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Nate_C
03-20-2012, 07:55 PM
Surprised no one has brought this up yet. This seems pretty crazy. Clear cut case of some degree of murder but the guy hasn't been arrested. Sounds like the Florida "Stand your Ground" law has alot to do with it. That even if you start it, you can claim self defence. I am pro gun but this needs to be looked at.

HPL
03-20-2012, 08:48 PM
Have heard nothing about it. Do you have a link?

charly_t
03-20-2012, 10:51 PM
Surprised no one has brought this up yet. This seems pretty crazy. Clear cut case of some degree of murder but the guy hasn't been arrested. Sounds like the Florida "Stand your Ground" law has alot to do with it. That even if you start it, you can claim self defence. I am pro gun but this needs to be looked at.

My take on this is that Z. was out "hunting" for someone to shoot and he saw this kid and said to himself "Hey, his skin is the right color for me to be able to shoot him and get away with it". I hope I am wrong but having a mixed racial back ground with some of my family I remember some things said to me when I was in grade school where everyone knew everyone else ( who your family were etc. ). Maybe the man ( Z. ) did not have a thought as clear as that. Maybe he just had fear and a gun ( fear biter dog scenario ). You know I was surprised that we did not hear anything about this till the last few days and it happened back in Feb. I believe. My thoughts are he ( Z. ) should be in jail with a high bail set for his release.

Hew
03-20-2012, 11:31 PM
Surprised no one has brought this up yet. This seems pretty crazy. Clear cut case of some degree of murder but the guy hasn't been arrested. Sounds like the Florida "Stand your Ground" law has alot to do with it. That even if you start it, you can claim self defence. I am pro gun but this needs to be looked at.
Firstly...this happened where I live and has been discussed ad naseum for some time. It is NOT a clear cut case of murder. IMO, Zimmerman screwed up, but outside of Al Sharpton, nobody reasonably believes he'll end up being charged with murder.

Secondly...your characterization of "Stand Your Ground" is uninformed and at the end of the day, will likely have little to no bearing in this instance.

Thirdly...you "look at" the gun laws in your state, and we'll look at the laws in our state, thanks. ;-)

Fourthly...Zimmerman is Hispanic (Cuban)...so this isn't some case of redneck justice protecting whitey for gunning down an innnocent black kid.

Fifthly...much of the media are manipulative scumbags. When they show a picture of Trayvon, most of them use years-old pictures of him as a fresh-faced boy of about 13 instead of running the more recent picture of him wearing a hoodie and looking kinda "street." Gotta sell the sizzle, right, bloodsuckers? :rolleyes:

All that said, I feel horrible for Trayvon and his family. And Zimmerman seems like an idiot who should be punished. But I'm not convinced he's guilty of murder and I'm certainly not convinced that the Sanford PD and the State Atty. are dragging their feet or unfairly siding with Zimmerman.

charly_t
03-21-2012, 12:23 AM
Which one of them was yelling "help" ? It sounds plain in the 911 tape played on T.V. Not that it is plain enough for the average person hearing it to tell who it was. I guess the thing that really disturbs me is that Z. seems to have decided who and what the kid was without knowing him just seeing him that night.

charly_t
03-21-2012, 01:35 AM
Firstly...this happened where I live and has been discussed ad naseum for some time. It is NOT a clear cut case of murder. IMO, Zimmerman screwed up, but outside of Al Sharpton, nobody reasonably believes he'll end up being charged with murder.

Secondly...your characterization of "Stand Your Ground" is uninformed and at the end of the day, will likely have little to no bearing in this instance.

Thirdly...you "look at" the gun laws in your state, and we'll look at the laws in our state, thanks. ;-)

Fourthly...Zimmerman is Hispanic (Cuban)...so this isn't some case of redneck justice protecting whitey for gunning down an innnocent black kid.

Fifthly...much of the media are manipulative scumbags. When they show a picture of Trayvon, most of them use years-old pictures of him as a fresh-faced boy of about 13 instead of running the more recent picture of him wearing a hoodie and looking kinda "street." Gotta sell the sizzle, right, bloodsuckers? :rolleyes:

All that said, I feel horrible for Trayvon and his family. And Zimmerman seems like an idiot who should be punished. But I'm not convinced he's guilty of murder and I'm certainly not convinced that the Sanford PD and the State Atty. are dragging their feet or unfairly siding with Zimmerman.

Got any link to a write up that you consider to be unbiased in this case ? I would be very interested in reading it.

Jason Glavich
03-21-2012, 06:48 AM
Got any link to a write up that you consider to be unbiased in this case ? I would be very interested in reading it.

I have't seen one that is unbias yet. Every article screams he should be in jail for shooting the kid who was just going to get skittles during a basketball game on TV. If I remember right it was pretty late at night, hood up after being asked what he was doing, guy was following him according to the tape but he says he wasn't then bang.

troy schwab
03-21-2012, 07:59 AM
I am pro gun.... all the way.... but this is bullshit. Z should be in jail, for aggravated assault if nothing more. He is not a law enforcement officer. He called 911 and said "this guy is up to no good" Unless he witnessed this person breaking the law, and even then, he has no business addressing or confronting this individual. Let the law do its job. Now the "castle doctrine" or whatever your state calls it, may be a loophole, but I totally disagree in this case. He willingly addressed this "perp", and spawned the entire situation. He should be in jail. JMO

dback
03-21-2012, 09:21 AM
Thirdly...you "look at" the gun laws in your state, and we'll look at the laws in our state, thanks. ;-)

No kidding.........Az has had more then it's fair share of bussed in "opinion" lately, followed by the convenient media 'angle' and the ever present 'knee jerk'. Enough to gag a maggot.

Buzz
03-21-2012, 09:37 AM
I am pro gun.... all the way.... but this is bullshit. Z should be in jail, for aggravated assault if nothing more. He is not a law enforcement officer. He called 911 and said "this guy is up to no good" Unless he witnessed this person breaking the law, and even then, he has no business addressing or confronting this individual. Let the law do its job. Now the "castle doctrine" or whatever your state calls it, may be a loophole, but I totally disagree in this case. He willingly addressed this "perp", and spawned the entire situation. He should be in jail. JMO


We agree on something. Kinda scary huh?

troy schwab
03-21-2012, 09:49 AM
L'il bit......... LOL

road kill
03-21-2012, 09:55 AM
I am pro gun.... all the way.... but this is bullshit. Z should be in jail, for aggravated assault if nothing more. He is not a law enforcement officer. He called 911 and said "this guy is up to no good" Unless he witnessed this person breaking the law, and even then, he has no business addressing or confronting this individual. Let the law do its job. Now the "castle doctrine" or whatever your state calls it, may be a loophole, but I totally disagree in this case. He willingly addressed this "perp", and spawned the entire situation. He should be in jail. JMO






We agree on something. Kinda scary huh?

Me too!!!
This guy was hunting.............


RK

Matt McKenzie
03-21-2012, 09:58 AM
It's always amazing to me how people can read news articles and assume that they know more about an incident than the police investigating at the scene or the district or state attorneys involved.
But of course because a black man was killed by a man named Zimmerman (sp?), it must be because he was black and the only reason that no arrest was made was because the PO-lice are raaaaacists.
I don't know enough about the case to make a decision with regards to guilt or innocence. Neither do you, unless you were there.

BonMallari
03-21-2012, 10:03 AM
It's always amazing to me how people can read news articles and assume that they know more about an incident than the police investigating at the scene or the district or state attorneys involved.
But of course because a black man was killed by a man named Zimmerman (sp?), it must be because he was black and the only reason that no arrest was made was because the PO-lice are raaaaacists.
I don't know enough about the case to make a decision with regards to guilt or innocence. Neither do you, unless you were there.


well said......

charly_t
03-21-2012, 11:18 AM
It's always amazing to me how people can read news articles and assume that they know more about an incident than the police investigating at the scene or the district or state attorneys involved.
But of course because a black man was killed by a man named Zimmerman (sp?), it must be because he was black and the only reason that no arrest was made was because the PO-lice are raaaaacists.
I don't know enough about the case to make a decision with regards to guilt or innocence. Neither do you, unless you were there.

Tapes are as close as we can get to being there. What Z was saying to the 911 person make it pretty clear who he is and what he was thinking/doing. Then the call from the lady to 911 where she was calling for help in this instance. On this last tape you can clearly hear someone yelling "help, help, help". Then there are shots. "Just the facts, mam."

gmhr1
03-21-2012, 01:01 PM
I believe he was hunting as you call it because there had been 8 robberies in the last couple months in their gated community by young black males. ( according to an HOA member on TV) My daughter just came out of a neighborhood like this she had to walk away from her home of 8 years because of the crime the people that are commiting most of it live in the neighborhhood since they are minors nothing happens it makes you more aware of people in your area and I dont believe it was racial at all.

Hew
03-21-2012, 01:08 PM
Just came back from the gym where a friend of mine is a Sanford PD ossifer...he was a popular guy today.:razz:

I was wrong earlier...the guy isn't Cuban; Zimmerman is Peruvian with a German surname. So much for the white racism angle. :rolleyes:

The pictures you mostly see of the kid are a joke....all from middle school/early teens. Not many of the pics the media shows give you any indication that he was a decent sized kid of about 6'.

Zimmerman had bumps and bruises all over him. A cut on his nose and a cut on the back of his head. He was definately in a scrap with the kid. I've never seen that in the news.

According to my friend, there has been ZERO instances in the State of Florida where, given similar circumstances of claimed self-defense, that the shooter has been tried for murder. If Zimmerman is charged with any count of murder he will be the very first.

Zimmerman was known as a wannabe police officer.

In the words of my friend, "being an idiot doesn't make you guilty of murder."

This whole sad event proves two maxims that most of us gun-nuts know:
1) Dead men tell no tales.
2) Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6

Matt McKenzie
03-21-2012, 02:12 PM
John,
I keep forgetting to ask; Soundgarden or Cash?

duckheads
03-21-2012, 02:26 PM
10 homicides in Chicago last weekend. Where is the outrage? Where is the national media? Where is Rev Sharpton? Selective outrage at it's finest!!!!!!!!!!!

Buzz
03-21-2012, 02:43 PM
Zimmerman had bumps and bruises all over him. A cut on his nose and a cut on the back of his head. He was definately in a scrap with the kid. I've never seen that in the news.





Guess what? If some nut decided to follow me when I was 18, and then try and restrain me or keep me from going on my way when I was doing nothing but trying to get to my dad's house? Guess what? He would have had bumps and bruises all over him. And if the guy shot me & was still walking the streets, I would hate to say what my old man would put him through, but I have a pretty good idea.

If he shot my kid, I would have no problem sitting in jail for the rest of my life in order to be sure he paid his debt to me. That might sound extreme, but putting an unarmed kid in the ground, even for robbery (if that was what he was up to) is pretty extreme.

Hew
03-21-2012, 03:01 PM
John,
I keep forgetting to ask; Soundgarden or Cash?
Cash, of course. ;-) You?

troy schwab
03-21-2012, 03:11 PM
Guess what? If some nut decided to follow me when I was 18, and then try and restrain me or keep me from going on my way when I was doing nothing but trying to get to my dad's house? Guess what? He would have had bumps and bruises all over him. And if the guy shot me & was still walking the streets, I would hate to say what my old man would put him through, but I have a pretty good idea.

If he shot my kid, I would have no problem sitting in jail for the rest of my life in order to be sure he paid his debt to me. That might sound extreme, but putting an unarmed kid in the ground, even for robbery (if that was what he was up to) is pretty extreme.



WOW...... Thats twice now....... WTF? LOL

Hew
03-21-2012, 03:14 PM
That might sound extreme, but putting an unarmed kid in the ground, even for robbery (if that was what he was up to) is pretty extreme.
Ah, but he wasn't shot because he was a suspected robber. He was shot, according to Zimmerman, because he was in a physical altercation with Zimmerman and Zimmerman claims that as a result of this physical atlercation he felt that his life was in danger. I'm no attorney, but to be in immediate fear for one's life is, I'm fairly confident, grounds for using deadly force.

Maybe more facts/info will come to light, but right now I believe Zimmerman acted foolishly and put himself in a position he had no business to be in...physically confronting the kid. For that he should be charged. But once the altercation turned physical, if he can provide proof that he was in fear for his life, then the shooting was justified. Unnecessary? Yes. Shameful? Yes. Tragic? Horribly so. Murder? Not so much, IMO.

gmhr1
03-21-2012, 03:20 PM
I dont think Zimmerman would have followed this kid and reacted like he did had there not been a string of robberies in their community by black males. I think if they had been robbed and the suspects were white teens and its raining , a white teen is walking thru the area wearing a hoodie he would have kept an eye on him to.

troy schwab
03-21-2012, 03:28 PM
.

Maybe more facts/info will come to light, but right now I believe Zimmerman acted foolishly and put himself in a position he had no business to be in...physically confronting the kid. For that he should be charged. But once the altercation turned physical, if he can provide proof that he was in fear for his life, then the shooting was justified. Unnecessary? Yes. Shameful? Yes. Tragic? Horribly so. Murder? Not so much, IMO.

Agreed! I guess if the kid pulled a knife or something, during the fight, then yes........ deadly force is allowed.

Buzz
03-21-2012, 03:45 PM
Agreed! I guess if the kid pulled a knife or something, during the fight, then yes........ deadly force is allowed.

Holy crap!

Once Hew explained himself, I can see where he is coming from.

I should mark this day on the calendar, or go buy a lottery ticket or something!

BonMallari
03-21-2012, 03:45 PM
Ah, but he wasn't shot because he was a suspected robber. He was shot, according to Zimmerman, because he was in a physical altercation with Zimmerman and Zimmerman claims that as a result of this physical atlercation he felt that his life was in danger. I'm no attorney, but to be in immediate fear for one's life is, I'm fairly confident, grounds for using deadly force.

Maybe more facts/info will come to light, but right now I believe Zimmerman acted foolishly and put himself in a position he had no business to be in...physically confronting the kid. For that he should be charged. But once the altercation turned physical, if he can provide proof that he was in fear for his life, then the shooting was justified. Unnecessary? Yes. Shameful? Yes. Tragic? Horribly so. Murder? Not so much, IMO.

I have learned more about the incident in your TWO posts than anything that the media or on line sources....Thanks;)

Dustin D
03-21-2012, 03:59 PM
Agreed! I guess if the kid pulled a knife or something, during the fight, then yes........ deadly force is allowed.

Each state has their own definition of Justifiable Homicide but most will never consider the possibility that one or the other must be armed with a weapon.

The fear of death or bodily harm is a personal one, and only that person can know it at the time.

Of course unless a jury of 12 of your peers thinks you should not have been in fear for your life.

Small people kill big people every day of the week. That's a weak argument.

Down a dark alley, getting your ass handed to you by a thug criminal who is probably the thug responsible for all the recent break-ins around your neighborhood could easily pass as justifiable fear of death or serious bodily harm.

We know of course that's not who Z was fighting, but at the time, Z didn't know that, he thought that's exactly who he was fighting and he surely had no clue WHEN this guy beating his ass would stop. It obviously crossed his mind that he might not stop until he's dead.

I think people are having a real issue with separating the two situations here but I think his attorney would not have any problem doing so.

What Z did before the two started fighting was NOT unlawful, and there's no law on the books to charge him with.

What he did during the fight, no 12 of his peers (and this case will NOT be held anywhere near where this happen) will all say he had no right to end the FIGHT FOR HIS LIFE by way of Justifiable Homicide.

It's a complete crap situation, I hate it happen. A young innocent man at the wrong place/wrong time was killed by an overzealous Community Watchmen.

But I think people are going to walk away sour from this one. I don't see Z being charged with murder and manslaughter is far off as well.

I also believe Z is feeling horrible contrary to popular belief. I believe he's re-lived that night thousands of times over and over again wishing he'd have done things different.

However I can't fault him for taking action against a rise in criminal activity around his community. It's simply impossible for LEO's to provide 24 hour security. It's why Community Watches are set up in the first place. But you've got to have your head screwed on straight to take on such a responsiblity.





/

road kill
03-21-2012, 04:09 PM
So......if some jabrony chases me down, starts giving me crap, I knock him on his ass he can shoot me???
(or vice versa)


I'm thinking NO!!!

Sorry.
Ain't buying it.



RK

gmhr1
03-21-2012, 04:14 PM
If you assault me I have a right to defend myself

road kill
03-21-2012, 04:16 PM
If you assault me I have a right to defend myself

If you assault me, and I kick your azz, you can shoot me??

Bravo Sierra!!!


RK

charly_t
03-21-2012, 04:17 PM
.................................................. .................
Maybe more facts/info will come to light, but right now I believe Zimmerman acted foolishly and put himself in a position he had no business to be in...physically confronting the kid. For that he should be charged. But once the altercation turned physical, if he can provide proof that he was in fear for his life, then the shooting was justified. Unnecessary? Yes. Shameful? Yes. Tragic? Horribly so. Murder? Not so much, IMO.

I agree with part of what you say but not all, Hew, but I agree with what Buzz said also as to what would happen if someone jumped one of my children. Unless that kid had a weapon though and was fixing to use it on Z I figure that Z should have a really good excuse for shooting. "Fear Biter !" And I think Al S should keep his mouth shut and let some more level headed African Americans be heard. Just hope that the things that Martin Luther King used to say can still be remembered. I still think Z was a racist no matter which color his skin is.

Dustin D
03-21-2012, 04:18 PM
So......if some jabrony chases me down, starts giving me crap, I knock him on his ass he can shoot me???
(or vice versa)


I'm thinking NO!!!

Sorry.
Ain't buying it.



RK

Yep, that's exactly what I said.....:rolleyes:

C'mon RK ;)

There's a method to the definition and sometimes it takes a grand jury to figure out.

There are questions that would have to be answered. Are you still hitting him? are you walking away? was it one punch?

It might not look good for you though, being as you initiated physical contact first.

You can throw all sorts of nontraditional scenarios and beat this to death, but it's better to just stick to reality.

Then again with NO witnesses it's all suspect.

charly_t
03-21-2012, 04:32 PM
So......if some jabrony chases me down, starts giving me crap, I knock him on his ass he can shoot me???
(or vice versa)


I'm thinking NO!!!

Sorry.
Ain't buying it.



RK

Ditto. Z made a big mistake and he will be paying for it one way or another for the rest of his life. I feel that he had friends on the police force which caused some of them to shall we say have sympathy for him. I don't want to lead this astray but we have police here on trial for treating a mentally retarded or mentally ill guy roughly while he was handcuffed to a chair in a hospital room here ( we have about the same size town as the other one ).
Their fellow officers can't protect them in this case since the hospital has the whole thing taped but there is no sound so it puts a little different light on things. I also know how my Dad felt about the police in this town when he was alive.

gmhr1
03-21-2012, 04:49 PM
I'm sure they took Zimmerman in questioned him and let him go based on what he said ( I dont think they just let him walk away that night) when looking at the bruises he had, they must have felt it was self defense. That kid was 17 I can just imagine how he must have acted sure it wasn't nice and polite. I can tell you from the kids in my daughters neighborhood they like to intimidate you all they can. I believe it was self defense . I would also like to know why it took his girlfriend a month to come up with her story seems like everybody wants their 15 min of fame you cant turn on the news without seeing his parents attorney telling us how this is all because he was a black kid.... really?

Hew
03-21-2012, 04:58 PM
I feel that he had friends on the police force which caused some of them to shall we say have sympathy for him.
My friend didn't say this exactly, but from what I inferred from his comments, the popo thought of Zimmerman as a wannabe, somewhat-pain-in-the-arse who often called 911 for marginal/trivial reasons in his capacity as a neighborhood watch guy.

Hew
03-21-2012, 05:07 PM
I'm sure they took Zimmerman in questioned him and let him go based on what he said ( I dont think they just let him walk away that night) when looking at the bruises he had, they must have felt it was self defense.
Exactly. He was interviewed by detectives that night. His version of the story corresponded with the physical evidence. There was no probable cause to give him a breathalyzer test (which critics are contending supposedly points to the ineptitude of the Sanford PD).

The Sanford PD is bracing for a big protest at their office that's supposed to take place this Monday and will have the usual suspects of "community activists".....which is kinda dumb since they should be protesting at the State Atty's office where they're trying to determine what charges, if any, should be brought.

charly_t
03-21-2012, 05:22 PM
My friend didn't say this exactly, but from what I inferred from his comments, the popo thought of Zimmerman as a wannabe, somewhat-pain-in-the-arse who often called 911 for marginal/trivial reasons in his capacity as a neighborhood watch guy.

Yes, but what Z experienced might have been a lot like some situations that happened to them ( a suspect turned on them ). In other words they could see things from his side. On another note Z will probably live in fear the rest of his life. I think he wanted to feel important ( famous might be a better word ).............and now he is but not how he had hoped it would be.

HPL
03-21-2012, 05:33 PM
If you are the one who escalates to physical violence, then perhaps, yes.

I'm tired of hearing folks say that Zimmmerman had no business confronting the young man. If we can't attempt to protect our property and that of others, then how can we ever have a civilized society. Reminds of the joke where someone asked a fellow why he got a carry permit and carried a pistol. He responded that cops were too heavy. The police can't be everywhere all the time.

Burglary is a real quality of life issue. I live in a small town (pop about 25,000) and burglary is rife here. I would guess that more than half of the folks I know have been victims of burglaries at some time of another. I own five rent properties, mostly rented to college students, not in crap neighborhoods, and among the five properties, there have been at least nine or ten burglaries over the last eight or nine years. I live in a neighborhood where some of the folks own their houses and some are rent properties. We have college professors, retired teachers, business owners, college students, tradesmen, etc. in the neighborhood. The house next door to me has been burglarized, as has the one next farther west, and the one across the street from that one. A block east of me a house that was being renovated had all the new windows stolen before they could be installed, a fellow a block north of me had his central AC compressor unit stolen. I've had two lawn mowers stolen, my insurance agent has had his office broken into twice, a friend's restaurant has been broken into at least once, and so on and so on. This is in all neighborhoods and pretty much every part of town. Some one manages to shoot one of these burglars, and I don't care if the little miscreant is 12 yrs old, I hope I get to be on the jury. The guy doing the shooting is not only going free, but he's going to get a hearty handshake from me. If we could go back to old time punishments like whipping on the courthouse lawn, much of this crap would stop. We could take a lesson from the muslims on some of this. I wouldn't cut folks' hands off as that keeps them from working, but about the third time they were convicted of burglary, I think I'd cut off their noses. Make them easy to recognize when they were in the neighborhood, and make them much less appealing to the girls which should be a big disincentive.

Matt McKenzie
03-21-2012, 05:38 PM
Yes, but what Z experienced might have been a lot like some situations that happened to them ( a suspect turned on them ). In other words they could see things from his side. On another note Z will probably live in fear the rest of his life. I think he wanted to feel important ( famous might be a better word ).............and now he is but not how he had hoped it would be.

Amazing how you can understand the motivation of the shooter as well as that of the cops all the way from Oklahoma (where the wind comes sweeping down the plains). You must have ESPN or something. Or is it some kind of mystical Native American thing?

charly_t
03-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Amazing how you can understand the motivation of the shooter as well as that of the cops all the way from Oklahoma (where the wind comes sweeping down the plains). You must have ESPN or something. Or is it some kind of mystical Native American thing?

Uuhhh, no just listened to the tapes from his 911 calls. Long life of watching people and their reactions etc. is very useful. No ESPN here in my house. I prefer to spin things for myself :-) No mystical help either. Human nature has not changed much over the years. A bully has always been a bully and always will be. A bully who wants to get attention is even worse. Just picking out a person at random to accuse of a robbery or robberies does not work. Lots of facts that some people are ignoring in this case. I never heard the kid say anything so who knows anything about his thoughts. I don't know what he said to his girl friend nor what she said to him so that does not enter into my thinking on this. I'm guessing that the lady who made the one call to 911 has more info that would prove very interesting. Background noise in her call is pretty clear so I'm guessing she saw or heard more than we know at this time. Now if it can be proven that the kid had been stealing things that will be a different story.

gmhr1
03-21-2012, 08:29 PM
Anderson Cooper had the guy on talking about the 8 burgleries in the last 15 months in this complex most of the suspects young black males. He also said had this kid been white, black, asian it wouldnt have mattered it would have been handled the same way. Zimmerman had to be more aware of this kid given the circumstances. In AZ we have the same law Thank Goodness we do.

We dont know Zimmermans side of the story because he's not plastered all over the TV getting people stirred into a frenzy.

Eric Johnson
03-21-2012, 10:19 PM
The police action in this case indicates their level of uncertainty over exactly what happened. They're going to let the prosecutors and the grand jury sort it out.

Mr. Z was in effect stalking the lad. Doesn't make any difference if he was involved in a burglary (which he apparently was not). Since Mr. Zimmerman was stalking Martin rather than standing his ground, the "Stand you ground" act won't be accepted as a defense.

Eric

troy schwab
03-22-2012, 07:15 AM
I'm tired of hearing folks say that Zimmmerman had no business confronting the young man. If we can't attempt to protect our property and that of others, then how can we ever have a civilized society. Reminds of the joke where someone asked a fellow why he got a carry permit and carried a pistol. He responded that cops were too heavy. The police can't be everywhere all the time.



He didnt have a right to confront the man..... he was walking down a sidewalk for God's sake. He wasnt on his property...... This is very simple. You people need to read up on the responsibilities of neighborhood watch groups....... they are to observe, that is it. Hence the name "watch". Depending on a lot of circumstances, maybe even I would have confronted him, but I sure wouldnt have resorted to violence, Zimmerman had the ability to retreat, which will also play big in this case. We'll see how it shakes out, but right now, in my mind, with the "facts" that I know, Z is wrong.

Matt McKenzie
03-22-2012, 07:21 AM
Cash, of course. ;-) You?

I like both versions pretty well, even though I can't say I really understand the lyrics. I wasn't as big on the Cash record with all the hard rock covers as most seem to be.

Dustin D
03-22-2012, 03:49 PM
Well I still stand by my earlier comments. I have to say this thought keeps crossing my mind.

Zimmerman escalated it by doing more than 'Watching/Reporting',
the end result of his escalation was the indeed the death of a teenager.
He decided to escalate the situation AFTER being told NOT TO by the 911 Operator(An Authority Figure of sorts) in which he called for SUPPORT in the first place.

However I still don't see the death of Trayvon as an intentional murder.

Z carries a weapon b/c it's his right to do so.(No intent to kill otherwise all of people that carry could constantly be pinned with intent to kill) It's a Constitutional Right protected by the Federal and State Goverments)
He got out of his car to keep an eye on the suspect so he could report it to the cops in which he requested call him on his cell phone so he could give them details of the suspects location.
While attempting to keep a constant visual(BAM! Ambush? maybe?) The fight is on...we know the rest...

Eitherway I don't see INTENT to kill which is required for Murder 1, Murder 2 or Voluntary Manslaughter.

I think a jury could find him guilty of;
Involuntary Manslaughter;

stems from unintentional, but criminally negligent behavior. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter. Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional," because the killer did not intend for a death to result from his intentional actions



/

troy schwab
03-23-2012, 10:53 AM
Doesn't President Obama have enought to do other than comment on this case he should have said No Comment & worry aout gas at 4 bucks a gallon! Everyone wants justice than GO home and let justice run its course. Shame on the PARENTS for letting these kids leave class and protest keep them in school they can plan their march after school or on a Saturday.

There..... fixed it for ya....... THE REAL PROBLEM!!!

JustinRobertTaylor
03-23-2012, 11:04 AM
Z may be safer in jail if they don't arrest him. I guarantee it's not safe for him around town and it shouldn't be. He has had many calls to police to report people, high % of them all black.

charly_t
03-23-2012, 12:47 PM
Z may be safer in jail if they don't arrest him. I guarantee it's not safe for him around town and it shouldn't be. He has had many calls to police to report people, high % of them all black.

I am sure that Z will never be safe anywhere from now on. Maybe in solitary !!!! but wouldn't bet on it either. He better find a good plastic surgeon, change his name, lose weight etc. Best for him to also change
countries. He has became a symbol for white on colored persecution and unpunished crimes. For those who are curiuos hunt up and read about the Tulsa race riots around the 1920s. Whites went on the rampage and
destroyed much of north Tulsa where a lot of colored lived. Whites did not
have a reason to do this. They just thought they did. It was a horrible
thing and ruined many colored lives. Blacks killed and businesses destroyed.
No one should wonder why we have problems now between the races.
There are bad people of all colors and/or races. This part of Oklahoma is
very racist.

Going to go read my new ( used actually ) book now..........Rattlesnakes by J. Frank Dobie. Have read it a few times before but gave my previous copy away.

JustinRobertTaylor
03-23-2012, 12:50 PM
They are having protest all over the country and mostly black colleges today for travon. Z done went and messed his life up.

Golddogs
03-23-2012, 04:32 PM
Z was following the boy. Z called 911 and reported a person of color walking in his neighborhood. Z closed and confronted the boy. The boy defended himself from an unknown person accosting him. Z pulls a weapon and kills the boy.


First rule of CC is avoid situations that may turn ugly. Z caused the situation to get physical. Z should at the very least be convicted of 1st degree manslaughter.

Z is a very stupid man.

Look for the exit first regards

Goose
03-23-2012, 05:10 PM
Obama said, "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon."

I'd like to thank Michelle for not giving him one.

We live in Cuba now.

bdwilliams
03-23-2012, 06:06 PM
We weren't there and don't know the details of what happened. It's a sad case and anything short of a conviction of Z is going to upset a lot of people (can't imagine a riot, though). Z obviously crossed the line (doing a bit more than the "watch" part of neighborhood watch). We can only assume what happened in the altercation, and without actual knowledge, I doubt there can be a conviction of murder. Perhaps manslaughter but I don't know.

All I know is that when I was 17, if some guy was following me late at night in the streets (I wouldn't have been in the streets but it's not illegal to do so...) I would've said something and a fight might've broken out.

If Z started it, like everyone is assuming he did... Well, you can't start a fight, shoot a guy when you get your A$$ handed to you, and claim self-defense.

Either way, thoughts and prayers go out to the kid's family.

Down East Labs 217
03-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Media justice is at it again. This is why I hate stories like this. Without even knowing the facts other than what the media is saying (they never have an agenda to sell their story) the whole world is convicting the man. He is still innocent until proven guilty.

Sandusky thread all over again.

My opinion

Richard

charly_t
03-23-2012, 06:49 PM
Z was following the boy. Z called 911 and reported a person of color walking in his neighborhood. Z closed and confronted the boy. The boy defended himself from an unknown person accosting him. Z pulls a weapon and kills the boy.


First rule of CC is avoid situations that may turn ugly. Z caused the situation to get physical. Z should at the very least be convicted of 1st degree manslaughter.

Z is a very stupid man.

Look for the exit first regards

Good post. Pretty much the way I see it.

Wonder how many hours it is in Florida before you are allowed to file a missing person's report. I can see where the parents, since they are divorced, might each think he was at the other one's home.

I read one person's post on another sight and he asked why the kid was even in that neighborhood. Like a person of color did not have a right to be there.
That is the kind of post that causes more upset people.

BonMallari
03-23-2012, 07:32 PM
Media justice is at it again. This is why I hate stories like this. Without even knowing the facts other than what the media is saying (they never have an agenda to sell their story) the whole world is convicting the man. He is still innocent until proven guilty.

Sandusky thread all over again.

My opinion

Richard

Yup Rev Al and his lynch mob are already forming,wanting their pound of flesh,almost like the Duke lacrosse rape case,going to be hard to get a fair trial

charly_t
03-23-2012, 07:53 PM
And people who really saw something and could clear some of this up will be very afraid to open their mouth. This will set back race relations in this country. It will make bad feelings between black and white neighbors all over the country. So very, very sad. Many mistakes made by more people than Z.
The boy's family will never be able to grieve and have any kind of closure either.

charly_t
03-23-2012, 08:48 PM
It's very clear from this thread that we all bring our own histories into how we feel about this case. Not many of us can judge without some bias. I have often been surprised by how people ( that I thought that I knew well ) would react when something came up between blacks and whites in this country. I once had a northern ( NE ) born and reared teacher who said that southerners were just keeping the blacks in their proper place as it should be.
So it is not always just the south who has racists but other parts of the country also. No wonder the colored races feel that they are being kept down by whites. Whites took my Indian side of the family's land and managed to get out of paying my family for it. What is worse is the whites had help from other Indians of the same tribe. Cherokees still fight among themselves to this day. It has carried for many generations. Is that racism ? Cherokees and Osages fought when the Cherokees came west.....was that racism ? If a lot of you search long enough or have DNA testing done you will find a colored person in your family tree.......... so can you be called a racist if you hate your own people ? How about the people like Z who are called white by some but not by others. Are they racists if they hate the side which has the darkest color in their family. Just rying to understand some people's thinking after reading posts on another web sight.

gmhr1
03-23-2012, 09:50 PM
I didnt even think of this case as a race issue until his father went on TV saying if his son had shot a white guy he would already be in jail than all of a sudden protests are going on .... why cant they just let the investigators do their job? His parents decided to play the race card if they want justice than sit back , wait for it and be willing to accept it

BentleysMom
03-23-2012, 11:46 PM
For me the issue is not color. The issue is self defense or not? Think about it, a gun or a bag of skittles??

Z followed this boy, confronted him and sure maybe the boy reacted to that but who wouldn't? I would be scared out of my mind if someone following me did that!

Besides, why carry a gun? Pepper spray or a fist might have worked better that night. A kid would still be with us today. His life is gone and for what? What did he do wrong? Whatever it was that Z thinks he was doing is not worth his life.

Breaks my heart...

BonMallari
03-24-2012, 01:48 AM
Here is the litmus test,if a black neighborhood watch guy shot A white kid, would there be this outrage, or what if Z had shot someone wearing a turban or a red PLO scarf, would there be the same outrage, this is just the kind of powderkeg that many would like to blow up and re ignite the riots from the early 90's in SoCal

It should be about the use of force but the media has played the race card to keep it on the front page

duckheads
03-24-2012, 07:42 AM
Why do the media say a white guy? Isn't Z a Peruvian? Wouldn't that make him Hispanic? How is it that he is white? Our President is a half white and they call him a black President. The media hype this shit up and turn a bad situation worse! Rodney King here we come!

dixidawg
03-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

charly_t
03-24-2012, 07:11 PM
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Thanks for the link. It was very interesting. Although I can't listen to the tapes on my computer I found much of relevance.

Down East Labs 217
03-24-2012, 07:20 PM
Just to stir the pot a little. What is our POTUS going to do if the media version is wrong and Z was in-fact leaving the area when the kid attacked him. This might not look good for the POTUS's son comment.

Rush to justice is a bad thing and guilty comments before the investigation is complete is stupid on everyones part. To include the POTUS making comments that are below the position of POTUS. Not his first time making the wrong comment at the wrong time. Beer in the Rose garden take two.

My opinion

Richard

Matt McKenzie
03-24-2012, 07:32 PM
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Dang. Seems like there might be more to the story than the media originally reported. Why didn't I see that coming? Oh, wait.....

luvmylabs23139
03-24-2012, 07:56 PM
So......if some jabrony chases me down, starts giving me crap, I knock him on his ass he can shoot me???
(or vice versa)


I'm thinking NO!!!

Sorry.
Ain't buying it.



RK

I someone chases me down well he will be pushing up daisies!!!! I'm not gonna wait for him to kill me. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

luvmylabs23139
03-24-2012, 08:07 PM
He didnt have a right to confront the man..... he was walking down a sidewalk for God's sake. He wasnt on his property...... This is very simple. You people need to read up on the responsibilities of neighborhood watch groups....... they are to observe, that is it. Hence the name "watch". Depending on a lot of circumstances, maybe even I would have confronted him, but I sure wouldnt have resorted to violence, Zimmerman had the ability to retreat, which will also play big in this case. We'll see how it shakes out, but right now, in my mind, with the "facts" that I know, Z is wrong.
Based on what is known I think Z was in the wrong. That being said we had an issue of breakins and we all knew who it was. If that person put one foot on my 5 acres (when he was not being chased by the police) he would have been shot or had A DOG control him.

JDogger
03-24-2012, 08:16 PM
Dang. Seems like there might me more to the story than the media originally reported. Why didn't I see that coming? Oh, wait.....

Uh-ah. tell me that again. JD

luvmylabs23139
03-24-2012, 08:24 PM
CNN just announced the new black panthers have a $10,000 reward for the capture of George Zimmerman wheres the Pres now he can stand up and tell us how if he had a son he would look like Trayvon why cant he make a statement that as a Nation we will not put up with this garbage. Is this justice?


