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View Full Version : Oct 11 - tonight's VP debate. WATCH IT !



helencalif
10-11-2012, 01:52 PM
I hope all here on POTUS have a chance to watch tonight's VP debate. The moderator will be ABC correspondent Martha Raddatz. Her specialty is foreign affairs. No telling if our foreign policy and what is happening right now in the ME will be part of her questioning or not, but it might be.

However, she might spend more time on jobs, the economy, and the national debt.

There are some who say VP debates don't mean anything. Perhaps in the past, but I think this one will mean a lot.

Helen

Franco
10-11-2012, 02:19 PM
I wouldn't miss it even for an NFL game!

Pals
10-11-2012, 02:24 PM
I have looked into my incredibly accurate, and often irritating, crystal ball-- Mr. Tickles predicts:

1. Martha will 'lead' poor Joe when he gets to rambling and talking about chains.
2. Martha will give Ryan the dreaded "look" that the libs are so infamous for.....
3. Martha will inject her "Republicans all suck" bias into the debate.

Anyone care to bet against Mr. Tickles??

HPL
10-11-2012, 02:33 PM
Whereas I think that this debate will have little to no effect on the election, I bet that there will be quite a large viewership, propelled mostly by the same reflex that prompts folks to slow down and look at an automobile accident (morbid curiosity). Can also imagine it providing many opportunities for drinking games.

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 03:15 PM
She might like paul Ryan especially since the pic came out today of him working out! He's alot better to look at than Joe Won't miss this

Goose
10-11-2012, 04:02 PM
What are the odds that Vice President BiteMe utters something stupid enough to really matter?

huntinman
10-11-2012, 04:31 PM
I have looked into my incredibly accurate, and often irritating, crystal ball-- Mr. Tickles predicts:

1. Martha will 'lead' poor Joe when he gets to rambling and talking about chains.
2. Martha will give Ryan the dreaded "look" that the libs are so infamous for.....
3. Martha will inject her "Republicans all suck" bias into the debate.

Anyone care to bet against Mr. Tickles??

In the first 10 minutes or do you think it will take longer??

huntinman
10-11-2012, 08:44 PM
Biden looking like an old drunk with all that grinning, huffing, etc...

Ken Bora
10-11-2012, 08:49 PM
...... The moderator will be ABC correspondent Martha Raddatz. Her specialty is foreign affairs. No telling if our foreign policy and what is happening right now in the ME will be part of her questioning or not,.

Helen


Wow! First question!

Down East Labs 217
10-11-2012, 08:49 PM
Martha is loosing control of the debate. She is not a good moderator.

Richard

Ken Bora
10-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Biden looking like an old drunk with all that grinning, huffing, etc...


he is getting mad now. starting to look like that Jeff Dunham puppet, Walter.


Walter Biden
http://images.tvrage.com/cguide/118/6871.jpg

huntinman
10-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Biden can't stop himself from interrupting.

Ken Bora
10-11-2012, 08:53 PM
Martha is loosing control of the debate. She is not a good moderator.

Richard


Yes, shes gotta reel um both in now

huntinman
10-11-2012, 08:53 PM
he is getting mad now. starting to look like that Jeff Dunham puppet, Walter.


Walter Biden
http://images.tvrage.com/cguide/118/6871.jpg

HaHAHa!!!!!!!

Blackstone
10-11-2012, 09:05 PM
Did anyone notice that Ryan refused to answer the question about whether or not the mortgage interest tax deduction would be reduced or eliminated for Americans making under $50k per year under their plan? This is a concern I expressed earlier.

Joe Dutro
10-11-2012, 09:05 PM
Biden is an idoit. He gets mad and Martha saves him.

huntinman
10-11-2012, 09:12 PM
Biden's drugs are starting to wear off.

huntinman
10-11-2012, 09:29 PM
Biden say's women should should make their own decisions about their bodies regarding abortion. But his party, especially Mrs Obama doesn't think those women are smart enough to feed their kids at school... Or buy a coke in NYC

coachmo
10-11-2012, 09:30 PM
The smartest thing out of biden's mouth is that the next president will appoint 1 or more Supreme Court judges. That's why obama needs to be defeated among other things of course.

Down East Labs 217
10-11-2012, 09:32 PM
Did anyone notice that Ryan refused to answer the question about whether or not the mortgage interest tax deduction would be reduced or eliminated for Americans making under $50k per year under their plan? This is a concern I expressed earlier.

Only a fool would make an exact line in the sand statement.

Richard

Joe Dutro
10-11-2012, 09:33 PM
Don't get me started on school food. I have 3 children who will not buy lunch at school becuse its gross. They use to buy school lunches all the time but not now.

huntinman
10-11-2012, 09:35 PM
Don't get me started on school food. I have 3 children who will not buy lunch at school becuse its gross. They use to buy school lunches all the time but not now.

I saw somewhere that a school is going to use "garbage-cams" to see which kids are throwing the Obama lunch away

coachmo
10-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Can anyone say class warfare?

Down East Labs 217
10-11-2012, 09:38 PM
Biden sure likes to use the statement, My Friend. Very condescending.


Richard

Joe Dutro
10-11-2012, 09:39 PM
My 9 yr old son informed me that if you don't eat everything the teachers stand by the garbage can and will make you go back and sit down and finish all of your lunch. That was when Ty told me he was only packing from now on.

Ken Bora
10-11-2012, 09:47 PM
Did anyone notice that Ryan refused to answer the question about whether or not the mortgage interest tax deduction would be reduced or eliminated for Americans making under $50k per year under their plan? This is a concern I expressed earlier.

Your right,
the kid did side step a couple!
He's got spunk, he's gonna fit right in.
he was a polite young man debating an angry old man.
a boy scout spanking a Grandpa. Maybe that was Bidens plan?
Win by loosing?

huntinman
10-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Your right,
the kid did side step a couple!
He's got spunk, he's gonna fit right in.
he was a polite young man debating an angry old man.
a boy scout spanking a Grandpa. Maybe that was Bidens plan?
Win by loosing?

The rudeness was too much. Ryan won easy. Biden got his points in, but if anyone was scoring this thing Ryan won big.

Towards the end, Biden was even rude to Martha...

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 09:56 PM
This is our VP? a rude snickering snarling yelling disrespectful old man? I dont think so ! and he had the nerve to say Libya didnt ask for security he should have watched and listened to the hearing. Poor obama, now their telling him dont do what biden did and dont do what you did at the last debate he will be so confused

Brad Turner
10-11-2012, 09:58 PM
Biden was rude and angry. The interruptions were over the top. Laughing while Ryan was talking about Iran was absurd and it seemed like he thinks the American people are ignorant to the truth.

coachmo
10-11-2012, 09:58 PM
Flip through the channels and see how much the lame stream media is promoting a big win for biden. They can't be serious! I guess the sheeple just keep on believing everything that is spoon fed to them. God help the rest of us.

Blackstone
10-11-2012, 09:59 PM
The rudeness was too much. Ryan won easy. Biden got his points in, but if anyone was scoring this thing Ryan won big.

Towards the end, Biden was even rude to Martha...

I have to disagree. I think Biden won. I thought Biden made more good points than Ryan. I think he caught Ryan in contridictions. I also think he pushed Ryan for specific answers to questions that Ryan continued to sidestep and refused to answer. I don't think you can win if you avoid the questions.

However, I think Biden should have avoided the laughing. That was rude. I think Ryan's personality came off better. But, this isn't a personality contest (at least it shouldn't be).

huntinman
10-11-2012, 10:01 PM
I have to disagree. I think Biden won. I thought Biden made good points. I think he caught Ryan in contridictions. I also think he pushed Ryan for specific answers to questions that Ryan side stepped and refused to answer. I don't think you can win if you evade the questions.

Somehow I'm not surprised

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 10:04 PM
If you look at who yelled the loudest who was the rudest I would agree biden won if you look at the facts biden lost. I can post alot more from fact checker but whats the use Biden Lied or was confused for much of the whole 90 min.

