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Gerry Clinchy
05-05-2012, 11:32 AM
Generally, I don't find much to agree with in what Juan Williams has to say, but I found this nugget in one of his op ed pieces.

[QUOTE]

Over the last few months, she has partnered with Joel Klein, the former chancellor of the New York City public school system, to draw attention to the crisis in American public education. They co-chaired a Council on Foreign Relations panel (http://www.cfr.org/united-states/us-education-reform-national-security/p27618) that examined the failure of public education as a threat to America’s national security.

They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.

This includes about half of the nation’s black and Hispanic students, who drop out of high school. Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military.

The report also screamed out that the U.S. State Department is unable to find enough foreign-language speakers to serve as interpreters and translators.

“The education crisis may well be the greatest threat to our national security,” Rice explained at a recent speech before the Heritage Foundation in Washington.

“The crisis in K-12 is producing unemployable people who will ultimately be on the dole because they will have nowhere else to go.”
QUOTE]

It is a sad commentary on our public education system that these facts exist.

Makes me begin to question: 1) maybe grades REALLY DO matter; 2) maybe self-esteem is not as important as actually getting educated; 3) if you always use a calculator you may never learn arithmetic or calculus; 4) how can we spend so much money on education & get so little in return; 5) people complain about standardized tests, but may that's because they are so unfair that so many students fail them ... because they haven't been educated properly.

Dustin D
05-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Home School

ARay11
05-05-2012, 12:12 PM
Most folks give-a-damn is gone.
And that feeds into the teachers
And that feeds into the kids
And that means our next generation was born without any at all.

twall
05-05-2012, 04:14 PM
Home School

Amen!

Tom

Matt McKenzie
05-05-2012, 04:34 PM
Because we've had a public (government) education system for so long, the general public has abdicated their responsibility to their offspring because they think it is the government's job to educate their children.
Our education system is terrible and the more money we throw at it, the worse it gets. Like just about everything else, the more the Fed gets involved, the more dysfunctional it becomes. It doesn't need to be fixed; it needs to be replaced. But nobody has the balls to pull the plug on it because too many parents depend on the public school system for day care and because we willfully fool ourselves into thinking that we are educating many students who have neither the inclination nor the capacity to be educated. If we pulled the plug on the entire thing, we would have to face some uncomfortable truths and collectively speaking, we just don't have the stomach for that. Facing uncomfortable truths is portrayed in our dim-witted society as being "mean-spirited".

charly_t
05-06-2012, 01:08 AM
Because we've had a public (government) education system for so long, the general public has abdicated their responsibility to their offspring because they think it is the government's job to educate their children.
Our education system is terrible and the more money we throw at it, the worse it gets. Like just about everything else, the more the Fed gets involved, the more dysfunctional it becomes. It doesn't need to be fixed; it needs to be replaced. But nobody has the balls to pull the plug on it because too many parents depend on the public school system for day care and because we willfully fool ourselves into thinking that we are educating many students who have neither the inclination nor the capacity to be educated. If we pulled the plug on the entire thing, we would have to face some uncomfortable truths and collectively speaking, we just don't have the stomach for that. Facing uncomfortable truths is portrayed in our dim-witted society as being "mean-spirited".

Clap, clap, clap ! I especially like the "replacing" of the public school system.
Sadly home schooling won't work for some parents because they aren't educated themselves.

brian breuer
05-06-2012, 10:15 AM
http://betrayed-whyeducationisfailing.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

Here is a blog about a local Spokane resident and the great lengths she has gone to, to try and hold our educators responsible. Her main focus is the billions of dollars being spent on crap "Reform Math". The power these administrators hold is quite amazing.

As an engineer it scares the crap out of me.

It eliminated any doubts of sending my kids to a Catholic grade school. But, I am in a position to do so that many aren't in. Those kids deserve a decent education too.

road kill
05-06-2012, 10:35 AM
I am only cognizant of WI public schools.
The problem is simple.
It is NOT teachers, schools, parents or students.

The problem is who runs the schools.

DA UNION!

