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murral stark
12-13-2012, 06:28 PM
I am curious. For those of you that hate the unions, what has caused that hatred? I have explained my hatred for "rich" people. Not so much the people themselves, just their actions. Someone recently asked me if I actually hated the rich people or just their actions. Some of those rich people I do personally hate for reasons that make sense to me.

HPL
12-13-2012, 06:58 PM
I don't believe that I hate any specific class of people, I don't know all the members of any class or group. There are certainly individuals that I believe that I could stand by and watch bleed out, but that's always a personal thing. Hatred for a "class" of people leads often comes from class envy and leads to class warfare, neither very productive. My general dislike for unions probably stems from Cesar Chavez' attempts to organize farm labor when some of my families friends were farmers. I am aware that farm laborers often lived in poor conditions and were also often mistreated by some growers, but what you find is that the farmers themselves didn't exactly live opulent lives either, and the laborers actually have quite a bit of power at harvest time. A strike of just three or four days could ruin a farmer and then nobody wins. I really don't care one way of the other if steel workers or miners are unionized. I am also opposed to civil servants being unionized as there really isn't an organized opposing force representing the taxpayers' interests in many situations.

luvmylabs23139
12-13-2012, 07:18 PM
I worked for at the time a major manufacturer. I was in my early 20's and was not part of the union but decidedly not management. I was the hourly paid timekeeper when I got disgusted. I got dumped into the job (on a non union layoff day). I flat out asked a few questions that day, just so you know.
1. DO I get a raise? nope
2. DO I get laid off if I refuse the job? (the job had been posted but I wasn't eligable because I did not have enough time in my current job, same grade level) I actually kinda wanted it for career purposes.
nope but someone else will be, because you are the only one that can be moved over into the timekeeper job.
That is the background of how I landed in a job that I never applied for but gave me great exposure over a few years to the inside of union stuff in an environment with lots of layoffs and bumping.
Note I am a non union low level employee with a lot of access to stuff.

I saw too many great employees loose their jobs or get bumped down based on seniority not performance.
As part of the timekeeper stuff I also got the work tickets for machine jobs etc. I had a ton of access to information that meant nothing to the person before me in the job(she retired after 35 years). The position since it was suposed to be all about hours (that changed) reported to Cost Accounting.
I heard the frustration from the shop steward during those layoffs and bumping. I knew who showed up for work all the time, who actually worked etc.
I also saw some of those laid off while the leaches who pushed everything to the limit keep their jobs.
I had a great relationship with the hard workers in the union, 2 of them were the photographer and video guy for my wedding. Another 2 got me hooked on competitive dog games.

Dan Storts
12-13-2012, 07:30 PM
Unions definitely had there place in time just like they have in protecting a policeman from the general public and POTUS. I stated this in a previous post. However, give me 3 reasons why I should love them today. If you say fair wage then tell me what that fair wage is because it does have to be the same in California as in Kansas even though we both know the cost of living is different in each place. Remember the government has put us all into the cookie cutter mold just like the North Korean's put everyone into the rice fields.

JDogger
12-13-2012, 07:41 PM
I would like to point out that we may all be members of "Da Union", as Stan likes to chirp. The United States of America is a UNION.
http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/nhhs/html/union.htm

A union of disparate individuals with mostly a common goal. The common good.
Some worry about their "hard earned taxes" going to causes they do not support, and I fully understand. I dislike my taxes going to wars I do not support. Others dislike their taxes going to individuals that do not support themselves. Again, I understand.
The common good is an elusive concept. We can view it many different ways. I believe, however, that we are all Americans and that the common good should be our "Prime Directive." (Apologies to Star Trek...)

JD

luvmylabs23139
12-13-2012, 08:17 PM
I would like to point out that we may all be members of "Da Union", as Stan likes to chirp. The United States of America is a UNION.
http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/nhhs/html/union.htm

A union of disparate individuals with mostly a common goal. The common good.
Some worry about their "hard earned taxes" going to causes they do not support, and I fully understand. I dislike my taxes going to wars I do not support. Others dislike their taxes going to individuals that do not support themselves. Again, I understand.
The common good is an elusive concept. We can view it many different ways. I believe, however, that we are all Americans and that the common good should be our "Prime Directive." (Apologies to Star Trek...)

JD

Well Obama's version of the common good make me vomit!!!!! Hopefully he will rot in hell someday.
He wants me to bust my but and steal my hard earned money and give it to the do nothing leaches that voted for him... Screw that idiot!

JS
12-13-2012, 08:35 PM
I can understand why some think that workers organizing is bad. I don't agree but I can understand someone feeling that way.

