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Marvin S
12-03-2012, 11:50 AM
How many of you follow this? Is this just negotiating or are the principle players locked in to their positions? Do you believe that negotiating in the MSM is helping the situation? What do you believe should be the outcome, with specifics?

& separately, what's your opinion of Costco borrowing money to pay a special dividend - noting that Sinegal, the founder, was a big Obama supporter, specifically his support for taxing the !%? Hypocritical?

BonMallari
12-03-2012, 01:21 PM
personally I think its a dog and pony show similar to the one they had about raising the debt limit...its a stupid game of "political chicken"...both sides will play a game pf brinksmanship, and both sides will claim victory

mngundog
12-03-2012, 01:54 PM
personally I think its a dog and pony show similar to the one they had about raising the debt limit...its a stupid game of "political chicken"...both sides will play a game pf brinksmanship, and both sides will claim victory
Well, put.

Franco
12-03-2012, 03:16 PM
"The biggest problem today is not that our leaders cannot come to an agreement. It’s that they are trying to satisfy the irreconcilable views of Americans: We want government to do everything—but we want our freedom." - Don Watkins (http://www.facebook.com/DonWatkinsWriter)

Franco
12-04-2012, 06:15 PM
The Fiscal Cliff is not the problem...insightful read.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/fiscal-cliffs-not-problem

Larry Thompson1
12-04-2012, 08:43 PM
The Fiscal Cliff is not the problem...insightful read.


http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/fiscal-cliffs-not-problem

Well what can we do about it?

Franco
12-04-2012, 10:12 PM
Well what can we do about it?

The two biggest courses of action we could take is to reform Medicare & Medicaid so that people can no longer abuse it stealing it blind and the other is to downsize the Federal Government. Like anything run by the government, there is theft and waste into the billions.

Larry Thompson1
12-05-2012, 07:31 AM
The two biggest courses of action we could take is to reform Medicare & Medicaid so that people can no longer abuse it stealing it blind and the other is to downsize the Federal Government. Like anything run by the government, there is theft and waste into the billions.

I agree but the idiots in washington won't do that so what can we do? We live in a socialist society now, are we doomed to go bankrupt?

Franco
12-05-2012, 07:51 AM
I agree but the idiots in washington won't do that so what can we do? We live in a socialist society now, are we doomed to go bankrupt?

We are already over the Fiscal Cliff and bankrupt. What can we do about it? How about we start supporting candidates that advocate a Balance Budget Amendment and downsizing government instead of where they stand on social issues. Leaders that are willing to end the Federal Reserve and return monetary policy to the Congress and not international banking. In doing so though, we have to be careful in electing politicians that really believe in this and not just mouthing the words because they sound good.

menmon
12-05-2012, 01:44 PM
Honestly...I think the tax cuts need to expire for everyone and the spending get cut across the board. Then it is not up to congress anymore. I think the economy can afford it, but people will get hurt but our runaway budget gets addressed.

Now if I thought folks would agree....I think the lower income houses should keep their tax breaks and the higher income bear the burden while defense should take a major cut to keep from touching entitlements like social security and medicare.

Franco
12-05-2012, 04:28 PM
Honestly...I think the tax cuts need to expire for everyone and the spending get cut across the board. Then it is not up to congress anymore. I think the economy can afford it, but people will get hurt but our runaway budget gets addressed.

Now if I thought folks would agree....I think the lower income houses should keep their tax breaks and the higher income bear the burden while defense should take a major cut to keep from touching entitlements like social security and medicare.

Social Security is not an entitlement. Medicare and Medicaid are and if they are not addressed soon, we could very well be worse off than Greece. Tax increases on those earning above $250,000 is just campaign rhetoric and won't solve a thing. It was Obama's way of appealing to the lowest common denominator, his class warfare. Spending on Medicare and Medicaid is out of control! I have no problem with cutting the Military Budget and leaving Defense alone. But until we are willing to address both Medis, the problem will only get worse.

LokiMeister
12-06-2012, 10:05 AM
Here is another good article: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/12/04/4-questions-to-understand-the-fiscal-cliff.aspx

Marvin S
12-06-2012, 10:18 AM
Social Security is not an entitlement. Medicare and Medicaid are and if they are not addressed soon, we could very well be worse off than Greece. Tax increases on those earning above $250,000 is just campaign rhetoric and won't solve a thing. It was Obama's way of appealing to the lowest common denominator, his class warfare. Spending on Medicare and Medicaid is out of control! I have no problem with cutting the Military Budget and leaving Defense alone. But until we are willing to address both Medis, the problem will only get worse.

