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duk4me
03-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Poor Franco Sean Payton suspended for the year, Saints fined $500k and
2nd round draft picks the next two years.

Better put Franco on suicide watch.:(

road kill
03-21-2012, 01:57 PM
Poor Franco Sean Payton suspended for the year, Saints fined $500k and
2nd round draft picks the next two years.

Better put Franco on suicide watch.:(

Justice is served!

They should return the Lombardi Trophy as well!

RK

Franco
03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
Lots of jealousy out there!

Only thing that cures this is to keep on winning which the Saints will do!;-)

Hew
03-21-2012, 02:16 PM
Poor Franco Sean Payton suspended for the year, Saints fined $500k and
2nd round draft picks the next two years.
Wow. With respect to Payton...that's way harsher than I expected, and way harsher than what was deserved.

duk4me
03-21-2012, 02:24 PM
The real reason for this being so harsh is the ongoing lawsuits by past players concerning concussions. CYA on the NFL's part.

Franco
03-21-2012, 02:28 PM
The real reason for this being so harsh is the ongoing lawsuits by past players concerning concussions. CYA on the NFL's part.

There is no doubt about it!

Brees needs to get signed to a 5 year deal, turn the HC duties over to Kroner (O line coach) and just keep on winning.

Franco
03-21-2012, 02:30 PM
Wow. With respect to Payton...that's way harsher than I expected, and way harsher than what was deserved.

And, his team was one of the least penalized in terms of illegal hits over the last 3 seasons!!!

huntinman
03-21-2012, 02:43 PM
Sean Payton always seemed like a little weasel to me. There was something I didn't like about him, I just didn't know what it was. Now I know. Good riddance.

road kill
03-21-2012, 02:52 PM
And, his team was one of the least penalized in terms of illegal hits over the last 3 seasons!!!
Yes Franco, you should be very proud!!:D

I know one game where the Saint's got 6 fines for illegal hits the following week.
(the ref's evidently were to busy:rolleyes:)

Trust me, noone up in Packers territory is jealous of anything in Narlens.

Lombardi regards........


RK

Jacob Hawkes
03-21-2012, 03:40 PM
Sean Payton always seemed like a little weasel to me. There was something I didn't like about him, I just didn't know what it was. Now I know. Good riddance.

The same can be said for my thoughts towards you.

huntinman
03-21-2012, 06:01 PM
The same can be said for my thoughts towards you.

Struck a nerve eh? Do the crime, pay the time. Try to ruin someones career by hurting them while standing on the sidelines?? He's lucky he only got one year.

dback
03-21-2012, 07:59 PM
Lots of jealousy out there!

Be accountable, don't lie, don't cheat, be responsible, honor, work hard, "golden rule"......all words we conservatives like to throw around alot, but, when it comes to football.......screw it.......just win. Sean Payton knew full well what was doing as evidenced by the trail of e-mails. When you have outsiders paying thousands into the "bounty kitty", you've taken it to a whole new level. Payton knew it and lied when questioned by the league to cover it up. This is as much about lying as the 'bounty' program.....but I guess that's OK too as long as you win.....Right? Had Brees suffered a career ending injury due to a "bounty" program by Minnesota.....I guess you'd of tipped your cap and said "Nice job"........or maybe not.

Franco
03-21-2012, 08:51 PM
Be accountable, don't lie, don't cheat, be responsible, honor, work hard, "golden rule"......all words we conservatives like to throw around alot, but, when it comes to football.......screw it.......just win. Sean Payton knew full well what was doing as evidenced by the trail of e-mails. When you have outsiders paying thousands into the "bounty kitty", you've taken it to a whole new level. Payton knew it and lied when questioned by the league to cover it up. This is as much about lying as the 'bounty' program.....but I guess that's OK too as long as you win.....Right? Had Brees suffered a career ending injury due to a "bounty" program by Minnesota.....I guess you'd of tipped your cap and said "Nice job"........or maybe not.

Where is the corpse? Yes, the program was at fault but lets not for one moment think that this is a unique situtaion. Saints got caught, will pay a severe price and move on. Loomis didn't officially end the practice but then again it wasn't anything that had been going on the last two seasons! Remember, the snitch, Jeremy Shockey, wasn't around last season and is sour for being cut. Fans of teams that have a difficult time beating the Saints are rejoicing. Go read some of the comments on ESPN.com

Best therapy is to keep on winning and promise not to play too rough. Again, where is the corpse? 40 year old Brett Farve with his on-field drama? One game where maybe the D was too aggressive, please! Other than that the Saints are one of the least penalized teams in the NFL with, "illegal hits".