I grew up in a very conservative, anti-union environment. My grandfather came north from West Virginia as a teenager. He worked as a farmhand and somehow (not sure how) eventually owned his own ground and was a dirt farmer all his life. He lost his farm in the depression and rented the rest of his life until he retired and went to work for an implement dealer in town.

My family was strongly Republican and I remember vividly the political discussions. When I was pre-teen or thereabouts, the coal mine strikes were in full swing and John L. Lewis, the president of the coal miners union and a native Iowan, was the devil himself in my household. He was a terrifying looking soul with his bushy eyebrows and scowling face ... the only image I ever saw of him ... and I was scared to death with everything I had heard of him.

I lived a lot of my youth in foster homes, always hearing the same political sentiments, and it stayed with me for a long time. I am not proud of it but I will admit that my first vote was cast for Nixon and the Republican slate in 1960. I considered myself Republican. That's the way I had been raised.

But as I got out on my own and looked around, I began to realize the world looked a whole lot different to me than I had expected or had been led to believe. I was pretty lucky in that I fell into good paying jobs with decent working conditions, thanks to those before me who had paved the way. I had to work hard but it was worth it.

I had grown up to believe that people who lived poorly were lazy or had "failed". But as a grown man, I saw people who worked other places in my town and worked just as hard as I did, but earning half as much. I started to feel strongly about protecting what I had and helping others to get the same equity. I don't regret the path I chose and am proud of some of the differences I think I have made.

I do not share your hatred for the wealthy. There are evil people with money and there are some who are broke. I feel a person should be rewarded for their hard work. I value hard work. But I don't accept financial success as a measure of a man's worth or stature. I have known many a man who worked as hard or harder than any millionaire alive. That man deserves to live a comfortable life and to provide a comfortable life for his family. I am not a socialist but in a country where someone can achieve wealth to the point of vulgarity, it is not necessary to accept that others who work hard must live in, or near poverty.

JS

JS
12-13-2012, 08:36 PM
luvmylabs, you seem very bitter about something. I am sorry for you.

JS

murral stark
12-13-2012, 08:47 PM
I can understand why some think that workers organizing is bad. I don't agree but I can understand someone feeling that way.

I grew up in a very conservative, anti-union environment. My grandfather came north from West Virginia as a teenager. He worked as a farmhand and somehow (not sure how) eventually owned his own ground and was a dirt farmer all his life. He lost his farm in the depression and rented the rest of his life until he retired and went to work for an implement dealer in town.

My family was strongly Republican and I remember vividly the political discussions. When I was pre-teen or thereabouts, the coal mine strikes were in full swing and John L. Lewis, the president of the coal miners union and a native Iowan, was the devil himself in my household. He was a terrifying looking soul with his bushy eyebrows and scowling face ... the only image I ever saw of him ... and I was scared to death with everything I had heard of him.

I lived a lot of my youth in foster homes, always hearing the same political sentiments, and it stayed with me for a long time. I am not proud of it but I will admit that my first vote was cast for Nixon and the Republican slate in 1960. I considered myself Republican. That's the way I had been raised.

But as I got out on my own and looked around, I began to realize the world looked a whole lot different to me than I had expected or had been led to believe. I was pretty lucky in that I fell into good paying jobs with decent working conditions, thanks to those before me who had paved the way. I had to work hard but it was worth it.

I had grown up to believe that people who lived poorly were lazy or had "failed". But as a grown man, I saw people who worked other places in my town and worked just as hard as I did, but earning half as much. I started to feel strongly about protecting what I had and helping others to get the same equity. I don't regret the path I chose and am proud of some of the differences I think I have made.

I do not share your hatred for the wealthy. There are evil people with money and there are some who are broke. I feel a person should be rewarded for their hard work. I value hard work. But I don't accept financial success as a measure of a man's worth or stature. I have known many a man who worked as hard or harder than any millionaire alive. That man deserves to live a comfortable life and to provide a comfortable life for his family. I am not a socialist but in a country where someone can achieve wealth to the point of vulgarity, it is not necessary to accept that others who work hard must live in, or near poverty.

JS

Nicely put.

luvmylabs23139
12-13-2012, 09:05 PM
luvmylabs, you seem very bitter about something. I am sorry for you.

JS
Don't feel sorry for me. I came to this country legally as a child. All I see these days is that everything my parents believed in and taught me has been shot to hell. Illegals being aloweed to stay??? what the F??
Work hard to sucseed???? NO so much, just claim the race card and the hard worker gets f'd for the minority do nothing.
MY tax money goes to teaching peopleEnglish?????? WHY????????

jump the border , squat down and plop out the annchor baby aND i HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT???????SCREW that crap!!!!
I'm not bitter I want everyome to play by the rules.