Great, those idiots can poll block and nothing happens! When will they be held accountable for their actions. I'm waiting HOLDER!!!

luvmylabs23139
03-24-2012, 08:37 PM
I didnt even think of this case as a race issue until his father went on TV saying if his son had shot a white guy he would already be in jail than all of a sudden protests are going on .... why cant they just let the investigators do their job? His parents decided to play the race card if they want justice than sit back , wait for it and be willing to accept it


Ha if his son shot a white guy nobody whould have heard anything. It would not be a hate crime or anything. If a black kills a white no nothing cause that would be bad, blacks aren't committing crime based on race per the powers that be. SHHHHHH don;t say that.
5 BLACKS didn't gang rape a white female in S-itcago. NO no can't say that.

Eric Johnson
03-24-2012, 10:23 PM
If Zimmerman was following (stalking) Martin, agueably Martin would have had a case of "Stand your ground" and would have been able to shoot to defend himself. The fact that Zimmerman was "attacked" fits within that theory of the law.

Eric

charly_t
03-25-2012, 04:25 PM
Just an interesting link. I have not researched any of this.


http://www.topix.com/issue/trayvon-martin/austin

Dustin D
03-26-2012, 07:18 AM
Picture now surfacing showing what he looked like at the time of the shooting.

http://i40.tinypic.com/29y0ig.jpg

paul young
03-26-2012, 07:54 AM
did Trayvon have any kind of police record?-Paul

Dustin D
03-26-2012, 08:03 AM
did Trayvon have any kind of police record?-Paul

I haven't heard but there's more coming out about his apprent Drug Dealings?

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

Calls himself 'No Limit Nigga' on twitter and has screen shots of drug dealing conversations from Facebook to myspace. Also photo's of supposed gang related tattoos.

HPL
03-26-2012, 08:56 AM
Picture now surfacing showing what he looked like at the time of the shooting.

http://i40.tinypic.com/29y0ig.jpg
If those last two images are really of Martin, I can see why the family would want to use the ones from when he was 12 or 14. Shame on the media for attempting to portray this as a white guy (apparently actually Hispanic (who are actually often caucasian)) shooting and killing some little kid. (no real surprise though)

Brian Cockfield
03-26-2012, 09:29 AM
Dang. Seems like there might be more to the story than the media originally reported. Why didn't I see that coming? Oh, wait.....
What a shock! The media put their own spin on something? Say it ain't so! This whole case makes me sick to my stomach. The cries of racism, protesting, garbage coming out the President's mouth, etc. I hate the fact that a kid ended up dead but he wasn't nearly as innocent as his family and the media would have you believe. Like others have stated, I think Zimmerman was an idiot for handling the situation the way he did but based on the facts that have been reported, he is NOT guilty of murder.

road kill
03-26-2012, 10:29 AM
Could someone explain to me why the President of the United States is commenting on this pending police case before all the facts are released?:cool:

(rhetorical question)


RK

Matt McKenzie
03-26-2012, 10:32 AM
Never let a crisis go to waste. If it's not a crisis, make it one.

huntinman
03-26-2012, 10:39 AM
May be time for a beer summit in the Rose Garden:rolleyes:

Matt McKenzie
03-26-2012, 11:27 AM
What all the cool kids are wearing. That'll show those racist whities.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832

BonMallari
03-26-2012, 11:46 AM
Could someone explain to me why the President of the United States is commenting on this pending police case before all the facts are released?:cool:

(rhetorical question)


RK


even though it was rhetorical here is my answer : because he wants to control the narrative and the court of public opinion has already made their early rush to judgement, just like in the Duke lacrosse rape case...the only thing left is to string the guy up :rolleyes:

don't think for a moment that this Pres isn't playing the race card, it goes hand in hand with playing the class warfare card..How else are they going to portray the R nominee for POTUS, but as a "rich whitey looking to keep the brothers down" ( line loosely taken from Forrest Gump movie)

gmhr1
03-26-2012, 12:41 PM
Zimmerman said I think this kids on drugs.. Just in from CNN Martin was suspended from school for 10 days because a baggie in his book bag tested positive for marijuana..... truth will come out

His parents just held a press conference saying that the fact he had marijuana residue in a baggy had nothing to do with this.... nothing crimminal. They wanted the truth to come out hope they are ready for it it will be interesting to see if drugs were in his system that night. Now on the news its breaking news that George Zimmerman was beaten that night ( I heard this from the start) listen to the 911 call its clearly his ( Z's ) voice you hear screaming for help this little kid was 6'3 he did a lot of damage

mjh345
03-26-2012, 02:36 PM
Picture now surfacing showing what he looked like at the time of the shooting.

http://i40.tinypic.com/29y0ig.jpg

I wear hoodies a lot. Does that mean that Im a gangster, or that some of you open minded people would be suspicious of me if I were walking in your neighborhood?

Really we shouldn't judge people by their choice of apparrel

gmhr1
03-26-2012, 02:47 PM
I think people need to stop saying he was shot because he wore a hoodie he is dead because he attacked George Zimmerman. He didnt have to jump him break his nose and pound his head on the ground. We dont know the facts yet so we dont know if Z was just keeping an eye on his since he had called the police and if he was in or out of his truck. If you wear a hoodie or a dress you jump someone beat them up, you may get shot lesson here Dont jump people
If I was on my phone and was being followed by someone I would call 911 or tell the person I'm talking to to call This kid told his girlfriend I think I lost him which to me means he ran or hid why not just call the police.....

Julie R.
03-26-2012, 03:08 PM
Marc, since you're coming late to this party, no one on this thread opined that Trayvon was shot because he was wearing a hoodie. I think you're pretty safe wearing yours all you want. But if you think that's the only reason that racist Hispanic fellow shot him then I'm sure the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would welcome you into the fold and supply you with your very own race card ;-)

Franco
03-26-2012, 03:23 PM
Picture now surfacing showing what he looked like at the time of the shooting.

http://i40.tinypic.com/29y0ig.jpg

So, if Obama had a son, he would look like the guy on the bottom right.

BonMallari
03-26-2012, 03:28 PM
I wear hoodies a lot. Does that mean that Im a gangster, or that some of you open minded people would be suspicious of me if I were walking in your neighborhood?

Really we shouldn't judge people by their choice of apparrel



never took you for the Jeff Foiles type, mjh....:p:p


but lets see

Unabomber

Bill Bellechick

Phil Laak (pro poker player nicknamed the unabomber)

Robin Hood

Clubber Lang


Yup you're all a bunch of outlaws :D:D

Dustin D
03-26-2012, 03:30 PM
So, if Obama had a son, he would look like the guy on the bottom right.

I've been thinking that too.

Or maybe Obama meant his Myspace profile pic?

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Ax26X.jpg

HPL
03-26-2012, 05:31 PM
I wear hoodies a lot. Does that mean that Im a gangster, or that some of you open minded people would be suspicious of me if I were walking in your neighborhood?

Really we shouldn't judge people by their choice of apparrel


Looks to me like TREYVON might have been attempting to portray TREYVON as a gangster. Head tilted back, surly facial appearance and the shot with the blinged out teeth doesn't help much. Have to wonder where he got the scratch for that much gold. I certainly wouldn't have had that much to spend on something like that when I was 17. I am really getting tired of just seeing the football photo on the national news. Still haven't seen them show any of the current images out there.

Ken Bora
03-26-2012, 05:37 PM
..... Just in from CNN Martin was suspended from school for 10 days because a baggie in his book bag tested positive for marijuana..... "residue".......


you get suspended for residue these days? :rolleyes:
I seen on the news one time that over 50%
of our twenty dollar bills have cocain residue,
shoulda checked his lunch money as well.
Probly a kingpin or somptin'
better dig him up and shoot him a second time!:confused:

gmhr1
03-26-2012, 05:48 PM
If you have a baggy in your school bag that tests positive for marijuna I think suspension is a good place to start he may not have used maybe he only sells. His parents knew but failed to disclose that fact. I think it does matter since report to 911 said this kid is on drugs from the way he acted... time will tell

charly_t
03-26-2012, 06:03 PM
you get suspended for residue these days? :rolleyes:
I seen on the news one time that over 50%
of our twenty dollar bills have cocain residue,
shoulda checked his lunch money as well.
Probly a kingpin or somptin'
better dig him up and shoot him a second time!:confused:

Yep, and you notice no one is talking about Z's previous "problems" with the law. I still say that when somebody kills a person like this that the person ( Z ) doing the killing has robbed the dead person ( T ) of their right to a trial etc. The shooter became judge, jury and executioner. Wonder how many people yelling about the baggie with drug residue have used some kind of drugs in their life.

HPL
03-26-2012, 06:31 PM
Yep, and you notice no one is talking about Z's previous "problems" with the law. I still say that when somebody kills a person like this that the person ( Z ) doing the killing has robbed the dead person ( T ) of their right to a trial etc. The shooter became judge, jury and executioner. Wonder how many people yelling about the baggie with drug residue have used some kind of drugs in their life.
I wasn't paying much attention to this story in the beginning and when I then first started watching, I had the impression that some big, old, white guy had shot a little, black, (looked like junior high from all the photos I was seeing) kid for no apparent reason other than he was in the wrong neighborhood. That was and still is the image projected by the mainstream media. All of Treyvon's supporters have participated in that ruse and continue to do so. That fact alone makes me question their (Treyvons' supporters) story. It may have been foolish for Zimmerman to surveil Martin's actions, but certainly not illegal. Not even illegal for Zimmerman to ask Martin what he was doing in the neighborhood (again, foolish perhaps, but not illegal). As long as Zimmerman limited his actions to watching Martin or even asking him what he was doing, I think that Zimmerman was within his rights. Martin didn't have to answer, and certainly could have called the police himself if he felt threatened by Zimmerman's actions. Now we hear that there is pretty strong evidence that Martin hit Zimmerman in the face, knocked him to the ground, and may have been beating him. Once Martin escalated the encounter to a physical one (if indeed that is what occurred), then it is a whole different kind of situation and Zimmerman could very well have feared for his life and been justified in using deadly force. If you are a stranger in MY neighborhood and I approach you and ask you if I can help you and you then hit ME in the face and start punching me, I could very well feel that my live was in jeopardy and wish I was packing. As I am writing this, FOX news just flashed the photo of the 14yr old Treyvon on the screen again and THAT is NOT the person that Zimmerman found himself up against on that dark, rain-soaked night a month ago.

charly_t
03-26-2012, 06:54 PM
.................................................. ........and I approach you and ask you if I can help you...........................

So is that all Z did ? Z just asked T if he could help him ?

Matt McKenzie
03-26-2012, 07:53 PM
Tapes are as close as we can get to being there. What Z was saying to the 911 person make it pretty clear who he is and what he was thinking/doing. Then the call from the lady to 911 where she was calling for help in this instance. On this last tape you can clearly hear someone yelling "help, help, help". Then there are shots. "Just the facts, mam."

Turns out what you thought were the facts were not. Just as I said before, making assumptions based on minimal information is foolish and dangerous. I still don't know who was right and who was wrong in the case because I wasn't there and I don't think that I have all the information. None of us do.
But as I suspected, the original facts of the situation were misrepresented and lots of people (including our President, unfortunately) jumped on the "justice for Trayvon" bandwagon. But the truth is most of those people aren't interested in justice.
What's really sad is if it turns out that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, all the people who convicted him in the court of public opinion are going to be quiet as church mice because they will not have the courage or decency to publicly apologize for their words and actions.

Nate_C
03-26-2012, 08:17 PM
If you have a baggy in your school bag that tests positive for marijuna I think suspension is a good place to start he may not have used maybe he only sells. His parents knew but failed to disclose that fact. I think it does matter since report to 911 said this kid is on drugs from the way he acted... time will tell

What was he giggling too much? I smoked alot of pot when i was in High School and College too. So do a majority of kids. So did many people on this board. Being high on pot is not really noticable and doesn't make you threatening. This is just a lame attempt to vilify the kid. So is the picture. come on, who at 17 didn't want to look like a bad ass. He was still a kid and Mr. Z started it and caused the kids death. Heck maybe the kid went for the gun. If I was walking down the street and a guy came up behind me like that I turned and saw a gun I might go for it too in self defence. Doesn't the kid have the right to self defence too.

Down East Labs 217
03-26-2012, 08:38 PM
What was he giggling too much? I smoked alot of pot when i was in High School and College too. So do a majority of kids. So did many people on this board. Being high on pot is not really noticable and doesn't make you threatening. This is just a lame attempt to vilify the kid. So is the picture. come on, who at 17 didn't want to look like a bad ass. He was still a kid and Mr. Z started it and caused the kids death. Heck maybe the kid went for the gun. If I was walking down the street and a guy came up behind me like that I turned and saw a gun I might go for it too in self defence. Doesn't the kid have the right to self defence too.

I love it when people put there own twist on un-known facts. Nice try but media justice is wrong. Sit back and wait for the facts and results than make your statements with facts. You have no facts. You have what the media wants us to have.

My opinion

Richard

coachmo
03-26-2012, 08:41 PM
I have no idea as to all of the facts in this case and as many I will wait until all of the evidence has been compiled to make a judgement; however, Nate you appear to be the resident expert on pot smoking and how the majority of kids in college partake in this activity. Are you serious??

mngundog
03-26-2012, 08:45 PM
Turns out what you thought were the facts were not. Just as I said before, making assumptions based on minimal information is foolish and dangerous. I still don't know who was right and who was wrong in the case because I wasn't there and I don't think that I have all the information. None of us do.
But as I suspected, the original facts of the situation were misrepresented and lots of people (including our President, unfortunately) jumped on the "justice for Trayvon" bandwagon. But the truth is most of those people aren't interested in justice.
What's really sad is if it turns out that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, all the people who convicted him in the court of public opinion are going to be quiet as church mice because they will not have the courage or decency to publicly apologize for their words and actions.
So I guess now all the facts are in and you aren't making any assumptions. Is there a videotape out now, that I'm unaware of?

gmhr1
03-26-2012, 08:50 PM
Its starting to turn around today all of a sudden maybe there was a rush to judgement maybe the kid really did attack Z . Witnesses are backing up his story. He didnt have to attack the guy he could have just went to his Dads place and/or called the police Just like 911 told Z we dont need to follow him, they would have told the kid to stay away from him not to confront him. If so he would be alive today. No videotape yet but with cameras in the complex shouldn't there be one?

luvmylabs23139
03-26-2012, 09:30 PM
This is getting beyond it. Now a cop in another city gets suspended for making a comment about it on line.
What ever happened to free speach?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/orleans-police-officer-suspended-over-online-comments-trayvon-215328497.html

charly_t
03-26-2012, 10:04 PM
Turns out what you thought were the facts were not. Just as I said before, making assumptions based on minimal information is foolish and dangerous. I still don't know who was right and who was wrong in the case because I wasn't there and I don't think that I have all the information. None of us do.
But as I suspected, the original facts of the situation were misrepresented and lots of people (including our President, unfortunately) jumped on the "justice for Trayvon" bandwagon. But the truth is most of those people aren't interested in justice.
What's really sad is if it turns out that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, all the people who convicted him in the court of public opinion are going to be quiet as church mice because they will not have the courage or decency to publicly apologize for their words and actions.

So what in my post that you have quoted here is not a fact. Someone was yelling "help, help, help" on the tape where the lady called in. Z could be heard making comments on the 911 tape before that. In fact the tapes they played on that TV program were my first introduction to this story. It's true that they did not play all of Z's calls to law enforcement or 911.

Brian Cockfield
03-27-2012, 03:06 AM
Yep, and you notice no one is talking about Z's previous "problems" with the law. I still say that when somebody kills a person like this that the person ( Z ) doing the killing has robbed the dead person ( T ) of their right to a trial etc. The shooter became judge, jury and executioner. Wonder how many people yelling about the baggie with drug residue have used some kind of drugs in their life.
Since you seem to think Trayvon was such a victim, I would love to know what you would do if someone physically attacked you and you had a weapon to defend yourself. Have you ever been physically attacked? Have you ever had someone attacking you to the point that you felt your life was in danger? Judging by the tone of your posts, I can comfortably say no. As a law enforcement officer, I have been attacked and have been in Z's shoes so until you've been beaten to the point that you felt your life was in danger, I would standby on the Monday morning quarterbacking. That goes for you and everyone else who hasn't walked in Zimmerman's shoes. I don't necessarily think that Zimmerman did the right thing by approaching Trayvon but according to witnesses, Trayvon attacked him, not the other way around. For this reason alone, if Zimmerman felt his life was in danger, he had every right to do what he did. Zimmerman following and talking to Trayvon gave Trayvon absolutely no right to physically assault him.

Brian Cockfield
03-27-2012, 03:11 AM
What was he giggling too much? I smoked alot of pot when i was in High School and College too. So do a majority of kids. So did many people on this board. Being high on pot is not really noticable and doesn't make you threatening. This is just a lame attempt to vilify the kid. So is the picture. come on, who at 17 didn't want to look like a bad ass. He was still a kid and Mr. Z started it and caused the kids death. Heck maybe the kid went for the gun. If I was walking down the street and a guy came up behind me like that I turned and saw a gun I might go for it too in self defence. Doesn't the kid have the right to self defence too.
Give me a break.

Brian Cockfield
03-27-2012, 03:17 AM
So I guess now all the facts are in and you aren't making any assumptions. Is there a videotape out now, that I'm unaware of?
I don't think he is stating anything as fact, just another side of the grossly one sided tale that the media has portrayed. It's really sad that so many folks have sentenced Zimmerman and don't even come close to knowing the whole story. Shame on the media and everyone else making this case out to be cold blooded murder when all the facts aren't even in. The truth will come out eventually.

Matt McKenzie
03-27-2012, 05:25 AM
So I guess now all the facts are in and you aren't making any assumptions. Is there a videotape out now, that I'm unaware of?

Do we need to address the definition of "if"? Please read my post completely. I'll restate the passage you posted in red. "What's really sad is IF it turns out that....". I'm not sure how you got confused. I'll just assume that you were reading too quickly and overlooked it. Happens to me all the time.

road kill
03-27-2012, 07:41 AM
I wear hoodies a lot. Does that mean that Im a gangster, or that some of you open minded people would be suspicious of me if I were walking in your neighborhood?

Really we shouldn't judge people by their choice of apparrel

So.....if I need legal representation in a court of law and my Attorney shows up wearing a "hoodie" in the court room in front of the Judge, everything will be fine??:rolleyes:



All righty then............


RK

road kill
03-27-2012, 09:10 AM
Reverand Bryant's take;



Former NAACP leader accuses Sharpton and Jackson of ‘exploiting’ Trayvon Martin
Published: 2:17 PM 03/26/2012
By Alex Pappas - The Daily Caller



C.L. Bryant Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”

“His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.

The conservative black pastor who was once the chapter president of the Garland, Texas NAACP called Jackson and Sharpton “race hustlers” and said they are “acting as though they are buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy.”

