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helencalif
10-16-2012, 01:07 PM
It's tonight. Just starting the ball rolling. Let's hope the moderator is fair in selecting the questions and it is hoped that she doesn't jump in and expand those questions by adding her own thoughts and words. Apparently she has a knack for creating her own spin. And, yes, she is not bi-partisan.

gmhr1
10-16-2012, 02:03 PM
Just toss her a box of doughnuts she wont make a peep!

M&K's Retrievers
10-16-2012, 05:11 PM
Just toss her a box of doughnuts she wont make a peep!

That's mean spirited and pretty darn funny. :D

Crispy Creme regards,

luvmylabs23139
10-16-2012, 09:21 PM
only 15 minutes in and I already want to throw something at my tv everytime Obama opens his mouth.
Baseball game has to be better than listening to him lying his butt off.

youngblood
10-16-2012, 09:23 PM
I like how the moderator is letting Obama voice his rebuttal but telling Romney he will have plenty of time.......

coachmo
10-16-2012, 09:35 PM
obama's tactic is to say everything romney says is a lie. The simpletons will eat this up.

luvmylabs23139
10-16-2012, 09:37 PM
Obama is coming off as a mean nasty jerk.

huntinman
10-16-2012, 09:38 PM
obama's tactic is to say everything romney says is a lie. The simpletons will eat this up.

As Rush Limbaugh said the other day... Obama is after the Moron vote.

luvmylabs23139
10-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Big Bird again from Obama.

luvmylabs23139
10-16-2012, 09:42 PM
I love how Obama knows absolutely nothing about accounting. A tax cut is not spending, it effects revenue not expenses, what an idiot.

BonMallari
10-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Candy Crowley has already lost all control of the "debate".....I say let them have at it....let the American public see who is lying and who is slinging the BS....Crowley is trying to steer the narrative

coachmo
10-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Does anyone believe anything obama says? Does he ever answer a question?

Franco
10-16-2012, 09:57 PM
The new jobs in America might be filled by those hired to fact check these guys energy claims. -Boone

2goldens
10-16-2012, 10:08 PM
Obama comes off as a arrogant jerk. His only stand is to say...Romney says this, Romney says that. Romney comes across with strength and purpose...creating jobs, balancing budget, energy independent.

Joe Dutro
10-16-2012, 10:11 PM
I would like to hear a question about cutting regulations so business can grow.
OR
Hear a question about rights and freedoms including the second amendment.

gmhr1
10-16-2012, 10:12 PM
WHAT A LIAR OBAMA IS he said a key part of the AZ law is cops can pull you over because they suspect you are an illiegal meaning you are hispanic thats a LIE!!!!

Somebody should have given candy that box of doughnuts she needs to butt out

huntinman
10-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Romney just busted Obama on the retirement investments... Obama could not cut him off fast enough.

h20fowler
10-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Obama's answer to immigration.. "I'm from Kenya" followed by a mic drop.

shawninthesticks
10-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Immigration- Obama just sealed his fate with me.

BonMallari
10-16-2012, 10:14 PM
I thought this debate was supposed to be about foreign policy....Has there been one question about foreign policy ?

Franco
10-16-2012, 10:15 PM
Anyone else in support of a candidate UFC cage match?? Put um' in the octagon! J Ventura

luvmylabs23139
10-16-2012, 10:19 PM
I thought this debate was supposed to be about foreign policy....Has there been one question about foreign policy ?

Nope, 3rd debate is foreign policy.

Joe Dutro
10-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Hilary works for Obama??
I thought they were all suppose to work for us. Who made him king?

shawninthesticks
10-16-2012, 10:27 PM
Barack "the spider" Obama VS Mitt "you got no better choice" Romney

HPL
10-16-2012, 10:31 PM
Completely and totally off topic, but Shawn, that's a beautiful image you have as your avatar.

gmhr1
10-16-2012, 10:37 PM
Where has Obama been the last 4 yrs? hes been the Pres is record stinks hes talking like hes coming in fresh.

shawninthesticks
10-16-2012, 10:41 PM
GR -your are right he is in the the hole with his ideas

shawninthesticks
10-16-2012, 10:43 PM
Completely and totally off topic, but Shawn, that's a beautiful image you have as your avatar.

Thanks HPL, that was taken at coffee time last year,I cant wait for coffee time next weekend,thats when thoughts are pure.

coachmo
10-16-2012, 10:47 PM
Did obama really just say he doesn't believe government creates jobs and he believes in free enterprise? WOW! He is such a liar.

2goldens
10-16-2012, 10:55 PM
I don't understand....the TV commentators are saying this was a clear win for Obama! He doesn't answer questions, he just goes around and around off the question.

Joe Dutro
10-16-2012, 10:56 PM
I don't understand....the TV commentators are saying this was a clear win for Obama! He doesn't answer questions, he just goes around and around off the question.

NBC or another liberal station?

mngundog
10-16-2012, 11:12 PM
NBC or another liberal station?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that probably 98% on here believe all news stations are liberal except for Fox which is fair and balanced. :D

gmhr1
10-16-2012, 11:13 PM
they thought biden won to

huntinman
10-16-2012, 11:15 PM
Obama graduated from Harvard Law by spelling his name correctly too.