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539013_10100121761800650_47903400_39023395_2335698 84_n.jpg

BonMallari
03-21-2012, 09:04 PM
where is the corpse...check out the class action lawsuit started by the Duerson family and recently joined by Jim McMahon...if anything Goodell can show that the NFL is proactive in addressing the situation....the Saints are guilty of not stopping the practice , the old lack of institutional control....by letting it go on for multiple years, they basically thumbed their noses at the league..my.02

wayne anderson
03-21-2012, 09:08 PM
Playing tough is fine, but this went over the edge. IMO, Payton and management got off easily. Will be interesting to see what penalties the involved defensive players pay. No big fan of Favre, but what happened was criminal.

DaveHare
03-21-2012, 09:32 PM
where is the corpse...check out the class action lawsuit started by the Duerson family and recently joined by Jim McMahon...if anything Goodell can show that the NFL is proactive in addressing the situation....the Saints are guilty of not stopping the practice , the old lack of institutional control....by letting it go on for multiple years, they basically thumbed their noses at the league..my.02

Bon I second that, It looks Like the good old boys club is over in the NFL the Saints got caught!! I FEEL BAD for the fans and the state of Louisiana. But, they still have the best QB in the NFL for now ??
Dave Hare

dback
03-21-2012, 10:35 PM
"Where is the corpse?" I guess that will be the new defense for charges in countless phases of society.

The league can't very well attempt to defend itself in lawsuits that it failed to protect players against 'unnecessary' long term injury while turning a blind eye to "bounty" programs involving thousands of dollars. Teams from HS to the NFL have had reward systems of some sort for ever......ranging from a helmet 'sticker' in HS to a few hundred dollars in the NFL, however, when your ten thousand dollar 'illegal hit' fine is covered by 'bounty' money...now we're talking an elevated level...the NFL would have no defense in a court of law should they fail to act. It speaks volumes about Louisiana that Goodell and Shockey would be vilified while your coaches who "fabricated" explanations are left unscathed. I may be naive in this matter (never played in the NFL) but while I'm sure most teams had some sort of performance system......I'd be surprised (and disappointed) to find that each included outside involvement and this level of financial reward.

I'm guessin' you and Payton had the same father that failed to ever use the age old line "Now tell me the truth son.....it'll go much harder on ya if ya lie to me."

Bet one thing.......those 'bounty' deals went away today bout noon ;-)

BonMallari
03-21-2012, 10:58 PM
the only thing I hate about Roger Goodell is that he talked his wife Jane Skinner into leaving her day job at Fox News....I loved drinking coffee and eating breakfast with her on many a morning,now I have to wake up earlier and have my coffee with Martha Macallum, the best looking soccer mom on the airwaves, which tides me over till lunch with my gal Megyn Kelly

road kill
03-22-2012, 05:52 AM
Bon I second that, It looks Like the good old boys club is over in the NFL the Saints got caught!! I FEEL BAD for the fans and the state of Louisiana. But, they still have the best QB in the NFL for now ??
Dave Hare

uhhhhhhh.....second best, maybe.


MVP?
Oh, yeah #12

RK

Franco
03-22-2012, 07:40 AM
uhhhhhhh.....second best, maybe.


MVP?
Oh, yeah #12

RK


Yea, but Mr MVP choked in the playoffs;-)

Jason Glavich
03-22-2012, 08:12 AM
Who cares if they had a bounty program, they weren't very succesful at collecting that bounty...lol

Number 12 MVP? Maybe if he stopped doing commercials, he wouldn't choke.

The punishment was way worse than what it needed to be. There are far dirtier players and coaches out there.

Oh and I know what this is really about...
GWBush hates New Orleans, remember his hate of there during the hurricane? Blame Bush for the Punishment!!

road kill
03-22-2012, 08:41 AM
Yea, but Mr MVP choked in the playoffs;-)

HAHAHAHHA.....what did the Ain'ts do??

(ain't got no coach!!!:D)

MVP #12!!!