Quackwacker
12-13-2012, 09:08 PM
Worked for a compressed air company and had to carry a big 200 hp unit over to a power plant in Alabama. They were renting the unit. When we backed up to the dock we jumped out of the truck and began to unchain the unit from the truck. We were quickly told to stop what we were doing. We had to wait for union workers to come unchain the unit from the truck. But they were on break. So we had to sit and wait for them. Then we had to wait for a union fork lift driver to come and unload it.

My gosh, We just wanted to get the job done in a timely manner, but couldnt be cause of the union.

JS
12-13-2012, 09:13 PM
Don't feel sorry for me. I came to this country legally as a child. All I see these days is that everything my parents believed in and taught me has been shot to hell. Illegals being aloweed to stay??? what the F??
Work hard to sucseed???? NO so much, just claim the race card and the hard worker gets f'd for the minority do nothing.
MY tax money goes to teaching peopleEnglish?????? WHY????????

jump the border , squat down and plop out the annchor baby aND i HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT???????SCREW that crap!!!!
I'm not bitter I want everyome to play by the rules.

Maybe sitting down at the table with your morning coffee and making a list of all the things you love about this country .....

JS

Quackwacker
12-13-2012, 09:14 PM
What, may I ask, were you told would happen if you chose not to wait, and did it yourself anyway?

I didnt ask. I did what the customer ask me to do.

luvmylabs23139
12-13-2012, 09:33 PM
Maybe sitting down at the table with your morning coffee and making a list of all the things you love about this country .....

JS

THe list I would have written as child 40 something years ago would be much longer than the one I would write today as a US citizen.
The list of what I hate is much longer. Before you tell me to hit the road,my US born husband just won't
go yet.

150class
12-13-2012, 09:50 PM
I am curious. For those of you that hate the unions, what has caused that hatred? I have explained my hatred for "rich" people. Not so much the people themselves, just their actions. Someone recently asked me if I actually hated the rich people or just their actions. Some of those rich people I do personally hate for reasons that make sense to me.

I suppose many things, including the entitlement attitude but when they charged me $200 to plug in my laptop for me at a trade show, that solidified it.

Ken Bora
12-13-2012, 10:15 PM
..... Some of those rich people I do personally hate for reasons that make sense to me.


let it go my friend just let it go. it will eat up your innards.
what did that humble Jesus feller say when asked about the ten commandments?
He said he only had one, smart feller. easier to keep track of with less thou shalt nots......
http://www.intellasound.com/images/Love%20Everybody%20BK.JPG

sometimes cowboy music has it place:cool:

Ken Bora
12-13-2012, 10:20 PM
..... I would write today as a US citizen.
The list of what I hate is much longer..

BTW, BIG congrats on that! Very cool! How was the timing? Were you allowed to vote November last?
as for the hate, see my post to Murral. Two peas in a pod you two are.

murral stark
12-13-2012, 10:32 PM
let it go my friend just let it go. it will eat up your innards.
what did that humble Jesus feller say when asked about the ten commandments?
He said he only had one, smart feller. easier to keep track of with less thou shalt nots......
http://www.intellasound.com/images/Love%20Everybody%20BK.JPG

sometimes cowboy music has it place:cool:

I have tried, I really have. Everytime I see these people (rich people) crying about how they have to give a little more, I have flashbacks and get pizzed all over again. If I had that type of money, Koch brothers, buffet, romney, it wouldn't bother me one bit because that means that I was making money if I had a high tax bill. Ya can't take it with you.

M&K's Retrievers
12-13-2012, 10:41 PM
I have tried, I really have. Everytime I see these people (rich people) crying about how they have to give a little more, I have flashbacks and get pizzed all over again. If I had that type of money, Koch brothers, buffet, romney, it wouldn't bother me one bit because that means that I was making money if I had a high tax bill. Ya can't take it with you.

Unless you are on the government tit, you can't spend other people's money nor should you worry about it.

murral stark
12-13-2012, 10:55 PM
Unless you are on the government tit, you can't spend other people's money nor should you worry about it.

I really think we should go to a flat sales tax/use tax. that way everybody pays the same rate. Eliminate all loopholes and deductions/credits. Nothing gets taken out of your check, what you make is your money to take home and spend as you see fit. That would probably encourage investing since you will not be taxed on your investment income, only what you buy. Now back to our original post.

