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PamK
10-08-2012, 11:30 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/06/health/republicans-conflicted-obamacare/index.html?fb_action_ids=4731076440606&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%224731076440606%22%3A2385212 02939956%7D&action_type_map=%7B%224731076440606%22%3A%22og.rec ommends%22%7D&action_ref_map=[]

I wonder if there are enough people switching to change the course of the election.

Key points I didn't copy the entire article.

Jill Thacker was dying for a cup of coffee when she recently ran into a 7-Eleven convenience store. To her pleasant surprise, the coffee was free -- as long as she would commit to drinking it in either a red Mitt Romney cup or a blue Barack Obama cup.

"Which are you going to choose, Mom?" her son asked.

Which, indeed. A gun-owning, big-government-hating Republican, Thacker's every instinct told her to buy a Romney cup. But Thacker, 56, and her daughter have asthma -- a pre-existing condition -- and with Obama as president they'll be guaranteed the ability to buy insurance.

Thacker stood in the 7-Eleven and stared at the red and blue cups, stymied by the choice they represented.
How your vote affects your health care
President defends 'Obamacare'
Perhaps no other election has posed such a difficult personal decision for some conservatives: How do you vote if you're ideologically conservative, but you're benefiting, or stand to benefit, from the Affordable Care Act, often referred to as "Obamacare"?

"In 2008, health care was a very conceptual, a very theoretical issue," said Michael Traugott, a professor of political science and communication at the University of Michigan. "This year it's very concrete and real."

Some Republicans told CNN they would never vote Democrat, even though they might benefit from Obamacare, while others said they will switch their vote because of health issues.

"The real question is: Could defections in this group make a difference in states where the race is close, such as Virginia, Ohio or North Carolina?" Traugott said. "I think in those states it's so tight they could make a difference."

Several groups of people would fare very differently under Romney's health care plan than they do under Obamacare, such as those with preexisting conditions, which can range from anything from back pain to cancer. Between 20% and 50% of all Americans have a preexisting condition, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

Obamacare tells insurance companies they can't say no to people with preexisting conditions, or charge them more because of their health issues. According to his website, Romney's health plan calls for "preventing discrimination" against people with preexisting conditions as long as they've maintained continuous insurance coverage in the past, but does not define what "continuous coverage" means.

Young Republicans could also fare differently under Romney's plan. According to the Department of Health and Human Services, some 3.1 million young adults now have health insurance because of Obamacare, which requires insurance companies to allow young adults to stay on their parents' policies up until the age of 26. Before Obamacare, insurance companies in many states took young people off their parents' policies at age 18 or 19.

luvmylabs23139
10-08-2012, 11:40 AM
Asthma as long as you keep it under control is a non issue when purchasing an individual policy! Ask me how I know. When hubby decided to go out on his own as a consultant we had to do the own insurance thing and I answered honestly about my prior asthma diagnosis. I still came back with the highest rating you can get.

luvmylabs23139
10-08-2012, 11:52 AM
People with bad habits etc should pay more!!!!

gmhr1
10-08-2012, 12:05 PM
Obama used Romneycare as is model. Romney has said there are good parts and not so good. The people voted for it in MA, something we were not allowed to do Obama crammed it down our throats.

PamK
10-08-2012, 12:05 PM
People with bad habits etc should pay more!!!!

Really.

Most preexisting conditions are not caused by bad habits.

luvmylabs23139
10-08-2012, 12:13 PM
Let me ask you a simple question. Do you think fat people who are known to be at higher risk based on their weight should pay more??? I mean anyone can control their weight if they try!

luvmylabs23139
10-08-2012, 12:16 PM
Why would any insurance company charge someone with a known issue the same as someone who maintains good health?
Think about it. Why should a person with a perfect driving record pay the same as one with a bad record?
All insurance is based on risk!
If a person opts to not have insurance when they are low risk why let them beat the system when they become high risk?

Uncle Bill
10-08-2012, 12:18 PM
What I find quizzical is posters like Pam that are sold on the idea that there is a "Romney healthcare" that has been approved by the Congress, and passed on by the SCOTUS, such as Obamacare has. We keep hearing about a 'possible', and jump to the conclusion it's an apples-to-apples comparison, when at best it's hardly an apples-to-oranges comparison.