Franco - maybe you can explain your reasons for believing this :confused:. I paid 2.9% of the maximum into Medicare prior to retirement & now pay close to $100 per month as a premium with &150 deductible, also pay for a drug plan & have never came near the donut hole. Do you know something I as a recipient don't? Should I be getting free stuff, if so tell me where :cool:.

Franco
12-06-2012, 11:01 AM
Franco - maybe you can explain your reasons for believing this :confused:. I paid 2.9% of the maximum into Medicare prior to retirement & now pay close to $100 per month as a premium with &150 deductible, also pay for a drug plan & have never came near the donut hole. Do you know something I as a recipient don't? Should I be getting free stuff, if so tell me where :cool:.

One of the biggest reasons Medicare is going broke is the fact that too many providers have a license to steal from it. From doctors to medical equipement providers, many have thier hands in the till. Medicare is setup more to provide quantity of care rather than quality of care, hence the waste and abuse. Add in the fraud and the fact that the government manages it and you have a recipe for going broke.

Gun_Dog2002
12-06-2012, 11:09 AM
We are already over the Fiscal Cliff and bankrupt. What can we do about it? How about we start supporting candidates that advocate a Balance Budget Amendment and downsizing government instead of where they stand on social issues. Leaders that are willing to end the Federal Reserve and return monetary policy to the Congress and not international banking. In doing so though, we have to be careful in electing politicians that really believe in this and not just mouthing the words because they sound good.

Didn't we just vote for that?

/Paul

Franco
12-06-2012, 11:12 AM
Didn't we just vote for that?

/Paul

Vote for what, Santa Claus?

Lesa Cozens Dauphin
12-06-2012, 11:27 AM
I have been paying into Social Security and Medicare since I went to work at 16. They aren't entitlements to me...it is MY money.

lesa c

mngundog
12-06-2012, 11:35 AM
I have been paying into Social Security and Medicare since I went to work at 16. They aren't entitlements to me...it is MY money.

lesa c
The program allows people that have been citizens for only 5 years into the program.

Uncle Bill
12-06-2012, 11:40 AM
The regime is only after breaking the Republicans apart. Obama has no intentions of balancing anything. He's totally hell-bent on punishing his rivals, with his demands for higher rates on the wealthy. If you fools believe his "rate war" will resolve the deficite problems, then you are bigger fools than your 'prince' is. You can bet he KNOWS his tax increases will do nothing but make the Republicans bow to him, and give him his REAL victory.

The difference between what each party has proffered as a form of "getting together", and working across the isle, is a real yawner... I think it works out to be 18% cuts by the Republicans, and 12% by the Obamaites. The fact of the matter is, while we here the word "cuts" bantied about, by now everyone must realize these are NOT "bugetary cuts" like you would do to your personal budget to get your spending down...these are just 'cuts' in the previously proposed budget increases. So even an across the board 'cut' of 10% would mean that particular item would receive the same amount it did last fiscal year.

The other word that is meant to fool the sheeple is revenues, as opposed to taxes, which is what they are. Or 'investing' as opposed to spending. And the socialists applaud our broken school and education system...which just keeps the sheeple dumbed down so they can be easily controlled by their leadership. This oligarchy has them right where they want them, and their immigration system just adds to their proletariat numbers for any upcoming election.

The analogy I've used in the past, when the debt ceiling was being argued over, is just as viable today as then... If you were gone from your home for a couple weeks, and return to find your sewer has backed up, and sewage is running out your windows, so rather than draining the sewage and clearing the plugged sewer, the Democrats want to pump more sewage into that home, so their plan is for you to go to uncle jake and aunt betty and borrow several thousand dollars so you can raise the roof.


Obama has stated he will not allow any discussion about the debt ceiling, when that comes around again. If the Republicans do ANYTHING but pass a bill to extend the FULL Bush tax cuts, they will be bowing to this ineptocracy the fools of the nation have put in place, so they can get their free ice cream. Anyone that believes Obama would accept all the money to keep the country from going over the 'cliff' without increases in the top tax rates, should pull their heads out from the spot where the sun doesn't shine.


I have called my Congresslady and Senator...(I know, even in Sodak we have two, but I won't call that brain-dead-hanger-on-so-his-pension-gets-bigger fool supporter.) and have received confirmation as to their votes to NOT vote for anything that raises tax rates. What Boener has proffered is as far as the Republicans are planning to go. If that causes us to go over the cliff, sobeit. Based on what is happening to this point, it won't be much of a drop.

UB

menmon
12-06-2012, 02:50 PM
As for as the government is concerned SS and medicare are entitlements. You are entitled to them because you paid into them...your entitled if you didn't pay into them.

Entitlements is not just free stuff.

