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PamK
10-06-2012, 09:10 PM
Sometimes I think they should all be voted out.

Georgia Rep. Paul Broun said in videotaped remarks that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are "lies straight from the pit of hell" meant to convince people that they do not need a savior. Broun, a medical doctor, is running for re-election in November unopposed by Democrats.

Broun also said that he believes the Earth is about 9,000 years old and that it was made in six days. Those beliefs are held by fundamentalist Christians who believe the creation accounts in the Bible to be literally true.

He sits on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Maybe he should sit on a different committee.

JDogger
10-06-2012, 09:19 PM
Sometimes I think they should all be voted out.

Georgia Rep. Paul Broun said in videotaped remarks that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are "lies straight from the pit of hell" meant to convince people that they do not need a savior. Broun, a medical doctor, is running for re-election in November unopposed by Democrats.

Broun also said that he believes the Earth is about 9,000 years old and that it was made in six days. Those beliefs are held by fundamentalist Christians who believe the creation accounts in the Bible to be literally true.

He sits on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Maybe he should sit on a different committee.

I saw this on the news on my home page.

Make it a poll on PP and see what you get... JD

It could be an eye opener...or not.

Matt McKenzie
10-06-2012, 10:56 PM
We have our idiots, too. What can you do?

Pete
10-07-2012, 05:11 AM
I don't know what embryology is,,,but he sounds like a smart man. So the guy actually believes the bible, so do I . I thinks its silly to believe in evolution and I came to that conclusion going through the subject in college. It is a religion unto those who believe it. There is way more proof of God than there is of evolution and the big bang you know. And he is correct about his assumption. Evolution is junk science We need more critical thinkers like him

Pete

Franco
10-07-2012, 07:40 AM
I don't know what embryology is,,,but he sounds like a smart man. So the guy actually believes the bible, so do I . I thinks its silly to believe in evolution and I came to that conclusion going through the subject in college. It is a religion unto those who believe it. There is way more proof of God than there is of evolution and the big bang you know. And he is correct about his assumption. Evolution is junk science We need more critical thinkers like him

Pete

Believe what you wish but don't expect many to take you seriously.

Ken Bora
10-07-2012, 08:51 AM
My Dad’s second wife. A wonderful, learned, deeply religious individual, who was for a time a Jehovahs witness. Before she moved past them. Used to comment about us, the human race. “Only we humans could be so egotistical and filled with self pride to think that a “Day” for God. Was the same mere 24 hours that our ever so tiny speck of a planet takes, to spin once on it’s axis.” And also noted that it was probably impossible for our minds to even grasp a “Day” of Gods. While we readily accept U.S. to metric conversions for weights and volume and Fahrenheit to Celsius for temperature. So many are ROCK SOLID SURE God wears a Timex and has a Labrador retriever calendar on his desk to mark the passing of time EXACTLY as we do here on Earth.
It’s kinda silly, in my opinion.

Franco
10-07-2012, 08:58 AM
What's silly is to deny Natural Sciences. If the Arab and Persian world had more of it they wouldn't be living in the 8th Century.

BonMallari
10-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Believe what you wish but don't expect many to take you seriously.

actually I do take Pete and those that consider themselves believers seriously...

I have been attending a non denomenational church for about six weeks and it has re introduced me to the Christian upbringing that I was raised in...but more importantly it has taught me to be a little more tolerant of people of different faiths and also of those that choose to be either agnostic or atheist

What I cant understand is why people who dont practice or believe in religion cant seem to respect those who do and just move along and let them practice their form of worship...the only exception may be the whack jobs from the Westboro church who are a whole different subject of their own

Down East Labs 217
10-07-2012, 10:09 AM
What's silly is to deny Natural Sciences. If the Arab and Persian world had more of it they wouldn't be living in the 8th Century.

Franco

By your post you do not believe in god. That is your right as mine is to believe in god. Your argument is the same old argument put forth by all non believers.

Believing in god is from the heart. It has nothing to do with science. It can not be proven scientifically nor does it need to be proven. For it is our right to believe in what ever we wish to believe in as is your right to not believe.

What bothers me about non believers (minority) is their use of the law to stop believers (majority) from showing their faith.

Just a rant

Richard

BonMallari
10-07-2012, 10:16 AM
Franco

By your post you do not believe in god. That is your right as mine is to believe in god. Your argument is the same old argument put forth by all non believers.

Believing in God is from the heart. It has nothing to do with science. It can not be proven scientifically nor does it need to be proven. For it is our right to believe in what ever we wish to believe in as is your right to not believe.

What bothers me about non believers (minority) is their use of the law to stop believers (majority) from showing their faith.

Just a rant

Richard

Thank you Richard for saying exactly what the pastor said a few weeks ago

Ken Bora
10-07-2012, 11:05 AM
What's silly is to deny Natural Sciences. If the Arab and Persian world had more of it they wouldn't be living in the 8th Century.
And yet Franco, at one time the Persians were well ahead of the Europeans in mathematics and astronomy. Maybe rivals of the Mayan in their studies of the night sky’s. They truly have allowed a close minded secular minority shape the path of many that follow that particular religion. That said, the point of my small post above, Bon and all. Is that some find a way to be followers of a religion. And practitioners of science. They are not opposite ends of the spectrum. Unless you want them to be. One of the gifts of an all knowing God, is the natural sciences and our never ending quest for the why. While yes some of histories greatest scientists had difficulties with organized religions, in the past. For many, from what I have read. It was not a belief in God issue. But a management in the church issue. All I was offering was simply a point of thought. That yes the story of Genesis could be indeed totally factual as laid out. It is just that a “Day” for God is a wee bit longer than our day.

