PDA

View Full Version : Stop epidemic of Voter Fraud



Nate_C
09-24-2012, 03:27 PM
So many, mostly republicans are pushing for voter ID. There is no rule in this country to have a picture ID, but every citizen does have the right to vote. I would consider it a fundamental conservative belief that we should try to limit rule/regs if not necessary and If you are going to require something like this I would think there should be good reason. However there doesn't seem to be any.

http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-look-voter-fraud-little-172327169--election.html

I can see no other real reason to push this except to deter some voters, mainly minority/lower income/urban voters all who tend to be more liberal. If nothing else this is a bad PR move on the part of conservatives.

twall
09-24-2012, 04:03 PM
I think that everyone who is legally allowed to vote should hve the right to vote. I have not problem with needing a picture ID to vote. I have no problem with having to verify that I ca legally vote. Just look at the Minnesota senatorial election where Al Franken won. It was very close and there were a number of irregularities and instances where felons voted.

We have devalued voting into something we take for granted. It is our greatest responsibility to our country and I won't be offended to be checked again and again. We are too think skined and get offended at the most trifiling issues.

Tom

Uncle Bill
09-24-2012, 04:18 PM
So many, mostly republicans are pushing for voter ID. There is no rule in this country to have a picture ID, but every citizen does have the right to vote. I would consider it a fundamental conservative belief that we should try to limit rule/regs if not necessary and If you are going to require something like this I would think there should be good reason. However there doesn't seem to be any.

http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-look-voter-fraud-little-172327169--election.html

I can see no other real reason to push this except to deter some voters, mainly minority/lower income/urban voters all who tend to be more liberal. If nothing else this is a bad PR move on the part of conservatives.

"I can see no other real reason to push this except to deter some voters". Ya s'pose????

Take your bleeding heart to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. The last time Senator Johnson, you know the guy you can't understand because he's had a stroke, but still ran on the sympathy vote so he could get more of the tax payers money in his pension...yeh, that guy. His vote total from the res exceeded the number of adult 'of-voter-age' inhabitants. Dont' suppose there just MAY have been some FRAUD involved? Is it possible that a picture ID might make that population a tad more legal?

If you have zero concern about voter fraud, move to Chicago. Just think, if you were to die, you could vote any number of times in that city. And we wouldn't even care how many times you voted, because your phoney concern for the "minority/lower income/urban" voters would all be in the Obama bag right along with you, and you'd all have so much fun knowing your big government teat is still available for all the Democrats and illegals.

I'll take my chances at making "a bad PR move" under these circumstances any day.

UB

Gerry Clinchy
09-24-2012, 05:45 PM
When Florida started checking it's voter rolls, they, did, indeed find many ineligible voters on the rolls.

If I'm an illegal alien, and have an address, what's to keep me from showing up at the polls?

PA is instituting a photo ID this year ... and there are many ways to get one. There is an all-out effort to provide an ID to anyone that wants one. The local state representative has stated that if ANYone has a problem getting such an ID, then his office will help. BTW, if you can't get to one of the places to get an ID ... how do you get to the polls to vote? Many, many options are available for anyone who wants to get the ID.

murral stark
09-24-2012, 06:05 PM
isn't there a list of the registered voters at the polling place already? Don't you have to show an ID to register to vote? That should be enough. they're a registered voter already. Check their name with the registration list. You can only vote once right? Or is there evidence that the same person is is voting multiple times?

Ken Bora
09-24-2012, 06:29 PM
isn't there a list of the registered voters at the polling place already? Don't you have to show an ID to register to vote? That should be enough. they're a registered voter already. Check their name with the registration list. You can only vote once right? Or is there evidence that the same person is is voting multiple times?

just a few days ago when I voted in the state election primary here. I was looking at the list upside down as the Grandmother working the table looked for my name. I spotted, reading upside down, the name David Bora above mine. David was my Grandfathers Brother. I pointed out that he passed away in the late 1980's. She made a note. While I point this out to the workers every time I vote. His name remains. So, in theory I coulda waited until that worker went on break and walked up to the same table and said I was David Bora and voted again. The system is very flocked up. Hanging chads anyone?

JDogger
09-25-2012, 12:00 AM
just a few days ago when I voted in the state election primary here. I was looking at the list upside down as the Grandmother working the table looked for my name. I spotted, reading upside down, the name David Bora above mine. David was my Grandfathers Brother. I pointed out that he passed away in the late 1980's. She made a note. While I point this out to the workers every time I vote. His name remains. So, in theory I coulda waited until that worker went on break and walked up to the same table and said I was David Bora and voted again. The system is very flocked up. Hanging chads anyone?

Sounds like someone needs to run for county clerk and get this all straightened up. It's obvious Grandma ain't gonna do it. Besides, she's likely to tell you. "Ken, go sit down. You already voted." JD

Jim Danis
09-25-2012, 07:46 AM
Picture ID's are required for a myriad of things in this country. A drivers license is one of them. Flying is another and on and on. Proving who you are to vote will not deter legal voters. The majority of people in this country favor having to show a picture ID to vote. The percentage is over 70%! The excuse that having to show a picture Id will disenfranchise legal voters is all bunk

HPL
09-25-2012, 09:09 AM
Well, what really gets me is absentee voting by mail. That seems like the real opportunity for fraud.

Golddogs
09-25-2012, 09:23 AM
Picture ID's are required for a myriad of things in this country. A drivers license is one of them. Flying is another and on and on. Proving who you are to vote will not deter legal voters. The majority of people in this country favor having to show a picture ID to vote. The percentage is over 70%! The excuse that having to show a picture Id will disenfranchise legal voters is all bunk


The examples you list are choices people make. Chosing to fly, you must accept certain requirements and abide by them. Banking , driving are also choices.

Voting is a Right and anything done to hinder that Right is slap in the face of the Constitiution.

I suggest that those in favor of restricting a persons Right to vote check out the number of documented cases of voter fraud in the US in the past 20 years. There were no races tipped by voter fraud, and a handful of cases discovered and prosicuted.

This is a red herring, agenda driven push, supported by NO facts. A solution looking for a problem.

And to be clear: the reference to the felons voting in MN, all of those votes were tossed out because of the system currently in place, and not counted.

It would be a breath of fresh air if we could spend time looking for real problems to fix rather than spend so much time and energy on NON-ISSUES.


The Sky is Falling Regards

M&K's Retrievers
09-25-2012, 09:44 AM
.....


The Sky is Falling Regards

Don't look now. It just might be.

Gerry Clinchy
09-25-2012, 10:05 AM
If voting is a right reserved for citizens only, then why is it outrageous to verify that you are a citizen entitled to vote?

We give health care and economic aid to anyone, regardless of their citizenship status because we consider those basic rights to all human beings. However, the right to vote applies only to citizens of the US. If it were not so, we might as well pass out absentee ballots throughout the world and give them all a vote, too.

I also don't think it's so unreasonable either to have basic reading skills ... how do you read the name on the ballot if you do not have basic reading skills? A lot of elections contain votes for proposals of new laws or regulations. How do you vote on those if you don't have basic reading skills? Public education is provided for everyone. We should expect that education to give everyone AT LEAST some basic reading skills. If it doesn't do so, we should fix that!

M&K's Retrievers
09-25-2012, 10:23 AM
If voting is a right reserved for citizens only, then why is it outrageous to verify that you are a citizen entitled to vote?

We give health care and economic aid to anyone, regardless of their citizenship status because we consider those basic rights to all human beings. However, the right to vote applies only to citizens of the US. If it were not so, we might as well pass out absentee ballots throughout the world and give them all a vote, too.

