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Buzz
12-14-2012, 11:57 AM
I just turned on the news in my office and got the news of the evil that took place in a kindergarten.

We don't know how many dead. I have never believed that we would lose our gun rights in this country. This morning I have changed my mind. Maybe it's just that the pure evil and shock value of this event has knocked the sense out of me. But I now firmly believe that we will eventually lose our right to bear arms. The politicians will be blamed, but we can only blame the pure unadulterated evil of these assholes that keep killing innocent people.

I have nothing more to say on this. I'm just too shocked. I think I need to go puke... Then I might just have to sit down and cry for the victims.

Daniel J Simoens
12-14-2012, 12:03 PM
time to ban schools

Jason Glavich
12-14-2012, 12:15 PM
Sad day for sure. 27 killed, 18 of them are kids. They think there may be a 2nd shooter.

huntinman
12-14-2012, 12:26 PM
Schools are an easy target for nuts like this because they know there is no one there to stop them... Someone with a weapon that was trained to use it may have been able to minimize the carnage.

Much like the movie theater in Denver...

firehouselabs
12-14-2012, 12:31 PM
First all the natural disasters. Then the economic collapses. Coupled with the blatant disregard of humanity by all of the mass shootings in the last couple of years, maybe the world SHOULD end next week. If this is what we have to look forward to, more and more tragedies and loss of innocent lives, people experiencing levels of desperation and cruelty, the masses that have given up on their religion, their government. I'm not sure if maybe the Universe would be better off if we weren't in it any longer!! I don't have a death wish, but as long as the "end" was one big bang without any suffering, versus the kind of world we are becoming, it sounds like the more "humane" option!!!

Franco
12-14-2012, 12:34 PM
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/148221_431457540242879_1931803674_n.jpg

Dustin D
12-14-2012, 12:58 PM
How many more kids will have to die before Competent Teachers and/or Principals/Asst. Principals are allowed to protect their schools properly?

Violence isn't going away.

and it's not all b/c of the gun. China just had a school attack where a guy sliced up 22 kids before being stopped.

The 2nd Amendment allows us to protect ourselves with the same measure that can be used against us.

Gun Free Zones are to blame for this and ALL WHO SUPPORT such a ridiculous notion.

The Gun Free Zone signs needs to held accountable as well as those who were in charge of putting them there.

gmhr1
12-14-2012, 01:03 PM
A guy in China just killed 22 kids with a knife lets ban those to. The bad guys that want to kill will always find a way.

Buzz
12-14-2012, 01:07 PM
Good luck with that.

road kill
12-14-2012, 01:07 PM
I have a favor to ask, as I sit here with tears in my eyes.

Can we please can the smart ass comments on this for at least 1 day?

For those with children, can you imagine anything worse?
There is no politics here, this is just plain awful......my heart hurts.

Let it be.


Thank you,

stan b

gmhr1
12-14-2012, 01:12 PM
Prayers are sent for all. Prayers sent for America we are pretty sick. They are reporting this 20 year old also killed his mother and father. Its very sad that 5 year olds cant even be safe at school . The entire kindergarten class is unaccounted for.

starjack
12-14-2012, 01:18 PM
I just turned on the news in my office and got the news of the evil that took place in a kindergarten.

We don't know how many dead. I have never believed that we would lose our gun rights in this country. This morning I have changed my mind. Maybe it's just that the pure evil and shock value of this event has knocked the sense out of me. But I now firmly believe that we will eventually lose our right to bear arms. The politicians will be blamed, but we can only blame the pure unadulterated evil of these assholes that keep killing innocent people.

I have nothing more to say on this. I'm just too shocked. I think I need to go puke... Then I might just have to sit down and cry for the victims.I am with you 100%

scott spalding
12-14-2012, 01:19 PM
I have a favor to ask, as I sit here with tears in my eyes.

Can we please can the smart ass comments on this for at least 1 day?

For those with children, can you imagine anything worse?
There is no politics here, this is just plain awful......my heart hurts.

Let it be.


Thank you,

stan b
Very well said Stan! Very Sad day.

huntinman
12-14-2012, 01:22 PM
I have a favor to ask, as I sit here with tears in my eyes.

Can we please can the smart ass comments on this for at least 1 day?

For those with children, can you imagine anything worse?
There is no politics here, this is just plain awful......my heart hurts.

Let it be.


Thank you,

stan b

Stan, while I appreciate the sentiment, do you the the MSM will let it be for at least 1 day? One of the problems "our side" has is that we think logically and with feeling at times like these. The anti-gun nuts and the media will use it for everything they can, regardless of who it hurts. The same as the do with all the other senseless killings like this...

road kill
12-14-2012, 01:23 PM
Stan, while I appreciate the sentiment, do you the the MSM will let it be for at least 1 day? One of the problems "our side" has is that we think logically and with feeling at times like these. The anti-gun nuts and the media will use it for everything they can, regardless of who it hurts. The same as the do with all the other senseless killings like this...

They are what they are, we (I) are not that.

I like to think that most of us here have way more class than them.

stan b

huntinman
12-14-2012, 01:25 PM
They are what they are, we (I) are not that.

stan b

Same here... But that may be why we are in the boat we find ourselves in (politically speaking)

starjack
12-14-2012, 01:27 PM
The more i hear the more in shock i get. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH PEPOLE

huntinman
12-14-2012, 01:32 PM
How many more kids will have to die before Competent Teachers and/or Principals/Asst. Principals are allowed to protect their schools properly?

Violence isn't going away.

and it's not all b/c of the gun. China just had a school attack where a guy sliced up 22 kids before being stopped.

The 2nd Amendment allows us to protect ourselves with the same measure that can be used against us.

Gun Free Zones are to blame for this and ALL WHO SUPPORT such a ridiculous notion.

The Gun Free Zone signs needs to held accountable as well as those who were in charge of putting them there.

This is right on the money...

Buzz
12-14-2012, 01:34 PM
I have a favor to ask, as I sit here with tears in my eyes.

Can we please can the smart ass comments on this for at least 1 day?

For those with children, can you imagine anything worse?
There is no politics here, this is just plain awful......my heart hurts.

Let it be.


Thank you,

stan b


I'm with you. I was just in a Hyvee store getting my lunch. A hunting partner came up to me to arrange hunting on some private land he got between Christmas & New Year. Then the topic of this shooting came up and there we were, two grown men wiping tears from our eyes in the middle of a busy grocery store.

gmhr1
12-14-2012, 01:35 PM
My daughter teaches in a public school alot of kids are freaked out because the world is supposed to end on the 21 . They are so upset that the parents want a therapist to come in. They really believe this. I wonder if this thought entered this shooters head?
Maybe its time to take the same safety precautions going onto a school campus as we do at the airport.

http://news.yahoo.com/mayan-prophecy-sparks-dread-hope-world-gears-supposed-213019316.html

jeff evans
12-14-2012, 01:47 PM
I too am in tears yet want to scream, but I am truly speechless. I'm having trouble believing this is true...I am heart broken.

luvmylabs23139
12-14-2012, 02:15 PM
I'm just in shock. I honestly cannot believe that this happened in Newtown,CT. Stuff like this jsut doesn't happen around there. I grew up in the area.

BonMallari
12-14-2012, 02:39 PM
went with Dana to her daughter's school to have lunch,Ashley is in kindergarden...we are just numb to the point that we didn't want to even talk about the situation...

HUG YOUR KIDS TONIGHT,NO MATTER WHAT THEIR AGE......say a Prayer for all the kids and their family's

duckheads
12-14-2012, 03:03 PM
Very sad day indeed! Brings tears to my eyes to think of the little innocent children in that classroom. It then turns my stomach and makes me want to puke. Then it turns to anger at the person that could do such a thing and our society that is creating such monsters!

I have had my carry permit for a long time but got away from carrying on a daily basis. Started back again a couple weeks ago and will continue.

starjack
12-14-2012, 03:13 PM
Going to get mine next week

Gun_Dog2002
12-14-2012, 03:31 PM
Apparently the whackjob killed someone at home and his mom was a victim as well. Unbelievable...

/Paul

Jacob Hawkes
12-14-2012, 04:02 PM
This is unexplainable. "You can't make sense out of nonsense.", so stop trying. 4 & 5 year old kids killed because of somebody who had a family issue. Sorry b#stard doesn't do it justice. I feel terrible for the families & friends of them who were stripped of innocence & their pride & joy. I can't begin to imagine.

Guns don't kill people. It's a technical impossibility. When you take guns away from the innocent, you're basically condemning them to certain failure.