Jackson, for example, recently said Martin’s death shows how “blacks are under attack” and “targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business.” (SEE ALSO: Jesse Jackson says Trayvon Martin ‘murdered and martyred’)

George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, killed Martin, a 17-year-old black man who was unarmed at the time of his death, last month. Zimmerman has claimed to have shot Martin in self-defense and has not been charged with a crime.

But Bryant, who explores the topic of black-on-black crime in his new film “Runaway Slave,” said people like Jackson and Sharpton are being misleading to suggest there is an epidemic of “white men killing black young men.”

“The epidemic is truly black on black crime,” Bryant said. “The greatest danger to the lives of young black men are young black men.”




Hey, what does he know, there is an election coming up!!


RK

road kill
03-27-2012, 11:14 AM
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee354/eduardochang/obamahoodie.jpg

Nuff said.........

RK

Sabireley
03-27-2012, 12:47 PM
Thankfully the Democrats in Congress are taking the bull by the horns and having a hearing. Now something will get done.

duk4me
03-27-2012, 01:21 PM
Nothing like a Mother's love. Seems she is applying for copyrights of phrases using Trayvon's name.

Matt McKenzie
03-27-2012, 01:58 PM
Nothing like a Mother's love. Seems she is applying for copyrights of phrases using Trayvon's name.

Might as well cash in on t-shirt sales, right?

road kill
03-27-2012, 02:00 PM
Might as well cash in on t-shirt sales, right?

NO........HOODIES!!!!!

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee354/eduardochang/obamahoodie.jpg

You know, I post something this spectacular and you guys don't even see it!!!!
It is NOT easy being this funny consistantly!!



RK

charly_t
03-27-2012, 02:10 PM
Since you seem to think Trayvon was such a victim, I would love to know what you would do if someone physically attacked you and you had a weapon to defend yourself. Have you ever been physically attacked? Have you ever had someone attacking you to the point that you felt your life was in danger? Judging by the tone of your posts, I can comfortably say no. As a law enforcement officer, I have been attacked and have been in Z's shoes so until you've been beaten to the point that you felt your life was in danger, I would standby on the Monday morning quarterbacking. That goes for you and everyone else who hasn't walked in Zimmerman's shoes. I don't necessarily think that Zimmerman did the right thing by approaching Trayvon but according to witnesses, Trayvon attacked him, not the other way around. For this reason alone, if Zimmerman felt his life was in danger, he had every right to do what he did. Zimmerman following and talking to Trayvon gave Trayvon absolutely no right to physically assault him.

Thank you so much for your post. No, other than kids scrapping at school I have never been attacked so , "No", I have no idea how it feels to realize that I might be killed. I do thank you for your service to your community.

And by the way........Many thanks for proving my point about the police being very sympathetic to Z in this case. You did it so well.

Gerry Clinchy
03-27-2012, 02:11 PM
The plot thickens ...

The New Black Panther Party has upped the bounty on Zimmerman to $1 million!! Yet, nobody in govt (state or fed) have uttered a word about the inappropriateness of such a bounty. I haven't read anything that says that Z has been evading authorities.

Meanwhile, as new information has come out, some Hispanics are wondering why their representatives are not standing up for Z. The media seem to be much happier concentrating on the fact that Z is white. Guess it's safer to pick on a white guy than an Hispanic guy.

charly_t
03-27-2012, 02:19 PM
The plot thickens ...

The New Black Panther Party has upped the bounty on Zimmerman to $1 million!! Yet, nobody in govt (state or fed) have uttered a word about the inappropriateness of such a bounty. I haven't read anything that says that Z has been evading authorities.

Meanwhile, as new information has come out, some Hispanics are wondering why their representatives are not standing up for Z. The media seem to be much happier concentrating on the fact that Z is white. Guess it's safer to pick on a white guy than an Hispanic guy.

This man has some good thoughts. I do not agree with all that he has said but it is still a good column.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1565560

Gerry Clinchy
03-27-2012, 02:19 PM
Further irony ... Zimmerman is a registered Democrat :-) Guess he doesn't follow the prevalent party line WRT gun rights.

gmhr1
03-27-2012, 02:20 PM
$ signs are all his parents are looking at. I can't believe we have a President that will allow a bunch of thugs to form a possee of 5000 people and place a million dollar Bounty on someone thats has not been charged with anything!!

Matt McKenzie
03-27-2012, 02:38 PM
This man has some good thoughts. I do not agree with all that he has said but it is still a good column.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1565560

Dr. Sowell is one of the brightest minds of our generation. We could all benefit from reading everything he writes.

Gerry Clinchy
03-27-2012, 02:39 PM
Charly, every time I've read Thomas Sowell, he seems very logcial and fair-minded.

charly_t
03-27-2012, 02:42 PM
Dr. Sowell is one of the brightest minds of our generation. We could all benefit from reading everything he writes.

I always appreciate his writings.

Marvin S
03-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Dr. Sowell is one of the brightest minds of our generation. We could all benefit from reading everything he writes.

Were more children of his heritage exposed to his body of work they would be much better for the experience.

gmhr1
03-28-2012, 11:06 AM
Spike Lee tweeted the wrong address for George Zimmerman now a couple that has nothing to do with this case has had to move out of their home. Hope they sue the pants off him.....

huntinman
03-28-2012, 11:08 AM
Spike Lee tweeted the wrong address for George Zimmerman now a couple that has nothing to do with this case has had to move out of their home. Hope they sue the pants off him.....

An Elderly couple at that...

Brian Cockfield
03-28-2012, 11:34 AM
Spike Lee tweeted the wrong address for George Zimmerman now a couple that has nothing to do with this case has had to move out of their home. Hope they sue the pants off him.....
Spike Lee, What a POS!

Raymond Little
03-28-2012, 01:05 PM
An Elderly couple at that...

If they are "Crackers" no harm, no foul, per Jessie/Al/SL.:rolleyes:

gmhr1
03-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Cant he (Spike Lee) be arrested for that? he endangered the lives of these people . I think we should all march and demand it that seems to be the american way. We can have tee shirts made and get the trademark for them so we can make a little extra money.

Matt McKenzie
03-28-2012, 01:54 PM
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/police-incident-report-fills-in-details-on-trayvon-martin-shooting/

A few more details come out.

troy schwab
03-28-2012, 02:13 PM
So he is being charged...... why dont they let that little tidbit out..... and calm all this BS....... just sayin

road kill
03-28-2012, 02:51 PM
At the risk of being viciously attacked by both sides, and losing my secret conservative board access code here is the way I see it.:cool:

Mr Zimmermen started a fight he could not finish.
As a result a man is dead.
Never a good thing, hoodie or not.
Too many things went wrong here.

What the laws were and any other speculation is just that, speculation.

The Race baiters have piled on ad nauseum.

I still don't see why the President of the United States had to weigh in on this, but much of what he does boggles my mind.

Having said that, it is 1 guy in FL.
Not every gun owner in America.

As far as Trayvon goes, where are his parents to teach him how to be a man?
That is a far bigger issue in America today than people who legally carry guns.


RK

Buzz
03-28-2012, 03:38 PM
At the risk of being viciously attacked by both sides, and losing my secret conservative board access code here is the way I see it.:cool:

Mr Zimmermen started a fight he could not finish.
As a result a man is dead.
Never a good thing, hoodie or not.
Too many things went wrong here.

What the laws were and any other speculation is just that, speculation.

The Race baiters have piled on ad nauseum.

I still don't see why the President of the United States had to way in on this, but much of what he does boggles my mind.

Having said that, it is 1 guy in FL.
Not every gun owner in America.

As far as Trayvon goes, where are his parents to teach him how to be a man?
That is a far bigger issue in America today than people who legally carry guns.


RK

The way I look at it, Florida has a stand your ground law.

So in this case, who did it apply to? The kid was pursued and was maybe scared or pi$$ed, I don't know. He felt threatened and stood his ground. In the process, Zimmerman maybe got his arse kicked. So, does "stand your ground now transfer to him instead of the one originally feeling threatened?

I recently heard some prosecutors commenting in FL that they hate this law because they feel it is license to gangs to have gunfights and get off because they "stood their ground." I am inclined to agree, it is a dumb arse law.

Cody Covey
03-28-2012, 04:12 PM
The way I look at it, Florida has a stand your ground law.

So in this case, who did it apply to? The kid was pursued and was maybe scared or pi$$ed, I don't know. He felt threatened and stood his ground. In the process, Zimmerman maybe got his arse kicked. So, does "stand your ground now transfer to him instead of the one originally feeling threatened?

I recently heard some prosecutors commenting in FL that they hate this law because they feel it is license to gangs to have gunfights and get off because they "stood their ground." I am inclined to agree, it is a dumb arse law.

Again that is not how it went down. The "KID" did the chasing not Zimmerman. Martin chased down Zimmerman to his truck and threw him to the ground while his back was turned...this has been stated by numerous witnesses. He felt so threatened by Zimmerman he felt the need to chase after him? Doubt it.

mngundog
03-28-2012, 04:22 PM
Again that is not how it went down. The "KID" did the chasing not Zimmerman. Martin chased down Zimmerman to his truck and threw him to the ground while his back was turned...this has been stated by numerous witnesses. He felt so threatened by Zimmerman he felt the need to chase after him? Doubt it.

Didn't Z call the police and say he was following Martin? Didn't Z have a gun? Didn't Martin call someone and say he was being followed?

Hew
03-28-2012, 04:33 PM
I recently heard some prosecutors commenting in FL that they hate this law because they feel it is license to gangs to have gunfights and get off because they "stood their ground." I am inclined to agree, it is a dumb arse law.
Gee, I wonder if those same prosecutors also worry about "Stand Your Ground" being applied to aquit someone for shooting a menacing Bigfoot....because that's about as likely as it being applied to gangbangers in a gunfight. Stand Your Ground has been in effect in Florida since 2005 and the earth hasn't spun off its axis yet. In seven years nobody outside of Florida had likely even heard of the law until last week, now everybody outside of Florida thinks it should be repealed. :rolleyes: I don't think Stand Your Ground will be applicable in this case as it ultimately came down to one guy on his back getting his head slammed repeatedly on the concrete and he used a gun to defend his life...a reasonable and legal standard in most, if not all, states.

Buzz
03-28-2012, 04:46 PM
Gee, I wonder if those same prosecutors also worry about "Stand Your Ground" being applied to aquit someone for shooting a menacing Bigfoot....because that's about as likely as it being applied to gangbangers in a gunfight. Stand Your Ground has been in effect in Florida since 2005 and the earth hasn't spun off its axis yet. In seven years nobody outside of Florida had likely even heard of the law until last week, now everybody outside of Florida thinks it should be repealed. :rolleyes: I don't think Stand Your Ground will be applicable in this case as it ultimately came down to one guy on his back getting his head slammed repeatedly on the concrete and he used a gun to defend his life...a reasonable and legal standard in most, if not all, states.

I knew about "stand your ground" while it was being debated in FL. But you're right, the majority of Americans live under a rock, (or in some TV/internet fantasy land) and have no idea what is going on outside their little world.

It takes a story like this that gets super hyped by the media to get their attention.

Cody Covey
03-28-2012, 06:04 PM
Didn't Z call the police and say he was following Martin? Didn't Z have a gun? Didn't Martin call someone and say he was being followed?

Yes and then he turned around and went back to his truck where he was attacked...do you have a point?

duk4me
03-28-2012, 06:16 PM
None of us were there. All we have is media reports which are either pro Trayvon or pro Zimmerman. I could argue either side.

I have an article in my office about a horse race in that article there is a picture of Mr and Mrs Bockmon and the story behind the horse. Funny thing is the story was totally misreported and the pic was of me and my sister in law. Media is for selling, nothing else.

This is why we have a justice system. Let it work folks.

Brian Cockfield
03-29-2012, 06:31 AM
None of us were there. All we have is media reports which are either pro Trayvon or pro Zimmerman. I could argue either side.

I have an article in my office about a horse race in that article there is a picture of Mr and Mrs Bockmon and the story behind the horse. Funny thing is the story was totally misreported and the pic was of me and my sister in law. Media is for selling, nothing else.

This is why we have a justice system. Let it work folks.
It's too late to let law enforcement and the prosecution do their job. Zimmerman has already been tried in the court of public opinion and has been convicted.

Blackstone
03-29-2012, 07:20 AM
It's too late to let law enforcement and the prosecution do their job. Zimmerman has already been tried in the court of public opinion and has been convicted.

The investigation, or lack thereof, should have been handled properly from the beginning. If it had, we wouldn't have the situation we have now. You can blame the media for sensationalizing this case, but without them, it's doubtful the facts of the case would ever come out.

troy schwab
03-29-2012, 07:30 AM
The investigation, or lack thereof, should have been handled properly from the beginning. If it had, we wouldn't have the situation we have now. You can blame the media for sensationalizing this case, but without them, it's doubtful the facts of the case would ever come out.

HAHA ..... thats laughable..... the media has done nothing to release any REAL facts. If that were the case, they wouldnt have shown his pee wee football picture over and over again, like it was an accurately dated pic. All the media has done is create a massive racial divide by twisting and turning the facts. The "facts" that HAVE come out, all seem to point at Martin as being the aggressor.......... WAAAAAAYYYYYY far from what the media would have led you to believe........ Just sayin.....

Brian Cockfield
03-29-2012, 07:38 AM
HAHA ..... thats laughable..... the media has done nothing to release any REAL facts. If that were the case, they wouldnt have shown his pee wee football picture over and over again, like it was an accurately dated pic. All the media has done is create a massive racial divide by twisting and turning the facts. The "facts" that HAVE come out, all seem to point at Martin as being the aggressor.......... WAAAAAAYYYYYY far from what the media would have led you to believe........ Just sayin.....
Couldn't agree more. Blackstone, I seriously hope you were having trouble keeping a straight face when you typed that response. Thank the media? Are you kidding me?

Dustin D
03-29-2012, 07:59 AM
How about this;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/congresswoman-cant-quite-remember-name-of-young-white-female-murder-victim-of-equal-concern-to-martin-case/#ooid=BnaWthNDqVDJJBvnUJZY26Gx-l2oR-kV

I'm suprised that Anchor wasn't fired on the SPOT! for daring to ask such a simple question.

troy schwab
03-29-2012, 08:13 AM
How about the white kid that got set on fire for being a "whitey"......... Happened earlier this month...... not a blip on the journalism front...... Our media is one of this country's biggest jokes........

huntinman
03-29-2012, 08:15 AM
How about this;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/congresswoman-cant-quite-remember-name-of-young-white-female-murder-victim-of-equal-concern-to-martin-case/#ooid=BnaWthNDqVDJJBvnUJZY26Gx-l2oR-kV

I'm suprised that Anchor wasn't fired on the SPOT! for daring to ask such a simple question.


How idiotic was that? That was a fine reresentation of our nation's lawmakmakers...

troy schwab
03-29-2012, 08:21 AM
How idiotic was that? That was a fine reresentation of our nation's lawmakmakers...

As was the hoodie appearing in Congress yesterday........ pathetic......

Blackstone
03-29-2012, 08:21 AM
The investigation, or lack thereof, should have been handled properly from the beginning. If it had, we wouldn't have the situation we have now. You can blame the media for sensationalizing this case, but without them, it's doubtful the facts of the case would ever come out.

I’m not saying the media isn’t sensationalizing the situation, but that’s how they make their money. However, they are also forcing new evidence in the case to be brought forward.

Have you watched the ABC News video of Zimmerman being brought to the police station for questioning? Where are all the injuries he claimed to have sustained in his life and death struggle with Martin? There are no visible cuts, bruises or blood. It does not back up his version of the story. Without the media, the tape would not have been released.

ABC News was the only one to interview the girl Martin was on the phone with when this all took place. According to her, the police have never interviewed her even though they knew she was on the phone at the time. Her account of what she heard while on the phone doesn’t match Zimmerman’s version of the event. Zimmerman claims to have lost sight of Martin. But, the girl claims to have heard Martin ask Zimmerman why he was following him. She also heard Zimmerman ask Martin what he was doing in that neighborhood. Immediately after that, the physical altercation took place. How did they have that verbal exchange if Zimmerman lost Martin? In Zimmerman’s version, you would have to believe that Martin chased down Zimmerman while continuing to talk to this girl on the phone, not logical. Zimmerman claimed Martin attacked him from behind, which if the girl’s account is accurate, would mean Zimmerman would have had to have had the verbal exchange with Martin with his back to Martin. Again, not logical. Don’t you face a person when you are talking to them?

None of us were there when this took place and we obviously don’t have all the facts, so all we can do is speculate. It will take a full forensic investigation to get at the truth. Obviously, the police weren’t going to conduct one, so the public is pushing for one.

Dustin D
03-29-2012, 08:22 AM
How about the white kid that got set on fire for being a "whitey"......... Happened earlier this month...... not a blip on the journalism front...... Our media is one of this country's biggest jokes........


Well they just convicted then young black man that murdered two British white guys in Florida.

There was more than once witness that stated the shooter made mention of "Two new crackers in the hood, I'm gunna rob them fools"

Yet this case was not considered a Hate Crime and will not go down statistically as one.

gmhr1
03-29-2012, 09:16 AM
The fool that wore the hoodie to Congress admitted he used to be a black panther in the 70's pretty sad when someone like that is elected. He said Trayvon was SHOT IN THE HEAD! I would never allow him back he showed total disrespect and the black lady congresswomen stated how she loves all children black, white even citied a case where a white girl was shot earleir this month and how involved she was in that case so the reporter put her on the spot by asking "what was that girls name" The black lady stumbled around looking to her aides for help and than just raised her voice and went on to the next subject.

Dont forget the 200+ kids that all rushed a walgreens store stealing, ransaking the whole place in Trayvons memory they are doing what they always want to do but now they just have an excuse.

Cody Covey
03-29-2012, 10:07 AM
I’m not saying the media isn’t sensationalizing the situation, but that’s how they make their money. However, they are also forcing new evidence in the case to be brought forward.

Have you watched the ABC News video of Zimmerman being brought to the police station for questioning? Where are all the injuries he claimed to have sustained in his life and death struggle with Martin? There are no visible cuts, bruises or blood. It does not back up his version of the story. Without the media, the tape would not have been released.

