PDA

View Full Version : Tax rate



ARay11
06-18-2012, 01:45 PM
I think this question got lost in another thread and rather than hijack a thread... I thought I would start it here....

What does everyone view as a proper federal income tax rate? Percentage based, Alternative Minimum Tax, with or without deductions, based on income or flat tax?

Very interested to hear from BOTH sides as I hold onto faith that everyone can have a good idea once in a while.
:p

Franco
06-18-2012, 02:25 PM
If we were able to restraint the government from wasting the tax payer's money we wouldn't have to pay a Federal Income Tax! The government could raise more than enough money to operate, keep citizens safe, protect The Constitution and other buisness with the money generated by royalties and business taxes. Even if we lowered buisness taxes to be competitve with the rest of the world, we would have more than enough to operate with.

That won't happen because the Dems and Repubs love big government, just different flavors of it!

If we are to pay taxes, the only fair solution is a flat tax for everyone! Somewhere around 2% of income and a balanced Budget Amendment to go with it. The more we pay in taxes, the more money that will be wasted by politicians.

mngundog
06-18-2012, 02:36 PM
I think this question got lost in another thread and rather than hijack a thread... I thought I would start it here....

What does everyone view as a proper federal income tax rate? Percentage based, Alternative Minimum Tax, with or without deductions, based on income or flat tax?

Very interested to hear from BOTH sides as I hold onto faith that everyone can have a good idea once in a while.
:p
Just about impossible to answer because of deductions. When ones income is say one million and they are opportunities to take $500,000 in deductions the middle class are not entitled to it makes the flat rate extremely slanted, same goes to low end who get by with paying next to nothing in income taxes.

Franco
06-18-2012, 02:51 PM
Just about impossible to answer because of deductions. When ones income is say one million and they are opportunities to take $500,000 in deductions the middle class are not entitled to it makes the flat rate extremely slanted, same goes to low end who get by with paying next to nothing in income taxes.

Then, just eliminate all deductions!

hotel4dogs
06-18-2012, 03:00 PM
consumption tax. Those who use the most, pay the most. No deductions. No tax on food and drugs (tightly defined as to what constitutes "food" and "drugs").
In the current system...no one should get money back that they didn't pay in. Giving "credits" to people who don't pay taxes is ludicrous.
What really burns me is the capital gains taxes. If I invest post-tax dollars in something, and it does well, I am taxed again.
I want to know the names of the 4 people I am supporting with my taxes so I can claim them as dependents.

LokiMeister
06-18-2012, 04:24 PM
What really burns me is the capital gains taxes. If I invest post-tax dollars in something, and it does well, I am taxed again.

You are not taxed on the original principle invested, only the profit. Any loss is taken off your AGI, adjusted gross income.

luvmylabs23139
06-18-2012, 04:26 PM
You are not taxed on the original principle invested, only the profit. Any loss is taken off your AGI, adjusted gross income.


That is not true. If I earn a paycheck and then invest part of it I already paid income taxes on the money.

LokiMeister
06-18-2012, 04:29 PM
Flat tax with an exemption is the best way. A national sales tax takes too much money out of the pockets of the disadvantaged.

LokiMeister
06-18-2012, 04:33 PM
That is not true. If I earn a paycheck and then invest part of it I already paid income taxes on the money.

Yes, you have paid taxes on that pay check but put $100 of that paycheck in an interest bearing account at a bank and earn $2 in interest. The Bank will give you a 1099 form (the income tax form) for $2, NOT $102.

hotel4dogs
06-18-2012, 07:15 PM
I know that. And I don't think any gain I make on my investments should be taxed. My income is already taxed. My real estate is taxed. My business is taxed. My utilities are taxed. My gasoline is taxed. I pay sales taxes (almost 10%) on just about everything I buy. I am being taxed to death.
Here's another way in which capital gains taxes are unfair, IMO.
Let's say I build a very successful business from the ground up through many years of hard labor, working 80 hours a week. Not that far fetched for small business owners to put in that many hours, or more.
Now I go to sell the business, and I have to pay capital gains tax on every penny I get for the business. The amount I owe the government is staggering.
Why did I bother to work all those hours? Why didn't I just sit back and suck off the system? When I figure out what I made hourly, I would have been better off having kid after kid after kid and collecting welfare and tax credits, free health care, and now even free cell phones with 250 free minutes a month.
Um yep, this is a real sore subject with me right now.
I think they should stop withholding taxes from everyones' paychecks, and send everyone a bill for the entire amount once a year. I think that's the only way we'll ever see tax reform.