BIDEN: "What we did is, we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to Medicare."
THE FACTS: Contrary to Biden (http://features.rr.com/topic/Joe_Biden)'s assertion, not all the money cut from Medicare is going back into the program in some other way. The administration is cutting $716 billion over 10 years in Medicare payments to providers and using some of the money to improve benefits under the program. But most of the money is being used to expand health care coverage outside of Medicare.
BIDEN, on whether U.S. should have beefed up security at the U.S. Consulate in Libya before the deadly terrorist attack there: "We weren't told they wanted more security there."RYAN: "There were requests for more security."
THE FACTS: Ryan is right, judging by testimony from Obama (http://features.rr.com/topic/Barack_Obama) administration officials at a congressional hearing this week.

BIDEN: "We went out and rescued General Motors (http://features.rr.com/topic/General_Motors)."
THE FACTS: Actually, the auto bailout of General Motors and Chrysler (http://features.rr.com/topic/Chrysler) began under President George W. Bush (http://features.rr.com/topic/George_W_Bush). The Obama administration continued and expanded it.

BIDEN, when asked who would pay more taxes in Obama's second term: "People making a million dollars or more."
THE FACTS: Obama's proposed tax increase reaches farther down the income ladder than millionaires. He wants to roll back Bush-era tax cuts for individuals making over $200,000 and couples making more than $250,000.

Blackstone
10-11-2012, 10:05 PM
Somehow I'm not surprised

The fact that he wouldn't answer the questions didn't bother you?

huntinman
10-11-2012, 10:09 PM
The fact that he wouldn't answer the questions didn't bother you?

No more the the usual lies from Biden/Obama. The "specifics" question is a canard. The abortion thing was an attempted setup. same old same old.

Franco
10-11-2012, 10:13 PM
The Repubs think Ryan won and the Dems think Biden won.

Ryan was more realistic regarding Medicare and the Repubs showed how much more dangerous they are regarding our policy in the mideast compared to the Dems. Ryan demonstrated that he is completely clueless about our current policy regarding Syria. Biden was clear about the Dems policy of not allowing Iran to have a nuclear bomb. Biden wants the Afgan army to take on more of the combat, Ryan is against the current reduction of US troops.

Blackstone
10-11-2012, 10:14 PM
Only a fool would make an exact line in the sand statement.

Richard

So, that means that cut is still on the table. The Romney tax reduction/deficit reduction plan cannot be accomplished with just the elimination of tax deductions an loopholes that are used exclusively by "wealthy" tax payers, despite what he says about "expanding the base." I think that is why he will not tell us where they plan to draw the line. The Obama campaign says they will not raise taxes on those that make less than $250k per year. I want to know where Romney draws the line.

huntinman
10-11-2012, 10:18 PM
So, that means that cut is still on the table. The Romney tax reduction/deficit reduction plan cannot be accomplished with just the elimination of tax deductions an loopholes that are used exclusively by "wealthy" tax payers, despite what he says about "expanding the base." I think that is why he will not tell us where they plan to draw the line. The Obama campaign says they will not raise taxes on those that make less than $250k per year. I want to know where Romney draws the line.


No you don't. You are not going to vote for him. It's a lib talking point.

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 10:23 PM
The professor that obama said he relied on that told him the math didnt add up, has already admitted that he never told obama that and Romney does have a plan that will work the math does add up. He cant be to specific because Obama will steal any ideas they have.

Blackstone
10-11-2012, 10:24 PM
No more the the usual lies from Biden/Obama. The "specifics" question is a canard. The abortion thing was an attempted setup. same old same old.

So, you're willing to trust that Romney is telling the truth, even though he won't tell you what his plan is? When did you get so trusting of politicians?

Blackstone
10-11-2012, 10:25 PM
The professor that obama said he relied on that told him the math didnt add up, has already admitted that he never told obama that and Romney does have a plan that will work the math does add up. He cant be to specific because Obama will steal any ideas they have.

I watched 2 economist on TV last weekend that said it didn't add up.

huntinman
10-11-2012, 10:27 PM
So, you're willing to trust that Romney is telling the truth, even though he won't tell you what his plan is? When did you get so trusting of politicians?

I know enough about his plan to know that it is better than the failures of the last four years of the most dishonest, least qualified president we have ever had.

HPL
10-11-2012, 10:29 PM
I watched 2 economist on TV last weekend that said it didn't add up.

Who were they and whose math did they say didn't add up?

Blackstone
10-11-2012, 10:30 PM
No you don't. You are not going to vote for him. It's a lib talking point.

But, you are going to vote for him whether he is willing to tell you or not? I try to be fair to both candidates. If one of them makes a good point, I give them credit for that. I won't put on the blinders and pretend it doesn't matter.

huntinman
10-11-2012, 10:33 PM
But, you are going to vote for him whether he is willing to tell you or not? I try to be fair to both candidates. If one of them makes a good point, I give them credit for that. I won't put on the blinders and pretend it doesn't matter.

No, I'm not nitpicking him to death... They said what they were going to do and I believe them. Obama said what he was going to do and it all turned out to be lies. I'll take Romney all day long. Four more weeks to get rid of the empty suit.

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 10:41 PM
As Princeton economics professor Harvey Rosen (https://www.princeton.edu/ceps/workingpapers/228rosen.pdf) writes, Romney's plan would neither require a net tax hike on the middle class nor a tax reduction for the rich under "plausible" growth assumptions.*
Obama cited harvey Rosen as the one saying it didnt add up another LIE

Princeton economics professor Harvey Rosen wants everyone to know that he didn’t say what Obama’s reelection campaign is claiming he said about Mitt Romney’s tax plan, namely that it would necessarily raise taxes on the middle class.
]he TPC model assumes that regardless of the tax rate, people work the same amount, save the same amount, and invest the same amount," writes Rosen. But growth is the whole point of Romney's plan. "[A] proposal along the lines suggested by Governor Romney can both be revenue neutral and keep the net tax burden on high-income individuals about the same," Rosen writes. "That is, an increase in the tax burden on lower and middle income individuals is not required in order to m make the overall plan revenue neutral."

Rosen finds that Romney's plan could work if tax reform causes the economy to grow 3 percentage points more over a given period of time than it would have grown without tax reform.

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 10:51 PM
I watched 2 economist on TV last weekend that said it didn't add up.

and Biden said Libya NEVER asked for more security thats a BOLDFACE LIE

huntinman
10-11-2012, 10:54 PM
and Biden said Libya NEVER asked for more security thats a BOLDFACE LIE

He should have to repeat that to the face of the families of the four dead Americans...

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 10:59 PM
I think Joes mind might be a little messed up maybe age or he has multiple personality disorder hes pretty scary to watch.. they kept him away from all interviews for 5 months and kep him locked up for 6 days to practice this debate I think he snapped.

gmhr1
10-11-2012, 11:26 PM
Biden also said Seniors wont lose their medicare advantage we have a member on this board who was just dropped so I guess thats another lie he told.

helencalif
10-12-2012, 02:19 AM
My take: Joe Biden was disrespectful with his posturing, his smirking, his eye rolling, his arm waving. Was it Chris Wallace or was it Brit Hume that said they had covered every presidential and vice presidential debate since Nixon-Kennedy and had never seen such a display by anyone. The closest was Al Gore when he rolled his eyes and sighed a lot. I saw that debate. Gore did sigh and roll his eyes, but his performance was NOTHING like the one Biden put on tonight.

Biden interrupted all evening and the moderator let him do it. Ryan had a hard time being able to finish a sentence to make a point.

FACTS: the fact checkers have been busy. Both Biden and Ryan made mis-statements. However, the one that really got me was when Biden said that Ryan voted for two wars and for the prescription bill. Biden said that he did not. HE DID. Biden voted for both wars and for the prescription bill. Now that was a bold face whopper, Mr. Biden.

Helen

Cody Covey
10-12-2012, 03:22 AM
My take: Joe Biden was disrespectful with his posturing, his smirking, his eye rolling, his arm waving. Was it Chris Wallace or was it Brit Hume that said they had covered every presidential and vice presidential debate since Nixon-Kennedy and had never seen such a display by anyone. The closest was Al Gore when he rolled his eyes and sighed a lot. I saw that debate. Gore did sigh and roll his eyes, but his performance was NOTHING like the one Biden put on tonight.

Biden interrupted all evening and the moderator let him do it. Ryan had a hard time being able to finish a sentence to make a point.