Maybe we can get people off of welfare by creating security jobs @ schools & public places. Just a quick fix that makes too much sense & will never come to fruition.

starjack
12-14-2012, 04:23 PM
I am not blameing anybody. But i deliver to the green bay public schools every day . A ll staff and vendors have cards for the card readers. the parents and vistors have a push button entercom with a camera to see if they are allowed to come in.

If this basturd was dressed like he was i can not believe he was let in. This might be to soon to talk about but i have to get it off my chest

Mary Lynn Metras
12-14-2012, 05:29 PM
Unbelievable. Don't know what to say. I am so sad. Prayers out to all!!!!

Eric Johnson
12-14-2012, 06:38 PM
The news has corrected themselves. He (younger brother) killed his mother at home and then drove to the school and started shooting. His older brother is at his house in NJ as is the father. Mixed reporting on whether they live together. Older brother reports the younger brother had some mental problems. What is not reported yet is a definitive answer on the guy in the field that was removed in handcuffs. Guesses range from 1) he was just a by-stander that ran like heck to 2) he was connected to the shooter.

Shooting appears to be with hand-guns although the hue and cry has already started about "assault weapons".

We have got to accept the fact that mental illness occurs in the population a lot more often than the population of the hospitals and community centers would lead us to believe. We see lots of episodic and minor illnesses. They come and they go. However, we seem to feel that mental illness only comes on as a really obvious and overt act. By the time the overt act happens, it's often too late.

Rick Vaughan
12-14-2012, 06:55 PM
I've set in my office most of the day, tears constantly filling my eyes...I can only pray for God to enlighten us with His love and His mercy...What has happened to our Country and this world?

1st retriever
12-14-2012, 07:57 PM
So so so sad! All those kids were doing was looking forward to Santa coming. Prayers out to everyone!!!

Gerry Clinchy
12-14-2012, 08:18 PM
The news has corrected themselves. He (younger brother) killed his mother at home and then drove to the school and started shooting. His older brother is at his house in NJ as is the father. Mixed reporting on whether they live together. Older brother reports the younger brother had some mental problems. What is not reported yet is a definitive answer on the guy in the field that was removed in handcuffs. Guesses range from 1) he was just a by-stander that ran like heck to 2) he was connected to the shooter.

Shooting appears to be with hand-guns although the hue and cry has already started about "assault weapons".

We have got to accept the fact that mental illness occurs in the population a lot more often than the population of the hospitals and community centers would lead us to believe. We see lots of episodic and minor illnesses. They come and they go. However, we seem to feel that mental illness only comes on as a really obvious and overt act. By the time the overt act happens, it's often too late.
Reports I heard said that the shooter, Adam, age 20, was first mis-identified as his older brother, Ryan, 24, since he was carrying Ryan's ID.

The school did have a system to "buzz in" people. It is suspected that Adam was known at the school, due to his mother working there, and that is why he was allowed to enter the building. He also seemed to know which classroom his mother worked in.

There is a dead man in Hoboken, NJ. At first he was said to be the shooter's father, but later they seemed to back down on exactly who the man was.

20 children died. 2 had been taken to the hospital and died there. 6 adults at the school, and the 7th was the shooter, himself, who took his own life. But also heard conflicting reports that the total adults killed were 27, but the mother would have made 28; and the man in NJ 29. At first it sounded as if his mother was at the school, since it was her kindergarten class that was attacked. So the total number is not clear.

One report said that two of the teachers took children to one of the bathrooms and locked the door. Maybe schools need a "safe room" (or several of them) to protect against a situation like this? There was a lot of praise for how the teachers kept their heads about them during this situation; and when it was over & they were able to evacuate the survivors to the nearby firehouse.

My brain simply can't imagine any human being doing this horror. Makes me wonder if he was on some kind of drugs.

MooseGooser
12-14-2012, 08:24 PM
Words cannot expalin the feeling of sitting in your truck eating an early lunch, listening to the radio, and hearing that there was a reported shooting at the High school your child attends...

You are 1 hour from home.

You cannot get information as to the whereabouts of your child. Your pager is ringing off the hook, but you have no cell phone to call any of the numbers..

You get home,, and still no idea where your child is. You go to the evacuation area, and watch bus load after bus load of kids depart the bus,, but still your child isnt there..

4 hrs later,, He arrives on your door step..

This was my experience with this on April 20th 1999.

Most all of us have no idea the grief, heartbreak and sadness that are happening to that community.
There are no answers.... Only Prayer..

We have to start to realise we must take care of ourselves, familay and friends.

If we know somwone who is troubled,, its up to each of us to extend a hand to offer help..

Please folks, PRAY for those people who have been hurt today..


Gooser

JDogger
12-14-2012, 08:27 PM
A very sad day.

Would it be possible to still protect the 2nd amendment rights of responsible gun owners, and yet weed out those who are less than responsible. Perhaps a coalition bringing together Federal, State, and local LE maybe teamed with the NRA, and our woefully defunded mental health care system, to expand and broaden the background check system. Maybe a training program for those who wish to purchase and own semi-automatic, high-capacity firearms, and I'm not talking about the semiauto 12 Ga. Certainly the military and LE are trained in the use of such. Why not the individual?
I know that expands the role of government. Not what I wish for either

Lately I have noticed that relatively cheap AR platforms are now for sale at my local Walmart. I'm sure many of the purchasers are not hunters nor do they live in urban environments where self-protection is an element to be considered. JD

dixidawg
12-14-2012, 08:38 PM
How would that have helped in today's tragedy?

Dustin D
12-14-2012, 08:50 PM
1-Would it be possible to still protect the 2nd amendment rights of responsible gun owners, and yet weed out those who are less than responsible.
2- to expand and broaden the background check system.
3-Maybe a training program for those who wish to purchase and own semi-automatic, high-capacity firearms, and I'm not talking about the semiauto 12 Ga. Certainly the military and LE are trained in the use of such. Why not the individual?

4 - I'm sure many of the purchasers are not hunters nor do they live in urban environments where self-protection is an element to be considered.


1 - Yes. Allow people to properly defend themselves EVERY WHERE and stop polarizing gun owners as idiot tin foil red necks.
2 - What makes you think background checks would have prevented this? He didn't go buy this gun from Academy and then commit the crime.
3 - What does Law Abiding Citizens taking training have to do with anything? This kid just killed almost 30 people WITHOUT training. The training I'd support is training the School Staff to be able to competently engage these wackos so they'll off themselves quicker rather than walking around shooting innocent people for 15 minutes before the cops show up or someone decides to do something. Most all these Active Shooters shoot themselves immediately after running out of ammo, being confronted or as soon as it looks like their plan is folding. Nothing spells Failed Plan like lead coming your way from an Armed Teacher! Texas has the right idea.
4 - Hunting and Self-Protection aren't the only reason to own guns nor should they be.

MooseGooser
12-14-2012, 08:51 PM
the following:

Darrel scotts testamony before house judiciary commitee.

Darrel Scott is the father of rachel Scott, one of the Columbine victims.

Ithink it is spot on!

DARRELL SCOTT TESTIMONY
Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologis t, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:
"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain Their blood cries out for answers.
"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart. "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA.
I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent. I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room.
Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. " I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:
Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question "Why?" You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need!
"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history.
Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictiv e laws. "Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999 , at Columbine High Sc hool prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA - I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

huntinman
12-14-2012, 08:55 PM
1 - Yes. Allow people to properly defend themselves EVERY WHERE and stop polarizing gun owners as idiot tin foil red necks.
2 - What makes you think background checks would have prevented this? He didn't go buy this gun from Academy and then commit the crime.
3 - What does Law Abiding Citizens taking training have to do with anything? This kid just killed almost 30 people WITHOUT training. The training I'd support is training the School Staff to be able to competently engage these wackos so they'll off themselves quicker rather than walking around shooting innocent people for 15 minutes before the cops show up or someone decides to do something. Most all these Active Shooters shoot themselves immediately after running out of ammo, being confronted or as soon as it looks like their plan is folding. Nothing spells Failed Plan like lead coming your way from an Armed Teacher! Texas has the right idea.
4 - Hunting and Self-Protection aren't the only reason to own guns nor should they be.

Again... Right on the money... 100%

firehouselabs
12-14-2012, 08:57 PM
Our school system at one time has considered (would most likely have gone through with it except for lacking the funding) having a plains clothed officer on duty at each school, much like the air marshals for airplanes/ports. If you cannot arm the teachers or other administrative personnel, after all, we wouldn't want them to be "disgruntled" employees, then this is a viable option.