Jennifer Henion
10-16-2012, 11:16 PM
Gawd, I wish I was a bookie and taking bets on who'll win the election right now!

mngundog
10-16-2012, 11:27 PM
they thought biden won to
Come on now if you watched Fox they thought Ryan won. :D

huntinman
10-16-2012, 11:31 PM
Come on now if you watched Fox they thought Ryan won. :D

He did. The other old goat was just acting like a drunk... That wasn't debating.

mngundog
10-16-2012, 11:41 PM
It was my understanding that after the debate Biden was charged with child abuse for putting a beating on a 12 year old boy by the name of Ryan. :D

huntinman
10-16-2012, 11:45 PM
Was that right after he molested the high school cheerleaders?

windycanyon
10-16-2012, 11:48 PM
Where has Obama been the last 4 yrs? hes been the Pres is record stinks hes talking like hes coming in fresh.

On vacation somewhere exotic eating lobsta w/ Michelle and the girls and the dog using Air Force 1 at tax payers' expense, why of course.

Jon Hass
10-17-2012, 12:13 AM
Romney 2, Obama 0. Candy Crowley should have kept her fat mouth shut. She was supposed to be a moderator not an advocate for the Obama campaign. I am atleast glad Obama tried. Now noone can blame his stupidity and inability to defend his record on not having a teleprompter or not being prepared.

gmhr1
10-17-2012, 12:28 AM
Candy Crowly just issued a statement walkin it back saying she was WRONG about her comment on obama calling it a terror attack the day after in the rose garden, I hope she admits this before the start of the next debate. Voters need to be set straight!
Who is the moderator for Monday ?

gmhr1
10-17-2012, 12:32 AM
IN the VP debate Paul Ryan was taught to respect his elders and he did a good job the moderator said biden frightened her me to!

helencalif
10-17-2012, 03:21 AM
What is sad is this ... the fact checkers will be out tomorrow, but the folks who watched the debate tonight won't be paying attention. I bet few of them now know (or will know) that Crowley did walk back her statement. I am wondering ... she is a TV journalist of many years. How could she NOT know that Obama did not say in the rose garden the next day that it was a terrorist attack.

As far as interrupting and "equal"time for the candidates... the time was not equal. Romney had 3+ minutes LESS time than Obama. Doesn't sound like much, but ... that's a lot of lost minutes because Crowley kept saying to Romney that she would come back to him, but she didn't. She let Obama's statements stand without Romney getting a chance for rebuttal and moved on to the next question.

Helen

road kill
10-17-2012, 07:05 AM
What a disgrace!

Franco
10-17-2012, 07:35 AM
The day after in the Rose Garden, Obama said "act of terror". Which any murder is an act or terror. Obama was refering to an act of terror as a result of the video on Youtube. What the administration denied for days was that the murders were a preplanned attack by terrorist. Huge difference and Candy Crowley and CNN should be ashamed.

road kill
10-17-2012, 07:42 AM
The day after in the Rose Garden, Obama said "act of terror". Which any murder is an act or terror. Obama was refering to an act of terror as a result of the video on Youtube. What the administration denied for days was that the murders were a preplanned attack by terrorist. Huge difference and Candy Crowley and CNN should be ashamed.
Franco,
I hope I can articulate this thought.

WE should all be ashamed.
We have sat idly by and let this happen.
Our values, morals, ethics, integrity and standards have been dumbed down to the point it may not be salvagable.

"How are you different from Bush??"

Hey, I got one for ya....."How are you different than Carter?"

I fairness to Obama, how is he supposed to answer the question?


Again, disgraceful.....................

coachmo
10-17-2012, 08:19 AM
Stan,
I couldn't agree more. The citizens of these United State of America are to blame for what is happening to us right now!

Julie R.
10-17-2012, 08:32 AM
The bias of that moderator was disgusting. Hey Mr. President, if you're going to take credit for killing Osama bin Laden because the Navy did it during your Presidency, then you also need to take the blame for our State Dept. officials being killed by terrorists on your watch.

Jason Glavich
10-17-2012, 08:35 AM
The bit on retirement was pretty funny Obama could not shut him up fast enoug, only thinbg he could say is his retirement isn't as large.

The moderator was wrong in playing umpire, she also could not keep control of time at all.

BonMallari
10-17-2012, 09:08 AM
Franco,
I hope I can articulate this thought.

WE should all be ashamed.
We have sat idly by and let this happen.
Our values, morals, ethics, integrity and standards have been dumbed down to the point it may not be salvagable.

"How are you different from Bush??"

Hey, I got one for ya....."How are you different than Carter?"

I fairness to Obama, how is he supposed to answer the question?


Again, disgraceful.....................


without a doubt the stupidest question in the whole debate season

Dustin D
10-17-2012, 09:15 AM
Win for Romney.

Anyone catch the part where Romney kept looking at ODrama calling him out and ODrama gave him the hand gesture pointing back towards the crowd. It was easily understood as

"Stop talking towards me b/c then the cameras aim towards me then I look stupid hearing you call me out and I look down"

Loved it!

Romney had to butt in a several times and STILL got out timed by 3+ minutes!

Mike Boufford
10-17-2012, 09:55 AM
On vacation somewhere exotic eating lobsta w/ Michelle and the girls and the dog using Air Force 1 at tax payers' expense, why of course.

Do you mean the $1.4 BILLION we spend on carting the Obama family all over the place for their vacations? It's amazing that by contrast, the Brits spend $57 million on the entire royal family.

gmhr1
10-17-2012, 09:55 AM
Liberal moderators always give more time to the Pres last two have done it. Crowly issued a statement saying she made a mistake with the terror attack comment wonder when that will go public I guess on her Sunday show and Romney can use it next monday obama will eat cheese on that one. Romney laid out a plan last night the one focus group showed almost all changing from bo to Romney they said they heard what they needed. Obama cant say anything because he has a failed past if you destroyed us in 4 yrs, how will you fix us in 4 if you can do all the wonderful things where have you been? its OVER! Cant run from his record.

