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menmon
09-19-2012, 02:00 PM
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/19/fast-and-furious-report-finds-doj-management-failures/


You guys can look for some new scandel now...this one did not stick:rolleyes:

Raymond Little
09-19-2012, 02:16 PM
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/19/fast-and-furious-report-finds-doj-management-failures/


You guys can look for some new scandel now...this one did not stick:rolleyes:

Yep, Communist News Channel always tells it straight up the middle.:barf:

Uncle Bill
09-19-2012, 03:55 PM
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/19/fast-and-furious-report-finds-doj-management-failures/


You guys can look for some new scandel now...this one did not stick:rolleyes:


Only a sycophant like you can buy into this. If you weren't such a toad, you'd still be concerned about Holders contempt of court charges that will bring him through the civil enforcement of those charges. Hopefully, since the messiah got involved with some unconstitutional gobbldygook, he too will be involved in the entire court case.

All of their 'fall-on-the-sword' little people now being fired to cover their collective arses, will not be adequate protection. Their only hope is the entire affair will probably be dropped when Obama isn't re-elected.

UB

menmon
09-19-2012, 04:20 PM
Did you read the part that said this began in 2006....who was the POTUS then.....I'm sure he put the sting in motion....lets file charges and sue him too. This is typical right natzi crapollla

road kill
09-19-2012, 04:54 PM
Did you read the part that said this began in 2006....who was the POTUS then.....I'm sure he put the sting in motion....lets file charges and sue him too. This is typical right natzi crapollla
Yep, it was all Bush!!!!!!

ARay11
09-19-2012, 05:03 PM
if he is responsible...yes, he should be held accountable!

I can never accept the manager's position of "I had no idea it was happening"

No business accepts that. The USA should not be any different.

Gerry Clinchy
09-19-2012, 06:22 PM
Did you read the part that said this began in 2006....who was the POTUS then.....I'm sure he put the sting in motion....lets file charges and sue him too. This is typical right natzi crapollla
In which case, if Holder had no idea what was going on, he must be grossly incompetent; as well as whoever of his staff should have known, and either didn't know or didn't report to Holder.

Yes, we know there was a similar type of operation during the Bush administration, but it was shut down when they discovered that the GSPs that were being implanted in the weapons they were tracking were being removed by the criminals. That operation had been shut down before F&F began. The reference to 2006 was in Holder's statement, but was a vague reference, without detail. The Wide Receiver operation (under Bush) was mentioned long ago, and also that it had been terminated while Bush was still POTUS.

From the full CNN article:

Wednesday's report criticized Breuer and another top official, Gary Grindler, who was acting deputy attorney general when the events took place, for failing to pass along information to the attorney general and other top officials. But they remain with the department.

Cody Covey
09-19-2012, 08:06 PM
Did you read the part that said this began in 2006....who was the POTUS then.....I'm sure he put the sting in motion....lets file charges and sue him too. This is typical right natzi crapollla

Get your facts right. While, the program of attempting to follow the gun trail did start under Bush it was a completely different program than the one started under Obama / Holder. Under the previous program the guns were never let over the border without safe guards in place and many of them at that. Under Holder the guns were just let loose and we hoped to find serial numbers after murders of border patrol agents I suppose. The operation wide receiver started under Bush was shut down in 2007 after it was deemed a failure....

And two HUGE points. Under Bush's separate program no Americans were killed. Secondly is the fact that the Mexican government was kept in the loop through the entirety of the program.

You are either uninformed or lying...typical left wing crapola....

helencalif
09-19-2012, 11:35 PM
Get your facts right. While, the program of attempting to follow the gun trail did start under Bush it was a completely different program than the one started under Obama / Holder. Under the previous program the guns were never let over the border without safe guards in place and many of them at that. Under Holder the guns were just let loose and we hoped to find serial numbers after murders of border patrol agents I suppose. The operation wide receiver started under Bush was shut down in 2007 after it was deemed a failure....

And two HUGE points. Under Bush's separate program no Americans were killed. Secondly is the fact that the Mexican government was kept in the loop through the entirety of the program.....