I work at my son's school before and after, caring for those kids that need dropped off early and those that need to stay until 6pm. We have these kids in the commons/cafeteria which is only 20ft from the front doors. We have NO plan for getting kids out in the case of someone coming in with a hidden gun. Yes, we have the buzzer and camera, but like this shooter, family members of kids and teachers get "buzzed" in all the time. When this issue was discussed between myself and my co-worker, the only thing that we could come up with is to yell "FIRE" - "FIRE DRILL" and try to get the kids to go out our fire route. All the classrooms are locked so there is NO place to hide, no doors on any of the bathrooms, and all open rooms- office, library, and teachers lounge- have huge picture windows where a gunman could enter easily.

I would love to be allowed to carry my pistol with me- but obviously that wouldn't be allowed!!!!

I guess if we, as a society are not going to change our thinking- about how we raise our children, how we conduct ourselves, and how we continue to allow our values to fall in the gutter, then horrendous acts of violence will continue to plague our country.

tuckerdutch
12-14-2012, 09:03 PM
Our society is sick and septic. these mass shootings are simply the visible pox on the surface. We've become a faithless self absorbed society which keeps producing these ahole 20 year olds who believe they have the right to kill because life didn't unfold the way they thought. I don't know what the answer is.

JDogger
12-14-2012, 09:21 PM
4 - Hunting and Self-Protection aren't the only reason to own guns nor should they be.

Please elaborate. JD

MooseGooser
12-14-2012, 09:23 PM
And if you SNOPES the transcript of Mr Scott,, It prooved to me without doubt,,, that the so called Unbiased SNOPES guys do INDEED have an agenda,, just like everyone else!!

I know what the man said,,, and I know for FACT the reason it was brushed under the carpet..

Dustin D
12-14-2012, 09:34 PM
Please elaborate. JD

Sport Shooting. More ammo is sold to Sport Shooters than Hunters considering they shoot three times as much in a year.

dixidawg
12-14-2012, 09:41 PM
Please elaborate. JD


How about because I want to?

MooseGooser
12-14-2012, 09:49 PM
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by JDogger http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1044666#post1044666)
Please elaborate. JD




Protection against Evil,, Oppression, and tiereny are the reason.......


Not necessarily protection from your neighbor, or Kook on the street either...

Gooser

HPL
12-14-2012, 09:54 PM
I am so sick of clearly disturbed people perpetrating these spectacular killings. I hate to say it, but my first thought was, "great, more ammo for the anti gun fanatics". Anyone here conversant with the gun laws in Ct? Is it a "may issue" or "must issue" state, or is CC banned entirely?

dixidawg
12-14-2012, 09:57 PM
I don't know of the CT specifics, but the shooter was 20 years old. Fed law prohibits anyone under 21 from purchasing handguns. He reportedly used 2 handguns that belonged to his mother.

JDogger
12-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Sport Shooting. More ammo is sold to Sport Shooters than Hunters considering they shoot three times as much in a year.

I'm not sure where you come up with your figures. Yes I buy and shoot more clay target ammo than I do hunting steel. I occasionally shoot some trap, skeet and three-stand and sporting clays. I shoot a 30-06 deer rifle, w/ scope. I zero it in once a year when I draw an elk or deer tag. I endevour to make one clean shot with a bolt action rifle. I do not need a semi to make a clean kill.
Tell me, Dustin? Can you say PTSD?

Franco
12-14-2012, 10:06 PM
And if you SNOPES the transcript of Mr Scott,, It prooved to me without doubt,,, that the so called Unbiased SNOPES guys do INDEED have an agenda,, just like everyone else!!

I know what the man said,,, and I know for FACT the reason it was brushed under the carpet..

With this tragedy of today, the last thing we need is someone spreading misinformation.

Urban Legend, Fact Check and Snopes all report the same thing.

Darrell Scott's speech was covered nationally by the Scripps Howard and Associated Press wire services, not to mention in daily newspapers across the U.S., such as the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the St. Paul Pioneer Press, the Washington Times, the Boston Globe, the Arizona Republic, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the Chicago Sun-Times ... well, you get the idea.

....

The parents of other victims testifying at the Sub-committee had much different opinions as to the reason for the murders including that this was more an issue about mental health then gun control. That many parents/ single parents are incapable of identifying or dealing with Personality Disorders such as Bipolar and other mental diseases affecting their teenagers.

MooseGooser
12-14-2012, 10:26 PM
With this tragedy of today, the last thing we need is someone spreading misinformation.

Urban Legend, Fact Check and Snopes all report the same thing.

Darrell Scott's speech was covered nationally by the Scripps Howard and Associated Press wire services, not to mention in daily newspapers across the U.S., such as the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the St. Paul Pioneer Press, the Washington Times, the Boston Globe, the Arizona Republic, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the Chicago Sun-Times ... well, you get the idea.

....

The parents of other victims testifying at the Sub-committee had much different opinions as to the reason for the murders.


Untill you have PERSONALLY lived througha tradedy like this,,, You really have NO IDEA about Mis Information..

It is very surprising when Victims family members discussed thier views how quickly they were "labled"

My Son was very good friends with Rachel..

He walked past Kleiblod minutes before he started the rampage outside the school... One of hius friends was shot in the stairwell my son just came down to exit the school...

My son was in the process of finding his friend Isiaha Scholes to with him for lunch.
They had a Mis- communication,, or My son would have been in the library!! with him...

As I said ealier,,, many folks just dont know the pain this inflicts on a community. The mean things thats are said .
The very surprising viewpoints of parents in our school systems... I have had people look me in the eye and say quit whining and get over it!!........ I never will... never forgotten... You will never understand....
It really opened my eyes..

charly_t
12-14-2012, 10:29 PM
1 - Yes. Allow people to properly defend themselves EVERY WHERE and stop polarizing gun owners as idiot tin foil red necks.
2 - What makes you think background checks would have prevented this? He didn't go buy this gun from Academy and then commit the crime.
3 - What does Law Abiding Citizens taking training have to do with anything? This kid just killed almost 30 people WITHOUT training. The training I'd support is training the School Staff to be able to competently engage these wackos so they'll off themselves quicker rather than walking around shooting innocent people for 15 minutes before the cops show up or someone decides to do something. Most all these Active Shooters shoot themselves immediately after running out of ammo, being confronted or as soon as it looks like their plan is folding. Nothing spells Failed Plan like lead coming your way from an Armed Teacher! Texas has the right idea.
4 - Hunting and Self-Protection aren't the only reason to own guns nor should they be.

Good post, Dustin. I feel much like you do about this.

JDogger
12-14-2012, 10:37 PM
How about because I want to?

Well that was probably the excuse in CT today....JD

murral stark
12-14-2012, 11:13 PM
I have a favor to ask, as I sit here with tears in my eyes.

Can we please can the smart ass comments on this for at least 1 day?

For those with children, can you imagine anything worse?
There is no politics here, this is just plain awful......my heart hurts.

Let it be.


Thank you,

stan b

I agree 100% with that statement Stan. God Bless You Sir!!!

murral stark
12-14-2012, 11:17 PM
Untill you have PERSONALLY lived througha tradedy like this,,, You really have NO IDEA about Mis Information..

It is very surprising when Victims family members discussed thier views how quickly they were "labled"

My Son was very good friends with Rachel..

He walked past Kleiblod minutes before he started the rampage outside the school... One of hius friends was shot in the stairwell my son just came down to exit the school...

My son was in the process of finding his friend Isiaha Scholes to with him for lunch.
They had a Mis- communication,, or My son would have been in the library!! with him...

As I said ealier,,, many folks just dont know the pain this inflicts on a community. The mean things thats are said .
The very surprising viewpoints of parents in our school systems... I have had people look me in the eye and say quit whining and get over it!!........ I never will... never forgotten... You will never understand....
It really opened my eyes..

It makes a person reflect on the good things they have in their lives. Mr. Baker, I can understand where you are coming from, I almost lost my oldest daughter 2 days before her 2nd birthday in a car accident. She is now 24, and has given me 2 beuatiful grand babies.

MooseGooser
12-15-2012, 12:08 AM
I could go on for hours!!!

Its true,, its classless to politicise this event on the very day it happened...

I appologise.
I will truely pray for those people in that community...
Gooser

Mary Lynn Metras
12-15-2012, 12:14 AM
How would that have helped in today's tragedy?

our woefully defunded mental health care system

Same up here in Canada, beaurocrats and politicians have provided less money and many people out running around very mentally ill. Psychiatrists are at fault as well-releasing people before they should and with knowledge they could endanger others! They need to be properly hospitalized and cared for under supervision. That would make a big difference in who gets guns. There also has to be some way to run checks on these people so access to firearms is not allowed. Again we will hear cries to ban firearms. But the better thing to do is provide help to those who misuse before this type of incident occurs again. IMHO

Very sad day. My heart goes out to all those families and that town. Like I said before unbelievable!!!

Sue Kiefer
12-15-2012, 05:08 AM
Please give extra hugs today to your kids and please please pray for those families that have lost so much today.
I texted my daughter at school till she texted me back and made my ex stop in at my place of 2nd job so I could hug my 11 yr. old. and tell him how much I love him BECAUSE I CAN TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Can we please just give it a rest today and grieve for the families.
Sue

starjack
12-15-2012, 06:20 AM
I agree 100% with that statement Stan. God Bless You Sir!!!Now you get it from the other thread

road kill
12-15-2012, 07:42 AM
Does anyone ever wonder if the violence presented as common place thru the various media is at all culpable for the mindset of some of these people?

"The Walking Dead" is one of the top rated shows on TV right now.
Probably 20 to 50 "zombies" get their brains blown out per show.
Any of you looked at any of the video games kids are playing today??

How about some restriction on these vehicles depicting bloody, viscious violence as entertainment?

Just a thought.

More after me and Elvis whack some birds........oh, the delicious irony there!:cool:

zeus3925
12-15-2012, 08:33 AM
Does anyone ever wonder if the violence presented as common place thru the various media is at all culpable for the mindset of some of these people?

"The Walking Dead" is one of the top rated shows on TV right now.
Probably 20 to 50 "zombies" get their brains blown out per show.
Any of you looked at any of the video games kids are playing today??

How about some restriction on these vehicles depicting bloody, viscious violence as entertainment?

Just a thought.

More after me and Elvis whack some birds........oh, the delicious irony there!:cool:

I think you are right on there, Stan. We as a culture love to see the portrayal of violence. The entertainment industry knows how to cater to it.

gmhr1
12-15-2012, 08:56 AM
Have you ever watched these xbox games? you are the one with the gun, you do the shooting, all they do is sit all day and kill people. No wonder their mind snaps .

JS
12-15-2012, 09:08 AM
Does anyone ever wonder if the violence presented as common place thru the various media is at all culpable for the mindset of some of these people?

"The Walking Dead" is one of the top rated shows on TV right now.
Probably 20 to 50 "zombies" get their brains blown out per show.
Any of you looked at any of the video games kids are playing today??

How about some restriction on these vehicles depicting bloody, viscious violence as entertainment?

Just a thought.

More after me and Elvis whack some birds........oh, the delicious irony there!:cool:

The video games have troubled me for a long time. We refuse to by them for our grandkids for many reasons, including the affects some of the games may have on their perception of reality.

I am surely not a psychiatrist, and not even a practicing psychologist, but it IS my degree and I am aware of some of the earlier research into the topic. Some conclude there is no connection between violence in society and video games ... others disagree. I am SOUNDLY of the opinion that the desensitization, the competitive rush, and the addictive nature of some of these games leaves a definite impression on some minds. It does not show outwardly because it is not a conscious perception ... just a part of the conditioning of growing up. How many times after one of these incidents, are the ensuing comments something like, "What a shock. He always seemed like a normal kid".

One of the biggest problems is that it is no longer just kids ... it now includes the parents. A good many 30-somethings are addicted ... from THEIR childhood ... to these things too and see nothing potentially harmful in their impressionable young kids becoming addicted to them.

JS

Dan Storts
12-15-2012, 09:19 AM
I am so sick of clearly disturbed people perpetuating these spectacular killings. I hate to say it, but my first thought was, "great, more ammo for the anti gun fanatics". Anyone here conversant with the gun laws in Ct? Is it a "may issue" or "must issue" state, or is CC banned entirely?

Agreed this is horrible and tragic. However, it is the perfect opportunity for the politicians and the government as a hole to steel to more and more of our liberties.

firehouselabs
12-15-2012, 09:28 AM
Uhhhh, and who is buying the x-boxes, games, paying for the cable and satellite dishes, not setting boundaries, not involving their children in sports, church, or family functions? Really think that it is the kids' fault? If guns don't kill people, I really don't think that zombies kill them either....except for on t.v. If you haven't taught your child the difference between reality and fiction, right and wrong, and that doing wrong means serious and consistent repercussions and punishment, then I really don't think that we can blame ANYTHING other than ourselves.
Society today seems to think that children are more than a blessing, that they should be coddled, waited upon, spoon fed, pampered, and spoiled. That we as parents should be lenient with criticism and lavish with unearned praise. That everyone is a "winner" and deserves a prize. That it is a God given right for kids to get what they want, when they want it. That in order for us as parents to get the kid to like us, that we should grovel at their feet and try to buy their affection. We are told to "be their friend" so that they will confide in us when something is bothering them. Yeah. That really works! Kids choose their friends, and trust me, it isn't going to be someone 20+ yrs older- no true friend anyway, and those are the ones that they confide in.
Kids now a days are mentally stunted and unprepared with the reality of having to care for themselves when they graduate high school. They don't have a clue as far as being responsible with paying bills, saving money, EARNING money, buying their own clothing, washing it, eating properly, thinking ahead and making attainable goals for the future. They live in the NOW, and when that stops working for them, they either run back to mommy and daddy for emotional, monetary, and physical support, or they crash under the pressure of outsiders telling them that they are the losers that they are. Because that is exactly what the kids in their late teens and early to mid twenties are now a days. LOSERS. Harsh? Yes. If you cannot function within society on a basic level, then that is what you are.
So, congratulations to the folks producing these losers of society. You have really "paid it forward" with how you have created the monsters that are plaguing society today as they kill other children that seem to be "happier" than they feel.

gmhr1
12-15-2012, 09:39 AM
Stand in line at a walmart especially at this time of the year and look at the video games they are buying. Thank God I only had one child and she is all grown up, I would not want to raise her in these times. Parents today do not have time for their kids its easier to sit them in front of a tv or a video game and let them do what they want. I dont see parents being parents they all want to be their "friend"

shawninthesticks
12-15-2012, 10:26 AM
There are three kinds of people in this world: sheep, wolves, and sheep dogs." We all need to be those sheep dogs watching over each other.

Violence in video games...no one remembers Elmer Fudd shooting Daffy duck in the beak ? Dont use excuses like video games as a crutch for bad parenting. If the parents are to lazy to instill proper ethics and COMMON SENSE in their kids then they are surely to lazy to take the time to understand that it is their responsibility to shape and mold our youth into upstanding citizens.

Some people ,just like dogs should not reproduce, bad breedings = unstable offspring. Humans are not special in mother nature,we are just to self-centered to admit that we are not perfect.

Before modern day safety training/equipment was being used,if someone did not have common sense and good judgement they were likely to not make it to breeding age, survival of the fittest is no longer, due to the "advancement "in keeping everyone safe.

As I typed the above my 9 year old son was getting his things ready to go to Grandpa's house for the day but was caring his video game with him and not focusing on the task of getting his things ready... he lost his privileges until 2013,yes even with yesterdays tragedy all I want to due is hug and protect my children ,but I have a full time responsibility to be a parent even if that means temporarily upsetting him.

Video games ,guns ,car's, all objects that we as humans have created,then when these objects are used for evil we want to blame the object...remember ,when you are pointing your finger at someone/thing else there are 3 more fingers pointing back at you.

And piss on every politicial who uses this as a "tool" for anti-gun control.

God bless the children /adults who lost their lives yesterday.

JS
12-15-2012, 11:17 AM
Uhhhh, and who is buying the x-boxes, games, paying for the cable and satellite dishes, not setting boundaries, not involving their children in sports, church, or family functions? Really think that it is the kids' fault? If guns don't kill people, I really don't think that zombies kill them either....except for on t.v. If you haven't taught your child the difference between reality and fiction, right and wrong, and that doing wrong means serious and consistent repercussions and punishment, then I really don't think that we can blame ANYTHING other than ourselves.
Society today seems to think that children are more than a blessing, that they should be coddled, waited upon, spoon fed, pampered, and spoiled. That we as parents should be lenient with criticism and lavish with unearned praise. That everyone is a "winner" and deserves a prize. That it is a God given right for kids to get what they want, when they want it. That in order for us as parents to get the kid to like us, that we should grovel at their feet and try to buy their affection. We are told to "be their friend" so that they will confide in us when something is bothering them. Yeah. That really works! Kids choose their friends, and trust me, it isn't going to be someone 20+ yrs older- no true friend anyway, and those are the ones that they confide in.
Kids now a days are mentally stunted and unprepared with the reality of having to care for themselves when they graduate high school. They don't have a clue as far as being responsible with paying bills, saving money, EARNING money, buying their own clothing, washing it, eating properly, thinking ahead and making attainable goals for the future. They live in the NOW, and when that stops working for them, they either run back to mommy and daddy for emotional, monetary, and physical support, or they crash under the pressure of outsiders telling them that they are the losers that they are. Because that is exactly what the kids in their late teens and early to mid twenties are now a days. LOSERS. Harsh? Yes. If you cannot function within society on a basic level, then that is what you are.
So, congratulations to the folks producing these losers of society. You have really "paid it forward" with how you have created the monsters that are plaguing society today as they kill other children that seem to be "happier" than they feel.

I didn't intend to start a rant. Although you make some broad generalizations, I agree with most of what I think you are trying to say.

The fact remains that IF you accept the premise that some of these games may have a dangerous impact on some people, and IF we (parents and society in general) fail to police ourselves, then censorship WILL be at least part of the solution. Some restrictions already exist but not strict enough, IMO.

Sadly, I believe this same fact of life applies gun control. As Buzz remarked, every time one of these incidents happens, the frustration mounts and the idea of controlling guns gains a little more credibility with more and more citizens. And citizens put pressure on legislators. Effective or not, it is inevitable.

I don't believe there is a conceivable gun law that could possibly prevent all the gun violence. There are probably some crimes of passion that may have not occurred, had not a gun been lying close at hand. But criminals will always be able to find a gun.

Registration MAY aid the cops in tracking down a murderer after the fact, and for that reason MAY be worth a try. But it would do nothing in the way of prevention.

Nor do I believe tougher punishment would make much difference. Criminals don't plan on getting caught.

No single answer and no single solution.

JS

JS
12-15-2012, 11:20 AM
.......

Violence in video games...no one remembers Elmer Fudd shooting Daffy duck in the beak ?

.......



Not at all the same. It's interactive. Think about it.

JS

shawninthesticks
12-15-2012, 11:21 AM
Cocaine and heroin are illegal , we all see how that has worked out...

gmhr1
12-15-2012, 11:22 AM
The news did an interview with a police detective, he said of all the murders he has investigated only one was with a "registered" gun. You can take the guns out of law abiding citizens but the bad guys will always get one. You will only make the rest of us sitting ducks.

Thank you for teaching your kids to respect others you dont see much of that today . Kids think they have a right to be rude and take whatever they want. They do not show respect and the parents that I see do not expect it, they are like a person trying to control an out of control dog, just alot of yelling.

shawninthesticks
12-15-2012, 11:24 AM
Not at all the same. It's interactive. Think about it.

JS

So the original Nintendo game Duck Hunt made me a duck hunter?

shawninthesticks
12-15-2012, 11:28 AM
[QUOTE=FinnLandR;1044756]Shawn, you have to admit that Elmer and Daffy are a far cry from any of the first-person shooter games out today, or Grand Theft Auto version x; apples and oranges....

I do agree, however, that a lot of the "parents" today aren't really parents.

I hope that I am teaching my kids right from wrong, both criminally and morally, but we never know how we have truly done until they have lived their whole lives.

We don't have cable or a dish. We have video games, but the most violent ones are Lego StarWars, Lego Batman, and Cabela's Dangerous Hunts. The kids are in Taekwondo, play sports, and are in Cub Scouts. We play board games, play catch, or HORSE, or pile on dad when he has the football. Both have run Tonka (or he ran them) in a Junior Handler "stake" at our HRC test.

The older one has been through hunter safety, and knows Dad's second rule of firearms, Do Not point any gun at anything or anyone you do not intend to kill or destroy. He also knows the first, do not touch unless mom or dad is present. (Not that he can get to them, anyway, only I know the combination.). When the younger one is old enough, he will go through hunter safety, too. We already work on the rules.

I have tried, and my wife has tried, to raise our kids to be respectful, decent, humans. I hope we succeed.

My prayers go out to all whose lives have been touched by the evil that happened yesterday.[/QUO



Yes,maybe a pour example, but my point was that violence has been around for about all living people on TV today,that doesnt justify blaming video games for parents not teaching reality compared to video games.

JS
12-15-2012, 11:31 AM
Cocaine and heroin are illegal , we all see how that has worked out...

Are you arguing the games aren't a possible cause or that regulations won't work? Your original post indicated the former.

JS

shawninthesticks
12-15-2012, 11:55 AM
Are you arguing the games aren't a possible cause or that regulations won't work? Your original post indicated the former.

JS

No, I'm arguing that common sense is not very common anymore,and that just because something is illegal it isnt going to stop someone from carrying out illegal activities. In the minds of criminals some silly law isnt going to stop them from carrying out criminal activities. Just like yesterdays act of violence the news reports that the killer tried to buy guns over the counter earlier in the week ,but was denied...did it stop him? If he knew that he would meet some kind of resistant at the school that could have possibly detoured this act of violence. (I am not sold on the idea of teachers carrying guns)

It is a mental decision if someone can not distinguish the difference between reality and video games especially in youth-that is the parents job to teach. Out of the studies of video games you posted earlier what was the family life like for the kids that showed they couldnt distinguish the difference? Was The study based only on video games or did it also study each persons back ground ? I do agree that they in no way aid in preventing violence ,but are not likely to be the soul cause of violence in todays younger generations.

You hear "I would hate to grow up in todays society" ,how many generations has that term been used? All to often parents are looking over their shoulders and are afraid to reprimand their kids because of social services saying "you cant spank your kids" THAT is a regulation that has ill effects on the raising of our children IMO.


There are hundreds if not thousands of POSSIBLE causes for everything.

Dustin D
12-15-2012, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure where you come up with your figures. Yes I buy and shoot more clay target ammo than I do hunting steel. I occasionally shoot some trap, skeet and three-stand and sporting clays. I shoot a 30-06 deer rifle, w/ scope. I zero it in once a year when I draw an elk or deer tag. I endevour to make one clean shot with a bolt action rifle. I do not need a semi to make a clean kill.
Tell me, Dustin? Can you say PTSD?

So no one else should either?

What's this about PTSD?

Don't be a liberal. Just because you can't find a good enough reason for yourself doesn't mean there isn't one.

The two mindsets always become clear relatively quickly around these times.

If a Conservative doesn't like or want a gun, he doesn't buy one.
If a Liberal doesn't like or want a gun, he thinks no one else should either.

gmhr1
12-15-2012, 12:16 PM
In Ca now we have a case of a dad pulling a a belt in his backyard and swatting his kid, his neighbor filmed it and now the guy has lost his son and going to trial. If you raise your hand to your child you have to be afraid of who will see it, or will your own kid call the cops on you. Im so sick of hearing a mom asking her kid over and over again "do you want a spanking" You see these frustrated moms everyday with the screaming kid and she cannot do anything. Kids today rule.
Schools are going to have to get serious about protecting the students and staff, The school my daughter teaches at has FULL TIME SECURITY AND AN ARMED CITY POLICE OFFICER. Schools need to hire an ARMED police officer at the door with a metal detector it may not stop all the nuts but it will slow them down.

charly_t
12-15-2012, 12:27 PM
Uhhhh, and who is buying the x-boxes, games, paying for the cable and satellite dishes, not setting boundaries, not involving their children in sports, church, or family functions? Really think that it is the kids' fault? If guns don't kill people, I really don't think that zombies kill them either....except for on t.v. If you haven't taught your child the difference between reality and fiction, right and wrong, and that doing wrong means serious and consistent repercussions and punishment, then I really don't think that we can blame ANYTHING other than ourselves.
Society today seems to think that children are more than a blessing, that they should be coddled, waited upon, spoon fed, pampered, and spoiled. That we as parents should be lenient with criticism and lavish with unearned praise. That everyone is a "winner" and deserves a prize. That it is a God given right for kids to get what they want, when they want it. That in order for us as parents to get the kid to like us, that we should grovel at their feet and try to buy their affection. We are told to "be their friend" so that they will confide in us when something is bothering them. Yeah. That really works! Kids choose their friends, and trust me, it isn't going to be someone 20+ yrs older- no true friend anyway, and those are the ones that they confide in.
Kids now a days are mentally stunted and unprepared with the reality of having to care for themselves when they graduate high school. They don't have a clue as far as being responsible with paying bills, saving money, EARNING money, buying their own clothing, washing it, eating properly, thinking ahead and making attainable goals for the future. They live in the NOW, and when that stops working for them, they either run back to mommy and daddy for emotional, monetary, and physical support, or they crash under the pressure of outsiders telling them that they are the losers that they are. Because that is exactly what the kids in their late teens and early to mid twenties are now a days. LOSERS. Harsh? Yes. If you cannot function within society on a basic level, then that is what you are.
So, congratulations to the folks producing these losers of society. You have really "paid it forward" with how you have created the monsters that are plaguing society today as they kill other children that seem to be "happier" than they feel.

Yes !!!!!! great post.

JS
12-15-2012, 12:28 PM
.......

If a Conservative doesn't like or want a gun, he doesn't buy one.
If a Liberal doesn't like or want a gun, he thinks no one else should either.

And conservatives (almost) always need things to be black/white, either/or, yes/no, good/bad, ... :cool:

JS

charly_t
12-15-2012, 12:49 PM
.................................................. .................................................. .All to often parents are looking over their shoulders and are afraid to reprimand their kids because of social services saying "you cant spank your kids" THAT is a regulation that has ill effects on the raising of our children IMO.

.................

This is one of the causes of bad kids today. Probably one of the worst.

Mary Lynn Metras
12-15-2012, 12:51 PM
Does anyone ever wonder if the violence presented as common place thru the various media is at all culpable for the mindset of some of these people?

"The Walking Dead" is one of the top rated shows on TV right now.
Probably 20 to 50 "zombies" get their brains blown out per show.
Any of you looked at any of the video games kids are playing today??

How about some restriction on these vehicles depicting bloody, viscious violence as entertainment?

Just a thought.

More after me and Elvis whack some birds........oh, the delicious irony there!:cool:

Agree as well!

Dan Storts
12-15-2012, 01:15 PM
This is one of the causes of bad kids today. Probably one of the worst.

Capitol punishment has been replaced with appeal after appeal and 50 years to life in prison. Corporal punishment in schools has been replaced with Ratilin and Prozac. Now there are a lot of cases where medication is needed but also a number cases it is abused for the convenience of the teacher/parent. I guarantee my teacher would have suggested it my my parents if I was being raised during this time.

charly_t
12-15-2012, 01:27 PM
Capitol punishment has been replaced with appeal after appeal and 50 years to life in prison. Corporal punishment in schools has been replaced with Ratilin and Prozac. Now there are a lot of cases where medication is needed but also a number cases it is abused for the convenience of the teacher/parent. I guarantee my teacher would have suggested it my my parents if I was being raised during this time.

A relative was visiting at my folks' home. She was babysitting another relative's child and had him with her. The child got mad and threw a fit. Dad said something to the lady about the child's behavior. The relative/baby sitter said "oh, but he is a nervous child". My dad said, "when I was growing up they had a cure for that".

cotts135
12-15-2012, 01:54 PM
[QUOTE=FinnLandR;1044756]Shawn, you have to admit that Elmer and Daffy are a far cry from any of the first-person shooter games out today, or Grand Theft Auto version x; apples and oranges....

I do agree, however, that a lot of the "parents" today aren't really parents.

I hope that I am teaching my kids right from wrong, both criminally and morally, but we never know how we have truly done until they have lived their whole lives.

We don't have cable or a dish. We have video games, but the most violent ones are Lego StarWars, Lego Batman, and Cabela's Dangerous Hunts. The kids are in Taekwondo, play sports, and are in Cub Scouts. We play board games, play catch, or HORSE, or pile on dad when he has the football. Both have run Tonka (or he ran them) in a Junior Handler "stake" at our HRC test.

The older one has been through hunter safety, and knows Dad's second rule of firearms, Do Not point any gun at anything or anyone you do not intend to kill or destroy. He also knows the first, do not touch unless mom or dad is present. (Not that he can get to them, anyway, only I know the combination.). When the younger one is old enough, he will go through hunter safety, too. We already work on the rules.

I have tried, and my wife has tried, to raise our kids to be respectful, decent, humans. I hope we succeed.

My prayers go out to all whose lives have been touched by the evil that happened yesterday.[/QUO



Yes,maybe a pour example, but my point was that violence has been around for about all living people on TV today,that doesnt justify blaming video games for parents not teaching reality compared to video games.


Like yourself I have been around guns my whole life and when I read your post I was glad that you teach your children to have a healthy respect about firearms. Thinking about your first rule though I just imagined kids being kids and maybe there at a friends house and those parents are not as vigilant as you are and their is access to a gun. I am not here to tell you how to raise your kids but the first rule should always be treat any gun as loaded until it is absolutely proven that it is not. Accidental shootings are almost always because the handler thought the gun was unloaded. It is really hard to go wrong following this rule.

Gerry Clinchy
12-15-2012, 03:08 PM
And conservatives (almost) always need things to be black/white, either/or, yes/no, good/bad, ... :cool:

JS
I would replace "almost always" with "some" ... and some liberals are the same.

HPL
12-15-2012, 04:21 PM
In Ca now we have a case of a dad pulling a a belt in his backyard and swatting his kid, his neighbor filmed it and now the guy has lost his son and going to trial. If you raise your hand to your child you have to be afraid of who will see it, or will your own kid call the cops on you. Im so sick of hearing a mom asking her kid over and over again "do you want a spanking" You see these frustrated moms everyday with the screaming kid and she cannot do anything. Kids today rule.
Schools are going to have to get serious about protecting the students and staff, my daughters school has full time security and a city police officer . Schools need to hire someone at the door with a metal detector it may not stop all the nuts but it will slow them down.

I don't have kids, so it's a bit easy for me to talk, but several years ago I was standing in line at the local grocery store and the kid behind me was bouncing one of those rubber balls that all the stores seem to sell these days (air filled about the size of a soccer ball). He mom kept telling him to stop. He kept bouncing the ball. After she had said "Johnny (or whatever his name was) stop" about ten or fifteen times, I couldn't take it any longer so I turned around, caught the ball on the way up, put it on top of the refrigerator case by the check stand, and said "see, that wasn't so hard, was it?". Really wanted to smack both of them.

There is a prominent family here in town with more than seven kids my generation. Their dad ruled with a loving but iron hand. They tell two stories that are somewhat on point here. When one of the kids was about three or four he kept cutting up in church. Finally dad had had enough. This was before AC (and definitely before PC). Dad grabs problem child, marches him all the way up the aisle (they sat on front row), out the door, and then gave him a licken (which all could hear through open windows), then marched him back in and sat him (probably a pretty uncomfortable proposition for the offender) back down. I believe that they said that it took two trips. Well now the ones my generation are all grown up with kids of their own. Several years ago one of them was living in major liberal city and called home complaining that his daughter was acting up in church. Dad (now grandpa) says "she needs a good licken". Son replies "If I am seen striking my child, I will go to jail". Grandpa says "I've been to that church and there is an elevator that goes down to basement, spank her on the way down, calm her down in basement, threaten her on the way back up". Well, grandpa gets a call a couple of weeks later and apparently two trips is the magic number in that family. Every one of the kids my generation is a contributing member of society, and I bet the grandkids will be movers and shakers too.

huntinman
12-15-2012, 04:31 PM
I don't have kids, so it's a bit easy for me to talk, but several years ago I was standing in line at the local grocery store and the kid behind me was bouncing one of those rubber balls that all the stores seem to sell these days (air filled about the size of a soccer ball). He mom kept telling him to stop. He kept bouncing the ball. After she had said "Johnny (or whatever his name was) stop" about ten or fifteen times, I couldn't take it any longer so I turned around, caught the ball on the way up, put it on top of the refrigerator case by the check stand, and said "see, that wasn't so hard, was it?". Really wanted to smack both of them.

There is a prominent family here in town with more than seven kids my generation. Their dad ruled with a loving but iron hand. They tell two stories that are somewhat on point here. When one of the kids was about three or four he kept cutting up in church. Finally dad had had enough. This was before AC (and definitely before PC). Dad grabs problem child, marches him all the way up the aisle (they sat on front row), out the door, and then gave him a licken (which all could hear through open windows), then marched him back in and sat him (probably a pretty uncomfortable proposition for the offender) back down. I believe that they said that it took two trips. Well now the ones my generation are all grown up with kids of their own. Several years ago one of them was living in major liberal city and called home complaining that his daughter was acting up in church. Dad (now grandpa) says "she needs a good licken". Son replies "If I am seen striking my child, I will go to jail". Grandpa says "I've been to that church and there is an elevator that goes down to basement, spank her on the way down, calm her down in basement, threaten her on the way back up". Well, grandpa gets a call a couple of weeks later and apparently two trips is the magic number in that family. Every one of the kids my generation is a contributing member of society, and I bet the grandkids will be movers and shakers too.

Priceless... great story...

HPL
12-15-2012, 04:44 PM
They live in the NOW, and when that stops working for them, they either run back to mommy and daddy for emotional, monetary, and physical support, or they crash under the pressure of outsiders telling them that they are the losers that they are. Because that is exactly what the kids in their late teens and early to mid twenties are now a days. LOSERS. Harsh? Yes. If you cannot function within society on a basic level, then that is what you are.
So, congratulations to the folks producing these losers of society. You have really "paid it forward" with how you have created the monsters that are plaguing society today as they kill other children that seem to be "happier" than they feel.


Despair not, I say! Yesterday I was blissfully unaware of this tragedy until I got home around 9:00 PM. I spent yesterday afternoon photographing 22 young men and women becoming the United States' newest winged warriors as they received their wings of gold in front of their family members and friends. These young people, during a time of armed conflict, have answered the call, stepped up, and said "send me, I'll go". They will be flying P3-Orions patrolling the seas where our nations interests lie, they will be flying C130 Hercs and V22-Ospreys into hot zones delivering troops and supplies to support their brethren on the ground. They will be going into harms way, and they ALL volunteered. All is not lost.

road kill
12-15-2012, 04:57 PM
And conservatives (almost) always need things to be black/white, either/or, yes/no, good/bad, ... :cool:

JS
That's because the "grey" area is where all the trouble is................

charly_t
12-15-2012, 06:50 PM
That's because the "grey" area is where all the trouble is................

That sure applies to a lot of things in life. :-)

JS
12-15-2012, 06:51 PM
That's because the "grey" area is where all the trouble is................

Check! :cool:

JS

charly_t
12-15-2012, 07:14 PM
We may have had a copy-cat threat in Bartlesville OK yesterday. Some 18 year old decided to ask someone to help him with something along the lines of getting a bunch of kids together and shooting them.


P.S. http://bartlesvilleradio.com/pages/news/45042012/school-shooting-threat

Mary Lynn Metras
12-15-2012, 07:15 PM
Uhhhh, and who is buying the x-boxes, games, paying for the cable and satellite dishes, not setting boundaries, not involving their children in sports, church, or family functions? Really think that it is the kids' fault? If guns don't kill people, I really don't think that zombies kill them either....except for on t.v. If you haven't taught your child the difference between reality and fiction, right and wrong, and that doing wrong means serious and consistent repercussions and punishment, then I really don't think that we can blame ANYTHING other than ourselves.
Society today seems to think that children are more than a blessing, that they should be coddled, waited upon, spoon fed, pampered, and spoiled. That we as parents should be lenient with criticism and lavish with unearned praise. That everyone is a "winner" and deserves a prize. That it is a God given right for kids to get what they want, when they want it. That in order for us as parents to get the kid to like us, that we should grovel at their feet and try to buy their affection. We are told to "be their friend" so that they will confide in us when something is bothering them. Yeah. That really works! Kids choose their friends, and trust me, it isn't going to be someone 20+ yrs older- no true friend anyway, and those are the ones that they confide in.
Kids now a days are mentally stunted and unprepared with the reality of having to care for themselves when they graduate high school. They don't have a clue as far as being responsible with paying bills, saving money, EARNING money, buying their own clothing, washing it, eating properly, thinking ahead and making attainable goals for the future. They live in the NOW, and when that stops working for them, they either run back to mommy and daddy for emotional, monetary, and physical support, or they crash under the pressure of outsiders telling them that they are the losers that they are. Because that is exactly what the kids in their late teens and early to mid twenties are now a days. LOSERS. Harsh? Yes. If you cannot function within society on a basic level, then that is what you are.
So, congratulations to the folks producing these losers of society. You have really "paid it forward" with how you have created the monsters that are plaguing society today as they kill other children that seem to be "happier" than they feel.

Hey really good synopsis of the way it truly is with kids today!! Just read this again. Good post!!

In Canada our Conservative government got rid of the long gun registration:). Police liked the registration and I can understand why. But the long gun is not the choice weapon to kill. Maybe a handgun or a knife and these are probably easier to conceal. Hopefully our politicians and beaurocrats on both sides of the border don't go off the deep end on this and do something sensible. Might be too much to ask!

Marvin S
12-15-2012, 07:22 PM
I've read every one's comments & for the most part agree - except for what will be posted.

My son & I had a discussion about this! It's interesting to get the perspective of someone you value who is raising a family, but also remembers what their parents did & values that. When we were raising our children drugs, earrings & long hair were the rage, but not in our house. They did not have to go to college but 3 of them did on their dime, & they remember that well while appreciating the thought process behind it.

The shooters have made a habit of going to advertised "Gun Free Zones". Have been for some time, in case anyone missed that. So how do you stop that - ?????????? IMO you allow responsible citizens CC privileges. That's not very hard - does anyone think a shooter is going where he may get shot at? As for the onsite patrol - a shooter will take them out 1st.

A few years back there was a shooter down in Tx? who started up in a crowded restaurant. Fortunately there were a couple of patrons who were legal packers who made that person into a good citizen :).

I do believe that anyone who is allowed the right to pack in "No Pack Zones" should have to do a reasonable training process. Beyond that, the fact that most are normal citizens should be background check enough.

I to, feel very sad for the parents. As I'm not on national TV my notes will not have to tell me to shed a fony tear. But things being done correctly do not make news :(.

murral stark
12-15-2012, 08:45 PM
"I to, feel very sad for the parents. As I'm not on national TV my notes will not have to tell me to shed a fony tear. But things being done correctly do not make news ." MarvinS

BRAVO SIERRA!!!!!

Cody Covey
12-15-2012, 09:59 PM
So you guys do realize that video games and movies are currently regulated and anything rate R or M cannot be bought or watched by a child without a parent?

Buzz
12-15-2012, 10:46 PM
Does anyone ever wonder if the violence presented as common place thru the various media is at all culpable for the mindset of some of these people?

"The Walking Dead" is one of the top rated shows on TV right now.
Probably 20 to 50 "zombies" get their brains blown out per show.
Any of you looked at any of the video games kids are playing today??

How about some restriction on these vehicles depicting bloody, viscious violence as entertainment?

Just a thought.

More after me and Elvis whack some birds........oh, the delicious irony there!:cool:

Some of the video games that people (some) let their kids play are seriously evil, I can't believe they aren't causing brain damage... They are not allowed in this house. We don't watch violence on our TV at home either, period. OK, I'm known to sneak in a little Goodfellas or something like that once in awhile. I told my wife long ago that our society is seriously F'ed up. We worry about a wardrobe malfunction a lot more than the kids watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Completely backward.

And then there is the ED medication ads on TV and radio. Really neat riding in my truck with a 13 year old daughter and hearing an ad on the radio - "look down, shocking." WTH??? I shouldn't have to deal with that.

Dustin D
12-16-2012, 12:04 AM
Well I don't know how evil they are but they do indeed desensitize them to violence.

I remember reading a back-story to a video I saw on LiveLeak.

A Cop shot an Armed bad guy in a Huddle House Parking lot. The Kids filming with their phones were saying things like "Whoa man he smoked that fool", "Damn son he went all rapid fire on that mother*****" etc etc.

Supposedly these kids(20's) were taking a break from an ALL NIGHT Online Gaming run they were having playing Call of Duty or something like that.

I remember thinking these kids aren't hardened veterans, they've just seen people/characters shoot other people characters 10,000 Times a Week playing video games. So it didn't shock them, they've seen it all before. Especially with the extremely high quality graphic content these gaming Platforms produce these days.

I don't know how much it effects them but it sure does desensitize and there's a reason our own Military is incorporating some of this video game type training.

Buzz
12-16-2012, 12:54 PM
Well I don't know how evil they are but they do indeed desensitize them to violence.


I remember thinking these kids aren't hardened veterans, they've just seen people/characters shoot other people characters 10,000 Times a Week playing video games. So it didn't shock them, they've seen it all before. Especially with the extremely high quality graphic content these gaming Platforms produce these days.

I don't know how much it effects them but it sure does desensitize and there's a reason our own Military is incorporating some of this video game type training.


When the situations & bodies blowing up are depicted in enough high quality graphic detail that they desensitize, I believe that's evil.

luvmylabs23139
12-16-2012, 02:24 PM
Or maybe part of it is how we as a country have decided that locking up the mentally ill is no longer acceptable. From what I've been hearing he should have been locked up in Fairfield Hills years age. Oh yeah, nevermind, the nuthouse was closed.

BonMallari
12-16-2012, 02:47 PM
Or maybe part of it is how we as a country have decided that locking up the mentally ill is no longer acceptable. From what I've been hearing he should have been locked up in Fairfield Hills years age. Oh yeah, nevermind, the nuthouse was closed.

You obviously have never dealt with having a family member or acquaintance in an institution or you wouldnt be so cavalier with your terminology...the "nuthouse" as you call it, is not a pretty place,I hope you never have to deal with a place like it, or at least educate yourself on the types of mental illnesses of the people that are there

Cody Covey
12-16-2012, 03:17 PM
The call wasn't that we should enforce regulation but that it should in fact be regulated. It already is. It is no different than when people say we need to regulate machine guns....they already are is my point. As for your second question I get carded more often for video games than I do when I buy alcohol.

luvmylabs23139
12-16-2012, 03:32 PM
You obviously have never dealt with having a family member or acquaintance in an institution or you wouldnt be so cavalier with your terminology...the "nuthouse" as you call it, is not a pretty place,I hope you never have to deal with a place like it, or at least educate yourself on the types of mental illnesses of the people that are there

Well look at it this way. If he had been locked up in Fairfield Hills (which is although now closed in Newtown CT) 26 inocent people including 20 1st graders in Newtown,CT would stiil be alive.
There are people who while they may not have yet committed a crime should truly not be walking the streets. I happen to exactly what Fairfiled Hills was and that is exactly where he belonged.

road kill
12-16-2012, 03:42 PM
Some of the video games that people (some) let their kids play are seriously evil, I can't believe they aren't causing brain damage... They are not allowed in this house. We don't watch violence on our TV at home either, period. OK, I'm known to sneak in a little Goodfellas or something like that once in awhile. I told my wife long ago that our society is seriously F'ed up. We worry about a wardrobe malfunction a lot more than the kids watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Completely backward.

And then there is the ED medication ads on TV and radio. Really neat riding in my truck with a 13 year old daughter and hearing an ad on the radio - "look down, shocking." WTH??? I shouldn't have to deal with that.
SHOCKING Buzz, we agree!!!!

Feels good doesn't it???


And I called for no legislation on games.
They are simply over the top in their depiction of graphic violence.
The small amount of fighting I saw left an indelible mark on my soul, FOREVER!!!!

I think about what I saw happen every day.
The a some here that can support that.

Watching it displayed every day certainly has an impact, that is undeniable.................

zeus3925
12-16-2012, 04:11 PM
Or maybe part of it is how we as a country have decided that locking up the mentally ill is no longer acceptable. From what I've been hearing he should have been locked up in Fairfield Hills years age. Oh yeah, nevermind, the nuthouse was closed.

I would echo Bon's statement. I worked as a number years as a social worker for people with mental disabilities and illnesses. It may surprise you but the level of violence among people with mental illness isn't any more prevalent among that population than the general population.

The system of state run mental sanitariums did not have a good reputation for treating their patients. Some of them were pretty nasty places with poorly trained staff and doctors.

Individuals that might commit this kind of crime are often hard to detect ahead of time. As of now, there is now no functional way of preventing someone like these mass shooters in effect.

Marvin S
12-16-2012, 04:39 PM
I would echo Bon's statement. I worked as a number years as a social worker for people with mental disabilities and illnesses. It may surprise you but the level of violence among people with mental illness isn't any more prevalent among that population than the general population.

The system of state run mental sanitariums did not have a good reputation for treating their patients. Some of them were pretty nasty places with poorly trained staff and doctors.

Individuals that might commit this kind of crime are often hard to detect ahead of time. As of now, there is now no functional way of preventing someone like these mass shooters in effect.

I would disagree with you - I believe concealed carry would be an effective deterrent - but I would agree with you that these folks would be hard to detect ahead of time - did his parents even know?

luvmylabs23139
12-16-2012, 05:16 PM
I would echo Bon's statement. I worked as a number years as a social worker for people with mental disabilities and illnesses. It may surprise you but the level of violence among people with mental illness isn't any more prevalent among that population than the general population.

The system of state run mental sanitariums did not have a good reputation for treating their patients. Some of them were pretty nasty places with poorly trained staff and doctors.

Individuals that might commit this kind of crime are often hard to detect ahead of time. As of now, there is now no functional way of preventing someone like these mass shooters in effect.

I never said everyone with a mental illness or disabilty should be locked up. I did say that there are certain people that should be whether for the safety of the public at large or their own.

Franco
12-16-2012, 05:49 PM
They don't lockup the mentally ill. They get stabilized and sent of their way. Only the most serve of cases have extended stay. As has been mentioned, it is almost impossible to determine what they might do.

More Conceal Carry by law abiding citizens and no more Gun Free Zones is the best solution I've heard so far.

luvmylabs23139
12-16-2012, 06:19 PM
This guy should have been on the extended stay plan!

huntinman
12-16-2012, 06:21 PM
Just like the wacko in AZ that shot the congresswoman and all the others... Lots of people knew he was a fruitcake, including his parent and the univerisity. No one did anything.

Dan Storts
12-16-2012, 06:23 PM
They don't lockup the mentally ill. They get stabilized and sent of their way. Only the most serve of cases have extended stay. As has been mentioned, it is almost impossible to determine what they might do.

More Conceal Carry by law abiding citizens and no more Gun Free Zones is the best solution I've heard so far.

This was also a shooting in the Clackmas Mall in Oregon last week. This is a interesting follow up to your CCW solution.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

murral stark
12-16-2012, 06:30 PM
They don't lockup the mentally ill. They get stabilized and sent of their way. Only the most serve of cases have extended stay. As has been mentioned, it is almost impossible to determine what they might do.

More Conceal Carry by law abiding citizens and no more Gun Free Zones is the best solution I've heard so far.

Absolutely. Although these types of people have a deathwish any way. But, armed citizens might have been able get him before he got these little kids and teachers.

luvmylabs23139
12-16-2012, 06:45 PM
Newtown high school should not be on my TV right now like this. It's suposed to be the place where I cheered for the Rebels against the Indians.

firehouselabs
12-16-2012, 06:57 PM
Anyone else wish the news people would get their "facts" straight before publishing/announcing them? The amount of erroneous and contradictory information regarding the shooting, not only as it was happening but now, two days later is extraordinary! First the shooter had an AK submachine gun, then that changed to two handguns with a rifle in the car, now the handguns seem to be taken out of the picture and the 233 rifle (they say that it was an assault rifle) was used for all of the deaths.

Makes you wonder what is "real" and what has/is fabricated for ratings, shock value, and what is just plain poor reporting!!!

Buzz
12-16-2012, 08:23 PM
Makes you wonder what is "real" and what has/is fabricated for ratings, shock value, and what is just plain poor reporting!!!


Apparently they are rewarded for being first regardless of what tripe they throw out there in that endeavor. Madness...

luvmylabs23139
12-16-2012, 08:27 PM
I'm actually amazed at how well both Newtown and CT state police were able to keep certain information under wraps until they were ready to annouce it. The death toll comes to mind.

Marvin S
12-16-2012, 09:54 PM
From an interviewee on 60 minutes "The school starts @ 0900 & goes into complete lockdown @ 0905. The shooter broke a window out & opened a door" - this has been in effect for 5 years - the interviewee works at the school. Does anyone besides me see any thing wrong in this scenario? I see plenty, specifically options that should have kept those children safe :confused:.

luvmylabs23139
12-16-2012, 10:02 PM
From an interviewee on 60 minutes "The school starts @ 0900 & goes into complete lockdown @ 0905. The shooter broke a window out & opened a door" - this has been in effect for 5 years - the interviewee works at the school. Does anyone besides me see any thing wrong in this scenario? I see plenty, specifically options that should have kept those children safe :confused:.

That description makes it sound like he tossed a rock thru a window reached thru and turned a knob.
NOT what happened. I guess now schools will need to install bulletproof glass all around.

mngundog
12-16-2012, 10:03 PM
They don't lockup the mentally ill. They get stabilized and sent of their way. Only the most serve of cases have extended stay. As has been mentioned, it is almost impossible to determine what they might do.

More Conceal Carry by law abiding citizens and no more Gun Free Zones is the best solution I've heard so far.
State by State, I worked with Hawaiian inmates, mentally ill inmates were treated pretty much the same as the rest of the inmate population, except the most extreme cases were put in their own unit, mentally retarded, schizophrenia, multiple personalities I've seen it all.

zeus3925
12-16-2012, 10:24 PM
Unfortunately, our legal system is not set up to act proactively. A suspicious character can walk back and forth past a bank , but, until he attempts a robbery there is little that law enforcement can do. Same for mental illness. There are a lot of folks out there that span the spectrum from being a bit odd to full blown crazy. Until the person becomes dangerous to themselves or others, there is not much than can be done legally. