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Gerry Clinchy
10-08-2012, 10:24 PM
Have been away from the computer for most of the day.

Surprised no one has hit on this topic. What did you think?

Marvin S
10-08-2012, 11:09 PM
Have been away from the computer for most of the day.

Surprised no one has hit on this topic. What did you think?

We as citizens know that very little has worked through several POTUS's - I personally hope RMoney does a job at State that apparently has needed to be done for some time ;-).

Maybe JD with all his inside scoop can tell us what to do :-P.

JDogger
10-09-2012, 12:24 AM
We as citizens know that very little has worked through several POTUS's - I personally hope RMoney does a job at State that apparently has needed to be done for some time ;-).

Maybe JD with all his inside scoop can tell us what to do :-P.

I believe that your refering to the presidential candidate as RMoney tells all as to your postion.
Vote Marvin.
Vote as you believe.
I will.

JD

Franco
10-09-2012, 07:05 AM
I think both the Dem and Repub candidates for POTUS have dangerous ideas when it comes to Foreign Policy! It appears that neither is willing to learn from our past mistakes.

HPL
10-09-2012, 09:20 AM
I think both the Dem and Repub candidates for POTUS have dangerous ideas when it comes to Foreign Policy! It appears that neither is willing to learn from our past mistakes.

It's a dangerous world in which we live. When it comes to foreign policy, almost ANY idea will pose some dangers. I'm no wonk, but I prefer policies that keep our defenses strong.

Franco
10-09-2012, 09:42 AM
It's a dangerous world in which we live. When it comes to foreign policy, almost ANY idea will pose some dangers. I'm no wonk, but I prefer policies that keep our defenses strong.

Defense strong, by all means! A costly interventionist policy that is a no win situtaion in which we hope to convert the middleeast to our way of thinking, no!

Also, there is a huge difference between Defense spending and Military spending.

The way to winning hearts and minds is with leadership, policy and ideas and not at the end of a gun barrell. Our policy over the last 25 years has only grown more terrorism, not decreased it.

huntinman
10-09-2012, 10:00 AM
Defense strong, by all means! A costly interventionist policy that is a no win situtaion in which we hope to convert the middleeast to our way of thinking, no!

Also, there is a huge difference between Defense spending and Military spending.

The way to winning hearts and minds is with leadership, policy and ideas and not at the end of a gun barrell. Our policy over the last 25 years has only grown more terrorism, not decreased it.

Part of the "Blame America First Crowd" Franco??

Terrorists, grow terrorism, not us or our policies. Period.

Franco
10-09-2012, 10:08 AM
Part of the "Blame America First Crowd" Franco??

Terrorists, grow terrorism, not us or our policies. Period.

No, I'm just not living in denial. Our meddling is why we have the situtaion we have today! Two reasons we have been meddling is becuase of mideast oil and Israel. Sell the arms to Israel that it needs and let them handle their situation. Failure to have a real energy policy is why we have been so dependent on mideast oil. All the while making them rich beyond anyone's imagination. Our Forign Policy is so dyfunctional that we still send all of them Foreign Aide!

There is more terrorism today than at anytime in history!

Defend that policy!

mudminnow
10-09-2012, 10:09 AM
I would bet Franco is not a "Blame america first crowd" as much as he is an "America should use common sense first crowd". I will not support a war with Iran and think we should bring all our troops home and station them to protect our borders. It is much easier to feed troops in texas than it is to feed them in Afghanistan. Here is a little video explaining common sense foreign policy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJLMtRt88ZU

huntinman
10-09-2012, 10:12 AM
No, I'm just not living in denial. Our meddling is why we have the situtaion we have today! Two reasons we have been meddling is becuase of mideast oil and Israel. Sell the arms to Israel that it needs and let them handle their situation. Failure to have a real energy policy is why we have been so dependent on mideast oil. All the while making them rich beyond anyones imagination. Our Forign Policy is so dyfunctional that we still send all of them Foreign Aide!

Defend that policy!

We don't force anyone to strap a bomb to themselves and walk into a crowd and blow it up... That is a special form of lunacy that is bred in that part of the worl that has nothing to do with us except that they hate us. If not us... they have proven they will attack anyone available... Britain, France, Spain, each other... hell they don't care.

Franco
10-09-2012, 10:26 AM
We don't force anyone to strap a bomb to themselves and walk into a crowd and blow it up... That is a special form of lunacy that is bred in that part of the worl that has nothing to do with us except that they hate us. If not us... they have proven they will attack anyone available... Britain, France, Spain, each other... hell they don't care.

You are dodging the issue. I want to read where you defend our current mideast policy of the last 25-50 years! Why do they hate us?


Mudminnow, thank you. Good to read someone can thinking independently of the crap the Dems, the Repubs and media feed us!

Time to start considering America first and foremost!

gmhr1
10-09-2012, 10:34 AM
He said what a PRESIDENT needs to say dont spend 70k for a I'm sorry ad and dont blame a video.

HPL
10-09-2012, 10:37 AM
Defense strong, by all means! A costly interventionist policy that is a no win situtaion in which we hope to convert the middleeast to our way of thinking, no!

Also, there is a huge difference between Defense spending and Military spending.

The way to winning hearts and minds is with leadership, policy and ideas and not at the end of a gun barrell. Our policy over the last 25 years has only grown more terrorism, not decreased it.

I can probably agree with most of your post, but do have some doubts about the bolded part. Some of our more reliable friends since WWII were totally broken by us and then occupied for years (and still have large US bases on their soil), so sometimes hearts and minds can START at the end of a gun barrel. Certainly a demonstration of fairness and even kindness needs to accompany that gun barrel, but it can be necessary to get their attention first. That being said, I'd be just as happy if we would either do it like a real war with a maximum effort, crush the enemy, install an army of occupation (as we did in Europe and Japan) or stay out.

huntinman
10-09-2012, 10:54 AM
You are dodging the issue. I want to read where you defend our current mideast policy of the last 25-50 years! Why do they hate us?


Mudminnow, thank you. Good to read someone can thinking independently of the crap the Dems, the Repubs and media feed us!

Time to start considering America first and foremost!

I'm not dodging the issue. You sound like Obama. You are under the false assumption that the cavemen in that part of the world care what we think. You can appease them all you want and all you are going to get is another bomb. The ONLY thing they understand or respect is superior strength.

Who cares WHY they hate us?

Franco
10-09-2012, 11:04 AM
I can probably agree with most of your post, but do have some doubts about the bolded part. Some of our more reliable friends since WWII were totally broken by us and then occupied for years (and still have large US bases on their soil), so sometimes hearts and minds can START at the end of a gun barrel. Certainly a demonstration of fairness and even kindness needs to accompany that gun barrel, but it can be necessary to get their attention first. That being said, I'd be just as happy if we would either do it like a real war with a maximum effort, crush the enemy, install an army of occupation (as we did in Europe and Japan) or stay out.

Different era and different situtaion.

We would just about have to kill all of them, which isn't very practical. Even our one Muslim nation alley is now questioning our policy, Turkey. We have embolden the radicals among the Turks! And, at this point we have crossed the line of ever winning their heats and minds.

We should withdraw our troops form the region. Keep the 7th Fleet in the Mediterrainian and stop interfering. Sell the Isrealis what they need and stop importing Arab and Persian oil!

Franco
10-09-2012, 11:10 AM
I'm not dodging the issue. You sound like Obama. You are under the false assumption that the cavemen in that part of the world care what we think. You can appease them all you want and all you are going to get is another bomb. The ONLY thing they understand or respect is superior strength.



Who cares WHY they hate us?

Not appeasement but, doing what is right for the USA!

Not caring why they hate us is living in denial. We caused the hate because we were meddling in their business instead of minding our own. Our current policy is a no win for the USA!

I suggest we take Thomas Jefferson's advice on Foreign Policy!

mudminnow
10-09-2012, 11:23 AM
Franco, i would have been making huntinmans arguments two years ago, but frankly i got tired of not believing what i was teaching. Anybody who looks at why the terrorists hates us will quickly see they just want us out of their business. The american citizen that was killed without trial by a drone was labeled as a "terrorist" But he only supported terror in the middle east to get us out of there. Does that make him a good guy, no. Should we learn from him. The more isolation we can get from that whole area of the world(including Isreal) will serve us well in the future

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 11:34 AM
I would bet Franco is not a "Blame america first crowd" as much as he is an "America should use common sense first crowd". I will not support a war with Iran and think we should bring all our troops home and station them to protect our borders. It is much easier to feed troops in texas than it is to feed them in Afghanistan. Here is a little video explaining common sense foreign policy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJLMtRt88ZU
I agree we should bring the troops back and put them on the border, but will they be allowed to really defend the border? Not with BUMFACE in charge!!! The troops need to be allowed to defend the border by which I mean if you try to cross illegally you will be shot dead!!!
I'm beyond sick of illegals being kissed and hugged. Maybe I have a different attitude because I know irst hand how hard it is to follow the rules and it makes me sick to my stomach that someone who cheats get sopen welcome! BUMMA should be tried for treason for ignoring the law of the land! I hope that traitor burns in hell!

Franco
10-09-2012, 11:48 AM
]I agree we should bring the troops back and put them on the border, but will they be allowed to really defend the border? Not with BUMFACE in charge!!! The troops need to be allowed to defend the border[/COLOR] by which I mean if you try to cross illegally you will be shot dead!!!
I'm beyond sick of illegals being kissed and hugged. Maybe I have a different attitude because I know irst hand how hard it is to follow the rules and it makes me sick to my stomach that someone who cheats get sopen welcome! BUMMA should be tried for treason for ignoring the law of the land! I hope that traitor burns in hell!

This is what Dr Ron Paul suggested during the Primaries(except for shooting them on site) but, the idea was widely rejected by the Republican voters.

Marvin S
10-09-2012, 11:54 AM
I believe that your refering to the presidential candidate as RMoney tells all as to your postion.
Vote Marvin.
Vote as you believe.
I will.