But the point being...I don't want old people paying to get us out of this mess.

If not letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the higher brackets does not matter....why are they fighting it so hard.

No it does not get us out of the soup but it helps as will the cuts to defense and other departments...just leave the old and the poor alone is my position

PMG 131
12-06-2012, 07:39 PM
We aren't talking just about the Buffets, Gates, or the Trumps as the rich, any household making over $250k is now rich. The last time I checked that wasn't rich, that was well off but not rich. My dads small business makes enough to be "rich" but I don't see him living the life of luxury that the President likes to portray. I see a man in his 60's getting up at 0530 everyday and working till 1700 just so his business runs smoothly.

murral stark
12-06-2012, 09:39 PM
"The regime is only after breaking the Republicans apart. Obama has no intentions of balancing anything. He's totally hell-bent on punishing his rivals, with his demands for higher rates on the wealthy. If you fools believe his "rate war" will resolve the deficite problems, then you are bigger fools than your 'prince' is. You can bet he KNOWS his tax increases will do nothing but make the Republicans bow to him, and give him his REAL victory." Uncle Bill

That is what you do when you are in a fight. You crush your opponent and break their will. Don't pretend that a Rbloodlican president wouldn't do the same thing. If you believe they would "play nice" with the other side, you are the proverbial "fool" as you so freely call anybody that doesn't buy into your pre-historic mindset.

murral stark
12-06-2012, 09:40 PM
We aren't talking just about the Buffets, Gates, or the Trumps as the rich, any household making over $250k is now rich. The last time I checked that wasn't rich, that was well off but not rich. My dads small business makes enough to be "rich" but I don't see him living the life of luxury that the President likes to portray. I see a man in his 60's getting up at 0530 everyday and working till 1700 just so his business runs smoothly.

How many employees does your father's business have? Does he have a manager under him?

PMG 131
12-06-2012, 10:19 PM
7 full time and 5 part time, with several seasonal or per project. All of which make above average wages for the job and region.

murral stark
12-06-2012, 10:58 PM
7 full time and 5 part time, with several seasonal or per project. All of which make above average wages for the job and region.
Sounds like he needs to get a more efficient manager to direct the workforce. Delegate some of the tasks to people and take some of the pressure off of himself.

PMG 131
12-06-2012, 11:22 PM
Its not that simple in his business. Belive me he has tried.

murral stark
12-06-2012, 11:52 PM
Its not that simple in his business. Belive me he has tried.

Well I hope he finds a way to lighten the load on himself.

menmon
12-07-2012, 08:51 AM
The higher marginal tax rate only applies to the money one makes over $250,000 So lets say you make $300,000 of taxable income...you taxes go up $2500. I can live with that to secure my economy. Now I also want spending cuts especially in defense. It is rediculus how much money we spend on defense. We can crush anyone and they don't hold a candle to our military strength and we have found that special forces and drones are the way to fight the problems we have anyway.

Those defense workers that will lose their jobs will have to move and work in the oilfield or detriot

murral stark
12-10-2012, 06:19 PM
The problem that I see with the GOP proposal is the fact that they are not being specific on what loopholes they want to close. Sound familiar? It should, Romney said he would close loopholes, yet wouldn't specify which ones. If Boehner would specify which ones, maybe Obama would be willing to listen a little bit.

luvmylabs23139
12-10-2012, 08:01 PM
HOw about Obama quit spending so much darn money!!! CUT CUT CUT and then cut some more. Oh and make those who don't pay start coughing up some cash!

murral stark
12-10-2012, 08:12 PM
HOw about Obama quit spending so much darn money!!! CUT CUT CUT and then cut some more. Oh and make those who don't pay start coughing up some cash!
Not just Obama spending the money, it's all of the politicians spending money we don't have. It's not just one party, it's both and has been that way for a long time. How about the Rebloodlicans get specific on which loopholes they are going to close. It's just like the obamacare thing that everybody complains about. "Let's pass it first and then we'll figure out what's in there."
Those that don't pay probably don't have the cash to cough up because they live paycheck to paycheck.

luvmylabs23139
12-10-2012, 08:20 PM
The problem is the spending. Forget raising taxes on those that already pay thru the nose they will just spend more.
Eliminate a bunch of crap starting with the dept of Ed. Thats just flushing money down the toilet. Let the states do it.

murral stark
12-10-2012, 08:31 PM
The problem is the spending. Forget raising taxes on those that already pay thru the nose they will just spend more.
Eliminate a bunch of crap starting with the dept of Ed. Thats just flushing money down the toilet. Let the states do it.
Explain how trying to fund education is wasting money please. So everything should be up to the states discretion. What would the Federal govt be for then? If the states are going to have the say over everything, why is the GOP complaining about the legalizing of pot in some states? If it is going to be left up to the states and the voters of that state, don't cry when the Feds don't come in and arrest the people legally growing weed.

luvmylabs23139
12-10-2012, 08:44 PM
Carter started the dept of education. Education in this country has lost ground to other countries since then.
Lets send it completely back to local and state governments since they did a better job and it would eliminate a ton of wasteful beurocrats.
The federal gov't main purpose is defending the country!

murral stark
12-10-2012, 09:08 PM
Carter started the dept of education. Education in this country has lost ground to other countries since then.
Lets send it completely back to local and state governments since they did a better job and it would eliminate a ton of wasteful beurocrats.
The federal gov't main purpose is defending the country!

And when the states don't have enough money to sustain their education system, what then? They cut teachers out of jobs, and the ones that don't lose their job, get their pay and benefits cut. That's the way I understand it to work.

Marvin S
12-10-2012, 09:18 PM
And when the states don't have enough money to sustain their education system, what then? They cut teachers out of jobs, and the ones that don't lose their job, get their pay and benefits cut. That's the way I understand it to work.

There have been several education threads on this forum - you might read a few of those before you press submit - hopefully it would broaden your knowledge. You also might read some CATO publications on the subject.

murral stark
12-10-2012, 09:26 PM
There have been several education threads on this forum - you might read a few of those before you press submit - hopefully it would broaden your knowledge. You also might read some CATO publications on the subject.

Ok let's get back to my original statement. What loopholes is Boner going to close? Lets have specifics. Don't change the subject to something else that you want to cut without raising taxes on the wealthiest people.

charly_t
12-10-2012, 10:08 PM
Ok let's get back to my original statement. What loopholes is Boner going to close? Lets have specifics. Don't change the subject to something else that you want to cut without raising taxes on the wealthiest people.

..........................

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 06:53 AM
Ok let's get back to my original statement. What loopholes is Boner going to close? Lets have specifics. Don't change the subject to something else that you want to cut without raising taxes on the wealthiest people.

There is no reason to raise taxes on the wealthy period. The problem is spending, cut the spending.

menmon
12-11-2012, 09:34 AM
There is no reason to raise taxes on the wealthy period. The problem is spending, cut the spending.

Just need to let the tax cuts expire....that way everyone pays part of the bill and don't have to kiss some republicans ass to get it.

murral stark
12-11-2012, 05:04 PM
Just need to let the tax cuts expire....that way everyone pays part of the bill and don't have to kiss some republicans ass to get it.

that is a very good point

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 05:31 PM
I'm fine if everything expires. That would make me very happy as that stupid socialist refundable child credit started by Bush and increased by Obama would finally be gone.

murral stark
12-11-2012, 05:35 PM
I'm fine if everything expires. That would make me very happy as that stupid socialist refundable child credit started by Bush and increased by Obama would finally be gone.

What is the child credit you so despise? If it is the one that parents use to offset their childcare expenses so they can work, what's wrong with it?

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 05:42 PM
What is the child credit you so despise? If it is the one that parents use to offset their childcare expenses so they can work, what's wrong with it?

NO, the one that besides claiming them as a dependent you now get to knock $1000 bucks per kid off of your tax liability. And get this if it results in a negative tax liability the gov't sends the parents a check courtesy of the actual taxpayers.

murral stark
12-11-2012, 06:01 PM
NO, the one that besides claiming them as a dependent you now get to knock $1000 bucks per kid off of your tax liability. And get this if it results in a negative tax liability the gov't sends the parents a check courtesy of the actual taxpayers.

You obiously don't have kids. $1000 is nothing when it comes to the overall expense of providing for a child. Many years ago you could deduct 100% of your childcare expenses off of your income tax. Now, based on you income, you can only deduct a percentage of your childcare expenses (daycare). So if you spend $3000 per year to have someone take care of your child while you work, you get to deduct a small percentage off your taxes.

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 06:27 PM
You obiously don't have kids. $1000 is nothing when it comes to the overall expense of providing for a child. Many years ago you could deduct 100% of your childcare expenses off of your income tax. Now, based on you income, you can only deduct a percentage of your childcare expenses (daycare). So if you spend $3000 per year to have someone take care of your child while you work, you get to deduct a small percentage off your taxes.

Uh, the still get to claim them as a dependent!!!! Why the heck should I be subsidizing their choice to have kids??? And a refundable check from the taxpayer???? PURE SOCIALISM!!!

mngundog
12-11-2012, 06:43 PM
Uh, the still get to claim them as a dependent!!!! Why the heck should I be subsidizing their choice to have kids??? And a refundable check from the taxpayer???? PURE SOCIALISM!!!
And Romney is able to write off $77,000 for Ann's horse, why the heck should a billionaire be able to write off $77,000 horse a horse :D

murral stark
12-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Uh, the still get to claim them as a dependent!!!! Why the heck should I be subsidizing their choice to have kids??? And a refundable check from the taxpayer???? PURE SOCIALISM!!!

Do you claim all of your dependants on your w-4? Why do you have such a problem with people legally working the tax system. If it is a legal deduction, the're not doing anything wrong. I don't think Romney, and others of his wealth should only pay 15% on capital gains. It is income and should be taxed as such.

murral stark
12-11-2012, 06:53 PM
And Romney is able to write off $77,000 for Ann's horse, why the heck should a billionaire be able to write off $77,000 horse a horse :D

That's ok though because he is rich, and should be treated like royalty, and get to benefit from the tax loopholes, just not the peasants.:cool:

Dan Storts
12-11-2012, 07:06 PM
Here is a math 101 on the debt. We now in have $16.5 T in debt (that's $146,000 per American household by the way) and it's expected to rise to over $22 T at the end of Obama's term ,(that's $196 K per house hold) Since our government has no desire to quit spending where does it end.? How does it end? Currently they spend $9 B a day and $4 B of that is borrowed raising taxes on the top 2% gets you $6 B annually or 1 1/2 days borrowing . Now just ask your self, since our government has no desire to quit spending we must therefore borrow and how long can we borrow? Can we borrow $200 K a household? $250 K a house hold, will the Japanese, Chinese and American people continue to lend our government money at $300K a household .what is the credit card limit? Truth is we're broke and they are searching for a straw man. BTW you can depreciate a horse, I believe over 5 years, if you your hobby good enough to become a business.

mngundog
12-11-2012, 07:19 PM
Here is a math 101 on the debt. We now in have $16.5 T in debt (that's $146,000 per American household by the way) and it's expected to rise to over $22 T at the end of Obama's term ,(that's $196 K per house hold) Since our government has no desire to quit spending where does it end.? How does it end? Currently they spend $9 B a day and $4 B of that is borrowed raising taxes on the top 2% gets you $6 B annually or 1 1/2 days borrowing . Now just ask your self, since our government has no desire to quit spending we must therefore borrow and how long can we borrow? Can we borrow $200 K a household? $250 K a house hold, will the Japanese, Chinese and American people continue to lend our government money at $300K a household .what is the credit card limit? Truth is we're broke and they are searching for a straw man. BTW you can depreciate a horse, I believe over 5 years, if you your hobby good enough to become a business.
Yes and that is a very reasonable deduction (looking for the sarcasm smiley), yet I drive 300 miles to work a week and can't deduct anything for it, $77K for a horse and Republicans will defend this to there grave, yet a dependent deduction is socialism.:D

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 07:28 PM
Do you claim all of your dependants on your w-4? Why do you have such a problem with people legally working the tax system. If it is a legal deduction, the're not doing anything wrong. I don't think Romney, and others of his wealth should only pay 15% on capital gains. It is income and should be taxed as such.

YOu are truly issing the point. These people now have zero federal tax liability and will pay zero federal incoe taxes plus get a check from the iRS (the taxpayer). I have a problem with the law, it takes my hard earned money from me and gives it to them.
As I'm self employed I don't file a w-4 with my employer (me) I write checks to the gov't every quarter.

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 07:32 PM
Yes and that is a very reasonable deduction (looking for the sarcasm smiley), yet I drive 300 miles to work a week and can't deduct anything for it, $77K for a horse and Republicans will defend this to there grave, yet a dependent deduction is socialism.:D

Get it right. The refundable credit is socialism not the dependent deduction! They are 2 completely different things. A deduction reduces taxable income while a credit reduces tax liability.

mngundog
12-11-2012, 07:39 PM
Get it right. The refundable credit is socialism not the dependent deduction! They are 2 completely different things. A deduction reduces taxable income while a credit reduces tax liability.
Why are they two completely different things, you said it yourself
Why the heck should I be subsidizing their choice to have kids
If you choose to have five kids you just got yourself five more deductions, by your definition that's socialism, redistributing my wealth to pay for your kids. You throw that word socialism around alot but only at one party, not once have you used it with Romneycare maybe 20 times with Obamacare, funny stuff there.

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 07:47 PM
Why are they two completely different things, you said it yourself
If you choose to have five kids you just got yourself five more deductions, by your definition that's socialism, redistributing my wealth to pay for your kids. You throw that word socialism around alot but only at one party, not once have you used it with Romneycare maybe 20 times with Obamacare, funny stuff there.