Franco
10-07-2012, 11:07 AM
Franco

By your post you do not believe in god. That is your right as mine is to believe in god. Your argument is the same old argument put forth by all non believers.

Believing in god is from the heart. It has nothing to do with science. It can not be proven scientifically nor does it need to be proven. For it is our right to believe in what ever we wish to believe in as is your right to not believe.

What bothers me about non believers (minority) is their use of the law to stop believers (majority) from showing their faith.

Just a rant

Richard

I agree. I was responding to the comment that science backs up religion.

And Bon, I would hope the same for the believers respecting the rights on non-believers.

I respect anyones rights to practice whatever religion they wish but, when unfounded arguements are made, I will respond.

From an Albert Einstein letter that sold for 3 million last week...

"
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change this. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them.

"

Nate_C
10-07-2012, 12:45 PM
I have never understood some Christians obsession with interpreting the bible literally. The Lord uses symbolism all the time. We don't have records from Adam or Noah. The book of genesis was written by Moses for his people at the time. Are you telling me their is no chance that since the people at that time would have never been able to understand advanced scientific principles, the Lord through Moses didn't decided to use a parable to describe the creation of the earth rather then a factual account. Just like the Good Samaritan and all of the saviors parables, they weren't real they were symbolic teach aids. How hard would it be to assume that the "Day" is a period and not actual 24 hours. That the Tree of Knowledge wasn't actually a tree but an act/decision that Eve and Adam made. I don't think bible was intended to be the since point of all knowledge for everything. It is intended to define our religious doctrine. I am a devout Christian as well. I look and there is an over whelming amount of scientific evidence and they Lord gave me a brain and wouldn't expect me to reject everything we have come up with.

Terri
10-07-2012, 03:44 PM
If the Arab are so anti science how do you explain the fact that they are drilling for oil? Seems you need a couple science classes to pull that off. As for the Persians they have nuclear plans which also require some science. I think both use religion to control the masses, but if the governing bodies in the middle east believed in God I really think things would be different. Religion can be used for good, but it can also be used for evil. God gives everyone free choice.

Socially I know for a fact that a lot of Iranians are not living in the 8th century.

Terri

charly_t
10-07-2012, 06:05 PM
What always jumps out at me is the bad manners displayed by all sides ( including countries ). Everyone seems to always want to call those who do not believe like they do unkind names. It's one of the biggest reasons that people can not get along with each other. No respect for others and their beliefs. Been married for 50 plus years and I can tell you all that one of the main reasons is we don't resort to name calling and do not show a lack of respect for the other person. My tongue may get bloody when dealing with some people but it's better than bloody noses and hurt feeling. I have always told my children "you can NOT take back hurtful words once you have said them".

Done preachin' now. :-)

Pete
10-10-2012, 12:52 PM
What's silly is to deny Natural Sciences. If the Arab and Persian world had more of it they wouldn't be living in the 8th Century.

What great strides have we made from uncovereding fossils,,,, the abbacus.....(. ,,,,,, none. Only the imaginations which come from man brain from its discovery. All we know is there were plenty of lizzards around and ape and human like creatures. You have no idea what the word says about it,,,only what you hear religious leaders say about it.
Yes I also think its stupid to not believe natural science. However evolution has little to do with natural science because evolution is a is a theory and not a law.

Also the bible is figurative ,symbolic and literal. Without dedication to study it,, it cannot be known which is which. Religions spend to much time studying their doctrines instead of whats written. Sometimes a day is literal,,sometimes symbolic and sometimes figurative. To sit there and tell me you know so much about it without putting in the time to figure it out is like the new guy in the gallery at the junior stake telling me all the ins and outs of running an open.

menmon
10-10-2012, 01:55 PM
Clearly as perfect as our planet and its life is with the exception of man, this is the creation of a god. So for the record I believe in god and creation, and I'm a democrat.

Now as far as evolution goes, it happens everyday, as life adapts or dies due to changes in its environment. Ask a south Texas vegtable farmer how fast insects evolve and become immune to the insecticides the farmers spray on them. This is evolution. Evolution does not contradict creation. Just because something evolves does not mean it didn't have a creator. If you believe in god, you should also believe that the changes happening are from the hand of god.

Just like Obama becoming president was the will of god, and as a good christian you should have accepted gods will as opposed to defying god as you republicans have done. Don't argue this one with me that Obama was not the will of god. Can't have Christ and God when it is convenent.

huntinman
10-10-2012, 02:05 PM
Clearly as perfect as our planet and its life is with the exception of man, this is the creation of a god. So for the record I believe in god and creation, and I'm a democrat.