Worth repeating. Cody is right.

In Wide Receiver, the guns had gsps installed, the guns were tracked on both sides of the border because Mexico was involved in the operation. Arrests were made. When it was discovered that the bad guys learned about the gsps and removed them from the guns, the Wide Receiver operation was terminated. A little over 300 guns were involved and many were recovered.

In Fast and Furious, Mexico was not told and not included in the operation. Over 2,000 guns walked across the border and were not tracked at all. The F & F operation continued until our border agent Terry was killed. And then the DOJ denied that guns had walked. Took them 8 months before they admitted it.

Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious were totally different operations. Do your homework and take time to research both operations so you know how different they were.'

The Oversight Hearing on the inspector general's report is tomorrow morning. I hope they ask the IG about Lanny Breuer's involvement and why he got a pass in the report when documents prove he knew all about it.

Helen

Gerry Clinchy
09-20-2012, 08:34 AM
Also hope that the Oversight Hearing reminds everyone about the whistle-blower at the field level who said superiors refused to respond to warnings that the operation was failing (BEFORE the border agent was killed) ... and that the gun dealers who were recruited to cooperate with the operation also objected; and would never have otherwise made the sales to such obvious straw buyers.

menmon
09-20-2012, 09:38 AM
Worth repeating. Cody is right.

In Wide Receiver, the guns had gsps installed, the guns were tracked on both sides of the border because Mexico was involved in the operation. Arrests were made. When it was discovered that the bad guys learned about the gsps and removed them from the guns, the Wide Receiver operation was terminated. A little over 300 guns were involved and many were recovered.

In Fast and Furious, Mexico was not told and not included in the operation. Over 2,000 guns walked across the border and were not tracked at all. The F & F operation continued until our border agent Terry was killed. And then the DOJ denied that guns had walked. Took them 8 months before they admitted it.

Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious were totally different operations. Do your homework and take time to research both operations so you know how different they were.'

The Oversight Hearing on the inspector general's report is tomorrow morning. I hope they ask the IG about Lanny Breuer's involvement and why he got a pass in the report when documents prove he knew all about it.

Helen

All I was reporting is that it is over....and that you needed to look for something else to bash the president with

caryalsobrook
09-20-2012, 09:44 AM
All I was reporting is that it is over....and that you needed to look for something else to bash the president with

Looks like it aint over til the fat lady(uh AG) sings!;)

dixidawg
09-20-2012, 10:05 AM
So let me get this straight ... the OIG at the Department of Justice has cleared the head of the Department of Justice?

Somehow I don't think this is really over.....

ARay11
09-20-2012, 10:11 AM
unfortunately, it probably IS over.... this administration will commit whatever crimes necessary to achieve re election.

And that will include burying this story and clearing Holder.

duckheads
09-20-2012, 10:36 AM
So let me get this straight ... the OIG at the Department of Justice has cleared the head of the Department of Justice?

Somehow I don't think this is really over.....


unfortunately, it probably IS over.... this administration will commit whatever crimes necessary to achieve re election.

And that will include burying this story and clearing Holder.

And there are people like our resident "Bob Beckel" that are ok with this!

Gerry Clinchy
09-20-2012, 01:18 PM
The report said: "We reviewed the wiretap affidavits in both Operation Wide Receiver and
Operation Fast and Furious and concluded that the affidavits in both cases included information that would have caused a prosecutor who was focused on the question of investigative tactics, particularly one who was already sensitive to the issue of 'gun walking,' to have questions about ATF's conduct of the investigations," the report said.

Horowitz (the IG) repeated that claim Thursday, saying: "If you were focused and looking at the question of gunwalking you would read these reports and see many red flags."

Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, said Holder's testimony from earlier this year was a "direct contradiction" to that.
Holder said at the time: "I've looked at these affidavits. I've looked at these summaries. There's nothing in those affidavits as I've reviewed them that indicates that gunwalking was allowed. Let's get to the bottom line -- so I didn't see anything in there that would put on notice a person who was reviewing either at the line level or at the deputy assistant attorney general level, that you would have knowledge of the fact that these inappropriate tactics were being used."