FACTS: the fact checkers have been busy. Both Biden and Ryan made mis-statements. However, the one that really got me was when Biden said that Ryan voted for two wars and for the prescription bill. Biden said that he did not. HE DID. Biden voted for both wars and for the prescription bill. Now that was a bold face whopper, Mr. Biden.

Helen

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

BonMallari
10-12-2012, 03:29 AM
six week from now will anyone remember who won the VP debate...


did this debate change the way you are going to vote


did this debate change the way you view either VP candidate

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2012, 04:01 AM
I think it was a "draw" on talking points put forth from each side.

Biden's demeanor toward Ryan was insulting and buffoon-like. His interruptions and talking over Ryan when it was Ryan's turn was both rude and annoying. The moderator let Biden get away with it. Ryan was polite to Biden. He had no choice, IMO. If he tried to rant like Biden did, I believe that it would not have served him well. Must admire Ryan's self-control in that regard. Not sure if anyone else sensed it, but I sensed that it was taking a lot of self-control on Ryan's part to continue being polite. I believe that subtly comes off as a strength in the face of adversity that would be in Ryan's favor.

At the end, CNN said that Biden spoke 41 minutes and Ryan 40. It certainly didn't seem that way, since Ryan's time was interrupted by Biden's "voice-overs".

Biden repeated facts already proven untrue by the POTUS debate fact check; and, of course, was now spinning the "new story" that it was all intel's failings. An irony (mentioned on post-debate analysis): If the intel community was so incompetent in discerning the cause of the Libya tragedy, how on God's green earth are they good enough to let us know when Iran has delivery capability of a nuclear weapon? It took them AT LEAST 2 weeks AFTER the events in Libya to get it right, but they will know BEFORE Iran has a weapon delivery capability? Illogical.

Specifics from Ryan? Why? NOBODY asked Obama for specifics when he was running. He said he would cut the deficit in half ... a huge promise. Nobody asked HIM how he would do it. Nobody. It is reasonable, to me, to lay out the the parameters of the tax reduction, and then hammer out details in a bi-partisan discussion to design the final product. R&R have already given more specifics than Obama ever did with his pie-in-the-sky rhetoric. BTW, no specifics from Obama on how his policies will make things better in another four years ... no new ideas; just more of the same, I guess. Can't be sure since he has given no specifics ... except to make the $200+ taxpayers pay more in taxes. That's old news.

Both candidates put forth talking points. I found Ryan's closing statement repetitious of the same phrases used before by the R ticket. I was looking for something more than that.

If Biden behaves this boorishly and dismissively in international relations or with legislators, I am not surprised that we are in the shape we are in at home and abroad.

CNN's poll was that 48% felt Ryan won; 44% felt Biden won. Very different from the POTUS debate. Each side would probably have wanted a more decisive verdict, but each side was probably also glad not to lose any ground.

If Obama comes off like Biden in the 2nd POTUS debate, I think it will not go as well for him. Biden, being older than Ryan, could get away with using his seniority as a bullying tool. Obama cannot use that ploy against Romney. If people found Biden's laughing, snickering, interruptions at all annoying, they will be more critical of that approach by Obama, IMO. Biden can get away with shooting from the lip, but Obama would not come off as "Presidential" if he did the same.

road kill
10-12-2012, 05:40 AM
Biden had a "mission" or a "task" if you will.
To save Obama due to his poor showing.

Biden failed in a most unprofessional and disrespectful way!

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg298/ImperialKing1/bidenlaugh-421.gif

"Joe Biden is laughing, are you?"

Franco
10-12-2012, 05:54 AM
My take: Joe Biden was disrespectful with his posturing, his smirking, his eye rolling, his arm waving. Was it Chris Wallace or was it Brit Hume that said they had covered every presidential and vice presidential debate since Nixon-Kennedy and had never seen such a display by anyone. The closest was Al Gore when he rolled his eyes and sighed a lot. I saw that debate. Gore did sigh and roll his eyes, but his performance was NOTHING like the one Biden put on tonight.

Biden interrupted all evening and the moderator let him do it. Ryan had a hard time being able to finish a sentence to make a point.

FACTS: the fact checkers have been busy. Both Biden and Ryan made mis-statements. However, the one that really got me was when Biden said that Ryan voted for two wars and for the prescription bill. Biden said that he did not. HE DID. Biden voted for both wars and for the prescription bill. Now that was a bold face whopper, Mr. Biden.

Helen

I caught that as well. Lets don't forget that they both voted for every raising of the Debt Ceiling during the Bush years, something like 7 or 8 times! Something they both should be ashamed of.

Interesting that after two debates, Illegal Immigration was never brought up.

I found both VP candidates to be uninspiring!

road kill
10-12-2012, 06:22 AM
I am curious how WOMEN perceived Biden's demeanor last night?
There is much discussion of that this morning.
Did you find it endearing or was it off putting?

dixidawg
10-12-2012, 06:45 AM
Hope and Change don't you know....

fetchtx
10-12-2012, 07:23 AM
As a independent trying to listen to this debate, Bidens interuptions, smirking were such a distraction it was hard to believe anything that came out of his mouth. He was embarrassing to watch and another hour and 1/2 I will never get back, shoulda taped it.

hotel4dogs
10-12-2012, 08:52 AM
I am totally embarrassed that that man is the VP of the great United States of America and in any way represents us. No wonder the rest of the world thinks Americans are rude, arrogant, and ignorant. I would not let children get away with his totally uncalled for behavior, let alone the Vice President of the United States.
Sad, just plain sad.

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 09:06 AM
I watched the focus groups 3000 polled 94% said they didnt like the way biden acted and it made them like him less. Now you know why they keep him locked up does he act like this when meeting with officials? He's not the man i want to take over if something happened to obama. I 'd rather have the dog

Romney will shred bo in the foreign policy debate over libya I would like to know why they dont tell Biden anything that will cost them.

Buzz
10-12-2012, 09:08 AM
I thought that he gave Ryan the respect he deserved.

Almost point-by-point Ryan was bested by Biden.


Even though Biden might have "offended" many with his aggressive behavior, it's always better to have people talking about how aggressive one guy was, instead of how defensive the other guy was. While Ryan wasn't so much defensive, Biden dictated the tempo of the debate - which is never a good thing for the other guy.

Ryan really fell into a trap on the stimulus, when he admitted to writing Biden a letter asking for stimulus funds, that should have been a "gnashing teeth" moment for his side.

Ryan was good, but he threw too many numbers out there that will go over everyone's head. Biden spoke in "plainer language."

Ryan was terrible on the Afghanistan war.

Ryan was crushed on Medicare, he said his own grandma was greatly helped by Medicare. You can't say that and then say its a bad program that needs to be overhauled.

So, now I have to get to work and make some money so I can afford to train and run my dogs (I have too many...). Have fun raking me over the coals...

zeus3925
10-12-2012, 09:14 AM
I saw somewhere that a school is going to use "garbage-cams" to see which kids are throwing the Obama lunch away

Remember, ketchup is a vegetable now!--Ronald Reagan (or one of his spokesman)

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 09:15 AM
Than Ryan should have spit on him in the end and gave him the respect he deserved, This is the VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES n not a guy in a bar brawl Respect belongs to that office and that of Pres we need people back in that take office that take running this seriously and they do not. Obama and biden acts like punks. He respresnts the office and you can see why they lie and cheat after watching the last two debates.

ARay11
10-12-2012, 09:22 AM
Did anyone notice that Ryan refused to answer the question about whether or not the mortgage interest tax deduction would be reduced or eliminated for Americans making under $50k per year under their plan? This is a concern I expressed earlier.

I did notice and immediately thought of our conversation.

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 09:29 AM
Do you think in order for obama to get the debt down cuts wont be made ? he will keep big bird we see how important that is to him you will lose your morgage ded, obama thought about it before and decided against it now he wont have a choice in order to bring debt down we will all feel it. I heard Paul Ryan say as biden was speaking over him the home deduction would be on people making over 250,000

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 09:32 AM
Do you think in order for obama to get the debt down cuts wont be made ? he will keep big bird we see how important that is to him you will lose your morgage ded, obama thought about it before and decided against it now he wont have a choice in order to bring debt down we will all feel it. I heard Paul Ryan say as biden was speaking over him the home deduction would be on people making over 250,000 This below article was in 2011

If Obama and the Democrats succeed in taking away the mortgage deduction, millions of upper-middle-class Americans will walk away from their homes and mortgages.