Romney/Ryan don't have a complete "approved" healthcare program...they have the ideas of the beginning of one they will propose. That idea will be hashed out along Constitutional lines...get studied...and explained before it becomes part of the administrations program to be voted on. It won't HAVE to be passed in order to know what's in that plan...the American people will know BEFORE it's voted on, unlike what happened a couple years ago under the current regime.

Furthermore, who says that some of the ideas from even the Obamacare, or the Mass plan won't be included in whatever gets hammered out and presented to the American public for approval?

Of course you can find the Democrats willing to scare the uninformed and the proletariat into believing what they are foisting onto the voters they want in their camp. That's to be expected in politics. Those that buy into the fabrications and prevarications presented by the left, need to determine why they are being led in that direction. What many think are solutions are smoke screens to gain votes only. Time to position your beliefs on informed knowledge, based on the founding of this nation.

UB

BonMallari
10-08-2012, 12:32 PM
got news for you...we ALL have pre existing conditions..if we didnt you would be perfectly healthy and not need a doctor

all kinds of reason that people vote the way they do..some are logical, some are mind numbing..I have no problem with someone voting a certain way based on long standing beliefs...I am more worried about the fair weather voter who can be swayed by a catchy slogan,or propaganda, or because they want to jump on the bandwagon

ARay11
10-08-2012, 12:58 PM
Perhaps Mrs. Thacker should consider this:
ObamaCare only guarantees her to opportunity to purchase healthcare insurance.... NOT the ability to afford the insurance.

Also,
I think Mr Romney declares his desire to repeal Obamacare...But will he do it? What does it take to get a law repealed? Or will he "modify" it?

huntinman
10-08-2012, 01:24 PM
Death is a pre-existing condition...

PamK
10-08-2012, 01:27 PM
Why would any insurance company charge someone with a known issue the same as someone who maintains good health?

Maybe you are focusing more on things people can control like smoking or eating, but what about someone born with MS, kidney disease, or leukemia?

Those issues have nothing to do with maintaining good health.

luvmylabs23139
10-08-2012, 01:40 PM
Maybe you are focusing more on things people can control like smoking or eating, but what about someone born with MS, kidney disease, or leukemia?

Those issues have nothing to do with maintaining good health.
According to BUMMA a person can just jump on the waggon and no penalty if an issue comes up.
Either buy in when you are healthy or pay the price. There is a reason many of us self employed healthy people actually carry insurance.
Oh and by the way while you wont agree with this I should not have my hard earned money taken from me by the govt to pay for someones brat. ELIMINATE MEDICAID!

mmoe
10-08-2012, 01:57 PM
The state of Mass. boast the best Health care system in America, which was enacted while Romney was Governor. I think Romney would do the same for all America if elected President.

HPL
10-08-2012, 02:20 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/06/health/republicans-conflicted-obamacare/index.html?fb_action_ids=4731076440606&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%224731076440606%22%3A2385212 02939956%7D&action_type_map=%7B%224731076440606%22%3A%22og.rec ommends%22%7D&action_ref_map=[]


Perhaps no other election has posed such a difficult personal decision for some conservatives: How do you vote if you're ideologically conservative, but you're benefiting, or stand to benefit, from the Affordable Care Act, often referred to as "Obamacare"?



I don't really see this as that big a decision. One should vote based on what one believes to be the best long term path for the country, not what is in one's own selfish best interest. Perhaps easy for me to say as I have pretty good health benefits through my wife's employer, but I could certainly benefit from many of the DEM proposed social programs, but see them as bad for the country in the long run, so tend to vote against what many in my economic straits would see as my best interest. Rich or poor, I see more govt. as a problem.

Down East Labs 217
10-08-2012, 03:30 PM
The state of Mass. boast the best Health care system in America, which was enacted while Romney was Governor. I think Romney would do the same for all America if elected President.

Nope you are wrong on this one.

