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Buzz
04-09-2012, 04:45 PM
Sean Hannity would accuse liberals as having war against Christianity or Christmas while declaring the anti-Christian Ayn Rand a hero.

Many conservatives criticize secularism and the secular left while declaring atheist Ayn Rand a hero.

Do they really know or understand anything about Ayn Rand at all?

See the interview:

Part 1:

http://youtu.be/7ukJiBZ8_4k

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMTDaVpBPR0&feature=relmfu

Part 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEruXzQZhNI&feature=relmfu

Franco
04-09-2012, 05:08 PM
Agree!

If the sequel to the movie, Dumb and Dumber were to be made, between Hannity and Beck, which one would be Dumb and who would play the part of Dumber?

;-)

Hew
04-09-2012, 05:44 PM
Ah yes, the "Dumb Conservative" meme again. :rolleyes:

But secular progressives are so much smarter and not the lease bit hypocritical when they parrot the Christian tenets of the REVEREND Martin Luther King, Jr., right? :rolleyes:

And all of that's TOTALLY different than the Che Guevara worship so popular with human-rights lovin' lefties (and Obama campaign offices) despite the fact that he was a murderous piece of sh!t. :rolleyes:

I'm fresh out of eye-rolls.

Franco
04-09-2012, 05:51 PM
Ah yes, the "Dumb Conservative" meme again. :rolleyes:

But secular progressives are so much smarter and not the lease bit hypocritical when they parrot the Christian tenets of the REVEREND Martin Luther King, Jr., right? :rolleyes:

And all of that's TOTALLY different than the Che Guevara worship so popular with human-rights lovin' lefties (and Obama campaign offices) despite the fact that he was a murderous piece of sh!t. :rolleyes:

I'm fresh out of eye-rolls.

Here is a hint; neither Hannity nor Beck are Conservative! They may be social conservatives but that is where Conservative ends with the both of them.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_new
A great weekly read!

Buzz
04-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Ah yes, the "Dumb Conservative" meme again. :rolleyes:

But secular progressives are so much smarter and not the lease bit hypocritical when they parrot the Christian tenets of the REVEREND Martin Luther King, Jr., right? :rolleyes:

And all of that's TOTALLY different than the Che Guevara worship so popular with human-rights lovin' lefties (and Obama campaign offices) despite the fact that he was a murderous piece of sh!t. :rolleyes:

I'm fresh out of eye-rolls.

So, you don't believe there is anything odd about the Christian Right deriding the secular progressives, while holding Ayn Rand and her teachings in high regard? I didn't say anything about dumb conservatives, but it does all point toward either ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

road kill
04-09-2012, 05:55 PM
Franco/Buzz-the keepers of all things conservative!

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

The only thing you 2 know about conservatism is you ain't it!



RK

road kill
04-09-2012, 06:03 PM
So, you don't believe there is anything odd about the Christian Right deriding the secular progressives, while holding Ayn Rand and her teachings in high regard? I didn't say anything about dumb conservatives, but it does all point toward either ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

Could you list all those of the "Religious Right" that hold Rand as an ideal?

Standing by............

RK

Franco
04-09-2012, 06:03 PM
So, you don't believe there is anything odd about the Christian Right deriding the secular progressives, while holding Ayn Rand and her teachings in high regard? I didn't say anything about dumb conservatives, but it does all point toward either ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

Kind of like the Tea Party (which is suppose to be about fiscal sanity) getting behind Rick Santorum, the big spending, big government GOP candidate.

Unfortunately, these are the same folks that think Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are the voice of Conservatism.

Franco
04-09-2012, 06:11 PM
Franco/Buzz-the keepers of all things conservative!

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

The only thing you 2 know about conservatism is you ain't it!



RK

And, you do?

I seem to remember you liking Herman Cain and Cain ain't no Conservative! And, it wasn't that long ago that you were advocating war with Iran.