RK

Jacob Hawkes
03-22-2012, 08:44 AM
Struck a nerve eh? Do the crime, pay the time. Try to ruin someones career by hurting them while standing on the sidelines?? He's lucky he only got one year.

Surely you don't believe 1/10 of what you post.

Franco
03-22-2012, 09:06 AM
HAHAHAHHA.....what did the Ain'ts do??

(ain't got no coach!!!:D)

MVP #12!!!

RK

The Saints Defense choked but at least the team wasn't one and done! The guy that should have been named MVP put his team in the lead twice in the last 4 minutes;-)

Don't need Payton next season, better that we play with a chip on our shoulders.

road kill
03-22-2012, 09:27 AM
The Saints Defense choked but at least the team wasn't one and done! The guy that should have been named MVP put his team in the lead twice in the last 4 minutes;-)

Don't need Payton next season, better that we play with a chip on our shoulders.

Yep, you guys had your share of 1 and done against....who was it again???

Oh, yeah that JUGGERNAUT, the Sea Hawks???

All righty then........:D


RK

BTW--You gots lots a chips to carry on your shoulder right now!;-)

cakaiser
03-22-2012, 09:44 AM
NFL release: http://tucsoncitizen.com/usa-today-sports/2012/03/21/nfl-press-release-detailing-saints-discipline/
Commissioner Roger Goodell notified the New Orleans Saints today of the discipline that will be imposed on team management for violations of the NFL's long-standing "bounty" rule that endangered player safety over a three-year period.

1. The Saints defensive team operated a pay-for-performance/bounty program, primarily funded by players, during the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons. Under that program, players regularly made cash "donations" to a pool, and were "fined" for mental errors, loafing, penalties, and the like. At least one assistant coach (defensive coordinator Gregg Williams) also occasionally contributed to the pool. There is no evidence that any club money was contributed to the program.

2. Payments were made for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries. All such payments are against league rules. Payments also were made for plays on which opposing players were injured. In addition, specific players were sometimes targeted. The investigation showed bounties being placed on four quarterbacks of opposing teams - Brett Favre, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, and Kurt Warner. Multiple sources have confirmed that several players pledged funds toward bounties on specific opposing players, with defensive captain Jonathan Vilma offering $10,000 to any player who knocked Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game in 2010.

3. Coach Williams acknowledged that he designed and implemented the program with the assistance of certain defensive players. He said that he did so after being told by Saints Head Coach Sean Payton that his assignment was to make the defense "nasty." Coach Williams described his role as overseeing record keeping, defining payout amounts, deciding on who received payouts, and distributing envelopes with cash to players who "earned" rewards.

4. In each of the 2009-2011 seasons, the Saints were one of the top five teams in the league in roughing the passer penalties. In 2009 and 2011, the Saints were also in the top five teams in unnecessary roughness penalties; in 2010, the Saints ranked sixth in the category. In the January 16, 2010 divisional playoff game against the Arizona Cardinals, Saints defensive players were assessed $15,000 in fines for fouls committed against opposing players. The following week, in the NFC Championship Game against the Minnesota Vikings, Saints defensive players were assessed $30,000 in fines for four separate illegal hits, several of which were directed against quarterback Brett Favre.

5. Coach Williams now acknowledges that when he was first questioned about this matter in early 2010 he intentionally misled NFL investigators and made no effort to stop the program after he became aware of the league's investigation.

6. Coach Williams further confirmed that the program continued during the 2010 and 2011 seasons, and that he occasionally contributed funds to the pool in each of those seasons.

7. Assistant Head Coach/Defense Joe Vitt acknowledged that he was aware of the program in 2009-2011. He admitted that, when interviewed in 2010, he "fabricated the truth" to NFL investigators and denied that any pay-for-performance or bounty program existed at the Saints.

8. Coach Vitt said one of his primary roles was to monitor the activity of Coach Williams. This was based on the direction of Coach Payton, who apparently had less than full confidence in Coach Williams. Despite Coach Vitt's knowledge of the bounty program, his understanding of the terms "knock-out" and "cart-off," his witnessing Coach Williams handing out envelopes that he believed to contain cash, and his acknowledgement that the defensive meeting preceding the 2010 NFC Championship Game may have "got out of hand" with respect to Brett Favre, Coach Vitt claimed he never advised either Coach Payton or General Manager Mickey Loomis of the "pay-for-performance/bounty" program.

cakaiser
03-22-2012, 09:45 AM
9. A summary prepared following a Saints preseason game included the statement, "1 Cart-off - Crank up the John Deer (sic) Tractor" in reference to a hit on an opposing player. Similar statements are reflected in prepared documents or slides in connection with other games in multiple seasons. A review of the game films confirms that opposing players were injured on the plays identified in the documents.

10. When interviewed in 2012, Sean Payton claimed to be entirely unaware of the program, a claim contradicted by others. Further, prior to the Saints' opening game in 2011, Coach Payton received an email from a close associate that stated in part, "PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic)." When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a "bounty" on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers.

11. In early 2010, Mr. Loomis advised Coach Payton that the league office was investigating allegations concerning a bounty program. Coach Payton said that he met with his top two defensive assistants, Coach Williams and Coach Vitt, in advance of the interview with league investigators and told them, "Let's make sure our ducks are in a row." Remarkably, Coach Payton claimed that he never inquired of Coach Williams and Coach Vitt as to what happened in the interviews, never asked them if a "pay-for-performance" or bounty program was in fact in place, and never gave any instructions to discontinue such a program.

12. In January 2012, prior to the Saints' first playoff game of the 2011 season, Coach Payton was advised by Mr. Loomis that the league office had reopened the investigation. Coach Payton made a cursory inquiry but took no action to ensure that any bounty program was discontinued.

13. General Manager Mickey Loomis was not present at meetings of the Saints defense at which bounties were discussed and was not aware of bounties being placed on specific players. Mr. Loomis became aware of the allegations regarding a bounty program no later than February 2010 when he was notified of the investigation into the allegations during a meeting with NFL Executive Vice President-Football Operations Ray Anderson. He was directed to ensure that any such program ceased immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis did not do enough to determine if a pay-for-performance/bounty program existed or to end any such program that did exist.

14. Saints owner Tom Benson notified Mr. Loomis in January 2012 prior to the team's participation in the playoffs that the league's investigation had been reopened. Mr. Benson reiterated his position that a bounty program was unacceptable and instructed Mr. Loomis to ensure that if a bounty program existed at the Saints it would stop immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis responded to this direction by making only cursory inquiries of Coaches Payton and Williams. He never issued instructions to end the bounty program to either the coaching staff or the players.

15. There is no evidence that Saints ownership had any knowledge of the pay-for-performance or bounty program. There is no evidence that any club funds were used for the program. Ownership made clear that it disapproved of the program, gave prompt and clear direction that it stop, and gave full and immediate cooperation to league investigators.

Franco
03-22-2012, 10:34 AM
I'm not saying what the Saints did was right. Just that the penalties were too harsh escpially since other teams have had the same practice.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0305/NFL-bounty-payments-involved-four-teams-say-media-reports

Teams like; Eagles, Bears, Titans, Ravens, Bills, Redskins and even the Packers were investigated in 2007.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d8048ec12&template=with-video---SAY

M&K's Retrievers
03-22-2012, 11:06 AM
I'm not saying what the Saints did was right. Just that the penalties were too harsh escpially since other teams have had the same practice.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0305/NFL-bounty-payments-involved-four-teams-say-media-reports

Teams like; Eagles, Bears, Titans, Ravens, Bills, Redskins and even the Packers were investigated in 2007.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d8048ec12&template=with-video---SAY

Not the Cowboys, that's for sure. You have to hit someone first. An investigation of them probably took 30 seconds. :rolleyes:

troy schwab
03-22-2012, 11:20 AM
Not the Cowboys, that's for sure. You have to hit someone first. An investigation of them probably took 30 seconds. :rolleyes:

I dont care who you are...... that there is funny!!

paul young
03-22-2012, 11:57 AM
9. A summary prepared following a Saints preseason game included the statement, "1 Cart-off - Crank up the John Deer (sic) Tractor" in reference to a hit on an opposing player. Similar statements are reflected in prepared documents or slides in connection with other games in multiple seasons. A review of the game films confirms that opposing players were injured on the plays identified in the documents.

10. When interviewed in 2012, Sean Payton claimed to be entirely unaware of the program, a claim contradicted by others. Further, prior to the Saints' opening game in 2011, Coach Payton received an email from a close associate that stated in part, "PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic)." When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a "bounty" on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers.

11. In early 2010, Mr. Loomis advised Coach Payton that the league office was investigating allegations concerning a bounty program. Coach Payton said that he met with his top two defensive assistants, Coach Williams and Coach Vitt, in advance of the interview with league investigators and told them, "Let's make sure our ducks are in a row." Remarkably, Coach Payton claimed that he never inquired of Coach Williams and Coach Vitt as to what happened in the interviews, never asked them if a "pay-for-performance" or bounty program was in fact in place, and never gave any instructions to discontinue such a program.

12. In January 2012, prior to the Saints' first playoff game of the 2011 season, Coach Payton was advised by Mr. Loomis that the league office had reopened the investigation. Coach Payton made a cursory inquiry but took no action to ensure that any bounty program was discontinued.

13. General Manager Mickey Loomis was not present at meetings of the Saints defense at which bounties were discussed and was not aware of bounties being placed on specific players. Mr. Loomis became aware of the allegations regarding a bounty program no later than February 2010 when he was notified of the investigation into the allegations during a meeting with NFL Executive Vice President-Football Operations Ray Anderson. He was directed to ensure that any such program ceased immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis did not do enough to determine if a pay-for-performance/bounty program existed or to end any such program that did exist.

14. Saints owner Tom Benson notified Mr. Loomis in January 2012 prior to the team's participation in the playoffs that the league's investigation had been reopened. Mr. Benson reiterated his position that a bounty program was unacceptable and instructed Mr. Loomis to ensure that if a bounty program existed at the Saints it would stop immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis responded to this direction by making only cursory inquiries of Coaches Payton and Williams. He never issued instructions to end the bounty program to either the coaching staff or the players.

15. There is no evidence that Saints ownership had any knowledge of the pay-for-performance or bounty program. There is no evidence that any club funds were used for the program. Ownership made clear that it disapproved of the program, gave prompt and clear direction that it stop, and gave full and immediate cooperation to league investigators.

if all this is true, i'm thinking they got off too easy.-Paul

charly_t
03-22-2012, 01:36 PM
I dont care who you are...... that there is funny!!

Yes, it is :-)

road kill
03-22-2012, 03:22 PM
The same can be said for my thoughts towards you.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h382/UnionThug/Francis.jpg


RK

starjack
03-22-2012, 05:12 PM
Yea, but Mr MVP choked in the playoffs;-)

When the reciever can not catch the ball that is right in there hands how is that a MVP fault? BTW If you did not notice there were 2 outside stadium team in superbowl again . The aints need to put bounty out to show thier real talent under a roof.

I forget now what was the score of the Pack and the aints last season?

Franco
03-22-2012, 06:08 PM
When the reciever can not catch the ball that is right in there hands how is that a MVP fault? BTW If you did not notice there were 2 outside stadium team in superbowl again . The aints need to put bounty out to show thier real talent under a roof.

I forget now what was the score of the Pack and the aints last season?

Packers won by 6 last season and the time before that the Saints won by 24 points over the Packers.

I did congratulate Rodgers here on RTF for winning the MVP though I felt then and still feel that Brees had the better season!

dback
03-22-2012, 08:40 PM
I'm not saying what the Saints did was right. Just that the penalties were too harsh escpially since other teams have had the same practice.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0305/NFL-bounty-payments-involved-four-teams-say-media-reports

Teams like; Eagles, Bears, Titans, Ravens, Bills, Redskins and even the Packers were investigated in 2007.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d8048ec12&template=with-video---SAY

$500.00 for holding Adrian Peterson under 100 yrds vs $10,000.00 if someone specific is "carted" off......seriously Franco.....can you tell the difference between an ice cube and a turd in a punch bowl?

I love football......hard nosed, competitive, high speed, well executed football. Injuries are going to happen.......intentionally trying to end a career is ridiculous and trying to justify this in ANY fashion falls in the same category.

Franco
03-23-2012, 08:46 PM
Well, looks like Forbes has a better grasp of the situation than ESPN, the NFL Network and most of the posters here on RTF;-)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/22/roger-goodell-nfl-are-not-serious-about-player-safety-and-its-because-of-money/

dback
03-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Well, looks like Forbes has a better grasp of the situation than ESPN, the NFL Network and most of the posters here on RTF;-)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/22/roger-goodell-nfl-are-not-serious-about-player-safety-and-its-because-of-money/

Good read Franco.......some good points and some I'm not so sure about.