He would require each state to tackle their health care problems. That would mean they (the states) would ask for federal money to enact a program since they do not want to deal with health care and have it screw up their already screwed up budgets.

My opinion

Richard

PamK
10-08-2012, 04:06 PM
According to BUMMA a person can just jump on the waggon and no penalty if an issue comes up.
Either buy in when you are healthy or pay the price. There is a reason many of us self employed healthy people actually carry insurance.
Oh and by the way while you wont agree with this I should not have my hard earned money taken from me by the govt to pay for someones brat. ELIMINATE MEDICAID!

You are fortunate that you are healthy and don't have to worry about this. But there are many parents with sick kids that have a hard time with this issue. Would you prefer that they just let thier kids die? Oh well not your problem? Bad health is not always something that one can plan for.

road kill
10-08-2012, 04:50 PM
You are fortunate that you are healthy and don't have to worry about this. But there are many parents with sick kids that have a hard time with this issue. Would you prefer that they just let thier kids die? Oh well not your problem? Bad health is not always something that one can plan for.
Could you post the statistics on the amount of children that we just "let die" in the last year????
Or even the statistics on the amount of children that we just "let die" over the last 10 years?



Standing by................

Raymond Little
10-08-2012, 04:53 PM
You are fortunate that you are healthy and don't have to worry about this. But there are many parents with sick kids that have a hard time with this issue. Would you prefer that they just let thier kids die? Oh well not your problem? Bad health is not always something that one can plan for.

Another "Straw Man" argument Pam, Medicade will and does take care of those children who can't find private insurance due to pre-existing conditions. My friends son who has max'ed out the families lifetime benefit on private insurance is now on Medicade awaiting a double lung transplant. He is being treated no differently now than when a private carrier was paying the bills. If Medicade was unavailible he would still get treatment for his CF by the generosity of the best folks in the world........................AMERICANS. Nobody's kids have died due to the fact there isn't socialized medicine but plenty will after it is imposed on us.

Susan
10-08-2012, 06:00 PM
from CNN Health:

"A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.

According to "Dying for Coverage," the latest report by Families USA, 72 Americans die each day, 500 Americans die every week and approximately Americans 2,175 die each month, due to lack of health insurance."

--Susan

huntinman
10-08-2012, 06:10 PM
from CNN Health:

"A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.

According to "Dying for Coverage," the latest report by Families USA, 72 Americans die each day, 500 Americans die every week and approximately Americans 2,175 die each month, due to lack of health insurance."

--Susan


Damn, I'm going into the funeral home business...

ARay11
10-08-2012, 06:13 PM
Info RE: Families USA (the national health care consumer advocacy group doing the estimating)

http://www.24thstate.com/2010/07/families-usa-privately-funded-healthcare-propaganda-benefiting-seiu.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Families_USA

not exactly non partisan or unbiased.

**all things with a grain of salt**

BonMallari
10-08-2012, 06:26 PM
You are fortunate that you are healthy and don't have to worry about this. But there are many parents with sick kids that have a hard time with this issue. Would you prefer that they just let thier kids die? Oh well not your problem? Bad health is not always something that one can plan for.


the cold hard truth is that its not my problem, just like my family's health is not your problem...I am a parent but I do not expect anyone else to pick up the tab if a catastrophic illness were to occur

We cant save the world..sooner or later each person has to be accountable for themselves and their own family

HPL
10-08-2012, 06:59 PM
from CNN Health:

"A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.

According to "Dying for Coverage," the latest report by Families USA, 72 Americans die each day, 500 Americans die every week and approximately Americans 2,175 die each month, due to lack of health insurance."

--Susan

Two "minor" things here: 1. they are talking about estimates without anything as to margin of error, etc., and 2. I'd like to see how they came up with those "estimates". With the data readily available to me, I would estimate that no one dies from lack of insurance coverage (that's coming up with that estimate using data about the circle of folks in my family and others with whom I associate (probably not a very representative sample)), and for all we know their estimate may be just a statistically flawed.

achiro
10-08-2012, 07:01 PM
So what you are saying is that Romneys "47%" is a low estimate? More and more people wanting their government to take care of them. Here's my issue with all of it. In Utopia we would all be taken care of and all of our needs would be met. The problem is that this isn't Utopia and somebody has to pay for it. So the choice really is, do we want more of our money going to the gubment for them to decide how it's doled out or do we want to keep our money and decide for ourselves? I think it's better long term for our economy if the government stays out of most of it.