Now as far as evolution goes, it happens everyday, as life adapts or dies due to changes in its environment. Ask a south Texas vegtable farmer how fast insects evolve and become immune to the insecticides the farmers spray on them. This is evolution. Evolution does not contradict creation. Just because something evolves does not mean it didn't have a creator. If you believe in god, you should also believe that the changes happening are from the hand of god.

Just like Obama becoming president was the will of god, and as a good christian you should have accepted gods will as opposed to defying god as you republicans have done. Don't argue this one with me that Obama was not the will of god. Can't have Christ and God when it is convenent.

If you believe that, then you better believe that it's Gods will that you are gonna be one sad sack on the morning of Nov. 7th. Four More Weeks! How's that for evolution?

ARay11
10-10-2012, 02:09 PM
Clearly as perfect as our planet and its life is with the exception of man, this is the creation of a god. So for the record I believe in god and creation, and I'm a democrat.

Now as far as evolution goes, it happens everyday, as life adapts or dies due to changes in its environment. Ask a south Texas vegtable farmer how fast insects evolve and become immune to the insecticides the farmers spray on them. This is evolution. Evolution does not contradict creation. Just because something evolves does not mean it didn't have a creator. If you believe in god, you should also believe that the changes happening are from the hand of god.

Just like Obama becoming president was the will of god, and as a good christian you should have accepted gods will as opposed to defying god as you republicans have done. Don't argue this one with me that Obama was not the will of god. Can't have Christ and God when it is convenent.

To be clear...
God created man. And, gave him "free will". Obama, Rmoney, GDubya, or Hu Jintao are not necessarily the "Will of God" but the evidence of our "free will".

menmon
10-10-2012, 02:11 PM
If it is the will of God it will happen.....I think the bible says that the meek will inheirit the earth....God has always favored kings that cared about the people not kings that wanted to hang onto their possessions.

huntinman
10-10-2012, 02:15 PM
If it is the will of God it will happen.....I think the bible says that the meek will inheirit the earth....God has always favored kings that cared about the people not kings that wanted to hang onto their possessions.

are you drinking at work again?

menmon
10-10-2012, 02:18 PM
No it is very sobering what the republicans want to do

huntinman
10-10-2012, 02:20 PM
No it is very sobering what the republicans want to do

Get that loser out of the White House? No, that will be liberating.

menmon
10-10-2012, 02:28 PM
Don't have a good enough man for me or God to unseat him. Watch your polls next week and see what happens

Pete
10-10-2012, 02:28 PM
Clearly as perfect as our planet and its life is with the exception of man, this is the creation of a god. So for the record I believe in god and creation, and I'm a democrat
The reason man kind is so screwed up is explained in the word. I never blame God for bad stuff because he has clearly communicated throughout his word where it comes from. I am thankful he has explained how the systems of the world operate.
It is man that has failed not God. God does not break his laws. He is just and cannot lie. when I have failed I know it was my fault and not Gods.
I think the majority of christians are very tolerant and giving including myself. The media always portrays the not so good ones and then things are spun from there. You should know about how the media operates by now Franco. I have learned more about the world and how it operates from the word than I have learned from men. People lie all the time. None of us are perfect.

huntinman
10-10-2012, 02:40 PM
Don't have a good enough man for me or God to unseat him. Watch your polls next week and see what happens

That's the same crap you were talking before the last debate... Your man already got his clock cleaned... he was looking for a way out of there... remember this?

9212

Pete
10-10-2012, 02:41 PM
Now as far as evolution goes, it happens everyday, as life adapts or dies due to changes in its environment. Ask a south Texas vegtable farmer how fast insects evolve and become immune to the insecticides the farmers spray on them. This is evolution. Evolution does not contradict creation. Just because something evolves does not mean it didn't have a creator. If you believe in god, you should also believe that the changes happening are from the hand of god

Thats not the type of evolution that the OP was referring to. The type She was referring to is that things evolve past their own kind (genus) God states "everything after their kind(genus) Man has never even come close to seeing this. You may see sub species but thats due to genetic diversity. Black yellow chocolate or whatever. Certain genes are expressed depending on their environment. Black. chinesees,white we are still the same species and always will be.
The test is in the breeding. A dog will always produce a dog. No matter how many genes we selected for they can still breed back to the wolf. And when you produce a mule they have to be bred back to the horse or the donkey,,,why,,,,because the males are sterile,,,why,,,,,,well its explained in the word(. And natural science backs up the bibles explanation,,,,,cool stuff

menmon
10-10-2012, 02:49 PM
We were not there...we were given a book written by men for god. It does not tell the entire story, so we really don't know how life as we know it happened. We can make the bridge of faith that God created life from this book which I do. But god also gave us a brain and we have moved past the old testiment and trying to understand creation is not sinful. What is sinful is to hate your brother who thinks a little different than you.

huntinman
10-10-2012, 02:52 PM
We were not there...we were given a book written by men for god. It does not tell the entire story, so we really don't know how life as we know it happened. We can make the bridge of faith that God created life from this book which I do. But god also gave some of us a brain and we have moved past the old testiment and trying to understand creation is not sinful. What is sinful is to hate your brother who thinks a little different than you.

fixed it for you;)

menmon
10-10-2012, 02:53 PM
sorry he left you out

huntinman
10-10-2012, 02:54 PM
sorry he left you out

That was too easy, even for you...

Pete
10-10-2012, 03:03 PM
We were not there...we were given a book written by men for god. It does not tell the entire story, so we really don't know how life as we know it happened. We can make the bridge of faith that God created life from this book which I do. But god also gave us a brain and we have moved past the old testiment and trying to understand creation is not sinful. What is sinful is to hate your brother who thinks a little different than you.

Totally agree.
But when science contradicts the bible I research it to find out what might be the problem ,, its either in my understanding or science may have being stretching it a bit. I discovered evolution a farse when it contradicted its own natural laws of science.

BonMallari
10-10-2012, 03:05 PM
Clearly as perfect as our planet and its life is with the exception of man, this is the creation of a god. So for the record I believe in god and creation, and I'm a democrat.

Now as far as evolution goes, it happens everyday, as life adapts or dies due to changes in its environment. Ask a south Texas vegtable farmer how fast insects evolve and become immune to the insecticides the farmers spray on them. This is evolution. Evolution does not contradict creation. Just because something evolves does not mean it didn't have a creator. If you believe in god, you should also believe that the changes happening are from the hand of god.

Just like Obama becoming president was the will of god, and as a good christian you should have accepted gods will as opposed to defying god as you republicans have done. Don't argue this one with me that Obama was not the will of god. Can't have Christ and God when it is convenent.

You and I must go do different Christian churches...because I have never heard the sermon you are preaching

Your deep seated hatred for ALL things Republican is disturbing,comical and contradictory all in one...It gets harder each day to have a sane discussion with you...I don't think I have ever seen a Christian pass judgement on another based on political affiliation..UNTIL NOW

Whats next in your repertoire ? are you going to tell us that D Christians are somehow morally superior to their R counterparts ? While we are on the subject of defying God, would you like to explain how your party can defy God and support the abortion of an unborn child...

BHO was the will of God ? cant wait to run that one by my minister , I hope he still allows me to visit his church after asking that one..

I honestly don't know if I should pray for you or pray that our country is not taken over by those with similar ideas like you...

road kill
10-10-2012, 03:18 PM
Clearly as perfect as our planet and its life is with the exception of man, this is the creation of a god. So for the record I believe in god and creation, and I'm a democrat.

Now as far as evolution goes, it happens everyday, as life adapts or dies due to changes in its environment. Ask a south Texas vegtable farmer how fast insects evolve and become immune to the insecticides the farmers spray on them. This is evolution. Evolution does not contradict creation. Just because something evolves does not mean it didn't have a creator. If you believe in god, you should also believe that the changes happening are from the hand of god.

Just like Obama becoming president was the will of god, and as a good christian you should have accepted gods will as opposed to defying god as you republicans have done. Don't argue this one with me that Obama was not the will of god. Can't have Christ and God when it is convenent.
If you beleive in God as you claim, you do understand that the Devil exists as well, right??

Dustin D
10-10-2012, 03:26 PM
Man has never even come close to seeing this.

and never will b/c it takes millions and billions of years muhahahah

http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5441004_f260.jpg


Some say 'mud to man evolution' is the greatest trick he's ever played.

Interesting...

menmon
10-10-2012, 03:50 PM
You and I must go do different Christian churches...because I have never heard the sermon you are preaching

Your deep seated hatred for ALL things Republican is disturbing,comical and contradictory all in one...It gets harder each day to have a sane discussion with you...I don't think I have ever seen a Christian pass judgement on another based on political affiliation..UNTIL NOW

Whats next in your repertoire ? are you going to tell us that D Christians are somehow morally superior to their R counterparts ? While we are on the subject of defying God, would you like to explain how your party can defy God and support the abortion of an unborn child...

BHO was the will of God ? cant wait to run that one by my minister , I hope he still allows me to visit his church after asking that one..

I honestly don't know if I should pray for you or pray that our country is not taken over by those with similar ideas like you...

You are such a hypocrit. Just because I don't think it is government role to dictate what a women does with her body under her circumstances, I'm not worthy of god. How dare you! I don't like abortion, but it not my role to dictate it. It's god's role to judge not you. This right here is why you will find me most sunday morning out in gods creation instead of sitting next to someone like you. God can judge me for that too, not you!

HPL
10-10-2012, 03:56 PM
I discovered evolution a farse when it contradicted its own natural laws of science.

Well, this has been fairly pointless up to this point, but I would really be interested in seeing this fleshed out.

ARay11
10-10-2012, 04:04 PM
[QUOTE=menmon;1020625]You are such a hypocrit. Just because I don't think it is government role to dictate what a women does with her body under her circumstances, I'm not worthy of god. How dare you! I don't like abortion, but it not my role to dictate it. It's god's role to judge not you. This right here is why you will find me most sunday morning out in gods creation instead of sitting next to someone like you. God can judge me for that too, not you!


I believe that we are to render unto Caesar that which is his....Let Caesar make the laws and collect the taxes.

However, there is nothing that says we have to agree with or support Caesar.
We are also challenged to stand for those unable to stand for themselves.

BonMallari
10-10-2012, 04:05 PM
You are such a hypocrit. Just because I don't think it is government role to dictate what a women does with her body under her circumstances, I'm not worthy of god. How dare you! I don't like abortion, but it not my role to dictate it. It's god's role to judge not you. This right here is why you will find me most sunday morning out in gods creation instead of sitting next to someone like you. God can judge me for that too, not you!