JD

Just when I act as the straight in this comedy series you disappoint all by not sharing your vast knowledge of all things in Foreign Policy :-P.

menmon
10-09-2012, 11:58 AM
No we don't but we influence what crown they blow theirselves up in. We are not going to change that part of the world and Isreal needs to fight their own battle. It is that simple.

We need to get out of Afganistan and quit pretending that we can change them. My only disappointment with Obama has been that he did not end that war sooner. However, I'm sure he won't put us in another one, but I'm not sure that the favors owed by Romney want put us at war with Iran, and that is another one that can't be won.

We quit meddling in their business and those people wearing vest will leave us alone.

gmhr1
10-09-2012, 12:08 PM
Romney wanted them out NOW Obamas the one keeping them in there

Franco
10-09-2012, 12:17 PM
Romney wanted them out NOW Obamas the one keeping them in there

Not correct! Romney actually wants to keep troops there longer than Obama.


Gov. Romney indicated in an interview with ABC on July 29, 2012, that while he is supportive of President Barack Obama’s Sept 2014 troops withdrawal deadline, he disagrees with the plan to order 23,000 troops out of Afghanistan by Sept. 30.

gmhr1
10-09-2012, 12:21 PM
when bo set his deadline for getting them out Romney said why not get them out tomorrow

gmhr1
10-09-2012, 12:25 PM
Yes he disagreed he doesnt believe in Obama giving a date and time that they would leave. They would be home sooner under Romney than Obama

huntinman
10-09-2012, 12:25 PM
when bo set his deadline for getting them out Romney said why not get them out tomorrow

Right... Just don't be a blithering idiot and give the enemy your time table.

HPL
10-09-2012, 12:36 PM
Different era and different situtaion.

We would just about have to kill all of them, which isn't very practical. Even our one Muslim nation alley is now questioning our policy, Turkey. We have embolden the radicals among the Turks! And, at this point we have crossed the line of ever winning their heats and minds.

We should withdraw our troops form the region. Keep the 7th Fleet in the Mediterrainian and stop interfering. Sell the Isrealis what they need and stop importing Arab and Persian oil!

OK by me.

BonMallari
10-09-2012, 12:51 PM
Different era and different situtaion.

We would just about have to kill all of them, which isn't very practical. Even our one Muslim nation alley is now questioning our policy, Turkey. We have embolden the radicals among the Turks! And, at this point we have crossed the line of ever winning their heats and minds.

We should withdraw our troops form the region. Keep the 7th Fleet in the Mediterrainian and stop interfering. Sell the Isrealis what they need and stop importing Arab and Persian oil!


the 7th Fleet is based out of the Pacific theatre...the 6th Fleet controls the Mediterranean, and the 5th Fleet the Indian Ocean....

I am all for stopping the importation of foreign oil...but until you can get the EPA and the tree huggers to loosen up the drilling and refining restrictions here, that just isnt going to happen

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 01:03 PM
This is what Dr Ron Paul suggested during the Primaries(except for shooting them on site) but, the idea was widely rejected by the Republican voters.

As a first time voter that came here following all of the rules he would have won my vote if he was willing to shoot them. Since he would not take that stand I had to choose the person that could at the very least get BUMMA out.

Franco
10-09-2012, 01:04 PM
the 7th Fleet is based out of the Pacific theatre...the 6th Fleet controls the Mediterranean, and the 5th Fleet the Indian Ocean....

I am all for stopping the importation of foreign oil...but until you can get the EPA and the tree huggers to loosen up the drilling and refining restrictions here, that just isnt going to happen

I should have known better regarding which fleet.

Domestic oil production is at an all time high. In case anyone missed it, the Artic has been opened for production by the USA. Also, add the fact that Brazil's production will be on-line soon and that drilling is going fill bore in the gulf with drilling permits now being issued at an amazing rate, we won't need Arab oil is the near future.

The current problem in the gulf is finding enough experienced workers. Many that went to Aramco during the stopage in the gulf two years ago are back. Much of the fabrication needed for the gulf has to be done in Mexico because of the shortage of welders. From Lousiana to Alaska including Texas, welders are in big demand.

P S

The price at the pump for gasoline has more to do with the global value of the dollar.

luvmylabs23139
10-09-2012, 01:33 PM
No we don't but we influence what crown they blow theirselves up in. We are not going to change that part of the world and Isreal needs to fight their own battle. It is that simple.

We need to get out of Afganistan and quit pretending that we can change them. My only disappointment with Obama has been that he did not end that war sooner. However, I'm sure he won't put us in another one, but I'm not sure that the favors owed by Romney want put us at war with Iran, and that is another one that can't be won.

We quit meddling in their business and those people wearing vest will leave us alone.

When is that crazy you suport going to grow a set and put the troops on our border and defend it with deadly force???? The man kisses illegals asses and lets them break the law. I hope that lunitic at some point is charged with the treason he commits every day! HOw you you defend that BS?????

menmon
10-09-2012, 02:37 PM
See you can't make them all happy...side with one and the others are mad at you. Leave them be is the right course of action.