Who gets crippled? Banks, developers, realtors, plumbers, electricians, landscapers…all out of business. Consumer spending will come to a halt. On and on it trickles down. Tax revenues will plummet, the debt will skyrocket. Is that how a “community organizer” thinks you create jobs?

If you think the economy is bad now, wait until Obama gets his way. We’ll all be “community organizers.” It will be the only job left.

zeus3925
10-12-2012, 09:38 AM
I guess I would rate the debate as a tie. I believe Biden would have been the clear winner without the body language. I can understand his grinning. I have been caught grinning like a Cheshire cat in a debate when I had the facts cold and my opponent didn't. If you are pumped and your opponent makes a miscue, it is very easy to end up doing that. I don't think sober and somber would have worked for Biden. It is not his style. That aside, I wish at times he had put an anchor on it. Otherwise, he accomplished his mission to not let Ryan run away with it.

I thought Ryan was cool under fire. I thought he lacked detail in his proposals. This has been the major concern of a lot of us about the Republican ticket. I am beginning to believe that they either don't have specifics or they don't want to put them out for fear those proposals will get ripped to shreds. I am also concerned they are willing to put more stock in their allegiance to Grover Norquist than the electorate they represent. On the issue of Afghanistan it turned out that there was a tweedle dee- tweedle dum difference between the two and, thus, Ryan's thrust was ineffective there. On the issue of the stimulus, Biden had a major score on Ryan's two requests for stimulus money. That being said Ryan acquitted himself very well. He kept his calm even though it must have been tempting to unload on Biden.

Deportment to Ryan, content to Biden.

road kill
10-12-2012, 09:42 AM
I guess I would rate it as a tie. I believe Biden would have been the clear winner without the body language. i can understand the Grinning. I have been caught grinning like a Cheshire cat in a debate when I had the facts cold and my opponent didn't. If you are pumped and your opponent makes a miscue, it is very easy to end up doing that. I don't think sober and somber would have worked for Biden. It is not his style. That aside, I wish at times he had put an anchor on it. Otherwise, he accomplished his mission to not let Ryan run away with it.

I thought Ryan was cool under fire. I thought he lacked detail in his proposals. This has been the major concern of a lot of us about the Republican ticket. I am beginning to believe that they either don't have specifics or they don't want to put them out for fear those proposals will get ripped to shreds. I am also concerned they are willing to put more regard to their allegiance to Grover Norquist than the electorate they represent. On the issue of Afghanistan it turned out that there was a tweedle dee- tweedle dum difference between the two and thus, Ryan's thrust was ineffective there. On the issue of the stimulus, Biden had a major score on Ryan's two requests for stimulus money. That being said Ryan acquitted himself very well. He kept his calm even though it must have been tempting to unload on Biden.

Deportment to Ryan, content to Biden.
Good post.........

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 09:49 AM
Except Biden didnt have the knowledge he thought he had, he had alot of lies . Your not "joe" down the street your the VP grow up show respect we should expect more for our Pres and VP not accept their childish behaviour, just like we accepted it with Bill Clinton and the disrespect he showed to the office of the Pres. I dont want the biker down my steet or the manager of my burger king I want a PRESIDENT that acts like a President and being honest to the people is the most important thing we didnt have it with clinton and we dont have it now look at the mess wer are in . Employers are laying off full time help hiring people part time so they dont have to pay obamacare this will hit you all, just wait than Good luck.

ARay11
10-12-2012, 10:09 AM
I am curious how WOMEN perceived Biden's demeanor last night?
There is much discussion of that this morning.
Did you find it endearing or was it off putting?

In regards to Biden's demeanor:
I was embarrassed for him. He made a mockery of his position as second in charge to the free world. All the smirk, laugh, arm waving....

He told two big lies (not fuzzy math lies.... people -died -and -I- won't -tell- the- truth -about -it lies) He did vote for 2 wars, and Libya did request more security.
It was a huge disappointment for me. His antics thoughout the event made it unreasonable for me to continue to listen to him.

It is impossible to take seriously a man who will lie about why soldiers are dead.

zeus3925
10-12-2012, 10:17 AM
In regards to Biden's demeanor:
I was embarrassed for him. He made a mockery of his position as second in charge to the free world. All the smirk, laugh, arm waving....

He told two big lies (not fuzzy math lies.... people -died -and -I- won't -tell- the- truth -about -it lies) He did vote for 2 wars, and Libya did request more security.
It was a huge disappointment for me. His antics thoughout the event made it unreasonable for me to continue to listen to him.

It is impossible to take seriously a man who will lie about why soldiers are dead.
And Ryan did vote to cut funding for diplomatic security. Pot calling the kettle...

ARay11
10-12-2012, 10:19 AM
And Ryan did vote to cut funding for diplomatic security. Pot calling the kettle...

I did not hear him lie about it.

It is time to stand beside your vote. Own it.

I do not like that Ryan voted to cut funds for diplomatic security. At least he didn't lie.

BonMallari
10-12-2012, 10:20 AM
did Biden really say that "Iran is totally isolated", why do the people of Israel not feel safe about that



Biden is a CAREER politician who finally got a shot at the big time, but like McCain and others his time to go was long overdue..TERM LIMITS would have ended his tenure long ago

Pals
10-12-2012, 10:24 AM
And Ryan did vote to cut funding for diplomatic security. Pot calling the kettle...

So you give a free pass to this administration for its bald faced lies, fumbling who's on first cover up of the murder of our citizens in Libya? Just curious. It certainly seemed to me as if Joe was caught off guard with Ryans response. And now the waters are muddied even more, the state department gets tossed under the bus and the families of the victims are left in the dark. Nice.

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 10:28 AM
THE FACTS: Ryan’s Budget “Blueprint Doesn’t Specify Cuts To Embassy Security.” “Ryan’s budget plan would have cut non-defense discretionary spending by 19% in 2014, according to The Hill newspaper. The blueprint doesn’t specify cuts to embassy security, but the Obama campaign says the figure – if applied across the board – would result in a $300 million decrease in funding for protection, construction and maintenance of all U.S. embassies. The Romney campaign disputed the claim, saying no specific cuts were recommended.” (Tim Mullaney, Susan Davis, Jackie Kucinich, Paul Davidson and Aamer Madhani, “Fact Check: A 2nd Look At Biden And Ryan Claims.”USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/11/vice-presidential-debate-fact-check/1628435/), 10/11/12)
THE FACTS: State Department Official Charlene Lamb Testified Before The House Oversight Committee That Budget Cuts Had Nothing To Do With Security Decisions In Benghazi. REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R-CA): “It has been suggested the budget cuts are responsible for lack of security in Benghazi, and I’d like to ask Ms. Lamb, you made this decision personally, was there any budget consideration and lack of budget that led you not to increase the number of people in the security force there?” STATE DEPARTMENT DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMS CHARLENE LAMB: “No, sir.”(U.S. House Of Representatives, Oversight And Government Reform Committee, Hearing (http://youtu.be/1LRKGOrRkT4), 10/10/12)

Biden: “I Don’t Want To Say Anything In The Debate That’s Not Completely Accurate.” “‘What I’ve been doing mostly, quite frankly, is studying up on Congressman Ryan’s positions on the issues, and Gov. Romney has embraced at least everything I can see. I don’t want to say anything in the debate that’s not completely accurate,’ Biden told reporters outside a Hy-Vee in Council Bluffs, Iowa.” (Arlette Saenz, “Vice President Joe Biden Says Accuracy Is Key At Next Week’s Debate,” ABC News’ Political Punch (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/vice-president-joe-biden-says-accuracy-is-key-at-next-weeks-debate/#.UG60wDJNfHg.twitter), 10/4/12)

ARay11
10-12-2012, 10:32 AM
THE FACTS: Ryan’s Budget “Blueprint Doesn’t Specify Cuts To Embassy Security.” “Ryan’s budget plan would have cut non-defense discretionary spending by 19% in 2014, according to The Hill newspaper. The blueprint doesn’t specify cuts to embassy security, but the Obama campaign says the figure – if applied across the board – would result in a $300 million decrease in funding for protection, construction and maintenance of all U.S. embassies. The Romney campaign disputed the claim, saying no specific cuts were recommended.” (Tim Mullaney, Susan Davis, Jackie Kucinich, Paul Davidson and Aamer Madhani, “Fact Check: A 2nd Look At Biden And Ryan Claims.”USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/11/vice-presidential-debate-fact-check/1628435/), 10/11/12)
THE FACTS: State Department Official Charlene Lamb Testified Before The House Oversight Committee That Budget Cuts Had Nothing To Do With Security Decisions In Benghazi. REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R-CA): “It has been suggested the budget cuts are responsible for lack of security in Benghazi, and I’d like to ask Ms. Lamb, you made this decision personally, was there any budget consideration and lack of budget that led you not to increase the number of people in the security force there?” STATE DEPARTMENT DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMS CHARLENE LAMB: “No, sir.”(U.S. House Of Representatives, Oversight And Government Reform Committee, Hearing (http://youtu.be/1LRKGOrRkT4), 10/10/12)

Thank you for posting this!