Explain to me where I said you were not worthy of God, heck I am not worthy of God , thats kind of why I am going to church again...at least we agree on two things...abortion and leaving judgement to God not each other...

and I have also learned you dont have to be in a church to be a spiritual person, and it doesnt have to be on Sunday...I attended church on Saturday's as a kid...and now I attend on Wed nights because I am off work and able to make services on a regular basis

Dustin D
10-10-2012, 04:09 PM
I love the Mathematical Odds of MACRO-Evolution.


...consider a very simple putative organism composed of only 200 integrated and functioning parts, and the problem of deriving that organism by this type of process. The system presumably must have started with only one part and then gradually built itself up over many generations into its 200-part organization. The developing organism, at each successive stage, must itself be integrated and functioning in its environment in order to survive until the next stage. Each successive stage, of course, becomes statistically less likely than the preceding one, since it is far easier for a complex system to break down than to build itself up. A four-component integrated system can more easily "mutate" (that is, somehow suddenly change) into a three-component system (or even a four-component non-functioning system) than into a five-component integrated system. If, at any step in the chain, the system mutates "downward," then it is either destroyed altogether or else moves backward, in an evolutionary sense. Therefore, the successful production of a 200-component functioning organism requires, at least, 200 successive, successful such "mutations," each of which is highly unlikely. Even evolutionists recognize that true mutations are very rare, and beneficial mutations are extremely rare—not more than one out of a thousand mutations are beneficial, at the very most.

But let us give the evolutionist the benefit of every consideration. Assume that, at each mutational step, there is equally as much chance for it to be good as bad. Thus, the probability for the success of each mutation is assumed to be one out of two, or one-half. Elementary statistical theory shows that the probability of 200 successive mutations being successful is then ()200, or one chance out of 1060.

The number 1060, if written out, would be "one" followed by sixty "zeros."

In other words, the chance that a 200-component organism could be formed by mutation and natural selection is less than one chance out of a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion! Lest anyone think that a 200-part system is unreasonably complex, it should be noted that even a one-celled plant or animal may have millions of molecular "parts." source
(http://www.icr.org/article/493/)

cool...

menmon
10-10-2012, 04:38 PM
Explain to me where I said you were not worthy of God, heck I am not worthy of God , thats kind of why I am going to church again...at least we agree on two things...abortion and leaving judgement to God not each other...

and I have also learned you dont have to be in a church to be a spiritual person, and it doesnt have to be on Sunday...I attended church on Saturday's as a kid...and now I attend on Wed nights because I am off work and able to make services on a regular basis

This whole tit for tat over right vs left is dividing americans. I think folks are better off if the dems set policy and obviously you think folks are better off if the repub are setting policy. Both sides have their strong suits, but neither has it right. At this point in history, I think a more liberal approach is best, and you disagree. That is totally ok. If your guys wins next month life will go on and mine will change very little as yours, as if my guy wins we will still get up and put our socks on in the morning.

Only real difference in us is that you think making the road easier for the well to do makes your road easier, and I think giving power to the less fortunate make more opportunity for the less fortunate.

You still think that the republican will control spending, and I have lived longer and know that they will just spend on the things that they think are important.

Bottomline I'll be fine who ever gets elected....I just think the working man needs a better bargining position. Those are my roots and they are why I have had the sucess I've had, and I want forget that even if it cost me a few more dollars in tax

ARay11
10-10-2012, 05:50 PM
I think less of an entitlement society is better, you think more entitlements are better.

I think free cell phones are a waste of taxpayer dollars.

You think I am selfish.

I am offended.

BonMallari
10-10-2012, 05:51 PM
This whole tit for tat over right vs left is dividing americans. I think folks are better off if the dems set policy and obviously you think folks are better off if the repub are setting policy. Both sides have their strong suits, but neither has it right. At this point in history, I think a more liberal approach is best, and you disagree. That is totally ok. If your guys wins next month life will go on and mine will change very little as yours, as if my guy wins we will still get up and put our socks on in the morning.

Only real difference in us is that you think making the road easier for the well to do makes your road easier, and I think giving power to the less fortunate make more opportunity for the less fortunate.

our differences are bigger than that,too numerous to mention, and dont mean squat

You still think that the republican will control spending, and I have lived longer and know that they will just spend on the things that they think are important.

We are about the same age

Bottomline I'll be fine who ever gets elected....I just think the working man needs a better bargining position. Those are my roots and they are why I have had the sucess I've had, and I want forget that even if it cost me a few more dollars in tax


............

Franco
10-10-2012, 07:56 PM
One thing for sure, the Christian God may be a Dem or Repub but, he is not a Libertarian.
;-)
We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/396016_10151041878743936_91602187_n.jpg

Dustin D
10-11-2012, 06:57 AM
We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.


1- That's not really possible.

2 - That's a pretty drastic generalization that you are pushing in that picture and in fact it's absolutely false. Not all Scientist in those fields believe what that picture is saying.

Pete
10-11-2012, 01:37 PM
http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/

I can only post a little at time

Franco
10-11-2012, 02:05 PM
I can only post a little at time

Would you have a more credibile site, one that has no religious affiliations?

A federal court, along with the majority of scientific organizations (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/List_of_scientific_societies_rejecting_intelligent _design), including the American Association for the Advancement of Science (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/American_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Scienc e), say the Institute has manufactured the controversy they want to teach by promoting a false perception that evolution is "a theory in crisis",[8] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-slate-7) through incorrectly claiming that it is the subject of wide controversy and debate within the scientific community.[9] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-kitzmiller_pg89-8)[10] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-nejm-9)[11] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-AAAS-10) In 2005, a federal court ruled that the Discovery Institute pursues "demonstrably religious, cultural, and legal missions",[8] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-slate-7)[10] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-nejm-9)[12] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-11) and the institute's manifesto, the Wedge strategy (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Wedge_strategy),[13] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-DI-12) describes a religious goal: to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions".[14] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-wedge_and_response-13)[15] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-14) It was the Federal Court's opinion that intelligent design was merely a redressing of creationism and that, as such, it was not a scientific proposition

And Dustin D, you are incorrect. People can live free and not interfer with others.

HPL
10-11-2012, 02:24 PM
I can only post a little at time

Along with any other problems, they need a copy editor: "During recent decades, new scientific evidence from many scientific disciplines such as cosmology, physics, biology, "artificial intelligence" research, and others have caused scientists to begin questioning Darwinism's central tenet of natural selection and studying the evidence supporting it in greater detail."

"During recent decades, new scientific evidence .................. has ..........."

I would propose this:
"During recent decades, new scientific evidence from many scientific disciplines such as cosmology (are you sure they didn't mean cosmetology, physics, biology, "artificial intelligence" research, and others has caused some scientists to question Darwinism's central tenet of natural selection, and begin studying the evidence supporting it in greater detail."

Of course, these folks have a clear agenda, and I personally don't agree with their point, but might not start laughing quite so soon if they knew how to write.

Pals
10-11-2012, 02:27 PM
Would you have a more credibile site, one that has no religious affiliations?

AAnd Dustin D, you are incorrect. People can live free and not interfer with others.

This used to be true in the US of A.....

Dustin D
10-11-2012, 03:18 PM
And Dustin D, you are incorrect. People can live free and not interfer with others.

But that's not what you said exactly.


the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.


This is just not possible. There has to be a Moral Code guiding the people. If not, you are sure to run into chaos when the way I want to live crosses the way you want to live.

Truth is not relative and neither is Moral Code. There has to be rules and therefore rules will restrict people from doing what they want to do thus making your statement an impossible feat.

Without a Moral Code to follow there will be chaos.

Franco
10-11-2012, 04:30 PM
But that's not what you said exactly.



This is just not possible. There has to be a Moral Code guiding the people. If not, you are sure to run into chaos when the way I want to live crosses the way you want to live.

Truth is not relative and neither is Moral Code. There has to be rules and therefore rules will restrict people from doing what they want to do thus making your statement an impossible feat.

Without a Moral Code to follow there will be chaos.

Only when you take the quote out of context. Read the whole statement, not just the part you underlined!!!

This part...
so long as they do not forcibly interfere with

Pete
10-12-2012, 06:31 PM
Franco
I didn't mean to post up a religious site. I was in a hurry and wasn't paying attention. I am trying to google the law or principle that basically says with the greater the lessor is done away with. I studied about it in college. But I am short on time because of being out of an area and also short on posting time due to computer settings.
I'll work on it and hopefully I can dig it up in cyber space.. Just to remind you,,I am not a religious person. I do change my thinking when I see or understand in depth what is presented,,,but from all I have learned in science (my major in college) evolution in not quite an exact science.
Pete

ppro
10-13-2012, 10:01 AM
If someone that is more learned could expound on Dustin D's mathematical probability about the creation of such a complex organism as man from mere single cell ooze I would be interested. The mere creation of life from non-life is scientifically impossible. There are so many holes in the evolution THEORY that it is comical that so many take it as LAW. That we change or "evolve" does not evolution make. To think that we are so far ahead of all other creatures in the department of critical thinking and in the same breath not acknowledge the possible existence of a being infinitely smarter than humans is egotistical beyond reason. Any educated man must give credence to the theory of a superior being other than ourselves and to think that as impossible proves our limitations in critical thinking. The complexities of all that is natural developing from single cell organisms as evolutionary is a much tougher sell to me than the creation of all that is here from my God. To say that the believe in God is an intellectually wrong theory of our existence in my opinion is wrong. This theory is the best our feeble minds can comprehend. Accept that maybe we are not the smartest and maybe your mind will open to this possibility. Only God could have created such a planet and creatures as this that can "evolve".

Franco
10-13-2012, 10:44 AM
Franco
I didn't mean to post up a religious site. I was in a hurry and wasn't paying attention. I am trying to google the law or principle that basically says with the greater the lessor is done away with. I studied about it in college. But I am short on time because of being out of an area and also short on posting time due to computer settings.
I'll work on it and hopefully I can dig it up in cyber space.. Just to remind you,,I am not a religious person. I do change my thinking when I see or understand in depth what is presented,,,but from all I have learned in science (my major in college) evolution in not quite an exact science.
Pete

Looking forward to reading it.

Do you agree that Earth is 4.5 Billion years old(not a theory) and that Homosapien has been around for 35,000 plus years? Also, that we exsist in a multi-universe?

HPL
10-13-2012, 09:51 PM
Looking forward to reading it.

Do you agree that Earth is 4.5 Billion years old(not a theory) and that Homosapien has been around for 35,000 plus years? Also, that we exsist in a multi-universe?


I for one think I pretty well understand the basic science behind the techniques used to come up with the 4.5 Billion year age of earth and the 35,000 years for homo sapiens (actually I believe that is currently thought to be between 0.5 mil and 200,000 yrs), but just can't wrap my mind around the multi-verse idea.

Franco
10-13-2012, 11:01 PM
I for one think I pretty well understand the basic science behind the techniques used to come up with the 4.5 Billion year age of earth and the 35,000 years for homo sapiens (actually I believe that is currently thought to be between 0.5 mil and 200,000 yrs), but just can't wrap my mind around the multi-verse idea.

Star Trek was way ahead of its time!;)
http://www.the-universe.ie/multi-universe.html

Pete
10-16-2012, 08:49 AM
[QUOTE][Looking forward to reading it.

Do you agree that Earth is 4.5 Billion years old(not a theory) and that Homosapien has been around for 35,000 plus years? Also, that we exsist in a multi-universe?/QUOTE]

I suppose 4.5 could be right but they never figure in that carbon dating is affected by water and argon dating is affected by radiation. Can you post a link that shows that the dna from modern man of 35000 years ago is the same as ours. wolf chiwawa analogy.
I dont know what mutli universe is. But I do know there is a level which exists which science can not measure ,,, which is the spiritual realm. And I have witnessed and clearly measured with my senses for over 30 years. But most people can't wrap their minds around it ,,or try to offer a worldly/scientific explanation.
I love the sciences and the exploration of fossils and such,,,but to think we can explain and know what when on billions of years ago is nothing but a giant ego trip and I am reminded of worshipping the creature instead of the creator.

caryalsobrook
10-16-2012, 09:03 AM
I don't usually get into religious discussion but this seems a good place to ask a simple question.

I have trouble understanding why the theory evolution would in some way deny the existance of a supreme creator, even if it were proved to be law. Nor do I understand why the existance of a supreme creator would in any way deny the theory of evolution. I just can't understand what the hubub is about.?

So if anyone will respond, I will just sit back and listen.:)

Pete
10-16-2012, 09:19 AM
I don't usually get into religious discussion but this seems a good place to ask a simple question.[/COLOR]

I have trouble understanding why the theory evolution would in some way deny the existance of a supreme creator, even if it were proved to be law. Nor do I understand why the existance of a supreme creator would in any way deny the theory of evolution. I just can't understand what the hubub is about.?

So if anyone will respond, I will just sit back and listen.:smile:]

The word of God speak of a time line that does not include evolution. It does speak of cataclysmic events long before modern man arrived which science also agrees with but it gives a different reason for these catastrophes and it calls them something else.. Science has figured out a lot of cool things many of them plainly logged in the bible. For some hebrew guy thousands of years ago to even mention these cataclysmic events I think is remarkable. And to think there is mention of continental plate movement blows me away But Gods time line and mans time line are millions if not billions of years appart. I'll believe the guy that lived through it.
Pete

caryalsobrook
10-16-2012, 09:29 AM
I don't usually get into religious discussion but this seems a good place to ask a simple question.[/COLOR]

I have trouble understanding why the theory evolution would in some way deny the existance of a supreme creator, even if it were proved to be law. Nor do I understand why the existance of a supreme creator would in any way deny the theory of evolution. I just can't understand what the hubub is about.?

So if anyone will respond, I will just sit back and listen.:smile:]

The word of God speak of a time line that does not include evolution. It does speak of cataclysmic events long before modern man arrived which science also agrees with but it gives a different reason for these catastrophes and it calls them something else.. Science has figured out a lot of cool things many of them plainly logged in the bible. For some hebrew guy thousands of years ago to even mention these cataclysmic events I think is remarkable. And to think there is mention of continental plate movement blows me away But Gods time line and mans time line are millions if not billions of years appart. I'll believe the guy that lived through it.
Pete

Now I have done it. another queation. We use a timeline based on our solar syster and a Creator might have a time line based on the universe. Could not man have mininterpreted the Creator's time line making it insignificant? You might say that the Creator speaks to man but could you not reason that there has been a misinterpretation? Just look at the posts on this forum as an example.

Franco
10-16-2012, 09:38 AM
[QUOTE][Looking forward to reading it.

Do you agree that Earth is 4.5 Billion years old(not a theory) and that Homosapien has been around for 35,000 plus years? Also, that we exsist in a multi-universe?/QUOTE]

I suppose 4.5 could be right but they never figure in that carbon dating is affected by water and argon dating is affected by radiation. Can you post a link that shows that the dna from modern man of 35000 years ago is the same as ours. wolf chiwawa analogy.
I dont know what mutli universe is. But I do know there is a level which exists which science can not measure ,,, which is the spiritual realm. And I have witnessed and clearly measured with my senses for over 30 years. But most people can't wrap their minds around it ,,or try to offer a worldly/scientific explanation.
I love the sciences and the exploration of fossils and such,,,but to think we can explain and know what when on billions of years ago is nothing but a giant ego trip and I am reminded of worshipping the creature instead of the creator.

