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Ken Bora
08-16-2012, 07:09 AM
An interesting few minutes this a.m. over on the facebook. One of my facebook friends. My soon to be uncle as he is about to marry an Aunt of mine. Nice guy, lives just outside of D.C in a town named Falls Church. Active in poly tics. A democrat. He and I were commenting to each other on the public news feed about the Presidents health care plan. I used factual statements from personal experience, and I feel (and he as well) was besting him. He deleted the entire thread. We were not yelling or quoting party rhetoric. Just having a very polite, factual conversation over morning coffee. And he ran away. Now this is not my first such experience. Just the most recent.
So my question, to EVERYONE in our potus group.
Why is it that SOME folk who are very good at yelling and chanting and quoting sound bites, from ether side. When offered a chance to just sit down and talk honestly about things they actually know about a topic. Run away? How can anyone, from ether side accomplish anything, if they run away? Policy is made with pencil and desk, not bonfire and chant.?????:(

dixidawg
08-16-2012, 07:26 AM
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When you have neither, holler.”
Al Gore

HPL
08-16-2012, 08:01 AM
In politics, as in everything, there are those who really don't know how to have a discussion without devolving into calling "stupid head!!" when confronted with facts that might force them into changing their position or admitting that their position cannot be logically defended. That is one reason I like written discussions as opposed to extemporaneous dialogue. When discussing a topic as it is done on this (and other) forums, one has time to consider, and even do a little research and fact checking before answering. I am also old enough to be content in the knowledge that not all my positions are logical and that is just the way it is.

It can be aggravating when folks won't gird their loins and step up just when it's getting good though. My position has always been first one to call stupid head loses.

Buzz
08-16-2012, 08:25 AM
In my experience with Facebook, I have actually "unfriended" old acquaintances who insist on making it a forum for spouting their political beliefs. Some of the stuff you see on there is really nasty. You see, as Facebook friends I have Dad, my wife, my daughter, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc as friends. I don't feel it is fair to expose them all to the BS. So I only comment on something political on there if something REALLY gets under my skin. I do not as a personal policy discuss politics with family. Well, I do discuss with my Dad and my wife, but we agree on everything...

road kill
08-16-2012, 09:30 AM
Right brain vs. left brain thing.

Feelings, ideology vs. facts & common sense

Buzz
08-16-2012, 09:31 AM
Right brain / left brain thing.


So, I'm curious. Are engineers right or left brained? How about conservatives?

road kill
08-16-2012, 09:33 AM
So, I'm curious. Are engineers right or left brained? How about conservatives?
It doesn't matter, that is where the conflict is.

Most engineers are probably right brain, but clearly there are exceptions, right?:D

How about liberals/progressives??
Though I'm guessing there are none, because none of them will admit to it.

J Hoggatt
08-16-2012, 09:37 AM
So, I'm curious. Are engineers right or left brained? How about conservatives?

oohh-- ooohh- Can I answer that one!!??


Here is goes....................... Train Engineers are on the right track!!!!..........



Buzz - Have a good day!.....
ps-- i wont quit my day job....

zeus3925
08-16-2012, 09:45 AM
When it comes down to values of religion or politics the arguments get heated and no one either cares to listen or to change philosophy.

mngundog
08-16-2012, 09:50 AM
Ken, what facts would you use to win that argument? Do you use the numbers from Fox that clearly tells us the plan is going to cost us about a trillion dollars over the long haul, or the numbers from MSNBC that clearly state that the plan is going to save us around a trillion dollars? :D
On a serious note I could see how someone could get into a political discussion on their facebook page and then decide that their political rants reflected badly on them whether or not they were winning or losing an argument, I don't know if I would call that running.

ARay11
08-16-2012, 09:53 AM
oohh-- ooohh- Can I answer that one!!??


Here is goes....................... Train Engineers are on the right track!!!!..........



Buzz - Have a good day!.....
ps-- i wont quit my day job....

LOVIN IT! :)

and I completely agree with Sarge \\ neither side has much interest in changing/listening. sometimes I just hope the "thoughts" and "ideas" nag in the back of their minds a bit.

I got "unfriended" by an old classmate last week due to a similar situation... discussing taxes. Civil, rational, and yes, winning the debate.... he deleted the entire thread. And then unfriended me. I calmly sent a message saying I expected better from him. I received the new friend requested, and declined. You don't always hafta agree with me..... civil discussion is more than welcome. I sometimes hear the other person's point of view. I do try to be open minded. Although I admit it does not always work for me. :p

PamK
08-16-2012, 09:55 AM
I am really careful about what I put on my facebook page. Recently there have been companies requiring new hires to give them their facebook information so the HR dept can see what they post.

I wouldn’t want any of my beliefs to stop me from getting a job.

BonMallari
08-16-2012, 10:19 AM
One of the reasons I don't do Facebook....there are friends and family that I won't/can't discuss politics-religion-guns with....here on the RTF I can walk away and turn off or ignore those that I don't care to talk with...even though you can do that on FB, feelings get hurt when you unfriend someone...the other thing is that many of my friends/family dont necessarily like some of the people that I may like or the things I do,(hunting friends vs non hunting ones)...

Gerry Clinchy
08-16-2012, 10:22 AM
I am really careful about what I put on my facebook page. Recently there have been companies requiring new hires to give them their facebook information so the HR dept can see what they post.

I wouldn’t want any of my beliefs to stop me from getting a job.

So much for the first amendment? Although one would hope that this is a precaution against pedophiles & such rather than political beliefs ... but how could one be sure of that?

Ken Bora
08-16-2012, 11:05 AM
Ken, what facts would you use to win that argument? Do you use the numbers from Fox that clearly tells us the plan is going to cost us about a trillion dollars over the long haul, or the numbers from MSNBC that clearly state that the plan is going to save us around a trillion dollars? :D
.
I used actual numbers from my health care provider statement. Actual paragraph from letter from provider telling me why they were discontinuing the plan option my Boss and I were happy with. And actual campaign promises from last erection. I was Jack Webb, just the facts.

mngundog
08-16-2012, 11:09 AM
I used actual numbers from my health care provider statement. Actual paragraph from letter from provider telling me why they were discontinuing the plan option my Boss and I were happy with. And actual campaign promises from last erection. I was Jack Webb, just the facts.
I take it your mad about your Viagra prescription since we're talking about the last erection.

Jason Glavich
08-16-2012, 11:09 AM
A friend of mine had the same issue, he posted a seemingly simple post asking why everyone who was born in America cannot just be called an American instead of _________-American. He was called a hate filled monster,racist,homophobe etc by people who were his friends, then was defriended by a few who thought what he asked was right wing lunacy.

People who have no idea why they support what they support or why they support it always run away, they usually do it after stating things that are untrue and being shown that. it sucks when everything you believe falls down around you.

Ken Bora
08-16-2012, 11:14 AM
dam that spell check

M&K's Retrievers
08-16-2012, 01:31 PM
oohh-- ooohh- Can I answer that one!!??


Here is goes....................... Train Engineers are on the right track!!!!..........



Buzz - Have a good day!.....
ps-- i wont quit my day job....

My Dad was a Civil Engineer. Come to think of it, he was very polite. :cool:

john fallon
08-17-2012, 05:11 PM
You can tell from their writing when they are about to bail out on their position. When you see the words "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT", scrawled in their babel, they are on their way out the door;-)


john