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View Full Version : Attorneys.... who needs them?? GDG



Eric Fryer
05-24-2012, 01:11 PM
So I just got home from dog training and had a pleasant visit with a process server. Turns out me and the wife are getting sued over a "Major Car accident" my wife was involved in last summer. Jenny was backing out at the local mall and did not see Jose in his shiney brand new 1986 Chevy S-10 blazer. She ended up hitting the passanger side and scratched his new paint job up.... very little body damage. Anyway long story short, I get served by Jose's attorney (another blessed soul in our country on a green card) for damages to his prized vehicle, and oh yeah the $25,000 in medical bills that his poor client had to endure.

I guess Ole Jose was not able to walk for weeks, and still cant bend over. The poor dude, I feel for him. But then again I have video footage of him on my cell phone bending over inspecting his prize vehicle, crawling under it, walking & talking and acting totally normal for the 30 minutes we were there.
I dont really care if we do get sued (Insurance company already told me they are covering the lawsuit for us) I hope we get our day in court and Jose and his attorney dont get a dime..... which is about what that piece of $hit car he was driving was worth.

Freaking attorneys.... WHO NEEDS THEM!!

huntinman
05-24-2012, 01:23 PM
So I just got home from dog training and had a pleasant visit with a process server. Turns out me and the wife are getting sued over a "Major Car accident" my wife was involved in last summer. Jenny was backing out at the local mall and did not see Jose in his shiney brand new 1986 Chevy S-10 blazer. She ended up hitting the passanger side and scratched his new paint job up.... very little body damage. Anyway long story short, I get served by Jose's attorney (another blessed soul in our country on a green card) for damages to his prized vehicle, and oh yeah the $25,000 in medical bills that his poor client had to endure.

I guess Ole Jose was not able to walk for weeks, and still cant bend over. The poor dude, I feel for him. But then again I have video footage of him on my cell phone bending over inspecting his prize vehicle, crawling under it, walking & talking and acting totally normal for the 30 minutes we were there.
I dont really care if we do get sued (Insurance company already told me they are covering the lawsuit for us) I hope we get our day in court and Jose and his attorney dont get a dime..... which is about what that piece of $hit car he was driving was worth.

Freaking attorneys.... WHO NEEDS THEM!!

Right now...you do. (even if it's the Insurance company's atty)

Eric Fryer
05-24-2012, 01:32 PM
Right now...you do. (even if it's the Insurance company's atty)

Sad but true....

Tom Watson
05-24-2012, 01:40 PM
What's really sad is a bus full of attorneys going over a cliff with empty seats.

Tom Watson
05-24-2012, 01:44 PM
Even your attorneys are part of the game. They'll get you taken care of after they bill a few (or more, or lots more) hours.

Justin Allen
05-24-2012, 02:06 PM
I deal with it all the time in my line of work. When I get cases like this I push the other person to an atty and draw a hard line in the sand on what I'm willing to do. If they want more, file suit. It all depends on your venue. The defense atty with your company will handle it.

Charles C.
05-24-2012, 02:28 PM
Who needs attorneys? Nearly everyone. Unfortunately, the "bad apple in every bunch" mantra never gets applied to attorneys. I bet I can find losers in any profession or occupation, but that doesn't make them all bad.

Jennifer Henion
05-24-2012, 02:44 PM
Charles, please post more often! I am filled with unexplainable joy every time I see your Avatar!!!!!

Oh yeah, and what you say is good, too... My husband is an attorney who represents local government and regularly gets to spend valuable time and tax payer money defending against lawsuits brought on by parasites who deliberately injure themselves on public property. He wins 99.9% of the cases because they are so rediculous. But just think of the time and money wasted.

It's like the ole gun rights slogan: It's not attorneys who hurt people, it's stupid people who hurt people.


Jennifer

mngundog
05-24-2012, 03:50 PM
Charles, please post more often! I am filled with unexplainable joy every time I see your Avatar!!!!!

Oh yeah, and what you say is good, too... My husband is an attorney who represents local government and regularly gets to spend valuable time and tax payer money defending against lawsuits brought on by parasites who deliberately injure themselves on public property. He wins 99.9% of the cases because they are so rediculous. But just think of the time and money wasted.

It's like the ole gun rights slogan: It's not attorneys who hurt people, it's stupid people who hurt people.


Jennifer
But for every one of those crooked cases, there is a crooked attorney representing them. So while you will be able to find a small amount of scum in every profession, attorneys seems to have a very large ratio.

hotel4dogs
05-24-2012, 04:06 PM
ever notice how many democratic presidents are/were attorneys??

luvmylabs23139
05-24-2012, 05:58 PM
If the looser had to pay the legal bills of the winner most of the bs suits would go away.

moscowitz
05-24-2012, 06:33 PM
Kill all attorneys so anarchy can reign. Yes we don't need lawyers let the lynch mobs reign. Just pray they don't come for you.

luvmylabs23139
05-24-2012, 06:40 PM
Maybe we should move this to potus since it is turning that way.

Jennifer Henion
05-24-2012, 06:46 PM
But for every one of those crooked cases, there is a crooked attorney representing them. So while you will be able to find a small amount of scum in every profession, attorneys seems to have a very large ratio.

Not true at all. More than half of these people don't have an attorney to help them file their claim. They simply have to fill out paperwork at the government office counter, take it to the courthouse and get it filed. Parasitic people are pretty darn good at figuring out the "System" and taking advantage of it to the expense of tax payers.

Bubba
05-24-2012, 06:56 PM
Ummmmmm.......... Actually /paul is frequently in need of a lawyer.

Beer theiving little baskird regards

Bubba

luvmylabs23139
05-24-2012, 07:16 PM
Kill all attorneys so anarchy can reign. Yes we don't need lawyers let the lynch mobs reign. Just pray they don't come for you.

GIve me a break. The lawyers only take cases when they sniff money even if it is bs. Lets be real the lawyer made sure their was money to be had. Good luck finding a lawyer to go against JOSE illegal with zero insurance. Of course they will take JOSE ILLEGALS case rather than turning the slimeball in for being illegal!!!
Thank god I said goodbye to CT years ago.

Dman
05-24-2012, 07:25 PM
Ummmmmm.......... Actually /paul is frequently in need of a lawyer.

Beer theiving little baskird regards

Bubba
I'm ready to sue the baskird! :razz:....I just need a lawyer!

Ted Shih
05-24-2012, 07:28 PM
If the looser had to pay the legal bills of the winner most of the bs suits would go away.

I think you would find that wealthy individuals or corporations would crush the little guy because the little guy could not afford representation. I spent a big chunk of my life defending large corporations in trial across the country. Yes, there are some real slime ball plaintiff's attorneys out there. But, there are also some very good - and decent - ones. For all of the problems associated with contigency fee agreements and litigation, I think that if you abolished them, the big companies would run amuck.

luvmylabs23139
05-24-2012, 07:44 PM
I think you would find that wealthy individuals or corporations would crush the little guy because the little guy could not afford representation. I spent a big chunk of my life defending large corporations in trial across the country. Yes, there are some real slime ball plaintiff's attorneys out there. But, there are also some very good - and decent - ones. For all of the problems associated with contigency fee agreements and litigation, I think that if you abolished them, the big companies would run amuck.

I spent too much wasted time and saw too many cases settled that were pure crap because of Clinton crap that required employee employer cases to go to mediation first. It was sad when the attorneys say settle even when the company is 1000% in the right because it is cheaper.
It was all I could do to control myself after one total BS payout not to punch her out when I saw the her in a store even thow I had no financial stake in the game.

moscowitz
05-24-2012, 09:43 PM
Your an individual who has absolutely no experience none in trial work and the loss that can occur if you lose when you have to rely on juries like you.

rookie
05-25-2012, 12:20 AM
Good post Mike I could not agree more! A good trial Lawyer is a blessing! I know from personal experience. My attorney save me $$$$$$ Thousands. I will always be grateful for his court room skills!
Warren Price

winger
05-25-2012, 01:40 AM
try the wife making a dash for the over pass with a tornado on the ground and running into the back of an attorney's secretary's car. just a bump, no damage to ours, very little to hers. told the insurance company not to settle, i'd have video of her head bobbin on her kneck as if she was riding a bull before court time. they settled.

Rainmaker
05-25-2012, 09:06 AM
Nice thread. Way to bash a profession as a whole, including members of this forum, because of one's personal perceptions & experience with the legal system. Nicely done. Wonder how many of you'd run screaming to an attorney the instant you suffered damages of some kind. Or needed estate planning, to bail your kid out of trouble, perserve your assets in divorce, prosecute that child abuser. Our legal system has its flaws, but I'll take it over what many other countries have to offer for "justice".

GulfCoast
05-25-2012, 10:43 AM
What an idiot I am! All the pro-bono work I have ever done to help folks that could not afford a lawyer, I should have been PAID for to play up to stereotypes of the uninformed or grumpy. Like Ted, I have made a living for 22 years defending large corporations in places very unfriendly to corporate America. And for every abuse of the contingent fee system, there myriad examples of legitimately injured people with no other recourse who would have otherwise been crushed by the litigation budgets of major companies. No lawyer has a financial incentive to take a bogus case.

Justin Allen
05-25-2012, 12:08 PM
Nope, not even close. The person making the bogus claim is closer to bad faith than I would be. If in my opinion the injuries are bogus and someone is fishing, they can jump in the lake, file suit, do whatever they want. My defense atty needs to work to. In my venue, I'm encouraged to draw suits.
A claim rep who has a practice to "push the other person to an atty" is textbook bad faith, isn't it?

Marvin S
05-25-2012, 12:12 PM
No lawyer has a financial incentive to take a bogus case.

Agree!! My curiousity is piqued - what does the OP do for a livelihood? Possibly he will inform us so that can be bashed a little. I wonder where the general public would be without the 15%er's to lead the way?

Justin Allen
05-25-2012, 12:49 PM
It is not bad faith to look out for my companies best interest. If you were my insured and you bumped someone in the rear barely even scratching their fiberglass bumper, this person turns in medical bills in the amount of $15K. Would you want me to make it go away and end up paying about $30K? I think not. You are confused about what bad faith is. When people are reasonable and fair, I am more than that way back to them. You would be amazed at how well we treat the honest people that are in bad situations because of our insureds negligence. However when I know someone isint being truthful and they are running up med bills just for the sake of getting a better settlement it is my job to keep it to a minimum. If that means a suit so be it. You couldn't afford auto insurance if adjusters didn't operate this way. Bad faith doesn't come into the equation here, I don't have a contract with a 3rd party. I have a contract with my insureds. Denying a claim without properly investigating is an example of bad faith. If I don't look out for the best interest of my insured and my company that is bad business on my part. Paying unwarranted and large settlements to people that are fishing is no way to stay in business, and it hurts the insured by causing them to have a higher premium. That eventually bleeds over to all premiums.
So you are saying that if your companies pattern and practice is to push what "in your opinion" are bogus claims, it isn't bad faith?

Justin Allen
05-25-2012, 12:56 PM
I discuss it with my manager before I draw any line in the sand. First of all most cases never see court. I have a hell of a defense atty and a conservative venue. If we chose to take it to trial it is because we are confident it will result in a goose egg--many of them do when the facts are presented. Dont try and make it sound like what I'm saying is I'm trying to cheat people out of what they deserve, that isint the case at all. I never said I deny the claims or I refuse to pay medical bills with they are a result of a car wreck that my insured caused. You can bet that if it is bogus that big settlement said person is expecting isin't happening though. Those $15K in specials will get paid and I'll offer a much smaller amount for inconvenience. If that isin't good enough, get repd. Problem is no decent atty will take them. So yes I'm very aware of how we operate. QUOTE=Thomas D;970607]So you are saying that if your companies pattern and practice is to push what "in your opinion" are bogus claims, it isn't bad faith?

So, with this practice, if the case goes to trial and ex of policy limits are awarded, your company would pay the excess. After all, you pushed the claimant to the attorney.

Maybe you should check with your corporate attorneys and see if this is your companies practice or just yours (not that it would make any difference).[/QUOTE]

Justin Allen
05-25-2012, 01:26 PM
As far as attys go I find most of them to be good people trying to earn a living like the rest of us. Perfect example of an inaccurate stereotype.

Jacob Hawkes
05-25-2012, 02:09 PM
Who needs attorneys? Nearly everyone. Unfortunately, the "bad apple in every bunch" mantra never gets applied to attorneys. I bet I can find losers in any profession or occupation, but that doesn't make them all bad.

Hey, you could always switch jobs. I see idiots all the time. I also hear some of the best jokes ever told & by some of the most extreme personalities. That said, I don't need a stinking attorney. :lol::lol:

Ted Shih
05-25-2012, 03:07 PM
bill Eckett once told me that lawyers and dog trainers were related - no one wanted either until they got in trouble

KwickLabs
05-25-2012, 06:45 PM
I keep coming back to read the next post. All the while in the back of my my mind, the fact that I needed a lawyer in four different instances in the last five years kept surfacing. Each time, I am positive, the legal results were excellent.

Of course we certainly would have preferred to not be engaged in such situations, but there are times when times things just don't work out. Someone is wrong. I was very pleased with how each "problem" was rectified. Anyone can say with bravado, "I don't need an attorney." I do believe a true hermit has a chance of getting away with it.

Justin Allen
05-25-2012, 07:53 PM
I've referenced 3p claims the entire time. Never once was I talking about an insurerds claim.
As long as you are putting your insured's interests ahead of your companies, there's no problem. However, from the tone of some of your posts it appears as if you think it's your duty to save your company money (which it isn't).

Justin Allen
05-26-2012, 12:01 AM
Holy cow you don't say. I would have never guessed. My insureds always come out just fine thanks. If there was a chance they may not we would handle accordingly. Never lost in trial regards. QUOTE=Thomas D;970779]It is your insured's claim and your insured's interest (liability) you are protecting.[/QUOTE]

Justin Allen
05-26-2012, 12:07 AM
Did I mention I'm in a conservative venue? Maybe you overlooked that in my posts. I've done my job this way for years. Every year I'm encouraged to draw more suits because of our venue. We always win, it's just how it works. Sounds to me like you take exception to that. Sorry

moscowitz
05-26-2012, 07:44 AM
I have tried over a 100 cases to conclusion before juries and if you have never lost a case it means you have never tried many cases. I also believe the computer age has made the playing field a little more even. I'm presently on trial and with a laptop beside me I have a complete law library - Lexis and a power point set up that is quiet sophisticated - Trial Directory. These are things that made it difficult and expensive to litigate.

Marty Lee
05-26-2012, 04:39 PM
"Every year I'm encouraged to draw more suits because of our venue. We always win, it's just how it works."

Are you proud of that? What company do you work for?

I HOPE he is proud of that....he has repeatedly states he only fights what he sees as BOGUS claims...I hope he wins em all as they DESERVE NOTHING if they are lying.

Eric Fryer
05-26-2012, 07:20 PM
what does the OP do for a livelihood? Possibly he will inform us so that can be bashed a little.

I am in Law Enforcement. I am not hiding behind anything. Although I should say that yes my original post had a stereotype feel and for that I apologize. I have dealt with alot of attorneys both professionally and personally. Some have been good people some have been slime.... no more or less then any other profession. In this case though, where this "legal Counsel professional" had to take a case to stick it to the "insurance Company" in my mind is ethically wrong. No more wrong then the guy seeking legal counsel. I am venting more or less seems everyone wants a free payday for nothing.

When did the world stop working to make a living and start relying on others giving free hand outs??? Probably another heated topic..... I still hope that we get our day in court, I would be happy to take the stand against poor Jose.

Mike Perry
05-26-2012, 09:54 PM
Since this turned from a discussion on lawyers to insurance adjustors, I’ll chime in with my last 2 personal experiences with auto insurance adjustors.
Preface by saying that anyone who believes that insurance companies are in existence to be “fair: is delusional. They are in business to make money. Do that by controlling expenses, read here “payouts” and at the same time maximizing revenues aka premiums. Also I have to believe that adjustors get their professional evaluations by how little they allow to pay out, and how quick they get things settled. After all it is corporate America.
6 years ago, my son in college in Nashville is broadsided by an 18 wheeler who ran a stop sign. No injuries but total loss on his truck. Truck is a “big truck” with oversize mud tires, lift kit, fancy radio etc. “Book value” on the truck just standard package about $6,000. Adjustor calls me and offers $4500. I rejected. He was “stunned”. This was a “fair offer”. Told him I was not going to be taken advantage of and he better get his act together or this claim would be open till he retired. He turned it personal saying there was no way they would pay over that. I told him to call me when he decided to be serious. A couple more calls of the same nature then I told him I knes what the truck was worth, had already got my son another vehicle to drive and I was adding $500 each month till they got reasonable. Did not hear from him for several months. He called back and asked what I needed to settle. Told im The $6000 plus $500 per month which put it at $10,000. He would not agree.
Few months later, his manager calls, adjustor no longer with the company, what do we need to do to make this go away. Price then is $12,000. He said OK and would I sign a settlement letter ASAP if they agreed to $12,000. I did and received a check immediately.

Next. In 2010, I had a Ford truck in excellent shape a total loss. Book $21,000. Adjustor calls and asks if any bodily injury, how much did I owe, any other vehicles involved. I asked why he wanted to know how much I owed. He said just “standard”. Sounded just like a car salesman. I told him so and none his business. Truck was paid for. He offered $16,000. I told him he was nuts. His reply was that was “wholesale book value”. I responded that if he could buy me another at wholesale with same mileage, just go ahead and tell me where to pick it up. End of conversation.
Few days later, calls again, and says that is their “final offer”. My reply was is that “final” or an “offer”. They are not the same. He replied that that was all I was going to get. End of conversation.
Couple months later another adjustor calls and asks why we have not settled. I told him and asked where the original guy was. “I have this case now. We need to get it settled.” Long story longer, got a check for $21,000.

All that for this. Who needs lawyers? Everyone. What if I had not had the resources to buy my son another vehicle to commute to college or get myself another vehicle before the insurance co. settled? If I were of limited means like a lot of people, I would have taken a good screwing. People with little education or business acumen need lawyers to keep them from being taken advantage of. In the case of the OP, he needs an attorney to protect him from potential financial catastrophe. He has no chance of going to court against an ambulance chaser without proper and competent legal representation.

Marvin S
05-27-2012, 01:11 PM
I am in Law Enforcement.

:) You must drive a nice car. As a card carrying member of the apple thieves guild one would expect you to be more aware of your surroundings, the scam you describe is probably older than you are. There is too much low hanging fruit about the derelicts in your chosen field to waste the time to place it here.

TBS & in the interests of brevity - Intelligent people generally make intelligent choices. As those you disparaged generally originate in the 15% while those in your field originate from wherever, who would a normally intelligent person generally believe. My money is doubled down on the attorneys, those from your field have enjoyed an unearned pass with the general public :razz:.

BTW, did your post have racial tones to it?

Chris Atkinson
05-27-2012, 01:32 PM
I'm coming in on this one late. I was out of town at a trial and actually managed to stay offline for a bit.

I've moved this to POTUS.

Have fun guys.

I personally don't enjoy this stuff, but it appears that this is going the way of many POTUS threads. Be civil please.

Chris

DSO
05-27-2012, 06:48 PM
What an idiot I am! All the pro-bono work I have ever done to help folks that could not afford a lawyer, I should have been PAID for to play up to stereotypes of the uninformed or grumpy. Like Ted, I have made a living for 22 years defending large corporations in places very unfriendly to corporate America. And for every abuse of the contingent fee system, there myriad examples of legitimately injured people with no other recourse who would have otherwise been crushed by the litigation budgets of major companies. No lawyer has a financial incentive to take a bogus case.

Been in law enforcement For 20+ years. There are good lawyers and bad / unethical ones. Just like cops or any other profession for that matter but this statement ^^^ is just not true. Municipalities are soft targets. All lawyers know this and some choose to exploit it. Municipalities settle cases to save money / regardless of their validity... that's just a fact. Reality folks.


Danny

Cody Covey
05-28-2012, 12:17 PM
"Every year I'm encouraged to draw more suits because of our venue. We always win, it's just how it works."

Is you salary tied in any way the lawsuits you draw?

Are you proud of that? What company do you work for?
I think you need to slow down and go re-read his posts. Or are you advocating that he should pay out to bogus claims? I think htis is a big misunderstanding because I don't know many people that would side with bogus claims and you are coming across as doing.

Thomas D
05-28-2012, 04:10 PM
I have deleted my prior posts on this thread. Perhaps claimsadj and I can talk about it at a HT someday.

However, for the record, I do not feel unwarrented, unfounded or inflated claims should be paid. Moreover, I have the utmost respect for claim reps and the tight line they have to walk.