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Franco
12-10-2012, 09:17 AM
I finally had the chance to see the movie yesterday afternoon. In the fashion of most Spielberg movies, the cinematography was awesome, good actors and acting. Unlike other Spielberg historical movies like The Pacific (a must see) and Band Of Brothers, Spielberg left out several important aspects of Lincoln's political life.

Most notably was the 13th Amendment. This movie attempted to portray Lincoln for something he really wasn't. In 1861 Lincoln support the first 13th Amendment which failed to pass. That one supported the slave states to determine the issue on their own. The second 13th Amendment in 1865 freed the slaves. Lincoln support of the second 13th Amendment was purely political as he wanted to keep Foreign goverments from getting involved with our Civil War and not from some deep anti-slavery conviction that Lincoln possessed!

Just want to set the record straight;-)

mudminnow
12-10-2012, 09:31 AM
What? Lincoln is not a demigod with more morals than Jesus? That's what I was taught in school. That's heresy. The civil war was about slavery, not about money or states rights, or an urban north punishing an agricultural south. If folks think that lincoln was this moral abolitionist, why did he wait until two years into the war to issue the emancipation proclamation, and why did it only free slaves in the federally controlled south? If anyone thinks Lincoln was a good president, you need to read history. ( stepping off soapbox)

road kill
12-10-2012, 09:32 AM
I finally had the chance to see the movie yesterday afternoon. In the fashion of most Spielberg movies, the cinematography was awesome, good actors and acting. Unlike other Spielberg historical movies like The Pacific (a must see) and Band Of Brothers, Spielberg left out several important aspects of Lincoln's political life.

Most notably was the 13th Amendment. This movie attempted to portray Lincoln for something he really wasn't. In 1861 Lincoln support the first 13th Amendment which failed to pass. That one supported the slave states to determine the issue on their own. The second 13th Amendment in 1865 freed the slaves. Lincoln support of the second 13th Amendment was purely political as he wanted to keep Foreign goverments from getting involved with our Civil War and not from some deep anti-slavery conviction that Lincoln possessed!

Just want to set the record straight;-)


I would offer that your afternoon was better spent watching a Spielberg movie than your other choices!!!!:cool:

Don't worry, I watched it for you......delightful!!!:D

Ken Bora
12-10-2012, 09:44 AM
,,,,, why did he wait until two years into the war to issue the emancipation proclamation,. ( stepping off soapbox)


well, what one? I seem to recall the one everyone talks about is the 2nd. the first was18 months ish earlier that was ignored. somebody can search that if you need to check me. I got decoys in the truck to demuck OH, and it was military, not moral. but can swing both ways.;-)

Ken Bora
12-10-2012, 09:53 AM
... and why did it only free slaves in the federally controlled south? . ( stepping off soapbox)

that is simple, it was a military order. The Army of the United States was only in control of those grounds. The Grounds above were the free Northern States and the grounds below were in control of the Army of Southern Aggresion. Hence the order only applied to what the commander actualy held in charge.

Franco
12-10-2012, 10:00 AM
well, what one? I seem to recall the one everyone talks about is the 2nd. the first was18 months ish earlier that was ignored. somebody can search that if you need to check me. I got decoys in the truck to demuck OH, and it was military, not moral. but can swing both ways.;-)

It doesn't hide the fact that in 1861 Lincoln supported the rights of the southern states to determine the issue for themselves and then when it was politically expedient, supported emancipation in 1865.

mudminnow
12-10-2012, 10:21 AM
Thanks for your responses ken, it is nice to come across someone north of the mason Dixon line that knows something about the war between the states history. While we may disagree on the motive behind the orders, it is easy for this southern boy to get nostalgic and hop onto my soapbox when anyone mentions Lincoln. Thanks for putting up with it. Lincoln is still in my book one of the worst presidents ever and I can't bring myself to watch this movie

Uncle Bill
12-10-2012, 11:39 AM
Lincoln is still in my book one of the worst presidents ever and I can't bring myself to watch this movie



WOW...You might want to run that past the MSP, or most Democrats/leftists/socialists/Marxists...That's pure racist! Ranks right up there with a white guy saying "Detroit".

Ever consider reading O Reilly's book..."The killing of Lincoln"? Should make you smile.

UB

HPL
12-10-2012, 12:11 PM
that is simple, it was a military order. The Army of the United States was only in control of those grounds. The Grounds above were the free Northern States and the grounds below were in control of the Army of Southern Aggresion. Hence the order only applied to what the commander actualy held in charge.

Whereas you may have the rest correct, it was the brave boys in grey that were fighting for freedom against the NORTHERN ARMY of AGGRESSION (that's what my grandmother told me and innocent southern belle that she was, she wouldn't lie).

BonMallari
12-10-2012, 12:38 PM
I might watch the movie strictly for entertainment value because of the actors involved, I am not a Lincoln scholar nor do I care to be, I am sure the truth about Lincoln lies somewhere between the romanticized versions many of us were taught in school to those on here that offer a different opinion based on what they have studied

Now if Marvin were to tell me something about a past president I pay attention because there is a greater chance that he actually lived during that time

mudminnow
12-10-2012, 12:56 PM
This was an interesting article I just read. And while it is not from an unbiased site(which I don't think exist) it gives another look at some history. I think the most interesting part is the Robert E. Lee letter wher he writes


" . . . [T]he consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of the ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it." .

A lot of the problems our country faces today are the same ones we faced years ago.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/denson6.html

M&K's Retrievers
12-10-2012, 06:25 PM
Kathy and I saw it last Monday. We thought the acting was very good but I almost nodded off a couple of times. It was a little slow as I guess history can be.

Marvin S
12-10-2012, 09:12 PM
Now if Marvin were to tell me something about a past president I pay attention because there is a greater chance that he actually lived during that time

:) - things have changed in the time I have been here - the history lessons from HS have proven to be so much BS - but I'll pass on a few of my observations.

I wished I had read more of Coolidge - apparently he was one of our better POTUS -
Lincoln & Teddy probably don't deserve to be on Rushmore -
Ike started the Interstate Highway system but also gave us Earl Warren -
Nixon improved relations with China but also took us off the Gold standard -
Reagan gets a lot more credit than he deserves -
Truman was an Old style D but taught us to fight wars but not win -
The defining election of my time was the Goldwater loss -
Romney could not in his wildest dreams be worse than the present POTUS -

But what I believe will kill the country is the tremendous loss of practical knowledge in the work force at all levels - book smarts are just that - actual experience beats all the theory that can be assembled. I would stop all student loans except for those in STEM & limit the amount there. I see that in the original postings & the C & P's posted. While it's nice to have the folks who are wordsmiths around to chronicle the happenings, they don't know from siccem when it's comes to being a doer. There is no fountain of talent to run the country at the public level, & it seems to have stopped at the Reagan POTUS.

Thank God for Scalia on the SCOTUS - I believe his influence to be immense & good for the country - Thomas is fine but not outgoing, so it's up to Alioto to take the reins when Scalia steps down - as a young person I would get to know him well, at the least in what's chronicled -

There truly seems to be a real issue of folks being unable to differentiate between right & wrong. I blame that on one thing: permissiveness. If you are permissive, you are a contributor :o. Thank God for folks who keep the country from drifting too far left - if you do that, you have my heartfelt Thanks.

charly_t
12-10-2012, 09:54 PM
:) - things have changed in the time I have been here - the history lessons from HS have proven to be so much BS - but I'll pass on a few of my observations.

I wished I had read more of Coolidge - apparently he was one of our better POTUS -
Lincoln & Teddy probably don't deserve to be on Rushmore -
Ike started the Interstate Highway system but also gave us Earl Warren -
Nixon improved relations with China but also took us off the Gold standard -
Reagan gets a lot more credit than he deserves -
Truman was an Old style D but taught us to fight wars but not win -
The defining election of my time was the Goldwater loss -
Romney could not in his wildest dreams be worse than the present POTUS -

But what I believe will kill the country is the tremendous loss of practical knowledge in the work force at all levels - book smarts are just that - actual experience beats all the theory that can be assembled. I would stop all student loans except for those in STEM & limit the amount there. I see that in the original postings & the C & P's posted. While it's nice to have the folks who are wordsmiths around to chronicle the happenings, they don't know from siccem when it's comes to being a doer. There is no fountain of talent to run the country at the public level, & it seems to have stopped at the Reagan POTUS.

Thank God for Scalia on the SCOTUS - I believe his influence to be immense & good for the country - Thomas is fine but not outgoing, so it's up to Alioto to take the reins when Scalia steps down - as a young person I would get to know him well, at the least in what's chronicled -

There truly seems to be a real issue of folks being unable to differentiate between right & wrong. I blame that on one thing: permissiveness. If you are permissive, you are a contributor :o. Thank God for folks who keep the country from drifting too far left - if you do that, you have my heartfelt Thanks.

Great post ! Well said.