Pete
10-17-2012, 10:15 AM
Talking over a moderater shows lack of discipline. Both candidates proved its something they lack.. Romney more than O, It reminded me of those Fb players who continually get called for personal fowls. They just can't control themselves. Both candidates lacked substance. None of them could answer the last question without getting off topic. ,,actually they had problems directly answering questions in general. But that is to be expected. The next 4 years will be business as usual no matter which one wins

road kill
10-17-2012, 10:20 AM
Talking over a moderater shows lack of discipline. Both candidates proved its something they lack.. Romney more than O, It reminded me of those Fb players who continually get called for personal fowls. They just can't control themselves. Both candidates lacked substance. None of them could answer the last question without getting off topic. ,,actually they had problems directly answering questions in general. But that is to be expected. The next 4 years will be business as usual no matter which one wins
If I understand you correctly, from what you have seen, Obama and Romney are the same and either man will yield the same results?

Is this correct??


REALLY???

Julie R.
10-17-2012, 10:24 AM
I've been sort of lukewarm about Romney but liked him better after the first debate. He'll get my vote as the lesser of the two evils candidates, but I liked him less in the second debate, he sounded almost as petulant as BHO. To his credit however, Romney clearly had to fight to finish his comments because of the blatant favoritism by that SORRY BIASED Candy Cakes woman!

gmhr1
10-17-2012, 10:25 AM
I really didnt like this town hall format, reminds me when my male dog meets another male all the hair goes up on his back he stands over him walks around in a circle, I found it creepy. I would like to hear them talk about the issues instead of a question being asked and neither one answers it. I would really like to see them read a question and answer it with a loud whistle blowing when their time is up to cut them off, NO moderator! with obama it will be business as usual with Romney as President it will be a new beginning!

Gerry Clinchy
10-17-2012, 10:39 AM
Unfortunately, I think it was a draw. One of the post debate polls put it that way, too. 30% Romney, 37% Obama, 33% draw.

Romney had some very good moments, but Obama's bombast makes him come off better than he is. Annoying that neither fella really answered the questions asked. The questions were quite specific.

Romney made a good point in that Obama's "saving" GM involved taking it to bankruptcy ... there was no getting around the bankruptcy. The question is whether it could have been done just as effectively without govt involvement.

Think more should be made of the fact that ALL prices for food, etc. are really related to the cost of energy. Also, core fact, no Pres creates jobs or changes the economy BUT their POLICIES absolutely DO either encourage the confidence that causes growth to occur; or causes capital to remain idle.

Why does nobody mention that one of the reasons we are using less oil is because the economy is constricted? At $4/gallon, people conserve by driving less. Job loss closes down offices and factories, so less oil is needed for the vacant space. More people are heating with wood instead of using oil-dependent home heating. Conservation is a good thing, but that does not mean that we have succeeded in the concept of becoming less dependent on foreign oil by developing our own energy resources. If the economy starts truly growing again, then we need our own energy resources that can support that growth. We haven't provided the environment for that.

Romney also needs to mention more often that the companies Bain Capital closed were companies that were already in trouble. That was their business: taking losers and attempting to turn them around. When that failed, they did the only thing that made sense, and closed them. That steel company got two more years of operation due to Bain. It would have closed sooner without Bain.


I'd like to hear Romney's explanation about the Chinese tire thing. There ARE sometimes reasons why individual situations, taken out of context, do not reflect overall guiding precepts.


I thought Romney scored points with asking certain questions of Obama. Obama never answered about how many energy permits he actually cut. He probably didn't know the exact number. Why, with all the questions, did nobody ask the important one: So what are you going to do differently in the next four years, Mr Obama? Romney brushed that, but never really posed the question clearly ... would have been useful even if asked rhetorically.

Did you see the look on Romney's face when Obama said he called the Benghazi attack an act of terror in the Rose Garden? I think Romney was totally stunned by that. An outright lie in front of millions of people who have read anything at all about that whole issue. Then the moderator supporting the lie ... and she walked back on it just minutes after the debate finished. Glad it came at the end, so people could remember it more clearly.

Romney had some good rebuttals ... however, Obama just kept on with the same talking points. In truth, I think Obama lost on substance, but I can understand that many would rate the debate on emotional reaction, and Obama did come off more "commanding" this time. To Romney's credit, he never gave up. Romney's closing statement could have been better.

I got a kick out of Obama explaining his actions immediately following Benghazi. Can you imagine the earful that he gave Hillary after he got the news on the attack?

M&K's Retrievers
10-17-2012, 10:40 AM
Talking over a moderater shows lack of discipline. Both candidates proved its something they lack.. Romney more than O, It reminded me of those Fb players who continually get called for personal fowls. They just can't control themselves. Both candidates lacked substance. None of them could answer the last question without getting off topic. ,,actually they had problems directly answering questions in general. But that is to be expected. The next 4 years will be business as usual no matter which one wins

Have you been away for the past 3.5 years?

Buzz
10-17-2012, 11:44 AM
The day after in the Rose Garden, Obama said "act of terror". Which any murder is an act or terror. Obama was refering to an act of terror as a result of the video on Youtube. What the administration denied for days was that the murders were a preplanned attack by terrorist. Huge difference and Candy Crowley and CNN should be ashamed.


