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BonMallari
04-23-2012, 07:29 AM
Stan's thread got me to thinking, so much that I couldnt sleep and started this thread at 4am PST..

Where did we wrong as a nation ? as much as we might like to lay the blame on the last two Presidential administrations, much of our country's problems have much deeper seeded roots..

Could it have been the demise of the family structure, in an effort to chase the American Dream many families had to go to dual income households,latch key kids,and the for the lack of a better term the dumbification of America thanks to the boob tube (TV)...

Could it have been as one talk show host has stated that the problems of the country started in the 60' and 70's with the Tim Leary crowd of Turn on, Tune out LSD and an otherwise drug culture and promiscuity that has led to population explosions and a culture almost out of control with morality run amuck

Could it have been the country's crusade to defeat Communism that led us to Viet Nam led by ineptness from McNamara, LBJ, Nixon,Westmoreland and everyone else that bungled our involvement in SE Asia...the Middle East and every other foreign country

Could it have been our greed as a nation,and a society where the lawmakers that we put in office no longer answer to us,but to powerful lobbyists and special interest groups or individuals..

When you stop and realize that a very small minority (not ethnically speaking)of our population elected our current Congresspersons,and past/current POTUS, it has to make you stop and think, where did we make a wrong turn and even more important, can WE as a NATION find our way back on the correct path..

We didnt get here overnight, and the solution wont be solved with the next election

Franco
04-23-2012, 08:03 AM
Most were to wrapped up in chasing the American dream and trusted politicians to run the country. That and also too distracted with living the good life. The politicians sold us out for votes and here we are today! LBJ took entitlements to new heights and many were hooked on pay with no work. I fault both sides of the isle as well as the elctorate because we the people have the government we deserve.

Dustin D
04-23-2012, 08:36 AM
Could it have been as one talk show host has stated that the problems of the country started in the 60' and 70's with the Tim Leary crowd of Turn on, Tune out LSD and an otherwise drug culture and promiscuity that has led to population explosions and a culture almost out of control with morality run amuck



To that tune; June 17th 1963 maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Av_k7_l1E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Av_k7_l1E)

Of course that'll catch some major flak real quick on here. http://www.fairbanksoffroadlions.com/forum/images/smilies/hide.gif
Just saying that's one opinion.

American History shows that we are a Greedy/Hypocritical and no longer United people. Seems were right on track to destroy ourselves.

Other nations never had such freedoms and thus never had similar problems. Other ideas and freedoms were squashed hence the reasons these nations are still standing after centuries. Could it be that the whole “America the Free” thing is really something that cannot be sustainable? http://forums.abrahadabra.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif




/

dixidawg
04-23-2012, 08:43 AM
I think the root of it is general belief that no matter what the problem, gov't is the answer.

DSO
04-23-2012, 09:50 AM
I think the root of it is general belief that no matter what the problem, gov't is the answer.

Don't post up on PP much but this thread caught my eye. I agree with this ^^^. Remember the personal responsibility thread? Imagine a citizenry where taking care of yourself / your family / and your needs was YOUR responsibility. A mentality of self reliance where choices are made with the best interest of yourself and your family in mind. Choices made that don't negatively impact or burden others. If that was the pervasive mentality I think a lot of the other stuff Bon listed would be marginalized. Somewhere along the line our country has lost it's morality. Many don't like the man in the mirror or worse... could give a $hit less about him.

Danny

road kill
04-23-2012, 10:01 AM
Stan's thread got me to thinking, so much that I couldnt sleep and started this thread at 4am PST..

Where did we wrong as a nation ? as much as we might like to lay the blame on the last two Presidential administrations, much of our country's problems have much deeper seeded roots..

Could it have been the demise of the family structure, in an effort to chase the American Dream many families had to go to dual income households,latch key kids,and the for the lack of a better term the dumbification of America thanks to the boob tube (TV)...

Could it have been as one talk show host has stated that the problems of the country started in the 60' and 70's with the Tim Leary crowd of Turn on, Tune out LSD and an otherwise drug culture and promiscuity that has led to population explosions and a culture almost out of control with morality run amuck

Could it have been the country's crusade to defeat Communism that led us to Viet Nam led by ineptness from McNamara, LBJ, Nixon,Westmoreland and everyone else that bungled our involvement in SE Asia...the Middle East and every other foreign country

Could it have been our greed as a nation,and a society where the lawmakers that we put in office no longer answer to us,but to powerful lobbyists and special interest groups or individuals..