Gowdy said that in light of that testimony, the IG's conclusion was "startling."

But a Justice Department official said Holder's statements to Congress were accurate, noting that, "the affidavits do not explicitly and clearly say gun-walking" and claiming the IG report doesn't allege that either. (What the IG said was that any smart prosecutor should have seen the significance. Sort of like Clinton saying he didn't have sex with that woman? Depends on your "interpretation.")

Gowdy also questioned how employees under Breuer were being disciplined while Breuer so far has not been in any serious way.

"How does he escape discipline?" Gowdy asked.

The IG report criticized Breuer for not notifying Holder about Operation Wide Receiver, the prior Bush-era gunwalking investigation, when he first learned about it in 2010.




Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/20/watchdog-describes-pattern-serious-failures-in-fast-and-furious/#ixzz272CiaG45


One legislator explained it as: "...passengers charged with speeding; driver exonerated."

helencalif
09-20-2012, 03:29 PM
One legislator explained it as: "...passengers charged with speeding; driver exonerated."


It appears that the OIG was allowed to go only so far up the DOJ chain of command. So Lanny Breuer at the DOJ is criticized only for not telling his immediate boss Holder about Wide Receiver. Wide Receiver? Lanny Breuer knew about Fast and Furious. What about that operation?

Helen

Gerry Clinchy
12-18-2012, 09:00 PM
From CBS News today:

Another weapon from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agency's controversial Operation Fast and Furious was recently recovered at a Mexican crime scene, CBS News has learned. Congressional investigators say the crime scene was likely where a recent shootout took place between reported Sinaloa drug cartel members and the Mexican military, in which Sinaloa beauty queen Maria Susana Flores Gamez and four others were killed.


According to Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, the Justice Department did not notify Congress of the Fast and Furious firearm recovery in November, even though Grassley has requested an accounting of weapons that surface from the case. During Fast and Furious, ATF allowed more than 2,000 weapons, including giant .50-caliber guns, to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels and other criminals. Other so-called "gunwalking" operations by ATF let hundreds more guns hit the street. Most of them have never been recovered.

The latest known recovery is a Romanian AK-47-type WASR-10 rifle. It was picked up at a crime scene Nov. 23 in Ciudad Guamuchil, Sinaloa, Mexico. That's the same area and weekend of the shootout involving Flores Gamez's death. A trace report shows the rifle was purchased by Uriel Patino, the Fast and Furious suspect who allegedly bought more than 700 weapons while under ATF's watch. Records show Patino bought the rifle and nine other semi-automatic rifles at an Arizona gun shop March 16, 2010.

Grassley has sent a letter to the Justice Department requesting more information, and asking whether the officials were planning to notify Congress "that a Fast and Furious weapon had been recovered."

The Justice Department provided no immediate response to CBS News.

The shootout involving Gamez had been reported by CBS News on 11/27/12, but the fact that a gun found at the scene was from the Fast & Furious operation was just reported today.

JDogger
12-18-2012, 10:20 PM
Fast & Furious is over. Much the same as Iran-Contra is over...JD

road kill
12-19-2012, 06:27 AM
Just for the heck of it, do a search on

"fast & furious mexican massacre"

Read & learn..............

Gerry Clinchy
12-19-2012, 10:53 AM
Fast & Furious is over. Much the same as Iran-Contra is over...JD

As I recall, Reagan faced the American people over Iran-Contra. I don't recall the exact wording of his televised message. It's probably out there on YouTube somewhere. Obama chose to issue an executive order and stand behind Holder's department's actions. Oliver North became an outcast over I-C. It's still hard to figure out which major figure has suffered much damage over F&F.

Gerry Clinchy
12-19-2012, 11:21 AM
I found the Reagan televised address ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R67CH-qhXJs

road kill
12-19-2012, 11:41 AM
I found the Reagan televised address ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R67CH-qhXJs
Did you find the Obama address???

Oh....wait.......they ain't one!!!!:cool: