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View Full Version : A Tax Payer Revolt Is Long Overdue!



Franco
12-13-2012, 10:51 AM
When the government has money for raiding raw milk co-ops, it's hard to take their desperate pleads for more money seriously:

http://reason.com/blog/2011/08/04/reasontv-rawesome-foods-raided

The Federal government does not have an income problem. It has a spending problem. Since they still have enough of OUR money to spend on violating OUR civil liberties, the last thing we need to do is to enable them to borrow more, tax more, and spend more.

A balanced budget must come from dramatically cutting back spending in all areas, including the military, and eliminating unneeded government departments.

Franco
12-13-2012, 11:20 AM
More Financial Suicide from the Federal Reserve...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/12/us-usa-fed-idUSBRE8BB08A20121212

Instead of giving the people that earned the money, their money back so that they can reinvest and spend, the Government's plan is to steal the money and pay off their cronies in another round of Stimulus waste!

BonMallari
12-13-2012, 11:54 AM
the Taxpayer had a chance to revolt on Nov 6....they obviously did not...same people are running the show


What can they do any differently now

road kill
12-13-2012, 11:58 AM
the Taxpayer had a chance to revolt on Nov 6....they obviously did not...same people are running the show


What can they do any differently now
The people who got "HUSTLED" for their votes that determined that election were not taxpayers.


Many people voted in that election that never voted before or otherwise.

Ken Bora
12-13-2012, 12:04 PM
two or three winters ago a man and wife over the way in New Hampshire tried tax payer revolt. held up in the home, long drive, secluded, the feds had a stand off and cuffed and stuffed um. it seems you can not refuse to pay no matter what some say. They might still be in jail.

Franco
12-13-2012, 12:05 PM
the Taxpayer had a chance to revolt on Nov 6....they obviously did not...same people are running the show


What can they do any differently now

I don't recall Romney saying anything regarding the fact that ALL tax payers are paying too much. Nor did he say anything about getting the Federal Reserve under control or any serious statements about downsizing the Federal Governmnet or singling out any departments/agencies for elimination. Nor did he propose a balanced budget nor championed a Balanced Budget Amendment!

Romney is Obama light.

Franco
12-13-2012, 12:12 PM
two or three winters ago a man and wife over the way in New Hampshire tried tax payer revolt. held up in the home, long drive, secluded, the feds had a stand off and cuffed and stuffed um. it seems you can not refuse to pay no matter what some say. They might still be in jail.

It is going to have to be a Class Action where there is strength in numbers.

Buzz
12-13-2012, 12:42 PM
You guys act like you have no idea that taxes are lower than they have been in something like 80 years...

BonMallari
12-13-2012, 01:10 PM
I don't recall Romney saying anything regarding the fact that ALL tax payers are paying too much. Nor did he say anything about getting the Federal Reserve under control or any serious statements about downsizing the Federal Governmnet or singling out any departments/agencies for elimination. Nor did he propose a balanced budget nor championed a Balanced Budget Amendment!

Romney is Obama light.


Very predictable from you....no matter who won the election you would be crying out for revolt

caryalsobrook
12-13-2012, 01:27 PM
You guys act like you have no idea that taxes are lower than they have been in something like 80 years...

So you think taxes should be raised on everybody because they are now lower for everybody???

Franco
12-13-2012, 01:50 PM
Very predictable from you....no matter who won the election you would be crying out for revolt

Neither the Repubs ot the Dems have the interest of the Tax Payer, and a typical comment from someone so willing to cede their Liberty to the Fed Government!

In case you missed it, Romney too called for Deficit spending. Like Reagan's comment, "deficit spending doesn't matter". Maybe you could enlighten us and tell us exactly how Romney was going to take on the Deficit with Deficit spending???

Here is a little History lesson on the Repubs and Deficit spending and don't get me started on Bush!
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

Spending
In 1980, Jimmy Caner's last year as president, the federal government spent a whopping 27.9% of "national income" (an obnoxious term for the private wealth produced by the American people). Reagan assaulted the free-spending Carter administration throughout his campaign in 1980. So how did the Reagan administration do? At the end of the first quarter of 1988, federal spending accounted for 28.7% of "national income."
Even Ford and Carter did a better job at cutting government. Their combined presidential terms account for an increase of 1.4%—compared with Reagan's 3%—in the government's take of "national income." And in nominal terms, there has been a 60% increase in government spending, thanks mainly to Reagan's requested budgets, which were only marginally smaller than the spending Congress voted.

.................................................. ............