JDogger
12-13-2012, 11:10 PM
Well Obama's version of the common good make me vomit!!!!! Hopefully he will rot in hell someday.
He wants me to bust my but and steal my hard earned money and give it to the do nothing leaches that voted for him... Screw that idiot!

I have not posted regularly lately. I miss some of the old time poster's. There were some well spoken comments in the past.
Now, mostly I feel that I may be defined by the company I keep...JD

road kill
12-14-2012, 05:37 AM
I don't "hate" anyone.

I do not "hate" any union member.

In specific, trade unions are needed for a variety of reasons.
Many contracters can get needed labor from the hall, a way for guys to get work in the trades.

"DA UNION" is a reference to the type tactics used recently in WI and currently in MI.
And many places and shops daily.

The earlier comment about $150 to plug in computer in Chicago is a fact.
We do trade shows at McCormack place, DA UNION runs DA show.
I also have an issue with the fact DA UNION has become a "cash cow" for the secular progressives.

Some of my best friends are in unions, some are not.


AS far as hating people with money, very poor reason to judge a man.
Judge them by their heart and soul, not their bank account.

I consider myself one of tremendous wealth, do you hate me because of that?

Do you hate menmon??
He reminds us often of his income and finacial stature.

It's all a matter of perspective.

And again, I hate no one.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p147/priaberbajuhitam/emoticon/sampc527c6e698638f51.jpg

M&K's Retrievers
12-14-2012, 08:09 AM
I really think we should go to a flat sales tax/use tax. that way everybody pays the same rate. Eliminate all loopholes and deductions/credits. Nothing gets taken out of your check, what you make is your money to take home and spend as you see fit. That would probably encourage investing since you will not be taxed on your investment income, only what you buy. Now back to our original post.

If there was a hate tax, you would be broke. Get a grip.

Buzz
12-14-2012, 09:06 AM
I don't "hate" anyone.

I do not "hate" any union member.

In specific, trade unions are needed for a variety of reasons.
Many contracters can get needed labor from the hall, a way for guys to get work in the trades.

"DA UNION" is a reference to the type tactics used recently in WI and currently in MI.
And many places and shops daily.

The earlier comment about $150 to plug in computer in Chicago is a fact.
We do trade shows at McCormack place, DA UNION runs DA show.
I also have an issue with the fact DA UNION has become a "cash cow" for the secular progressives.

Some of my best friends are in unions, some are not.


AS far as hating people with money, very poor reason to judge a man.
Judge them by their heart and soul, not their bank account.

I consider myself one of tremendous wealth, do you hate me because of that?

Do you hate menmon??
He reminds us often of his income and finacial stature.

It's all a matter of perspective.

And again, I hate no one.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p147/priaberbajuhitam/emoticon/sampc527c6e698638f51.jpg


I know that I come off as a total union supporter on here. Far from the truth. I have had sort of a bad taste in my mouth since the mid '80s about unions. I was just getting my start as a young twenty something working for a non-union shop in Detroit. I had moved back down there from Northern Michigan and was staying with my grandpa for 6 months, saving up the money to move into an apartment. I was making about $10/hour at the time. It was back when Lopez was in charge of purchasing at General Motors. Our company's owner had frozen wages at the time. The economy was not good. Also at the time GM was imposing pricing cuts on their suppliers. The owner having frozen wages posted a letter that he received from GM purchasing. The letter did not ASK for price cuts, the DEMANDED them, stating that if our prices were not cut by something like 10-15%, we would be removed from the approved vendor list.

At that time, GM went on strike. I had to drive past factories with picket lines out front. Knowing at the time that those guys were bringing in eighteen to twenty something an hour, and had awesome benefits, my blood boiled. Their management was MANDATING price concessions from us and the workers were DEMANDING higher wages at a time when the economy was really struggling. I wanted to stop, get out, and throw a few punches at those asshats that were out picketing.

I talked about it with Grandpa while we were watching the news and they were discussing the strikes. Grandpa was one of the original union supporters. He was foreman in a big machine shop at Cadillac Motors before they were part of GM. He told me stories about management lining up the machinists periodically for military type inspections. Guys would get picked on publicly, and periodically they would fire someone during the inspections to instill fear into the ranks. He told me a story about a guy who was supporting a family at home. The guy had an accident and his legs were permanently crippled. The guy could not stand in front of a machine all day. My grandpa said that there was no reason for the guy to stand all day long. He got the guy a stool. The guy was loading parts and then sitting down while the part was being machined. He would get up to make adjustments between cuts, then sit back down. Then back up again to switch out parts. The boss came down and had a fit & took the guy's stool away. Grandpa tried to explain the guy's situation and the big boss says NO ONE will sit on a stool in my shop, I don't care who they are or what their situation. He fired the guy on the spot. That's when Grandpa decided to support the union movement. Anyhow, when we were discussing the strikes that were going on, he looked at me teary eyed and said, this is not what we had in mind.