Franco, this is total BS. I do know for a fact that the next day the administration was saying that the attack may have been pre-planned. In fact I recall seeing that comment from the administration THE DAY OF THE ATTACK. If I had more time I would find an example for you. I did a quick google search, and up comes this from the Liberal Firedog Lake from September 12th:


Initial accounts of the assault in Benghazi were attributed to popular anger over what was described as an American-made video that lampooned the Prophet Muhammad, which had been publicized by Egyptian media and led to a mob protest at the United States Embassy protest in Cairo on Tuesday. But administration officials in Washington said the attack in Libya may have been plotted in advance.
While the protesters in Cairo appeared to be genuinely outraged over the anti-Islam video, the attackers in Benghazi were armed with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. Officials said it was possible that an organized group had either been waiting for an opportunity to exploit like the protests over the video or perhaps even generated the protests as a cover for their attack.

The entire article is at: http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/12/benghazi-attacks-may-have-been-pre-planned/

If you do a little research instead of just listening to Romney hacks, you will see that the story they are peddling is untrue and slanderous.

And the truth is, locals in Benghazi are saying that the attack was in retribution for the online movie. See this NYT article. I was actually shocked that Obama didn't bring this up last night. It was new information out yesterday, maybe he wasn't up to date?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/world/africa/election-year-stakes-overshadow-nuances-of-benghazi-investigation.html?ref=politics



To Libyans who witnessed the assault and know the attackers, there is little doubt what occurred: a well-known group of local Islamist militants struck the United States Mission without any warning or protest, and they did it in retaliation for the video. That is what the fighters said at the time, speaking emotionally of their anger at the video without mentioning Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden or the terrorist strikes of 11 years earlier. And it is an explanation that tracks with their history as members of a local militant group determined to protect Libya from Western influence.

“It was the Ansar al-Shariah people,” said Mohamed Bishari, 20, a neighbor of the compound who watched the assault and described the brigade he saw leading the attack. “There was no protest or anything of that sort.”

United States intelligence agencies have reserved final judgment pending a full investigation, leaving open the possibility that anger at the video might have provided an opportunity for militants who already harbored anti-American feelings. But so far the intelligence assessments appear to square largely with local accounts. Whether the attackers are labeled “Al Qaeda cells” or “aligned with Al Qaeda,” as Republicans have suggested, depends on whether that label can be used as a generic term for a broad spectrum of Islamist militants, encompassing groups like Ansar al-Shariah whose goals were primarily local, as well as those who aspire to join a broader jihad against the West.


I don't know how anyone with an open mind could fault the administration for thinking that this thing was in response to the video. Did not protests break out all across the Muslim world. To flat out deny the connection is to deny reality and common sense. I respect the administration for not coming out half cocked with a story before investigating. That is how reasonable and responsible people do things...

Back into my hole... I really don't have time to do research for a bunch of folks that don't really have any interest in the truth.

huntinman
10-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Franco, this is total BS. I do know for a fact that the next day the administration was saying that the attack may have been pre-planned. In fact I recall seeing that comment from the administration THE DAY OF THE ATTACK. If I had more time I would find an example for you. I did a quick google search, and up comes this from the Liberal Firedog Lake from September 12th:



The entire article is at: http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/12/benghazi-attacks-may-have-been-pre-planned/

If you do a little research instead of just listening to Romney hacks, you will see that the story they are peddling is untrue and slanderous.

So why did Obama and his hacks spend the next two weeks blaming the video... Including Obama's speech at the UN?

Franco
10-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Franco, this is total BS. I do know for a fact that the next day the administration was saying that the attack may have been pre-planned. In fact I recall seeing that comment from the administration THE DAY OF THE ATTACK. If I had more time I would find an example for you. I did a quick google search, and up comes this from the Liberal Firedog Lake from September 12th:



The entire article is at: http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/12/benghazi-attacks-may-have-been-pre-planned/

If you do a little research instead of just listening to Romney hacks, you will see that the story they are peddling is untrue and slanderous.

Back on September 28th, Crowley was saying that the Obama administration needed to explain why they didn’t call what happened in Libya a terrorist attack. The CNN transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1209/28/sitroom.02.html) tells all:
The question I think too is what you asked and Peter King wouldn’t play, but the idea is why would you be so adamant? When most people look and said, well of course it’s a terrorist attack. I mean, they had you know large weaponry. It’s not something you bring to a protest. And now we’re finding out there might not even have been a protest at the time this attack took place. So I think there are lots of questions to be answered here that the administration is going to have to talk about.
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/17/candy-crowley-admits-romney-was-right-on-libya/

Then, why is Crowley backpeddling?

M&K's Retrievers
10-17-2012, 11:58 AM
Franco, this is total BS. I do know for a fact that the next day the administration was saying that the attack may have been pre-planned. In fact I recall seeing that comment from the administration THE DAY OF THE ATTACK. If I had more time I would find an example for you. I did a quick google search, and up comes this from the Liberal Firedog Lake from September 12th:



The entire article is at: http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/12/benghazi-attacks-may-have-been-pre-planned/

If you do a little research instead of just listening to Romney hacks, you will see that the story they are peddling is untrue and slanderous.

I guess that's why Crowley refuted her statement to Romney about Libya on CNN after the debate. Just maybe it is you who should devote more time to research. Obama and his entire staff denied that terrorist had anything to do with the attack for two weeks.