The refunable part of the credit where the IRS cuts a check to someone on top of having zero federal tax liability is socialism. By the way I stated that this refundable credit started under Bush and Obama greatly increased the amount of the credit so yes I throw it at the republicans too.
YOU do understand that any income tax witheld is refunded due to zero tax liability and then they get even more money!

murral stark
12-11-2012, 07:51 PM
YOu are truly issing the point. These people now have zero federal tax liability and will pay zero federal incoe taxes plus get a check from the iRS (the taxpayer). I have a problem with the law, it takes my hard earned money from me and gives it to them.
As I'm self employed I don't file a w-4 with my employer (me) I write checks to the gov't every quarter.

On a w-4 you can choose to have more money witheld from your check by claiming "0" so you don't have to pay in at the end of the year because you overpaid on your taxable income. Or, you can claim all of your dependants and get more take home money and probably owe taxes at the end of the year. Let's just go to a flat tax with no deductions or credits. that way everybody pays the same effective tax rate.

gmhr1
12-11-2012, 07:52 PM
Get ready for a cut in pay. My daughter is a teacher was told today she will see a much smaller paycheck Jan 4 if we go over the fiscal cliff.

murral stark
12-11-2012, 07:54 PM
The refunable part of the credit where the IRS cuts a check to someone on top of having zero federal tax liability is socialism. By the way I stated that this refundable credit started under Bush and Obama greatly increased the amount of the credit so yes I throw it at the republicans too.
YOU do understand that any income tax witheld is refunded due to zero tax liability and then they get even more money!

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Have a couple kids and then you will get your portion.;)

murral stark
12-11-2012, 07:54 PM
Get ready for a cut in pay. My daughter is a teacher was told today she will see a much smaller paycheck Jan 4 if we go over the fiscal cliff.

Where have you been hiding?

mngundog
12-11-2012, 07:55 PM
The refunable part of the credit where the IRS cuts a check to someone on top of having zero federal tax liability is socialism. By the way I stated that this refundable credit started under Bush and Obama greatly increased the amount of the credit so yes I throw it at the republicans too.
YOU do understand that any income tax witheld is refunded due to zero tax liability and then they get even more money!
I can't stand the free loaders anymore than you can, giving money back is ridiculous, you and me can both agree on that, always going after low income earners with total disregard to the tax breaks given to the higher income guys is where you and me separate. It sickens me more when a billionaire can deduct 100's of thousand for their hobbies or family vacations more than a guy making 30K getting $90 tax break.

murral stark
12-11-2012, 07:56 PM
Get ready for a cut in pay. My daughter is a teacher was told today she will see a much smaller paycheck Jan 4 if we go over the fiscal cliff.

My monthly bills are se up based on what my starting salary was 4 years ago. I have gotten a raise every year since I started. So if I get a pay cut in January, it's no big deal because I am living off of a salary from 4 years ago.

gmhr1
12-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Good for you! Enjoy the pay cut and wait till obamacare kicks in.

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 08:11 PM
On a w-4 you can choose to have more money witheld from your check by claiming "0" so you don't have to pay in at the end of the year because you overpaid on your taxable income. Or, you can claim all of your dependants and get more take home money and probably owe taxes at the end of the year. Let's just go to a flat tax with no deductions or credits. that way everybody pays the same effective tax rate.

I know all about w-4's and how they impact witholdings. A was a payroll manager for many years.
This has nothing to do with how much the person has witheld from their check.
Witholding has nothing to do with the actual federal tax liability but rather how close the amount witheld comes to that liability either under or over.
WHen someone ends up with a credit kicking over to refundable they will get anything witheld back plus a nice little redistributive bonus added on courtesy of the actual federal payers.

Dan Storts
12-11-2012, 08:16 PM
I did not mention anything about rep. or dem. However, I am not 100% positive, but it is likely not the only horse they own.

The vet employees a vet tech, secretary and possibly others vets if he works with the Romney's.

He Purchases medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment, heat for his building, a special vet vehicle and who knows how many other items which directly or indirectly employes thousands of people

Now I am not even getting into the farrier, trainers, farmers providing the grain and hay, airplane crew flying the horses to and from Europe, truckers moving them around the United States, people involve putting on events like Rolex and there are multiple other levels.

mngundog
12-11-2012, 08:24 PM
I did not mention anything about rep. or dem. However, I am not 100% positive, but it is likely not the only horse they own.

The vet employees a vet tech, secretary and possibly others vets if he works with the Romney's.