But in the end, over all, I think the good outweighs the bad. My Dad was a union firefighter. The union forced the city to upgrade working conditions, forced them kicking and screaming to provide adequate safety equipment, etc. I have worked in shops unionized by the IEBW. They were a pain in the arse sometimes, but they did provide very good apprentice training for the employees. There were some in the union that were dead wood, but more often than not they were taken care of with peer pressure from fellow union members. Remember, when someone drags butt, it just puts pressure on the others who work hard to pick up the slack.

The union members are not angels. But I have been in management too, and from what I have heard in meetings, there are some real asshats in that position too. And in the end, I feel it would be much easier for our society to fall back into the practices that took place before the union movement than you might think.

caryalsobrook
12-14-2012, 09:23 AM
I know that I come off as a total union supporter on here. Far from the truth. I have had sort of a bad taste in my mouth since the mid '80s about unions. I was just getting my start as a young twenty something working for a non-union shop in Detroit. I had moved back down there from Northern Michigan and was staying with my grandpa for 6 months, saving up the money to move into an apartment. I was making about $10/hour at the time. It was back when Lopez was in charge of purchasing at General Motors. Our company's owner had frozen wages at the time. The economy was not good. Also at the time GM was imposing pricing cuts on their suppliers. The owner having frozen wages posted a letter that he received from GM purchasing. The letter did not ASK for price cuts, the DEMANDED them, stating that if our prices were not cut by something like 10-15%, we would be removed from the approved vendor list.

At that time, GM went on strike. I had to drive past factories with picket lines out front. Knowing at the time that those guys were bringing in eighteen to twenty something an hour, and had awesome benefits, my blood boiled. Their management was MANDATING price concessions from us and the workers were DEMANDING higher wages at a time when the economy was really struggling. I wanted to stop, get out, and throw a few punches at those asshats that were out picketing.

I talked about it with Grandpa while we were watching the news and they were discussing the strikes. Grandpa was one of the original union supporters. He was foreman in a big machine shop at Cadillac Motors before they were part of GM. He told me stories about management lining up the machinists periodically for military type inspections. Guys would get picked on publicly, and periodically they would fire someone during the inspections to instill fear into the ranks. He told me a story about a guy who was supporting a family at home. The guy had an accident and his legs were permanently crippled. The guy could not stand in front of a machine all day. My grandpa said that there was no reason for the guy to stand all day long. He got the guy a stool. The guy was loading parts and then sitting down while the part was being machined. He would get up to make adjustments between cuts, then sit back down. Then back up again to switch out parts. The boss came down and had a fit & took the guy's stool away. Grandpa tried to explain the guy's situation and the big boss says NO ONE will sit on a stool in my shop, I don't care who they are or what their situation. He fired the guy on the spot. That's when Grandpa decided to support the union movement. Anyhow, when we were discussing the strikes that were going on, he looked at me teary eyed and said, this is not what we had in mind.

But in the end, over all, I think the good outweighs the bad. My Dad was a union firefighter. The union forced the city to upgrade working conditions, forced them kicking and screaming to provide adequate safety equipment, etc. I have worked in shops unionized by the IEBW. They were a pain in the arse sometimes, but they did provide very good apprentice training for the employees. There were some in the union that were dead wood, but more often than not they were taken care of with peer pressure from fellow union members. Remember, when someone drags butt, it just puts pressure on the others who work hard to pick up the slack.

The union members are not angels. But I have been in management too, and from what I have heard in meetings, there are some real asshats in that position too. And in the end, I feel it would be much easier for our society to fall back into the practices that took place before the union movement than you might think.

Enjoyed the post. One thing for sure, we have all grown up with different experiences. I grew up in the south when the Civil War still had it's effects. Not 100% gone but almost there. I like to look for what works, that is raising the standard of living for EVERYBODY, and capitalism does that best. Nothing is all good or all bad. Unions are in decline and if the good is to survive then they must change to make the good outweigh the bad. In my lifetime, I have seen tremendous growth in the standard of living of all. Hopefully ALL our children will experience the same.

JS
12-14-2012, 10:13 AM
It's interesting that labor unions are at a historic low point any way you measure it; in terms of membership, workplaces represented, influence on the economy or influence on government. Members in general are far less interested in the workings or importance of their union, I believe because the younger members never had to go through the struggles to gain what was just there for them when they hired on. They take everything for granted.

