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View Full Version : Final Debate Governor (Wis.)



Sue Kiefer
05-31-2012, 10:08 PM
I only watched about 30min. or so.
Mayor B. sounded exactly like Next Gingrich. Blah blah blah me me me such a polished politician exactly what we need in office. :rolleyes:
He doesn't answer any question posed to him. He makes points by putting Governor Walker down.
I can't wait till Tuesday is over.
Sick of this all.:mad::mad:
Sue

Sharon Potter
05-31-2012, 10:33 PM
Me too. And when it's over, the cost of the recall election should be divided equally between every person who signed a recall petiton.

TY 4
06-01-2012, 08:17 PM
I would sign the recall petition again!

starjack
06-02-2012, 08:09 AM
I would sign the recall petition again!

Then you can pay more. Can not understand how someone get recalled by doing his job.

TY 4
06-02-2012, 08:53 AM
Then you can pay more. Can not understand how someone get recalled by doing his job.

No problem. Ole crooked eyes is doing is job alright "divide and conquer"

Uncle Bill
06-02-2012, 12:12 PM
I would sign the recall petition again!


Did you lose your cushy union job? Or did paying 'some' of your pension, as opposed to having it given to you by the taxpayers, make you feel you were being cheated? Or are you just basically one of the 'fools' that helped put that Marxist in the White House?

UB

Marvin S
06-02-2012, 12:25 PM
No problem. Ole crooked eyes is doing is job alright "divide and conquer"

That's a nice looking dog in your avatar, does it know anything or is it like the poster :) ?

mngundog
06-02-2012, 02:14 PM
Did you lose your cushy union job? Or did paying 'some' of your pension, as opposed to having it given to you by the taxpayers, make you feel you were being cheated? Or are you just basically one of the 'fools' that helped put that Marxist in the White House?

UB
I believe if you teach for 30 years you are probably entitled to a pension, I would even say they earned that pension as opposed to saying it was given to you, sames goes the the military I don't believe our veterans are robbing our taxpayers.

Sharon Potter
06-02-2012, 02:29 PM
I have no problem with teachers actually teaching for 30 years receiving a pension. I also have no problem with them being required to contribute a bit more to it. Some earn it, others just coast until retirement. What I do have a problem with is teachers who are just doing their time to get to the pension, and are bad/indifferent/uninterested teachers...who can't be fired because of the union. And the teachers who are really outstanding cannot be rewarded with merit pay based on performance....because of the union.

Uncle Bill
06-02-2012, 02:59 PM
I believe if you teach for 30 years you are probably entitled to a pension, I would even say they earned that pension as opposed to saying it was given to you, sames goes the the military I don't believe our veterans are robbing our taxpayers.

Were you ever IN the military??? Talk about an apples to oranges comparison, trying to compare a GI getting paid their paltry wages for putting their lives on the line, to some teachers, especially those in Wisconsin, and their lucrative lifestlyes and freebies given...YES GIVEN...them by the taxpayers, points out your socialistic views of life.

I'm as sympathetic to the teachers in this nation as anyone. My mother passed away with cancer just shortly after retiring from 30 years of teaching. Her pension was what she had put into it. I don't recall her complaining that the taxpayers should be picking up the tab for her. My son and daughter-in-law are near retirement after a career of teaching. They, fortunately, were in a right to work state, and never joined the union. Instead, they took it upon themselves to take care of their own savings for retirement.

As to the insurance ripoff being perpetrated by the Wisconsin teachers union, that's just unconscionable. And then to expect the taxpayers to pick up THAT tab also? And you wonder why some common sense came over the voters of that state and elected a Governor that wanted to have some sensible reforms, and try to get the state away from becoming bankrupt? And now we outsiders find there are still many in that state that must have been educated in Greece. They are whining because the taxpayers have found out their unionista buddys, if left to their pilfering ways, don't give a FRA about the people OR the kids...ESPECIALLY THE KIDS...they are only interested in their greedy habits and keeping their cushy jobs.

UB

TY 4
06-02-2012, 03:16 PM
Did you lose your cushy union job? Or did paying 'some' of your pension, as opposed to having it given to you by the taxpayers, make you feel you were being cheated? Or are you just basically one of the 'fools' that helped put that Marxist in the White House?

