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road kill
08-11-2012, 06:15 AM
It is being reported that Mitt Romney has chosen Paul Ryan from WI as his VP choice!

Batten down the hatches folks.
Ryan scares the hell out of Obama and Biden.
You are gonna like this guy.....a lot.

Well, the secular progressives are NOT gonna like him.......A LOT!!!!:D


Wait till you hear this guys plan on the budget, economy etc.

You will be able to guage his fear factor by how viciously the progressive start attcking him on a personal level....TODAY!!!


I mean they have to, Obama can't run on his record, so the secular progressives have to make up lies about the next President and Vice President.






Boston, MA – Mitt Romney today announced Wisconsin Representative Paul Ryan as his Vice Presidential running mate. Below is Congressman Ryan’s biography:U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan is in his seventh term in Congress representing Wisconsin’s First Congressional District. He is Chairman of the House Budget Committee, where he has worked tirelessly leading the effort to reign in federal spending and increase accountability to taxpayers. He also serves on the House Ways and Means Committee, where he has focused on simplifying the tax code and making health care more affordable and accessible.In January 2010, Ryan gained attention nationwide after unveiling his “Roadmap for America’s Future,” a proposal to eliminate the federal deficit, reform the tax code, and preserve entitlements for future generations.Representative Ryan was born in Janesville, Wisconsin on January 29, 1970. A fifth-generation Wisconsin native, Ryan was the youngest of four children born to Paul Ryan Sr., who worked as an attorney, and Betty, a stay-at-home mom.In April 2000, Ryan proposed to Janna Little, a native Oklahoman, at one of his favorite fishing spots, Big St. Germain Lake in Wisconsin. Later that year, the two were married in Oklahoma City.The Ryans reside in Janesville with their three children, Liza, Charlie and Sam. The family are parishioners at St. John Vianney Catholic Church.Upon entering Congress in January of 1999, Ryan was the youngest member of the freshmen class at the age of 28. Prior to running for Congress, Ryan served as an aide to Republican Senators Robert Kasten Jr. and Sam Brownback, former U.S. Rep. and Vice Presidential Candidate Jack Kemp, and as a speechwriter for Education Secretary William Bennett.Ryan is a graduate of Joseph A. Craig High School in Janesville and earned degrees in economics and political science from Miami University in Ohio. He is an avid outdoorsman and is a member is of his local archery association, the Janesville Bowmen.

Ken Bora
08-11-2012, 06:31 AM
the VP debate will be good.
now it's gonna get fun.
They sould get Carville (i know, no way... maybe?)
to do his "Its the economy stupid" line for an add.

Jason Myers
08-11-2012, 08:46 AM
Not familiar with him, but I'm sure liking how he's talking so far.

HPL
08-11-2012, 08:48 AM
I'm not really familiar with Ryan. What does he bring that will attract some of the folks that voted for Obama last time? How does he help get Romney in and Obama out?

gmhr1
08-11-2012, 09:01 AM
If I were Biden I would run and hide

ARay11
08-11-2012, 09:09 AM
I did not expect Romney to choose Ryan., This will be a good next few months...

Gerry Clinchy
08-11-2012, 09:31 AM
OMG! Can you imagine Ryan debating Biden on fiscal policy? The stand-up comics will have material for years to come :-)

I would say that Ryan would appeal to Rs who think and to independents who do likewise. I would expect that the Obama campaign would hammer on the Medicare plan.

Ryan will get the chance now to give voice to why it has to be done. I'm on Medicare, but that doesn't mean that I can't see why it needs to be fixed for the next generation to enter the program. No present beneficiaries will be affected ... and fixing it now will assure that others will benefit from a program that is sustainable. Seniors who vote are not as stupid as some politicos think (there are some on this forum who could validate that statement).

Can hardly wait to see what kind of "dirty" ads they come up with for Ryan. His calm demeanor and articulateness should be able to handle it. I'm sure the O campaign has been "digging" on all the potential VP candidates.

I think Ryan will get good support from the fiscal conservatives in the party, who might have found Romney too liberal? Being RC, the religious right should find him acceptable. He likes to hunt ...

There are some Dems in the House who have supported R bills ... if Ryan has the respect of his colleagues, that could be a force for good in Congress. We already know that there are Ds who are not fond of Obama's agenda and his modus operandi.

When I look at some of the young Rs, like Ryan, Rubio, Jindal, Rand Paul, there may be reason to hope that these younger guys can have a positive impact on the country's future. I think that people like Rubio, Jindal, Paul, and others like them will give a lot of support to this kind of ticket.

Maybe the complaints of the Ds that Romney hasn't disclosed a detailed fiscal plan is because he is going to back Ryan's plan? Don't know if it will get Romney votes, but choosing Ryan (who probably knows more about the govt fiscal matters than just about anyone) was an intelligent choice. Ryan would be a solid advisor to Romney on fiscal matters.

I think the choice of Ryan is in line with Romney's persona as a businessman. That can be good and bad from a vote-getting standpoint.

HPL
08-11-2012, 09:38 AM
In the little reading I have been able to do since the announcement this morning, he appears to me to bring nothing to attract any of the folks who voted for Obama in the last election, and indeed greatly adds to the Dems ability to claim that the Republicans are callous, don't care about the poor, and intend to cast them loose. His position on medicare is going to scare a lot of folks and his tax policy is very easy to interpret as favoring "the rich." He is a practicing Catholic and yet even the conference of catholic bishops is castigating him: "The 2012 Ryan budget also received criticism from elements of the Catholic Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church), specifically from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Conference_of_Catholic_Bishops) and from faculty and administrators of Georgetown University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University). In its letter to Rep. Ryan, the group of Georgetown faculty and administrators criticized the Ryan budget as trying to "to dismantle government programs and abandon the poor to their own devices," going on to say that Catholic teaching "demands that higher levels of government provide help—"subsidium"—when communities and local governments face problems beyond their means to address such as economic crises, high unemployment, endemic poverty and hunger." I fear this is just another case of the Republicans only listening to the base and that will just ensure another four years of Obama, and possibly even help the dems regain control of the house.

Ya'll think that he will be a great debater, but most of the folks that the Republicans have to attract don't have the attention span to really watch the debates. They will instead see a white bread conservative intellectual who neither understands nor cares about the problems of the average guy (which is how he will be portrayed in the little sound-bites that most people will actually see.)

gmhr1
08-11-2012, 09:55 AM
Paul Ryan said his medicare plan will not affect anyone over 55 ...Hopefully we will learn the facts of his plan and not what the dems say. One thing Ryan isn't afraid of Obama, and he will tear Biden apart in the debate.

BonMallari
08-11-2012, 09:56 AM
for the naysayers who say it brings nothing to the table ...who do you think would have.......Ryan was the smart choice, second guess it all you want but guys like Ryan are the future of the party and the nation..compared to the ticket we had in 08 this VP is qualified to take the top spot...He brings a lot to the ticket

Think of it this way...if Mitt was the CEO he has a legit CFO in Ryan....

Gerry Clinchy
08-11-2012, 10:00 AM
going on to say that Catholic teaching "demands that higher levels of government provide help—"subsidium"—when communities and local governments face problems beyond their means to address such as economic crises, high unemployment, endemic poverty and hunger."

I never saw anything like this in my catechism.

MrBrian
08-11-2012, 10:03 AM
Not sure why he's given so much praise or why he's being viewed as a "conservative"? He's the typical big-government Republican that many claim to despise e.g. Ryan voted for TARP, voted yeah for most of Obama's stimulus, voted for Bush's Medicare Part D expansion, No Child Left Behind act, etc? He voted with Bush 94% of the time...he's nothing new or refreshing within the Republican party. Just a "new face" with a record of doing everything in the past that's got us where we are today. He's everything voters should of expected from a Romney VP pick!