(I compare this to retriever clubs having trouble getting members motivated and involved in the work of the club ... it's mostly the "old guys" who carry the load because they are the ones who realize it's "do it or we die". Same syndrome.)

The enigma with the perception of unions is that despite the declining influence of labor, so many people rage on about the terrible conditions of the country and blame it on the unions!!

I don't get that. :???:

JS

murral stark
12-14-2012, 03:19 PM
I don't "hate" anyone.

I do not "hate" any union member.

In specific, trade unions are needed for a variety of reasons.
Many contracters can get needed labor from the hall, a way for guys to get work in the trades.

"DA UNION" is a reference to the type tactics used recently in WI and currently in MI.
And many places and shops daily.

The earlier comment about $150 to plug in computer in Chicago is a fact.
We do trade shows at McCormack place, DA UNION runs DA show.
I also have an issue with the fact DA UNION has become a "cash cow" for the secular progressives.

Some of my best friends are in unions, some are not.


AS far as hating people with money, very poor reason to judge a man.
Judge them by their heart and soul, not their bank account.

I consider myself one of tremendous wealth, do you hate me because of that?

Do you hate menmon??
He reminds us often of his income and finacial stature.

It's all a matter of perspective.

And again, I hate no one.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p147/priaberbajuhitam/emoticon/sampc527c6e698638f51.jpg

Caryalsobrook pointed out to me that it is not so much the people as their actions. You make a very good statement Stan. "Rich" people that have treated me badly are the ones that I personally hate. People that have goodness in their heart and don't think they are any better than anyone else because of their monetary status are good people. It's the others that get me riled.

murral stark
12-14-2012, 03:20 PM
If there was a hate tax, you would be broke. Get a grip.

I'd gladly pay double the rate if it involved you. You have no idea how badly I'd like to get a grip.

starjack
12-14-2012, 03:24 PM
Does any of this matter today

hotel4dogs
12-14-2012, 03:38 PM
X 2 ! Packer Backer from way back.


I hate you because you get to go to Packers games..... ;)

Buzz
12-14-2012, 03:49 PM
Does any of this matter today


Thank you...

murral stark
12-14-2012, 05:54 PM
Does any of this matter today

I was just trying to find out why people think that unions are evil and what led them to believe that.

starjack
12-14-2012, 07:15 PM
I was just trying to find out why people think that unions are evil and what led them to believe that.Who the hell cares did you look at the news. I did not know how to take you but now i am ashamed you live in my state. BTW One of my best friend is a union member. I do not belong to a union

murral stark
12-14-2012, 07:55 PM
Who the hell cares did you look at the news. I did not know how to take you but now i am ashamed you live in my state. BTW One of my best friend is a union member. I do not belong to a union

You didn't answer the question. I care because I would like to understand why so much animosity toward unions. When people's livliehood gets threatened, they get pizzed. Just like many here that are pizzed that Obama won the election again. the people that are angry that Obama got re-elected feel that their livliehood is being threatened. Same with the people in MI that were on the news, they feel their livliehood is being threatened by the new law. They are over the top with their behavior. We only saw the edited clip of what led to the yelling and punches being thrown. the guy that made the video clip has a history of agitating people.

sick lids
12-18-2012, 09:27 AM
Lol. Where to start. P!ssing in my wood filler, cutting all the ends to my extension cords, shuting all power off in my unit on their breaks,doing very shody repairs and over billing for them, thinking I am the one geting robbed by my boss (selfemployed) and telling me how good they have it when I am driving the better truck and living in the better neighborhood. And the best doing a 200+ man walk off when i started a job because i am considerd an artist for some of the work I'm capable of, which none of them could do, not to mention the idle death threats that were slung out from the crowd on my way in. NOT TO MENTION THEY WOULD NOT HIRE ME AS AN 18 YR OLD BECAUSE I DID NOT KNOW THE RIGHT PEOPLE, WAS NOT A MINORITY OR FEMALE.

Larry Thompson1
12-19-2012, 07:15 PM
I really think we should go to a flat sales tax/use tax. that way everybody pays the same rate. Eliminate all loopholes and deductions/credits. Nothing gets taken out of your check, what you make is your money to take home and spend as you see fit. That would probably encourage investing since you will not be taxed on your investment income, only what you buy. Now back to our original post.

I believe this was introduced as the "FAIR TAX". In the 2008 pres debates by ex governer of Arkansas. I agreed with it then and now. Catches everybody the same. Fire the IRS. Theres some money we can save. I don't hate the unions just thier policy's. I don't hate anyone who has done well by working hard and plays by the rules. I hate the lazy takers though. Call me an angry old guy I don't.