Buzz, you are just looking for a pony in that pile of horse crap.

Brian Cockfield
10-17-2012, 12:01 PM
Sorry Buzz, but the whole Benghazi debacle stinks. I have a personal interest in how things were handled over there and the bottom line is good men were killed because of incompetence in the current administration. For OPSEC reasons, I will not elaborate any further on this issue but I can tell you it was handled terribly and lies were told to the public.

Buzz
10-17-2012, 12:06 PM
So why did Obama and his hacks spend the next two weeks blaming the video... Including Obama's speech at the UN?


You would have to read the rest of my post. I edited it a few times and I guess folks were already commenting on it...

Buzz
10-17-2012, 12:08 PM
Back on September 28th, Crowley was saying that the Obama administration needed to explain why they didn’t call what happened in Libya a terrorist attack. The CNN transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1209/28/sitroom.02.html) tells all:
The question I think too is what you asked and Peter King wouldn’t play, but the idea is why would you be so adamant? When most people look and said, well of course it’s a terrorist attack. I mean, they had you know large weaponry. It’s not something you bring to a protest. And now we’re finding out there might not even have been a protest at the time this attack took place. So I think there are lots of questions to be answered here that the administration is going to have to talk about.
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/17/candy-crowley-admits-romney-was-right-on-libya/

Then, why is Crowley backpeddling?




I can only point out what I was reading on 9-11 and 9-12. I have no idea what Crowley is up to or what was said on CNN. Lot of BS out there. You can believe Romney and his minions for all I care...

Buzz
10-17-2012, 12:09 PM
Sorry Buzz, but the whole Benghazi debacle stinks. I have a personal interest in how things were handled over there and the bottom line is good men were killed because of incompetence in the current administration. For OPSEC reasons, I will not elaborate any further on this issue but I can tell you it was handled terribly and lies were told to the public.


I suppose you have heard the phrase, "the fog of war?"

road kill
10-17-2012, 12:14 PM
I suppose you have heard the phrase, "the fog of war?"
Yep, heard it just this past week being used as an excuse for botched security and Chain of Command communications.

Is that what you are referring to?????:cool:

Buzz
10-17-2012, 12:16 PM
I guess that's why Crowley refuted her statement to Romney about Libya on CNN after the debate. Just maybe it is you who should devote more time to research. Obama and his entire staff denied that terrorist had anything to do with the attack for two weeks.

Buzz, you are just looking for a pony in that pile of horse crap.


Impossible for me to keep up with right wing lies. Crowley did not walk back her comments, it is just another right wing lie.

Here is what she said:


Following the debate, Crowley appeared on CNN and addressed (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1210/16/se.04.html) her fact-check of Romney during the debate:
CROWLEY: Well, you know, again, I heard the president's speech at the time. I sort of re-read a lot of stuff about Libya because I knew we'd probably get a Libya question, so I kind of wanted to be up on it. So we knew that the president had said, you know, these acts of terror won't stand or whatever the whole quote was.
And I think, actually, you know, because right after that, I did turn around and say, but you are totally correct that they spent two weeks telling us this was about a tape and that there was a -- you know, this riot outside the Benghazi consulate, which there wasn't.
So he was right in the main, I just think he picked the wrong word. And I -- you know, they're going to parse and we all know about what the definition of is is, but, you know, in the end, I think John's probably right. I think there's a lot more to do with jobs and the debt crisis, and all of that kind of stuff. I just think probably it was one of those moments, and I could even feel that here.

These subsequent comments were consistent with what Crowley had said during the debate. Nevertheless, right-wing media outlets including The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/17/cnns-crowley-backtracks-romney-right-in-the-main-on-benghazi/), Breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/10/16/Crowley-Saves-Obama-with-false-fact-check), and Fox News seized on Crowley's CNN appearance to claim that she had backtracked from what she had said during the debate.

Did any of you ever look at the transcript of the speech in the rose garden. Didn't think so.


Crowley was correct. The day after the attack, Obama addressed the nation from the White House Rose Garden and said (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/12/remarks-president-deaths-us-embassy-staff-libya):
As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.

Mike Boufford
10-17-2012, 12:17 PM
I suppose you have heard the phrase, "the fog of war?"

The only fog which exists is between Obama's ears. Had he actually sat in on his staff meetings, perhaps he would have had some clue as to what is going on in the world. Oh wait a minute, he was too busy vacationing, golfing or campaigning to bother which such trivial matters clearly below an intellect of his capabilities.

Buzz
10-17-2012, 12:19 PM
Back on September 28th, Crowley was saying that the Obama administration needed to explain why they didn’t call what happened in Libya a terrorist attack. The CNN transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1209/28/sitroom.02.html) tells all:
The question I think too is what you asked and Peter King wouldn’t play, but the idea is why would you be so adamant? When most people look and said, well of course it’s a terrorist attack. I mean, they had you know large weaponry. It’s not something you bring to a protest. And now we’re finding out there might not even have been a protest at the time this attack took place. So I think there are lots of questions to be answered here that the administration is going to have to talk about.
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/17/candy-crowley-admits-romney-was-right-on-libya/

Then, why is Crowley backpeddling?





Franco,

Please explain how I was able to come up with articles from 9-12 with comments from the administration that this was a pre-planed attack, that it was not a spur of the moment thing if the administration did not in fact say that?

Enjoy your day. I have real work to do.

menmon
10-17-2012, 12:26 PM
All women should be happy today because Romney if elected will let them leave work early to go home and cook and clean.