M&K's Retrievers
10-08-2012, 07:07 PM
from CNN Health:

"A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.

According to "Dying for Coverage," the latest report by Families USA, 72 Americans die each day, 500 Americans die every week and approximately Americans 2,175 die each month, due to lack of health insurance."

--Susan

Interesting. Mary Kay Henry, President of SEIU, is on the board of directors of Families USA. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Marvin S
10-08-2012, 07:43 PM
Interesting. Mary Kay Henry, President of SEIU, is on the board of directors of Families USA. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

:) :) :) :) :)

HPL
10-08-2012, 08:09 PM
So what you are saying is that Romneys "47%" is a low estimate? More and more people wanting their government to take care of them. Here's my issue with all of it. In Utopia we would all be taken care of and all of our needs would be met. The problem is that this isn't Utopia and somebody has to pay for it. So the choice really is, do we want more of our money going to the gubment for them to decide how it's doled out or do we want to keep our money and decide for ourselves? I think it's better long term for our economy if the government stays out of most of it.

To whom are you responding?

PamK
10-08-2012, 10:25 PM
How about from Harvard:
Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

Marvin S
10-08-2012, 10:54 PM
How about from Harvard:
Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

Pam - are you a bleeding heart? If you don't have something in place @ 64, whose fault is that? Certainly not those who made wiser choices :confused:.

achiro
10-08-2012, 11:06 PM
How about from Harvard:
Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.
How many people die each year BECAUSE they have health insurance?
How many of those that are referenced would still die with health insurance?
how many of those that are referenced would still not have health insurance under obamacare?
Referencing any study like this to promote an agenda is just silly. There are just to many "what ifs".

HPL
10-08-2012, 11:38 PM
How about from Harvard:
Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

Why the qualifier?

As to the second part, correlation doesn't mean causation. One could easily guess that a very large percentage of those without health insurance have many other factors that are influencing their risk of death. I would be willing to bet (a small sum) that a larger percentage of the uninsured are recreational drug users or alcoholics for instance (both would make it more difficult to hold a job and both also make premature death more likely).

M&K's Retrievers
10-08-2012, 11:53 PM
How many people die each year BECAUSE they have health insurance?
How many of those that are referenced would still die with health insurance?
how many of those that are referenced would still not have health insurance under obamacare?
Referencing any study like this to promote an agenda is just silly. There are just to many "what ifs".


Why the qualifier?

As to the second part, correlation doesn't mean causation. One could easily guess that a very large percentage of those without health insurance have many other factors that are influencing their risk of death. I would be willing to bet (a small sum) that a larger percentage of the uninsured are recreational drug users or alcoholics for instance (both would make it more difficult to hold a job and both also make premature death more likely).



Good points.

Remember, liars figure and figures lie.

caryalsobrook
10-09-2012, 05:44 AM
How about from Harvard:
Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

Pam, I actually wonder if you believe such nonsense. 45,000/year?? Show me ONE news article where someone died because a doctor or healthcare facility DENIED treatment to an individual because of lack of insurance. SHOW ME JUST ONE EXAMPLE of these 45,000 , PLEASE!!! As to good care, someone dies every day for lack of good care, in fact someone dies because of good care AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INSURANCE. Let me clear up a minor point. The gov. or insurance has never treated a patient. DOCTORS TREAT PATIENTS FOR YOUR INFORMATION.

Jamee Strange
10-09-2012, 06:08 AM
Let me ask you a simple question. Do you think fat people who are known to be at higher risk based on their weight should pay more??? I mean anyone can control their weight if they try!

This is my first time looking at the POTUS place on the forum and I saw this comment and decided to post.