Uncle Bill
12-20-2012, 02:11 PM
Stories like this are why I'm not in favor of unionistas. UB

Meet the Bosses of the Ohio Education AssociationIt pays to be in charge of Ohio's most powerful progressive groupBy: Jason Hart (http://www.retrievertraining.net/users/jasonahart/) (Diary (http://www.retrievertraining.net/jasonahart/)) |


http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/files/2012/06/oea-logo.jpgOhio Education Association (OEA) President Patricia Frost-Brooks was paid $267,916 in dues taken from Ohio teachers during fiscal year 2012, according to the union’s latest staff and officer data (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/files/2012/12/OEA-pay-DOL-FY2012.pdf) submitted to the U.S. Department of Labor. More than a hundred OEA employees and officers were paid six figures during the same period, as the union gave $77,500 to progressive groups who demonize “the rich” in the name of bigger government.

Frost-Brooks, the Ohio Democratic Party’s “Democrat of the Year (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/08/06/ohio-education-association-president-named-democrat-of-the-year/),” was one of seven OEA employees and officers paid more than $175,000 from September 1, 2011 to August 31, 2012.


Patricia Frost-Brooks, President: $267,916
Larry Wicks, Executive Director: $222,167
William Leibensperger, Vice President: $193,766
James Timlin, Secretary-Treasurer: $189,640
Bonnie Joseph, Labor Relations Consultant: $181,319
James Martin, Assistant Executive Director: $178,009
Thomas Jowhar, Labor Relations Consultant: $175,816


OEA bosses routinely portray Ohio teachers as underpaid and under assault. A quick review of the dollar amounts these individuals take from Ohio teachers reveals a stark contrast from their political posturing.

For instance, a page on the OEA website (http://www.ohea.org/no-rights-at-work) titled “The Truth About So-Called ‘Right to Work’” warns,”if you look just beneath the surface of the ‘right to work’ cause, you will see a campaign that is built on distortions and predicated on lies and whose unstated purpose would undermine workers’ safety, economic security and well-being. The true goal of right to work is to put more money into the pockets of corporate shareholders.”

OEA currently faces a class-action suit (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/08/29/ohio-education-association-faces-lawsuit-over-fair-share-fees/) from more than a dozen educators forced to pay hundreds of dollars each year in “fair share” fees due to Ohio’s lack of a workplace freedom law. The teachers claim OEA and several of its locals have failed to adequately account for spending and justify the amount of mandatory dues taken from their paychecks.

For rhetoric even more outrageous than what OEA publishes on its own website, the union turns to front group We Are Ohio (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/12/10/reality-vs-we-are-ohios-right-to-work-is-wrong-infographic/), a campaign committee funded primarily by OEA dues (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/04/27/we-are-ohio-bankrolled-by-liberal-unions-not-bipartisan-citizen-groups/). OEA leans on the lie that We Are Ohio is a “citizen-driven, community-based, bipartisan coalition” when promoting We Are Ohio-branded talking points via the union’s magazine (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/10/17/forced-dues-make-ohio-education-association-a-powerful-obama-ally/) and social media accounts (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/07/17/ohio-teachers-forced-dues-fund-online-leftism/).
In addition to We Are Ohio, OEA bankrolls several other progressive organizations devoted to the higher taxes and bigger government necessary to maintain the salaries listed here. In the past fiscal year alone, OEA gave $25,000 to Innovation Ohio (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/files/2012/12/OEA-innovation-ohio-LM2-2012.gif), $22,500 to ProgressOhio (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/files/2012/12/OEA-progressohio-LM2-2012.gif), $20,000 to Policy Matters Ohio (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/files/2012/12/OEA-policy-matters-ohio-LM2-2012.gif), and $10,000 to One Ohio Now (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/files/2012/12/OEA-one-ohio-now-LM2-2012.gif).

Continuing down the list of total disbursements reported to the Department of Labor, 18 OEA employees were paid between $150,000 and $175,000 in fiscal 2012.