I also don't think it's so unreasonable either to have basic reading skills ... how do you read the name on the ballot if you do not have basic reading skills? A lot of elections contain votes for proposals of new laws or regulations. How do you vote on those if you don't have basic reading skills? Public education is provided for everyone. We should expect that education to give everyone AT LEAST some basic reading skills. If it doesn't do so, we should fix that!

Basic reading skills doesn't go far enough. I'm not a Howard Stern fan but check our his interviews with Obama supporters. Pretty sad.

JimmyD
09-25-2012, 10:52 AM
No voter fraud at my district. At my district NO ID = NO VOTE you're turned away and told to return with picture ID, and your signature better match what they have on file when you sign in to enter the voting booth.

Golddogs
09-25-2012, 11:21 AM
If voting is a right reserved for citizens only, then why is it outrageous to verify that you are a citizen entitled to vote?
!

Not outrageous at all. What is outrageous are the extremes they are going to. It harkens back to the Jim Crow days and poll taxes.

In MN, it is being estimated that it will cost at least 3 million to provide gov issued photo ID to those who do not have it, and an additional 1-1.5 mil per election to manage it. Not to mention all of the local elections. A social Securtity card or Veterans discharge papers will not suffice. Nor will a birth certificate. Only gov issued photo ID. This is going to an extreme for a non-isssue.

And for those of you opposed to more goverment, you should be up in arms over this. This adds another layer of goverment where it is clearly not needed, as well as a substantial cost to the tax payers.

Show me the Fraud Regards

menmon
09-25-2012, 11:56 AM
I bet you wish we would go back to only men voting and then back to only land owners. That would do away with your problem with the women vote and the 47% Romney does not care about since a large percentage of them lost their homes and are renting until they get back on their feet.

menmon
09-25-2012, 11:57 AM
O yea...back to when African Americans couldn't vote, because I don't think you expect many votes from that group either.

huntinman
09-25-2012, 12:19 PM
O yea...back to when African Americans couldn't vote, because I don't think you expect many votes from that group either.

You have to have ID to buy a pack of cigarettes... stop and get a pack on the way to vote.

achiro
09-25-2012, 12:46 PM
Not outrageous at all. What is outrageous are the extremes they are going to. It harkens back to the Jim Crow days and poll taxes.

In MN, it is being estimated that it will cost at least 3 million to provide gov issued photo ID to those who do not have it, and an additional 1-1.5 mil per election to manage it. Not to mention all of the local elections. A social Securtity card or Veterans discharge papers will not suffice. Nor will a birth certificate. Only gov issued photo ID. This is going to an extreme for a non-isssue.

And for those of you opposed to more goverment, you should be up in arms over this. This adds another layer of goverment where it is clearly not needed, as well as a substantial cost to the tax payers.

Show me the Fraud Regards
That's ridiculous. Regardless of the voting laws, there is no good reason not to have a photo ID. Also, I know all the "everyone has a right to vote in this country" crap but if you are such a suck to society that you can't get a photo ID, stay the **** home.

huntinman
09-25-2012, 01:30 PM
That's ridiculous. Regardless of the voting laws, there is no good reason not to have a photo ID. Also, I know all the "everyone has a right to vote in this country" crap but if you are such a suck to society that you can't get a photo ID, stay the **** home.

Exactly! besides... wouldn't one have to have some sort of ID to apply for their welfare, foodstamps, etc...

Franco
09-25-2012, 02:40 PM
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s480x480/198687_452718601438612_1356385519_n.jpg

Gerry Clinchy
09-25-2012, 05:50 PM
I bet you wish we would go back to only men voting and then back to only land owners. That would do away with your problem with the women vote and the 47% Romney does not care about since a large percentage of them lost their homes and are renting until they get back on their feet.

That is simply a ridiculous comment.

Truth is the vast majority of legal voters already have an acceptable photo ID! Only a small portion of legitimate voters do not have it. And many arrangements are being made to help that small portion of the population get one.

The only difference is now the vast majority will be showing that photo ID they ALREADY have when they go to vote, and signing the book.

murral stark
09-25-2012, 06:03 PM
That is simply a ridiculous comment.

Truth is the vast majority of legal voters already have an acceptable photo ID! Only a small portion of legitimate voters do not have it. And many arrangements are being made to help that small portion of the population get one.

The only difference is now the vast majority will be showing that photo ID they ALREADY have when they go to vote, and signing the book.

Voting is a constitutional right. Pretty sure there is no where in the constitution that says you must have a government issued photo ID to vote. People cry and complain about infringing on constitutional rights, yet if it is going to get more votes for a chosen candidate as opposed to the candidate somebody else wants, it's ok to step on the constitution.

huntinman
09-25-2012, 06:05 PM
Voting is a constitutional right. Pretty sure there is no where in the constitution that says you must have a government issued photo ID to vote. People cry and complain about infringing on constitutional rights, yet if it is going to get more votes for a chosen candidate as opposed to the candidate somebody else wants, it's ok to step on the constitution.

How can anyone be inept enough to NOT have an ID in todays world?

murral stark
09-25-2012, 06:37 PM
How can anyone be inept enough to NOT have an ID in todays world?

I wasn't talking about somone's ineptitude, I was talking about constitutional rights and no constitutional requirement to have a govt issued photo ID. some people have birth certificates and ss cards and other forms of identification, but not a govt issued photo id.

huntinman
09-25-2012, 07:29 PM
I wasn't talking about somone's ineptitude, I was talking about constitutional rights and no constitutional requirement to have a govt issued photo ID. some people have birth certificates and ss cards and other forms of identification, but not a govt issued photo id.

you suppose they carry those birth certificates around when they cash checks and buy cigarrettes etc?...

coachmo
09-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Murral, I'm not exactly sure what point you were trying to make with your last post but are you saying that since voter id is not included in the Constitution then it is should not be allowed? So much for State's rights! How do we know you are the real Murral Stark? I mean without proper identification you could be someone else. You could really be a girl!

murral stark
09-25-2012, 08:14 PM
Murral, I'm not exactly sure what point you were trying to make with your last post but are you saying that since voter id is not included in the Constitution then it is should not be allowed? So much for State's rights! How do we know you are the real Murral Stark? I mean without proper identification you could be someone else. You could really be a girl!
I'm like Mitt Romney, "you're just going to have to trust me that I am not a girl." So you believe that a state's laws supercede the constitution of the United States? The presidential election is a national election, is it not. Do you want someone trampling your 2nd amendment rights? Or are we now just picking which constitutional rights we want to be left alone? "Don't tread on my speech, or gun rights. But go ahead and make sure those other people have a government ID so they can vote. If they don't have a govt ID they're gonna vote against the guy I want elected, so don't let them vote, to he*& with their constitutional rights."

murral stark
09-25-2012, 08:16 PM
you suppose they carry those birth certificates around when they cash checks and buy cigarrettes etc?...
I always have a copy of my birth certificate with me and my SS card, as well as my work ID and driver's license. Remember that not everybody has a drivers license though. I haven't ever been carded for cigarettes or chew, and since I don't drink, that's not a problem either.

JDogger
09-25-2012, 08:26 PM
Murral, I'm not exactly sure what point you were trying to make with your last post but are you saying that since voter id is not included in the Constitution then it is should not be allowed? So much for State's rights! How do we know you are the real Murral Stark? I mean without proper identification you could be someone else. You could really be a girl!

I believe Chris hopes and believes he has solved the problem of fraudulent or duplicate RTF registrations. If he can do it, surely county clerks can as well

I have no problem with voter photo ID, but I know that in some precincts in my state a current utility bill is all that is required as an ID.

ie; when I take trash to the municipal transfer station.

If you go to a payday loan or rent to own facility they will give you credit on a current utility bill.