More free trade with latin america should put the workers in OH, WI, MI and PENN at ease don't you think.

I feel better knowing that Romney if elected is going to make sure the Chinesse peg their currency higher, right.

I rest easier knowing that Romney differs from Bush being a small business man instead of a big business man like Bush.

I would turned out a lot better and been less violent in my youth if I had 2 parents living at home. Tell me Romney, how are you going to change that.

Oh yea, I should have asked daddy to pay for my college. That would have been hard since he is dead.

Is there a single person on this forum that does not have their head stuck up the GOP A>>

Buzz
10-17-2012, 12:36 PM
All women should be happy today because Romney if elected will let them leave work early to go home and cook and clean.

More free trade with latin america should put the workers in OH, WI, MI and PENN at ease don't you think.

I feel better knowing that Romney if elected is going to make sure the Chinesse peg their currency higher, right.

I rest easier knowing that Romney differs from Bush being a small business man instead of a big business man like Bush.

I would turned out a lot better and been less violent in my youth if I had 2 parents living at home. Tell me Romney, how are you going to change that.

Oh yea, I should have asked daddy to pay for my college. That would have been hard since he is dead.

Is there a single person on this forum that does not have their head stuck up the GOP A>>

I don't know. There is you, and there is me... But I'm not really even a part timer on this forum...

Franco
10-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Franco,

Please explain how I was able to come up with articles from 9-12 with comments from the administration that this was a pre-planed attack, that it was not a spur of the moment thing if the administration did not in fact say that?

Enjoy your day. I have real work to do.

Buzz, all this does is confirm what I said in post #47!

The current administration is using symantics to cover their butt. All murder is an act of terror. And, there was speculation soon after that this might have been an act by Terrorist, but not from the administration. They were still claiming it was due to the youtube video!

Plus, I don't have a dog in this fight. I am voting Libertarian so, I can look at this with open eyes!

ARay11
10-17-2012, 12:51 PM
The new jobs in America might be filled by those hired to fact check these guys energy claims. -Boone

I feel the only one with a real, tangible, RIGHT NOW effective energy plan is Mr. Romney. I do understand looking to the future, but we need change right now.



Romney just busted Obama on the retirement investments... Obama could not cut him off fast enough.
anyone else find it odd that our president doesnt know the difference between a pension and retirement savings???


Anyone else in support of a candidate UFC cage match?? Put um' in the octagon! J Ventura
absolutely!! No holds barred!!



What is sad is this ... the fact checkers will be out tomorrow, but the folks who watched the debate tonight won't be paying attention. I bet few of them now know (or will know) that Crowley did walk back her statement. I am wondering ... she is a TV journalist of many years. How could she NOT know that Obama did not say in the rose garden the next day that it was a terrorist attack.

As far as interrupting and "equal"time for the candidates... the time was not equal. Romney had 3+ minutes LESS time than Obama. Doesn't sound like much, but ... that's a lot of lost minutes because Crowley kept saying to Romney that she would come back to him, but she didn't. She let Obama's statements stand without Romney getting a chance for rebuttal and moved on to the next question.

Helen
I missed the "real time" debate..but had it DVR'd. I was attending an OSU Master Cattleman's class. I say that to point out... I was in a room with probably 20 other rural living, majority self employed, "cattle" folks... all but myself and 1 other were men.. "manly men" .... The prof. asked if anyone was upset about missing the debate. I was astounded that every man in the room acted as though the debate were a waste of time. NONE and I mean N-O-N-E were concerned or even cared to listen. I suppose it is because they have already made up their minds... or perhaps it's because beef prices are soaring and it probably won't matter who is president. I say all this to point out.... the fact checkers may be out in force, but I think fewer than ever watched the debate and even fewer still will give a hoot about fact checkers.... at least that's the mood in this part of the country.


[QUOTE=menmon;1023232]All women should be happy today because Romney if elected will let them leave work early to go home and cook and clean

FACT CHECK: Women DO need flexible hours to handle kids, home, etc. It's a culture that needs changing and it takes leadership to change it. He led in Mass and made those changes in his own cabinet. LEAD BY WORKS.

menmon
10-17-2012, 12:56 PM
You might want to consider something he said about no tax on interest and dividends and no capital gains for the middle class.

How many middle class americans have interest and dividend income outside their 401Ks and IRAs? Looks like an upper class tax cut.

How much in capital gains do you guys have? Looks like an upper class tax cut

Mike Boufford
10-17-2012, 01:20 PM
You might want to consider something he said about no tax on interest and dividends and no capital gains for the middle class.

How many middle class americans have interest and dividend income outside their 401Ks and IRAs? Looks like an upper class tax cut.

How much in capital gains do you guys have? Looks like an upper class tax cut

Just because you and yours do not invest beyond what is available in tax deferred savings doesn't mean that others in the less than 250k bracket follow your lead. My 29 year old son is struggling to make it on his own as a businessman yet he still seems to be able to save via an investment plan of his own creation (I know, Obama did that for him).

Capital gains go beyond dividends. Sell some property sometime and see how the capital gain is taxed.

I am sure that you want to go back to the Clinton tax which is what happens when the Bush tax cuts are rescinded Do you receive tuition assistance as a benefit from your employer? If so, then expect to pay a tax on that. Obama's plan for estate taxes? 55% for those who managed to save and invest more than $1,000,000. My father in law worked for Bell as a line supervisor, hardly an upper class position, and turned his estate into a million dollar value which is sitting mostly in t-bills, and his residence (1,500 ft2 3 bedroom brick ranch). When his wife dies, Obama will take 55% of that money. Does that seem fair for someone who made no more than $50,000 per year in his lifetime yet was successful in his invetments?