First of all, let me say I am NOT NOT NOT a fan of Obamacare. However, this post caught my eye and quite frankly kind of got my "hackles up". Not everyone who is "fat" can control their weight. There are various medical conditions that can cause obesity that have absolutely nothing to do with diet and exercise. One of my good friends in college was a VERY large guy. He actually ate pretty well and healthy with healthy portion sizes. Because of his size, he was not able to do much exercising other than walking. He was always a bigger guy and never really knew why. He became very ill with meningitis and when he was sent in for a CT scan because he suffered a brain bleed, they found that he had a tumor in his brain that causes and condition known as "Cushing's disease". This turned out to be the cause of his weight issues. So like I said, not everyone can control their weight if they try, like you pointed out....

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 09:44 AM
from CNN Health:

"A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.

According to "Dying for Coverage," the latest report by Families USA, 72 Americans die each day, 500 Americans die every week and approximately Americans 2,175 die each month, due to lack of health insurance."

--Susan

Do you know anything about what happens under gov't controlled medicine such as the UK? I can tell you that had my grandmother been in the US she may have survived her heart attack but was simply placed in a ward no ICU and left to die. Say what you want but that is the cold harsh fact.

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 09:58 AM
How about from Harvard:
Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

Maybe those people should make better choices. Simple to see some examples and we all know them. The person that has an $800 car payment yet fails to carry health insurance.
I'm tired of bleeding heart liberals refusing to hold people responsible for their personal choices.
Some people just refuse to be responsible. Let me give you a factual example. I was the payroll and HR manager for a company that had 100% employer paid family medical. With that great benefit some employees were either totally lazy, stupid, or whatever that they did not bother to attempt to add a newborn to their coverage. This did not cost them a dime but rather 5 minutes to grab a form and fill it out within 30 days of birth and turn it in. 95% of our employees were male so it's not like they were on leave. You have no idea how many were running around the shop handing out cigars but ignored the insurance issue.

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 10:26 AM
This is my first time looking at the POTUS place on the forum and I saw this comment and decided to post.

First of all, let me say I am NOT NOT NOT a fan of Obamacare. However, this post caught my eye and quite frankly kind of got my "hackles up". Not everyone who is "fat" can control their weight. There are various medical conditions that can cause obesity that have absolutely nothing to do with diet and exercise. One of my good friends in college was a VERY large guy. He actually ate pretty well and healthy with healthy portion sizes. Because of his size, he was not able to do much exercising other than walking. He was always a bigger guy and never really knew why. He became very ill with meningitis and when he was sent in for a CT scan because he suffered a brain bleed, they found that he had a tumor in his brain that causes and condition known as "Cushing's disease". This turned out to be the cause of his weight issues. So like I said, not everyone can control their weight if they try, like you pointed out....

I will concede that point based on nothing else than making this dog related my Piper's weight could not be controled until he was diagnosed with low thyroid. Even on meds he still gets less in a day than some of the others get at one meal. I feed 2X's per day. So that being said let me rephrase and say that the majority of obese people can simply do something about the issue with a bit of effort.

menmon
10-09-2012, 11:48 AM
Pam you bring up a very good point.

Folks need to look at this for what is best for them instead of this ideology that the republicans are going to balance the budget, reduce the national debt and do this by cutting out wellfare. Never has happened nor will it happen. So vote for the guy that wants to make healthcare more available. If you are old or getting old, do you want someone in there that wants to cut the programs for the older folks so they can keep giving money to the pentagon. Do you want someone in the whitehouse that wants to do away with the safety nets for the working class folks. It is easy to say you don't need this stuff now but as we get older and life changes our situation, these safety nets become important.

gmhr1
10-09-2012, 12:19 PM
Obama is to sneaky what hes doing do medicare is horible and that will affect all of us in time. They say under Obamacare it will be worse than medicaid you wont even be able to find a Dr. He has take 716 million out to pay obamacare and thats a fact .

HPL
10-09-2012, 12:29 PM
Pam you bring up a very good point.

Folks need to look at this for what is best for them instead of this ideology that the republicans are going to balance the budget, reduce the national debt and do this by cutting out wellfare. Never has happened nor will it happen. So vote for the guy that wants to make healthcare more available. If you are old or getting old, do you want someone in there that wants to cut the programs for the older folks so they can keep giving money to the pentagon. Do you want someone in the whitehouse that wants to do away with the safety nets for the working class folks. It is easy to say you don't need this stuff now but as we get older and life changes our situation, these safety nets become important.

What a venal, shortsighted load of crap. If folks only vote for their own short term best interest, we will surely witness the decline and fall of our society.

That one statement lets me know that you would NOT be welcome to hunt in my blind nor would I have any interest in hunting in yours.

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 12:55 PM
Pam you bring up a very good point.

Folks need to look at this for what is best for them instead of this ideology that the republicans are going to balance the budget, reduce the national debt and do this by cutting out wellfare. Never has happened nor will it happen. So vote for the guy that wants to make healthcare more available. If you are old or getting old, do you want someone in there that wants to cut the programs for the older folks so they can keep giving money to the pentagon. Do you want someone in the whitehouse that wants to do away with the safety nets for the working class folks. It is easy to say you don't need this stuff now but as we get older and life changes our situation, these safety nets become important.

I want someone in office who will get rid of the leaches end of story. I paid into byFORCE medicare and SS.
I do not want anyone getting one dime by based the system like the fool that still gets benefits that is a big baby building his adult crib and yet the fools say ok.
I want someone who will chop the leaches and their spawn off at the butt. YOU bred it then deal with it!!!
I don't want one dime of my hard earned money going to some fools kid they should have pulled the plug on but they decided to pop it out in a wading pool with a fool in charge etc and want me to feel bad.

PamK
10-09-2012, 01:12 PM
the cold hard truth is that its not my problem, just like my family's health is not your problem...I am a parent but I do not expect anyone else to pick up the tab if a catastrophic illness were to occur

We cant save the world..sooner or later each person has to be accountable for themselves and their own family

In a union bashing thread you posted something about how instead of everyone getting hours cut equally the people that have worked the longest get the choice pick of shifts. So some people get full week shifts and some people don't get any shifts at all.

So aren't the people that are taking the full week shifts just being responsible for thier own family and responsibilities?

Cody Covey
10-09-2012, 01:59 PM
Pam you bring up a very good point.

Folks need to look at this for what is best for them instead of this ideology that the republicans are going to balance the budget, reduce the national debt and do this by cutting out wellfare. Never has happened nor will it happen. So vote for the guy that wants to make healthcare more available. If you are old or getting old, do you want someone in there that wants to cut the programs for the older folks so they can keep giving money to the pentagon. Do you want someone in the whitehouse that wants to do away with the safety nets for the working class folks. It is easy to say you don't need this stuff now but as we get older and life changes our situation, these safety nets become important.

Gotta love seeing you attempting to TROLL the board with stuff like this haha.

You voting for the guy that has cut medicare spending by almost a trillion dollars and say not to vote for the one that wants to keep it in place.

The trolling is weak with this one...

menmon
10-09-2012, 02:31 PM
Gotta love seeing you attempting to TROLL the board with stuff like this haha.

You voting for the guy that has cut medicare spending by almost a trillion dollars and say not to vote for the one that wants to keep it in place.

The trolling is weak with this one...

He is not cutting medicare a dime. He is reducing what medicare pays to doctors and hospitals as a way of extending the life of medicare. I think he should raise the tax too.

Another lie out of the Romney camp:mad:

menmon
10-09-2012, 02:33 PM
HPL....I wouldn't enjoy hunting with you anyway. It would be like hunting with Glenn Beck;)

huntinman
10-09-2012, 02:48 PM
HPL....I wouldn't enjoy hunting with you anyway. It would be like hunting with Glenn Beck;)

have you ever hunted with Glenn Beck?

HPL
10-09-2012, 03:08 PM
HPL....I wouldn't enjoy hunting with you anyway. It would be like hunting with Glenn Beck;)

HAHAHAHAH!!! Don't think I would enjoy hunting with Beck either, probably wouldn't shut up long enough to let the game come in. Would love to hunt with any of the Bushes thought. Anyone who reads my posts would realize that I don't have much in common with Beck other than I usually vote Republican (sometimes libertarian).

BonMallari
10-09-2012, 03:09 PM
In a union bashing thread you posted something about how instead of everyone getting hours cut equally the people that have worked the longest get the choice pick of shifts. So some people get full week shifts and some people don't get any shifts at all.

So aren't the people that are taking the full week shifts just being responsible for thier own family and responsibilities?

Using that logic does that mean that those of us not working full time are shirking our responsibility to our family

PamK
10-09-2012, 03:40 PM
Big Gaps in Romney's plan for preexsisting conditions

http://news.yahoo.com/big-gaps-romney-plan-pre-existing-conditions-070520547--election.html
WASHINGTON (AP) — Mitt Romney's plan to help people with pre-existing medical conditions: hang on to your health insurance if you want to be protected.

The GOP presidential candidate wants to help those who maintain continuous coverage, a fraction of a much bigger group of people at risk of getting turned down because of medical problems.

Here's the catch: If you had a significant break in coverage, an insurer still could delve into your health care record, looking for anything — from a bad back to high blood pressure — that foreshadows future claims. They'd be able to turn you down.

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 03:53 PM
Big Gaps in Romney's plan for preexsisting conditions

http://news.yahoo.com/big-gaps-romney-plan-pre-existing-conditions-070520547--election.html
WASHINGTON (AP) — Mitt Romney's plan to help people with pre-existing medical conditions: hang on to your health insurance if you want to be protected.

The GOP presidential candidate wants to help those who maintain continuous coverage, a fraction of a much bigger group of people at risk of getting turned down because of medical problems.

Here's the catch: If you had a significant break in coverage, an insurer still could delve into your health care record, looking for anything — from a bad back to high blood pressure — that foreshadows future claims. They'd be able to turn you down.

I have no issue wth that!! One of the main problems with the BUMACES rules were a person could skip having coverage (pay the cheaper penalty) and then get coverage as soon as something happened.

menmon
10-09-2012, 04:19 PM
I have no issue wth that!! One of the main problems with the BUMACES rules were a person could skip having coverage (pay the cheaper penalty) and then get coverage as soon as something happened.

All this paying the penalty stuff apparently is made up...none of the management of companies I bank are talking about this.

Sounds stupid anyway...pay penalty and have no coverage

Or buy insurance and have coverage

limiman12
10-09-2012, 05:01 PM
Really.

Most preexisting conditions are not caused by bad habits.

Diabetes, many types of cancer heart disease etc etc etc are lifestyle effected. Many other pre existing conditions are caused by our own "preventative" medical care. Ie autoimmune disorders....... Children whose parents smoke much higher incidence of asthma..... Most of our healthcare problems personal and in our society are caused by choices made by individuals or our society......

By the way, Good luck getting in to a doctor as a Medicare patient when reimbursements get cut by 30%

limiman12
10-09-2012, 05:04 PM
All this paying the penalty stuff apparently is made up...none of the management of companies I bank are talking about this.

Sounds stupid anyway...pay penalty and have no coverage

Or buy insurance and have coverage


Actually it does make sense, by being able to buy insurance with a pre existing condition, I can not buy insurance while I am young and healthy, risk paying the 600 dollar penalty as opposed to a monthly premium, then buy insurance. When I get diagnosed with cancer. The ability to buy with pre existing is in fact insurance that only costs the penalty fine tax what ever you call it to be able to pay for insurance only when I need it.

limiman12
10-09-2012, 05:09 PM
He is not cutting medicare a dime. He is reducing what medicare pays to doctors and hospitals as a way of extending the life of medicare. I think he should raise the tax too.

Another lie out of the Romney camp:mad:

And you don't think that cutting reimbursement 30% will limit your choices????!

You are very naive if you do not think fewer doctors will participate in Medicare. Medicare already pays about 60 %. Of regular insurance, Cut it thirty percent and see how many doctors opt out.

menmon
10-09-2012, 05:19 PM
And you don't think that cutting reimbursement 30% will limit your choices????!

You are very naive if you do not think fewer doctors will participate in Medicare. Medicare already pays about 60 %. Of regular insurance, Cut it thirty percent and see how many doctors opt out.

They have been changing the medicare and medicade payment structure for years and doctors and hospitals still play. Everytime they say they won't but they do. This is just the first time you have noticed since the republicans are trying to scare old folks into thinking that they can not get medicare. The vouchers is kind of like GW plan to privatize SS...It will fail people.

As for the penalty. Don't you think if folks play this game you are talking about that they will increase the penalty? duh

limiman12
10-09-2012, 05:20 PM
Pam you bring up a very good point.

Folks need to look at this for what is best for them instead of this ideology that the republicans are going to balance the budget, reduce the national debt and do this by cutting out wellfare. Never has happened nor will it happen. So vote for the guy that wants to make healthcare more available. If you are old or getting old, do you want someone in there that wants to cut the programs for the older folks so they can keep giving money to the pentagon. Do you want someone in the whitehouse that wants to do away with the safety nets for the working class folks. It is easy to say you don't need this stuff now but as we get older and life changes our situation, these safety nets become important.

So what safety net has Romney said he would take away...... I think his plan is to actually get them out of the safety net by getting them a job, not getting oping away with the net. In fact a quote that has been twisted was in the repub primaries he said he was not worried about the poor because th was a safety net in place for them......

menmon
10-09-2012, 05:44 PM
So what safety net has Romney said he would take away...... I think his plan is to actually get them out of the safety net by getting them a job, not getting oping away with the net. In fact a quote that has been twisted was in the repub primaries he said he was not worried about the poor because th was a safety net in place for them......

Change medicare to a voucher.


Presidents don't create jobs, so he can promise jobs all he wants but jobs will come when there is need for jobs. No republican president has passed an energy bill yet...even GW couldn't with his republican congress majority.

The problem in this country is not lack of jobs...its lack of jobs people know how to do. People have to retool themselves. I wonder how many folks are working in the oil field for the first time now? Anyway re-training takes time.

That is the reason unemployment benefits were extended so folks could learn how to do other jobs. Don't say that folks are abusing them. The people that don't want to work can't hold a job long enough to get those benefits.

Who benefits from the farm bill the most...the midwest and I'm sure Conagra, Tysons, Cargill and others want them to pass the current farm bill with all its foodstamps too.

huntinman
10-09-2012, 05:50 PM
Change medicare to a voucher.


Presidents don't create jobs.


HaHaHa!!! It took you 4 years to figure that out??

9192

gmhr1
10-09-2012, 06:11 PM
This is what you can look forward to under obamacare. Under Obamacare, soon enough, seniors will be lined up behind welfare mothers in trying to find doctors who will see them, and hospitals that will admit them. These cuts affect seniors already retired today, not just those years into the future. Romney/ryan will not affect anyone over 55 Medicare would provide these seniors with a premium support payment they could use to pay for, or offset, the premium of the private health insurance they chose, providing at least the exact same benefits as Medicare. That premium support payment is set by competitive bidding under rules ensuring it will be enough to pay for at least two of the competing plans providing at least the same benefits as Medicare. Or seniors, even in the future, could just stay in Medicare just like it is today.

starjack
10-09-2012, 06:13 PM
They have been changing the medicare and medicade payment structure for years and doctors and hospitals still play. Everytime they say they won't but they do. This is just the first time you have noticed since the republicans are trying to scare old folks into thinking that they can not get medicare. The vouchers is kind of like GW plan to privatize SS...It will fail people.

As for the penalty. Don't you think if folks play this game you are talking about that they will increase the penalty? duhClass less

caryalsobrook
10-10-2012, 10:31 PM
How about from Harvard:
Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

I asked you previously if you could find even ONE person who had died as a result of a doctor or hospital refusing to treat a patient, dying, as a result of not having insurance. Given you cited 45,000/year, surely you could find at least ONE instance, but evidently you could not.

Now then could you tell me your opinion of those who would put forth such nonsense. Do you still believe their lies or do you just want to propagate their lies?

The question should not be too hard to answer if you are willing to tell the truth.