When you stop and realize that a very small minority (not ethnically speaking)of our population elected our current Congresspersons,and past/current POTUS, it has to make you stop and think, where did we make a wrong turn and even more important, can WE as a NATION find our way back on the correct path..

We didnt get here overnight, and the solution wont be solved with the next election

Bon,
This was the intent of my thread.
I listened to the Byrds and "Turn, Turn...." and it made me remember those days and how we were gonna make America such a great place.
Little did we know that it already was a great place.

We whiffed.
America is a more hateful, disrespectful, racist place than I have ever seen.
I grew up on the south side of St Louis in the 50's and 60's.
Every thing that has been achieved in 50 years has been all but obliterated.
The teachers (by and large) are my generations hippies!
What is being taught in schools is no longer Readin', Ritin and Rithmetic.
It's become a petry dish for social justice.

My generation messed it up.
And honestly, I don't think it's fixable.

I don't have that long left here.
I am grateful for that.

I am deeply dissapointed in my generation (give or take 1) and what we have done.

Like when we came home, and the righteous from Berkely spit at us and threw some awful things at us.
I remember being so proud of my uniform and serving my country!!
And realizing I had to take my uniform off, because they hated us.
And I was embarrassed.

Drugs, sex, abortions, entitlements (to name but a few).......all things to shut us up and dumb us down.
And we gobbled it up!

I have more, but don't want to bore y'all!

stan b

Matt McKenzie
04-23-2012, 11:48 AM
I think the root of it is general belief that no matter what the problem, gov't is the answer.

That began with The New Deal. Our collective understanding of the role of the Federal government began to fundamentally change then.

You could also look at the 16th and 17th amendments as significant contributors to the mess we're in.

helencalif
04-23-2012, 12:00 PM
Where did we go wrong?

I think the demise of the family structure and the "It's all about me" culture are major factors to what's wrong today.

Helen

BonMallari
04-23-2012, 12:11 PM
Somewhere along the line our country has lost it's morality. Many don't like the man in the mirror or worse... could give a $hit less about him.

Danny

totally agree with this statement


Bon,
This was the intent of my thread.
I listened to the Byrds and "Turn, Turn...." and it made me remember those days and how we were gonna make America such a great place.
Little did we know that it already was a great place.

We whiffed.
America is a more hateful, disrespectful, racist place than I have ever seen.
I grew up on the south side of St Louis in the 50's and 60's.
Every thing that has been achieved in 50 years has been all but obliterated.
The teachers (by and large) are my generations hippies!
What is being taught in schools is no longer Readin', Ritin and Rithmetic.
It's become a petry dish for social justice.

My generation messed it up.
And honestly, I don't think it's fixable.

I don't have that long left here.
I am grateful for that.

I am deeply dissapointed in my generation (give or take 1) and what we have done.

Like when we came home, and the righteous from Berkely spit at us and threw some awful things at us.
I remember being so proud of my uniform and serving my country!!
And realizing I had to take my uniform off, because they hated us.
And I was embarrassed.

Drugs, sex, abortions, entitlements (to name but a few).......all things to shut us up and dumb us down.
And we gobbled it up!

I have more, but don't want to bore y'all!

stan b


well if that was the intent of your thread on the Byrds song you got thru to me, I had already gone to sleep or tried to and tossed and turned,got up and started this thread..we spend so much time here on POTUS blaming the incumbent or the past admin, but the country is NOT headed in the right direction,far from it, and from my POV its not just the country going broke, goes way beyond that

road kill
04-23-2012, 12:19 PM
totally agree with this statement




well if that was the intent of your thread on the Byrds song you got thru to me, I had already gone to sleep or tried to and tossed and turned,got up and started this thread..we spend so much time here on POTUS blaming the incumbent or the past admin, but the country is NOT headed in the right direction,far from it, and from my POV its not just the country going broke, goes way beyond that

Hey, Bon, I open the door for the Red Head........am a neanderthal!!
I was raised that a gentleman treats a lady with total respect.
What happened to that?
BTW--back in the day, when a gentleman opened a door for a lady, she would thank him.
Today they either look down their nose at you or are very awkward with it.