What do you think......

1)How pervasive is this level of "bounty" league wide? I certainly don't know at this point.....it will be interesting.

2)"IF" Payton's penalty is administered in full (and I don't believe that's a given) and "IF" the Saints do win it all (let's face it...they have a great team and 'WILL' be playing with a chip on their shoulder)....what does Benson do with Payton??? Bring him back or go with the new guy and save money?

3) And last......it appears to me that Goodell has really painted himself into a corner regarding the involved players. In his extreme effort to portray the league as a 'player safety' advocate.....what penalties are coming for those players involved?

road kill
03-24-2012, 10:10 AM
Good read Franco.......some good points and some I'm not so sure about.

What do you think......

1)How pervasive is this level of "bounty" league wide? I certainly don't know at this point.....it will be interesting.

2)"IF" Payton's penalty is administered in full (and I don't believe that's a given) and "IF" the Saints do win it all (let's face it...they have a great team and 'WILL' be playing with a chip on their shoulder)....what does Benson do with Payton??? Bring him back or go with the new guy and save money?

3) And last......it appears to me that Goodell has really painted himself into a corner regarding the involved players. In his extreme effort to portray the league as a 'player safety' advocate.....what penalties are coming for those players involved?

OK, now that the "FUN" of bashing the Saints is over, Mr Goodel has stepped in it.

I have been in my current industry for 25+ years.
My industry is all about details.
(printing)
If I see a project and notice something is NOT right, I FLAG it so to speak.
Don't you as well?

Then explain to me how professional referees who have been watching the "details" of the game and who are charged with upholding the integrity of the game can MISS all these hits and calls??

1 FLAG early changes this bounty approach for that game.
If they find out they(players & coaches) can get away with it, they will.
Much like kids and dogs.:rolleyes:

No, I say what's done is done.
Fix it going forward.
Seriously, implement a policy of suspension and forfeiture of pay for the player "suspected" of illegal hits of this nature.
Personally, anything below the thighs (at knees) or led with a helmut should be a suspension and forfeiture for coaches and players.
Watch how fast that cleans it up!!!!

These are grown men, not HS kids or College kids.
Professional players, and they know right from wrong in their profession.


JMO


stan b

M&K's Retrievers
03-24-2012, 10:49 AM
Let me see if I have this straight. The NFL fines the Saints $500,000 but saves the team the salaries of Peyton ($7.5M), the GM and the Assistant Coach. That has to be a savings to the Saints of $10M this year.

Secondly, why wouldn't Goodell leave their salaries intact and fine the pi$$ out of them?

Third, does Goodell really have the power to suspend a coaches pay? Obviously he does, but how can he control how an owner spends his money outside of players salaries?

Fourth, how is Goodell going to fairly handle players involved who have gone to other teams? Fines I guess. Suspensions don't seem to be fair since the new team had nothing to do with the infraction.

To me the whole thing reeks of NCAA sanctions akin to SMU. Too many are negatively effective who had nothing to do with the violation.

As someone has already said, these are grown men. Fine their asses for past digressions and go on.

It would be interesting to know what Goodell's bosses (the Owners) have to say to him in private about his actions.

Franco
03-24-2012, 12:50 PM
Good read Franco.......some good points and some I'm not so sure about.

What do you think......

1)How pervasive is this level of "bounty" league wide? I certainly don't know at this point.....it will be interesting.

2)"IF" Payton's penalty is administered in full (and I don't believe that's a given) and "IF" the Saints do win it all (let's face it...they have a great team and 'WILL' be playing with a chip on their shoulder)....what does Benson do with Payton??? Bring him back or go with the new guy and save money?

3) And last......it appears to me that Goodell has really painted himself into a corner regarding the involved players. In his extreme effort to portray the league as a 'player safety' advocate.....what penalties are coming for those players involved?

Let me just say again that I don't approve of any Bounty program and I am also upset with Peyton/Loomis for tarnishing whatever image the Saints have.

I think the penalities on Coach Payton were too harsh compared to what others have been punished for in the NFL. I doubt he will return for the 2013 season. Loomis thought the bounties ended after the 09 season and Payton didn't think it was that big of a deal because he knew that most other teams do the same in one form or the other. Maybe not administered by the DC but they all want to deliver "remember me shots". The Saints are talking with Parcells about coaching the entire 2012 season.

I expect LB Vilma to be fined heavily and suspended. Because of his knees, he was going to be released anyway to make cap room. It was Vilma that offered 10k of his own money to anyone that could knock Farve out of the game. Fujita was signed by the Browns after the 09 season. Porter just signed with the Broncos and I'm not sure who else might have been involved. Will D players now play with the thought that they can't make a big hit for fear of big fines? Probably so for all D players on every team.

I've been vocal here on RTF in the past about my concerns of the direction that Goodell is taking the NFL. No doubt that with the Class Action suits that he is over-reacting.

BonMallari
03-25-2012, 02:49 AM
Let me just say again that I don't approve of any Bounty program and I am also upset with Peyton/Loomis for tarnishing whatever image the Saints have.

I think the penalities on Coach Payton were too harsh compared to what others have been punished for in the NFL. I doubt he will return for the 2013 season. Loomis thought the bounties ended after the 09 season and Payton didn't think it was that big of a deal because he knew that most other teams do the same in one form or the other. Maybe not administered by the DC but they all want to deliver "remember me shots". The Saints are talking with Parcells about coaching the entire 2012 season.

I expect LB Vilma to be fined heavily and suspended. Because of his knees, he was going to be released anyway to make cap room. It was Vilma that offered 10k of his own money to anyone that could knock Farve out of the game. Fujita was signed by the Browns after the 09 season. Porter just signed with the Broncos and I'm not sure who else might have been involved. Will D players now play with the thought that they can't make a big hit for fear of big fines? Probably so for all D players on every team.

I've been vocal here on RTF in the past about my concerns of the direction that Goodell is taking the NFL. No doubt that with the Class Action suits that he is over-reacting.


I listened to an interview this morning on ESPN radio with the play by play announcer for the Saints, probably the most level headed response since this whole fiasco started....he echoed most of your sentiments...He also pointed out that most of the 20 some odd players involved no longer play for the team or are even in the league. wow

there was also a report that Goodell was meeting with the NFLPA so that whatever action he takes is well within the parameters of the CBA, so that he doesnt have another Pac Man Jones situation on his hands...

The other thing he added was that the real villain in this case is Greg Williams, but unfortunately Payton will pay with his scalp too, and also for playing dumb instead of admitting to the coverup in his interview with the league..This announcer figures Williams will be a pariah and never coach again at the pro or college level....

wpevey
03-25-2012, 06:08 AM
The problem I have w/ the entire situation is not that the team was punished but that the punishment was extream in order to prove a point to a bunch of lawyers, and the saints just happened to be the scape goats. If your gonna be a hardliner, then do it accross the board.

Where was all this outrage and discipline when the pats cheated? When Plaxico B. shot his gun in a night club? When Ray Lewis was involved in a murder? When Big Ben was accused of TWO rapes?
Or my favorite, where was all the hard core die hards when Vic, a sociopath who tortured, maimed, murdered and abused innocent animals all for money?
Hell not only was he allowed back into the NFL after being a convicted felon, he got a pay raise (100million contract).

Dont get me wrong, they broke leage rules and got caught, there should be punishment but what they got is overkill IMO unless you are gonna be that harsh on everyone all the time. And that is clearly not the case.

dback
03-25-2012, 03:43 PM
Franco.......makes me wonder if a "type" of defensive player will be more sought after (cerebral/even keeled) in the future. You know this is going to change defenses at least to some degree if not to a very great degree.

I don't envy officials in years to come.......there are going to be some very unhappy fans when the outcome of games will be so heavily influenced by them......even more so then in the past. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here. :-)

Bon.... heard an interview with Adam Archuleta where he echoed sentiments about Williams. In a way it's sad that to a degree this is a progression that has blurred the lines.

Franco
03-25-2012, 07:03 PM
Franco.......makes me wonder if a "type" of defensive player will be more sought after (cerebral/even keeled) in the future. You know this is going to change defenses at least to some degree if not to a very great degree.

I don't envy officials in years to come.......there are going to be some very unhappy fans when the outcome of games will be so heavily influenced by them......even more so then in the past. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here. :-)

Bon.... heard an interview with Adam Archuleta where he echoed sentiments about Williams. In a way it's sad that to a degree this is a progression that has blurred the lines.

Rules continue to favor the Offense and this situation will too. College is the NFL's farm system and I don't see that changing.

Might as well put a flag in thier belt and stop the tackling. Have the refs blow a whistle to end play when a D player gets within 3 yards of a QB. No contact with a receiver within 5 yards of the catch. No trap blocking or kickoff/punt returns. Just start play at the 35 yard line. We are already heading in that direction.

P S
As you know, it is not just the O players that get hurt. I remember working with Dick Butkus his first year out of Football when he was the Saints' radio color broadcast analysis in 1976. He could barely walk then. I would suspect that over the years he has had all of his joints replaced.

For a modern day player making one to eighteen million a year, it comes with the territory.

One of our network sponsors was Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer. Everytime we played a Pabst commercial, he would turn to Play By Play announcer Wayne Mack and ask off mic, "does anyone really drink that crap";-)

BonMallari
03-26-2012, 02:01 PM
its being reported the Sean Payton has contacted Bill Parcells about coming in and taking over...couldnt think of a better choice

Franco
03-26-2012, 02:30 PM
its being reported the Sean Payton has contacted Bill Parcells about coming in and taking over...couldnt think of a better choice

The sporting press must not read POTUS Place because I reported it Saturday on post #41;-)

It is a difficult option because Aaron Kroner OL & running game coach deserves it. Kroner has been with the team for 5 years and has built what some analysis consider to be the best O line in the game. He did it with late round picks and free agents. One way or another, Kroner will be a HC soon. He has told Sean that he is not campaigning for the job but that doesn't mean he doesn't want it. He feels he has earned it and OC Carmichael wants to concentrate on the O. Kroner reminds me of the 49er's and Raven's headcoaches.

I like the idea of Parcells for one season but not at the expense of running Kroner off after the 2012 season. I wouldn't be upset if they made Kroner HC on a perminent basis. He's young, energetic, very smart, knows our O and is well established within the club.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJFLBCng20nvyaBYzLbs1U3x54h3DIf DSvYicOT3XiheGP8c2Z

huntinman
03-26-2012, 02:53 PM
The sporting press must not read POTUS Place because I reported it Saturday on post #41;-)

It is a difficult option because Aaron Kroner OL & running game coach deserves it. Kroner has been with the team for 5 years and has built what some analysis consider to be the best O line in the game. He did it with late round picks and free agents. One way or another, Kroner will be a HC soon. He has told Sean that he is not campaigning for the job but that doesn't mean he doesn't want it. He feels he has earned it and OC Carmichael wants to concentrate on the O. Kroner reminds me of the 49er's and Raven's headcoaches.

I like the idea of Parcells for one season but not at the expense of running Kroner off after the 2012 season. I wouldn't be upset if they made Kroner HC on a perminent basis. He's young, energetic, very smart, knows our O and is well established within the club.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJFLBCng20nvyaBYzLbs1U3x54h3DIf DSvYicOT3XiheGP8c2Z

Not to mention he understands the intricacies of a compex bounty system:rolleyes: Would be a smooth transition...

duk4me
09-16-2012, 03:20 PM
Again I say poor poor Franco..........at least you got LSU.

Franco
09-16-2012, 05:51 PM
Again I say poor poor Franco..........at least you got LSU.

Still a lot of season left to the NFL;)

This was Aaron Kroner's chance to shine, looks like he can't handle the duties.

BonMallari
09-23-2012, 05:14 PM
the Saints are just not the same team without Sean Payton at the helm...Spagnola's defense just gave up too much yardage...great game for former UT running back Jamaal Charles

Even though I am no Saints fan, I like Drew Brees and feel like the weight of the team has been put on his shoulders, but he can only play offense..

Franco
09-23-2012, 05:30 PM
the Saints are just not the same team without Sean Payton at the helm...Spagnola's defense just gave up too much yardage...great game for former UT running back Jamaal Charles

Even though I am no Saints fan, I like Drew Brees and feel like the weight of the team has been put on his shoulders, but he can only play offense..

You can say that again! They looked horrible and disinterested. The Refs did NOT cost them the game but, the Officiating was so bad I turned the Military Channel on half way through the third Q. They couldn't get the calls right even with instant reply. And, what happened to the last 30 seconds of the first half? These replacement Refs need to go back to the Lingerie League!