You need to turn Fox News off and expand that mind because there are real Conservatives in this world, you just won't find them on Fox News!

Hew
04-09-2012, 06:14 PM
So, you don't believe there is anything odd about the Christian Right deriding the secular progressives, while holding Ayn Rand and her teachings in high regard?
As I noted earlier, I don't find it any more odd or hypocritical than secular progressives who follow the teachings/admire the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr or walk around pimpin' Che Guevara t-shirts.


I didn't say anything about dumb conservatives, but it does all point toward either ignorance or cognitive dissonance.
See, I knew what you meant even when you apparently didn't. ;-) Your posts often WREAK of condescension and belief in the intellectual superiority of the left in general, and of you in particular (not that you're not smart; but nobody likes a braggart, dammit! :p).

BTW, does the secular left's love of all things MLK point to their ignorance or cognitive dissonance? Probably not, right?

Hew
04-09-2012, 06:19 PM
Now RK...don't be so hard on Franco. If you don't like what he's saying today, stick around a year or so and I'm sure he'll change again....the next time some smooth-talking, LIFE-LONG politician like Ron Paul comes down the pike selling shiny baubles.



(see Buzz, now THAT's how you pull off smarmy condenscension!) ;-)

Buzz
04-09-2012, 06:20 PM
Could you list all those of the "Religious Right" that hold Rand as an ideal?

Standing by............

RK

I grew up with a few of them, not naming them here.

road kill
04-09-2012, 06:28 PM
And, you do?

I seem to remember you liking Herman Cain and Cain ain't no Conservative! And, it wasn't that long ago that you were advocating war with Iran.

You need to turn Fox News off and expand that mind because there are real Conservatives in this world, you just won't find them on Fox News!

And you worship Ron Paul.
What's your point?


RK

BonMallari
04-09-2012, 06:42 PM
Once again Franco you fail to understand or accept that there is nothing wrong with being a social conservative, and that just because people dont walk in step with your own personal view of conservatism, does not mean they are any less conservative or any less patriotic....

not everyone has to be a Libertarian in order to be a conservative

Franco
04-09-2012, 06:47 PM
Once again Franco you fail to understand or accept that there is nothing wrong with being a social conservative, and that just because people dont walk in step with your own personal view of conservatism, does not mean they are any less conservative or any less patriotic....

not everyone has to be a Libertarian in order to be a conservative

That's the problem, anyone can call themselve Conservative today. Doesn't matter what they stand for!

There is a huge difference betwen being socially conservative and being politically conservative.

Gerry Clinchy
04-09-2012, 07:26 PM
There is a huge difference betwen being socially conservative and being politically conservative.

If we are purely ideological across the board, then we aren't thinking.

I read Atlas Shrugged before it was as well-known as it is today (around 1969?). I could see how her virtue of selfishness was atheistic, but yet could also see how one could make it compatible with Christian beliefs.

And it's kind of hard to deny that what she wrote in Atlas Shrugged back in the early 50s was not an accurate prognostication of what has happened in our US society today. Remarkably accurate. She did have a great insight.

She had also written a smaller, previous book about how communism was a failure in the Soviet Union. I think that was "We The People". That was not something anyone else was predicting back then.

Matt McKenzie
04-09-2012, 07:33 PM
So, you don't believe there is anything odd about the Christian Right deriding the secular progressives, while holding Ayn Rand and her teachings in high regard? I didn't say anything about dumb conservatives, but it does all point toward either ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

I know this thread is already headed down the standard "my team, your team" road, but maybe if we stopped trying to throw everyone into groups, we would have a better understanding of our respective positions.
Words like conservative, liberal and progressive don't mean anything any more. There are so many different definitions for both that nobody can agree on who is what. Grouping all of us on the right is just as silly as grouping all of you on the left. And all these folks fighting for the title of "most conservative" is particularly ridiculous.
Take me, for instance. I believe in fiscal restraint, limited federal government, foreign policy from a position of power and a mostly libertarian approach to many social issues. I believe that personal liberty, the rule of law and capitalism are the three engines that made this country the social and economic wonder that it is today. All three must be vigilantly protected from the natural process of decay. I think Ayn Rand's books give us plenty to think about and make a ton of sense. I certainly don't consider myself part of the "Christian Right", although I grew up in a Christian environment, sent my children to private, Christian schools and one of my favorite people on the planet is my uncle who is a retired Baptist minister. But I haven't attended a church service in years. I don't believe in discrimination against anyone for their race, religion or sexual persuasion. I also don't believe in creating new "rights". I think that people are the product of their choices. I think that bigotry exists in this country and always will, but is no longer a true obstacle to success. I think that abortion is wrong, but don't think that abolition is necessarily the right answer.
Many here on this forum (Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Independents) hold some of the same positions on the issues that I do. I doubt that many (if any) agree with me on all of them.
There are those here who may be on "the left", but that doesn't mean that they walk lockstep with Maxine Waters or the Occutards. However, they may share some common views.
I'm as guilty as the next guy of labeling and grouping those with whom I disagree, but I'm trying to change my approach to something more positive. I am trying to let people know what I believe and why. I am trying to get people to think about what's going on around them by providing facts and statistics rather than anger and vitriol. Will it make any difference? Who knows? I'm probably not going to convert a leftist to my way of thinking. But I may get someone more engaged in learning about his government. I may help someone understand some of the issues a bit better. Or not.
But your original point is well taken. Humans by nature can be very hypocritical and the vast majority of people don't think. They either react to how they feel or they parrot the opinions of others. It's just so much easier than developing an opinion of your own.

wayne anderson
04-09-2012, 09:18 PM
Amen, Matt!

Franco
04-09-2012, 09:25 PM
I know this thread is already headed down the standard "my team, your team" road, but maybe if we stopped trying to throw everyone into groups, we would have a better understanding of our respective positions.
Words like conservative, liberal and progressive don't mean anything any more. There are so many different definitions for both that nobody can agree on who is what. Grouping all of us on the right is just as silly as grouping all of you on the left. And all these folks fighting for the title of "most conservative" is particularly ridiculous.
Take me, for instance. I believe in fiscal restraint, limited federal government, foreign policy from a position of power and a mostly libertarian approach to many social issues. I believe that personal liberty, the rule of law and capitalism are the three engines that made this country the social and economic wonder that it is today. All three must be vigilantly protected from the natural process of decay. I think Ayn Rand's books give us plenty to think about and make a ton of sense. I certainly don't consider myself part of the "Christian Right", although I grew up in a Christian environment, sent my children to private, Christian schools and one of my favorite people on the planet is my uncle who is a retired Baptist minister. But I haven't attended a church service in years. I don't believe in discrimination against anyone for their race, religion or sexual persuasion. I also don't believe in creating new "rights". I think that people are the product of their choices. I think that bigotry exists in this country and always will, but is no longer a true obstacle to success. I think that abortion is wrong, but don't think that abolition is necessarily the right answer.
Many here on this forum (Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Independents) hold some of the same positions on the issues that I do. I doubt that many (if any) agree with me on all of them.
There are those here who may be on "the left", but that doesn't mean that they walk lockstep with Maxine Waters or the Occutards. However, they may share some common views.
I'm as guilty as the next guy of labeling and grouping those with whom I disagree, but I'm trying to change my approach to something more positive. I am trying to let people know what I believe and why. I am trying to get people to think about what's going on around them by providing facts and statistics rather than anger and vitriol. Will it make any difference? Who knows? I'm probably not going to convert a leftist to my way of thinking. But I may get someone more engaged in learning about his government. I may help someone understand some of the issues a bit better. Or not.
But your original point is well taken. Humans by nature can be very hypocritical and the vast majority of people don't think. They either react to how they feel or they parrot the opinions of others. It's just so much easier than developing and opinion of your own.

I would say that you are a Libertarian with the same core values of real Conservatism. The cheese has been moved. Yesterday's Conservative is today's Libertarian. I'm just glad my candidate's message has been heard;-)

huntinman
04-09-2012, 10:40 PM
I would say that you are a Libertarian with the same core values of real Conservatism. The cheese has been moved. Yesterday's Conservative is today's Libertarian. I'm just glad my candidate's message has been heard;-)

Evidently it wasn't heard by many, since he is zero for the campaign season...:rolleyes:

Marvin S
04-09-2012, 11:15 PM
If we are purely ideological across the board, then we aren't thinking.

I read Atlas Shrugged before it was as well-known as it is today (around 1969?). I could see how her virtue of selfishness was atheistic, but yet could also see how one could make it compatible with Christian beliefs.

And it's kind of hard to deny that what she wrote in Atlas Shrugged back in the early 50s was not an accurate prognostication of what has happened in our US society today. Remarkably accurate. She did have a great insight.

She had also written a smaller, previous book about how communism was a failure in the Soviet Union. I think that was "We The People". That was not something anyone else was predicting back then.

I was fortunate enough to get the books from the library in the order they were written. I really liked "We the People". Very true to life, you don't have to be communist to understand people's natural tendencies :). The books tell a story that does not require one to delve into the secular portion.


I know this thread is already headed down the standard "my team, your team" road, but maybe if we stopped trying to throw everyone into groups, we would have a better understanding of our respective positions.
Words like conservative, liberal and progressive don't mean anything any more. There are so many different definitions for both that nobody can agree on who is what. Grouping all of us on the right is just as silly as grouping all of you on the left. And all these folks fighting for the title of "most conservative" is particularly ridiculous.
Take me, for instance. I believe in fiscal restraint, limited federal government, foreign policy from a position of power and a mostly libertarian approach to many social issues. I believe that personal liberty, the rule of law and capitalism are the three engines that made this country the social and economic wonder that it is today. All three must be vigilantly protected from the natural process of decay. I think Ayn Rand's books give us plenty to think about and make a ton of sense. I certainly don't consider myself part of the "Christian Right", although I grew up in a Christian environment, sent my children to private, Christian schools and one of my favorite people on the planet is my uncle who is a retired Baptist minister. But I haven't attended a church service in years. I don't believe in discrimination against anyone for their race, religion or sexual persuasion. I also don't believe in creating new "rights". I think that people are the product of their choices. I think that bigotry exists in this country and always will, but is no longer a true obstacle to success. I think that abortion is wrong, but don't think that abolition is necessarily the right answer.
Many here on this forum (Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Independents) hold some of the same positions on the issues that I do. I doubt that many (if any) agree with me on all of them.
There are those here who may be on "the left", but that doesn't mean that they walk lockstep with Maxine Waters or the Occutards. However, they may share some common views.
I'm as guilty as the next guy of labeling and grouping those with whom I disagree, but I'm trying to change my approach to something more positive. I am trying to let people know what I believe and why. I am trying to get people to think about what's going on around them by providing facts and statistics rather than anger and vitriol. Will it make any difference? Who knows? I'm probably not going to convert a leftist to my way of thinking. But I may get someone more engaged in learning about his government. I may help someone understand some of the issues a bit better. Or not.
But your original point is well taken. Humans by nature can be very hypocritical and the vast majority of people don't think. They either react to how they feel or they parrot the opinions of others. It's just so much easier than developing and opinion of your own.

Nice Post!!!!


I'm just glad my candidate's message has been heard;-)

Franco - you post this BS & it says you believe most you've given this answer to as incapable of original thought. I say this - if your candidate had a nickel's worth of integrity he would have run as a libertarian, but true to himself he ran as an R because he can coin more money that way :(.

Buzz
04-10-2012, 12:32 AM
Just remember, if you commit any act of kindness to a friend, family member, or society at large, through some act of charity, be sure that you can justify it as something you did in your own self interest, so no one can hang an act of altruism around your neck.


Gerry can you explain how this can be made compatible with Christian beliefs?

"I could see how her virtue of selfishness was atheistic, but yet could also see how one could make it compatible with Christian beliefs."

Marv, I'm not sure how one can read those books without considering the moral or secular implications.

"The books tell a story that does not require one to delve into the secular portion."

Matt, maybe I painted with a broad brush in my first post, but seriously, I grew up with some folks who are hardcore born again types, but yet they also appear to worship at the alter of Any Rand. I don't get that. Maybe they are an anomaly, if so, then I think that the Christian Right and Libertarians are on a collision course within the GOP.

road kill
04-10-2012, 08:59 AM
Just remember, if you commit any act of kindness to a friend, family member, or society at large, through some act of charity, be sure that you can justify it as something you did in your own self interest, so no one can hang an act of altruism around your neck.


Gerry can you explain how this can be made compatible with Christian beliefs?

"I could see how her virtue of selfishness was atheistic, but yet could also see how one could make it compatible with Christian beliefs."

Marv, I'm not sure how one can read those books without considering the moral or secular implications.

The books tell a story that does not require one to delve into the secular portion.

Matt, maybe I painted with a broad brush in my first post, but seriously, I grew up with some folks who are hardcore born again types, but yet they also appear to worship at the alter of Any Rand. I don't get that. Maybe they are an anomaly, if so then I think that the Christian Right and Libertarians are on a collision course within the GOP.

If I may, my religious beliefs are that God and or the teachings of my God directs me to endeavor to be the best person I can be.
There is always the conflict, to me, of the man I am and the man I strive to be.
(youse should have some fun wit dat!!:rolleyes:)
I don't believe he wants me to find all of YOUR faults.

Unfortunately many have assumed that is what God wants, and spend more time explaining YOUR faults than addressing our own..
Those without God seem to be on the same path!!!:cool:

JMO..........

RK

Marvin S
04-10-2012, 12:48 PM
Marv, I'm not sure how one can read those books without considering the moral or secular implications.

"The books tell a story that does not require one to delve into the secular portion."

I served on a SB with a person whose favorite saying was "you cannot legislate morals". This applied specifically to censorship of the school's library. Being able to read something, specifically a new policy, without attempting to make it a moral issue became a skill set :).

I found the story told in the Ayn Rand series to be sensible as was & do not believe the so called "Ayn Rand Disciples" found the same meaning in the series that I found. To say Greenspan was any sort of disciple is IMO comedy at it's finest. That Franco's hero named his son after her is theatrical to say the least.

The Ten Commandments make a lot of sense without any religious dogma attached to them. Those who advertise their religion are IMM probably less trustworthy than most inmates.

Franco
04-10-2012, 02:55 PM
I found the story told in the Ayn Rand series to be sensible as was & do not believe the so called "Ayn Rand Disciples" found the same meaning in the series that I found. To say Greenspan was any sort of disciple is IMO comedy at it's finest. That Franco's hero named his son after her is theatrical to say the least.




Like Ayn Rand, Ron Paul too is largely ignored by his contemporaries. The reson Ayn Rand is so poluar today is because like Ron Paul, she was a prophet ahead of her/his time and the masses are too dumbed down to recognize brilliance when it is happening! ;-)

...if devotion to truth is the hallmark of morality, then there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.... the alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind. Ayn Rand

Golddogs
04-10-2012, 04:19 PM
The Ten Commandments make a lot of sense without any religious dogma attached to them. Those who advertise their religion are IMM probably less trustworthy than most inmates.


I have quite often found that to be true. Nice post Marvin.