Kevin Flanagan, Assistant Executive Director – Member Services: $170,881
Venita Shoulders, Labor Relations Consultant: $168,976
Rachelle Johnson, Assistant Executive Director – Member Services: $166,814
Donald Dalton, Labor Relations Consultant: $166,119
Susan Babcock, Assistant Executive Director: $164,768
William Pearsol, Labor Relations Consultant: $160,463
Diane Tieman, Labor Relations Consultant: $157,496
Patricia Collins Murdock, Regional Director: $156,091
V. Randall Flora, Director Of Education Policy: $155,573
George Bozovich, Labor Relations Consultant: $154,794
Linda Fiely, General Counsel: $154,592
Cristina Munoz-Nedrow, Regional Director: $153,562
Jeffrey Kestner, Regional Director: $152,728
Parry Norris, Regional Director: $152,636
Mary Suchy, Director Of Membership: $152,511
Rodney Bird, Labor Relations Consultant: $152,074
Talmadge Hutchins, Labor Relations Consultant: $151,968
Robert Matkowski, Labor Relations Consultant: $150,023


A total of 119 OEA employees and officers were paid more than $100,000 during the most recent fiscal year. Another 17 OEA employees were paid between $75,000 and $100,000 in member dues.

Above and beyond the millions OEA spends each year on six-figure salaries for over 100 employees – and the tens of thousands OEA shovels to progressive lobbying groups – OEA devotes a huge portion of member dues to politics. Media Trackers has cataloged the ways OEA trains, endorses, and promotes liberal candidates (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/08/29/teachers-union-works-with-leftist-groups-to-train-legislative-candidates/) for state offices, boosts liberal candidates (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/07/09/ohio-education-association-promotes-educators-for-obama/) for national offices, and viciously smears any opponent (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/06/25/unions-plan-to-recycle-2011-campaign-rhetoric-tactics/) of big government.

In 2011, OEA took $54 from each member (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/05/07/teachers-union-oks-54-assessment-to-aid-referendum-on-collective-bargaining-law.html) to fund We Are Ohio, which was created in part because OEA has given itself a bad name (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/06/07/why-the-ohio-education-association-needs-we-are-ohio/). In 2010 alone, OEA was picketed by members of its own staff and settled a class-action suit against retirees whose health insurance benefits the union slashed.

This year, OEA increased member dues by $22 (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/06/21/teachers-union-hikes-dues-for-redistricting-takeover/) in order to dump nearly $2.5 million into Voters First Ohio (http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/12/18/ohio-democratic-party-dc-unions-led-late-voters-first-funding/), the labor movement’s failed takeover of Ohio’s political map-making process.

mngundog
12-20-2012, 03:00 PM
So a CEO of a failing company making millions of dollars can't be vilified and a Union President making a fraction of that is evil, imagine that, what color is the sky in your world? :D

huntinman
12-20-2012, 06:54 PM
So a CEO of a failing company making millions of dollars can't be vilified and a Union President making a fraction of that is evil, imagine that, what color is the sky in your world? :D

Seems to me the CEO's are villified non stop by libs and media alike... Even the one's from profitable companies.

Troy Tilleraas
12-23-2012, 05:01 PM
The union has it's place. What is typical is the union in an area of the country is not much different than their non-union counterparts. Work ethic is work ethic. I was a union member first in Los Angeles 25 years ago, most people worked 7 hours a day for 8 hours pay. I moved back to the midwest 3 years later and it got a lot closer 8 for 8. I moved into management 12 years ago and my salary is based on the union guys scale! I did strike duty for 6 weeks in New York City about 10 years ago and have never been so ashamed of human beings in all my life! I was offered a job by just about every building I worked in. These very highly paid tradespeople had contacts hooked up to timers so equipment would fail after hours so they would get double time callbacks. Couches, sleeping areas, adult magazines and misc. non-working items cluttered their areas. Work ethic...

road kill
01-08-2013, 06:37 AM
All one needs to do is objectively review what's going on in Illinois, a state RUN by DA UNIONs.

That is the problem.....................

sick lids
02-17-2013, 02:48 PM
for marvin

ripline
02-17-2013, 07:17 PM
don't feel sorry for me. I came to this country legally as a child. All i see these days is that everything my parents believed in and taught me has been shot to hell. Illegals being aloweed to stay??? What the f??
Work hard to sucseed???? No so much, just claim the race card and the hard worker gets f'd for the minority do nothing.
My tax money goes to teaching peopleenglish?????? Why????????

Jump the border , squat down and plop out the annchor baby and i have to pay for that???????screw that crap!!!!
I'm not bitter i want everyome to play by the rules.

amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beaker
02-19-2013, 12:26 PM
I am curious. For those of you that hate the unions, what has caused that hatred? I have explained my hatred for "rich" people. Not so much the people themselves, just their actions. Someone recently asked me if I actually hated the rich people or just their actions. Some of those rich people I do personally hate for reasons that make sense to me.

I don’t like to use hate but.…..I only “hate” the government unions that want my tax dollars to pay their unsustainable pensions. If a private sector union wants to be stupid with their money…more power to them.