Sundown49 aka Otey B
08-11-2012, 10:05 AM
Most straight forward speech I have heard from ANY politician in YEARS. Romney/Ryan 2012!!! WILL get this country back to the one I recognize.

Gerry Clinchy
08-11-2012, 10:08 AM
Just watched an old clip (May 2012) of an interview with Ryan. They reprised the D ad of someone (who looked like Ryan) hurling an old woman out of her wheelchair over a clifff. So, one would have to say that Ryan is prepared for his vilification by the Ds.

Have to say, that the interview showed him as capable, informed and articulate.

While I don't like the idea that he has been so long associated with the DC culture, he has also held jobs in his life and his family has a small business. Maybe this can counterbalance the DC influences?

Wonder when they will really come down on Congress (the Senate, in particular) for not passing a budget in four years? Ask the man on the street, R or D, how they could operate their own lives on that kind of accounting.

ARay11
08-11-2012, 10:12 AM
Just watched an old clip (May 2012) of an interview with Ryan. They reprised the D ad of someone (who looked like Ryan) hurling an old woman out of her wheelchair over a clifff. So, one would have to say that Ryan is prepared for his vilification by the Ds.

Have to say, that the interview showed him as capable, informed and articulate.

While I don't like the idea that he has been so long associated with the DC culture, he has also held jobs in his life and his family has a small business. Maybe this can counterbalance the DC influences?

Wonder when they will really come down on Congress (the Senate, in particular) for not passing a budget in four years? Ask the man on the street, R or D, how they could operate their own lives on that kind of accounting.

The Dems voters that they will mobilize on election day do not care about budgets. They never had one, never will. When you get everything for free, there's no need for a budget. They will bus them to the polls by the thousands. I am not sure R&R will overcome that kind of mobilization.

Franco
08-11-2012, 01:21 PM
Wise choice, it had to be Ryan or Portman as both help in a key swing state. Now, lets see how big a knife he weilds.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/386905_472625776095945_1808565286_n.jpg

Gerry Clinchy
08-11-2012, 01:26 PM
The Dem reaction? They are gleeful ... believing that Ryan's budgetary positions on Medicare and entitlements will kill off Romney.

Ryan debating Biden will still be interesting. Even if Obama changed to Hillary, I think Ryan could hold his own against her.

huntinman
08-11-2012, 01:42 PM
In the little reading I have been able to do since the announcement this morning, he appears to me to bring nothing to attract any of the folks who voted for Obama in the last election, and indeed greatly adds to the Dems ability to claim that the Republicans are callous, don't care about the poor, and intend to cast them loose. His position on medicare is going to scare a lot of folks and his tax policy is very easy to interpret as favoring "the rich." He is a practicing Catholic and yet even the conference of catholic bishops is castigating him: "The 2012 Ryan budget also received criticism from elements of the Catholic Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church), specifically from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Conference_of_Catholic_Bishops) and from faculty and administrators of Georgetown University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University). In its letter to Rep. Ryan, the group of Georgetown faculty and administrators criticized the Ryan budget as trying to "to dismantle government programs and abandon the poor to their own devices," going on to say that Catholic teaching "demands that higher levels of government provide help—"subsidium"—when communities and local governments face problems beyond their means to address such as economic crises, high unemployment, endemic poverty and hunger." I fear this is just another case of the Republicans only listening to the base and that will just ensure another four years of Obama, and possibly even help the dems regain control of the house.

Ya'll think that he will be a great debater, but most of the folks that the Republicans have to attract don't have the attention span to really watch the debates. They will instead see a white bread conservative intellectual who neither understands nor cares about the problems of the average guy (which is how he will be portrayed in the little sound-bites that most people will actually see.)

Who did you want? Larry the Cable Guy?

ARay11
08-11-2012, 01:43 PM
The Dem reaction? They are gleeful ... believing that Ryan's budgetary positions on Medicare and entitlements will kill off Romney.

Ryan debating Biden will still be interesting. Even if Obama changed to Hillary, I think Ryan could hold his own against her.

Has any incumbent ever switched VP's? curious to that thought... as ineffective as biden is.... of course, i'm sure he also never quarrels with prince obama

here's my own answer...lol

Some multi-term presidents were forced to have a new running mate due to the death or resignation of the Vice President:


James Madison ran with Elbridge Gerry in 1812 after the death of V. P. Clinton.
Andrew Jackson ran with Martin Van Buren in 1832 after the resignation of V.P. Calhoun.
After the death of V.P. Hendricks, Grover Cleveland ran with Allen Thurman in 1888 and won with Adlai Stevenson in 1892.
William McKinley ran with Theodore Roosevelt in 1900 after the death of V.P. Hobart.


(Other Presidents ran with a new running mate after the death of their Vice President, but it can't be said that they changed Vice Presidents because they lost their elections, so the new people never became Vice President.)


Now aside from cases involving death there were five times when the incumbent President was reelected with a new Vice President:



Thomas Jefferson was elected with Aaron Burr and reelected with George Clinton.
Abraham Lincoln was elected with Hannibal Hamlin and reelected with Andrew Johnson.
Ulysses S. Grant was elected with Schuyler Colfax and reelected with Henry Wilson.
Franklin Roosevelt switched twice, from John Nance Garner to Henry Wallace then to Harry Truman.

HPL
08-11-2012, 02:36 PM
Who did you want? Larry the Cable Guy?

Hardly, Larry might appeal to the Repub base, but I doubt that he would be of much help with the communities we need. I heard a couple of days ago that 1/3 of the population is now either on straight out welfare or on some other kind of gov. assistance (not including social security or medicare as those are earned). I think the republicans can pretty much write those folks off outright. We need to attract some of the folks from the "minority" communities. I think the we can still mostly forget about attracting many blacks (too much racial pride involved and I can't really blame them) but you can't tell me that there was no one out there with a last name like Garza, Ramirez, Silva, Alaniz, or something similar that could have been chosen. Find someone who can present their speeches in fluent Spanish. Don't really care if they are currently well known, and a relative unknown might actually have been a plus. Someone who grew up hard scrabble and can convincingly portray him or herself as regular folks (I know, who really wants Joe average for president?). There are certainly smart, conservative, successful, hispanic businessmen and even legislators out there. I know that it seems shallow and manipulative to use that kind of strategy, but before we can put our ideas into action, we have to be in office. Perhaps Ryan will show something that will help bring the centrists into the fold, but he just looks like more of the same to me.

Foregoing the ethnic strategy, I have always liked Bobby Jindal, and although I don't think she was interested, I like Rice. Jindal seems to be fiscally responsible, not white, well spoken (once you get around that accent)and very bright. Rice is demonstrably brilliant, talented, a woman, and black.

huntinman
08-11-2012, 03:42 PM
Hardly, Larry might appeal to the Repub base, but I doubt that he would be of much help with the communities we need. I heard a couple of days ago that 1/3 of the population is now either on straight out welfare or on some other kind of gov. assistance (not including social security or medicare as those are earned). I think the republicans can pretty much write those folks off outright. We need to attract some of the folks from the "minority" communities. I think the we can still mostly forget about attracting many blacks (too much racial pride involved and I can't really blame them) but you can't tell me that there was no one out there with a last name like Garza, Ramirez, Silva, Alaniz, or something similar that could have been chosen. Find someone who can present their speeches in fluent Spanish. Don't really care if they are currently well known, and a relative unknown might actually have been a plus. Someone who grew up hard scrabble and can convincingly portray him or herself as regular folks (I know, who really wants Joe average for president?). There are certainly smart, conservative, successful, hispanic businessmen and even legislators out there. I know that it seems shallow and manipulative to use that kind of strategy, but before we can put our ideas into action, we have to be in office. Perhaps Ryan will show something that will help bring the centrists into the fold, but he just looks like more of the same to me.