Do I believe that all should have a valid photo ID? Of course I do. Here in NM, sometimes refered to as the fourth world, however, many old-time legitimate immigrants do not. What they have is a reciept for property taxes paid, (or in arrears, it happens...), and that is accepted by the county clerk as ID because their names appear on the voter roles and have for as long as they have known them. Gramma knows Gramma as surely as Ken's long dead uncle.
Is our system perfect? NO.
States have the right to implement requirements as they see fit. Some will past muster by the SCOTUS, some will not.

When you consider it though...our cell phones and SSN and ISP has already stripped us of our privacy.

Big Brother regards, JD

coachmo
09-25-2012, 08:34 PM
I was joking about the girl thing. More of a point about identification. I've never mentioned anything about State's rights trumping the Constitution; however, you made the point that voter id is not included in the Constitution which makes you point sorta pointless. How can something that is not protected by the Constitution being enforced by a state be the same as the federal government disregarding our rights that are protected by the Constitution? Please enlighten me.

murral stark
09-25-2012, 09:09 PM
I was joking about the girl thing. More of a point about identification. I've never mentioned anything about State's rights trumping the Constitution; however, you made the point that voter id is not included in the Constitution which makes you point sorta pointless. How can something that is not protected by the Constitution being enforced by a state be the same as the federal government disregarding our rights that are protected by the Constitution? Please enlighten me.
I don't have all that high falootin learnin the rest of you guys do. If voting is a right in the constitution, it's a right. they shouldn't be able to throw this picture id thing in there to suit the needs of one particular party. that would be infringing upon one's constitutional right to vote. State elections should be governed by each individual state. Presidential elections should fall under federal guidelines. Voting is a protected constitutional right, without a side bar that says you have to show a picture of your self to excercise that right. My point was that there is no such provision saying that you have to have a picture ID to vote in the presidential election. the constitution does guarantee your right to vote though.

coachmo
09-25-2012, 09:16 PM
So are you stating that only voter fraud occurs in favor of the democrat party? I don't think anyone on here mentioned that. You skipped over that question I asked don't you think?

huntinman
09-25-2012, 09:24 PM
I don't have all that high falootin learnin the rest of you guys do. If voting is a right in the constitution, it's a right. they shouldn't be able to throw this picture id thing in there to suit the needs of one particular party. that would be infringing upon one's constitutional right to vote. State elections should be governed by each individual state. Presidential elections should fall under federal guidelines. Voting is a protected constitutional right, without a side bar that says you have to show a picture of your self to excercise that right. My point was that there is no such provision saying that you have to have a picture ID to vote in the presidential election. the constitution does guarantee your right to vote though.

Then shouldn't you have to prove you are "you"?

coachmo
09-25-2012, 09:27 PM
Thanks for clearing that up huntinman. I wasn't getting anywhere! Sorry, I meaned I weren't gettin nowhere. How's that Murral?

huntinman
09-25-2012, 09:28 PM
Thanks for clearing that up huntinman. I wasn't getting anywhere!

the lights are on but nobody's home!

murral stark
09-25-2012, 09:37 PM
Then shouldn't you have to prove you are "you"?
If I show you my birth certificate or ss card and I tell you who I am, that should be enough. Whatever happened to somebody's word being their bond? is voter fraud really that prevalent? I don't remember any election where fraudulent votes swayed the election one way or the other. Maybe somebody can show me a documented case of fraud that caused the election to be swayed.

murral stark
09-25-2012, 09:38 PM
Oh I'm home, I just live on the left side of the street. HA HA HA!!!

huntinman
09-25-2012, 09:44 PM
If I show you my birth certificate or ss card and I tell you who I am, that should be enough. Whatever happened to somebody's word being their bond? is voter fraud really that prevalent? I don't remember any election where fraudulent votes swayed the election one way or the other. Maybe somebody can show me a documented case of fraud that caused the election to be swayed.

Been to Minnesota or Washington State lately?

murral stark
09-25-2012, 10:03 PM
went to visit my daughter in MN about a month ago. What election was fraudulent? It wasn't a presidential election.

huntinman
09-25-2012, 10:16 PM
went to visit my daughter in MN about a month ago. What election was fraudulent? It wasn't a presidential election.

You ever hear of a goofy comedian who is now a Dem senator? Whats his name? Franken? read up a little on that one.

Then do a little reading on the election on the current Gov. of Washington State... not her last election, but the first one... Completey stolen...

You really should read more.

You ever hear of a little group called Acorn? Dallas Cowboys football players and the Disney characters were registered in multiple states by these kooks.

JDogger
09-25-2012, 10:23 PM
You ever hear of a goofy comedian who is now a Dem senator? Whats his name? Franken? read up a little on that one.

Then do a little reading on the election on the current Gov. of Washington State... not her last election, but the first one... Completey stolen...

You really should read more.

You ever hear of a little group called Acorn? Dallas Cowboys football players and the Disney characters were registered in multiple states by these kooks.

just bumped you to # 1 again

huntinman
09-25-2012, 10:46 PM
just bumped you to # 1 again

what are you smoking or snorting?

achiro
09-25-2012, 10:52 PM
I still don't understand how anyone argues this. It's a freaking ID card. Read a report that said 4000 illegals were registered to vote in MI. That's not ok. The only rational I can come up with is that the dims continue to fight this because they know that they benefit from the fraud. That's not ok either. It's funny to me how they continue to wrap this up in some sort of constitutional rights issue when that's not what it is...it sure makes for a good story though.

huntinman
09-25-2012, 11:01 PM
I still don't understand how anyone argues this. It's a freaking ID card. Read a report that said 4000 illegals were registered to vote in MI. That's not ok. The only rational I can come up with is that the dims continue to fight this because they know that they benefit from the fraud. That's not ok either. It's funny to me how they continue to wrap this up in some sort of constitutional rights issue when that's not what it is...it sure makes for a good story though.

It's total BS and they know it. But when they have no intellectual honesty to start with, what's the difference?

charly_t
09-25-2012, 11:08 PM
I still don't understand how anyone argues this. It's a freaking ID card. Read a report that said 4000 illegals were registered to vote in MI. That's not ok. The only rational I can come up with is that the dims continue to fight this because they know that they benefit from the fraud. That's not ok either. It's funny to me how they continue to wrap this up in some sort of constitutional rights issue when that's not what it is...it sure makes for a good story though.

Agree 100%. I have been wondering why anyone would fight having a photo ID. Best way to make sure who is who. As far as I can see this in no way keeps people from voting by having to have a photo ID.

Eric Johnson
09-25-2012, 11:21 PM
This is a red herring, agenda driven push, supported by NO facts. A solution looking for a problem.


Perry County Alabama has a history of inventive voting. Every four years or so, the Alabama Attorney General makes the case against this or that election official there. Sometimes they win, sometimes they don't. A few years ago, a case was made against a county election official but....the judge hearing the case was the 1st cousin to the clerk who had been indicted. He didn't feel it appropriate to recuse himself and the clerk was found not guilty in a requested bench trial.

When the US Attorney General looked in on Perry County, the chap investigating the case became so frustrated by the Eric Holder group in Washington that he quit in disgust and wrote a book in which he details case after case of voter fraud.

This last time though really made the case. Uniontown, Perry County, had 125% of the registered voters turn-out for the election. The Perry County Clerk found this not particlularly unusual and offered excuses.

Don't tell people in Alabama that voter fraud doesn't exist.

JDogger
09-25-2012, 11:25 PM
what are you smoking or snorting?

nothing... but my bump put your silliness ahead of the football silliness for a post or two.

Cody Covey
09-25-2012, 11:53 PM
I don't have all that high falootin learnin the rest of you guys do. If voting is a right in the constitution, it's a right. they shouldn't be able to throw this picture id thing in there to suit the needs of one particular party. that would be infringing upon one's constitutional right to vote. State elections should be governed by each individual state. Presidential elections should fall under federal guidelines. Voting is a protected constitutional right, without a side bar that says you have to show a picture of your self to excercise that right. My point was that there is no such provision saying that you have to have a picture ID to vote in the presidential election. the constitution does guarantee your right to vote though.