He Purchases medicine, medical supplies, medical equipment, heat for his building, a special vet vehicle and who knows how many other items which directly or indirectly employes thousands of people

Now I am not even getting into the farrier, trainers, farmers providing the grain and hay, airplane crew flying the horses to and from Europe, truckers moving them around the United States, people involve putting on events like Rolex and there are multiple other levels.
One Horse one

murral stark
12-11-2012, 08:29 PM
I know all about w-4's and how they impact witholdings. A was a payroll manager for many years.
This has nothing to do with how much the person has witheld from their check.
Witholding has nothing to do with the actual federal tax liability but rather how close the amount witheld comes to that liability either under or over.
WHen someone ends up with a credit kicking over to refundable they will get anything witheld back plus a nice little redistributive bonus added on courtesy of the actual federal payers.


Did I read sometime back that you immigrated here? If I am correct, is it any better in your home land? If I am mistaken about you immigrating here, disregard?

Dan Storts
12-11-2012, 08:39 PM
Passive Activity

Ann Romney incurred $77,731 of expenses related to Rob Rom in 2012. The Romneys did not deduct $77,731 of horse-related expenses. The passive loss rules don't let them do that. They deducted $49, the proportionate amount covered by passive income.
The publicity given the matter so far makes it appear that the LLC owns only one horse. We don't know how large Ann Romney's equity interest is, but the partnership agreement requires her to pay for two-thirds of Rafalca's expenses.

That would imply that Rafalca costs nearly $10,000 per month for upkeep, training, and flying around the world to shows. Sounds like a lot, but it is within the usual range of expenses for such a horse. Rafalca went to London on a chartered jet.

This is from a summary of the tax return. As you can see she deduct 49 dollars and the 77k was though the LLC ownership. I can give you much more information if you wish. My wife has these hay burners.

BTW she has 6 to 8 horses.

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 08:40 PM
Did I read sometime back that you immigrated here? If I am correct, is it any better in your home land? If I am mistaken about you immigrating here, disregard?

It varies as to which is better. Overall here but with Obama and his crew its debatable and it gets worse by the minute here. Obama is destroying this country.

mngundog
12-11-2012, 08:59 PM
Passive Activity

Ann Romney incurred $77,731 of expenses related to Rob Rom in 2012. The Romneys did not deduct $77,731 of horse-related expenses. The passive loss rules don't let them do that. They deducted $49, the proportionate amount covered by passive income.
The publicity given the matter so far makes it appear that the LLC owns only one horse. We don't know how large Ann Romney's equity interest is, but the partnership agreement requires her to pay for two-thirds of Rafalca's expenses.

That would imply that Rafalca costs nearly $10,000 per month for upkeep, training, and flying around the world to shows. Sounds like a lot, but it is within the usual range of expenses for such a horse. Rafalca went to London on a chartered jet.

This is from a summary of the tax return. As you can see she deduct 49 dollars and the 77k was though the LLC ownership. I can give you much more information if you wish. My wife has these hay burners.

BTW she has 6 to 8 horses.
From the New York Times

In 2010, the Romneys reported a $77,000 loss on their tax returns for their share of Rafalca, which is owned by a partnership that includes Ebeling’s wife, Amy, Ann Romney and Beth Meyer.
This was on ONE HORSE

murral stark
12-11-2012, 09:00 PM
It varies as to which is better. Overall here but with Obama and his crew its debatable and it gets worse by the minute here. Obama is destroying this country.

Well, we all have options. I just choose to look at what I have and be happy. I just get angry when people don't appreciate what they have and be happy, they would rather focus on the negative things and be miserable.

Dan Storts
12-11-2012, 09:14 PM
From the New York Times

This was on ONE HORSE

Actually that is not where I got the information but they probably did a article. if they are not able to show a income 1 of every 5 years there could be a issue. Thus, it could be considered a hobby. That is the likely reason for becoming a partner in the stable.

Franco
12-11-2012, 09:18 PM
Obama's plan to raise taxes on those making over $250k a year is nothing more than Class Warfare and his way of appeasing the poor and uneducted. It won't solve anything. The Top 2% already pay a huge sum in taxes. The Repubs plan of reforming the tax code and closing loopholes makes much more sense but it doesn't appease the socialist.

Increasing taxes on Capital Gains will only ensure that Americans will invest less. Just look at the big money sitting on the sidelines. No investor in their right mind is going to risk thier capital when the rewards are so slim. Better to just sit on it than pay it to the government in additional taxes. The big players, the big investors are going offshore with their money where they can get a better ROI. How can anyone blame them when it is so obvious that Obama is anti-independent businesses. Just look at his actions today in Michigan. Here is a cash strapped state that is trying to attract investors and businesses by becoming a Right To Work state and Obama spoke out against it! With the demonstations of the last several days, no buisness in their right mind would want to move there.