The American Tax Payer needs to demand that Congress pass a Balanced Budget Amendment. That because neither the Dems or Repubs has the guts to do it. That if they don't pass it in 2013, We The Tax Payer will refuse to pay our taxes. This is an issue I will raise at the January meeting of the Lousiana Libertarian Party meeting in Baton Rouge. I am going to motion that we draft a letter to the national party that they make this a national issue of the party. Not only would the national press not be able to ignore this story but would give the party a boost in exposure, as well as making all tax payers aware that this is the only party that is truely looking after thier interest!

Franco
12-13-2012, 02:14 PM
The Federal Reserve's Zombie Economy


Deutsche Bank is out with a new warning that says the Federal Reserve’s latest round of an estimated $1.02 trillion in total annual purchases of U.S. Treasuries and mortgage-backed securities is creating lemon socialism, a U.S. economy filled with the financially undead.
Deutsche notes that stock markets are based on winners and losers, but there are neither right now. That’s because the Fed keeps pumping liquidity into the system, so everyone wins. When everyone wins, no one makes money, a bridge to nowhere Japan has already crossed.


Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/2012/12/13/federal-reserve-zombie-economy/#ixzz2ExeG2yZy

Note, this in not from Fox News but Fox Business.

Ken Bora
12-13-2012, 11:05 PM
You guys act like you have no idea that taxes are lower than they have been in something like 80 years...

odd, I was just taking my stuff out making ready for next month, end of year tax stuff. I have my records back to 1985. would have from before that but house fire. anyway, my point, I have given more money to the government every year since 1985. Never, not once less than the year in back of it. Never. Taxes are lower on whom?????????????????????????

JDogger
12-14-2012, 12:28 AM
odd, I was just taking my stuff out making ready for next month, end of year tax stuff. I have my records back to 1985. would have from before that but house fire. anyway, my point, I have given more money to the government every year since 1985. Never, not once less than the year in back of it. Never. Taxes are lower on whom?????????????????????????

As a percentage? or overall? I pay more taxes now than 1985, but I make more now than 1985.
If your wages have remained flat for 26 years it might be time to reconsider what you do and who you vote for. It may be well that you call him Bernie and he calls you Ken. Does he tip? Do you report all your tips?
JD

JS
12-14-2012, 12:48 AM
According to this site, a single taxpayer earning $25,000 in 1985 paid 30%

In 2011, the same guy had to earn $175,000 to pay that much.

If he still earned the same $25,000 the rate would be 15%


http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

And if ya really know how to do it, you can earn multimillions and pay 13.6% :roll:

JS

Franco
12-14-2012, 07:49 AM
According to this site, a single taxpayer earning $25,000 in 1985 paid 30%

In 2011, the same guy had to earn $175,000 to pay that much.

If he still earned the same $25,000 the rate would be 15%


http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

And if ya really know how to do it, you can earn multimillions and pay 13.6% :roll:

JS

Even at a rate of 15%, that is grand theft by the Feds! Tax payers have become so accustomed to paying high rates that they unthinkingly just pay it. Add State Taxes, Sales tax and all the various usage taxes that the Feds have thier fingers in and the percentage of one's income paid is obscene.

Some may not mind working for the Federal Government but others like me think the Federal Government should be working for the people!


I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson (http://www.retrievertraining.net/quotes/authors/t/thomas_jefferson.html)

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/523868_10151398771663132_1915781235_n.jpg

road kill
12-14-2012, 07:53 AM
According to this site, a single taxpayer earning $25,000 in 1985 paid 30%

In 2011, the same guy had to earn $175,000 to pay that much.

If he still earned the same $25,000 the rate would be 15%


http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

And if ya really know how to do it, you can earn multimillions and pay 13.6% :roll:

JS

Income tax and capital gains tax are indeed 2 seperate things.

I guess I could find a link for you.:cool:

Ken Bora
12-14-2012, 07:59 AM
....... Does he tip? Do you report all your tips?
JD


tips?
not in the back o the house

caryalsobrook
12-14-2012, 08:48 AM
According to this site, a single taxpayer earning $25,000 in 1985 paid 30%

In 2011, the same guy had to earn $175,000 to pay that much.

If he still earned the same $25,000 the rate would be 15%


http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

And if ya really know how to do it, you can earn multimillions and pay 13.6% :roll:

JS

You distort the facts by comparing apples to orange. I do not have the exact figures at hand but these are generally in the ball park.

People making less than $50,000/year pay an average of 2-3% of their gross income(deductions and tax credits lower their tax burden)
People making between $50,000- $100,000 pay slightly more.
People making over $1,000,000 pay between 11-12%
Source IRS

With 70,000 pages of tax code and increasing how could expect anything else. The worst thime that has ever happened to the US is the income tax.