Marvin S
04-10-2012, 06:38 PM
Like Ayn Rand, Ron Paul too is largely ignored by his contemporaries. The reson Ayn Rand is so poluar today is because like Ron Paul, she was a prophet ahead of her/his time and the masses are too dumbed down to recognize brilliance when it is happening! ;-)

...if devotion to truth is the hallmark of morality, then there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.... the alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind. Ayn Rand

Is that stuff you smoke legal in LA - I guess it must be, the FB team uses it :-P.

Prophet :rolleyes: & to imply that most on this sub-forum are dumb is not a classy move. Your guy reminds me of another TX congressperson who made a lot of money for himself advocating a position that was unacceptable to the majority. While some of what he advocates may be acceptable, if he can't get it passed, of what use is his position, except to garner donation from self adored intelligent folks like you :-P.

Franco, discussing a position with you is like wrestling a pig ..... except the pig exhibits more common sense.

Franco
04-10-2012, 07:02 PM
Is that stuff you smoke legal in LA - I guess it must be, the FB team uses it :-P.

Prophet :rolleyes: & to imply that most on this sub-forum are dumb is not a classy move. Your guy reminds me of another TX congressperson who made a lot of money for himself advocating a position that was unacceptable to the majority. While some of what he advocates may be acceptable, if he can't get it passed, of what use is his position, except to garner donation from self adored intelligent folks like you :-P.

Franco, discussing a position with you is like wrestling a pig ..... except the pig exhibits more common sense.


There is an old saying, "if one isn't part of the solution than one is part of the problem". Then, there is "doing the same thing expecting different results is crazy".

And that is the status quo in GOP and Dem politics today. And, I didn't imply that most on this sub forum are dumb, you did. It brings up the other old saying, "that we get the government we deserve" because of a dumbed down electorate. It is why we have Obama and had Bush43. It is why our monetray system, Domestic & Forign Policy, banking, and politicains are so corrupt and inadequate!

Marvin S
04-10-2012, 08:07 PM
the masses are too dumbed down to recognize brilliance when it is happening! ;-)

Statement by the only true conservative on this forum


& to imply that most on this sub-forum are dumb is not a classy move.

As the majority of folks on this forum believe your boy, Pinochio is a couple of screws short ?


And, I didn't imply that most on this sub forum are dumb, you did.

Disingenious :(

On a more serious note - there was not one post about those tall guys that visited your fair city the weekend before last, what gives??????????

Franco
04-10-2012, 08:35 PM
Statement by the only true conservative on this forum

I can't call myself a Conservative anymore because I believe in a balanced budget, deficit elimination, oppose both wars, support personal Liberty, gold standard and accountability. Ideals not supported by today's Conservatives;-) And, I'm not into telling women what they can't or can do with their bodies.



As the majority of folks on this forum believe your boy, Pinochio is a couple of screws short ?

Actually, he has quite a few supporters on RTF, I get their PMs all the time. They just don't want to participate on POTUS.



Disingenious :(
I've said on here often that we the people get the government we deserve! All part of the dumbing down of America and I place the blame of the Repubs and Dems catering to the lowest common denominator within their ranks.

On a more serious note - there was not one post about those tall guys that visited your fair city the weekend before last, what gives??????????No interest around here except for the money that was dumped into the local economy.This is Football country along with hunting, fishing and dining.



My comments in red.

road kill
04-10-2012, 08:42 PM
There is an old saying, "if one isn't part of the solution than one is part of the problem". Then, there is "doing the same thing expecting different results is crazy".

And that is the status quo in GOP and Dem politics today. And, I didn't imply that most on this sub forum are dumb, you did. It brings up the other old saying, "that we get the government we deserve" because of a dumbed down electorate. It is why we have Obama and had Bush43. It is why our monetray system, Domestic & Forign Policy, banking, and politicains are so corrupt and inadequate!

Any "Old Sayings" about doing nothing and expecting accolades??
You know, like being in Congress 20+ years and passing nothing???

RK

Franco
04-10-2012, 09:04 PM
Any "Old Sayings" about doing nothing and expecting accolades??
You know, like being in Congress 20+ years and passing nothing???

RK

Heck, he is the one that has tried to enlighten and reform Congress!!!

Have you seen the Approval Ratings for Congress lately? We wouldn't be in this financial and leadership abysis had they understood the message!

Gerry Clinchy
04-10-2012, 09:14 PM
Just remember, if you commit any act of kindness to a friend, family member, or society at large, through some act of charity, be sure that you can justify it as something you did in your own self interest, so no one can hang an act of altruism around your neck.


Gerry can you explain how this can be made compatible with Christian beliefs?


Did you answer the question before you asked it, Buzz?

I see in Rand's philosophy an elevation of an individual's worth ... I see the same thing in Christian belief, the value of each individual in God's eyes.

The fact that her insights into what the outcome is when wealth and success are "redistributed" by force are as worth noting as her personal philosophy, I think.

Perhaps it was her selfishness credo that prevented people from acknowledging what she had to offer pragmatically? Today, someone might be more PC and say "self-esteem" instead of "selfish". She was not a perfect person, nor are most of the rest of us.

Uncle Bill
04-11-2012, 07:52 PM
If we are purely ideological across the board, then we aren't thinking.

I read Atlas Shrugged before it was as well-known as it is today (around 1969?). I could see how her virtue of selfishness was atheistic, but yet could also see how one could make it compatible with Christian beliefs.

And it's kind of hard to deny that what she wrote in Atlas Shrugged back in the early 50s was not an accurate prognostication of what has happened in our US society today. Remarkably accurate. She did have a great insight.

She had also written a smaller, previous book about how communism was a failure in the Soviet Union. I think that was "We The People". That was not something anyone else was predicting back then.

I'll piggy-back on your post, as I'm also a huge fan of Ayn Rand...AND A CHRISTIAN...that Buzz seems to believe is incongruous.

Rather than including my beliefs and views on this subject in this post, I'll just stick to conversing with you on your comments.

We The Living, was written in 1934 and published in 1936. It was an autobiographical of sorts, where she saw herself as an individual pitted against the totalitarian state of Russia. That principle was repeated throughout her writings...she "preached", almost, rugged individualism and the need for reason.

You are so correct in your observation of Atlas Shrugged being prescient. What our nation is going through with the Obama Regime, the OWS and SFN crowd, the PC society and all the other pathetic mind-boggling antics of this oligarchy, it's difficult to comprehend how we are going to keep this country from becoming another Greece.

While Atlas Shrugged wasn't published until 1957, I think she wrote it in the 40's. I was surprised to find she had written Anthem in the late 30's, but it wasn't published until 1946. She had probably developed more following by that time, after The Fountainhead was published (1943) and was going to be made into a movie, which it was in 1949. That was when I read the book, and I really wanted to see that movie, but it never came to our small town theater.

It has always been my view, as a partial answer to those not understanding how a Christian could embrace Ayn Rand's philosophy, her use of the term 'altruism' could be reasonably replaced by 'welfarism', especially when she was having her characters slammed by the SFN crowd of that era. I believe it came from her history of living through her years under Communism and that Marxist form of collectivism...kinda like what Obama wants the USA to follow.

I'm in hopes of responding to this thread in the near future. I recall being asked a similar question by an atheist friend of mine when we were both reading Atlas Shrugged in 1959 while we were stationed in Germany. I might be able to remember some of my comments then, but don't hold your breath as I can disremember if I had breakfast.:rolleyes:

UB

Gerry Clinchy
04-11-2012, 09:02 PM
I think that a lot of people miss the fact that Atlas Shrugged also showed respect for all levels of workers. Can't remember the names of all the characters since it's been a long while since I read the book (the second time) ...

There was a young man who was a loyal, hard-working employee of the railroad who did his job & did it well. He did not have the natural talents to do what Dagny or Reardon or Galt could do, but his contribution of his honest work was also given value.