That is what has trashed public education.

You union brothers can get all up in arms, and hate me, but that is the issue!
They run the districts.
They are the ones that dictate everything that happens in the schools.
Class size, curriculum, hours, responsibilities, hiring firing based on seniority, not merit.

RK

luvmylabs23139
05-06-2012, 11:34 AM
99.9 % is parents. If a bunch of parents don't give a crap it ruins it for everyone even those with parents who care. Money can't fix this problem.
Smack the parents upside the head and get them in line or take the brats away.

Dave Farrar
05-06-2012, 11:57 AM
I'm guessing that 95% on this forum use an E collar and force fetch their dogs. Teachers don't have that option any more..It went away with the paddle. Now we all feel good about ourselves!

Classrooms are bursting at the seams with kids who don't care. Many of them are the result of poor breedings...They have terrible pedigrees. How would a pro trainer feel if I showed up and asked him to make a GRHRCH out an English Bulldog? Would he fail at this simple task? Why? A dog is a dog just like a kid is a kid...

I have never trained a dog beyond sit, stay, heel and come. So I would never insult a professional with my insight on how to do their job. I'm guessing very few of you have taught 30 kids with different learing modalities, learning disabilities, motivations, special needs, and the baggage that comes with poverty. I do that every day. 29 of my 30 kids are classified as English Language Learners.

Ladies and gentlemen, it ain't as easy as it looks...

charly_t
05-06-2012, 01:42 PM
I'm guessing that 95% on this forum use an E collar and force fetch their dogs. Teachers don't have that option any more..It went away with the paddle. Now we all feel good about ourselves!

Classrooms are bursting at the seams with kids who don't care. Many of them are the result of poor breedings...They have terrible pedigrees. How would a pro trainer feel if I showed up and asked him to make a GRHRCH out an English Bulldog? Would he fail at this simple task? Why? A dog is a dog just like a kid is a kid...

I have never trained a dog beyond sit, stay, heel and come. So I would never insult a professional with my insight on how to do their job. I'm guessing very few of you have taught 30 kids with different learing modalities, learning disabilities, motivations, special needs, and the baggage that comes with poverty. I do that every day. 29 of my 30 kids are classified as English Language Learners.

Ladies and gentlemen, it ain't as easy as it looks...

Coming from a family of school teachers who compare notes in front of the rest of us I have to agree. In some cases it was the administraters who hampered things. Some times a few parents and other times kids ( who could not be brought in line with the old fashioned "ways" ). Having been a volunteer at one school I have some of my own ideas ;-) Burn out is a real problem for teachers fighting the battle like you have. You have my respect and my sympathy.

Gerry Clinchy
05-06-2012, 01:54 PM
I'm guessing that 95% on this forum use an E collar and force fetch their dogs. Teachers don't have that option any more..It went away with the paddle. Now we all feel good about ourselves!

Classrooms are bursting at the seams with kids who don't care. Many of them are the result of poor breedings...They have terrible pedigrees. How would a pro trainer feel if I showed up and asked him to make a GRHRCH out an English Bulldog? Would he fail at this simple task? Why? A dog is a dog just like a kid is a kid...

I have never trained a dog beyond sit, stay, heel and come. So I would never insult a professional with my insight on how to do their job. I'm guessing very few of you have taught 30 kids with different learing modalities, learning disabilities, motivations, special needs, and the baggage that comes with poverty. I do that every day. 29 of my 30 kids are classified as English Language Learners.

Ladies and gentlemen, it ain't as easy as it looks...

I can agree with a lot of what you say, but there is a precedent for teachers who had a majority of their classes as "English Language Learners" ... back during prior immigration waves.

My mother went to school as an "English Language Learner". She didn't get a HS diploma (did get her GED as a senior citizen), yet she worked as a bookkeeper most of her working life! She could also speak and write better English than a lot of today's HS graduates.

Nobody helped her (or me) with homework. The kid had that responsibility. But it WAS up to the parent to make the kid realize that it was their responsibility. My grandmother likely had less education than my mother. She had 13 children before she became a widow around 40 (?). But everybody knew one thing: you work hard to put food on the table & a roof over your head.

There were no excuses for not meeting the standard to get a C, or B, or A. I'd say that some kids may have had lower self-esteem as a result. Yet ... that generation did at least know how to read and write :-)

Truthfully, I see the same thing in today's immigrants. Some do great ... Latino, Asian, European ... some don't. We really ought to study what makes the difference between the two and figure out how to replicate it for those who aren't succeeding, based on what kids and adults of similar background do that make them succeed.

I have wondered how come there are so many more "learning disabilities" today with better nutrition and prenatal care.

Random thoughts ...

road kill
05-06-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm guessing that 95% on this forum use an E collar and force fetch their dogs. Teachers don't have that option any more..It went away with the paddle. Now we all feel good about ourselves!

Classrooms are bursting at the seams with kids who don't care. Many of them are the result of poor breedings...They have terrible pedigrees. How would a pro trainer feel if I showed up and asked him to make a GRHRCH out an English Bulldog? Would he fail at this simple task? Why? A dog is a dog just like a kid is a kid...

I have never trained a dog beyond sit, stay, heel and come. So I would never insult a professional with my insight on how to do their job. I'm guessing very few of you have taught 30 kids with different learing modalities, learning disabilities, motivations, special needs, and the baggage that comes with poverty. I do that every day. 29 of my 30 kids are classified as English Language Learners.

Ladies and gentlemen, it ain't as easy as it looks...

So its the kids that have dumbed down the teachers?
That is classic.
Teachers teach, unionistas whine!
Teachers care about the kids and teach, unionistas care about themselves and getting MORE!!!

RK

Dave Farrar
05-06-2012, 04:29 PM
Are you saying I'm unionista?
Did the facts about my class bother you?
Was I asking for more?

I teach at the school where I feel I can do the most good. Would it be easier to teach the kids whose parents are college educated? Oh heck yes it would be! Instead, I drive 30 miles each way to teach the children of lettuce pickers. There is no better feeling than watching one of my kids succeed.

Sorry RK, the system clearly failed you. No wonder you are upset.

Corey Capozzi
05-06-2012, 04:34 PM
I am only cognizant of WI public schools.
The problem is simple.
It is NOT teachers, schools, parents or students.

The problem is who runs the schools.

DA UNION!

That is what has trashed public education.

You union brothers can get all up in arms, and hate me, but that is the issue!
They run the districts.
They are the ones that dictate everything that happens in the schools.
Class size, curriculum, hours, responsibilities, hiring firing based on seniority, not merit.

RK
I agree 95% i moved from WI to TX. I was a WI public shool kid..... The unions are TERRIBLE there but it also causes the teacher who do suck to keep their jobs. So 95% unions 5 % of bad teachers on their soap box

Matt McKenzie
05-06-2012, 06:49 PM
I'm guessing that 95% on this forum use an E collar and force fetch their dogs. Teachers don't have that option any more..It went away with the paddle. Now we all feel good about ourselves!

Classrooms are bursting at the seams with kids who don't care. Many of them are the result of poor breedings...They have terrible pedigrees. How would a pro trainer feel if I showed up and asked him to make a GRHRCH out an English Bulldog? Would he fail at this simple task? Why? A dog is a dog just like a kid is a kid...

I have never trained a dog beyond sit, stay, heel and come. So I would never insult a professional with my insight on how to do their job. I'm guessing very few of you have taught 30 kids with different learing modalities, learning disabilities, motivations, special needs, and the baggage that comes with poverty. I do that every day. 29 of my 30 kids are classified as English Language Learners.

Ladies and gentlemen, it ain't as easy as it looks...

I agree 100% with what you are saying. So if you went to the pound and randomly selected 10 dogs, then grabbed 5 backyard bred labs from pet homes and then grabbed 5 well-bred field trial type labs and sent them all to a pro and told him to use the same program and get the same results from all of them, we would all know that it is an idiotic idea. But that's what we do with our current school system. The truly bright kids are all but tortured with a boring curriculum that is far below their abilities and the kids who have neither the inclination or the ability to be educated to a true 12th-grade level are dragged along, kicking and screaming to a false finish line so that we can say that they got "an education". We have failed the kids at both ends of the spectrum.

Terri
05-06-2012, 07:40 PM
I think there are many reasons for the poor performance of the public school system.

In a class room it take more than just the teacher. The student plays the biggest part in the final outcome. We as parents put the expectations out for our kids and the school board. The teachers bring the material to the students, but it has to be the student that does the work. It is a team effort and if the student is the weakest member of the team the outcome is going to be fair at best. Put a great student with a weak teacher and that teacher is going to look good. Add in the parents and you still need the student to be the strongest member of the team. The best case is to have all the members bringing their A game. In our school system that is just not ever going to happen. Not everyone can be educated to the top levels. I do not care what Barry says. That is just never going to happen. The class will always be brought down to the weaker students level and it requires parents to push to keep the level up for the top students.

I pushed my kids and the school. The teachers brought the material to the class or I added outside work. Some teachers were better than others, I could always tell by how well my kids did on the standardized test from year to year. My kids did the work and through it all they made it as top students.

Terri

mngundog
05-06-2012, 11:45 PM
They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.

I'm calling B.S. the numbers don't even add up, even if it was true that 25% of youth don't get a Diplomas (the census show otherwise), that would mean 25% of 18years olds have a criminal record that severe enough to disqualifed from the military(B.S.), they just made this cr*p up. The problem with the school system is they have to follow rules made by commisions who are either to dumb to do simple math or are outright liars.

Matt McKenzie
05-07-2012, 07:04 AM
I'm calling B.S. the numbers don't even add up, even if it was true that 25% of youth don't get a Diplomas (the census show otherwise), that would mean 25% of 18years olds have a criminal record that severe enough to disqualifed from the military(B.S.), they just made this cr*p up. The problem with the school system is they have to follow rules made by commisions who are either to dumb to do simple math or are outright liars.

Maybe you should check with a Navy recruiter and find out what the current entrance requirements are. And just to clarify, many states have a current graduation rate of between 50% and 70%.
http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/index.php?measure=23

On a separate note, if you look at the map on the attached link and compare graduation rates to racial demographics, you will find some interesting trends. But of course, that's another one of those uncomfortable truths that we can't discuss.

Jason Glavich
05-07-2012, 10:16 AM
Generally, I don't find much to agree with in what Juan Williams has to say, but I found this nugget in one of his op ed pieces.

[QUOTE]

Over the last few months, she has partnered with Joel Klein, the former chancellor of the New York City public school system, to draw attention to the crisis in American public education. They co-chaired a Council on Foreign Relations panel (http://www.cfr.org/united-states/us-education-reform-national-security/p27618) that examined the failure of public education as a threat to America’s national security.

They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.
This includes about half of the nation’s black and Hispanic students, who drop out of high school. Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military.

The report also screamed out that the U.S. State Department is unable to find enough foreign-language speakers to serve as interpreters and translators.
“The education crisis may well be the greatest threat to our national security,” Rice explained at a recent speech before the Heritage Foundation in Washington.

“The crisis in K-12 is producing unemployable people who will ultimately be on the dole because they will have nowhere else to go.”
QUOTE]

It is a sad commentary on our public education system that these facts exist.

Makes me begin to question: 1) maybe grades REALLY DO matter; 2) maybe self-esteem is not as important as actually getting educated; 3) if you always use a calculator you may never learn arithmetic or calculus; 4) how can we spend so much money on education & get so little in return; 5) people complain about standardized tests, but may that's because they are so unfair that so many students fail them ... because they haven't been educated properly.

To the first bold point. I am a high school dropout, I was on active duty in the USMC for 9 years. I was an electronics tech, not an easy job to get based on the scores needed to get it. I finished my AA degree while on active duty.

2nd bold point, the military trains terps for their job. Not all schools can offer 10 different language classes, especially in small schools.

I put blame on the students and the teachers and standardized tests. I had to pass a ST to graduate, I passed it in 7th grade and never had to take it again. Wow must have been really hard, yet people still could not pass it while in the 12th grade. Students who do not want to learn and teachers who do not care to teach are the true combination of the problem. They are both to blame equally. My parents never had to harp on me to do my homework, I did it. Parents deserve a portion of the blame as well.

I still remember moving to a new school and getting assigned a report. I was told to use powerpoint, at the time my family did not have a computer and I had never used one. I thought powerpoint was a type of permanent marker. I used poster board and did a great report, I got laughed at by the teacher and students for using poster board for an oral report as my visual aids. I got a C because I did not use the right media. It was later changed to an A when my mother explained we did not have a computer, and if we did powerpoint was fairly expensive at the time and we could not afford it if we did have a computer which we could not afford.
Now schools expect kids to do work online, parents to check grades daily online, and my hometown thinks all kids K-12 should have an IPAD to help kids learn. I had a pad of paper and did just fine.

And all of this and I am only 28 so this was not that long ago.

This comes back at least in part to Personal Responsibility.

luvmylabs23139
05-07-2012, 10:39 AM
[quote=Gerry Clinchy;963045]

.It was later changed to an A when my mother explained we did not have a computer, and if we did powerpoint was fairly expensive at the time and we could not afford it if we did have a computer which we could not afford.
Now schools expect kids to do work online, parents to check grades daily online, and my hometown thinks all kids K-12 should have an IPAD to help kids learn. I had a pad of paper and did just fine.

And all of this and I am only 28 so this was not that long ago.

This comes back at least in part to Personal Responsibility.


I think in many ways you hit the nail on the head. Use of computers and programs to avoid actually learning how to do something. I'm 20 years older than you, but we were never allowed to use a calculator in math class until advanced high school math classes. We typed out papers on a typewriter, no spell check etc. We actually had to learn grammar, no auto correct.
When we took a computer class we were learning to write a basic computer program to tell the computer what to do not expect the computer to do the work for us.

BonMallari
05-07-2012, 12:04 PM
I grew up in public education in Southern California, but I received a great education because my teachers back then were old school strict disciplinarians that actually taught the subjects..My english teacher was so good that many in our class challenged the college freshman english class while still in high school and we all passed and didnt have to take it ...my math class was where you actually had to show your work to show how you solved the problem..in history and govt we were taught just that,no slanted political view

Unfortunately my generation spawned the teachers/professors of today, sad to say but somewhere along the way they forgot what they learned and started to interject their own personal agendas and left the subject matter behind...the really good ones, left the profession and made better money elsewhere

Cody Covey
05-07-2012, 12:41 PM
And no offense but most people your age are becoming a burden on the workforce because they have no clue how to use a computer. Everything uses a computer these days and knowing how to use one is a huge leg up over people who can't. To say that they are making it so kids don't have to learn is crap and is taking away from where the blame should lie which is with the kids and parents.

Jason Glavich
05-07-2012, 01:31 PM
And no offense but most people your age are becoming a burden on the workforce because they have no clue how to use a computer. Everything uses a computer these days and knowing how to use one is a huge leg up over people who can't. To say that they are making it so kids don't have to learn is crap and is taking away from where the blame should lie which is with the kids and parents.

I am very good with computers. But my basic education did not need a computer at all. The basics do not need a computer, spelling,history,math. Although computers make research easier, it also makes cheating easier. Calculators are used way too early in my opinion.

The computer does not do the critical thinking for you. At an early age you learn how to solve problems, not punch them into a computer and have it spit out an answer.

People whos age were you talking about?

Down East Labs 217
05-07-2012, 01:33 PM
And no offense but most people your age are becoming a burden on the workforce because they have no clue how to use a computer. Everything uses a computer these days and knowing how to use one is a huge leg up over people who can't. To say that they are making it so kids don't have to learn is crap and is taking away from where the blame should lie which is with the kids and parents.

This whole comment deserves a big BULL $HIT comment.

My 18 year old is an A/B student. Ask him simple multiplication and he can't do it in his head. He can't do simple number manipulation in his head to figure out a math problem. But he can use a calculator to figure it out. Kids today have learned how to use computers instead of their brains.

The down fall of school happened when the curriculum shifted from teach kids how to think, to teaching kids how to let machines think for them

Richard

HPL
05-07-2012, 02:23 PM
This whole comment deserves a big BULL $HIT comment.

My 18 year old is an A/B student. Ask him simple multiplication and he can't do it in his head. He can't do simple number manipulation in his head to figure out a math problem. But he can use a calculator to figure it out. Kids today have learned how to use computers instead of their brains.

The down fall of school happened when the curriculum shifted from teach kids how to think, to teaching kids how to let machines think for them

Richard
Can I hear an "amen, Brother!"?

luvmylabs23139
05-07-2012, 02:37 PM
And no offense but most people your age are becoming a burden on the workforce because they have no clue how to use a computer. Everything uses a computer these days and knowing how to use one is a huge leg up over people who can't. To say that they are making it so kids don't have to learn is crap and is taking away from where the blame should lie which is with the kids and parents.


Huh??? I never said my generation did learn about computers. I said that when we learned we were taught actual computer programming. Started with Basic then moved on to fortran and cobolt. We knew what DOS was.

Cody Covey
05-07-2012, 03:11 PM
This whole comment deserves a big BULL $HIT comment.

My 18 year old is an A/B student. Ask him simple multiplication and he can't do it in his head. He can't do simple number manipulation in his head to figure out a math problem. But he can use a calculator to figure it out. Kids today have learned how to use computers instead of their brains.

The down fall of school happened when the curriculum shifted from teach kids how to think, to teaching kids how to let machines think for them

Richard
He will also never need to do it in his head either so the point is moot. As long as he understands the process and can do the math what does it matter? Computers and calculators are here to stay so why not utilize them? I'll agree that early on they need to learn the process without them but after that why not use a calculator to do the math for you. As far as not using computers for research that is just ridiculous. If you are worried about cheating there are many providers that will check a paper for plagiarism. Encyclopedias are thing of the past. Slower and less reliable then current research available on the internet.

Computers are not going away and we shouldn't be teaching kids like they are.

road kill
05-07-2012, 03:18 PM
He will also never need to do it in his head either so the point is moot. As long as he understands the process and can do the math what does it matter? Computers and calculators are here to stay so why not utilize them? I'll agree that early on they need to learn the process without them but after that why not use a calculator to do the math for you. As far as not using computers for research that is just ridiculous. If you are worried about cheating there are many providers that will check a paper for plagiarism. Encyclopedias are thing of the past. Slower and less reliable then current research available on the internet.

Computers are not going away and we shouldn't be teaching kids like they are.

The issue is not wether computers are going away, the issue is analytical thinking and work ethics devolving!!
And we should be teaching kids as though they are!:D


Just sayin'........


RK

Marvin S
05-07-2012, 04:59 PM
He will also never need to do it in his head either so the point is moot. As long as he understands the process and can do the math what does it matter? Computers and calculators are here to stay so why not utilize them? I'll agree that early on they need to learn the process without them but after that why not use a calculator to do the math for you. As far as not using computers for research that is just ridiculous. If you are worried about cheating there are many providers that will check a paper for plagiarism. Encyclopedias are thing of the past. Slower and less reliable then current research available on the internet.

Computers are not going away and we shouldn't be teaching kids like they are.

Being from the Dark Ages I probably shouldn't enter this conversation but will tell you that the ability to look at a column of numbers & recognize the result is incorrect is a real asset. Try that on your calculator in the time it took me to figure that out. The ability to recognize garbage is not an electronic device's MO.

Computers & calculators are a real asset, properly used. The ability to reason is also a real asset, properly used. The person with the reason talent will figure out how to use the 1st set of tools to their advantage.

As long as we have politico's & teachers unions the kids will be left with the short straw.

HPL
05-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Having entered college in '73, I am sort of at the very beginning of the personal computing age and I too took a programming class, and have had a computer for at least 25 years so am fairly acquainted with the benefits they provide, however, I also am from a generation that was not allowed to use calculators highschool (and although they existed at the time, they would have been cost prohibitive) and could only use them on a limited basis in college. I can remember spending somewhere around one hundred (1970's) dollars for my first Texas Instruments calculator that would do the four basics plus square root maybe. So, I too can add, subtract, multiply, and divide fairly well in my head and that ability has saved me money on multiple occasions when some "technologically proficient" product of our current educational system standing behind the cash-register hit the wrong button. It always amazes me when one of these folks asks me for several dollars over what the ticket should have been without even blinking.

road kill
05-07-2012, 06:05 PM
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae87/writeaprogram/Sep2010/SlideRule.jpg


How many kids today even know what this is, let alone how to use it?:D


Just askin'...........


RK

ARay11
05-07-2012, 06:17 PM
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae87/writeaprogram/Sep2010/SlideRule.jpg


How many kids today even know what this is, let alone how to use it?:D


Just askin'...........


RK



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gb2lzwiEYBQ/TLUrM4XSOyI/AAAAAAAAABE/epT-C4rJCXM/s1600/abacus.jpg

and how about this one? :rolleyes:

Gerry Clinchy
05-07-2012, 09:23 PM
I think Stan hit the nail on the head when he mentioned teaching the kids to think. Math, I think, is an excellent way to train a brain to be organized & analytical. Betcha the guys who invented the calculators had good mathematical/analytical thought processes :-)

So, we're back to the fact that at some point, an education can have sound foundations even without having a calculator or computer. To use those tools to best advantage, first the human needs a background to use them for.

Erik Vigeland
05-18-2012, 11:31 PM
How many of you have actually stepped in a working classroom in the last 10-25 years? I still teach kids how to diagram sentences on the board. "Old school," huh? I also use computers and iPads as tools to help my students understand and reinforce what has been taught. Go and volunteer at a school. See what is going on. We aren't all bad people.

luvmylabs23139
05-19-2012, 11:58 AM
Magic and I go every Wed morning. Here's the program we work with.
http://www.tdi-dog.org/OurPrograms.aspx?Page=Children+Reading+to+Dogs

Erik Vigeland
05-19-2012, 01:44 PM
That's great, but really? Dogs in the classroom? Back when I went to school we never had dogs in the classroom, and we did just fine!

Enter smiley face...and sense sarcasm....

I am the technology coordinator and English teacher for my district. We will find out on Monday if we will be implementing iPads in grades 7-12. I am excited and nervous. If you could see the engagement that takes place with the students when using some of these new tools, I think you would change your mind...at least some. Technology isn't meant to replace thinking. It's meant to be used as a tool to engage and further those thinking skills. Do you have to have iPads to do this? No. But you don't need a shock collar to train your dogs either, but we do it anyway.

And for the record, I think your dogs in the school program is AWESOME!

luvmylabs23139
05-19-2012, 02:16 PM
That's great, but really? Dogs in the classroom? Back when I went to school we never had dogs in the classroom, and we did just fine!

Enter smiley face...and sense sarcasm....

I am the technology coordinator and English teacher for my district. We will find out on Monday if we will be implementing iPads in grades 7-12. I am excited and nervous. If you could see the engagement that takes place with the students when using some of these new tools, I think you would change your mind...at least some. Technology isn't meant to replace thinking. It's meant to be used as a tool to engage and further those thinking skills. Do you have to have iPads to do this? No. But you don't need a shock collar to train your dogs either, but we do it anyway.

And for the record, I think your dogs in the school program is AWESOME!

I never had a dog in school either, well other than the beagle that lived next door to the school boucing out of his yard to visit recess! We are not in the "normal classrooms". It's much more one on one with kids that have issues. This is the lower grades. Don't ask me to explain how or why this works because I'm not a child shrink. All I know is that kids that have trouble reading are much more open to trying when they are convinced that they are reading to a dog that does not judge vs a human whom they assume will judge.
For the record my dogs are not shock collar trained. However they are all force fetched.
PS. Please don't proof this post as an English teacher. I paid just enough attention in English class to grab my A , get my AP score to avoid college English and then forgot it all.

BonMallari
05-19-2012, 02:27 PM
That's great, but really? Dogs in the classroom? Back when I went to school we never had dogs in the classroom, and we did just fine!

Enter smiley face...and sense sarcasm....

I am the technology coordinator and English teacher for my district. We will find out on Monday if we will be implementing iPads in grades 7-12. I am excited and nervous. If you could see the engagement that takes place with the students when using some of these new tools, I think you would change your mind...at least some. Technology isn't meant to replace thinking. It's meant to be used as a tool to engage and further those thinking skills. Do you have to have iPads to do this? No. But you don't need a shock collar to train your dogs either, but we do it anyway.

And for the record, I think your dogs in the school program is AWESOME!


iPad yes...E collar not all of us:D

luvmylabs23139
05-19-2012, 02:39 PM
That's great, but really? Dogs in the classroom? Back when I went to school we never had dogs in the classroom, and we did just fine!

Enter smiley face...and sense sarcasm....

I am the technology coordinator and English teacher for my district. We will find out on Monday if we will be implementing iPads in grades 7-12. I am excited and nervous. If you could see the engagement that takes place with the students when using some of these new tools, I think you would change your mind...at least some. Technology isn't meant to replace thinking. It's meant to be used as a tool to engage and further those thinking skills. Do you have to have iPads to do this? No. But you don't need a shock collar to train your dogs either, but we do it anyway.

And for the record, I think your dogs in the school program is AWESOME!

I made a post about the dogs. Now I will deal with the ipad thing. I was in an era before such things. That being said, back then tell me the homework was to read a certain book. Fine I read the book no issue But 3 weeks later take a test on the book? Done gone I don't remember. English class killed liking any book. INspect the lead character??? WHY ?? I wanted and still do to read a book and enjoy the story. That is the end of it. The best class I ever took for the old SATS English portion was Latin.

luvmylabs23139
05-19-2012, 02:51 PM
I need to add on to this. Have you ever tried going to the store and then letting the kid see the 5 dollar bill before they cash you out for a 2 dollar and something purchase? They key $5 into the register before the person can dig for the change. Then you produce coins. They can't do the math and fix it becase the register says the change for the five.

luvmylabs23139
05-19-2012, 03:23 PM
Magic and I go every Wed morning. Here's the program we work with.
http://www.tdi-dog.org/OurPrograms.aspx?Page=Children+Reading+to+Dogs

Again I went to school and we did better before Ipads! We were taught how to tell a computer to do something for us rather than the computer doing stuff for us.

Erik Vigeland
05-19-2012, 07:54 PM
Again I went to school and we did better before Ipads! We were taught how to tell a computer to do something for us rather than the computer doing stuff for us.

Explain how you did better? That's a very relative term. Maybe you wouldn't do better, but kids aren't the same as when you and I went to school. You should see what happens when you hand a student with a reading disability an iPad and put them on a reading App. The engagement is unmeasurable. I put six iPads with our reading specialist two years ago. She now has to tell the kids to go out for recess instead of going on their reading Apps.

I don't expect to sway your thinking, and I don't think you are wrong in some of your thinking either. What I do hope is that maybe you can see that some of us teachers are good eggs (even those of us that have been doing it for awhile...15 years and counting), and that technology has its place in the classroom...not to take it over, but to be used as a tool to help aid in the learning process.

On a much lighter note, 3 weeks until my new lab comes to live with us. Can't wait to have four legs in the house again!

luvmylabs23139
05-19-2012, 09:23 PM
[QUOTE=BPVigs;On a much lighter note, 3 weeks until my new lab comes to live with us. Can't wait to have four legs in the house again![/QUOTE]

Congrats on the new addition. Nothing heals the broken heart better than puppy breath. Be sure to send puppy pics to the forum.