Foregoing the ethnic strategy, I have always liked Bobby Jindal, and although I don't think she was interested, I like Rice. Jindal seems to be fiscally responsible, not white, well spoken (once you get around that accent)and very bright. Rice is demonstrably brilliant, talented, a woman, and black.



I see your points...but...

It's time to stop apologizing for being a predominately white, christian, conservative leaning nation. All that wishy washy hand wringing is what got us Obama. (re: McCain)

BonMallari
08-11-2012, 04:10 PM
I like that Romney did

1. not play the race card

2. not play the gender card

3. not play the Ohio or Florida card

4. not play the media favorite card

instead he picked someone who will be good for the country, which after all is THE MOST IMPORTANT

HPL
08-11-2012, 04:30 PM
I like that Romney did

1. not play the race card

2. not play the gender card

3. not play the Ohio or Florida card

4. not play the media favorite card

instead he picked someone who will be good for the country, which after all is THE MOST IMPORTANT

I would like to agree, but what is MOST IMPORTANT at the moment is to take back the Whitehouse and let's face it, he already had your and my votes, he needs to gather up a bunch of folks who either voted Democrat last time or didn't vote at all. Again, how does Ryan help with that?

gmhr1
08-11-2012, 04:54 PM
I hope Ryan can get his message out that if we stay under Obama in 15 years Medicare will not be here they are going and will be broke. Paul Ryan has a plan Obama doesn't have a clue.

road kill
08-11-2012, 04:59 PM
You either stand for something or you don't!!!

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/08/12759-video-watch-paul-ryan-destroy-obama-and-obamacare-in-6-minutes/

PamK
08-11-2012, 06:02 PM
I would like to agree, but what is MOST IMPORTANT at the moment is to take back the Whitehouse and let's face it, he already had your and my votes, he needs to gather up a bunch of folks who either voted Democrat last time or didn't vote at all. Again, how does Ryan help with that?

he doesn't

MrBrian
08-11-2012, 06:34 PM
Politics as usual...we have a choice between a big government, over spending Democrat or we can go the opposite direction and pick a big government, over spending Republican ticket. Those claiming Paul Ryan is a conservative or dislikes wasteful spending, or deficit, etc have never looked at his voting record! It's simple in politics...if Republicans are whining about the over spending, fast government growth, etc it's a clear sign they're not the "party in power" and vice-versus for the Democrats. Both parties are one in the same the only question to ask yourself is; when the country goes of the cliff-want it to be on the left or right side?

hawker
08-11-2012, 09:18 PM
God has blessed America with a great soul in Paul Ryan.

gmhr1
08-11-2012, 10:39 PM
This is an easy vote for us seniors if your over 55 you don' t even have to think about it we are fine. Obamas plan bankrupt SS and medicare in 15 years the money is gone, or Ryans plan to keep it and make sure its available for us, our kids and grandkids. 4 more years of the same or hope and change seems like we just heard this.....

Buzz
08-11-2012, 10:49 PM
I never saw anything like this in my catechism.


You should check again. You disagree with my opinion that the teachings of Rand are unchristian, so I'm not surprised by this.

coachmo
08-11-2012, 11:00 PM
Wow, buzz a scholar of Catholicism as well! Who'd thunk it?

Buzz
08-11-2012, 11:13 PM
Wow, buzz a scholar of Catholicism as well! Who'd thunk it?


Obviously the actual Catholic Scholars are wrong too. At least that's what I'm reading here. I realize you all know much more about the topic than they do.

Randism = Satanism in my opinion.

coachmo
08-11-2012, 11:17 PM
Why don't you expand on your previous comment about the teachings of Rand are unchristian? I'd really like to hear what you are referring too.

gmhr1
08-12-2012, 08:41 AM
Its the first day we can wake up and have a ray of sunshine. We have the choice to live free or live under a dictator.

Gerry Clinchy
08-12-2012, 09:00 AM
You should check again. You disagree with my opinion that the teachings of Rand are unchristian, so I'm not surprised by this.
I believe that Jesus told us to love our neighbor and be charitable. I don't believe that he told us the govt should do that in our stead.

Now, that was a statement by a Georgetown scholar about the teachings of the "Church"; presumably the RC church. If you (or he) would cite chapter and verse, it might make for interesting discussion.

ErinsEdge
08-12-2012, 09:03 AM
I like that Romney did

1. not play the race card

2. not play the gender card

3. not play the Ohio or Florida card

4. not play the media favorite card

instead he picked someone who will be good for the country, which after all is THE MOST IMPORTANT

You can see how scared the Dems are by the quick appearance of the blogs signaling the end of the world as we know it for the middle class. Horray he didn't pick someone to balance the ticket but someone that understands economics because Obama's economics are share the wealth which appeals to everyone on the dole. Obamas economics are about his socialistic ideology, and the sooner people figure out he doesn't care about them and getting jobs, but about his ideology, maybe enough will see the light that America needs to get on a new track to expand the job market so investors will invest and small and large businesses will hire.

Franco
08-12-2012, 09:42 AM
Is Paul Ryan a reformed sinner? He did vote to raise the Debt Ceiling seven times under Bush. One can only hope that he has come to terms with past voting and would work towards eliminating the debt and an annual balanced budget!

HPL
08-12-2012, 09:49 AM
You can see how scared the Dems are by the quick appearance of the blogs signaling the end of the world as we know it for the middle class. Horray he didn't pick someone to balance the ticket but someone that understands economics because Obama's economics are share the wealth which appeals to everyone on the dole. Obamas economics are about his socialistic ideology, and the sooner people figure out he doesn't care about them and getting jobs, but about his ideology, maybe enough will see the light that America needs to get on a new track to expand the job market so investors will invest and small and large businesses will hire.

Can't accomplish anything unless you get elected first and with 1/3 of the electorate on some form of assistance, that's a pretty big hill to overcome. I like most of what I hear Ryan say, (although not all of his recent voting record) but just because I like him doesn't mean he brings anything useful to the cause. My ticket of choice in a perfect world would probably have been Newt/Rice as they really seem to be the smartest folks around, but that would have been a loser ticket from the word go, so am willing to comprise and look at someone that could actually get elected, just don't se how Ryan helps with that.

gmhr1
08-12-2012, 09:53 AM
If Obama can go from NOT supporting gay marriage to it being his platform anythings possible. If Obama can evolve others can as well.

Ryan brings a plan to dig us out what does Obama bring Obamacare, more debt more taxes Obama has NOTHING to offer just the past 4 years All you have to do is look at Obamas record it speaks for itself. Ryan brings hope something obama promised but could not deliver.
Maybe now Obama will have to speak instead of hiding behind dirty ads

Today in a speech in NC Ryan stated that unemployment there is 9.4 % I didnt know that all I hear is Obama saying private sector is doing fine.... we may all be shocked when the truth finally starts coming out.