You are not taxed on the original principle invested, only the profit. Any loss is taken off your AGI, adjusted gross income.

BonMallari
06-18-2012, 07:42 PM
If we are to pay taxes, the only fair solution is a flat tax for everyone! Somewhere around 2% of income and a balanced Budget Amendment to go with it. The more we pay in taxes, the more money that will be wasted by politicians.


This ^^^^^


Flat tax with an exemption is the best way. A national sales tax takes too much money out of the pockets of the disadvantaged.


or This ^^^^

makes good sense which means neither will happen...but would be a heck of a start

Franco
06-18-2012, 09:11 PM
I know that. And I don't think any gain I make on my investments should be taxed. My income is already taxed. My real estate is taxed. My business is taxed. My utilities are taxed. My gasoline is taxed. I pay sales taxes (almost 10%) on just about everything I buy. I am being taxed to death.
Here's another way in which capital gains taxes are unfair, IMO.
Let's say I build a very successful business from the ground up through many years of hard labor, working 80 hours a week. Not that far fetched for small business owners to put in that many hours, or more.
Now I go to sell the business, and I have to pay capital gains tax on every penny I get for the business. The amount I owe the government is staggering.
Why did I bother to work all those hours? Why didn't I just sit back and suck off the system? When I figure out what I made hourly, I would have been better off having kid after kid after kid and collecting welfare and tax credits, free health care, and now even free cell phones with 250 free minutes a month.
Um yep, this is a real sore subject with me right now.
I think they should stop withholding taxes from everyones' paychecks, and send everyone a bill for the entire amount once a year. I think that's the only way we'll ever see tax reform.

You have become a slave to government. The Government isn't working for you but, you for them.

You've lost your Freedom, your Liberty to big fat Dem and Repub Government! I'm shocked more people aren't upset.

hotel4dogs
06-19-2012, 06:26 AM
I think more people aren't upset because, as I said, they don't see the whole staggering amount at once. A little here and there, and withholding from their checks every week, it's not *really* noticed.
But send someone a bill for the entire $50,000 or more once a year, (EXCLUDING capital gains!) and I think more people will be VERY upset.



You have become a slave to government. The Government isn't working for you but, you for them.

You've lost your Freedom, your Liberty to big fat Dem and Repub Government! I'm shocked more people aren't upset.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 08:21 AM
Now I go to sell the business, and I have to pay capital gains tax on every penny I get for the business.

No you don't get it. Any money you put into the business is not taxed as it has already been taxed. What about all the expenses with the business? You didn't get any benefit from that?

I think you need to settle down, relax and wait a few months before you make statements like this. As a small business owner myself, there are many benefits I get from owning the business.

Franco
06-19-2012, 08:38 AM
Correct, one only pays Capital Gains on the profit and not the investment. One can avoid paying Capital Gains if they are able to find what is called a "Like Kind Exchange". I've done this several times in the past with raw land. For instance, when selling property, I have already identified investment property that I want to buy. The money from the sale rolls into the new investment and no Capital Gains taxes are paid.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 08:47 AM
OR, if you are investing in stocks, for example, sell a stock at a loss to offset the gain of another stock.

GoldenSail
06-19-2012, 08:49 AM
It's partly an individual state problem. Having grown up in Wyoming we had no income tax, only a 4% sales tax, and the state is not drowning in debt like California who appears to tax for anything and everything! Very cheap to live there too...but at the least populated of all the states in the country it can be a wee bit remote. I know people who joke at retiring to northern Wyoming though....no income tax in Wyoming, and no sales tax in Montana. Just drive across the border for your shopping..

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 09:44 AM
I think more people aren't upset because, as I said, they don't see the whole staggering amount at once. A little here and there, and withholding from their checks every week, it's not *really* noticed.
But send someone a bill for the entire $50,000 or more once a year, (EXCLUDING capital gains!) and I think more people will be VERY upset.


Isn't that the truth!!! And the other nutty thing is if you pay quarterly the slime balls expect for the second quarter, not a real quarter but 3 months of taxes paid with only 2 months of income or pay a penalty!

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 09:50 AM
Yes, you have paid taxes on that pay check but put $100 of that paycheck in an interest bearing account at a bank and earn $2 in interest. The Bank will give you a 1099 form (the income tax form) for $2, NOT $102.


Nope no 1099 for 2 bucks! Of course by law you are still required to report it.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 09:57 AM
Nope no 1099 for 2 bucks! Of course by law you are still required to report it.

Oh silly me!! I should have just added another 0 to each number then we would have been okay. IT WAS AN EXAMPLE!!!

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 10:15 AM
Oh silly me!! I should have just added another 0 to each number then we would have been okay. IT WAS AN EXAMPLE!!!
I think you are missing the point. A person takes that $100 they worked hard for and sticks it in the bank to save it for a rainy day, a major purchase, whatever, and the bank gives them a tiny amount ,2% would be great these days, and the gooberment wants a part of that too.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Back to the original question. I'd like to see it be a staight per head tax and that includes children. That way everyone pays the same amount. To me that is fair since everyone benefits from the services stated in the constitution such as national defense.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 10:32 AM
I think you are missing the point. A person takes that $100 they worked hard for and sticks it in the bank to save it for a rainy day, a major purchase, whatever, and the bank gives them a tiny amount ,2% would be great these days, and the gooberment wants a part of that too.

Actually, I am not missing the point at all, I think you are. Said bank gives that tiny amount and you are saying that you are taxed on the entire amount. You are incorrect and misleading. A LOT of things said on this website are totally false, incorrect and misleading and I am just trying to correct one of them, not highjack a thread. You and Barb continue to argue that you are correct when you are not. Any financial councilor will prove me correct. Please refrain from perpetrating this myth in the future.

Thank you. Good day.

(Of course the government wants part of it. Everyone knows that.)

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 10:41 AM
Actually, I am not missing the point at all, I think you are. Said bank gives that tiny amount and you are saying that you are taxed on the entire amount. You are incorrect and misleading. A LOT of things said on this website are totally false, incorrect and misleading and I am just trying to correct one of them, not highjack a thread. You and Barb continue to argue that you are correct when you are not. Any financial councilor will prove me correct. Please refrain from perpetrating this myth in the future.

Thank you. Good day.

(Of course the government wants part of it. Everyone knows that.)

Where did I ever say a person was taxed on as you call it the full amount???
I said taxes were paid on the money when earned and then the gov't wants more off of mearly saving the money. I am being honest and you are following BUMFACES deceptions!
I know a bit about tax law and the bs involved and the sneaky hidden taxes.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 10:47 AM
Oh and how's this one for you. How many people realize that they pay federal income taxes (if they are in the 50% that actually do) on the amount witheld for SS/medicare? That money is not backed out before the starting at adjusted gross income!

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 10:47 AM
This is from post #7:


That is not true. If I earn a paycheck and then invest part of it I already paid income taxes on the money.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 11:03 AM
This is from post #7:

NO kidding. If I earn $100 a paid taxes on it and then if I invest it, or bank it, the gooberment wants more money as a result of the original $100.
Let's face it, the gooberment reclassifies money all the time for tax purposes.
PMI is a perfect example. Years ago it was not considered a deduction although many could argue that it was really mortgage interest since one could not shop for it like any other insurance. Now tax law lumps it in as a write off with mortgage interest.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 11:14 AM
NO kidding. If I earn $100 a paid taxes on it and then if I invest it, or bank it, the gooberment wants more money as a result of the original $100.
Let's face it, the gooberment reclassifies money all the time for tax purposes.
PMI is a perfect example. Years ago it was not considered a deduction although many could argue that it was really mortgage interest since one could not shop for it like any other insurance. Now tax law lumps it in as a write off with mortgage interest.

But you originally said you will be taxed on the original $100. That is not the case. Of course they want to tax what you made on your investment, why wouldn't they? I fail to see how they "reclassified" the original $100. Sure they may say it is an investment now, but they cannot tax it.

hotel4dogs
06-19-2012, 11:22 AM
If you started the business from scratch, the "goodwill" part of the business you started with is zero. So now you sell the "goodwill" for $250,000, let's just say, and you will owe capital gains on ALL of that. Period.
Sure there are benefits from owning a business. But that's also one of the things that people seem to *forget*, you get deductions because YOU HAD TO PAY FOR SOMETHING. You don't just get to take random deductions. I can deduct payroll. But I had to pay those people (and provide jobs, but that's another whole issue). And if you depreciate something, such as your building or a vehicle, when you sell you have to recapture any depreciation you took if you sell for more than the basis minus the accumulated depreciation.
Please don't patronize me by telling me to relax and wait a few months before making statements like I made. Several recent meetings with a tax lawyer/CPA give me the right to make those statements.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 11:30 AM
I don't understand why you would think you weren't going to be taxed on it? The government has taken a share of the profits since the beginnings of government. Why would you selling your business be any different?

I am fully aware of deductions and exemptions and how they are used.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 11:39 AM
But you originally said you will be taxed on the original $100. That is not the case. Of course they want to tax what you made on your investment, why wouldn't they? I fail to see how they "reclassified" the original $100. Sure they may say it is an investment now, but they cannot tax it.

That is not what I said. I said they were grabbing more tax money based on a person simply putting the money in the bank. Rather than ask why shouldn't they grab a chunk of that money the real question should be why should they get any of the wise use of a person's money such as saving it???
Think about it, a person either saves or invests money they have earned. Why should the feds take anything from the results of not blowing the money on $500 plus sneakers like MIchele, the Queen???

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Flat tax with an exemption is the best way. A national sales tax takes too much money out of the pockets of the disadvantaged.

Define disadvantaged for me. Do you mean the person that pops out multiplle kids with no way to pay for them rather than keeping their legs crossed or pants zipped?
That is not disadvantaged but rather irresponsible, THey bred it they feed it!!!!!

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 11:49 AM
That is not what I said. I said they were grabbing more tax money based on a person simply putting the money in the bank. Rather than ask why shouldn't they grab a chunk of that money the real question should be why should they get any of the wise use of a person's money such as saving it???
Think about it, a person either saves or invests money they have earned. Why should the feds take anything from the results of not blowing the money on $500 plus sneakers like MIchele, the Queen???

OMG, go back and look at #7: I said, and you quoted me in the post: "You are not taxed on the original principle invested, only the profit. Any loss is taken off your AGI, adjusted gross income." You said "That's not true."

As I said before, I am not arguing the validity of the taxation, I am just trying to correct your assumtion that the original investment is taxed.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 11:54 AM
Define disadvantaged for me. Do you mean the person that pops out multiplle kids with no way to pay for them rather than keeping their legs crossed or pants zipped?
That is not disadvantaged but rather irresponsible, THey bred it they feed it!!!!!

Of course not. Disadvantaged are the people that lose their jobs or are in college that don't make enough money to live on. The people that are actually showing that they want to earn a good living but aren't right now for some reason. They have had a bump in the road, a temporary set back. I am not talking about the con artists you are referring to. What we should do with them is something that I will not say on a public forum, that just opens a big can of worms...and no, it isn't killing them.

mjh345
06-19-2012, 11:55 AM
Isn't that the truth!!! And the other nutty thing is if you pay quarterly the slime balls expect for the second quarter, not a real quarter but 3 months of taxes paid with only 2 months of income or pay a penalty!

Luvvy, are you saying that your second quarter only has 2 months in it?
All 4 of my quarters have 3 months in it. Do you somehow lose a quarter due to a conversion from the metric system? :)

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 12:03 PM
Luvvy, are you saying that your second quarter only has 2 months in it?
All 4 of my quarters have 3 months in it. Do you somehow lose a quarter due to a conversion from the metric system? :)

They are referring to the fact that when you pay quarterly tax estimates, the first quarter is due April 15. The second quarter is due June 15, two months later. The third quarter is due Sept. 15, three months later. They are conveniently forgetting they had three and a half months to pay the first quarter estimate. See, it all balances out in the end. They know they have to pay the taxes, just complain a little bit more than the rest of us.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 12:07 PM
Luvvy, are you saying that your second quarter only has 2 months in it?
All 4 of my quarters have 3 months in it. Do you somehow lose a quarter due to a conversion from the metric system? :)

NO, I'm referring to the quarterly deposit dates:
April 15th actually 17th this year
June 15th
Sept 15th Actually Sept 17th this year
Jan 15 2013

If a person does not want to spend hours breaking out income by quarters and having all the detailed backup they will pay a penalty or not giving the feds 25% on JUne 15th of 90 % of the total bill or 100% of last years liability. This applies even if the person is due a significant refund.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 12:17 PM
They are referring to the fact that when you pay quarterly tax estimates, the first quarter is due April 15. The second quarter is due June 15, two months later. The third quarter is due Sept. 15, three months later. They are conveniently forgetting they had three and a half months to pay the first quarter estimate. See, it all balances out in the end. They know they have to pay the taxes, just complain a little bit more than the rest of us.
Not really for the self employed. How can a person trully estimate what may or may not happen in future months?
How ddi anyone have 3 1/2 months to pay a bill based on the income that ends 3/ 31?
How about the people that were due a refund for 2011 but jsut told the federal slime to keep it, since they get no intest anyway and apply it to 2012?

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 12:19 PM
NO, I'm referring to the quarterly deposit dates:
April 15th actually 17th this year
June 15th
Sept 15th Actually Sept 17th this year
Jan 15 2013

If a person does not want to spend hours breaking out income by quarters and having all the detailed backup they will pay a penalty or not giving the feds 25% on JUne 15th of 90 % of the total bill or 100% of last years liability. This applies even if the person is due a significant refund.

I thought you said you knew something about tax law. The law simply says you pay 100% of last years liability, actually 110%, in quarter installments. I can figure mine out in 30 seconds. Writing of checks and mailing them takes another 5 to 10 minutes over the year.

ARay11
06-19-2012, 12:24 PM
As a stockholder (social security) and as an investor (taxpayer) I feel I am due a full report and account of the corporation (country)

Where is my prospectus? My budget?

If our legislators were paid according to the business of this country, they would stop wasting money and get a proper budget in order.

I am paid on commission. If my company posts a loss, I do not get paid and won't have a job for long. Consequently, I take action, post profit, and get paid. Just imagine if they were to do the same.

But will there ever be a politician so brave as to stand for something like this?

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 12:30 PM
I thought you said you knew something about tax law. The law simply says you pay 100% of last years liability, actually 110%, in quarter installments. I can figure mine out in 30 seconds. Writing of checks and mailing them takes another 5 to 10 minutes over the year.

Then you are guessing in the early quarters what may or may not happen in future quarters!
Let's just say a person is an idependent contractor say in IT.
How would that person have any idea whether or not they will have work in future quarters? Again it is not really quarterly installments.
The other thing an idependent contractor has to deal with comes down to timing issues.
Lets just say they are owed money and they do not get the check prior to 12/31/??
The check may or not be mailed but actually dated in a different year. The check may be sitting printed in a drawer but not mailed. The person doesn't have the money but it is included in a 1099 for that year.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 12:43 PM
Of course not. Disadvantaged are the people that lose their jobs or are in college that don't make enough money to live on. The people that are actually showing that they want to earn a good living but aren't right now for some reason. They have had a bump in the road, a temporary set back. I am not talking about the con artists you are referring to. What we should do with them is something that I will not say on a public forum, that just opens a big can of worms...and no, it isn't killing them.

Maybe rather than going to college for a bs degree full time they should get a job and go to school part time one class at a time and actually pay for it like both my husband and I did. Although we didn't run around majoring in crap .
Do you know that in NC some of our state colleges have SAT scores that are little more than what you get by signing your name and then the taxpayer has to foot the bill for this person to go to college?

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 12:53 PM
I think it is time for you to put down the firewater.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 12:55 PM
I thought you said you knew something about tax law. The law simply says you pay 100% of last years liability, actually 110%, in quarter installments. I can figure mine out in 30 seconds. Writing of checks and mailing them takes another 5 to 10 minutes over the year.

In otherwords in the early quarters you are guessing future income!! The feds want 25% per non quarter, quarters. What if you had zero income the last two quarters? You just gave the feds a ton of money they have zero right to in order to avoid a future unknown penalty!

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 12:57 PM
I think it is time for you to put down the firewater.


What firewater? What did I say that has you so annoyed? I have only stated tax law etc and the gooberments money grab!

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 01:02 PM
In otherwords in the early quarters you are guessing future income!! The feds want 25% per non quarter, quarters. What if you had zero income the last two quarters? You just gave the feds a ton of money they have zero right to in order to avoid a future unknown penalty!

That's why they call them quarterly tax ESTIMATES...

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 01:02 PM
I think it is time for you to put down the firewater.

Do you have an accounting degree? A CPA? Have you ever actually studied tax law?

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 01:05 PM
That's why they call them quarterly tax ESTIMATES...

And that is the problem. One must guess future income at times way over the amount due in order to avoid a possible penalty that has nothing to do with what is actually due at any given time.
Let me add why are they demanding money based on something that may or may not happen???
Why should a person give them money based on money that may or not be earned?

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 01:06 PM
Do you have an accounting degree? A CPA? Have you ever actually studied tax law?

Nope, but I know enough to not overstate and miss-state the way you are and to leave the details to my accountant. Are you?

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 01:09 PM
And that is the problem. One must guess future income at times way over the amount due in order to avoid a possible penalty that has nothing to do with what is actually due at any given time.

It's not a guess. It is very clear, pay us 110% of last years liability by the end of this year or suffer interest and penalties. You are hoping you make enough to cover the taxes.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 01:23 PM
It's not a guess. It is very clear, pay us 110% of last years liability by the end of this year or suffer interest and penalties. You are hoping you make enough to cover the taxes.

Why should anyone give the slimeballs anything more than they are due??? By the way it is not just before the end of the year.
Lets just say at the end of the year you know you owe the feds $50K. If you didn't pay them 25% each of their bs quarters they will charge you a penalty and interest, which may not be worth paying your accountant the hourly rate for proving the feds wrong.
Why should anyone over pay them to avoid a penalty?

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 01:26 PM
Nope, but I know enough to not overstate and miss-state the way you are and to leave the details to my accountant. Are you?
I know my CPA very well and my CPA knows the federal BS inside and out. I also know the backup CPA rather well.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 01:29 PM
Why should anyone give the slimeballs anything more than they are due??? By the way it is not just before the end of the year.
Lets just say at the end of the year you know you owe the feds $50K. If you didn't pay them 25% each of their bs quarters they will charge you a penalty and interest, which may not be worth paying your accountant the hourly rate for proving the feds wrong.
Why should anyone over pay them to avoid a penalty?

I think you need to check your facts. If you make your quarterlies on time, the $50k will not be penalized.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 01:31 PM
You might need to think about getting a new CPA!

It is really sad that it costs a person more to pay a CPA to avoid bs penalties from the feds than let the feds hold their money.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 01:38 PM
I think you need to check your facts. If you make your quarterlies on time, the $50k will not be penalized.

Wrong, lets just say that the real #'s mean that in the first Q you owe based on the 40K,
$5k
second Q 5 K
3rd Q250
4th Q 5 K
If you didn't give the slimeballs 10K per quarter they will nail you. It can cost more to pay your CPA to do the insane detailed accoun
ting than pay the penalty.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 01:56 PM
No, I guess I'm right:

If you did not pay enough tax throughout the year, either through withholding or by making estimated tax payments, you may have to pay a penalty for underpayment of estimated tax. Generally, most taxpayers will avoid this penalty if they owe less than $1,000 in tax after subtracting their withholdings and credits, or if they paid at least 90% of the tax for the current year, or 100% of the tax shown on the return for the prior year, whichever is smaller.

From the website: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=110413,00.html

Better get a new CPA.

ARay11
06-19-2012, 02:07 PM
can u two get a room (thread) of your own?:o

:razz::razz::razz:

just kiddin!!!!

i think everyone places faith in their CPA's.... mine is my father in law....whew!!! talk about a guy who's not wrong!! LOL!! Actually, we are very blessed... he always steers us in the direction of NOT getting into trouble....even if it means sending a little extra to the washingtonians.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 02:07 PM
No, I guess I'm right:

If you did not pay enough tax throughout the year, either through withholding or by making estimated tax payments, you may have to pay a penalty for underpayment of estimated tax. Generally, most taxpayers will avoid this penalty if they owe less than $1,000 in tax after subtracting their withholdings and credits, or if they paid at least 90% of the tax for the current year, or 100% of the tax shown on the return for the prior year, whichever is smaller.

From the website: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=110413,00.html

Better get a new CPA.

No lets assume a person is self employed and has to fork out money based on what may or may not happen later in the year? Do they need a new CPA??? Or should they just give the DUMS extra money???
Do you get the concept?
Why should someone give those fools money in advance o it being earned?
We are not talking about the total anount due but rather paying in advance for money earned later.
It is cheaper to pay a penalty to the feds rather than pay a CPA to do the detailed breakdown to aviod what may only add up to a $25 penalty.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 02:13 PM
can u two get a room (thread) of your own?:o

:razz::razz::razz:

just kiddin!!!!

i think everyone places faith in their CPA's.... mine is my father in law....whew!!! talk about a guy who's not wrong!! LOL!! Actually, we are very blessed... he always steers us in the direction of NOT getting into trouble....even if it means sending a little extra to the washingtonians.

I trust both of my CPA's even though one no longer practices! We always over pay the slimes to avoid trouble but that means the feds hold a lot of our money every year that ends up going to the next years bill.
Wonder if Lokie knows what I do for a living?

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 02:17 PM
No lets assume a person is self employed and has to fork out money based on what may or may not happen later in the year? Do they need a new CPA??? Or should they just give the DUMS extra money???
Do you get the concept?
Why should someone give those fools money in advance o it being earned?
We are not talking about the total anount due but rather paying in advance for money earned later.
It is cheaper to pay a penalty to the feds rather than pay a CPA to do the detailed breakdown to aviod what may only add up to a $25 penalty.

Oh, I got the concept. Just correcting you once again.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 02:18 PM
I trust both of my CPA's even though one no longer practices! We always over pay the slimes to avoid trouble but that means the feds hold a lot of our money every year that ends up going to the next years bill.
Wonder if Lokie knows what I do for a living?

That's LokiMeister to you.

And what, pray tell, do you do?

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 02:22 PM
he always steers us in the direction of NOT getting into trouble....even if it means sending a little extra to the washingtonians.
Avoiding those fools is always a good thing but when you send them thousands extra to avoid it and they hold your money while they mess with your return ya gotta wonder why they get to play with your money!
Then of course the head of the treasury who the IRS reports to is a tax cheat and can't do his own taxes!!!

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 02:25 PM
That's LokiMeister to you.

And what, pray tell, do you do?

I've told you I know this stuff inside out and backwards. To bad turbo Tim does't know crap!

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 02:27 PM
Oh, I got the concept. Just correcting you once again.

What do you really do? At one point you claimed to be a teacher in Wisconson but now you are not?

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 02:31 PM
What do you really do? At one point you claimed to be a teacher in Wisconson but now you are not?

I'm in manufacturing.

I may have said that I taught Alpine skiing for many years as a way to ski, ie. I taught on the weekends, but never implied that I was a teacher in education.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 02:41 PM
I'm in manufacturing.

I may have said that I taught Alpine skiing for many years as a way to ski, ie. I taught on the weekends, but never implied that I was a teacher in education.

Do you want me to go back and search for your claims of being a teacher in WI? I have time on my hands as quarterlies are done and dogs trained early this mornig as it is now way to hot at 90 plus degrees.

hotel4dogs
06-19-2012, 03:13 PM
ok, I'll go first....
54 years old
own a large, upscale pet hotel, been in business 12+ years
BS in industrial management, minor in accounting, Purdue University, West Lafayette
MA in mathematics education, St. Xavier University

Ok Lokiemeister, your turn....
If you do not think paying the government the huge amount of taxes I (many of us) have to pay is wrong, I'm guessing you are
(a) 30 or under
(b) own a VERY small business or one that's not very successful
(c) haven't been in business very long
(d) all of the above

prove me wrong.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 03:17 PM
Do you want me to go back and search for your claims of being a teacher in WI? I have time on my hands as quarterlies are done and dogs trained early this mornig as it is now way to hot at 90 plus degrees.

Yeah, sure. Tell/show me what you find. You won't find that I taught in the school system.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 03:21 PM
Yeah, sure. Tell/show me what you find. You won't find that I taught in the school system.

Then why did you claim to be a teacher in WI???

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 03:21 PM
ok, I'll go first....
54 years old
own a large, upscale pet hotel, been in business 12+ years
BS in industrial management, minor in accounting, Purdue University, West Lafayette
MA in mathematics education, St. Xavier University

Ok Lokiemeister, your turn....
If you do not think paying the government the huge amount of taxes I (many of us) have to pay is wrong, I'm guessing you are
(a) 30 or under
(b) own a VERY small business or one that's not very successful
(c) haven't been in business very long
(d) all of the above

prove me wrong.

Putting words in my mouth again?? I am just saying how the taxes are to be paid. Paying of the taxes is a necessary evil, the amount is the question. I pay more in taxes than the median taxpayer makes in gross. I am not sure if that is fair, but I do know that the government is spending a lot more (of my) money than I want them to.

To answer your question, none of the above.

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 03:22 PM
Then why did you claim to be a teacher in WI???

When did I say that?

ARay11
06-19-2012, 03:22 PM
Avoiding those fools is always a good thing but when you send them thousands extra to avoid it and they hold your money while they mess with your return ya gotta wonder why they get to play with your money!
Then of course the head of the treasury who the IRS reports to is a tax cheat and can't do his own taxes!!!

Sadly, they get to play with my toys because it's their yard. And they can take ALL my toys if they get mad enough.

Personally, I think as an investor (tax payer) and stockholder (social security), I should be receiving dividends from THEM.... or at least have the option to no longer contribute and sell my shares (even if at a loss)

When the business of this country begins to be handled as a business, I won't complain about my investment.

hotel4dogs
06-19-2012, 03:30 PM
I apologize to the OP for hijacking the thread and morphing it into something else entirely. It's why I usually stay out of this section of the forum, I tend to get my hackles up when discussing (my) taxes.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 03:37 PM
I apologize to the OP for hijacking the thread and morphing it into something else entirely. It's why I usually stay out of this section of the forum, I tend to get my hackles up when discussing (my) taxes.

Doesn't everyone who is in the 50% that actually pays federal income taxes
On a side note if I ever decided to cross over to the fuffy side it would have to be for a Tlto pup!

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 03:41 PM
Sadly, they get to play with my toys because it's their yard. And they can take ALL my toys if they get mad enough.

Personally, I think as an investor (tax payer) and stockholder (social security), I should be receiving dividends from THEM.... or at least have the option to no longer contribute and sell my shares (even if at a loss)

When the business of this country begins to be handled as a business, I won't complain about my investment.

I'd be a lot better off if I was in control of the money the gooberment stole from me for SS!
I still want to know why someone has a kid that paid nothing in gets SSDI for the kid! Talk about getting screwed, just think about OCTMOM getting SSDI checks!

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 03:41 PM
When did I say that?

When you were ranting against Walker!

hotel4dogs
06-19-2012, 03:43 PM
Thanks! Then you'd have to be luvmylabsandfuzzybutt


On a side note if I ever decided to cross over to the fuffy side it would have to be for a Tlto pup!

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 03:47 PM
When you were ranting against Walker!

You're going to have to show me that rant. Never said I was a school teacher. I have friends and in-laws that are school teachers, but I am not a teacher. Maybe you are misremembering the "rant?"

For what it's worth, I don't like Walker and like the Dems even less.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 03:57 PM
You're going to have to show me that rant. Never said I was a school teacher. I have friends and in-laws that are school teachers, but I am not a teacher. Maybe you are misremembering the "rant?"

For what it's worth, I don't like Walker and like the Dems even less.

You would rather give into the unions who steal your tax money???

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 04:09 PM
You would rather give into the unions who steal your tax money???

There you go again putting words in peoples mouths. You really need to stop that.

When are you going to tell me where/when I said I was a school teacher? You said you had all sorts of time.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 04:22 PM
There you go again putting words in peoples mouths. You really need to stop that.

When are you going to tell me where/when I said I was a school teacher? You said you had all sorts of time.
Gee, I asked why you don't like Walker! Back in the early days of the WI recall you claimed to be a teacher.
I can search later on but the temps are starting to fall, 3 more degrees to go and back to training!
Again you avoided the question!

LokiMeister
06-19-2012, 04:28 PM
When you tell me when I claimed to be a school teacher.

luvmylabs23139
06-19-2012, 05:07 PM
When you tell me when I claimed to be a school teacher.

I will search later tonight, One more degree temp drop or training. When are you going to answer questions rather doing a BUMFACE and deflecting the questions?
You still haven't said why you dislike Walker protecting your hard earned money from the Unions!

LokiMeister
06-20-2012, 08:17 AM
You don't read very well, "When you tell me when I claimed to be a school teacher."

Marvin S
06-20-2012, 09:57 PM
The best flat tax plan advocated was by Steve Forbes when he ran for POTUS in 2000. 17% with liberal deductions, offhand don't remember what they were. IMO 17% is to high as it would continue government at it's present pace which I believe is more government than is needed. Again IMO, any tax other than a flat tax is not worth the fight.