ABC News was the only one to interview the girl Martin was on the phone with when this all took place. According to her, the police have never interviewed her even though they knew she was on the phone at the time. Her account of what she heard while on the phone doesn’t match Zimmerman’s version of the event. Zimmerman claims to have lost sight of Martin. But, the girl claims to have heard Martin ask Zimmerman why he was following him. She also heard Zimmerman ask Martin what he was doing in that neighborhood. Immediately after that, the physical altercation took place. How did they have that verbal exchange if Zimmerman lost Martin? In Zimmerman’s version, you would have to believe that Martin chased down Zimmerman while continuing to talk to this girl on the phone, not logical. Zimmerman claimed Martin attacked him from behind, which if the girl’s account is accurate, would mean Zimmerman would have had to have had the verbal exchange with Martin with his back to Martin. Again, not logical. Don’t you face a person when you are talking to them?

None of us were there when this took place and we obviously don’t have all the facts, so all we can do is speculate. It will take a full forensic investigation to get at the truth. Obviously, the police weren’t going to conduct one, so the public is pushing for one.
Where do you think all these facts came from that the media is finding now? They came from the investigation the police did in fact do at the scene of the crime and when they took him into custody. This notion that the police did nothing and just let him walk free that night is ridiculous. I don't know why they didn't interview the girlfriend but I would assume they may not have known that she was talking to him but who knows? 6 people have confirmed Zimmermans version of the events but you are more trusting of a girl involved with the boy who was not even there but on the phone?

gmhr1
03-29-2012, 10:14 AM
Stick a fork in him he's done! No Matter which way this case goes his life is over.

Buzz
03-29-2012, 11:24 AM
Where do you think all these facts came from that the media is finding now? They came from the investigation the police did in fact do at the scene of the crime and when they took him into custody. This notion that the police did nothing and just let him walk free that night is ridiculous. I don't know why they didn't interview the girlfriend but I would assume they may not have known that she was talking to him but who knows? 6 people have confirmed Zimmermans version of the events but you are more trusting of a girl involved with the boy who was not even there but on the phone?

The police had his phone, so they in fact knew by his call history who he was on the phone with and when.

mudminnow
03-29-2012, 11:42 AM
I’m not saying the media isn’t sensationalizing the situation, but that’s how they make their money. However, they are also forcing new evidence in the case to be brought forward.

Have you watched the ABC News video of Zimmerman being brought to the police station for questioning? Where are all the injuries he claimed to have sustained in his life and death struggle with Martin? There are no visible cuts, bruises or blood. It does not back up his version of the story. Without the media, the tape would not have been released.

ABC News was the only one to interview the girl Martin was on the phone with when this all took place. According to her, the police have never interviewed her even though they knew she was on the phone at the time. Her account of what she heard while on the phone doesn’t match Zimmerman’s version of the event. Zimmerman claims to have lost sight of Martin. But, the girl claims to have heard Martin ask Zimmerman why he was following him. She also heard Zimmerman ask Martin what he was doing in that neighborhood. Immediately after that, the physical altercation took place. How did they have that verbal exchange if Zimmerman lost Martin? In Zimmerman’s version, you would have to believe that Martin chased down Zimmerman while continuing to talk to this girl on the phone, not logical. Zimmerman claimed Martin attacked him from behind, which if the girl’s account is accurate, would mean Zimmerman would have had to have had the verbal exchange with Martin with his back to Martin. Again, not logical. Don’t you face a person when you are talking to them?

None of us were there when this took place and we obviously don’t have all the facts, so all we can do is speculate. It will take a full forensic investigation to get at the truth. Obviously, the police weren’t going to conduct one, so the public is pushing for one.

That video is poor quality and you can't tell what the injuries if any look like. You never get a good shot of his face where you could see bruising. You can see the cop look at the back of his head for a few seconds very intently which suggests some sort of wound i think. That video was four hours after the incident and he already had first aid, so he wont look too bad anyway. just my two cents

Buzz
03-29-2012, 01:12 PM
That video is poor quality and you can't tell what the injuries if any look like. You never get a good shot of his face where you could see bruising. You can see the cop look at the back of his head for a few seconds very intently which suggests some sort of wound i think. That video was four hours after the incident and he already had first aid, so he wont look too bad anyway. just my two cents

A mug shot would be much clearer. And unless the PD or Zimmerman are totally incompetent, there are pictures of any injuries to document them.

I heard Z had a broken nose? I broke mine playing football. There was a significant amount of blood, and believe me a little goes a long way toward getting all over you and everywhere else.

Hew
03-29-2012, 01:15 PM
That video is poor quality and you can't tell what the injuries if any look like. You never get a good shot of his face where you could see bruising. You can see the cop look at the back of his head for a few seconds very intently which suggests some sort of wound i think. That video was four hours after the incident and he already had first aid, so he wont look too bad anyway. just my two cents
Beyond that, he was treated at the scene by paramedics.

I dunno, I think the video proves that Trayvon wasn't even shot since there's none of Trayvon's blood visible on Zimmerman, either. :rolleyes: But yeah, let's convict/aquit the guy based on a grainy video instead of what the police and witnesses say.

Buzz
03-29-2012, 01:27 PM
Don't know what I was thinking in my above post, there would be no mug shot. But any injuries should be well documented so no one should have to rely on a grainy low quality video.

Franco
03-29-2012, 01:56 PM
This link from National Review explains why this shooting is receiving so much attention!

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/294726/media-and-black-homicide-victims-heather-mac-donald

road kill
03-29-2012, 02:19 PM
Wonder why Al and Jesse and Barry ain't all fired up over this one??
This is CLEARLY a racially motivated "HATE" crime.




Shawn Tyson, Florida Teenager, Gets Life Sentence For Killing British Tourists James Cooper and James Kouzaris


SARASOTA, Fla. -- In a case that generated blaring tabloid headlines in the U.K. press, a Florida teen is facing life in prison without parole for murdering two young British tourists who got lost and wandered into a housing project where their convicted killer lived.

After an eight-day trial, a jury on Wednesday convicted 17-year-old Shawn Tyson of two counts of first-degree murder in the shooting of James Cooper, 25, and James Kouzaris, 24, last April.

The two men were on a three-week Sarasota holiday and spent an evening drinking when they got lost.

Both were considered fun-loving world travelers by those who knew them. Their friends Paul Davis and Joe Hallett said the pair had a knack for making friends with people of all ages and races. Cooper had traveled to Australia and loved tennis; he was a tennis pro in his hometown and had played against countryman Andy Murray. Kouzaris played rugby, taught English in Taiwan and had traveled through Central America prior to visiting Sarasota.

The men were in Florida staying with Cooper's family on a Gulf coast beach near Sarasota and on April 15, they dined and drank downtown.

Authorities said both were drunk when they got lost and accidentally wandered just before 3 a.m. into the housing project where Tyson lived.

Witnesses testified that Tyson told them he saw two "crackers" – a derogatory term for white people – walking through the neighborhood and that he intended to rob them. The tourists said they didn't have any money and begged Tyson to let them go home. The men also told Tyson they were lost.

"Since you ain't got no money, then I have something for your ass," Tyson recounted to a witness, then added that he shot the men several times.

Hallett said friends and family were thankful for the support provided by Sarasota police and municipal officials.





That right there.....that's different!!!


RK

Buzz
03-29-2012, 02:31 PM
I see a big difference that you may not have noticed.


Shawn Tyson, Florida Teenager, Gets Life Sentence For Killing British Tourists James Cooper and James Kouzaris


SARASOTA, Fla. -- In a case that generated blaring tabloid headlines in the U.K. press, a Florida teen is facing life in prison without parole for murdering two young British tourists who got lost and wandered into a housing project where their convicted killer lived.

After an eight-day trial, a jury on Wednesday convicted 17-year-old Shawn Tyson of two counts of first-degree murder in the shooting of James Cooper, 25, and James Kouzaris, 24, last April.

road kill
03-29-2012, 02:48 PM
I see a big difference that you may not have noticed.

What I noticed is the LACK of outrage, threats, bountys, chaos in a Walgreens, Spike Lee tweets etc.

Maybe YOU missed that!!

But hey, spin away, if it makes you FEEL good!!!:D


RK

luvmylabs23139
03-29-2012, 05:24 PM
What I noticed is the LACK of outrage, threats, bountys, chaos in a Walgreens, Spike Lee tweets etc.

Maybe YOU missed that!!

But hey, spin away, if it makes you FEEL good!!!:D


RK

What was missed was also labeling it a hate crime. Oh yeah, only if the victim is a minority. What gives wih that crap?:confused:

Matt McKenzie
03-29-2012, 06:07 PM
It's pretty interesting to go back and read this thread from the beginning. Each of us could learn something from it.

charly_t
03-29-2012, 06:48 PM
It's pretty interesting to go back and read this thread from the beginning. Each of us could learn something from it.

You got that right.

road kill
03-29-2012, 07:05 PM
I stand by my original observation.

RK

Buzz
03-29-2012, 07:30 PM
I stand by my original observation.

RK

On that I think we agree. All the other stuff is sensationalism.

JDogger
03-29-2012, 09:29 PM
I stand by my original observation.

RK

We're all glad you feel good, Stan. Welcome to RTF.:p I'm relaxed, are you? JD

charly_t
03-29-2012, 09:43 PM
I stand by my original observation.

RK

I've learned not to keep talking till I have all the facts :-) NOT. I'm too old to change. I still think what I suggested to you may be a possibility. I have been wrong so many times in my life that another time does not matter, vbeg.

Blackstone
03-29-2012, 11:39 PM
Where do you think all these facts came from that the media is finding now? They came from the investigation the police did in fact do at the scene of the crime and when they took him into custody. This notion that the police did nothing and just let him walk free that night is ridiculous. I don't know why they didn't interview the girlfriend but I would assume they may not have known that she was talking to him but who knows? 6 people have confirmed Zimmermans version of the events but you are more trusting of a girl involved with the boy who was not even there but on the phone?

What was clear from the video is there wasn't even a band-aid on Zimmerman. If he had a gash in the back of his head, don't you think there would have been some evidence of it? What about the broken nose? His nose looked the same as it did in every other picture of him. If it had been broken, there would have been swelling and bruising, and perhaps blood on his shirt. None of that is in evidence. First aid could not have fixed that. The video was of good enough quality to show some evidence of the injuries he claims he sustained. Wouldn’t he have been in pain from those injuries? He certainly didn’t move like he was in pain.

I have not seen any eye witness accounts that confirm Martin threw the first punch or attacked Zimmerman. Can you post links to those eye witness accounts?

road kill
03-30-2012, 05:34 AM
We're all glad you feel good, Stan. Welcome to RTF.:p I'm relaxed, are you? JD

Let's put it this way, I feel good enough about myself that I don't self medicate......EVERY DAY!!!


Not every one here can say that, can they JD???:rolleyes:



RK

dback
03-30-2012, 07:51 AM
What was clear from the video is there wasn't even a band-aid on Zimmerman. If he had a gash in the back of his head, don't you think there would have been some evidence of it? What about the broken nose? His nose looked the same as it did in every other picture of him. If it had been broken, there would have been swelling and bruising, and perhaps blood on his shirt. None of that is in evidence. First aid could not have fixed that. The video was of good enough quality to show some evidence of the injuries he claims he sustained. Wouldn’t he have been in pain from those injuries? He certainly didn’t move like he was in pain.

I have not seen any eye witness accounts that confirm Martin threw the first punch or attacked Zimmerman. Can you post links to those eye witness accounts?

http://www.kfyi.com/pages/jimsharpe.html?article=9967729
Now look at the video again and you will clearly see it.

According to my sons......take it for what it's worth.
Paramedic: We don't do much with a broken nose......some bleed lots, some not at all....some we know are broken, some we don't. We stop all bleeding and clean them up (especially if they are going into a squad car). Whether or not they accept further medical treatment is up to them.

PD Officer: "Daumn rights you stop the bleeding and clean him up......don't want the POS (Not referring to Z in particular here) bleeding in my car."

I've never seen the official police report.......has anyone?

troy schwab
03-30-2012, 07:56 AM
They have released part of the report..... shows what he was intially charged with and a list of witnesses (5 or 6 ) I believe...... Have not seen the complete report......

Dustin D
03-30-2012, 07:59 AM
Zimmerman's brother on CNN said with confidence that the Medical Records will show without question the injuries his brother received.

So where is Trayvon's Tox Screen that was done?

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/622/03/622_1333029299.jpg

Dustin D
03-30-2012, 08:53 AM
Not sure how accurate this is but at least it helps provide some visual aid to the surrounding area.

Click HERE (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=m&source=embed&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=203577346167583507267.0004bbdcc7c71244ae865)

I find it better to view it from Satellite.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 10:25 AM
According to one reporter George Z paid the witness's off and caused his own injuries of course this person was black.

Yeah, and you just can't trust black people. :rolleyes:

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 10:36 AM
Yeah, and you just can't trust black people. :rolleyes:

Don't be dumb you know thats not what he meant. The willingness of the black community, whether that be a vocal minority or a majority of it, to repeatedly convict someone in the court of public opinion when facts are not all in and more importantly as we know them now exonerate the person is astounding. This is going to be the Duke LaCross case all over again and all of these racist race baiters will go quitely into the night without so much as an apology to Mr. Zimmerman. They will just sit and wait until the next crime, or lack of one, is committed against someone black. If you don't have a problem with this that is your choice, but it is getting ridiculous very quickly (read about 20 years ago or so now). The only thing the race baiters have gotten right so far is that he was unarmed with some skittles. Everything else has come back as false and further shows the police as doing their job.

ARay11
03-30-2012, 10:41 AM
but but but.... it had to be about race....right?? what else would it be???

If Z were actually defending himself, his home, and his neighbors, it just wouldnt be sensational...and where would that leave the media?

Come to Oklahoma... Google burglary rates for Midwest City, OK. Multiple burglars have been shot and killed for entering homes recently. Crime rate is headed south. Wonder why.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 11:05 AM
http://www.kfyi.com/pages/jimsharpe.html?article=9967729
Now look at the video again and you will clearly see it.

According to my sons......take it for what it's worth.
Paramedic: We don't do much with a broken nose......some bleed lots, some not at all....some we know are broken, some we don't. We stop all bleeding and clean them up (especially if they are going into a squad car). Whether or not they accept further medical treatment is up to them.

PD Officer: "Daumn rights you stop the bleeding and clean him up......don't want the POS (Not referring to Z in particular here) bleeding in my car."

I've never seen the official police report.......has anyone?

You need to watch the entire video, not a just a still from the video. The mark you are talking about appears to be caused by the lighting, and how the lights reflects off Zimmerman’s head. There are views of the back of his head where that mark is not visible. It isn’t visible when he is backing up to the wall. It isn’t visible when he’s walking toward the door going out of the garage area. In both cases, you have a good look at the back of his head. And, if you watch the bald cop’s head, you see similar marks appear and disappear as he moves and the light hits his head from different angles. Few people have heads that are completely smooth. Any crease, ripple, or irregularity can cause a shadow depending on how the light hits it. If Zimmerman had a gash that large on the back of his head it would have been visible from all angles, and would not change as he moved. There is no bandage, and there’s no sign of any blood down the back of his shirt.

duk4me
03-30-2012, 11:09 AM
Spike Lee apologized and reached a financial settlement with the couple that he tweeted their address as Z's. I still think if they had been physically harmed ol Spike would be in a heap of trouble without the settlement.

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 11:13 AM
You need to watch the entire video, not a just a still from the video. The mark you are talking about appears to be caused by the lighting, and how the lights reflects off Zimmerman’s head. There are views of the back of his head where that mark is not visible. It isn’t visible when he is backing up to the wall. It isn’t visible when he’s walking toward the door going out of the garage area. In both cases, you have a good look at the back of his head. And, if you watch the bald cop’s head, you see similar marks appear and disappear as he moves and the light hits his head from different angles. Few people have heads that are completely smooth. Any crease, ripple, or irregularity can cause a shadow depending on how the light hits it. If Zimmerman had a gash that large on the back of his head it would have been visible from all angles, and would not change as he moved. There is no bandage, and there’s no sign of any blood down the back of his shirt.

So its your believe that everyone, Mr. Zimmerman, all the officers and all the witnesses, oh and apparently a medical report are all lying?

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 11:29 AM
Don't be dumb you know thats not what he meant. The willingness of the black community, whether that be a vocal minority or a majority of it, to repeatedly convict someone in the court of public opinion when facts are not all in and more importantly as we know them now exonerate the person is astounding. This is going to be the Duke LaCross case all over again and all of these racist race baiters will go quitely into the night without so much as an apology to Mr. Zimmerman. They will just sit and wait until the next crime, or lack of one, is committed against someone black. If you don't have a problem with this that is your choice, but it is getting ridiculous very quickly (read about 20 years ago or so now). The only thing the race baiters have gotten right so far is that he was unarmed with some skittles. Everything else has come back as false and further shows the police as doing their job.

No, I don't know that's not what was meant. I just know what was written, and what it implied. And, convicting someone in the court of public opinion is not limited to the black community. Heck, many in the white community are still upset O.J. got off. I think some people even brought it up on this thread.

But, I'm not concerned with the court of public opinion. I just want a full and fair investigation into the matter. Take all the evidence into consideration, and let the chips fall where they may.

Did you ever post the link to the eye witness accounts to who threw the first punch?

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 11:30 AM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 11:47 AM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

That’s your proof? So, it’s gone from 5 – 6 witness down to 1. But, we’ll go with the statement of your 1 witness. Please point out where in the article the witness said he saw who threw the first punch or how the altercation started. As far as I know, no one has come forward and said they saw how the fight started. Now, give us the links to the officers’ statements and the medical report that backs Zimmerman’s account of what happened.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 11:55 AM
I saw the close up picture not the video its a nasty wound on his head and if you pay attention the the video you will see his nose swollen up.

They have interviewed a witness, John he is the only one I have heard from that actually saw The guy in the red jacket ((Z) on the ground being beaten up by the person on top in the lighter shirt (T) they dont want to spend a lot of time on him because he confirms Z's story they would rather find someone who can shed doubt. The injustice of this case the one sided reporting that is unfair. Trayvons parents attorney can go on TV say anything they want and no one seems to object. 34 days no arrest no charges must not be that clear as to what happened.

Like I said, you have to look at the video, not the still. That mark appears and disappears depending on how the light hits his head. A nasty would would not do that. Besides, if was a wound that large and that severe, wouldn't it be bandaged?

The witness in question had no idea how, or what, started the fight. He saw the fight AFTER it began. Plus, he did not see the actual shooting. There were also 2 women interviewed by Anderson Cooper that claimed they saw Zimmerman on his knees over Martin's body right after the shots were fired. No one has spent a lot of time on them either, so it's not that one sided.

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 12:00 PM
No per the police report there were several witnesses. That just happens to be one that has spoken to the press. Officers have stated that all witness accounts and injuries on Zimmerman led them to believe that what Zimmerman said happened is what actually happened.