Obama and the socialtist can kill the wealth and before we know it we will all be poor. He has never had to balance a budget or live within his means. He is bad for business! Companies that will expand in this country will do so in the Right To Works states or they will take their buisness offshore. That is a fact of life!

It is clear that Obama is too weak to make the tough choices and prefers to play Class Warfare which much of the media loves. Just like Ann's horse. The really big monied folks are fast giving up thier citizenship and moving to places that welcome their wealth. Not because they want to take it away but because they know it will be good for their economy.

luvmylabs23139
12-11-2012, 09:57 PM
My monthly bills are se up based on what my starting salary was 4 years ago. I have gotten a raise every year since I started. So if I get a pay cut in January, it's no big deal because I am living off of a salary from 4 years ago.

You haven't had any increase in your bills in 4 years??
I can list several of mine that have increased :
property taxes
homeowners insurance ( no claims)
electric bill (usage is actually down but rates increased)
gas (use less but the expense has increased)
DOG FOOD!!! (same food and less consumed as 2 of the 4 are now seniors and require less)

mngundog
12-11-2012, 10:08 PM
You haven't had any increase in your bills in 4 years??
I can list several of mine that have increased :
property taxes
homeowners insurance ( no claims)
electric bill (usage is actually down but rates increased)
gas (use less but the expense has increased)
DOG FOOD!!! (same food and less consumed as 2 of the 4 are now seniors and require less)
Not to mention health insurance seems like mine has went up every year for the last 20 years.

murral stark
12-11-2012, 10:17 PM
You haven't had any increase in your bills in 4 years??
I can list several of mine that have increased :
property taxes
homeowners insurance ( no claims)
electric bill (usage is actually down but rates increased)
gas (use less but the expense has increased)
DOG FOOD!!! (same food and less consumed as 2 of the 4 are now seniors and require less)

Let me re-phrase. Some of my bills have gone up and others we have cut back on things to be able to stay within our means. My insurance premiums have actually gone down on insurance. I don't own a house, so I don't have to worry about property taxes or homeowners insurance. My rent is pretty cheap too. We don't try to keep up with the Joneses. We both work for food companies and get really good deals on food so our grocery bill is lower than most people's.

luvmylabs23139
12-13-2012, 06:41 PM
Let me re-phrase. Some of my bills have gone up and others we have cut back on things to be able to stay within our means. My insurance premiums have actually gone down on insurance. I don't own a house, so I don't have to worry about property taxes or homeowners insurance. My rent is pretty cheap too. We don't try to keep up with the Joneses. We both work for food companies and get really good deals on food so our grocery bill is lower than most people's.

OK, fair enough. I tried to pick things that are not a result of the person's actions.
I used property taxes and homeowners insurance because those 2 things have increased even more for my retired parents who are in their 70's than mine have. They paid off their house years ago more than anything to not have a major expense in later years. Yet, their property taxes go up every year, and they really get very little for the money. Flat out dollars they pay 2.5 x's more than I do in property taxes yet I have a much larger house and a lot more land. Dad won't leave that crappy state so I guess he has to deal with it.
But my property taxes have almost doubled in 11 years. I call the county every year to ask what the heck I get for my money and all they ever say is well , but, but ......
MY electric rates are insane compared to when I bought this house. Best example is my barn which has a seperate meter. That is rated small general service.The usage does not change. It runs 2 dusk to dawn lights and my invisable dog fence on a regular basis. The bill thas doubled in 11 years.
While we don't try to keep up with the Jones' it would be nice to not pay for leaches to do so.

mngundog
12-14-2012, 09:25 AM
OK, fair enough. I tried to pick things that are not a result of the person's actions.
I used property taxes and homeowners insurance because those 2 things have increased even more for my retired parents who are in their 70's than mine have. They paid off their house years ago more than anything to not have a major expense in later years. Yet, their property taxes go up every year, and they really get very little for the money. Flat out dollars they pay 2.5 x's more than I do in property taxes yet I have a much larger house and a lot more land. Dad won't leave that crappy state so I guess he has to deal with it.
But my property taxes have almost doubled in 11 years. I call the county every year to ask what the heck I get for my money and all they ever say is well , but, but ......
MY electric rates are insane compared to when I bought this house. Best example is my barn which has a seperate meter. That is rated small general service.The usage does not change. It runs 2 dusk to dawn lights and my invisable dog fence on a regular basis. The bill thas doubled in 11 years.
While we don't try to keep up with the Jones' it would be nice to not pay for leaches to do so.
Have you actually contested your property taxes? May very well be worth your time.