Getting back to one of your previous posts, it appears that your head is stuck square in Mao's Little Red Book.

Worked my way through two degrees regards.....

HPL
10-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Well, I just barely sneak into the middle class from the bottom and I have some stock outside a 401K etc that pays dividends and I do have a couple of garage apts that we rent to college students that might some day give me a capitol gain.

Buzz
10-17-2012, 01:31 PM
Just because you and yours do not invest beyond what is available in tax deferred savings doesn't mean that others in the less than 250k bracket follow your lead. My 29 year old son is struggling to make it on his own as a businessman yet he still seems to be able to save via an investment plan of his own creation (I know, Obama did that for him).

Capital gains go beyond dividends. Sell some property sometime and see how the capital gain is taxed.

I am sure that you want to go back to the Clinton tax which is what happens when the Bush tax cuts are rescinded Do you receive tuition assistance as a benefit from your employer? If so, then expect to pay a tax on that. Obama's plan for estate taxes? 55% for those who managed to save and invest more than $1,000,000. My father in law worked for Bell as a line supervisor, hardly an upper class position, and turned his estate into a million dollar value which is sitting mostly in t-bills, and his residence (1,500 ft2 3 bedroom brick ranch). When his wife dies, Obama will take 55% of that money. Does that seem fair for someone who made no more than $50,000 per year in his lifetime yet was successful in his invetments?

Getting back to one of your previous posts, it appears that your head is stuck square in Mao's Little Red Book.

Worked my way through two degrees regards.....


Can you document that Obama wants 55% of estates over a million?

How will your father-in-law's estate of a million get taxed at 55% if the tax only applies to estates over a million?

I do not believe he is going to set the estate cutoff at a million, and I don't believe it will be 55%. But I will believe you if it show me...

dmccarty
10-17-2012, 01:47 PM
You guys can argue all you want about the debates. I fear that O will win re-election because he has the vote of the takers. They're not watching the debates. And there are a lot more takers than there are people who want to work hard, start at the bottom and work up to a better financial life. 99 months of unemployment bennies, food stamps, WIC, CalFresh, MediCal, etc etc. The government will give you formula (for your baby) which you can then turn around and sell on Craigslist, take the money and pay for the addiction of your choice. Want to own a home but you work at a fast food restaurant and have 4 kids? That's okay, the government will help pick up what you can't afford to pay, because by gosh you deserve to be happy. I saw the new government subsidized housing here in my area. The apartments had granite countertops and patio doors with glass, with the blinds enclosed in the double paned glass. That's nicer than my home, and I worked my ash off as a single mother to buy mine. Entitlement reigns, and so will Obama. I fear there are not enough people that just want: a fair shot at a job, plan to work hard to be successful, and save money so they can take advantage of opportunities to improve their lives when they arise.

I would LOVE to see mandatory community service for all government subsidization program participants. The more you serve your community, the more money you qualify for. That's what we in the working sector call a JOB.

We are headed down a long slide to Socialism and that deeply troubles me. I fought for my country in my younger days, and I KNOW that there are very few places on Earth as good as the USA. I hate to see what it is becoming.

ARay11
10-17-2012, 02:30 PM
The proposalHow it would workBuffett Rule.People making more than $1 million would pay a minimum of 30% in federal taxes, but it's unclear what counts as income or if the proposal creates a income tax bracket.Keep Bush tax cuts for almost all.The top 2 income tax brackets would increase from 33% and 35% to 36% and 39.6% -- what they were under Bill Clinton. In other words, single filers making more than $178,650, married-jointly folks making more than $217,450 and head-of-household filers making more than $198,050 would get a tax increase.Change estate tax.The estate tax would jump by 10 percentage points from 35% to 45% with a $3.5 million exemption.Limit itemized deductions for the rich.Taxpayers in the top two income tax brackets would see their itemized deductions drop from 33% or 35% to 28%.Raise taxes on investment fund managers.Currently, managers of private equities and hedge funds pay 15% on capital gains (aka "carried interest"). This proposal would tax capital gains at regular income levels, instead of a flat tax.Make the American opportunity credit permanent.Allows college filers to get up to $2,500 a year in tax credit for college expenses.

Read more: Obamas 2013 Budget Takes Aim At Wealthy | Bankrate.com (http://www.bankrate.com/finance/news/obama-2013-budget-takes-aim-at-wealthy.aspx#ixzz29a9Orhpr) http://www.bankrate.com/finance/news/obama-2013-budget-takes-aim-at-wealthy.aspx#ixzz29a9Orhpr

not sure how reliable this story is, but its from bankrate.com

M&K's Retrievers
10-17-2012, 02:32 PM
Impossible for me to keep up with right wing lies. Crowley did not walk back her comments, it is just another right wing lie.

Here is what she said:



Did any of you ever look at the transcript of the speech in the rose garden. Didn't think so.