HPL
08-12-2012, 11:22 AM
Haven't seen any polls recently of folks who voted for Obama last time. My guess is that most blacks will still vote for him as will all the Democrat base (including many in the jewish community and the "intellectual elite") and the "yella dog democrats" and much of the gay population and much of the hispanic population, and nearly every person on welfare and many who are on disability or medicare. You are hoping to win an election by appealing to the people who can understand the more complex issues and who will agree with the Republican's position on how to get us out of our current problems (and not everyone with the intellectual capability agrees with the Republicans' position). Well since, by definition, approximately half of the population is at or below average intelligence, and the aforementioned proposed solutions tend to be justified with some relatively involved math (which is for most folks the scariest subject), I think it is hoping for quite a bit to expect an economist to be able to sway a large enough proportion of the folks who need to be swayed. Ryan does, however make a very good "sound-bite target". I could write the ads in my sleep.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a very smart guy, he is very articulate, and I tend to agree with much of what he says, but I test on the right side of the bell curve, and can actually read. I have little confidence in the abilities of those folks who fall farther to the left.

gmhr1
08-12-2012, 11:30 AM
Romney/Ryan have eveything going for them thats positive for this country but people dont want to work, they want a handout and they love free stuff ( people will stand /sleep in line for 3 days to get a free xbox) all Obama can offer is free stuff to get people to vote for him. Deep in my heart I think Obama will win because the blacks, hispanics, poor, gays, women (who want their free birth control mammograms etc ) will turn out by the thousands he is everything they want . They are all the groups he has been pandering to. Middle class Americans, small business's dont stand a chance. You can bet the next big thing Obama goes after is guns...

Uncle Bill
08-12-2012, 11:51 AM
You can see how scared the Dems are by the quick appearance of the blogs signaling the end of the world as we know it for the middle class. Horray he didn't pick someone to balance the ticket but someone that understands economics because Obama's economics are share the wealth which appeals to everyone on the dole. Obamas economics are about his socialistic ideology, and the sooner people figure out he doesn't care about them and getting jobs, but about his ideology, maybe enough will see the light that America needs to get on a new track to expand the job market so investors will invest and small and large businesses will hire.


This is the primary gist of the upcoming election...ARE THERE ENOUGH REAL AMERICANS AVAILABLE TO OFFSET THE SOMETHING-FOR-NOTHING CROWD...THE WHITE APOLOGISTS...THE HAND-ME-DOWN DEMOCRATS...THE IGNORANTS THAT ARE PURELY INTO CLASS ENVY AND WILL CHOP OFF THEIR OWN NOSE TO SPITE THEIR FACE.

Time will tell if those of us in the Tea Party pursuasion...the grass roots of America...can overcome the "ice cream" promises of the left. The ignorance of the easily swayed..."the fools of this nation"...are what true Americans have to be the most concerned about. And what's undeniable is if we aren't successful in 2012, America will never again be the country designed by the founders. It will be overrun by the SFN crowd, much like Greece, and government will become a form of Marxist socialism.

People, this is not rocket science to recognize what another 4 years of an Obama regime will bring to this country. For openers, forget about his SCOTUS appointments, his ruinous taxation for Obamacare, his continuing thuggery at running roughshod over the Constitution....his primary focus will be the dismantling of the 2nd amendment. And, oh bye the way, you can kiss any form of capitalism goodby.

So you can see the task for most of us is not only scary, but gigantic. This 2012 election is far more than JUST one ideology vs another, it's whether or not you are ready to hand down to your progeny a piece of America that you grew up in, or a nation under a form of European socialism, subjected to diminishing freedoms on a daily scale.


If you don't find this as being the most defining moment in your history, requiring you to get off your duff and find enough voters to overcome the Democrat onslaught of "ice cream promises", then you will be no better than the Sambos and Buzzs on this message board. There's no such thing as "NOT VOTING"! That attitude is what Obama's main 'hope' is.

UB

menmon
08-12-2012, 12:25 PM
Yahooooooooooooooooooo! Ryan will make a wonderful running mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However this sounds like 2008 all over again. You like the VP more than the Pres! Tell me how well that worked for you?

gmhr1
08-12-2012, 01:03 PM
Can you imagine what it would be like to have a Vice President with a brain. One that could actually contribute something They are a team something we haven't seen in a long time.

menmon
08-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Talks the party talk....past that, I don't think he has an original thought.

gmhr1
08-12-2012, 02:11 PM
He's been the house budget commitee chairman for 7 terms I think he's smart, maybe not as smart as biden;)

A team
08-12-2012, 02:36 PM
Wise choice, it had to be Ryan or Portman as both help in a key swing state. Now, lets see how big a knife he weilds.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/386905_472625776095945_1808565286_n.jpg

Have to be careful posing with dead animals, it cost Dan Richards the CA DFG president his job;-)

menmon
08-12-2012, 02:54 PM
If he wasn't a politician and was really smart...he would work for a budget everyone could agree on, but instead he pushes budgets that he knows want pass but his base loves him, so he gets reelected. That is his mission. If you have had the experience I have, I find accounting types do not drive business. Business is more than managing cost. Smart businessmen spend when it makes sense and don't choke their business when things are tough, and know how to negotiate compromise.

road kill
08-12-2012, 03:08 PM
If he wasn't a politician and was really smart...he would work for a budget everyone could agree on, but instead he pushes budgets that he knows want pass but his base loves him, so he gets reelected. That is his mission. If you have had the experience I have, I find accounting types do not drive business. Business is more than managing cost. Smart businessmen spend when it makes sense and don't choke their business when things are tough, and know how to negotiate compromise.

Like the budget your guy has proposed and passed??

Oh........wait...ummm........nevermind!

BonMallari
08-12-2012, 03:12 PM
If he wasn't a politician and was really smart...he would work for a budget everyone could agree on, but instead he pushes budgets that he knows want pass but his base loves him, so he gets reelected. That is his mission. If you have had the experience I have, I find accounting types do not drive business. Business is more than managing cost. Smart businessmen spend when it makes sense and don't choke their business when things are tough, and know how to negotiate compromise.


might want to do some research before labeling him as an accounting type


After Kasten was defeated by Democrat Russ Feingold in 1992, Ryan became a speechwriter for Empower America, a conservative advocacy group founded by Jeane Kirkpatrick and William Bennett. Ryan later worked as a speechwriter for Jack Kemp, the Republican vice presidential candidate in the 1996 United States presidential election, and later worked for US Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas. In 1997 Ryan returned to Wisconsin and worked for his family's business, the Ryan Incorporated Central construction company, as a marketing consultant for a year. In 1998, he ran for Congress.

At an Atlas Society meeting celebrating Ayn Rand's life in 2005, Ryan said that "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand", and "I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff. In response to criticism from Catholic leaders over his budget and Medicare proposals, in 2012 Ryan distanced himself from Rand's Objectivist philosophy.

Shadowhill
08-12-2012, 03:54 PM
Ryan will slam Biden in the VP debate! Can't wait to watch that one!!!

Gerry Clinchy
08-12-2012, 03:58 PM
SS & Medicare, EVERYone admits (Ds, Rs, EVERYbody) are not sustainable. Ryan proposes a plan for something that will be sustainable ... maybe not run by the govt (a bad thing?), but preserving something for seniors. How is that less good than something that will simply go bust with no plan of any kind remaining?

As to his votes earlier in his career ... it IS possible that as he became more informed he became convinced that action had to be taken. He addressed that in one of the YouTube videos ... he did what is rare among politicians, he admitted to it.

There are two videos of Ryan testifying WRT Obamacare (prior to passing) with Obama present. Clearly, it appeared, that Ryan was a whole lot more familiar with the facts/numbers than Obama is/was.

However, I do agree that it may be hard for many to understand the need for the changes that Ryan recommends. That is the point the campaign will have to reduce to simple terms for their ads. The D ads gloss completely over the fact that no present recipients of SS & Medicare will be affected. Moreover, those current recipients WILL be impacted with the $ that was removed from Medicare via the funding for Obamacare.

