your emotions for investing. Markets are much bigger than politicians...rates are not held low before elections, markets don't go up because people believe the president is changing or congress, because markets know that they do not have that big of influence.

The correction of 2008 should be proof that set on your hands and wait and money comes back.

LokiMeister
02-28-2012, 11:37 AM
Investing advice - always follow the liquidity (money)

Value is determined by how many dollars are chasing it, not by its real worth in terms of future earnings, albeit future earning potential should set value, lots of buyers will drive value above real worth.

My advice to everyone is invest in an S&P 500 Index fund. Reasoning: fees are small, almost all americans invest in it every pay period through their 401ks so lots of liquidity is chasing it. Yawn through the corrections in the market. Realize gold is a fear investment for many. Don't purchase bonds now because most of the value in bonds has been realized. There could be some good returns in muni-bonds right now but do your homework on the underlying borrower. And don't forget the option value of being in cash.

But most of all, quit letting the spin doctors drive your emotions for investing. Markets are much bigger than politicians...rates are not held low before elections, markets don't go up because people believe the president is changing or congress, because markets know that they do not have that big of influence.

The correction of 2008 should be proof that set on your hands and wait and money comes back.

And then, if you have the stomach for it, go to www.fool.com and join Stock Advisor and buy individual stocks. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row before buying individual stocks, though.

Buzz
02-28-2012, 11:45 AM
The correction of 2008 should be proof that set on your hands and wait and money comes back.


Sit on your hands? It was killing me that I wasn't sitting on more cash. I would have went on a buying spree. What little I did have to throw in has done well!

Marvin S
02-28-2012, 12:46 PM
Reminds me of training in Texas and going with a friend to meet the land owner whose property we would be training on. My friend says, don't take any bait and start talking politics with these folks or we might get kicked out! ;-)

Have you read "The Time It Never Rained" by Elmer Kelton? :)


Investing advice - always follow the liquidity (money)

Value is determined by how many dollars are chasing it, not by its real worth in terms of future earnings, albeit future earning potential should set value, lots of buyers will drive value above real worth.

My advice to everyone is invest in an S&P 500 Index fund. Reasoning: fees are small, almost all americans invest in it every pay period through their 401ks so lots of liquidity is chasing it. Yawn through the corrections in the market. Realize gold is a fear investment for many. Don't purchase bonds now because most of the value in bonds has been realized. There could be some good returns in muni-bonds right now but do your homework on the underlying borrower. And don't forget the option value of being in cash.

But most of all, quit letting the spin doctors drive your emotions for investing. Markets are much bigger than politicians...rates are not held low before elections, markets don't go up because people believe the president is changing or congress, because markets know that they do not have that big of influence.

The correction of 2008 should be proof that set on your hands and wait and money comes back.

The S&P 500 - I'm of the opinion that a good low load MidCap index is better - VIMSX or VIMAX - Also believe that funds like Royce & T Rowe offer value for the investor in funds.

As for corrections - '62, 87', 90', all come to mind as times to buy individual stocks along with some funds when the market is going down - along with 2008-2009 - not all stocks hit their low in Oct 08, some did it F-M 09. & others straggled along & were buys at other times. I believe it says a lot about paying attention during those times as glitches by very good companies make them vulnerable to short time period selloff's & buying opportunities for the prepared investor. JWN comes to mind during that time frame :).

menmon
02-28-2012, 02:34 PM
Sit on your hands? It was killing me that I wasn't sitting on more cash. I would have went on a buying spree. What little I did have to throw in has done well!

Cash has option value:)

menmon
02-28-2012, 02:44 PM
Have you read "The Time It Never Rained" by Elmer Kelton? :)



The S&P 500 - I'm of the opinion that a good low load MidCap index is better - VIMSX or VIMAX - Also believe that funds like Royce & T Rowe offer value for the investor in funds.

As for corrections - '62, 87', 90', all come to mind as times to buy individual stocks along with some funds when the market is going down - along with 2008-2009 - not all stocks hit their low in Oct 08, some did it F-M 09. & others straggled along & were buys at other times. I believe it says a lot about paying attention during those times as glitches by very good companies make them vulnerable to short time period selloff's & buying opportunities for the prepared investor. JWN comes to mind during that time frame :).

My advise is for the passive investor, which most of us are. Not knowing all the facts, you could have bought Lehman on the correction and see where that would have left you. Index funds are good in the sense you are not betting on one industry or group of managers.

There are times when mid-caps outperform, but from a pure passive strategy the 500 gets you some of all. Without looking to closely, I would guess the Large-caps have had a good run, given the flight to quality. My guess is that oil and gas and the associated services have driven your mid-cap rally, so if you are thinking through these things, weighting in a class of stocks can produce good returns...arguably emerging markets are positioned well to perform as the world begins to grow again, but you have real soverign risk with them, so you pay attention. Personally, I'm a passive investor, because I spend my time making my money other ways. This is strategy that fits most of us.

Clearly there are R/E opportunities now, but don't forget the carring cost, i.e. taxes, interest, maintenance