Go try to buy a gun without ID and see where that gets you.

M&K's Retrievers
09-26-2012, 12:21 AM
I don't have all that high falootin learnin the rest of you guys do. ....

Hmmm......

BonMallari
09-26-2012, 01:04 AM
Go try to buy a gun without ID and see where that gets you.

Cody you bring up a great point...if the most coveted rights and privileges that we enjoy in this country are

1. right to purchase firearms - ID required

2. right to drive a motor vehicle- ID required

3. right to purchase alcoholic beverages -ID required

4. privilege of hunting/fishing -ID required

5. privilege of higher education -ID required

6 .traveling to foreign countries -ID required

7. cashing a check - ID required

along with many others not listed here, but it only makes sense that the most sacred of all rights is the RIGHT to VOTE, after all men/women have died trying to protect our rights to do so..I just cant see how anyone with any common sense can argue against requiring ID to exercise the most sacro sanct of all of our rights...

road kill
09-26-2012, 07:36 AM
When I go to excersise the privilige of voting, I PROUDLY offer my photo ID.

The poll workers are always grateful and state so.

What are you hiding????????

Golddogs
09-26-2012, 10:45 AM
Perry County Alabama has a history of inventive voting. One county in Alabama.

the case was the 1st cousin to the clerk who had been indicted. He didn't feel it appropriate to recuse himself and the clerk was found not guilty in a requested bench trial. Same county in Alabama.

When the US Attorney General looked in on Perry County, the chap investigating the case became so frustrated by the Eric Holder group in Washington that he quit in disgust and wrote a book in which he details case after case of voter fraud. Perry County, Alabama

This last time though really made the case. Uniontown, Perry County, had 125% of the registered voters turn-out for the election. The Perry County Clerk found this not particlularly unusual and offered excuses.

Don't tell people in( Perry County ) Alabama that voter fraud doesn't exist.

One county, by your account, steeped in a history of fraud and good old boyism, does not mean your entire State is a hot bed of corruption and dishonorable people. So...............Show us the widespread fraud and how it has skewed elections in the great State of Alabama. Or better yet, take it Nationwide. Then do a cost break down on what the cost per documented and prosecuted casse of fraud is and how it altered any election.

In the past 20 years, I suggest none will be found. So where is the burning need to fix something that isn't broken? Adding more cost to the taxpayer and solving nothing.

This is an agenda driven attempt to disinfranchise a segment of the population, many of whom our of out greatest generation.
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/992604/396/Some-concerned-what-voter-ID-means-for-elderly

Much ado about nothing Regards

Golddogs
09-26-2012, 10:59 AM
Cody you bring up a great point...if the most coveted rights and privileges that we enjoy in this country are

1. right to purchase firearms - ID required

2. right to drive a motor vehicle- ID required

3. right to purchase alcoholic beverages -ID required

4. privilege of hunting/fishing -ID required

5. privilege of higher education -ID required

6 .traveling to foreign countries -ID required

7. cashing a check - ID required

along with many others not listed here, but it only makes sense that the most sacred of all rights is the RIGHT to VOTE, after all men/women have died trying to protect our rights to do so..I just cant see how anyone with any common sense can argue against requiring ID to exercise the most sacro sanct of all of our rights...

With all respect Bon, the only Right,s on your list are the right to bear arms, and to purchase alcohol. All other listed are privleges.

And I would venture that abuses of those two rights occur with great regularity, and there is the matter of the public safety involved, and these are choices not evey citizen makes for themselves, because they do not affect their lives on a daly basis as our polititions do.

And FYI, I do not disagree that some form of ID should be required to register to vote: but not accepting a SS card, discharge papers or birth certicicate, even your goverment assistance card if it comes to that, is extreme.. They should be enough and we do not need to suppply govement issued phot ID at the taxpayers expense.

huntinman
09-26-2012, 11:03 AM
With all respect Bon, the only Right,s on your list are the right to bear arms, and to purchase alcohol. All other listed are privleges.

And I would venture that abuses of those two rights occur with great regularity, and there is the matter of the public safety involved, and these are choices not evey citizen makes for themselves, because they do not affect their lives on a daly basis as our polititions do.

And FYI, I do not disagree that some form of ID should be required to register to vote: but not accepting a SS card, discharge papers or birth certicicate, even your goverment assistance card if it comes to that, is extreme.. They should be enough and we do not need to suppply govement issued phot ID at the taxpayers expense.

Nice to see a lib looking out for the taxpayers for a change... you know most (lib) states already want to give illegals drivers licenses.... there is the picture ID right there... problem solved.

ARay11
09-26-2012, 11:05 AM
If I show you my birth certificate (identification) or ss card (identification) and I tell you who I am, that should be enough. Whatever happened to somebody's word being their bond? is voter fraud really that prevalent? I don't remember any election where fraudulent votes swayed the election one way or the other. Maybe somebody can show me a documented case of fraud that caused the election to be swayed.

Just so I am clear on this: you are okay with requiring voter identification but not okay with requiring voter identification?

mjh345
09-26-2012, 11:19 AM
When this nation was formed a picture ID wouild have required you to bring a portrait.
Nowadays we have photo ID's for health club memberships and other silly frivolous things. Voting is far from frivolous; if you don't/can;t provide an ID to vote then I dont think you should be voting

Golddogs
09-26-2012, 11:29 AM
Nice to see a lib looking out for the taxpayers for a change... you know most (lib) states already want to give illegals drivers licenses.... there is the picture ID right there... problem solved.

Bill, assuming I am a Lib, well, you know that assuming makes an ass out of the person doing the assuming.
What I am is a person who can think for himself and does not need to NRC to tell me what I should do with my vote or what I should believe in!

What I find interesting is how so many can ignore common sense, and ditch the "cut goverment", "reduce spending" " less redtape" platitudes when it fits there agenda, as well as mess with the Constitution and our rights as citizens when it suits them.

Original Thougt is a Wonderful Thing Regards or

Don't Wanna Be Sheep Regards ( your choice )

Cody Covey
09-26-2012, 11:41 AM
Bill, assuming I am a Lib, well, you know that assuming makes an ass out of the person doing the assuming.
What I am is a person who can think for himself and does not need to NRC to tell me what I should do with my vote or what I should believe in!

What I find interesting is how so many can ignore common sense, and ditch the "cut goverment", "reduce spending" " less redtape" platitudes when it fits there agenda, as well as mess with the Constitution and our rights as citizens when it suits them.

Original Thougt is a Wonderful Thing Regards or

Don't Wanna Be Sheep Regards ( your choice )

Voter ID doesn't infringe on any of those values. There is no more government involved with saying, "Can I see your ID", and there doesn't have to be an increase in spending, why can't people spend the small amount to get a photo id. In my state, one of the more highly taxed states there is, it is $15 to get a photo id. If you can't save up $15 in 364 days before the next election takes place how are you going to get to the voting booth anyway? Even at $50 in a full year you can't save that up to exercise your right to vote? Redtape? WHere? A little old lady at the booth asking for ID is hardly redtape....

BonMallari
09-26-2012, 11:43 AM
With all respect Bon, the only Right,s on your list are the right to bear arms, and to purchase alcohol. All other listed are privleges.

And I would venture that abuses of those two rights occur with great regularity, and there is the matter of the public safety involved, and these are choices not evey citizen makes for themselves, because they do not affect their lives on a daly basis as our polititions do.

And FYI, I do not disagree that some form of ID should be required to register to vote: but not accepting a SS card, discharge papers or birth certicicate, even your goverment assistance card if it comes to that, is extreme.. They should be enough and we do not need to suppply govement issued phot ID at the taxpayers expense.

Ok I agree that they are privileges

But having gone thru the process of proving that I was a US citizen I can tell you that a birth certificate only proves that someone was born it does not prove its you,neither does a SS card , as for cost, we waste more revenue getting someone welfare cards

huntinman
09-26-2012, 11:57 AM
Bill, assuming I am a Lib, well, you know that assuming makes an ass out of the person doing the assuming.
What I am is a person who can think for himself and does not need to NRC to tell me what I should do with my vote or what I should believe in!

What I find interesting is how so many can ignore common sense, and ditch the "cut goverment", "reduce spending" " less redtape" platitudes when it fits there agenda, as well as mess with the Constitution and our rights as citizens when it suits them.

Original Thougt is a Wonderful Thing Regards or

Don't Wanna Be Sheep Regards ( your choice )

You might not "wanna" be a sheep... but you sound just like one... you are using all the same left wing talking points against id that I see here and elsewhere. Original thought it is not... may not be a sheep, more like braying...

Golddogs
09-26-2012, 12:07 PM
Ok I agree that they are privileges

But having gone thru the process of proving that I was a US citizen I can tell you that a birth certificate only proves that someone was born it does not prove its you,neither does a SS card , as for cost, we waste more revenue getting someone welfare cards


And yet that was all I needed to aquire a Passport. The photo came after.

My point is, if fraud was rampant, and if it was causing elections to be tainited, an arguemant could be made for tighter controls. But that arguemant cannot, in any form or fashion be made. And the cost to cover this is not warrented nor is there a need.

If you present a ss card or bank statement with your name and address, that should be sufficent. And if you are defrauding the election officials, you will be caught. Of course no one had been yet, at least not in our state, but why worry about a small detail like that.


Like most of your stuff Bon: just can't agree with the need for gov issued photo ID to exercise the most important right we have.

helencalif
09-26-2012, 12:11 PM
Well, what really gets me is absentee voting by mail. That seems like the real opportunity for fraud.

We live in a rural county which mails out absentee ballots to those who sign up for them. We have voted absentee for over 10 years because they kept closing voting places. Fraud would be real easy. The ballot arrives in the mail, you fill it out, you sign your signature, and mail it in. I don't think our clerk spends time comparing last year's signature to this year's signature. Most signatures are illegible anyway. Just look at the signatures on checks.

To get an absentee ballot, all you have to do is request one from the county. You can phone them and they will mail you a post card to fill out and request an absentee ballot. This is what we did more than 10 years ago to set up automatic mailings of our absentee ballots. This is a recreation area with lots of summer vacation homes and few permanents. All anyone would have to do is file a name and an address and request an absentee ballot be mailed to the vacation house address. Watch the mail box, fill out the ballot and mail it back. Our county and the county wherein the real voter resides most of the year would never compare voting lists.

If my rural county is like this, I am sure this could happen in other rural counties across the nation.

Golddogs
09-26-2012, 12:15 PM
You might not "wanna" be a sheep... but you sound just like one... you are using all the same left wing talking points against id that I see here and elsewhere. Original thought it is not... may not be a sheep, more like braying...

Bill, they are facts not talking points. The estimated of cost to my state to provide photo ID's is 3+ mil. This is to solve a problem that does not exist, when we are still in a budget crisis. The largest segment of the population w/o current photo ID are the elderly, and they are the ones who will be impacted the most.

A bad idea is bad no matter what side of the aisle it comes from Regards

huntinman
09-26-2012, 12:19 PM
Bill, they are facts not talking points. The estimated of cost to my state to provide photo ID's is 3+ mil. This is to solve a problem that does not exist, when we are still in a budget crisis. The largest segment of the population w/o current photo ID are the elderly, and they are the ones who will be impacted the most.

A bad idea is bad no matter what side of the aisle it comes from Regards

How can there be that many old people with no photo ID? I'm 54. I have many senior citizen relatives. They all have photo id. What gives? Is there a whole population of old people just in your state that does not have ID... sounds like bs to me.

huntinman
09-26-2012, 12:22 PM
We live in a rural county which mails out absentee ballots to those who sign up for them. We have voted absentee for over 10 years because they kept closing voting places. Fraud would be real easy. The ballot arrives in the mail, you fill it out, you sign your signature, and mail it in. I don't think our clerk spends time comparing last year's signature to this year's signature. Most signatures are illegible anyway. Just look at the signatures on checks.

To get an absentee ballot, all you have to do is request one from the county. You can phone them and they will mail you a post card to fill out and request an absentee ballot. This is what we did more than 10 years ago to set up automatic mailings of our absentee ballots. This is a recreation area with lots of summer vacation homes and few permanents. All anyone would have to do is file a name and an address and request an absentee ballot be mailed to the vacation house address. Watch the mail box, fill out the ballot and mail it back. Our county and the county wherein the real voter resides most of the year would never compare voting lists.

If my rural county is like this, I am sure this could happen in other rural counties across the nation.

OR & WA are that way... a hotbed of voter fraud.

Golddogs
09-26-2012, 12:27 PM
How can there be that many old people with no photo ID? I'm 54. I have many senior citizen relatives. They all have photo id. What gives? Is there a whole population of old people just in your state that does not have ID... sounds like bs to me.

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9...ns-for-elderly (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/992604/396/Some-concerned-what-voter-ID-means-for-elderly)

huntinman
09-26-2012, 12:36 PM
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9...ns-for-elderly (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/992604/396/Some-concerned-what-voter-ID-means-for-elderly)

That's pretty overwhelming... a couple of ladies in a nursing home who lost their records...

pat addis
09-26-2012, 12:44 PM
So many, mostly republicans are pushing for voter ID. There is no rule in this country to have a picture ID, but every citizen does have the right to vote. I would consider it a fundamental conservative belief that we should try to limit rule/regs if not necessary and If you are going to require something like this I would think there should be good reason. However there doesn't seem to be any.

http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-look-voter-fraud-little-172327169--election.html

I can see no other real reason to push this except to deter some voters, mainly minority/lower income/urban voters all who tend to be more liberal. If nothing else this is a bad PR move on the part of conservatives.

you must have never heard of chicago, voter fraud was invented there they have more dead people regestered to vote than in
my county my daughter moved there and her first job was to help mayer daley get elected the prectinct leader gave her money to pass out for votes the more times they voted the more they got

duckheads
09-26-2012, 12:56 PM
Bill, they are facts not talking points. The estimated of cost to my state to provide photo ID's is 3+ mil. This is to solve a problem that does not exist, when we are still in a budget crisis. The largest segment of the population w/o current photo ID are the elderly, and they are the ones who will be impacted the most.

A bad idea is bad no matter what side of the aisle it comes from Regards

Voter ID is alive and doing well in Indiana. We are also in very good shape fiscally. I guess it takes a republican Governor and republican controlled congress to make this happen.

Gerry Clinchy
09-26-2012, 01:08 PM
Following on Helen's post. A recent sample of about 1700 registered voters found 31 who voted in both FL and NY in the last Presidential election. Doesn't sound like much, huh? But the duplicate voting was about 1.7%. That could make the difference in a Presidential election ... especially in a swing state like FL.

I'd rather have the govt spend money on protecting the integrity of the voting process than saving the habitat of white squirrels.

In PA the photo IDs are free. Many things are accepted: employer IDs, student IDs, passports, drivers' licenses. I've seen nursing homes bring vans to the pollls with their residents ... they could easily get those people photo IDs. All driver license centers offer the service as well. Here in PA most of those centers are located in shopping malls for convenience.

And, again, we are only talking about those people who don't already have photo IDs. The majority of likely voters already do have a photo ID of some sort.

Eric Johnson
09-26-2012, 02:12 PM
I invite you to read the book....Injustice, Exposing the Racial Agenda of the Obama Justice Department by J Christian Adams.

You said that there was no instance of provable voter fraud. I gave one example of a completely corrupt county so your point is disproven. If you are now going to change the argument, then all I'm going to cite is an entire book. Read it and then come back and try your argument.

As I recall, there were 3 convictions in W Virginia within the past 2 months.

charly_t
09-26-2012, 02:20 PM
When I go to excersise the privilige of voting, I PROUDLY offer my photo ID.

The poll workers are always grateful and state so.

What are you hiding????????

Good point !

murral stark
09-26-2012, 04:05 PM
Any body ever heard of a "fake ID" lot's of kids get them to buy booze. So what does the photo prove? the cost to provide the free IDs is nuts. It's OK to waste that money to make sure some of the population doesn't vote for the "wrong" guy.:p

gmhr1
09-26-2012, 04:11 PM
If you can stop the fraud Obama doesn't have a chance.

ARay11
09-26-2012, 04:26 PM
Any body ever heard of a "fake ID" lot's of kids get them to buy booze. So what does the photo prove? the cost to provide the free IDs is nuts. It's OK to waste that money to make sure some of the population doesn't vote for the "wrong" guy.:p

kids use fake ID's to obtain booze....I don't think there will be a rash of 16 year olds running around trying to buy fake IDs to vote. Sorry. That argument is moot. As I stated earlier... you seem to be just fine with someone asking for your social security card, birth certificate, or proof of residence and yet you object to an ID card. What's the difference? Cost? Seriously? C'mon... you need a better argument. We give away free cell phones with our tax dollars... a $2 ID card should be okay.

murral stark
09-26-2012, 05:10 PM
kids use fake ID's to obtain booze....I don't think there will be a rash of 16 year olds running around trying to buy fake IDs to vote. Sorry. That argument is moot. As I stated earlier... you seem to be just fine with someone asking for your social security card, birth certificate, or proof of residence and yet you object to an ID card. What's the difference? Cost? Seriously? C'mon... you need a better argument. We give away free cell phones with our tax dollars... a $2 ID card should be okay.
what I was trying to say is that a photo ID doesn't prove anything either. If a kid can obtain a fake ID to buy booze, what's to say that the photo presented at the polling place is real. I just think that if someone already has the SS card, birth certificate or proof of residence, that it should be sufficient. why add any more obstacles to them voting? Unless you are trying to suppress the vote of people that more than likely will not vote for the "right" candidate.

ARay11
09-26-2012, 05:36 PM
what I was trying to say is that a photo ID doesn't prove anything either. If a kid can obtain a fake ID to buy booze, what's to say that the photo presented at the polling place is real. I just think that if someone already has the SS card, birth certificate or proof of residence, that it should be sufficient. why add any more obstacles to them voting? Unless you are trying to suppress the vote of people that more than likely will not vote for the "right" candidate.
The SS card, birth cert, and POR are NOT being required now.... or even asked for! So, no, it's not sufficient.

last election... I went to the school to vote. Walked in. Stated my name. little old lady found my name on the list... she said "is this you"... I said "yes" and signed the book... she handed me my ballot.

coachmo
09-26-2012, 05:48 PM
Murral, you are grasping at straws! Do you really believe the stuff you post? Just asking.

murral stark
09-26-2012, 05:49 PM
The SS card, birth cert, and POR are NOT being required now.... or even asked for! So, no, it's not sufficient.

last election... I went to the school to vote. Walked in. Stated my name. little old lady found my name on the list... she said "is this you"... I said "yes" and signed the book... she handed me my ballot.
did you pull out your photo ID, or did you just take your ballot and cast your vote? did it bother you, at that time, that she didn't ask for a photo ID? Apparently it didn't bother you at that time, because you weren't worried that somebody would vote for the "wrong" candidate.:confused:

murral stark
09-26-2012, 05:50 PM
Murral, you are grasping at straws! Do you really believe the stuff you post? Just asking.

I believe my posts probably as much as you believe what you post? do you believe what you post? Just asking.

ARay11
09-26-2012, 06:02 PM
It was my first time to vote. Had no idea how things were supposed to go. It has been much later in my life that I hvae gotten involved in civics.

Yes, it bothered me. It bothered me greatly. It is a huge part of why I do not understand why folks are so anti-ID.

For the record...l did not vote the "party line". Voted my conscience. As I will forever. There is no "right" or "wrong" candidate.

And there's nothing wrong with identification at the poll.

coachmo
09-26-2012, 06:03 PM
You start with arguing against voter id and you use kids using fake id's as a reason or rationale to not enforce voters using picture id's. You really are joking aren't you?

murral stark
09-26-2012, 06:17 PM
You start with arguing against voter id and you use kids using fake id's as a reason or rationale to not enforce voters using picture id's. You really are joking aren't you?
I was just stating that if a kid can get a fake ID. what's to say that somebody couldn't get a fake ID to vote. Do they have the equipment to verify that the ID is valid at the polling place? Or is the person checking off names just going to look at the ID and say ok? If there's a way to get around laws, criminals will figure it out. Honest people, which I believe the vast majority of people that are going to vote are, will be who they say they are. Having an ID or not, will not deter a criminal from voting is what I am trying to say. I just don't understand why people that don't want the govt to be in our lives any more than necessary, want the govt to implement something like this.

Golddogs
09-26-2012, 06:53 PM
I invite you to read the book....Injustice, Exposing the Racial Agenda of the Obama Justice Department by J Christian Adams.

You said that there was no instance of provable voter fraud. I gave one example of a completely corrupt county so your point is disproven. If you are now going to change the argument, then all I'm going to cite is an entire book. Read it and then come back and try your argument.

As I recall, there were 3 convictions in W Virginia within the past 2 months.

My exact words are below in red. In bold is the relevant sentence.

"Or better yet, take it Nationwide. Then do a cost break down on what the cost per documented and prosecuted casse of fraud is and how it altered any election."

Your example of a corrupt Alabama county made no mention af convictions, and if there were, I stand corrected and can see how a corrupt state like Alabama will benefit from much tighter voter ID. I will look for the cases you site in W.Va. It will be interesting to see if they wher prosicuted and what impact tehy had on the elections in question.

Might as well get a micro chip regards

BonMallari
09-26-2012, 07:01 PM
those of you that use the assertion that the cost of implimentation of voter ID is cost prohibitive are being penny wise and pound foolish...

those that argue that its govt intrusion into our lives, may hold some merit, but in today's world it's very hard if not impossible to go thru life undetected...We all have a SS #, unfortunately that is the most fraudulently used # in identity theft

those that argue that there arent enough cases of voter fraud to warrant instituting some sort of system are fooling yourselves..Voter fraud has existed since elections started, but the stakes are higher with each election..

There is a reason that identity theft is so high...it's a multi million dollar business..questionable or fraudulent elections have even more at stake than millions of dollars

Gerry Clinchy
09-26-2012, 08:16 PM
I don't know how many on the forum go to vote in rather small communities, or large cities. Most of my voting life I've been in rather small communities. The people checking off the registry books are local. Many of us may know the people; and they know us. They have the signatures in the book from previous elections so they can see if the sigs match previous ones.

I lived in Philadelphia briefly, just outside Center City. I'll tell you that was VERY different in voting experience. They would NEVER remember if you walked through twice using a different name. I don't remember signing a book back then. It was a long time ago, so maybe they do that now. In a large city there can be a lot more voters at each polling place; and a lot more change of the population from one election to the next. Not at all like Ken Bora's polling place in VT.

Eric Johnson
09-26-2012, 11:16 PM
Also...look for a case in Arkansas in the last month or so. A state representative was "stuffing the ballot box" in his favor as I recall the case. Three folks there were prosecuted and either admitted it or found guilty.

And, I've not even brought up Chicago .... or downstate Ill for that matter.

What you seem to be suggesting is that a case of voter fraud should be prosecuted only if it has national implications.

ARay11
09-27-2012, 11:29 AM
did you pull out your photo ID, or did you just take your ballot and cast your vote? did it bother you, at that time, that she didn't ask for a photo ID? Apparently it didn't bother you at that time, because you weren't worried that somebody would vote for the "wrong" candidate.:confused:

and I still want to know why you would think it's okay to be asked for a ss card, birth cert, or POR but not an ID?

Proof Of Residence = Form of Identification
Social Security Card = Form of Identification
Birth Certificate = Form of Identification
Drivers License = Form of Identification
Military ID = Form of Identification
State issued ID = Form of Identification

what's the difference?

murral stark
09-27-2012, 03:16 PM
and I still want to know why you would think it's okay to be asked for a ss card, birth cert, or POR but not an ID?

Proof Of Residence = Form of Identification
Social Security Card = Form of Identification
Birth Certificate = Form of Identification
Drivers License = Form of Identification
Military ID = Form of Identification
State issued ID = Form of Identification

what's the difference?

Because I already have those and that should be enough. Why should I be required to go get another form of ID to prove what I already have as Identification.

ARay11
09-27-2012, 03:21 PM
Because I already have those and that should be enough. Why should I be required to go get another form of ID to prove what I already have as Identification.

none of it is required now... you're either okay with requiring voter ID (of some form) or not.

Gerry Clinchy
09-27-2012, 03:25 PM
Because I already have those and that should be enough. Why should I be required to go get another form of ID to prove what I already have as Identification.

Murral, if you have a driver's license, you don't need another ID :-) Most states now have photos on their driver's licenses. And it is a wise precaution to have that, I think.

I believe military IDs are also accepted ... basically, almost anything that carries a photo: employer IDs, student IDs (even community colleges use them ... for access to things that are a student "privilege").

We are talking about a relatively small portion of the population: seniors who never had or have given up their driver's licenses; people who don't drive (or work or go to school). States are going to reasonable lengths to make the required IDs available to those who may not have some other such ID they can use.

I just don't see this as an effort to prevent ANYONE from voting, just to preserve the integrity of the whole voting process so that each of us knows that our vote counts; and that nobody usurps anybody else's vote.

huntinman
09-27-2012, 03:26 PM
Because I already have those and that should be enough. Why should I be required to go get another form of ID to prove what I already have as Identification.

You were talking about buying a car. You must have a drivers license, right... what are you whining about?

murral stark
09-27-2012, 04:17 PM
none of it is required now... you're either okay with requiring voter ID (of some form) or not.

I'm fine with some form of ID. I just don't believe that another form of ID should have to be obtained, when you already have proof of your identification with the documents already stated. I hope I cleared that up.

PamK
09-27-2012, 04:18 PM
There are tons of articles that say people are having a hard time getting the required ID in PA.

And for everyone who wrote that you need an ID to buy alcohol and cigarettes that is so not true, yes I am over 29 and look it regards.


HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) A judge weighing whether to stop a new Pennsylvania law requiring voters to show photo identification heard testimony Thursday from people who told of making numerous trips to driver's license centers to confront clerks confused by a bureaucratic maze of IDs, requirements and paperwork.

After being rejected for a photo ID on her fourth trip to a driver's license center, Doris Clark, 68, finally screamed: "I'm handicapped. I've done all I can do and I'm not going to vote."

She told the judge she then threatened to report how she'd been treated, prompting clerks in the Philadelphia center to sit down with her and help her get an ID.

She said the reasons she couldn't get an ID on each visit were varied: She didn't have a birth certificate, a letter from the Social Security Administration was more than 30 days old, or her married name didn't match the name on her birth certificate.

But Clark's story was similar to others Thursday, some of whom received crucial help from people with third-party organizations, including a labor union and a community improvement group in Pittsburgh that had deployed people to driver's license centers to help voters get an ID.

Jessica Hockenbury said she finally got an ID card only after a clerk told her that a voting-only ID card was not being distributed anymore. The complicated rules for getting an ID also became a stumbling block for Lakeisha Pannell because driver's license center clerks had trouble finding her name in the voter registration database, she said.

murral stark
09-27-2012, 04:22 PM
You were talking about buying a car. You must have a drivers license, right... what are you whining about?
I didn't know you had to have a license to drive.:p Not whining about myself personally. I have all of the necessary id to vote. I am just saying that some people that don't have a photo ID, are now being told they have to go get a photo ID, when the already have the current forms of Identification I mentioned above. My question back is. Are those forms of ID I previously mentioned sufficient, or should they have to go get additional ID, above and beyond what they currently have. That is the sticking point for me.

huntinman
09-27-2012, 04:27 PM
I didn't know you had to have a license to drive.:p Not whining about myself personally. I have all of the necessary id to vote. I am just saying that some people that don't have a photo ID, are now being told they have to go get a photo ID, when the already have the current forms of Identification I mentioned above. My question back is. Are those forms of ID I previously mentioned sufficient, or should they have to go get additional ID, above and beyond what they currently have. That is the sticking point for me.

Have what your law requires... here in TN, we have to have a photo ID.... and I'm glad to show it... it's free to anyone that doesn't have one. All they have to do is prove they are a resident of the state to get one. It looks just like the DL.

Eric Johnson
09-27-2012, 04:44 PM
Proof Of Residence = Form of Identification
Social Security Card = Form of Identification
Birth Certificate = Form of Identification


Technically, these three are not a "form of identification" since there's no linkage between the piece of paper and the individual. For instance, a Social Security card merely proves that a person was registered with SS, not which person it was. A person could use another's SS card without any evidence that s/he's the one to which it refers. That's a criminal act but then so is voter fraud.

On the subject of voter fraud...do a search for tunica county MS and voter fraud. Here's one report....

*****
http://www.tunicatimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1176:sowers-guilty-on-ten-voter-fraud-counts&catid=2:paid&Itemid=26

http://tinyurl.com/6dl3zjq

April 21, 2011

After two days of testimony and an hour of deliberation, a Tunica County jury returned a guilty verdict in the case against community activist Lessadolla Sowers.
Sowers was convicted of 10 counts of voter fraud and was sentenced to five years for each count.

-more-

and yet another in MS

http://msbusiness.com/2011/01/last-defendant-sentenced-for-voter-fraud/

http://tinyurl.com/8kml9yk

January 12, 2011

ASHLAND — The last defendant in a Benton County voter fraud case has been sentenced to five years in prison.

Attorney General Jim Hood says in a news release that David Massey of Hickory Flat was indicted on one count of conspiracy to commit voter fraud and three counts of voter fraud.

-more-

BonMallari
09-27-2012, 04:46 PM
How many business owners or management personnel out there have had to certify their employees I-9 form...How many of you have filled out an I-9 form or know what one is...

How many forms of ID are required for the I-9 form

Who is the I-9 form regulated by....


When I was in restaurant management, I had to go to a special class to get certified to be our restaurant's designated I-9 manager...we learned what constitutes a legal form of ID, and what is acceptable and what is not

duckheads
09-27-2012, 08:04 PM
How many business owners or management personnel out there have had to certify their employees I-9 form...How many of you have filled out an I-9 form or know what one is...

How many forms of ID are required for the I-9 form

Who is the I-9 form regulated by....


When I was in restaurant management, I had to go to a special class to get certified to be our restaurant's designated I-9 manager...we learned what constitutes a legal form of ID, and what is acceptable and what is not

1 state issued picture ID and two other forms to prove you are a legal citizen for employment purposes. So you have to show picture id for employment and just about everything else you have to do but not for voting. Oh I know employement is a priviledge not a right. Hogwash!Typical messed up logic that only the left could support. Come on Murral quit following what the left wing extremist are telling you and think for yourself.

murral stark
09-27-2012, 08:13 PM
And I would encourage you to stop following what the right wing extremist are telling you and think for yourself. Why has this never been an issue to vote in the past? why suddenly in this election, is voter fraud such a problem that we are going to have fake people casting votes.

PamK
09-27-2012, 08:28 PM
Oh look I found one, and by golly it is a democrat

ANNAPOLIS, Md. (AP) — A Democratic congressional candidate from Maryland has dropped out of the race after the state party said she had voted in both Maryland and Florida in the 2006 general election and in the 2008 presidential primaries.

Wendy Rosen confirmed to The Associated Press that she was withdrawing from the 1st District congressional race. She did not elaborate beyond a statement citing "personal issues."

The 57-year-old Miami native lives in Cockeysville, Md. She was running against first-term Republican congressman Andy Harris.

A spokesman for the Maryland Democratic Party, Matthew Verghese, says party officials learned Friday night of Rosen's voting record.

State officials say it's too late to take Rosen's name off the ballot. She won her primary race in April by a margin of less than 1 percentage point.

Ken Bora
09-27-2012, 08:34 PM
..........Why has this never been an issue to vote in the past? why suddenly in this election, is voter fraud such a problem that we are going to have fake people casting votes.

um... it has been an issue ever since the White Male Landowner had to show proof of what piece of property he owned and show his tax was paid!!!! It is an issue of one form or another every 4 years since. Nothing new here. And BTW Murral and all. you all are talking in circles. A fricken 3rd world country in smart enought to dip the folks finger in ink! Yet we choose the feller with the finger on the button to wipe out that same 3rd world country on trust! All together now, can you say HUH? And any form of some form of ID for crimminy sake. Even a hunting tag! Hey, I once cashed a check with a hunting tag. my drivers id and trousers were soalked but those old heavy wax paper hunting tags was clean and sharp! Ah my misspent yout.

M&K's Retrievers
09-27-2012, 08:47 PM
Ken, you wouldn't want all those deceased folks from Uvalde, Texas who voted for LBJ to be disenfranchised?

murral stark
09-27-2012, 08:51 PM
um... it has been an issue ever since the White Male Landowner had to show proof of what piece of property he owned and show his tax was paid!!!! It is an issue of one form or another every 4 years since. Nothing new here. And BTW Murral and all. you all are talking in circles. A fricken 3rd world country in smart enought to dip the folks finger in ink! Yet we choose the feller with the finger on the button to wipe out that same 3rd world country on trust! All together now, can you say HUH? And any form of some form of ID for crimminy sake. Even a hunting tag! Hey, I once cashed a check with a hunting tag. my drivers id and trousers were soalked but those old heavy wax paper hunting tags was clean and sharp! Ah my misspent yout.
I guess that I just hadn't noticed in the past elections that voter ID was such an issue. Maybe there's just mor focus on it this time around. I still think whatever ID you currently have should be sufficient to vote.

huntinman
09-27-2012, 10:50 PM
I guess that I just hadn't noticed in the past elections that voter ID was such an issue. Maybe there's just mor focus on it this time around. I still think whatever ID you currently have should be sufficient to vote.

You said yourself that you didn't have a "high falootin education" and you "don't read much"...

maybe you should work on that...

Ken Bora
09-27-2012, 11:07 PM
You said yourself that you didn't have a "high falootin education" and you "don't read much"...

maybe you should work on that...

Murral is like a transition dog just out a yard work. Personaly I think it is cool watching folk become politicaly waken up, waked up, awoken???? Anyway you get the way I'm drifting. And it don't matter the side to me. Just get up off the couch and participate. BTW I told him in a pm he was really a republican and did not know it yet. But reading more and more I was wrong. I am thinking libertairian. Franco, you should give him some stuff to read. for real I do not know the good links.

JDogger
09-27-2012, 11:15 PM
for real I do not know the good links.

Please feel free to insert hilarious smiley emoticons at this juncture...jd

murral stark
09-28-2012, 05:45 PM
Murral is like a transition dog just out a yard work. Personaly I think it is cool watching folk become politicaly waken up, waked up, awoken???? Anyway you get the way I'm drifting. And it don't matter the side to me. Just get up off the couch and participate. BTW I told him in a pm he was really a republican and did not know it yet. But reading more and more I was wrong. I am thinking libertairian. Franco, you should give him some stuff to read. for real I do not know the good links.
I did take a little quiz that Franco sent me a link to. And you are 100% correct Ken, it said I'm a Libertarian.

Franco
09-28-2012, 07:05 PM
Here is a good start for anyone that wants to truly maintain their Liberties. Liberties beyond bumper sticker slogans and politicians just tossing out the word to a crowd during a speech. Beware of the Tea Party too;-)

http://www.lp.org/issues

murral stark
09-28-2012, 09:48 PM
There are two kinds of Tea Partiers," said Benedict. "One kind is so blinded by its hatred of Obama and Democrats that it cannot see fault with Republicans. It's the other kind the Libertarian Party is reaching out to."

I got that from the Libertarian website. that is what I have been trying to say all along. This fits some of our fellow members here like a glove.

charly_t
09-28-2012, 10:11 PM
Murral is like a transition dog just out a yard work. Personaly I think it is cool watching folk become politicaly waken up, waked up, awoken???? Anyway you get the way I'm drifting. And it don't matter the side to me. Just get up off the couch and participate. BTW I told him in a pm he was really a republican and did not know it yet. But reading more and more I was wrong. I am thinking libertairian. Franco, you should give him some stuff to read. for real I do not know the good links.

At times he does seem to have some promise. I hope so.

PamK
09-28-2012, 11:04 PM
Great now the Republicans are doing it

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) What first appeared to be an isolated problem in one Florida county has now spread statewide, with election officials in nine counties informing prosecutors or state election officials about questionable voter registration forms filled out on behalf of the Republican Party of Florida.

State Republican officials already have fired the vendor it had hired to register voters, and took the additional step of filing an election fraud complaint against the company, Strategic Allied Consulting, with state officials. That complaint was handed over Friday to state law-enforcement authorities.

huntinman
09-29-2012, 09:02 AM
Great now the Republicans are doing it

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — What first appeared to be an isolated problem in one Florida county has now spread statewide, with election officials in nine counties informing prosecutors or state election officials about questionable voter registration forms filled out on behalf of the Republican Party of Florida.

State Republican officials already have fired the vendor it had hired to register voters, and took the additional step of filing an election fraud complaint against the company, Strategic Allied Consulting, with state officials. That complaint was handed over Friday to state law-enforcement authorities.

More justification for voter ID laws.

Eric Johnson
09-29-2012, 09:30 AM
The difference is that when the Repubs found that a contracted firm was registering voters improperly, they cancelled the contract and filed a complaint. The Dems would likely have done nothing as it was part of their strategy ... al a ACORN.

PamK
10-02-2012, 10:06 AM
Judge Halts Voter ID Law

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — A judge on Tuesday blocked Pennsylvania's divisive voter identification requirement from going into effect on Election Day, delivering a hard-fought victory to Democrats who said it was a ploy to defeat President Barack Obama and other opponents who said it would prevent the elderly and minorities from voting.

The decision by Commonwealth Court Judge Robert Simpson on the law requiring each voter to show a valid photo ID could be appealed to the state Supreme Court.

However, Simpson based his decision on guidelines given to him days ago by the high court justices, and it could easily be the final word on the law just five weeks before the Nov. 6 election.