The key will be how to make these points with punchlines that make good ad copy.

menmon
08-12-2012, 03:58 PM
I don't think I would put Jake Kemp on my resume. Still he is not effective. No compromise and voting the party line is not an effective leader. Show me you are a leader and get something done. Anyone can do what he does....talk and do nothing

menmon
08-12-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm 50 and every politican have said that SS and medicare were not substainable and talk about doing something about it and none do....just talk and not a relivent point any more because it still works and deficits are high and they don't get smaller but the right is going to tell you how they are going to save it.....bullsh>>t

BonMallari
08-12-2012, 04:13 PM
I don't think I would put Jake Kemp on my resume. Still he is not effective. No compromise and voting the party line is not an effective leader. Show me you are a leader and get something done. Anyone can do what he does....talk and do nothing


Your man in office is the best I have ever seen at doing just that.....and Jack Kemp was the kind of conservative that this country needs at this time;-)

Shadowhill
08-12-2012, 04:16 PM
If I were Biden I would run and hide

Biden probably is hiding and cussing about now. I'm sure he's bitten all his fingernails off as well! I can't wait to watch this debate!!!!

gmhr1
08-12-2012, 04:24 PM
Ryan will tweak this plan and they will compromise at least he has a start which is more than obama, who wants to keep spending. I'm not on medicare yet, but under Obama it wont be there when I need it and it sure won't be there for my daughter. In 4 years no one has come up with anything except Paul Ryan. I believe Ryan and Romney are 100% more truthful than Obama

President Obama's national health care law will cost $1.76 trillion over a decade, according to a new projection released today by the Congressional Budget Office, rather than the $940 billion forecast when it was signed into law.

Obamacare: This bill will be paid for by more than $500 billion in new taxes. The reform would impose an individual mandate on individuals, requiring every American to buy a government designed insurance package or pay a new tax equal to 2.5 percent of their income. At a time of rising unemployment, businesses would be required to provide health insurance to workers or pay a new tax equal to 8 percent of workers wages. These new taxes could drive the total cost to taxpayers much higher than the $500 billion in direct taxes in the bill.

coachmo
08-12-2012, 06:56 PM
So sambo when's the last time the democrats passed a budget? We know the reason they haven't but really when?

mngundog
08-12-2012, 07:41 PM
Biden probably is hiding and cussing about now. I'm sure he's bitten all his fingernails off as well! I can't wait to watch this debate!!!!

Judging by his track record in debates, I'm sure he's cowarding in fear after that last a** whupping he took.

Gerry Clinchy
08-12-2012, 08:57 PM
Truthfully, Biden appears to me not to even realize how dumb some of his stuff sounds.

He had a large advantage over Palin due to his years in the Senate. I don't expect him to fare nearly as well against Ryan.

Henry V
08-12-2012, 11:17 PM
A great choice. Ryan is a disciple of the atheist Russia philosopher Ayn Rand and claims to now be concerned about deficits although he voted for the Bush tax cuts, the largest expansion of medicare ever, and for putting two wars on the credit card, etc, etc.....
A great choice.

Matt McKenzie
08-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Talks the party talk....past that, I don't think he has an original thought.

I wish you were intelligent enough to understand the delicious irony of this coming from you.

gmhr1
08-13-2012, 08:49 AM
I think Sarah Palin held her own against Biden so this should be brutal. I would rather see Jack Kemp on Ryans resume than obamas Rev Wright.

mngundog
08-13-2012, 09:41 AM
I think Sarah Palin held her own against Biden so this should be brutal.

Really? :roll:

gmhr1
08-13-2012, 09:51 AM
We thought he would tear her up he didn't. She studied really hard for that one & was still standing. Interesting tidbit.... Paul Ryans mom lives in Flordia and is on medicare that portion was not aired in an interview that he did last night. Obama held a fund raiser in Chicago yesterday tickets were $51 room was only half full, Romney raised $5 Million since Sat. If your worried about medicare worry now Obama has cut 700 billion from it.

road kill
08-13-2012, 09:56 AM
This is a clear choice in philosophy.

1 choice is the Government gives you your rights and total wisdom lies within the secular progressive walls of Harvard.


The other choice thinks your rights are thru nature and God, with total wisdom within the words in the scripture.

Either we are still America, or......."we are Cuba now!"

menmon
08-13-2012, 09:56 AM
What good are budgets and debt ceilings if when you need to go over one you do.

road kill
08-13-2012, 10:01 AM
What good are budgets and debt ceilings if when you need to go over one you do.

If I accussed you of making this statement, you would be insulted.:rolleyes:

gmhr1
08-13-2012, 10:13 AM
Clear choice, keep obama destroy America live under a dictator or reform these programs and make America strong. I love to hear people chanting USA USA, its a proud moment to see people come together and be excited about America we have been beaten down pretty badly.

HPL
08-13-2012, 10:13 AM
This is a clear choice in philosophy.

1 choice is the Government gives you your rights and total wisdom lies within the secular progressive walls of Harvard.


The other choice thinks your rights are thru nature and God, with total wisdom within the words in the scripture.

Either we are still America, or......."we are Cuba now!"

Boy I hope this isn't right or I can't vote for anyone. I don't believe that the progressives have all the wisdom, but certainly don't wish to be ruled by folks who look solely to scripture for their guidance either. The world is not that black and white and I doubt that the founders looked at the world that way. They were educated men, some even men of science.

huntinman
08-13-2012, 10:46 AM
Boy I hope this isn't right or I can't vote for anyone. I don't believe that the progressives have all the wisdom, but certainly don't wish to be ruled by folks who look solely to scripture for their guidance either. The world is not that black and white and I doubt that the founders looked at the world that way. They were educated men, some even men of science.

That's exactly what Obama wants you to do...

Buzz
08-13-2012, 10:47 AM
Boy I hope this isn't right or I can't vote for anyone. I don't believe that the progressives have all the wisdom, but certainly don't wish to be ruled by folks who look solely to scripture for their guidance either. The world is not that black and white and I doubt that the founders looked at the world that way. They were educated men, some even men of science.


I know we disagree on a lot, but you often say things that I agree with wholeheartedly. This is one of them.

I watched a Ryan speech over the weekend and RK's statement that your rights come solely from nature and from God is an almost direct quote from that speech.

I think Ryan is a poor choice, but we'll see... I can't see how he broadens Romney's base...

road kill
08-13-2012, 10:56 AM
I know we disagree on a lot, but you often say things that I agree with wholeheartedly. This is one of them.

I watched a Ryan speech over the weekend and RK's statement that your rights come solely from nature and from God is an almost direct quote from that speech.

I think Ryan is a poor choice, but we'll see... I can't see how he broadens Romney's base...

Yep, almost, except the part where you progressives think our rights come from Government.:cool:

Right or wrong, here are your choices.

Franco
08-13-2012, 10:59 AM
Boy I hope this isn't right or I can't vote for anyone. I don't believe that the progressives have all the wisdom, but certainly don't wish to be ruled by folks who look solely to scripture for their guidance either. The world is not that black and white and I doubt that the founders looked at the world that way. They were educated men, some even men of science.

Me either!

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

One of the things I like about Paul Ryan is that his mentor is Ayn Rand!

Buzz
08-13-2012, 11:03 AM
Yep, almost, except the part where you progressives think our rights come from Government.:cool:

Right or wrong, here are your choices.


Like it or not, the government is us...

I believe that God put us here and gave us free will. Its up to us to defend our rights as human beings. He isn't going to interfere. All we can do is ask him to give us the strength and guidance to do the right thing.

If that makes me one of your "secular progressives," so be it.

Buzz
08-13-2012, 11:05 AM
Me either!

One of the things I like about Paul Ryan is that his mentor is Ayn Rand!

That's one of the things I don't like about Ryan. I think Randism = Satanism as I said earlier in this thread...

road kill
08-13-2012, 11:09 AM
Like it or not, the government is us...

I believe that God put us here and gave us free will. Its up to us to defend our rights as human beings. He isn't going to interfere. All we can do is ask him to give us the strength and guidance to do the right thing.If that makes me one of your "secular progressives," so be it.
I agree with that statement 100%

huntinman
08-13-2012, 11:23 AM
Like it or not, the government is us...

I believe that God put us here and gave us free will. Its up to us to defend our rights as human beings. He isn't going to interfere. All we can do is ask him to give us the strength and guidance to do the right thing.

If that makes me one of your "secular progressives," so be it.



Government does not give us our rights... whether one believes in God or not. We the people control government (although Obama does not believe that). It is time to take control back.

gmhr1
08-13-2012, 11:31 AM
Eric Holder can pack his bags along with Obama, We can get rid of this Corrupt gov't all at one time and say Bye to Obamacare .

mngundog
08-13-2012, 11:33 AM
Government does not give us our rights... whether one believes in God or not. We the people control government (although Obama does not believe that). It is time to take control back.
Are you legally required to have a drivers license to drive a car on a public street? I have to pay to get into our State Parks, to place my fish house on a public lake and to I am required to pay a inspector if I make improvements on my own property. I will make the argument that the Government does give us our rights and it has been going on for more than 2 years.

road kill
08-13-2012, 11:40 AM
BTW, in matters of faith, I am NOT telling anyone what they should beleive.
I just happen to beleive there is a power in the universe far greater than I.

I strive on a dailly basis to do the best I can and reconcile right and wrong with that power and my heart.

I know, how profound............

huntinman
08-13-2012, 11:42 AM
BTW, in matters of faith, I am NOT telling anyone what they chould beleive.
I just happen to beleive there is a power in the universe far greater than I.

I strive on a dailly basis to do the best I can and reconcile right and wrong with that power and my heart.

I know, how profound............



You heathen... you probably hate women and put dogs in crates too don't you??

JDogger
08-13-2012, 12:06 PM
1 choice is the Government gives you your rights and total wisdom lies within the secular progressive walls of Harvard.


The other choice thinks your rights are thru nature and God, with total wisdom within the words in the scripture.



Here I thought rights derived from the consent of the governed.

HPL
08-13-2012, 12:54 PM
That's exactly what Obama wants you to do...

Don't worry, I haven't seen enough religious fundamentalism coming out of either of the Rep candidates to drive me off this time. I'm strongly pro-choice, but its not a deal breaker and although I think that it would have been wiser to chose someone that appealed to the middle more than just exciting the base, this is what we are left with this year. My vote isn't really as important as in some states as I live in Texas and when I vote republican, it just adds to the pile on here, but I do believe that it is the civic duty of the educated to set a good example, so you can be sure that I'll be at the polls.

ARay11
08-13-2012, 02:00 PM
Don't worry, I haven't seen enough religious fundamentalism coming out of either of the Rep candidates to drive me off this time. I'm strongly pro-choice, but its not a deal breaker and although I think that it would have been wiser to chose someone that appealed to the middle more than just exciting the base, this is what we are left with this year. My vote isn't really as important as in some states as I live in Texas and when I vote republican, it just adds to the pile on here, but I do believe that it is the civic duty of the educated to set a good example, so you can be sure that I'll be at the polls.

I hate it when everyone I know is a Republican and and we still lose. :(
oklahoma, texas, colorado, nebraska, mississippi, arkasas, alabama, georgia, kentucky, louisiana, .......

And seems like when the Dems win CA, FL, NY.... all us in the middle get "middled out".

BonMallari
08-13-2012, 02:16 PM
Don't worry, I haven't seen enough religious fundamentalism coming out of either of the Rep candidates to drive me off this time. I'm strongly pro-choice, but its not a deal breaker and although I think that it would have been wiser to chose someone that appealed to the middle more than just exciting the base, this is what we are left with this year. My vote isn't really as important as in some states as I live in Texas and when I vote republican, it just adds to the pile on here, but I do believe that it is the civic duty of the educated to set a good example, so you can be sure that I'll be at the polls.


We (the R party) tried that in '08 with McCain...it didnt work then and sure as heck wont work now...the primary season was all about which candidate was more conservative, but Romney emerged mainly because he was more electable in a general election, which was already a move towards the middle....I want a clear difference between the Romney and BHO...those that are in the "middle" or are "undecided" can be swayed or turned at a moments notice

This election is more about which party can get their base out to vote, apathetic voters almost do as much harm as the ones that just vote based on a catchy slogan or because they are cool and hip....

If your litmus test is whether or not the candidate is pro life or pro choice, then none of the R candidates fit that criteria

huntinman
08-13-2012, 02:16 PM
I hate it when everyone I know is a Republican and and we still lose. :(
oklahoma, texas, colorado, nebraska, mississippi, arkasas, alabama, georgia, kentucky, louisiana, .......

And seems like when the Dems win CA, FL, NY.... all us in the middle get "middled out".



Not this year... Obama may be the best thing to ever happen to the conservative movement.

Franco
08-13-2012, 03:32 PM
We (the R party) tried that in '08 with McCain...it didnt work then and sure as heck wont work now...the primary season was all about which candidate was more conservative, but Romney emerged mainly because he was more electable in a general election, which was already a move towards the middle....I want a clear difference between the Romney and BHO...those that are in the "middle" or are "undecided" can be swayed or turned at a moments notice

This election is more about which party can get their base out to vote, apathetic voters almost do as much harm as the ones that just vote based on a catchy slogan or because they are cool and hip....

If your litmus test is whether or not the candidate is pro life or pro choice, then none of the R candidates fit that criteria

Really? You think picking Palin appealed to the middle? She was a clueless candidate pick from day 1 that did more to keep the "undecides" away from the GOP ticket than McCain ever did.

I like the Paul Ryan pick but, the desparity is in the GOP's inability to attact women. Until they drop the Pro Life banner, the vast majority of women will not vote Republican.

menmon
08-13-2012, 03:38 PM
Ryan...may get you WI...past that he does nothing for you

BonMallari
08-13-2012, 03:59 PM
Really? You think picking Palin appealed to the middle? She was a clueless candidate pick from day 1 that did more to keep the "undecides" away from the GOP ticket than McCain ever did.

I like the Paul Ryan pick but, the desparity is in the GOP's inability to attact women. Until they drop the Pro Life banner, the vast majority of women will not vote Republican.



No...McCain was the pick to the middle...if you and HPL think that this election will be won or lost on Pro life vs Pro choice , you both know better than that...you were both Ron Paul supporters (HPL I apologize if I miscategorized you)...but RP wasnt pro choice...so WHY are you now so concerned about the issue...this election is about the economy....as Mitch Daniels pointed out you go with the most electable conservative that can win the general election and you fight the social issue in the courts....

I also think you are very WRONG about women not voting Republican....pro choice women are going to vote D...pro life women will vote R.....Nothing a candidate can say or do is going to change their minds in either direction if THAT ISSUE is their tipping point....trying to get them to change their mind on the subject is a lesson in futility....accept it for what it is...I do

As a male I find it almost hilarious and somewhat sad that males try and tell a woman how she feels....as much as I am pro life, I am not going to tell a woman that she can or cant do what she feels she must or must not do, because its a no win situation...

HPL
08-13-2012, 04:19 PM
We (the R party) tried that in '08 with McCain...it didnt work then and sure as heck wont work now...the primary season was all about which candidate was more conservative, but Romney emerged mainly because he was more electable in a general election, which was already a move towards the middle....I want a clear difference between the Romney and BHO...those that are in the "middle" or are "undecided" can be swayed or turned at a moments notice

This election is more about which party can get their base out to vote, apathetic voters almost do as much harm as the ones that just vote based on a catchy slogan or because they are cool and hip....

If your litmus test is whether or not the candidate is pro life or pro choice, then none of the R candidates fit that criteria

I'm with Franco on this one. 2008 was the first time since I have been voting that I didn't vote Republican for Pres (went Libertarian) and Palin was the reason. I wanted to cry when she was chosen as the VP. I would have been McCain all the way if he hadn't just folded to the nearly hysterical demands of the uber right.

AS to the pro-choice question, I said it wasn't deal breaker as the most important issue to me this time is putting pretty much anybody else but Obama into the whitehouse, Hell, I might even have voted for Palin herself for pres had she been the only alternative this time.

BonMallari
08-13-2012, 04:31 PM
Guess what ...Palin isnt on the ballot this time...she isnt even getting a spot talking at the convention....she may be a media darling and some on here may swoon at the very mention of her....but the R party realized that she is a lightning rod, she cast her support behind Newt, and that didnt work....but notice how she is silent when it come to backing the nominee when it comes to beating BHO...maybe she isnt a R party woman that she claimed to be, but more about promoting herself..

and FTR I WAS a SP fan, until I closed my eyes ,got past her looks and realized she had no substance...

menmon
08-13-2012, 04:42 PM
She is not a good looking woman!

BonMallari
08-13-2012, 04:55 PM
She is not a good looking woman!

Sambo, you better make an appointment with the eye doctor.....if nothing else Sarah Palin IS a good looking woman, with or without the Tina Fey impersonation...

of course maybe your tastes are more along the lines of Hillary, Janet Reno, Nancy Pelosi, or DW Schultz....

Franco
08-13-2012, 04:57 PM
No...McCain was the pick to the middle...if you and HPL think that this election will be won or lost on Pro life vs Pro choice , you both know better than that...you were both Ron Paul supporters (HPL I apologize if I miscategorized you)...but RP wasnt pro choice...so WHY are you now so concerned about the issue...this election is about the economy....as Mitch Daniels pointed out you go with the most electable conservative that can win the general election and you fight the social issue in the courts....

I also think you are very WRONG about women not voting Republican....pro choice women are going to vote D...pro life women will vote R.....Nothing a candidate can say or do is going to change their minds in either direction if THAT ISSUE is their tipping point....trying to get them to change their mind on the subject is a lesson in futility....accept it for what it is...I do

As a male I find it almost hilarious and somewhat sad that males try and tell a woman how she feels....as much as I am pro life, I am not going to tell a woman that she can or cant do what she feels she must or must not do, because its a no win situation...

Like others, we have more important things to be concerned with than the Abortion issue. I agree that the Economy is the most important issue. However, with many women who don't spend as much time evaluating the issues and more time voting thier emotions, there is no denying that the GOP is on the wrong side of the abortion issue for the vast majority of them.

After 8 years of Bush and Palin as the VP candidate last election, the GOP has a lot to overcome if they are to take the White House. It is THE major reason we now have Obama!

P S

Kate Upton is an attractive woman. S Palin is ordinary looking in my book;)

HPL
08-13-2012, 04:58 PM
Guess what ...Palin isnt on the ballot this time...she isnt even getting a spot talking at the convention....she may be a media darling and some on here may swoon at the very mention of her....but the R party realized that she is a lightning rod, she cast her support behind Newt, and that didnt work....but notice how she is silent when it come to backing the nominee when it comes to beating BHO...maybe she isnt a R party woman that she claimed to be, but more about promoting herself..

and FTR I WAS a SP fan, until I closed my eyes ,got past her looks and realized she had no substance...

Perhaps she realizes that she can help most by having a low profile this time around.

gmhr1
08-13-2012, 05:13 PM
If you support Obama Kiss medicare goodbye. Romney will reform it , we will still have it but under Obama it is going away. This has being reported for a long time that they are going broke now its time to do something about it.

BonMallari
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
Perhaps she realizes that she can help most by having a low profile this time around.

We can only hope...she has alienated as many female voters as those that favored her...but there is talk that she like Ron Paul will have alternative speaking engagements away from the convention....

Cody Covey
08-13-2012, 05:21 PM
P S

Kate Upton is an attractive woman. S Palin is ordinary looking in my book;)

Best comment of the thread!

Ken Bora
08-13-2012, 06:29 PM
She is not a good looking woman!

for your party line eye :D
http://z.about.com/d/womenshistory/1/0/l/d/2/sojourner_truth_michelle_obama_pelosi_86264026a.jp g
.

road kill
08-13-2012, 07:00 PM
She is not a good looking woman!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Political/Demwomen.jpghttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Political/Republicanwomen.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cody Covey
08-13-2012, 07:49 PM
how can you forget

http://www.gq.com/images/women/2010/12/megyn-kelly/megyn-kelly_300x430.jpg

JDogger
08-13-2012, 08:09 PM
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Political/Demwomen.jpghttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Political/Republicanwomen.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes stan. Politics is an ugly game. And that old devil time will see all youth and beauty fade. Ha ha, I guess.

Try to stay OT. OK? JD

coachmo
08-13-2012, 09:35 PM
Beauty is only skin deep but ugly is to the bone and most of the democrat women have that covered.

Gerry Clinchy
08-13-2012, 10:51 PM
As a male I find it almost hilarious and somewhat sad that males try and tell a woman how she feels....as much as I am pro life, I am not going to tell a woman that she can or cant do what she feels she must or must not do, because its a no win situation...
Wisdom from Facebook: Men say that women should come with instructions. What's the point? Have you ever known a man who would read them?
:-)

JDogger
08-13-2012, 10:57 PM
Beauty is only skin deep but ugly is to the bone and most of the fox women have that covered.

fixed for ya! JD

HPL
08-13-2012, 10:59 PM
how can you forget

http://www.gq.com/images/women/2010/12/megyn-kelly/megyn-kelly_300x430.jpg

OK, who is this? Looks really familiar, but I find that true of almost ALL attractive women.

JDogger
08-13-2012, 11:02 PM
OK, who is this? Looks really familiar, but I find that true of almost ALL attractive women.

Right click...properties...love them aggies :confused:

Gerry Clinchy
08-13-2012, 11:13 PM
Was listening to some audio clips of stump speeches by Romney and Ryan today. I think that Ryan is proving an "energizer" to Romney on a personal level. He seems to be "fighting back". In the clip I heard, he was being heckled. He waited it out, the crowd got behind him, and he challenged, "Mr. President, get your campaign out of the gutter and start talking about the issues that matter!" (paraphrased).

No doubt the Obama campaign was prepared to slice and dice any of the VP prospects, so we can expect plenty of that. However, if R&R keep throwing down the gauntlet to talk about substantive issues, it could draw attention to the lowness of ads like the one of Joe Soptic's accusations, especially with even some Ds and media expressing their disapproval.


Here I thought rights derived from the consent of the governed.
Don't think so ... the govt gets ITS rights from the consent of the governed. The people are endowed with their rights by their creator.

charly_t
08-13-2012, 11:18 PM
Wisdom from Facebook: Men say that women should come with instructions. What's the point? Have you ever known a man who would read them?
:-)

"I don't care who you are that is funny".
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

HPL
08-13-2012, 11:35 PM
Right click...properties...love them aggies :confused:

I'm on a mac and don't get the "properties" choice when I right click the image, but I could copy the address and then paste it and of course!! It's that great looking 41 year old Megyn Kelly from fox news. I kinda thought thats who it was. She's a looker (wuff). (needs a little makeup on that red nose though).