Buzz
12-14-2012, 09:38 AM
You distort the facts by comparing apples to orange. I do not have the exact figures at hand but these are generally in the ball park.

People making less than $50,000/year pay an average of 2-3% of their gross income(deductions and tax credits lower their tax burden)
People making between $50,000- $100,000 pay slightly more.
People making over $1,000,000 pay between 11-12%
Source IRS

With 70,000 pages of tax code and increasing how could expect anything else. The worst thime that has ever happened to the US is the income tax.


I (I mean our accountant) must be doing something wrong because I pay a lot more than what is indicated here. I think that last year I paid in excess of a 20% effective rate, which means more than 20% of my total gross. Effective rate is what I think the IRS is talking about here. When JS refers to the 30% and 15% rates, I have to believe that those are marginal rates.

I realize you know the difference, but when I hear discussions about taxes, it is clear that most people don't seem to understand the difference between effective rates and marginal rates.

caryalsobrook
12-14-2012, 10:07 AM
I (I mean our accountant) must be doing something wrong because I pay a lot more than what is indicated here. I think that last year I paid in excess of a 20% effective rate, which means more than 20% of my total gross. Effective rate is what I think the IRS is talking about here. When JS refers to the 30% and 15% rates, I have to believe that those are marginal rates.

I realize you know the difference, but when I hear discussions about taxes, it is clear that most people don't seem to understand the difference between effective rates and marginal rates.

You are so right. He quoted the marginal rate for the lower incomes and effective rate for the higher income. That is done many times and is so misleading.

JS
12-14-2012, 10:51 AM
You are so right. He quoted the marginal rate for the lower incomes and effective rate for the higher income. That is done many times and is so misleading

Well, I am not a tax accountant so I could certainly be doing something wrong! :). No attempt to mislead, I promise.

But the site I cited ($2 words here) referenced the marginal rate in both cases. In 1985 there are only 6 tax brackets, but in 2011 there are 15 so the dollar numbers are not the same but I did my best to find comparable numbers to compare rates.

And I do realize the $25,000 guy in 1985 is probably earning more doing the same work in 2011 and I did not make any attempt to adjust $25,000 to today's figure. I thought we could all understand that my examples were to demonstrate a principle, not fill out a tax return. Another frustrating danger in trying to be brief. My bad.

So the principle is that if circumstances in your life remained the same and your earnings (buying power) kept pace with inflation, and we are talking about earned income, not capital gains, etc., etc., etc. ... keeping everything as constant as possible ... the % of your earnings that go to pay federal taxes is less today than in 1985. I could be wrong. So, using the charts in the link I provided, please show me the error of my ways.

(You did find how to scroll down to past years in that chart, right? There is a separate scroll bar on the righthand edge of the chart.)

JS

caryalsobrook
12-14-2012, 11:47 AM
Well, I am not a tax accountant so I could certainly be doing something wrong! :). No attempt to mislead, I promise.

But the site I cited ($2 words here) referenced the marginal rate in both cases. In 1985 there are only 6 tax brackets, but in 2011 there are 15 so the dollar numbers are not the same but I did my best to find comparable numbers to compare rates.

And I do realize the $25,000 guy in 1985 is probably earning more doing the same work in 2011 and I did not make any attempt to adjust $25,000 to today's figure. I thought we could all understand that my examples were to demonstrate a principle, not fill out a tax return. Another frustrating danger in trying to be brief. My bad.

So the principle is that if circumstances in your life remained the same and your earnings (buying power) kept pace with inflation, and we are talking about earned income, not capital gains, etc., etc., etc. ... keeping everything as constant as possible ... the % of your earnings that go to pay federal taxes is less today than in 1985. I could be wrong. So, using the charts in the link I provided, please show me the error of my ways.

(You did find how to scroll down to past years in that chart, right? There is a separate scroll bar on the righthand edge of the chart.)

JS
Just went back and looked at the chart to see what it was. It does show the marginal tax rates for the years that you mention. However when you quoted the 13% rate, you were actually quoting the EFFECTIVE TAX RATE. If you looked up effective tax rates for those very levels you quoted, you would find those tax rates much lower than 13%. As I said you were comparing apples to oranges.

One of the few things I know about computers is the scroll tab. Can't copy, paste, download videos and don't want to take the time to learn. Just let my son and friends do that for me. Much rather clean kennels feed dogs and puppies, and train them. If you think I am a computer illiterate, you would be right. However I like to think that is by choice and not due to intellect.:D