Here is the information you have requested. It also includes a Gene Flow.
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm

I'll just add that believing in any of the world's religions is faith based and not something that can be backed up with Science. And, as Americans, we are all free to believe in what we want. IMO, the religions with origins in the middleeast, like Christianity and Islam are recreations of earlier lower Nile mythology.

HPL
10-16-2012, 10:30 AM
I don't usually get into religious discussion but this seems a good place to ask a simple question.

I have trouble understanding why the theory evolution would in some way deny the existance of a supreme creator, even if it were proved to be law. Nor do I understand why the existance of a supreme creator would in any way deny the theory of evolution. I just can't understand what the hubub is about.?

So if anyone will respond, I will just sit back and listen.:)


It's not that the theory of evolution directly denies the existence of a supreme being, but that fundamentalists believe that the bible is the exact and literal word of God and that God created the world EXACTLY as we see it today with all living things in their current form. There is also the problem that most people that I hear deny evolution don't understand the theory and think that it says that humans descended FROM apes and find it objectionable that anything created in the image of God would be a descendant of an ape.

Pete
10-16-2012, 10:30 AM
Now I have done it. another queation. We use a timeline based on our solar syster and a Creator might have a time line based on the universe. Could not man have mininterpreted the Creator's time line making it insignificant? You might say that the Creator speaks to man but could you not reason that there has been a misinterpretation? Just look at the posts on this forum as an example.


It was mentioned earlier. Time can be either literal or figurative or symbolic. There are over 200 hundred different types of figures of speech in the bible. So lets take the one that says a day for man is like a thousand years for God. That figure of speech emphasizes that God doesn't have a time line because after all he has been around forever. There are many resources that one can study to learn this stuff. But it takes more than a casual stroll through the word. it takes effort and a desire to know Gods will.
Gotta get my butt out the door.
Pete

Pete
10-17-2012, 09:28 AM
Franco I read the link twice and could not find where they match sapien dna with neandrathal or cro magnon How ever they did say "We believe" and we think" and even " if we are correct" quite often. That doesn't seem like sound science to me. As a matter of fact they repeatedly try to sneak in cross breeding. Breeding different species together in their explanation. The oldest homo sapien remains found were 7 thousand years. That close enough to 6 K for me. But they also refer cro magnon and neanderthal as modern. I don't. Modern is sapien,,, all others are ancient. and there is a good reason for that.
I also got off on a tangent and clicked on some of the links and I had an eye opener. The more I look into evolution the more it appears to be on the same plane as globel warming. Like we are going to destroy the earth by farting which was the original claim 25 years ago and now it has EVOLVED into something else.

Sorry I can't produce that law I mentioned. maby my memory is going.
Pete

ARay11
10-17-2012, 03:30 PM
[QUOE=Pete;1022746]Now I have done it. another queation. We use a timeline based on our solar syster and a Creator might have a time line based on the universe. Could not man have mininterpreted the Creator's time line making it insignificant? You might say that the Creator speaks to man but could you not reason that there has been a misinterpretation? Just look at the posts on this forum as an example.

sorta like when I get home from work and immediately get mobbed. "hey mom hey mom hey mom"... and I end up hollerin "JUST GIMME A MINUTE" ... not really lookin for "A measure of time equalling 60 seconds". lol!
It was mentioned earlier. Time can be either literal or figurative or symbolic. There are over 200 hundred different types of figures of speech in the bible. So lets take the one that says a day for man is like a thousand years for God. That figure of speech emphasizes that God doesn't have a time line because after all he has been around forever. There are many resources that one can study to learn this stuff. But it takes more than a casual stroll through the word. it takes effort and a desire to know Gods will.
Gotta get my butt out the door.
Pete[/QUOTE]

Golddogs
10-17-2012, 03:52 PM
I don't usually get into religious discussion but this seems a good place to ask a simple question.

I have trouble understanding why the theory evolution would in some way deny the existance of a supreme creator, even if it were proved to be law. Nor do I understand why the existance of a supreme creator would in any way deny the theory of evolution. I just can't understand what the hubub is about.?

So if anyone will respond, I will just sit back and listen.:)


I had a minister who was way ahead of his time. He believed in evolution. He also believed in God and Jesus. He never felt conflicted,because in his early years, he was exposed to many different beliefs, being the son of missionaries in Indonesia. He felt that Faith was much more important than religion, because religion was a creation of man, and as such, twisted to look at things their way. But Faith requires only the belief that there is something greater than man. This bare bones basic fact is borne out in almost every organised religion, they acknowledge a higher power.

Another novel belief he had was that the Bible was no more than a collection of stories of events that the people of the time could not explain, and a very good read, but could not be taken as fact, but rather anicdote.

One of the most thoughtful and intellegent men I have ever been been lucky enough to know.

Thank you, Dr. Arthur A. Braun, for sharing with me your ideas and experiences and helping me form mine.


T Rex Regards