I was taught that certain language a gentleman does not use in mixed company, now I hear women dropping f-bombs and saying things I didn't say when we were drunk on leave!!

There used to be a modicum of modesty, so I am puritanical, because sometimes, less is more.

I hear people comparing athletic contests and comments on political positions to WAR!!

It ain't, trust me.

I am old fashioned, I like women!:shock:
We get bombarded every day with how mainstream deviant sexual preferences are.
When we mention God we are BLINDED with SCIENCE about the non-existance of God.
Yet science would dictate that homosexuality is wrong because there is no biologocal need for it.

I am not condemning the lifestyle, I am showing the paradox in the line of reasoning being used today.

There is so much more..........

RK

Marvin S
04-23-2012, 01:10 PM
That began with The New Deal.

When FDR passed the guy who would be in charge of our engineering group stood on his drafting table at Boeing & said "Best thing that has happened to the country in 20 years" - just about got lynched. But if FDR were a live today he would be posting on this forum with the majority. That's how much the country has drifted. FDR was against Public Employee Unions, which are at the root of many of the country's issues. In 1965 the WSJ published an op-ed about paying more & getting better public employess. Well more pay happened, guess what, the same level of turkey still occupies the spot, just costing more :(.

We have become extremely permissive - in too many of our actions -

Immigrants show up - even the legal ones are not expected to assimilate to the culture of this country.

The list don't stop there - but

It starts with yourself - make sure what you do passes muster - If you have leadership skills become involved - if you don't lead by example but still be involved. Above all don't be afraid to speak up :).

charly_t
04-23-2012, 03:04 PM
................................................
I was taught that certain language a gentleman does not use in mixed company, now I hear women dropping f-bombs and saying things I didn't say when we were drunk on leave!!
..........

RK



Aunt Edna always said when a nation's women's morals went that so went the nation.

She also said women should never hit a man because when you do that you have put yourself on his level and he has the right to hit you back !

I liked Aunt Edna. :-)

All that being said many things are now wrong with our country. Our schools have our children more waking hours than we do and their unfluence on our children is very great.

Sean H
04-23-2012, 03:23 PM
Poor parenting.

BonMallari
04-23-2012, 03:42 PM
Where did we go wrong?

I think the demise of the family structure and the "It's all about me" culture are major factors to what's wrong today.

Helen

thats what I have always contended, I grew up in a single parent home, but my mother instilled a great work ethic in all of us, we went to church, we respected our elders and luckily I had older brothers to serve as surrogate father figures and also serve as mom's enforcer if I ever stepped out of line..Cant put fault on our family dysfunction but I look at my brother and he and MaryKent are the epitome of what you want to see in family structure and it shows in my nephews...They have family dinner even if its after dog training and although MaryKent no longer goes out and trains with Clint she is about a supportive a wife when she know that her husband has a "mistress" named field trialing/dog training...




Poor parenting.

Yes and No.....the baby boomers were kids having kids...as I mentioned many parents had no choice but to do the dual income deal just to survive, not going to second guess their parenting skills or lack there of...after all where do we learn but from what we saw...there are many that werent the ideal candidate for parents but be it far from me to make that call, in some circles I am considered in that category

backagain
04-23-2012, 03:43 PM
The Human Species through the years has had a need to be led. Individualism is a fairly new concept that has slowly awakened in the western world especially with the founding of this country. No other country in the history of the world gave the individual as many rights as this great American experiment has. It truly goes against human nature because it is so ingrained in us to want to be taken care of. We often have a pack mentality. It is natural to want security over liberty. Our founders realized that we can go against nature and thrive on liberties that were truly given to us by our Creator. That maybe our true nature was individualism and that Government and Kings only get in the way.

I feel we have slowly slipped the other way teaching our youth that they need to be taken care of that THEY are not responsible for the ills that happen in their lives.

They no longer strive for individual rights but for entitlements.

Mike Smith
04-23-2012, 03:49 PM
Where did we go wrong?

I think the demise of the family structure and the "It's all about me" culture are major factors to what's wrong today.

Helen

Agreed, the village doesn't need to raise a child but parents do with boundaries and consequences.

junbe
04-23-2012, 04:01 PM
November 15 -- December 21 , 1864.

Dustin D
04-23-2012, 04:12 PM
November 15 -- December 21 , 1864.

Sherman's March to the Sea?

Franco
04-23-2012, 04:17 PM
November 15 -- December 21 , 1864.

That's a big part of it. When the army of northern agresssion sent their insugents south to reign terror on the civilian population. Had the south won, we wouldn't have this mess created by liberal yankees;-)

Cody Covey
04-23-2012, 04:28 PM
The Human Species through the years has had a need to be led. Individualism is a fairly new concept that has slowly awakened in the western world especially with the founding of this country. No other country in the history of the world gave the individual as many rights as this great American experiment has. It truly goes against human nature because it is so ingrained in us to want to be taken care of. We often have a pack mentality. It is natural to want security over liberty. Our founders realized that we can go against nature and thrive on liberties that were truly given to us by our Creator. That maybe our true nature was individualism and that Government and Kings only get in the way.

I feel we have slowly slipped the other way teaching our youth that they need to be taken care of that THEY are not responsible for the ills that happen in their lives.

They no longer strive for individual rights but for entitlements.

This whole post is completely false. It is a relatively new phenomenon to be found in large groups at all much less having any sort of leadership that takes care of the whole group. Being completely reliant on society for your needs is actually completely against human nature.

backagain
04-23-2012, 05:22 PM
This whole post is completely false. It is a relatively new phenomenon to be found in large groups at all much less having any sort of leadership that takes care of the whole group. Being completely reliant on society for your needs is actually completely against human nature.


It started with small groups and developed into larger ones.


I understand what you are saying but if you give something out for free then man will take that path and become less self sufficient. If you feed a squirrel it will become dependent on that food as well. Man and the squirrel both have the option to feed themselves but it is the nature of things to take the handout. The squirrel and man will both become dependent and lose the drive to gather their own food.

BonMallari
04-23-2012, 05:49 PM
It started with small groups and developed into larger ones.


I understand what you are saying but if you give something out for free then man will take that path and become less self sufficient. If you feed a squirrel it will become dependent on that food as well. Man and the squirrel both have the option to feed themselves but it is the nature of things to take the handout. The squirrel and man will both become dependent and lose the drive to gather their own food.

But the flaw in your hypothesis is that Man has the ability to reason, whereas the squirrel has two things in mind and they both have to do with his nuts....;)

zeus3925
04-23-2012, 05:59 PM
While I have no intent for the society to retrograde to the 50's, I am in agreement that the society as a whole has become seriously degraded since then. I t seemed to start with a general crudeness in common speech. From there it devolved into a political chasm and rigidity of thought.

In the 50's there tended to be more unanimity in thought. Often it was said back then the differences between the major parties was one was twittle dum and the other was twidle dee. Some young thinkers of the 60's thought we should have a strong liberal party on one side and a strong conservative party on the other like they had in Europe. I remember one prof in a class discussion saying,"Be careful what you wish for".

It used to be said that politics was the art of compromise. Not anymore. If there is one thing the country has lost, it is the art of making a deal. When you have " My way or the highway", there is no highway for anyone.

helencalif
04-23-2012, 06:24 PM
That's a big part of it. When the army of northern agresssion sent their insugents south to reign terror on the civilian population. Had the south won, we wouldn't have this mess created by liberal yankees;-)

I guess we know what flag you fly on Flag Day.

dback
04-24-2012, 12:35 AM
I guess we know what flag you fly on Flag Day.

Actually......he's got a couple :rolleyes:

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7047&stc=1&d=1335241949http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7048&stc=1&d=1335241949

Franco
04-24-2012, 07:18 AM
Actually......he's got a couple :rolleyes:

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7047&stc=1&d=1335241949http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7048&stc=1&d=1335241949

Ya got one of them right! I actually, do fly a couple of banners(no flag pole) including LSU, Mardi Gras and the Stars and Stripes;-)

dback
04-24-2012, 07:43 AM
Ya got one of them right! I actually, do fly a couple of banners(no flag pole) including LSU, Mardi Gras and the Stars and Stripes;-)

:-) That's better than I did in my football pool last year...:-)

luvmylabs23139
04-24-2012, 09:49 AM
I guess we know what flag you fly on Flag Day.


Gee do you have an issue with a person flying the flag of states' rights?

I wasn't born here and grew up in the north. Gotta say I'm much happier in the SOUTH away from the leaches.

Daniel J Simoens
04-26-2012, 04:41 PM
not sure where we went wrong but we're going down, fast