Buzz you know very well there is a difference in "act of terror" and "terrorist attack". Murder by a random mob (Obama's explanation) is indeed an act of terror performed in an instant without planning. That is what Obama refers to in the Rose Garden and later admitted by Crowley. This terrorist attack (denied by Obama) was a predetermined, planned exercise done by a recognized terrorist organization. Big difference.

menmon
10-17-2012, 02:36 PM
So you let someone slid on millions and billions of capital gains so you can save $5000 in capital gains tax sometime in the future. Capital gains and dividend income is not your primary source of income...it is for Romney

duckheads
10-17-2012, 03:43 PM
So you let someone slid on millions and billions of capital gains so you can save $5000 in capital gains tax sometime in the future. Capital gains and dividend income is not your primary source of income...it is for Romney

So what? Can you blame very wealthy people for taking their money off shore when there are a bunch of idiots wanting to confiscate their acquired wealth? I don't care if they earned it, inherited it or made it the porno business. It's theirs and they want the government to take as little as possible, just like the majority of Americans. Isn't that the goal of accountants and tax attorneys, to decrease one's tax burden as much as possible? I would like to know how many bleeding heart liberals send in money on top of what they owe in taxes to take care of the needy? My uneducated guess would be a big fat goose egg! Buffet, Cuban, Maher, and all the other wealthy libs should put their money where their mouth is! If they say they can afford to pay more taxes then by all means cut a check That includes anyone on here also. Cut a check!

Franco
10-17-2012, 08:09 PM
Here is Crowley's backtracking this morning.


Listen, what I said on that stage is the same thing I said to you, actually, last night. What I was trying to do ... I was trying to move this along. The question was Benghazi. There is no question that the administration is quite vulnerable on this topic — that they did take weeks to go, “Well, actually, there really wasn’t a protest and actually didn’t have anything to do with the tape. That took a long time. That’s where he was going. That was his first answer. And then we got hung up on this, “Yes, he said. No, I didn’t. I said terror. You didn’t say terror.” And then there was this point they both kind of looked at me. You know, he was looking at me and the president was looking at me. And what I wanted to move this along — could we get back to this? So I said, “He did say acts of terror, called it an act of terror. But Governor Romney, you are perfectly right that it took weeks for them to get past the tape.

coachmo
10-17-2012, 08:53 PM
menmon, how did you get your head so far up your own azz is what I'm wondering? Just asking. Since you inquired about everyone else.

windycanyon
10-17-2012, 10:32 PM
All women should be happy today because Romney if elected will let them leave work early to go home and cook and clean.

<snip> Is there a single person on this forum that does not have their head stuck up the GOP A>>

Single, woman and small business owner here Menmon.
Romney has my support.
Obama never really had it and REALLY lost any faith I may have had these past 4 yrs.

I'm sorry for your apparently bad upbringing but though I'm not exactly "privileged", I think Obama is SCARY.

Buzz
10-17-2012, 11:03 PM
You guys can argue all you want about the debates. I fear that O will win re-election because he has the vote of the takers. They're not watching the debates. And there are a lot more takers than there are people who want to work hard, start at the bottom and work up to a better financial life. 99 months of unemployment bennies, food stamps, WIC, CalFresh, MediCal, etc etc.

You have a pretty poor opinion of America.

dmccarty
10-18-2012, 01:56 AM
I have a realistic opinion of America. Come to California and look around. Tell me what you see.

And to edit my first post, it should have said 99 weeks of unemployment not months.

Gerry Clinchy
10-18-2012, 10:28 AM
Buzz, I think it's fair to say that not everyone who pays $0 in taxes is "on the dole". There can be working people who are in low-paying jobs that still end up in the no-tax-due position. However, even those who are working could be under the misimpression that all safety nets would be removed with a new administration ... that is the fear being planted by the Obama campaign.

OTOH, I think that there is plenty of waste/fraud in the welfare system, even the SSI system, that can be remedied. I can recall that not long ago a man was identified in Philadelphia collecting welfare under 7 different names! I have seen the system "gamed" first-hand. Until we find a means of detecting fraud (and/or waste) we will never quite know the extent of the problem.

Gerry Clinchy
10-18-2012, 10:39 AM
About Romney and women in high-level positions:



Mitt Romney’s second-in-command when he was governor of Massachusetts and a coalition of women's groups rallied Wednesday behind the Republican presidential nominee in the face of a rapidly expanding Internet phenomenon poking fun at his "binders full of women."

The supporters said Romney, indeed, asked for and received binders with names of potential female candidates for high-level posts -- backing up his claim in Tuesday night's debate that as governor he had reached out to women's groups because he was dissatisfied with the mostly male applicants for jobs in his administration.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/17/women-including-ex-cabinet-members-rally-around-romney-binder-project/#ixzz29f20lAON



The Massachusetts Government Appointments Project -- which began before Romney was elected in 2002 -- acknowledged the number of women in top positions increased under Romney.

According to a survey conducted by the University of New York in Albany at the time, the Romney administration had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America.



It seems to have been forgotten that not long ago, a survey of women's compensation within the Obama staff found that women on his staff were paid less than men doing the same kinds of jobs. So, Obama could not point to a record of equal pay for women within his own administration as an answer to the debate question. Perhaps the administration believes the Lily Ledbetter law should not have to pertain to the WH? Selective law enforcement, as with immigration law?

gmhr1
10-18-2012, 08:36 PM
Maybe obama should look at his pension Ronmney doesn't have one
As president, he will receive $191,300 annually for life — win or lose in next month’s election — and receives a travel allotment as well as mailing privileges. Should Obama lose, his presidential pension kicks in immediately after leaving office.
Given that the president enjoys a normal life span, the pension allotment would be worth upwards of $6 million.
The federal budget spends about $3 million annually for the four living ex-presidents. Obama also will get Secret Service protection.
In addition, Obama may be due a nice pension for the eight years he served in the Illinois