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 10:34 AM
Who won the VP debate?Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the debate - Joe Biden or Paul Ryan?

Ryan
48%
Biden
44%




Ryan 48% Biden 44%
Source: CNN/ORC International

duckheads
10-12-2012, 10:36 AM
I guess I would rate the debate as a tie. I believe Biden would have been the clear winner without the body language. I can understand his grinning. I have been caught grinning like a Cheshire cat in a debate when I had the facts cold and my opponent didn't. If you are pumped and your opponent makes a miscue, it is very easy to end up doing that. I don't think sober and somber would have worked for Biden. It is not his style. That aside, I wish at times he had put an anchor on it. Otherwise, he accomplished his mission to not let Ryan run away with it.

I thought Ryan was cool under fire. I thought he lacked detail in his proposals. This has been the major concern of a lot of us about the Republican ticket. I am beginning to believe that they either don't have specifics or they don't want to put them out for fear those proposals will get ripped to shreds. I am also concerned they are willing to put more stock in their allegiance to Grover Norquist than the electorate they represent. On the issue of Afghanistan it turned out that there was a tweedle dee- tweedle dum difference between the two and, thus, Ryan's thrust was ineffective there. On the issue of the stimulus, Biden had a major score on Ryan's two requests for stimulus money. That being said Ryan acquitted himself very well. He kept his calm even though it must have been tempting to unload on Biden.

Deportment to Ryan, content to Biden.

Where are the specific details of the current regime? Why do you not ask for specifics from them?

I thought Biden was annoying as hell! Ryan has much more self control than I, as I would have blown my lid long before the debate was over. I could never be in politics as one unfortunately can never tell it like it is!

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 10:38 AM
THE CLAIM: Biden: “We Weren’t Told They Wanted More Security There.” (Vice President Joe Biden, Vice Presidential Debate, Danville, KY, 10/11/12)
THE FACTS: Biden Contradicted “Three State Department Officials And The Former Head Of Diplomatic Security In Libya.” “Vice President Joe Biden claimed that the administration wasn’t aware of requests for more security in Libya before the Sept. 11 attacks on the U.S. mission in Benghazi during Thursday night’s debate, contradicting three State Department officials and the former head of diplomatic security in Libya.” (Josh Rogin, “Biden Contradicts State Department On Benghazi Security,” Foreign Policy (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/11/biden_contradicts_state_department_on_benghazi_sec urity), 10/11/12)


“Two Security Officials Who Worked For The State Department In Libya … Repeatedly Requested More Security And Two State Department Officials Admitted They Had Denied Those Requests.” “In fact, two security officials who worked for the State Department in Libya at the time testified Thursday that they repeatedly requested more security and two State Department officials admitted they had denied those requests.” (Josh Rogin, “Biden Contradicts State Department On Benghazi Security,” Foreign Policy (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/11/biden_contradicts_state_department_on_benghazi_sec urity), 10/11/12)

THE FACTS: “This Was Contradicted By State Department Officials Just This Week, In Testimony Before A Congressional Panel And In Unclassified Cables Released By A Congressional Committee.” “But this was contradicted by State Department officials just this week, in testimony before a congressional panel and in unclassified cables released by a congressional committee. ‘All of us at post were in sync that we wanted these resources,’ said Eric Nordstrom, the top regional security officer in Libya earlier this year. A Utah national guardsman who led a security team, Lt. Col. Andrew Wood, said: ‘We felt great frustration that those requests were ignored or just never met.’” (Glenn Kessler, “Fact Check: State Department Contradicts Biden,” The Washington Post’s The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/11/fact-check-state-department-contradicts-biden/), 10/11/12)
NBC’s Andrea Mitchell: “The State Department Did Know In Real Time From Videos That Requests For More Security Resources Had Been Made And Were Turned Down. A State Department Official Acknowledged That Testifying On Capitol Hill Only Yesterday.” NBC’s ANDREA MITCHELL: “Vice President Biden called the deaths a tragedy but he then claimed that the Obama administration did not know that Ambassador Stevens and other personnel on the ground had been asking for more security help.” VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: “We weren’t told they wanted more security again. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly — we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment.” MITCHELL: “It was an assessment but the State Department did know in real time from videos that requests for more security resources had been made and were turned down. A state department official acknowledged that testifying on Capitol Hill only yesterday.” (NBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sviBtN3uirE&feature=youtu.be), 10/11/12)
THE FACTS: “Senior State Department Officials Told A House Committee They Turned Down Requests From The U.S. Embassy In Libya To Send More American Military Personnel To Guard The Diplomatic Facilities.” “One day earlier, however, senior State Department officials told a House committee they turned down requests from the U.S. embassy in Libya to send more American military personnel to guard the diplomatic facilities.” (Meghan McCarthy, Katy O’Donnell, Josh Smith, and Sara Sorcher, “Fact Check: The Vice Presidential Debate Between Biden And Ryan,” National Journal (http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/fact-check-the-vice-presidential-debate-between-biden-and-ryan-20121011), 10/11/12)


“Charlene R. Lamb, A Deputy Assistant Secretary For Diplomatic Security, Told Lawmakers She Refused Requests For More Security In Benghazi.” “Ryan is right, judging by testimony from Obama administration officials at a congressional hearing this week. Charlene R. Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary for diplomatic security, told lawmakers she refused requests for more security in Benghazi, saying the department wanted to train Libyans to protect the consulate. ‘Yes, sir, I said personally I would not support it,’ she said.” (Calvin Woodward, “FACT CHECK: Slips On Libya, Syria, Auto Bailout,” The Associated Press (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5id1VN15GlM9c4A4yR4w5Dq3rK1xQ?docId=f5de05167 02549eb86095de8801ca39e), 10/11/12)



“Eric Nordstrom, Who Was The Top Security Official In Libya Earlier This Year, Testified He Was Criticized For Seeking More Security.” “Eric Nordstrom, who was the top security official in Libya earlier this year, testified he was criticized for seeking more security. He said conversations he had with people in Washington led him to believe that it was ‘abundantly clear we were not going to get resources until the aftermath of an incident. How thin does the ice have to get before someone falls through?’” (Calvin Woodward, “FACT CHECK: Slips On Libya, Syria, Auto Bailout,” The Associated Press (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5id1VN15GlM9c4A4yR4w5Dq3rK1xQ?docId=f5de05167 02549eb86095de8801ca39e), 10/11/12)

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 10:39 AM
Biden: “I Don’t Want To Say Anything In The Debate That’s Not Completely Accurate.”

THE CLAIM: Biden: “We Weren’t Told They Wanted More Security There.” (Vice President Joe Biden, Vice Presidential Debate, Danville, KY, 10/11/12)
THE FACTS: Biden Contradicted “Three State Department Officials And The Former Head Of Diplomatic Security In Libya.” “Vice President Joe Biden claimed that the administration wasn’t aware of requests for more security in Libya before the Sept. 11 attacks on the U.S. mission in Benghazi during Thursday night’s debate, contradicting three State Department officials and the former head of diplomatic security in Libya.” (Josh Rogin, “Biden Contradicts State Department On Benghazi Security,” Foreign Policy (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/11/biden_contradicts_state_department_on_benghazi_sec urity), 10/11/12)


“Two Security Officials Who Worked For The State Department In Libya … Repeatedly Requested More Security And Two State Department Officials Admitted They Had Denied Those Requests.” “In fact, two security officials who worked for the State Department in Libya at the time testified Thursday that they repeatedly requested more security and two State Department officials admitted they had denied those requests.” (Josh Rogin, “Biden Contradicts State Department On Benghazi Security,” Foreign Policy (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/11/biden_contradicts_state_department_on_benghazi_sec urity), 10/11/12)

THE FACTS: “This Was Contradicted By State Department Officials Just This Week, In Testimony Before A Congressional Panel And In Unclassified Cables Released By A Congressional Committee.” “But this was contradicted by State Department officials just this week, in testimony before a congressional panel and in unclassified cables released by a congressional committee. ‘All of us at post were in sync that we wanted these resources,’ said Eric Nordstrom, the top regional security officer in Libya earlier this year. A Utah national guardsman who led a security team, Lt. Col. Andrew Wood, said: ‘We felt great frustration that those requests were ignored or just never met.’” (Glenn Kessler, “Fact Check: State Department Contradicts Biden,” The Washington Post’s The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/11/fact-check-state-department-contradicts-biden/), 10/11/12)
NBC’s Andrea Mitchell: “The State Department Did Know In Real Time From Videos That Requests For More Security Resources Had Been Made And Were Turned Down. A State Department Official Acknowledged That Testifying On Capitol Hill Only Yesterday.” NBC’s ANDREA MITCHELL: “Vice President Biden called the deaths a tragedy but he then claimed that the Obama administration did not know that Ambassador Stevens and other personnel on the ground had been asking for more security help.” VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: “We weren’t told they wanted more security again. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly — we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment.” MITCHELL: “It was an assessment but the State Department did know in real time from videos that requests for more security resources had been made and were turned down. A state department official acknowledged that testifying on Capitol Hill only yesterday.” (NBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sviBtN3uirE&feature=youtu.be), 10/11/12)
THE FACTS: “Senior State Department Officials Told A House Committee They Turned Down Requests From The U.S. Embassy In Libya To Send More American Military Personnel To Guard The Diplomatic Facilities.” “One day earlier, however, senior State Department officials told a House committee they turned down requests from the U.S. embassy in Libya to send more American military personnel to guard the diplomatic facilities.” (Meghan McCarthy, Katy O’Donnell, Josh Smith, and Sara Sorcher, “Fact Check: The Vice Presidential Debate Between Biden And Ryan,” National Journal (http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/fact-check-the-vice-presidential-debate-between-biden-and-ryan-20121011), 10/11/12)


“Charlene R. Lamb, A Deputy Assistant Secretary For Diplomatic Security, Told Lawmakers She Refused Requests For More Security In Benghazi.” “Ryan is right, judging by testimony from Obama administration officials at a congressional hearing this week. Charlene R. Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary for diplomatic security, told lawmakers she refused requests for more security in Benghazi, saying the department wanted to train Libyans to protect the consulate. ‘Yes, sir, I said personally I would not support it,’ she said.” (Calvin Woodward, “FACT CHECK: Slips On Libya, Syria, Auto Bailout,” The Associated Press (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5id1VN15GlM9c4A4yR4w5Dq3rK1xQ?docId=f5de05167 02549eb86095de8801ca39e), 10/11/12)



“Eric Nordstrom, Who Was The Top Security Official In Libya Earlier This Year, Testified He Was Criticized For Seeking More Security.” “Eric Nordstrom, who was the top security official in Libya earlier this year, testified he was criticized for seeking more security. He said conversations he had with people in Washington led him to believe that it was ‘abundantly clear we were not going to get resources until the aftermath of an incident. How thin does the ice have to get before someone falls through?’” (Calvin Woodward, “FACT CHECK: Slips On Libya, Syria, Auto Bailout,” The Associated Press (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5id1VN15GlM9c4A4yR4w5Dq3rK1xQ?docId=f5de05167 02549eb86095de8801ca39e), 10/11/12)

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 10:44 AM
In the Thursday night vice presidential debate, Vice President Joe Biden criticized Congressman Paul Ryan for voting to "put two wars"--those in Afghanistan and Iraq--"on a credit card." But as the Washington Free Beacon points out (http://freebeacon.com/biden-claims-he-voted-against-afghanistan-iraq-wars/), Biden's suggestion that he didn't vote for those wars is simply false:
“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”
“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”
Then Sen. Biden voted (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00281) for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_107_1.htm) “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”
And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/senaterollcall_iraq101002.htm) to the Washington Post.

the lies keep coming.

ARay11
10-12-2012, 10:54 AM
I was also amazed by VP Biden's insistence that Iran did not have a weapon to place a war head in. Didn't they test fire a long range missile in 2009? Anyway... regardless of that... Just how long do we think it would take til another country SELLS them one?? Probably right about the time they finish their enrichment.

zeus3925
10-12-2012, 10:59 AM
I thought Biden was annoying as hell! Ryan has much more self control than I, as I would have blown my lid long before the debate was over. I could never be in politics as one unfortunately can never tell it like it is!

Maybe you should run. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the country is going nowhere until we get some manufacturing jobs here. It means the "job creators" are going to have to act with a little more patriotism and create those jobs, here instead of in China. Not all of us are cut out to be bankers and traders. The US can't survive on a service economy alone. We need jobs that the common man can do, make on honest living, and form a stable tax base.

In the interim, we can't continue to spend like democrats and tax like republicans. We can't continue to yell at each other across a ditch and get anything done. We are in this boat together and both port and starboard are going to have to at some point start rowing together in a common direction.

helencalif
10-12-2012, 11:06 AM
And Ryan did vote to cut funding for diplomatic security. Pot calling the kettle...

During the hearings, the two State Dept officials were asked point blank if a lack of funds were the reason there was inadequate security and they said no. There were adequate funds.

It has also been brought up that a "green" event was held at Vienna's embassy. That $110,000 was spent for the Vienna embassy to have a charging station for 2 Volt cars given to the embassy by our government (we know who buys Volts, our government). It was a big celebration with champagne, etc. Did not say how much the "green" celebration cost to throw.

And yet... over in Benghazi... our security leaders were begging for security guards and the consulate in Benghazi did not meet security standards for its walls and buildings.

M&K's Retrievers
10-12-2012, 11:09 AM
I thought they both pretty much sucked. Ryan sucked less with class. Joe had class as well. It was just low. The only thing Biden didn't do was stick his nose in the air like Obama.

helencalif
10-12-2012, 11:14 AM
I do not like that Ryan voted to cut funds for diplomatic security. At least he didn't lie.

I'd like to see what was proposed. Often a bill comes up for vote with an identification on it that is packed with so much unrelated pork the title does not bear out the content. I'd like to be able to read what was proposed to increase or to cut "diplomatic security".

What I heard was... it was not at all about security personnel. It was about what the State Dept wants to spend or does spend on buildings and compounds. To make them safe? We'd like to see that. To make them plush resorts under the guise of "security"? No.

What was being cut and why? We need to know how the State Dept has spent its funds before we can make a judgment call on why there was that vote.

Helen

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 11:24 AM
If Biden didnt know anything about the Libya attack he didnt know they asked for security why are we paying him to be VP ? Does he sit in a closet eating popcorn all day this is the most out of touch group of people I have ever seen No one KNOWS anything about anything! How are they running this country....we need LEADERSHIP NOT an empty chair 98 % of the time.

Biden is old gets confused he said the Pres talked with Netanyahu BEFORE the UN meeting even Jay Carney said Obama will call and did call AFTER the UN its a little thing but he still was wrong. I think he lied on almost evey word he said. You have to remember when you vote for obama if anything happens to him biden is who you get the VP does matter. I would trust Paul Ryan to be Pres over biden anyday.

zeus3925
10-12-2012, 12:35 PM
During the hearings, the two State Dept officials were asked point blank if a lack of funds were the reason there was inadequate security and they said no. There were adequate funds.

It has also been brought up that a "green" event was held at Vienna's embassy. That $110,000 was spent for the Vienna embassy to have a charging station for 2 Volt cars given to the embassy by our government (we know who buys Volts, our government). It was a big celebration with champagne, etc. Did not say how much the "green" celebration cost to throw.