UB
No, to ALL your questions. Hmmm I don't remember ME tell you what side to stand with! It's MY GOD given American right who I support!

TY 4
06-02-2012, 03:18 PM
That's a nice looking dog in your avatar, does it know anything or is it like the poster :) ?

The dog in the avatar is smarter than YOU!

mngundog
06-02-2012, 03:21 PM
Were you ever IN the military??? Talk about an apples to oranges comparison, trying to compare a GI getting paid their paltry wages for putting their lives on the line, to some teachers, especially those in Wisconsin, and their lucrative lifestlyes and freebies given...YES GIVEN...them by the taxpayers, points out your socialistic views of life.

I'm as sympathetic to the teachers in this nation as anyone. My mother passed away with cancer just shortly after retiring from 30 years of teaching. Her pension was what she had put into it. I don't recall her complaining that the taxpayers should be picking up the tab for her. My son and daughter-in-law are near retirement after a career of teaching. They, fortunately, were in a right to work state, and never joined the union. Instead, they took it upon themselves to take care of their own savings for retirement.

As to the insurance ripoff being perpetrated by the Wisconsin teachers union, that's just unconscionable. And then to expect the taxpayers to pick up THAT tab also? And you wonder why some common sense came over the voters of that state and elected a Governor that wanted to have some sensible reforms, and try to get the state away from becoming bankrupt? And now we outsiders find there are still many in that state that must have been educated in Greece. They are whining because the taxpayers have found out their unionista buddys, if left to their pilfering ways, don't give a FRA about the people OR the kids...ESPECIALLY THE KIDS...they are only interested in their greedy habits and keeping their cushy jobs.

UB
If the military has paltry wages check out the average teacher pay across the country. A 30 year teacher in my district gets payed $48K a year and 30 year military E-9 makes $78K. Lets remember its takes a degree to teach so lets compare that salary to an Officers pay (E8, 30 years) $166K with medical and a pension. Greedy chushy jobs, what a joke time to pull your head head out and look around.

Down East Labs 217
06-02-2012, 08:13 PM
If the military has paltry wages check out the average teacher pay across the country. A 30 year teacher in my district gets payed $48K a year and 30 year military E-9 makes $78K. Lets remember its takes a degree to teach so lets compare that salary to an Officers pay (E8, 30 years) $166K with medical and a pension. Greedy chushy jobs, what a joke time to pull your head head out and look around.

$ 63212.74 as of 2012 for pay grade E-9 with 30 years in service. A tad less than what you stated.

Richard

Down East Labs 217
06-02-2012, 08:15 PM
Of course that is 30 years of doing the countries bidding. Not sitting in a class room dealing with children who have no desire to be there. I would rather go where told and do god knows what than teach a 15 year old.

Richard

mngundog
06-02-2012, 08:25 PM
$ 63212.74 as of 2012 for pay grade E-9 with 30 years in service. A tad less than what you stated.

Richard
According to the Navy link it says for 2011 E9 pay is $6529 a month ($78K a year) for 2011.
http://www.navycs.com/2011-military-pay-chart.html

Down East Labs 217
06-02-2012, 08:26 PM
If the military has paltry wages check out the average teacher pay across the country. A 30 year teacher in my district gets payed $48K a year and 30 year military E-9 makes $78K. Lets remember its takes a degree to teach so lets compare that salary to an Officers pay (E8, 30 years) $166K with medical and a pension. Greedy chushy jobs, what a joke time to pull your head head out and look around.

Not sure where you come up with 166K for pay grade E-8 but I am here to tell you, if that is true than our uncle owes me some back pay. By the way an E-8 is not an officer. E = Enlisted.

As for college degrees, not real impressed with them. They are way over rated and I know a lot of people with degrees that qualify them to flip burgers at McDonald's.

Teachers like military choose their careers, not to get rich but because it is a calling. If you want to get rich choose a better job. I personally loved my life in the Marine Corps and would not trade it for anything.

Richard

mngundog
06-02-2012, 08:38 PM
Not sure where you come up with 166K for pay grade E-8 but I am here to tell you, if that is true than our uncle owes me some back pay. By the way an E-8 is not an officer. E = Enlisted.

As for college degrees, not real impressed with them. They are way over rated and I know a lot of people with degrees that qualify them to flip burgers at McDonald's.

Teachers like military choose their careers, not to get rich but because it is a calling. If you want to get rich choose a better job. I personally loved my life in the Marine Corps and would not trade it for anything.

Richard
I never said an E9 was an Officer, I believe you misread what I wrote. You last paragraph was dead on, I have the upmost respect for both professions and think it is appalling that a politician would try to balance a budget at the expense of either. Sorry I had a type meat to say O8 as far as Officers pay.

sandyg
06-02-2012, 09:13 PM
I never said an E9 was an Officer, I believe you misread what I wrote. You last paragraph was dead on, I have the upmost respect for both professions and think it is appalling that a politician would try to balance a budget at the expense of either. Sorry I had a type meat to say O8 as far as Officers pay.

I can never follow a liberal's thought process. It's always mixed up. They write something, complete with misspellings, typos, and poor punctuation, then try to turn it around to make the other side appear to be wrong, like a game of three card Monte.

The conservatives on this forum are much better writers than the liberals, by far.

Sharon Potter
06-02-2012, 09:21 PM
Also, that 48k teacher's salary needs to be adjusted for their nine month work year. So let's add 12k to that figure to make it twelve month's pay like other jobs. It's a choice to take a nine month a year job, and I know a lot of teavhers who work during their summer break, either teaching summer school or another summer job.

p.s. the union stuff is one reason I finished my degree without doing the teachng portion...I wanted no part of it, and it turned me off from wanting to teach in public schools.

mngundog
06-02-2012, 09:25 PM
I can never follow a liberal's thought process. It's always mixed up. They write something, complete with misspellings, typos, and poor punctuation, then try to turn it around to make the other side appear to be wrong, like a game of three card Monte.

The conservatives on this forum are much better writers than the liberals, by far.
Wow, I got caught by the spelling police, guilty as charged.:D

Marvin S
06-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Also, that 48k teacher's salary needs to be adjusted for their nine month work year. So let's add 12k to that figure to make it twelve month's pay like other jobs. It's a choice to take a nine month a year job, and I know a lot of teavhers who work during their summer break, either teaching summer school or another summer job.

p.s. the union stuff is one reason I finished my degree without doing the teachng portion...I wanted no part of it, and it turned me off from wanting to teach in public schools.

1st may I correct your math :) - if something is 3/4's of something & you make it whole you have added 1/3 which would be $16,000 or a total of $64,000.

When I was negotiating teachers contractual hour were 69% of what of what someone with a real job had to clock, I believe it to be less today & to also vary state to state.

mngundog
06-02-2012, 11:45 PM
Also, that 48k teacher's salary needs to be adjusted for their nine month work year. So let's add 12k to that figure to make it twelve month's pay like other jobs. It's a choice to take a nine month a year job, and I know a lot of teavhers who work during their summer break, either teaching summer school or another summer job.

p.s. the union stuff is one reason I finished my degree without doing the teachng portion...I wanted no part of it, and it turned me off from wanting to teach in public schools.

I agree somewhat, but the downtime isn't a choice and it would be very hard if not impossible in my area for teachers to pick up a job for only 3 months at the same rate of pay they get paid teaching, so to say that their pay is equivalent to $60K (or 64) is a stretch, to say they work only 9 months is fair. You went to school to be a teacher then decided against it because they're union?

HPL
06-03-2012, 12:11 AM
I never said an E9 was an Officer, I believe you misread what I wrote. You last paragraph was dead on, I have the upmost respect for both professions and think it is appalling that a politician would try to balance a budget at the expense of either. Sorry I had a type meat to say O8 as far as Officers pay.


It should also be pointed out that E-9 is a VERY rarified rank with only three in the entire Marine corps, for instance, unlike the 30 year teacher of which there are thousands, I'm sure.

mngundog
06-03-2012, 12:23 AM
It should also be pointed out that E-9 is a VERY rarified rank with only three in the entire Marine corps, for instance, unlike the 30 year teacher of which there are thousands, I'm sure.

Point taken, what would the typical rank be of a enlisted person with 30 years in?

HPL
06-03-2012, 01:32 AM
Point taken, what would the typical rank be of a enlisted person with 30 years in?

I suspect that there just aren't many enlisted guys with 30yrs in since one can typically retire with 20yrs I believe. I should say tht I am not , for have I ever been, in the military (although dad, grandfather, uncles, father-in law, etc all served) but live in a military town and have a regular shoot on a military base, so get to mix with these great folks quite often. If I remember, I'll ask that particular question on Friday at my next shoot. Sort of curious myself.

As to officers that have been in 30yrs, not many of those either, but I would suspect that most would be full cols or naval CAPTs (O-6's I think). The navy captains I have met over the years (and the marine Cols) are usually in their mid to late forties or very early fifties and the ones in their fifties are about out.

Sharon Potter
06-03-2012, 06:52 AM
I agree somewhat, but the downtime isn't a choice and it would be very hard if not impossible in my area for teachers to pick up a job for only 3 months at the same rate of pay they get paid teaching, so to say that their pay is equivalent to $60K (or 64) is a stretch, to say they work only 9 months is fair. You went to school to be a teacher then decided against it because they're union?

I know a lot of teachers who became teachers for the summer vacation rather than because they had a passion for teaching. I also know teachers who got a degree in history/english/whatever so they could get a job that would allow them to be a sports coach, with the teaching merely being a venue for sport

And yes, union membership is one of the reasons I chose to not go the teaching route.

Sue Kiefer
06-03-2012, 07:29 AM
And who says that you "Have" to find a job that is equal to your teaching salary for those 3months of summer.
That's your union talking.....................
Suck it up and be like the rest of us .
What about all the extras during the school year that you get paid for.............
Sharon don't even get me started about teachers and coaching............... :(

starjack
06-03-2012, 08:46 AM
No problem. Ole crooked eyes is doing is job alright "divide and conquer"

The man is just trying to clean up our former gov mess you know the one. The one that loved to rob peter to pay paul.

Transportation funds regards.

Cody Covey
06-03-2012, 04:06 PM
I never said an E9 was an Officer, I believe you misread what I wrote. You last paragraph was dead on, I have the upmost respect for both professions and think it is appalling that a politician would try to balance a budget at the expense of either. Sorry I had a type meat to say O8 as far as Officers pay.

Having a teacher pay a SMALL percentage into their pension and health care like almost every other profession out there is not some huge crime against these privileged groups. They have been leaches for far too long. As someone recently out of high school (7 years ago) I can tell you that high school is a joke and damn near worthless. They "teach" to the lowest common denominator, while everyone else sits around bored because they are not challenged at all. On top of that they teach almost no life skills at all. The students are forced on a track to go to college and that is it with no idea of what they want to do or the best way to accomplish it. I firmly believe that "MOST" teachers in America are some of the biggest problems with this generation of Americans. This comes from a 25 year old who hates most of the ilk in my generation.

mngundog
06-03-2012, 05:11 PM
And who says that you "Have" to find a job that is equal to your teaching salary for those 3months of summer.
That's your union talking.....................
Suck it up and be like the rest of us .
What about all the extras during the school year that you get paid for.............
Sharon don't even get me started about teachers and coaching............... :(

I never said they had to take a job equal to their salary and most of the teachers I know that work during the summer make far less than their salary. I was commenting on the post about adding 1/3 to their salary, I have no idea what the "union talking" comment comes from.

mngundog
06-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Having a teacher pay a SMALL percentage into their pension and health care like almost every other profession out there is not some huge crime against these privileged groups. They have been leaches for far too long. As someone recently out of high school (7 years ago) I can tell you that high school is a joke and damn near worthless. They "teach" to the lowest common denominator, while everyone else sits around bored because they are not challenged at all. On top of that they teach almost no life skills at all. The students are forced on a track to go to college and that is it with no idea of what they want to do or the best way to accomplish it. I firmly believe that "MOST" teachers in America are some of the biggest problems with this generation of Americans. This comes from a 25 year old who hates most of the ilk in my generation.

No life skills, they teach alot of of it in my district, woodshop, metal shop, a very well nice welding shop, automotive, construction, ag etc. I live on the edge of two small school districts, the Benson shop class just finished building a house that is up for public bid, if you need a fish house trailer, or automotive trailer or just about anything that can be welded up call the school, here's a link.
http://www.lqpv.org/trailers/index.php

The opportunities are there if students choose to apply themselves, many choose not to, that is the problem.

junbe
06-03-2012, 05:54 PM
7408

Walker fixed it!

ErinsEdge
06-03-2012, 06:30 PM
I have no problem with teachers actually teaching for 30 years receiving a pension. I also have no problem with them being required to contribute a bit more to it. Some earn it, others just coast until retirement. What I do have a problem with is teachers who are just doing their time to get to the pension, and are bad/indifferent/uninterested teachers...who can't be fired because of the union. And the teachers who are really outstanding cannot be rewarded with merit pay based on performance....because of the union.

I know retired MPS teachers voting for Walker because they admit that's true. They also took early retirement to get out of the city of Milwaukee. Living 1 block from the city limits and it was dangerous. All you have to do is tune into the 10 o'clock news to hear how bad the violence is in Milwaukee, and I grew up there.

TY 4
06-03-2012, 07:05 PM
Living 1 block from the city limits and it was dangerous. All you have to do is tune into the 10 o'clock news to hear how bad the violence is in Milwaukee, and I grew up there.
Theres dangerous places in every major metropolitan cities.

sandyg
06-03-2012, 07:13 PM
Theres dangerous places in every major metropolitan cities.

Yeah, and we all know what the common denominator is.

TY 4
06-03-2012, 08:36 PM
Yeah, and we all know what the common denominator is.

This should be good........I'll bite. Enlighten me "what the common denominator is"?

ErinsEdge
06-03-2012, 10:14 PM
Theres dangerous places in every major metropolitan cities.
But unfortunately Barrett campaigned stating "'violent crime is down 15.5 percent" without verifying his statistics which IMHO went against credibility and even the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal, a traditionally Democratic paper for as long as I can remember, didn't even endorse him. Ouch.

mngundog
06-03-2012, 10:19 PM
But unfortunately Barrett campaigned stating "'violent crime is down 15.5 percent" without verifying his statistics which IMHO went against credibility and even the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal, a traditionally Democratic paper for as long as I can remember, didn't even endorse him. Ouch.
Interesting about the credibility issues, how many on his staff are under FBI investigaton?

ErinsEdge
06-03-2012, 10:56 PM
Interesting about the credibility issues, how many on his staff are under FBI investigaton?
Sorry but that is just plain lazy on Barrett's part.

road kill
06-04-2012, 05:45 AM
This election is about DA UNION getting their money and power back.
NOTHING ELSE!
They have run the state of WI for about 40 years now.
It ended when Walker got elected and did what he said he was going to do.

All the yelling, screaming, whining and making fun of Walkers "eyes" won't change the facts.

You have all seen what DA UNION has done here in WI.
It's been all over the media for over a year now.
(I wonder how much DA UNION pays in taxes???????)

So when someone whines about people villifieing teachers, your representatives that got on TV did that to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ0dJM3h-tE
Tht's a teacher acting like a 8 year old yelling and screaming at the reporter.
I know no one who hates a teacher or begrudges a union member what they can get.
But many of us have had to endure cuts as business flounders and has to reduce debt/overhead.

The state was deeply in debt and some of the states employees had to endure some small cuts.
Far less than private sector cuts.
How many of you private sector people have suffered cuts in the last several years?
How many of you have not had a raise in 5+ years?

I voted for Walker in the real election, I will vote for him in DA UNION's tantrum election.


There is right and wrong, this is wrong!

I find it telling that Obama was in IL, MN & IA this weekend and didn't visit Mayor Barrett's parties!!??!!??



The taxpayers will speak!

road kill
06-04-2012, 05:49 AM
No problem. Ole crooked eyes is doing is job alright "divide and conquer"

Classy, is that why you will vote for Barrett?
You like his eyes better?

ErinsEdge
06-04-2012, 08:36 AM
Me too. And when it's over, the cost of the recall election should be divided equally between every person who signed a recall petiton.


I must tell you that the big unions and pro-Obama PACs are pouring millions into Wisconsin.

They should be required to pay for the election if they lose, and put up the money to pay for an election if they recall again if they can pour that much money into a campaign. Legislation is needed here.

Sue Kiefer
06-04-2012, 09:19 AM
Ya like that's going to happen.
:(