Buzz
08-14-2012, 11:54 AM
I believe that Jesus told us to love our neighbor and be charitable. I don't believe that he told us the govt should do that in our stead.

Now, that was a statement by a Georgetown scholar about the teachings of the "Church"; presumably the RC church. If you (or he) would cite chapter and verse, it might make for interesting discussion.


I hope this helps.


Catholic Social Teaching


1. The Dignity of the Human Person
The dignity of the human person flows from his/her creation in God's image. This divine image gives sanctity to every human life. Consequently, every human being possesses an inalienable dignity and fundamental value that transcends gender, race, class, ethnicity and nationality.
We can only support human dignity and achieve healthy communities if we protect human rights. Every person has a fundamental right to life and a right to those things required for human dignity, such as adequate food, housing, work, education, transportation, healthcare, and freedom of communication and expression. It follows, then, that the goods of the earth are meant to enhance human life and dignity ("universal destination of goods"). They are not meant to be counters in a competition to see who can amass the most, nor are they meant to be symbols of superiority. Owners who heedlessly idolize their goods (cf. Matthew 6:24, 19:21-26; Luke 16:13) become owned and enslaved by them. Only by recognizing that these goods are dependent on God the Creator and then directing their use to the common good, is it possible to give material goods their proper function as useful tools for the growth of individuals and peoples.

2. Common Good
Persons are both sacred and social; human dignity is realized in community. Every aspect of life in community is measured by how the dignity of each person is upheld.
This means that the community (society, economy, nation, world) must be structured to do the most good for all the persons who inhabit it. When each person focuses exclusively on his/her own personal gain, this does not result in a community that serves everyone. The poorer, weaker members of the group are denied the means and opportunities for a dignified life – and everyone is treated as prey rather than as neighbor. Both personal and collective actions must be judged according to whether they promote the common good, not just one's own self-interest. Indeed, the authentic reason for government is to achieve the common good.

3. Preferential Option for People Who Are Poor
Because poorer members of the group do not have the same resources as wealthier, more powerful members, Catholic Social Teaching says that we must focus special attention on meeting the needs of those who are poor. When decisions are being made, extra weight should be given to helping people who are vulnerable and at the margins of society.

4. Solidarity
We are one human family despite boundary lines and prejudices. We are our brothers' and sisters' keepers, wherever they may be. Solidarity helps us see the "other" – whether a person, group or nation – as our neighbor, a "sharer," a "helper," without regard to age, race, gender, ethnicity, political persuasion or any other category. There is an interconnection among all peoples that demands we value and respect all.

5. Participation as a Basic Human Right
Given the dignity of each person, it follows that participation in decisions that affect us is a basic human right. This, in turn, suggests subsidiarity as a basic rule of social organization: decisions should be made as close as possible to the level of individual initiative in communities and institutions. Families, local community groups, local governments and small businesses should be fostered and their input considered. Larger government structures have an important role to play, but that role only occurs when greater social coordination, regulation and efficiency are necessary for the common good. Indeed, the principle of subsidiarity – from the same Latin root ("subsidium") that gives us "subsidy" – requires larger government structures to support, promote and develop those forms of social organization that are closer to the level of individual initiative.

6. Dignity of Work
Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in God's creation. It is a way to express the uniqueness of the person in a way that contributes to the good of the whole. If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers must be respected – the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions, and to economic initiative. The economy must serve people, not the other way around.

7. Stewardship of God's Creation
We show our respect for the Creator by our stewardship of creation; indeed, we are "co-creators" of the world we touch. This means that we need to stay in right relation with the physical world. Because of the greater impact that human beings have on the world, we have a special responsibility in our use of material things: the production, transport, sale and disposal of goods must be respectful of ecological systems and the all that depends on those systems. This is not merely do-gooder benevolence to species other than ourselves, it is a requirement for our own survival. We simply cannot live without clean air, clean water and a healthy environment. Our earthly resources are limited; we need to use them in a way that allows regeneration (replacing resources when possible, like growing new trees) and sustainability (using resources prudently so that they will last as long as possible).

Gerry Clinchy
08-14-2012, 02:42 PM
Buzz, I see that there is one quotation of "chapter & verse" ... the rest is how the RC church interprets some very basic teachings.

It does not convince me that being charitable and helping our fellow man is a responsibility of govt. And, when church and politics intertwine, you have the situation of the RC being in favor of "the common good" which is also a tenet of communism and socialism ...one of which is known for its atheistic bent and the other for at least its secular bent. And Obama may believe in distributing the wealth, but he also voted for 3rd trimester abortion.

So, if one uses the "common good" as a reason to support Ds, it runs head on into the abortion issue, too. A very good reason for govt not to interfere with religion; and religion not to align itself with a particular political influence.

Render unto God that which is God's; and unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

Rand was an atheist, but her value of the individual is no less than the Christian value of each individual. My take on Rand was that she did not discount the value of individuals less endowed with the capabilities of the "stars" of her books. She acknowledged value of each individual's contribution at whatever level their abilities were. I'd have to re-read the book to pull out the names of the characters that exhibited that.

gmhr1
08-14-2012, 05:40 PM
Pres tying to blame Paul Ryan for the drought bill being held up Another LIE. The Rep's signed off on this two weeks ago its now held up with the Dems ) Good old Harry Reid) and of course everyone needed their vacation time they have worked so hard.... oh thats right they havent past a budget in the last 3 years.


I bet Obama cannot stand all this attention Paul Ryan is getting. Wait till Ryan gets to FL where his Mom lives and shes on medicare.

Obama can go preach his plan "SHARE PROSPERITY" socialism as its best

Buzz
08-15-2012, 09:06 AM
Rand was an atheist, but her value of the individual is no less than the Christian value of each individual. My take on Rand was that she did not discount the value of individuals less endowed with the capabilities of the "stars" of her books. She acknowledged value of each individual's contribution at whatever level their abilities were. I'd have to re-read the book to pull out the names of the characters that exhibited that.


You have to be kidding. Rand did not preach respect for the individual, she preaches hero worship. She argues that altruism is immoral and that selfishness is the ultimate good. It is immoral to do anything but what is strictly in your own self interest. To her there is no greater good than individual self-satisfaction. There is nothing christian about that. I read Atlas Shrugged when I was in high school. I thought it was a great book. Recently I picked it up and read it again and I was shocked at how juvenile and how evil it is. I actually could not get more than about 2/3 through it the second time.

Gerry Clinchy
08-15-2012, 10:05 AM
Buzz, it just goes to show how different people can see different things in what one reads between the lines.

If altruism is "giving" without concern for one's personal selfishness is the ultimate good. I think that Jesus was the only human who had true altruism. When a richer person gives to a poorer person, there is always a personal satisfaction. You feel good about doing what you perceive as being the "right thing." A parent who sacrifices something for the well-being of their child, gains personal satisfaction. A fireman who saves a life, feels personal gratification.

I am NOT saying that feeling good about doing good is wrong. Not at all! What I am saying is that I am hard-pressed to find any act we do is purely altruistic ... although it may appear to be.

But that is what I see, and you come away with a different view. That's okay in my book. I took one of those personality tests some years ago, and I fell into a group that accounts for only 2% of the general population. So, I've gotten used to having the other 98% not agree with me on any number of points.

However, what we do agree upon, from your previous posts, is that Atlas did demonstrate what road we travel when we move toward assuming govt is the best avenue for doing good deeds. And we should not forget that Rand came from a place where communism ultimately did not work. When money and power are concentrated in govt that has power to "punish" for non-compliance, individuals get short shrift in the deal. We see it in the way that lobbyists of every type try (and succeed) to influence who ends up with the govt power to mete out the punishments (laws).