Interesting. Embassies and consulates often throw events to show case their countriy's wares. Been to a few myself. The Canadian consulate here throw some real dandies. Brie smothered in wild cranberries, all the Molson's, Royal Crown and Windsor you wished to tank up on. Got to talk hockey besides. Thank you Canada!

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 01:36 PM
This could be your next president he's a "heartbeat" away


https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/536446_3819918899672_1777380321_n.jpg

Down East Labs 217
10-12-2012, 01:52 PM
I thought that he gave Ryan the respect he deserved.

Almost point-by-point Ryan was bested by Biden.


Even though Biden might have "offended" many with his aggressive behavior, it's always better to have people talking about how aggressive one guy was, instead of how defensive the other guy was. While Ryan wasn't so much defensive, Biden dictated the tempo of the debate - which is never a good thing for the other guy.

Ryan really fell into a trap on the stimulus, when he admitted to writing Biden a letter asking for stimulus funds, that should have been a "gnashing teeth" moment for his side.

Ryan was good, but he threw too many numbers out there that will go over everyone's head. Biden spoke in "plainer language."

Ryan was terrible on the Afghanistan war.

Ryan was crushed on Medicare, he said his own grandma was greatly helped by Medicare. You can't say that and then say its a bad program that needs to be overhauled.

So, now I have to get to work and make some money so I can afford to train and run my dogs (I have too many...). Have fun raking me over the coals...



You are wrong Buzz. You will not be raked over the coals. Keal hulled maybe but not the coals :).

I was not impressed by Bidens behavior. I could care less about the meat of what either says but was more concerned about how they dealt with the stress. I wanted to see who has the better demeanor if they have to step up and take over. Ryan won hands down for what I look at a VP debate for.

If I want the meat of the subjects I will listen to the heavy weights not their puppets.

Richard

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2012, 02:16 PM
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Blackstone http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1021119#post1021119)
Did anyone notice that Ryan refused to answer the question about whether or not the mortgage interest tax deduction would be reduced or eliminated for Americans making under $50k per year under their plan? This is a concern I expressed earlier.


Isn't it perfectly feasible to eliminate the mortgage interest for 2nd homes, and/or only for people whose income is over $500K?

R&R have laid out the parameters of not increasing taxes on the middle class, NOR lower them for the top 1%, so there would be many different ways to structure tax code to accomplish that. I believe that is why the suggestion of a "bucket" of deductions was put forth. Those who are eligible would get to choose which deductions they would claim, but would have an overall "cap" on the amount they could deduct. The "cap" could vary based on the gross or adjusted net income in a way that would assure the middle class (however that is defined!) would be protected.

The income levels and caps on deductions could be indexed ... NOT to overall COI, but to the cost of food and energy! Those two items erode the middle class disposable income more than they do to the higher income levels.

Short of the flat tax concept, that is one of the few "new" ideas that I have seen presented on tax reform ... and it did NOT come from the current administration.

Not taxing interest and capital gains could also be indexed to overall income. Many seniors supplement their SS with small investments, so it would benefit middle income seniors to rely less on social services and more on their own savings and investments. That makes some sense to me. That will encourage more middle income individuals to save for their retirements and put less stress on social services provided by govt taxes on others.

R&R have also indicated that they ARE increasing taxes on the wealthy, because so many seem to miss the fact that they will take SS and Medicare subsidies away from those high income levels in retirement. You might say that they are imposing a form of a flat tax on the wealthy that will not apply to middle or low income groups.

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2012, 02:36 PM
I thought that he gave Ryan the respect he deserved.

Regardless of B's personal like or dislike of Ryan, Biden still has a responsibility to the voters to behave with good manners. How would you react if Biden treated you that way in a conversation? Would he speak that way to his constituents in the middle class? Every American deserves courtesy and good manners.


Almost point-by-point Ryan was bested by Biden.


Even though Biden might have "offended" many with his aggressive behavior, it's always better to have people talking about how aggressive one guy was, instead of how defensive the other guy was. While Ryan wasn't so much defensive, Biden dictated the tempo of the debate - which is never a good thing for the other guy.

Biden definitely dictated the tempo. If Ryan had followed suit, it would have been an outright brawl. I have to agree with the poster that I would rather have a VP (a heartbeat away) who knows how to keep his cool in the face of such bombast ... not an uncommon trait among our adversaries on the world stage.


Ryan really fell into a trap on the stimulus, when he admitted to writing Biden a letter asking for stimulus funds, that should have been a "gnashing teeth" moment for his side.

At least he didn't resort to lying. Biden got away with lying about some obvious stuff.


Ryan was good, but he threw too many numbers out there that will go over everyone's head. Biden spoke in "plainer language."
Can agree with that.

Ryan was terrible on the Afghanistan war.
Biden made one point with which I could agree. The Iraqis and Afghans need some kind of deadline when they are expected to take responsibility for themselves. Would say that should include a gradual draw-down on financial aid as well.


Ryan was crushed on Medicare, he said his own grandma was greatly helped by Medicare. You can't say that and then say its a bad program that needs to be overhauled.
Since Medicare is not presently financially sustainable, it makes very good sense to financially overhaul to preserve as many benefits as possible.

Why haven't R&R brought up accepting IBM's offer of FREE software to eliminate waste and fraud? Why has everyone forgotten about that?

So, now I have to get to work and make some money so I can afford to train and run my dogs (I have too many...). Have fun raking me over the coals...




I replied in what I believe is a reasonable way to your post. I wouldn't call it "raking you over the coals" ... just having a discussion.

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 03:32 PM
either Biden was lying or no one felt he was important enough or competent enough to tell what was going on in Libya. Biden is the foreign policy guru . Libya is Obamas war 4 people dead, Biden Laughs and Obama thinks he was great.

On medicare Ryan said it was there for his grandma and mom he hopes one day its there for him his wife and kids it needs reform it will not be there if something is not done its going BANKRUPT Its a good program we should all have it under Obama we wont!

Paul Ryan was very presidential something Biden was not. He kept his cool , thats what we need in America not a bunch of screaming idiots. Now we know why they keep joe locked away from the public the man needs meds. Is he the person you want answering the phone at 3am?

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 03:43 PM
ANOTHER BIDEN BLOOPER LAST NIGHT He said The middle class will pay less, and people making more than $1 MILLION will pay more,” Vice President Joe Biden says of the Obama administration’s plan for taxes. of course obama says making more than $ 250,000 SO The WHITE HOUSE HAD TO DISAVOW THIS STATEMENT TODAY Next tuesday is the Pres debate. Also Obama 2016 comes out on Direct tv cant wait to watch it again its perfect before halloween always enjoy a horror movie.

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Obama will be on the daily show Thursday its his 6 th visit to the show since taking office, maybe jon Stewart can ask him a question about Libya instead of whats his fav color.

road kill
10-12-2012, 04:32 PM
Joe Buden did exactly what he practiced to do.
No discussion on his lies or RYan's content.

All about the way he acted in the debate.

This is the face of the Democrat party!!!!

It's who they are, it's what they do..............

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2012, 06:51 PM
Jay Carney's press conference today, in reference to Joe's comments about the security in Libya:


REPORTER: The vice president's comments last night in the debate were widely interpreted as saying that he was -- the administration was absolved. He said, "We weren't told." Okay, so you're saying the State Department was told --

CARNEY: The vice president was speaking about himself and the president and the White House. He was not referring to the administration. Clearly (snickers) since there was a public hearing for 4-1/2 hours where it was discussed openly by individuals working at the State Department, [the] requests that were made. Obviously he was referring to... Uh, he was talking about the administration at large; he was speaking about himself and the president and the White House.


Hmm ... seems like Hillary was standing right next to the POTUS when he made his announcement; and also at the arrival of the bodies from Libya. She did not brief the POTUS on the State Dept. intel? I thought the idea was that they talked to each other about important stuff like this?

zeus3925
10-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Here we go. Link to factcheck.org:
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/veep-debate-violations/

Seems that both sides got caught in confabulation.