According to the initial police report, Zimmerman, 28, told police he was screaming for help and that no one would help him. The report also said Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head.

Officials said in the report that Zimmerman's back appeared wet and that he was covered in grass.

But you think everyone but the family is lying...

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 12:01 PM
but but but.... it had to be about race....right?? what else would it be???

I don't know if it was or not. But, didn't Zimmerman utter a racial slur on the 911 tape? Maybe that's what's leading some people to believe it was about race.


Come to Oklahoma... Google burglary rates for Midwest City, OK. Multiple burglars have been shot and killed for entering homes recently. Crime rate is headed south. Wonder why.

But, Martin want' breaking into anyone's home. He was walking down the street with a bag of skiddles and an ice tea.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 12:26 PM
I haven't heard from anyone who saw what happened from the start.... thats why the Investigators have to talk to everyone and look at all the reports something we have not heard anything about... yet Most people I know are not demanding the arrest they want someone to get all the facts first but to say Z didnt have any injuries or he made the whole fight up is ridiculous there are several witness's that heard and saw the fighting and he has the injuries to back it up.

as for the police video I watched an show last nigh called Jail there was a fellow with cuts all over his head up close you could see the cuts, blood as soon as he walked a few steps away you couldnt see anything. I trust a still CLOSE up picture more than the video in which you can barely make out anything.

I think a full and fair investigation is all most people want. The reason there is such an uproar is because that didn't happen.

I'm not saying there was no fight.. There obviously was. The question is who started it. There is also a witness that said Zimmerman walked toward him after the shooting, and he saw no visible injuries. And, again, there are no visible injuries showing in the video.

You can't discredit the video of Zimmerman because of the video you saw in some TV show unless they were taken with the same camera, or at least under the same lighting conditions. Believe what you want, but the video, in this case, actully clarifies what appears in the still photo. Cuts don't appear and then disappear depending on the angle. Also, why does the same kind of mark appear on the head of the bald cop? I wonder who hit him in the head?

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 12:36 PM
No its not the 911 call that put race into this its Trayvons parents saying all this cover up is because their son is Black . They said if this was a black man that killed a white man it would be different.

So, the racial slur by Zimmerman was unimportant in putting race into it? :rolleyes:

I'm not saying Travon's parents are correct about the race issue in this case, but historical, there have been cases that were handled exactly that way.

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 12:39 PM
The way the investigation happened is the way they always happen. I am not sure why you and others think that because the kid was black there should be a different set of standards for the investigation. Whenever we hear in the local news of someone shooting someone in self defense as long as their story lines up with physical evidence and/or witnesses then usually no one is even put into hand cuffs as was the case here. In this case MORE investigation happened than is normal for this type of shooting. What MORE do you guys want. Hold him indefinitely? He said self-defense, the physical evidence and witness accounts line up with this, why would they then throw him in jail?

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 12:47 PM
So, the racial slur by Zimmerman was unimportant in putting race into it? :rolleyes:

I'm not saying Travon's parents are correct about the race issue in this case, but historical, there have been cases that were handled exactly that way.
What racial slur are you talking about? The one where people THOUGHT he said coons but an expert has confirmed that he actually said punks? Again your side needs to quit grasping at straws and realize you are very possibly wrong.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 12:50 PM
The way the investigation happened is the way they always happen. I am not sure why you and others think that because the kid was black there should be a different set of standards for the investigation. Whenever we hear in the local news of someone shooting someone in self defense as long as their story lines up with physical evidence and/or witnesses then usually no one is even put into hand cuffs as was the case here. In this case MORE investigation happened than is normal for this type of shooting. What MORE do you guys want. Hold him indefinitely? He said self-defense, the physical evidence and witness accounts line up with this, why would they then throw him in jail?

I never said anything about a different set of standards because Martin was black. I just want a full investigation. But, you keep citing all the physical evidence and witness accounts, but can't seem to produce any that backs up Zimmerman's story. And, don't forget there are other witnesses that refute the validity of Zimmerman's version of the story, or don't their accounts mean anything?

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 01:00 PM
I keep telling you that the police report suggests injuries and they have stated that the witnesses accounts back up what Zimmerman said. You didn't say anything about different standards but seem to want them. You honestly believe they just let a guy go without figuring out what happened? At least to the best of their ability at the scene of the crime. They didn't find enough to hold him and let him go...which seems to be standard procedure at least if what happens here, which is what seems to have happened in Florida, is standard.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 01:06 PM
What racial slur are you talking about? The one where people THOUGHT he said coons but an expert has confirmed that he actually said punks? Again your side needs to quit grasping at straws and realize you are very possibly wrong.

My side? Which side would that be? Don't presume to know me or what "side" I'm on.

charly_t
03-30-2012, 01:10 PM
I keep telling you that the police report suggests injuries and they have stated that the witnesses accounts back up what Zimmerman said. You didn't say anything about different standards but seem to want them. You honestly believe they just let a guy go without figuring out what happened? At least to the best of their ability at the scene of the crime. They didn't find enough to hold him and let him go...which seems to be standard procedure at least if what happens here, which is what seems to have happened in Florida, is standard.

Let me add a rumor, lol. I read this someplace and it for sure is not verified. 'Local policeman wanted to hold Z but he was told by someone higher up the food chain to turn him loose'. Then I read another rumor that a member of Z's family is a judge.

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 01:11 PM
So you aren't on the side that he should be arrested and he is in the wrong. Odd since you have been arguing for that.

Where are the witnesses that refuted Zimmerman's story. I looked around and saw some vague references to it but no articles stating what exactly was being refuted and nothing coming out of the police station that there was anything that didn't back up Zimmerman's story. I would like to read them if there are any. They are obviously just as relevant as those that support his claim but they have not really been mentioned at all yet, again other than some articles that mention it but don't say where it is coming from.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 01:15 PM
I keep telling you that the police report suggests injuries and they have stated that the witnesses accounts back up what Zimmerman said. You didn't say anything about different standards but seem to want them. You honestly believe they just let a guy go without figuring out what happened? At least to the best of their ability at the scene of the crime. They didn't find enough to hold him and let him go...which seems to be standard procedure at least if what happens here, which is what seems to have happened in Florida, is standard.

Yeah, you keep telling me, but I haven't seen anything that supports what you're saying. Your 5 or 6 witnesses turned into 1 witness that didn't see how the fight started. You keep referencing police reports and medical reports that, to my knowledge, haven't been released.

As far as the police doing their best at the scene of the crime, ABC News reported:

- The police had the cell phone number and call logs of the girl Martin was on the phone with at the time he was shot, but never interviewed her.

- The police originally withheld the 911 tapes.

- They sent a narcotics investigator to the crime scene instead of a homicide investigator.

- They never tested Zimmerman for drugs or alcohol after the shooting.

Sounds like a thorough investigation to me. :rolleyes:

troy schwab
03-30-2012, 01:20 PM
Yeah, you keep telling me, but I haven't seen anything that supports what you're saying. Your 5 or 6 witnesses turned into 1 witness that didn't see how the fight started. You keep referencing police reports and medical reports that, to my knowledge, haven't been released.

As far as the police doing their best at the scene of the crime, ABC News reported:

- The police had the cell phone number and call logs of the girl Martin was on the phone with at the time he was shot, but never interviewed her.

- The police originally withheld the 911 tapes.

- They sent a narcotics investigator to the crime scene instead of a homicide investigator.

- They never tested Zimmerman for drugs or alcohol after the shooting.

Sounds like a thorough investigation to me. :rolleyes:

Blackstone,
Why not do some research yourself, rather than relying on hearsay...... if you google trayvon martin police report........ that was tough.......Im sure you will find the partial report that WAS released a few days ago. That report lists 5 or 6 (cant remember) witnesses....... Hearsay, hearsay, hearsay.......... Geez

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 01:27 PM
There were 7 witnesses per the police report. you can read for yourself here
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/30793508/detail.html

I can't comment on why they didn't call the girlfriend...your right probably an oversight.

Why the hell would they immediately release the tapes? Of course they withheld them. And either way how does that mark a lacking investigation?

No idea why they sent a narc but for initial investigation does it matter? Zimmerman was questioned witnesses were question and apparently Zimmerman was foudn to be in the right...at least initially.

Drug and alcohol tests are standard for a self-defense shooting?

........

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 01:40 PM
So you aren't on the side that he should be arrested and he is in the wrong. Odd since you have been arguing for that.

Where are the witnesses that refuted Zimmerman's story. I looked around and saw some vague references to it but no articles stating what exactly was being refuted and nothing coming out of the police station that there was anything that didn't back up Zimmerman's story. I would like to read them if there are any. They are obviously just as relevant as those that support his claim but they have not really been mentioned at all yet, again other than some articles that mention it but don't say where it is coming from.

Please point out where I called for Zimmerman's arrest. I stated several times that all I wanted was a full and fair investigation. If the investigation supports Zimmerman's story, then I'm okay with that. If it doesn't, he should be arrested and prosecuted. That is how our legal system is supposed to work.

Read the article at the attached link. Notice this witness says Zimmerman appeared to be uninjured, and no blood was visible.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-witness-casts-doubt-on-shooters-self-defense-claims/

Here's a witness account that claims Zimmerman was on his knees on top, and straddle Martin right after the shot was fired.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anderson-cooper-interviews-witnesses-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/

Then, there was the account by Martin's girlfriend. All of these seem to refute Zimmerman's account of what happened.

ARay11
03-30-2012, 02:04 PM
I don't know if it was or not. But, didn't Zimmerman utter a racial slur on the 911 tape? Maybe that's what's leading some people to believe it was about race.

I have not heard the 911 tape. A young man is dead..that's a tragedy in anyone's book.


But, Martin want' breaking into anyone's home. He was walking down the street with a bag of skiddles and an ice tea.

I think the truth will be heard... he was either an innocent bystander carrying his skittles & tea and the truth will incarcerate a murderer......
Or.... he attacked a neighborhood watchman who had every right to use deadly force to protect himself.

No one is helping the situation by constantly speculating. Feeding that beast has already come very close to costing a couple their lives.
Don't we think these activist groups and media hounds owe it to the individuals involved to stay the heck out of this? At least until the truth can be heard?

But on the other hand......Let's just make up our own minds about what happened according to hearsay, blurry videos, and incomplete police reports. Its far more sensational like that.

BonMallari
03-30-2012, 02:07 PM
someone needs to take Spike Lee and kick the crap out of him for tweeting an address he THOUGHT was Z's...what an irresponsible idiot...hope he gets hit smack dab in his grill at the next Knicks game in his courtside seat

duk4me
03-30-2012, 02:27 PM
someone needs to take Spike Lee and kick the crap out of him for tweeting an address he THOUGHT was Z's...what an irresponsible idiot...hope he gets hit smack dab in his grill at the next Knicks game in his courtside seat

Amen Brother Bon, Amen. I still think he commited a crime with his tweet but I'm not an expert on the law like alot of the people here on Potus.:rolleyes:

gmhr1
03-30-2012, 02:31 PM
You would think that could be looked at as attempted murder (hate crime) what did he think would happen if George Zimmerman was in that house? why did he tweet the address to 250,000 people? I hope he bought the house from this couple bought them a new house and paid their living costs plus pain and suffering

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 02:52 PM
There were 7 witnesses per the police report. you can read for yourself here
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/30793508/detail.html

I can't comment on why they didn't call the girlfriend...your right probably an oversight.

Why the hell would they immediately release the tapes? Of course they withheld them. And either way how does that mark a lacking investigation?

No idea why they sent a narc but for initial investigation does it matter? Zimmerman was questioned witnesses were question and apparently Zimmerman was foudn to be in the right...at least initially.

Drug and alcohol tests are standard for a self-defense shooting?

........

Seven witnesses that saw what? Did those 7 withnesses back up Zimmerman's story, or did they even see anything?

Perhaps it was an oversight that they didn't interview the girl, but wouldn't that mean that the investigation wasn't thorough? If they missed an important witness like that, what else did they miss?

Narco officers are not trained as homicide investigators. Perhaps, if homicide investigators had been dispatched to the crime scene, they wouldn't have overlooked the girl on the phone.

And yes, there should have been a drug and alcohol test given for a shooting that happened under suspicious circumstances. I don't know if that's standard procedure, but it seems to make sense to me to determine if the shooter was in some way impaired.

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 03:01 PM
Can't believe Spike could be so irresponsible. What if something had happened to that couple as a result? Even if he had the correct address, why would he tweet it to people. Was he hoping someone would go to Zimmerman's house and take the law into their own hands?

Now, I understand Roseanne Barr tweeted the correct address of Zimmerman's parents, the erased it. What is wrong with these people?

Jim Danis
03-30-2012, 03:05 PM
Amen Brother Bon, Amen. I still think he commited a crime with his tweet but I'm not an expert on the law like alot of the people here on Potus.:rolleyes:

I'm thinking the same thing. The Black Panthers put out a bounty on Zimmermans head, (Solicitation of Commit Murder), and Spike Lee tweets what he thinks is Zimmermans address, (Conspiracy to Commit Murder). Then there is Rosanne Barr who also tweets Zimmermans parents address. If I were the people whose address that Lee tweeted I would press charges against him at a minimum.

road kill
03-30-2012, 03:06 PM
Can't believe Spike could be so irresponsible. What if something had happened to that couple as a result? Even if he had the correct address, why would he tweet it to people. Was he hoping someone would go to Zimmerman's house and take the law into their own hands?

Now, I understand Roseanne Barr tweeted the correct address of Zimmerman's parents, the erased it. What is wrong with these people?

Because it "FELT" right to do.

The even bigger downside would be what would happen to the "useful idiots" that might act out on the info these 2 knuckleheads let out.
Seriously, the appearance of advocacy from a celebrity (term used loosely) could spur an action that could ruin or at least effect several lives in a very negative way.

Maybe we should "TWEET" Spikes home address to Reggie Miller!!!;-)



RK

gmhr1
03-30-2012, 03:13 PM
Wonder how they would feel to have a bounty on their head and someone tweets their address, its time people start taking responsibilty for their actions, someone needs to look into this. I'm sorry, would not be enough for me

BonMallari
03-30-2012, 03:36 PM
Can't believe Spike could be so irresponsible. What if something had happened to that couple as a result? Even if he had the correct address, why would he tweet it to people. Was he hoping someone would go to Zimmerman's house and take the law into their own hands?

Now, I understand Roseanne Barr tweeted the correct address of Zimmerman's parents, the erased it. What is wrong with these people?

something did happen, the people were harrassed by some overzealous fanatics....apparently Spike Lee settled with them after they threatened legal action, still doesnt excuse what he did

Cody Covey
03-30-2012, 03:36 PM
Seven witnesses that saw what? Did those 7 withnesses back up Zimmerman's story, or did they even see anything?

Perhaps it was an oversight that they didn't interview the girl, but wouldn't that mean that the investigation wasn't thorough? If they missed an important witness like that, what else did they miss?

Narco officers are not trained as homicide investigators. Perhaps, if homicide investigators had been dispatched to the crime scene, they wouldn't have overlooked the girl on the phone.

And yes, there should have been a drug and alcohol test given for a shooting that happened under suspicious circumstances. I don't know if that's standard procedure, but it seems to make sense to me to determine if the shooter was in some way impaired.

I can't say if they saw anything at all but it makes sense that at the very least they didn't see anything that refuted his story which is why he is walking today.

I don't really see her as that important of a "witness". She wasn't there and could only hear over the phone what happened. Her story doesn't take away from Zimmerman's story at all. With that said Yes they missed it and probably shouldn't have. To say the investigation wasn't thorough because they missed one piece doesn't make sense though.

There have been numerous shootings in my area of people defending themselves. Not once have I heard of a drug or alcohol test being administered and I don't know why there would be if the shooter wasn't displaying any sort of odd behavior.

sandyg
03-30-2012, 03:37 PM
Can't believe Spike could be so irresponsible. What if something had happened to that couple as a result? Even if he had the correct address, why would he tweet it to people. Was he hoping someone would go to Zimmerman's house and take the law into their own hands?

Now, I understand Roseanne Barr tweeted the correct address of Zimmerman's parents, the erased it. What is wrong with these people?

They're liberals. The same type of people who went running to the defense of the crackhead whore in the Duke lacrosse team incident a number of years back.

It's way past time for good people to stop sitting on the sidelines and SPEAK THEIR MIND! It's the only way we will be rid of this PC nonsense and take back our lives! The media is a HUGE part of the problem. So are union teachers who are 99% liberal and feeding trash into the minds of our youth. And parents! Where the hell are you in all this? Get involved! Take an interest in what is being poured into juniors head full of mush. It's not the government teacher's job to educate junior, it's your job! The teacher is just the facilitator. Unless of course you like the way society is heading; then all I can say is good job... you reap what you sow!

BonMallari
03-30-2012, 03:44 PM
They're liberals. The same type of people who went running to the defense of the crackhead whore in the Duke lacrosse team incident a number of years back.

It's way past time for good people to stop sitting on the sidelines and SPEAK THEIR MIND! It's the only way we will be rid of this PC nonsense and take back our lives! The media is a HUGE part of the problem. So are union teachers who are 99% liberal and feeding trash into the minds of our youth. And parents! Where the hell are you in all this? Get involved! Take an interest in what is being poured into juniors head full of mush. It's not the government teacher's job to educate junior, it's your job! The teacher is just the facilitator. Unless of course you like the way society is heading; then all I can say is good job... you reap what you sow!


heard a VERY interesting take on the Michael Savage show the other day, when he was talking to a journalism student...He blamed the liberal media bias on the Tim Leary LSD culture or the 60-70's on college campuses...the tune out turn on crowd is now today's college professors, who are still stuck in their ideological time warp, and teaching the current crop of young minds their liberal mindset...how many conservative professors are at most universities...VERY FEW...

sandyg
03-30-2012, 03:44 PM
You need to watch the entire video, not a just a still from the video. The mark you are talking about appears to be caused by the lighting, and how the lights reflects off Zimmerman’s head. There are views of the back of his head where that mark is not visible. It isn’t visible when he is backing up to the wall. It isn’t visible when he’s walking toward the door going out of the garage area. In both cases, you have a good look at the back of his head. And, if you watch the bald cop’s head, you see similar marks appear and disappear as he moves and the light hits his head from different angles. Few people have heads that are completely smooth. Any crease, ripple, or irregularity can cause a shadow depending on how the light hits it. If Zimmerman had a gash that large on the back of his head it would have been visible from all angles, and would not change as he moved. There is no bandage, and there’s no sign of any blood down the back of his shirt.