Fountainhead had already been a movie when I read the book. After reading Atlas, I figured that it would never become a movie because nobody would want to publicize the theory of equal opportunity, but unequal ability &, therefore, unequal reward.

Not all of our dogs will have the ability to become FCs, no matter how good the trainer. Not all humans will be equal to an Einstein. Yet there is value in each life. Christians accept those facts. So did Ayn Rand. A person of faith may believe their natural endowments are God-given. I guess Ayn simply believed it was the luck of the draw. But within both perspectives, there is merit & value in making the most of whatever those endowments may be.

Uncle Bill
04-12-2012, 12:25 PM
[quote=Gerry Clinchy;951857]



Fountainhead had already been a movie when I read the book. After reading Atlas, I figured that it would never become a movie because nobody would want to publicize the theory of equal opportunity, but unequal ability &, therefore, unequal reward.


[quote]

I have the DVD of the first half of the movie of Atlas Shrugged. The second half is in production. I hope I'm around to view it.

If your interested: http://blog.atlasshruggedmovie.com/2012/02/atlas-shrugged-part-2-officially.html

Best Regards,

UB

Gerry Clinchy
04-12-2012, 01:01 PM
I recall that the Atlas movie was debuted in only select markets & rather small theaters. Not one of those openings that get multi-million-dollar opening sales like Hunger Games.

Didn't know it was on DVD though.

Buzz
04-27-2012, 10:22 AM
I thought that this was a good place to post this link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-gospel-according-to-paul-ryan/2012/04/26/gIQAOnJujT_blog.html

Franco
04-27-2012, 11:50 AM
I thought that this was a good place to post this link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-gospel-according-to-paul-ryan/2012/04/26/gIQAOnJujT_blog.html

With so many religious groups and churches involved with politics, I say it is time we start taxing them all!

Buzz
04-27-2012, 01:05 PM
With so many religious groups and churches involved with politics, I say it is time we start taxing them all!

Franco, I know where you are coming from, and I might even agree on this.

But it chaps my arse that conservatives jump up and down and point to the church's position when it supports their criticism of something like Obamacare on the contraception issue. But this kind of thing flies completely under their radar.

I'm trying to think of a good word here...

Franco
04-27-2012, 01:20 PM
Franco, I know where you are coming from, and I might even agree on this.

But it chaps my arse that conservatives jump up and down and point to the church's position when it supports their criticism of something like Obamacare on the contraception issue. But this kind of thing flies completely under their radar.

I'm trying to think of a good word here...

It starts with a capital H;-)

Religion is the oldest form of politics. I can't tell you how many request we get from religious organizations to runs ads in support of a candidate or issue. If they can't stick to teaching their perticular gospel than they should be paying taxes.

mudminnow
04-27-2012, 01:20 PM
There are some religious organizations that give the rest of them a bad name. My problem with taxing them is that we would be taking money away from groups that do alot of good with a small amount of money to give it to the government that does little good with alot of money.

Uncle Bill
04-28-2012, 03:05 PM
There are some religious organizations that give the rest of them a bad name. My problem with taxing them is that we would be taking money away from groups that do alot of good with a small amount of money to give it to the government that does little good with alot of money.


You nailed it, MM. But attempting to make your point to an atheist is like telling a Saint's fanatic his team plays dirty, like I tried doing when one of his beloved behemouths blind sided Kurt Warner. To this day, even after that player would admit to pocketing several large bills from the betting pool, Franco wouldn't agree that was a "take-out" hit.:rolleyes:

UB

charly_t
04-28-2012, 04:17 PM
There are some religious organizations that give the rest of them a bad name. My problem with taxing them is that we would be taking money away from groups that do alot of good with a small amount of money to give it to the government that does little good with alot of money.

Bingo ! When a person starts comparing the money collected and the percent spent for a cause a lot of church groups look good in comparision to some other charities and the government.