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 07:23 PM
I didnt see this in the above fact checker
The middle class will pay less, and people making more than $1 MILLION will pay more,” Vice President Joe Biden says of the Obama administration’s plan for taxes. of course obama says making more than $ 250,000 SO The WHITE HOUSE HAD TO DISAVOW THIS STATEMENT TODAY

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 07:34 PM
Can you imagine what would be said about Paul Ryan if he had treated joe the same way joe treated him?

another FACT
Barack Obama's presidency has now coincided with four straight $1 trillion-plus annual budget deficits — the first in history and an issue in an election campaign that ends in Nov. 6.
Obama's Republican challenger, Mitt Romney, contends that Obama failed to achieve a pledge to halve the deficit he inherited by the end of his first term.
When Obama took office in January 2009, the Congressional Budget Office forecast that the deficit for that year would total $1.2 trillion. It ended up at a record $1.41 trillion.

zeus3925
10-12-2012, 07:58 PM
Another factcheck:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/11/14379368-truth-squad-the-vice-presidential-debate?lite

dixidawg
10-12-2012, 08:24 PM
I was also amazed by VP Biden's insistence that Iran did not have a weapon to place a war head in. Didn't they test fire a long range missile in 2009? Anyway... regardless of that... Just how long do we think it would take til another country SELLS them one?? Probably right about the time they finish their enrichment.


This one blew my mind too. Didn't we deliver 2 nukes with a 1940's era plane?

Isn't a "suitcase" capable of delivering a nuke nowadays?

Does Iran have nuclear capability, but no planes or suitcases?

Thomas D
10-12-2012, 08:43 PM
I thought the summaries each gave at the end were interesting. It was obvious Ryan was prepared. Biden looked as if his batteries (or meds) ran out and he wanted to go get a drink.

Don't know if it is true, but someone said Bidens tactics were Chicago/Boston old school debate style. Make all the facial gestures, laugh, whatever to get the other guy off his game and have the audience looking at you instead of the speaker. He might have accomplished that......but to his detriment.

gmhr1
10-12-2012, 08:56 PM
I knew Biden looked familiar Biden and Walter



Separated at birth?http://picchore.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ATT00002.jpg (http://picchore.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ATT00002.jpg)

Buzz
10-12-2012, 09:39 PM
This one blew my mind too. Didn't we deliver 2 nukes with a 1940's era plane?

Isn't a "suitcase" capable of delivering a nuke nowadays?

Does Iran have nuclear capability, but no planes or suitcases?


He did not make the claim that they didn't have a delivery system, he said that they didn't have a weapon to put it in. He is questioning their ability to build a bomb.

charly_t
10-12-2012, 09:44 PM
I'd like to see what was proposed. Often a bill comes up for vote with an identification on it that is packed with so much unrelated pork the title does not bear out the content. I'd like to be able to read what was proposed to increase or to cut "diplomatic security".

What I heard was... it was not at all about security personnel. It was about what the State Dept wants to spend or does spend on buildings and compounds. To make them safe? We'd like to see that. To make them plush resorts under the guise of "security"? No.

What was being cut and why? We need to know how the State Dept has spent its funds before we can make a judgment call on why there was that vote.

Helen

Bingo ! You hit the nail on the head ( more than once I might add ).

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2012, 10:11 PM
He did not make the claim that they didn't have a delivery system, he said that they didn't have a weapon to put it in. He is questioning their ability to build a bomb.

If they have acquired the technology to enrich uranium, they couldn't find someone to help them build a bomb?

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2012, 10:14 PM
One of Biden's more obvious "whoppers" ... off by a whole LOT on the relative size of Libya v. Syria; off by a factor of 45? ... from Washington Free Beacon ...

During Thursday’s vice presidential debate, Vice President Joe Biden claimed Syria is five times the size of Libya, but in reality it is not.

Syria has an area (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sy.html) of 185,180 square kilometers, while Libya has (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ly.html) an area of more than 1.7 million square kilometers, making Libya literally nine times larger than Syria, according to the Central Intelligence Agency.

zeus3925
10-13-2012, 02:40 AM
Another factcheck:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/11/14379368-truth-squad-the-vice-presidential-debate?lite

caryalsobrook
10-13-2012, 06:34 AM
Another factcheck:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/11/14379368-truth-squad-the-vice-presidential-debate?lite

I guess someone should fact check the fact check, which you evidently dod not check. Just for giggles, which budget was Biden talking about? the 2 budgets that the house has passed in the last 2 years or the budget under GWB? Or was he talking about Obama's budget proposal that was voted down in the senate 97-0 where not even a single democrat voted in favor? Or was it the other budget prosal Obama submitted that was not even voted on? Fact is Obama is to my knowledge the only President who has served a full term and not ever had a budget passed. Considering that he had a super majority in the Senate and a majority in the house and passed the stimulus, Obamacare and Dodd-Frank Finantial bill, he never took the time to see that a budget was passed.

Just so more of the HS that the dems via biden have put forth, and so much for your 'FACT CHECK":p

gmhr1
10-13-2012, 09:38 AM
Fact checkers are like ticks they are all over the place and they all lean left or right

Gerry Clinchy
10-13-2012, 10:37 AM
Most of the fact-checkers seem to be incomplete ... NBC, for example, only touched on a few items, and left many others unaddressed. Not to mention the fact that any $300 million cut in one of Ryan's budgets meant NOTHING, since such budget was never passed by the Senate. All D's rejecting Obama's most recent budget sent to Congress.

The battle cry is still that the R's are obstructionist. So how do they explain no Dems voting for Obama's budget?

More interesting to me was reading some of the comments ... presumably the comments are made by people who have read the article. Most of the comments indicate that those commenting don't give a RA for the major Biden's major blunders ... that Biden was outright lying about not having voted for the two wars.

It seems that extremes of either side reject any facts that interfere with their "rationalizations". It seems more rational for each side to acknowledge the bloopers of both sides, and then evaluate them. Of course, it's entirely possible that rational thought has no place in politics.

charly_t
10-14-2012, 02:07 PM
.................................................. .......................................

It seems that extremes of either side reject any facts that interfere with their "rationalizations". It seems more rational for each side to acknowledge the bloopers of both sides, and then evaluate them. Of course, it's entirely possible that rational thought has no place in politics.

I see emotional attachment by most people to their party/candidate of choice. Mostly it is very sad but sometimes it's funny. Blindly loyal to their pick most of the time.

road kill
10-14-2012, 02:46 PM
Most of the fact-checkers seem to be incomplete ... NBC, for example, only touched on a few items, and left many others unaddressed. Not to mention the fact that any $300 million cut in one of Ryan's budgets meant NOTHING, since such budget was never passed by the Senate. All D's rejecting Obama's most recent budget sent to Congress.

The battle cry is still that the R's are obstructionist. So how do they explain no Dems voting for Obama's budget?

More interesting to me was reading some of the comments ... presumably the comments are made by people who have read the article. Most of the comments indicate that those commenting don't give a RA for the major Biden's major blunders ... that Biden was outright lying about not having voted for the two wars.

It seems that extremes of either side reject any facts that interfere with their "rationalizations". It seems more rational for each side to acknowledge the bloopers of both sides, and then evaluate them. Of course, it's entirely possible that rational thought has no place in politics.


I see emotional attachment by most people to their party/candidate of choice. Mostly it is very sad but sometimes it's funny. Blindly loyal to their pick most of the time.

Personally, I am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the America I grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.

huntinman
10-14-2012, 04:21 PM
Personally, I am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the America I grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.



Here, Here!!

Marty Lee
10-14-2012, 04:37 PM
Personally, I am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the America I grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.

BEST POST i have ever read in PP. he has my vote as well.

Down East Labs 217
10-14-2012, 04:42 PM
Personally, I am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the America I grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.

Great Post.

Richard

BonMallari
10-14-2012, 04:47 PM
personally, i am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the america i grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.

the post of the year right there......well done RK

Brad Turner
10-14-2012, 05:11 PM
Personally, I am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the America I grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.

Nice post. 100% agree

Sundown49 aka Otey B
10-14-2012, 07:57 PM
Personally, I am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the America I grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.

Great Post !!!

charly_t
10-14-2012, 11:20 PM
Personally, I am not "emotionally attached" to a party or a candidate.

I am, however, "emotionally attached" to the America I grew up in, fought for and beleive in.

Only 1 of these 2 candidates has any idea what that is.

He has my vote.

Good post, R K ! I agree with you 100%. Personally I am at this time more attached emotionally to my money than any one running for office in this country. VBEG