The video analysis expert has spoken. And no, he hasn't already taken sides. He's as impartial as Stalin discussing the pros and cons of communism.

sandyg
03-30-2012, 08:46 PM
Trayvon's tweets and black hate crimes

Exclusive: Ilana Mercer notes many more whites are brutalized by minorities

Ilana Mercer is a classical liberal (libertarian) writer and a fellow at the "Jerusalem Institute for Market Studies." She is the author of "Into the Cannibal's Pot: Lessons For America From Post-Apartheid South Africa." (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FInto-Cannibals-Pot-Lessons-Post-Apartheid%2Fdp%2F0982773439%2F&tag=worldnetdaily-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) "The titular tease," explains Ilana in the book, "is meant as a metaphor and is inspired by Ayn Rand's wise counsel against prostrating civilization to savagery." Ilana's website is IlanaMercer.com. (http://www.ilanamercer.com/). She blogs at www.barelyablog.com (http://barelyablog.com/).

WARNING: This column contains crude language.

“Hoodie on the Hill” blared the Drudge Report headline, as the street theatre playing out over the shooting death of Trayvon Martin crossed over to the House floor. There, concealed by the by-now iconic hood and “gangsta” glasses was one Bobby Rush, a Democratic representative. Rush blessed Trayvon Martin’s departed soul.
The name Trayvon is soon to be a trademark. It may yet spawn a franchise, as the youth’s grieving mother has had the presence of mind to file with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
If you’ve managed to miss the news, Martin was a 17-year-old black youth, shot dead last month by a Hispanic man with a Jewish surname. George Zimmerman – who, for the purposes of the “Racism Industrial Complex” is being considered white – was patrolling a Florida gated community as part of his neighborhood-watch duties.
Other than that Martin was unarmed and that George Zimmerman has not been arrested, the facts of the case have yet to be established. Since then, the “Racism Industrial Complex (RIC)” (columnist Jack Kerwick’s coinage (http://blog.beliefnet.com/attheintersectionoffaithandculture/2012/03/trayvon-martin-and-obama-the-racialist.html)), has galvanized on behalf of Trayvon.
The Hollywood faction of the RIC sicced its followers on the wrong Zimmerman, after tweeting out an unverified address in the hope of getting the shooter lynched. Somewhere in the Sunshine State a retired Jew is on the lam.
Don Lemon, a (pi—poor) prime-time reporter for CNN and a pillar of the RIC, gave the hoodlum from Congress a most sympathetic hearing. Lemon’s RIC comrades in the corporate media were careful to air only images of a cherubic-looking Trayvon, aged 12.
Taken off his Twitter account, however, Trayvon’s image is much more menacing, with a Twitter feed to match.


“@NO_LIMIT_NIGA,” as Trayvon called himself, tweeted and retweeted about “ThickD-ckThursday,” a favorite “PickUpLine”: “My you have a longue tongue..What do you use it for?” And, having dispensed with the poetry, got dirty: “f–k a b–ch, any b–ch, who you want? Take yo pick, but you gone have to take yo time.”
Granted, Trayvon’s tweets are not germane to the facts of his slaying. They are, nonetheless, telling.
The facts of the case should be reviewed impartially, and the identity of the aggressor in the altercation that left Martin dead determined. The issue, of course, hinges not on who was armed, but on who was first to aggress.
While we’re sifting through the facts, let us have that “conversation about race” that, in its penchant for clichés, the “Racism Industrial Complex” is forever calling for. For the treatment of the Trayvon travesty masks the brutal realities of crime in the USA.
For every Trayvon victimized by a Caucasian American (to humor the hooded ones, let’s pretend Zimmerman isn’t Hispanic) – many more whites are brutalized by a black criminal class, members of which never get called out for what are crimes rooted in racial hatred.
Courtesy of Patrick Buchanan’s “Suicide of a Superpower” (http://superstore.wnd.com/books/Current-Affairs/Suicide-of-a-Superpower-Will-America-Survive-to-2025-Hardcover) come the FBI’s crime figures for 2007: “Blacks committed 433,934 violent crimes against whites, eight times as many as the 55,685 that whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black-on-white, with 14,000 assaults on white women by African-American males in 2007. Not one case of white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study.” (Page 243)
“In the same time period as the Trayvon Martin incident,” documents VDARE’s Peter Bradley, “a multitude of anti-white attacks by blacks occurred that remained strictly local news.”
This month, in Tulsa, Okla., Tyrone Dale David (a black youth) raped and beat to a dead pulp an 85-year-old lady, Nancy Strait. The RIC gang would probably deny that racial subjugation was an element of this abominable act. (That, presumably, leaves octogenarian sexual attraction as a motive.)
Below is Bradley’s verbatim tally of the forgotten Caucasian casualties of black hate crimes, during the months of February and March of this year. As Bradley observes, in most of these attacks “there were clear and obvious signs of racial motivation.” And, “Almost all of the black-on-white attacks involved multiple black attackers against white children, the elderly or the handicapped”:

In Kansas City, a 13-year-old white boy named Allen Coon was doused with gasoline and set on fire by two older blacks saying, “This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.”
Haley Pettersen, a 15-year-old white girl in a leg cast in O’Fallon, Ill., was out walking her dog when she was attacked by two black girls who said, “This is our territory white girl.” One girl grabbed Haley by the hair, and the other one started hitting her in the face. The perpetrators ran off only when some neighbors came out, but the attack left Haley with a swollen left eye.
In Kansas City, an unnamed 50-year-old white man was left with a fractured hip and other injuries after being beaten by a group of blacks shouting racial epithets.
Gary Allder, a white man in San Antonio, came home to find that his house had been burglarized, ransacked and tagged with racial slurs such as “Die Whitey.”
Travis Eugene Winemiller, 16, a white Polk County, Fla., inmate, was beaten, choked and strangled until he was unconscious by three black inmates. They then hogtied Winemiller and said, “This is how you slave a real cracker,” and threatened to kill him.
Jacob Appel, a 15-year-old autistic white boy, was attacked by three blacks at his bus stop in Palm Bay, Fla. The blacks taunted, used racial slurs and chased the victim into the street where he was nearly struck by a car. The only reason the offenders were caught is that one of the attackers posted the video on his Facebook page. An even treatment of the Trayvon travesty would recognize and dignify these victims of racial animus and aggression – and thus affirm the reality of violent crime in this country, as opposed to the fiction of black victimization.
The racial extravaganza that has been staged by the “Racism Industrial Complex” must be countered, first, by an impartial examination of the facts of this case.
On the facts, an honest conversation about race would quickly dispense with the canard that blacks are habitually persecuted by whites. They are not.
Such a dispassionate, contextualized discussion of the reality of crime in the U.S. would invariably lead to the conclusion that the alleged “white” offender in the Trayvon travesty must be regarded as a statistical anomaly.

sandyg
03-30-2012, 08:50 PM
I watched the NBC Nightly News tonight (actually it's MSNBC) and when the T Martin story came up they showed three photos of a cherubic 13 year old boy and then Zimmerman's mug shot.

Oh yeah, there's no bias in the mass media!

Blackstone
03-30-2012, 10:51 PM
The video analysis expert has spoken. And no, he hasn't already taken sides. He's as impartial as Stalin discussing the pros and cons of communism.

Nothing intelligent or insightful to add to the conversation, I see.

Buzz
03-30-2012, 11:02 PM
heard a VERY interesting take on the Michael Savage show the other day, when he was talking to a journalism student...He blamed the liberal media bias on the Tim Leary LSD culture or the 60-70's on college campuses...the tune out turn on crowd is now today's college professors, who are still stuck in their ideological time warp, and teaching the current crop of young minds their liberal mindset...how many conservative professors are at most universities...VERY FEW...

You do realize that someone receiving a phd in 1970 would likely be 68 now? So I guess universities are full of nothing but old guys.

BonMallari
03-31-2012, 04:13 AM
You do realize that someone receiving a phd in 1970 would likely be 68 now? So I guess universities are full of nothing but old guys.


Yes Buzz but they taught the next generation of libs which would put them in the 50's like you and me....ever met a conservative journalism professor (rhetorical)...

HPL
03-31-2012, 08:15 AM
Yes Buzz but they taught the next generation of libs which would put them in the 50's like you and me....ever met a conservative journalism professor (rhetorical)...
My thoughts precisely.

dback
03-31-2012, 08:43 AM
I just want a full investigation.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with that. We haven't seen the full 'report' so maybe it has been done......maybe not. The media, Jess/Al types (of any color) and of course all gun control advocate groups each benefit from sensationalizing the entire affair. If I understand correctly, there are some three or four concurrent investigations or investigations of the investigation taking place at this time. Pretty sure we'll all get the facts in due time......everyone just needs to simmer down.

Did notice one thing though.....in the 'still' photo, just NE of the 'shadow' on the 'grassy knoll'............;-)

zeus3925
03-31-2012, 09:58 AM
I don't think anyone here has a problem with that. We haven't seen the full 'report' so maybe it has been done......maybe not. The media, Jess/Al types (of any color) and of course all gun control advocate groups each benefit from sensationalizing the entire affair. If I understand correctly, there are some three or four concurrent investigations or investigations of the investigation taking place at this time. Pretty sure we'll all get the facts in due time......everyone just needs to simmer down.


Agreed. There is more knee jerking from folks that have no idea where Sanford, FL is or how to find it on the map. Yet there are people thousands of miles away pontificating on guilt or innocence of the parties involved. Let the evidence come out before the rush to judgement.

jerod
03-31-2012, 11:29 AM
The real victims are the people of Sanford that are having to live in the middle of a non stop protest.

dback
03-31-2012, 12:08 PM
Its to late for that turn on your TV. They want justice yet they wont sit back and let it happen They are demanding Z be arrested thats all they have said all week they have already convicted him for murder a long time ago .ITs disgusting

And Nero fiddles........perhaps the new Domus Aurea is conveniently tucked away in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/travel/Obama+daughter+spends+spring+break+Mexico/6323773/story.html
http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=9921576
Wonder what this cost.

Matt McKenzie
03-31-2012, 04:40 PM
Agreed. There is more knee jerking from folks that have no idea where Sanford, FL is or how to find it on the map. Yet there are people thousands of miles away pontificating on guilt or innocence of the parties involved. Let the evidence come out before the rush to judgement.

On this we are in complete agreement. It's too bad the general public isn't mature enough to understand the difference between knowledge and opinion.

On a separate note, I heard Jessie Jackson on the radio today saying something to the effect that, "it isn't about the hoodie, it's about racial profiling". That got me thinking. We've all (most of us, anyway) have fallen for this idea that racial profiling is wrong. BS! Racial profiling is common sense. The majority of violent crime in this country is committed by young, black men. That's why many of us react differently if we find ourselves alone in the presence of unknown, young, black men dressed like gang-bangers than if we found ourselves alone in the presence of unknown, elderly women of any race dressed for church. It's a natural, rational reaction and isn't limited to white people. Old Jessie himself made a statement to that effect a few years ago. He said that it bothered him that if he hears footsteps behind him on a dark street, he feels relieved if he turns around to find that the person is white. That doesn't mean he's racist, that means he's realistic. The overwhelming majority of terrorism (as defined by our government) is committed by young, islamic (often of arab descent) males. So if you are looking for terrorists, that's where you start.
Profiling is a standard practice in law enforcement. Pretending that it was wrong for anyone to suspect a young black man dressed like a thug of being up to no good in a neighborhood that had suffered break-ins by other (maybe) young black men dressed like thugs is absolutely ridiculous and it's perpetuated by those of us who let it go because we don't want to be tagged as "racists".

Marvin S
03-31-2012, 07:15 PM
On this we are in complete agreement. It's too bad the general public isn't mature enough to understand the difference between knowledge and opinion.

On a separate note, I heard Jessie Jackson on the radio today saying something to the effect that, "it isn't about the hoodie, it's about racial profiling". That got me thinking. We've all (most of us, anyway) have fallen for this idea that racial profiling is wrong. BS! Racial profiling is common sense. The majority of violent crime in this country is committed by young, black men. That's why many of us react differently if we find ourselves alone in the presence of unknown, young, black men dressed like gang-bangers than if we found ourselves alone in the presence of unknown, elderly women of any race dressed for church. It's a natural, rational reaction and isn't limited to white people. Old Jessie himself made a statement to that effect a few years ago. He said that it bothered him that if he hears footsteps behind him on a dark street, he feels relieved if he turns around to find that the person is white. That doesn't mean he's racist, that means he's realistic. The overwhelming majority of terrorism (as defined by our government) is committed by young, islamic (often of arab descent) males. So if you are looking for terrorists, that's where you start.
Profiling is a standard practice in law enforcement. Pretending that it was wrong for anyone to suspect a young black man dressed like a thug of being up to no good in a neighborhood that had suffered break-ins by other (maybe) young black men dressed like thugs is absolutely ridiculous and it's perpetuated by those of us who let it go because we don't want to be tagged as "racists".

The bank in our little city has a note "If you expect to be served do not step to the counter with dark glasses & your head covered, we will take the necessary precautions". Needless to say they have not been robbed, does anyone wonder why?

gmhr1
03-31-2012, 07:29 PM
Our credit union says the same thing, before stepping to the window remove your sunglasses and hat. Could it be they want to see your face to help identify you when you rob them? My daughters bank doesn't even let you near the teller, the teller appears on a tv screen you talk to them thru a microphone wonder why..guess they are racists or they looked at the crime statistics

Blackstone
03-31-2012, 10:26 PM
On this we are in complete agreement. It's too bad the general public isn't mature enough to understand the difference between knowledge and opinion.

On a separate note, I heard Jessie Jackson on the radio today saying something to the effect that, "it isn't about the hoodie, it's about racial profiling". That got me thinking. We've all (most of us, anyway) have fallen for this idea that racial profiling is wrong. BS! Racial profiling is common sense. The majority of violent crime in this country is committed by young, black men. That's why many of us react differently if we find ourselves alone in the presence of unknown, young, black men dressed like gang-bangers than if we found ourselves alone in the presence of unknown, elderly women of any race dressed for church. It's a natural, rational reaction and isn't limited to white people. Old Jessie himself made a statement to that effect a few years ago. He said that it bothered him that if he hears footsteps behind him on a dark street, he feels relieved if he turns around to find that the person is white. That doesn't mean he's racist, that means he's realistic. The overwhelming majority of terrorism (as defined by our government) is committed by young, islamic (often of arab descent) males. So if you are looking for terrorists, that's where you start.
Profiling is a standard practice in law enforcement. Pretending that it was wrong for anyone to suspect a young black man dressed like a thug of being up to no good in a neighborhood that had suffered break-ins by other (maybe) young black men dressed like thugs is absolutely ridiculous and it's perpetuated by those of us who let it go because we don't want to be tagged as "racists".

The problem isn't being suspicious of someone because of the way they look. The problem is when you decide you are going to take assault, harass or take action against them without provocation just because of the way they look. If the person is minding their own business, and not bothering you, you should do the same.

sandyg
03-31-2012, 11:07 PM
The problem isn't being suspicious of someone because of the way they look. The problem is when you decide you are going to take assault, harass or take action against them without provocation just because of the way they look. If the person is minding their own business, and not bothering you, you should do the same.

Yeah, I'm sure that happens all the time... :rolleyes:

I'm suspicious of someone dressed like a thug in my quiet peaceful neighborhood so my first instinct is to go harass them. C'mon now!!!

mngundog
04-01-2012, 08:28 AM
So I go to work yesterday in a small town, the population is about 98% white, and crime is pretty much nonexistent, yet 30% of the workers are dressed as "thugs". Its amazing that you can walk around at just about any college in the country and the white college kids are dressed as "thugs", the schools even sell gangbanger clothes in their campus stores. :D

2tall
04-01-2012, 10:27 AM
Just a note about hoodies. Even I wear them on cool spring days or the first crisp mornings of fall. But.......there is something distinctly odd about seeing guys "slouching" up the road with a hood pulled fully around their face in 80+ humid heat. Don't know the weather down there in Sanford on the day in question, but can tell you for sure there were days in SC that the "look" was distinctly threatening.

gmhr1
04-01-2012, 10:49 AM
lets face it people that are going to do something bad pull up a hood or pull down a baseball cap really low for one reason they dont want you to see their face. Maybe in Flordia most gang members wear hoodies they all have their style of dress here they wear their pants falling off. If the suspects in the last 8 robberies in his complex were all wearing hoodies that might be what caught Z's eye. Its just a shame some of the facts can't be released to stop all the specualtion before this gets worse. Whether Z is brought up on charges or not he still has his rights you don't arrest someone because a group demands it. I feel when this investigation is done at least we will know the facts.

charly_t
04-01-2012, 12:15 PM
So I go to work yesterday in a small town, the population is about 98% white, and crime is pretty much nonexistent, yet 30% of the workers are dressed as "thugs". Its amazing that you can walk around at just about any college in the country and the white college kids are dressed as "thugs", the schools even sell gangbanger clothes in their campus stores. :D

Yep, Sis lives in a retirement community and I just bought her a hoodie ( before I had heard about this case ). Her birthday was coming up and in cool weather it seemed like a good article of clothing for her. I told her I was sorry ! ;-) Who knew that I would be branding her a gangsta type.

Eric Johnson
04-01-2012, 12:47 PM
NBC News has been outed. They clearly have been trying to sensationalize the story if not trying to start a race riot. I'm not certain just how NBC News would be held responsible but they should be.
*************

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

http://tinyurl.com/c3nzxg2

NBC to do ‘internal investigation’ on Zimmerman segment
By Erik Wemple

NBC told this blog today that it would investigate its handling of a piece on the “Today” show that ham-handedly abridged the conversation between George Zimmerman and a dispatcher in the moments before the death of Trayvon Martin. A statement from NBC:

“We have launched an internal investigation into the editorial process surrounding this particular story.”

Great news right there. As exposed by Fox News and media watchdog site NewsBusters, the “Today” segment took this approach to a key part of the dispatcher call:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.

-more-

Matt McKenzie
04-01-2012, 01:04 PM
The problem isn't being suspicious of someone because of the way they look. The problem is when you decide you are going to take assault, harass or take action against them without provocation just because of the way they look. If the person is minding their own business, and not bothering you, you should do the same.

If I'm on neighborhood watch, homes in my neighborhood have been burglarized by young black men and I see a young black (or a young, thugged-out white or hispanic) man acting suspiciously, I'm going to investigate. I may not do it the way that Mr. Zimmerman did, but I'll certainly be more suspicious of that individual than I would of a young black (or white or hispanic) man in a pair of dockers and a button-down shirt.
The point is that "profiling" has been been demonized unnecessarily. It's sort of like calling the poor the "less fortunate". It's become a part of our language and has affected the way we think, in a collective sense. Many people now think that your economic station in life is based on "fortune" or luck, rather than decision-making.
Profiling in itself is not wrong, whether it's by race, sex, physical appearance, or whatever. However, you and I agree that assault and unprovoked harassment are wrong. If that's what Mr. Zimmerman did, then of course he should have to deal with the legal consequences. But when the Justice Brothers say that this is about racial profiling, it's just plain wrong.

gmhr1
04-01-2012, 01:25 PM
well said, but when you live in a neighborhood thats terrorized by black teens you tend to be suspicious of them sorry thats just the way it is.

Blackstone
04-01-2012, 02:24 PM
Yeah, I'm sure that happens all the time... :rolleyes:

I'm suspicious of someone dressed like a thug in my quiet peaceful neighborhood so my first instinct is to go harass them. C'mon now!!!

It happens more often than you think. It's happened to me on a few occasions, and I wasn't dressed like a thug. It was at the hands of the police. I was stopped for no other reason than I was black, driving and expensive vehicle, and in a predominately white neighborhood after dark. I hadn't violated any traffic laws. There was no reason to stop me. Each time, they searched my vehicle. I can only assume they were hoping to catch me with drugs, a gun, or with outstanding warrants. In 2 of the cases, when I asked why I was being stopped, they ignored the question, and never offered any explanation. They just let me go.

One cop tried to say he stopped me because I wasn't wearing a seat belt. When I pointed out that I was wearing a seat belt at that moment, he stuttered, and said I must have put it on as I was pulling over. I told him I was driving a company vehicle owned by the auto manufacturer, and it was their policy that I must wear my seatbelt while driving, or risk getting fired. He said, "Well, I guess you're going to get fired." I told him I doubted it because I planned to contest the ticket and any action taken because of it. The manufacturer would have to pull the data from the BCM to prove they had cause to fire me. But, of course, the data from the BCM would prove I was wearing my seat belt while operating the vehicle. That same evidence would cause the ticket to be dismissed in court. Now, that was a bluff on my part. I don’t know if the data was stored on the BCM, and I think that it would have stay stored on there long enough to be pulled. But, obviously, he didn’t know because he let me go without issuing the ticket.

There was no reason to stop me in any of these cases, but since they were police, I had no recourse. So, until you actually have something like that happen to you, and know there is nothing you can do about it, you have no idea just how violated you feel.

And, just in case you don’t believe this goes on where you live, all 3 of these incidents were in MI (metro Detroit).

Matt McKenzie
04-01-2012, 03:04 PM
It happens more often than you think. It's happened to me on a few occasions, and I wasn't dressed like a thug. It was at the hands of the police. I was stopped for no other reason than I was black, driving and expensive vehicle, and in a predominately white neighborhood after dark. I hadn't violated any traffic laws. There was no reason to stop me. Each time, they searched my vehicle. I can only assume they were hoping to catch me with drugs, a gun, or with outstanding warrants. In 2 of the cases, when I asked why I was being stopped, they ignored the question, and never offered any explanation. They just let me go.

One cop tried to say he stopped me because I wasn't wearing a seat belt. When I pointed out that I was wearing a seat belt at that moment, he stuttered, and said I must have put it on as I was pulling over. I told him I was driving a company vehicle owned by the auto manufacturer, and it was their policy that I must wear my seatbelt while driving, or risk getting fired. He said, "Well, I guess you're going to get fired." I told him I doubted it because I planned to contest the ticket and any action taken because of it. The manufacturer would have to pull the data from the BCM to prove they had cause to fire me. But, of course, the data from the BCM would prove I was wearing my seat belt while operating the vehicle. That same evidence would cause the ticket to be dismissed in court. Now, that was a bluff on my part. I don’t know if the data was stored on the BCM, and I think that it would have stay stored on there long enough to be pulled. But, obviously, he didn’t know because he let me go without issuing the ticket.

There was no reason to stop me in any of these cases, but since they were police, I had no recourse. So, until you actually have something like that happen to you, and know there is nothing you can do about it, you have no idea just how violated you feel.

And, just in case you don’t believe this goes on where you live, all 3 of these incidents were in MI (metro Detroit).

I don't doubt for a minute that it happens much more often than we know and I am sorry that you or anyone else has to deal with that type of behavior. I know some police here in my city who are racial bigots and shouldn't be entrusted with our safety. My question is were you being harassed because you are black or were you profiled? If you were profiled, I would be curious to know what was the profile? Did the police suspect you of some crime simply because you are black? I can't imagine that they pull over every black person in Detroit. Was there something else in the situation that fit a profile?
By no means am I arguing the facts (most of which I obviously don't know), nor am I excusing the police if they were simply harassing you based on race. I'm just curious if there were other factors other than your race that led the police to suspect you. I have black friends who have dealt with that type of thing when they go to certain parts of town because they are relatively affluent and drive nice vehicles. They aren't harassed in the nice parts of town, but if they go to certain areas, they fit the profile of some of the drug dealers and fall under suspicion. On the other hand, if I drive a certain type of vehicle into the same parts of town (I'm white), I would look pretty suspicious, as well, and might fit the profile of a drug user. That doesn't mean either of us should be harassed, but I would expect the police to be interested in what I'm doing there and possibly keep a closer watch on my activities.

Blackstone
04-01-2012, 03:12 PM
I would to just what Z did if I had been robbed 8 times by black kids & I saw one in the dark in my GATED community that I didnt know acting weird (lets not forget that part we dont know yet if TM had drugs in his body or not we know he did drugs because he was suspended just a few days before for having marijuana in his bag I would call the cops on the kid just to have him checked out. If that kid starts running , trying to lose me you bet I would follow him so I could make sure the police knew where he was

Well, lets get the story straight. Zimmerman hadn’t been robbed 8 times by black kids. As far as acting weird, Tryvon was walking down the street talking on a cell phone holding a bag of skittles and an ice tea. How weird is that? Also, according to the police, Zimmerman had called 911 several times to report suspicious acting black kids that turned out to be nothing. So, perhaps it was Zimmerman that was acting weird. I think it was weird that he ignored 911 operator’s instructions not to follow Trayvon.

Trayvon was suspended for having a baggie in his backpack with “traces” of marijuana in it. That does not prove he was using it, and it has little to do with the case. Even if he had marijuana in his system, it doesn’t mean he was the aggressor. In fact, most people high on marijuana are pretty mellow and non-violent. As a side note, there were no drug or alcohol tests administered to Zimmerman either. But, while you’re determined to attack Trayvon’s character, you have ignored that Zimmerman is the one with the arrest record for assaulting a police officer. He’s the one with the record of aggressive behavior.

So, I guess you wouldn’t have been scared if you were walking alone at night, and a strange man started following you. You have no idea what this guy wants, or what he might try to do to you. Don’t you think you might see him as someone potentially dangerous? You don’t think you might run and try to lose him? Or, would you be comfortable with him following you as long as he was white?

So, let me get this straight, you call 911 to report a suspicious person, and the police tell you not to follow him, but you’re such a zealous crime fighter that you would ignore the police, and follow this person anyway? Well, I hope you don’t ever do something that stupid because the person you run up on might be someone with the gun who feels threatened by you because you’re following them, and you might not fare as well as Zimmerman did. Why do you think the police don’t want you trying to follow or apprehend people? It’s for your safety and the safety of the other person.

Blackstone
04-01-2012, 03:23 PM
I don't doubt for a minute that it happens much more often than we know and I am sorry that you or anyone else has to deal with that type of behavior. I know some police here in my city who are racial bigots and shouldn't be entrusted with our safety. My question is were you being harassed because you are black or were you profiled? If you were profiled, I would be curious to know what was the profile? Did the police suspect you of some crime simply because you are black? I can't imagine that they pull over every black person in Detroit. Was there something else in the situation that fit a profile?
By no means am I arguing the facts (most of which I obviously don't know), nor am I excusing the police if they were simply harassing you based on race. I'm just curious if there were other factors other than your race that led the police to suspect you. I have black friends who have dealt with that type of thing when they go to certain parts of town because they are relatively affluent and drive nice vehicles. They aren't harassed in the nice parts of town, but if they go to certain areas, they fit the profile of some of the drug dealers and fall under suspicion. On the other hand, if I drive a certain type of vehicle into the same parts of town (I'm white), I would look pretty suspicious, as well, and might fit the profile of a drug user. That doesn't mean either of us should be harassed, but I would expect the police to be interested in what I'm doing there and possibly keep a closer watch on my activities.

I have a friend that is a DEA agent (he's white). I discussed that last stop with him, and he told me, "You are black, you were driving a $70k SUV, you were going the speed limit, and you were in the wrong city. That's why you were stopped. They thought you might have been a drug dealer." However, there are plenty of whites in that city that drive Escalades, Mercedes, & Lexus. I'm sure they're not getting stopped on a regular basis. Like I said, I don't care if someone suspect me (including the police), but leave me alone if I'm not doing anything suspicious. Riding down the street at the speed limit doesn't qualify as suspicious to me.

charly_t
04-01-2012, 04:32 PM
It happens more often than you think. It's happened to me on a few occasions, and I wasn't dressed like a thug. It was at the hands of the police. I was stopped for no other reason than I was black, driving and expensive vehicle, and in a predominately white neighborhood after dark. I hadn't violated any traffic laws. There was no reason to stop me. Each time, they searched my vehicle. I can only assume they were hoping to catch me with drugs, a gun, or with outstanding warrants. In 2 of the cases, when I asked why I was being stopped, they ignored the question, and never offered any explanation. They just let me go.

One cop tried to say he stopped me because I wasn't wearing a seat belt. When I pointed out that I was wearing a seat belt at that moment, he stuttered, and said I must have put it on as I was pulling over. I told him I was driving a company vehicle owned by the auto manufacturer, and it was their policy that I must wear my seatbelt while driving, or risk getting fired. He said, "Well, I guess you're going to get fired." I told him I doubted it because I planned to contest the ticket and any action taken because of it. The manufacturer would have to pull the data from the BCM to prove they had cause to fire me. But, of course, the data from the BCM would prove I was wearing my seat belt while operating the vehicle. That same evidence would cause the ticket to be dismissed in court. Now, that was a bluff on my part. I don’t know if the data was stored on the BCM, and I think that it would have stay stored on there long enough to be pulled. But, obviously, he didn’t know because he let me go without issuing the ticket.

There was no reason to stop me in any of these cases, but since they were police, I had no recourse. So, until you actually have something like that happen to you, and know there is nothing you can do about it, you have no idea just how violated you feel.

And, just in case you don’t believe this goes on where you live, all 3 of these incidents were in MI (metro Detroit).

Yes, sorry to say this kind of thing goes on in our part of OK also.

charly_t
04-01-2012, 05:25 PM
At the chance that I can be called whatever for speculating again............
All teenagers act weird at times ( they are weird at times they don't just act that way ). T was talking on the phone ! There is more weird behavior in my grandkids when they get to talking on the phone. They also don't like for people to hear what they are saying ( to a girl friend or boy friend ) a lot of the time and they wander around outside the house while talking AND up and down the block. If it's cool outside they put their hoodie up ( Feb. in Florida and raining might be cold enough to cause this ). My grandchildren want to look like the other kids=hoodie up in some age groups. Yes, maybe T was not a model kid but no one saw him doing anything wrong. As reported by Z just acting strange.

cripes
04-01-2012, 06:11 PM
So, I guess you wouldn’t have been scared if you were walking alone at night, and a strange man started following you. You have no idea what this guy wants, or what he might try to do to you. Don’t you think you might see him as someone potentially dangerous? You don’t think you might run and try to lose him? Or, would you be comfortable with him following you as long as he was white?



I would call 911 not my girl friend

gmhr1
04-01-2012, 06:21 PM
I would have hung up and called 911 (or called my dad 70 yards away when TM was found) and have him step out the door or told my girlfriend to make those calls if I couldn't .I have seen kids some kids walking around not in the dark or rain that should have the cops called on them. Maybe if people would get involved we could take back our neighborhoods

I heard on a news channel TM was in the morgue 3 days before his parents found him?

charly_t
04-01-2012, 08:15 PM
.......................Maybe if people would get involved we could take back our neighborhoods..................................... ..........................

I'm all for that............... unless they are like Z and can't follow rules. If they are all out with guns and trying to take the law into their own hands it might work, NOT ! That is why people are upset with this. T may not have been as innocent as the driven snow but he was not doing anything to cause Z to escalate things. Z was not law enforcement, he was neighborhood watch.
I have never heard of neighborhood watch people acting like this. I can tell you that most of the men and boys in my family would suspect a pervert in this same situation. And I can furthure tell you that more than one of them would have punched Z for that.

HPL
04-02-2012, 12:21 AM
I can tell you that most of the men and boys in my family would suspect a pervert in this same situation. And I can furthure tell you that more than one of them would have punched Z for that.

Really? The grown or nearly grown men in your family would think that any male that was watching them was looking to have sex with them. Your neighborhood must be very odd. As far as punching someone because you suspected them of being "a pervert", that's the kind of escalation that can get you shot, and have the shooter get off with a handshake (if I'm on the jury).

There have been a lot of robberies in my neighborhood over the last few years, and when I see someone I don't know (especially teenage males) wandering the area, I attempt to 1. get a good look at them, and 2. be sure that they KNOW I have gotten a good look. If I am leaving the house and see someone I consider suspicious, I may drive around the block a couple of times eying them. Bad that Treyvon was killed, but we don't know what happened that night, and to say that Zimmerman shouldn't have been keeping an eye on him is just ludicrous. If we would all keep a better watch on what is happening in our neighborhoods, perhaps we could dampen crime down some.

ppro
04-02-2012, 12:49 AM
I have a 20 year old daughter that was driving her drunk 21 year old friend home from her party at a bar. A police officer pulled her over for speeding. She asked him how fast she was going. He then said she was driving recklessly( the catch all infraction which means he has cause to pull you over.) He said she looked like she had been drinking. She said no she was bringing her friend home from a party at a bar. He gave her a field sobriety test that proved nothing and then said she was being arrested for DUI. She was very upset and confused and was not drunk. The police officer then tried to get her friend to drive the car home but she said she could not. He asked why not and she said because she had been drinking. After about $9000 and a lawyer and 1 year of time finally was going to go to trial the DA finally looked at the tapes of the arrest from the car camera and the video of the test at the police station he said he would not bring this to court. My daughter was asked at the time of her arrest if she wanted to blow in a breathalyzer and she responded could she call her parents because she was not understanding. The officer took that as a refusal and in louisiana you are then guilty. After we watched this video it was obvious she was in no way impaired but by law she would have to keep special expensive insurance and a device in her car to start it for 1 year. I asked other officers how this could happen and all ( maybe 4-5) officers said she was a young teen looking kid driving at 3 am and the chances of her having been drinking was very high. Yes this little 105 lb blonde blue eyed white girl fit the profile. It happens to a wide variety of people. I wish she would have composed herself and blew in the stupid machine. Maybe I would have more money!! Oh well.

charly_t
04-02-2012, 01:46 AM
Really? The grown or nearly grown men in your family would think that any male that was watching them was looking to have sex with them. Your neighborhood must be very odd. As far as punching someone because you suspected them of being "a pervert", that's the kind of escalation that can get you shot, and have the shooter get off with a handshake (if I'm on the jury).

There have been a lot of robberies in my neighborhood over the last few years, and when I see someone I don't know (especially teenage males) wandering the area, I attempt to 1. get a good look at them, and 2. be sure that they KNOW I have gotten a good look. If I am leaving the house and see someone I consider suspicious, I may drive around the block a couple of times eying them. Bad that Treyvon was killed, but we don't know what happened that night, and to say that Zimmerman shouldn't have been keeping an eye on him is just ludicrous. If we would all keep a better watch on what is happening in our neighborhoods, perhaps we could dampen crime down some.

Your words not mine. Please, read what I said again......... if the men in my family were being followed like T was in the same way they would think pervert. If they didn't they would probably think someone was out to rob them. All of that is IF they did not know the person.

You got that right....we don't know for sure what happened. All we do have is Z's version. It was night and I really don't think any of those people who came forward could see and hear everything.....do you ? I hope they can help fill in the gaps though.

And.....I live in an old town here in the Osage........we still feel that a stranger following us in the dark of night is somebody up to 'no good'.

charly_t
04-02-2012, 01:57 AM
I have a 20 year old daughter that was driving her drunk 21 year old friend home from her party at a bar. A police officer pulled her over for speeding. She asked him how fast she was going. He then said she was driving recklessly( the catch all infraction which means he has cause to pull you over.) He said she looked like she had been drinking. She said no she was bringing her friend home from a party at a bar. He gave her a field sobriety test that proved nothing and then said she was being arrested for DUI. She was very upset and confused and was not drunk. The police officer then tried to get her friend to drive the car home but she said she could not. He asked why not and she said because she had been drinking. After about $9000 and a lawyer and 1 year of time finally was going to go to trial the DA finally looked at the tapes of the arrest from the car camera and the video of the test at the police station he said he would not bring this to court. My daughter was asked at the time of her arrest if she wanted to blow in a breathalyzer and she responded could she call her parents because she was not understanding. The officer took that as a refusal and in louisiana you are then guilty. After we watched this video it was obvious she was in no way impaired but by law she would have to keep special expensive insurance and a device in her car to start it for 1 year. I asked other officers how this could happen and all ( maybe 4-5) officers said she was a young teen looking kid driving at 3 am and the chances of her having been drinking was very high. Yes this little 105 lb blonde blue eyed white girl fit the profile. It happens to a wide variety of people. I wish she would have composed herself and blew in the stupid machine. Maybe I would have more money!! Oh well.

Yep, the young are always to blame for something. Your daughter's case sounds a lot like our grandaughter's recent problem. I have no idea how those machines work but the grandaughter's lawyer did and there was a problem with the way that was handled. Dash video was very helpful !

ppro
04-02-2012, 05:34 AM
Yea. The sad part she was doing a good deed. She has never received even as much as a parking ticket before this. In no way do I think my kids are angels all the time. But when the district attorney whom I have never met tells you sorry we made a mistake on a DUI and drops all charges you no it was bogus. This officer is on our special DUI task force and they post the updated stats on DUI arrests on billboards all around town. Guess we were part of the quota.

Matt McKenzie
04-02-2012, 06:01 AM
http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/from-the-trayvon-martin-tragedy-to-a-national-travesty/?singlepage=true

An interesting breakdown on the case by a pretty smart guy.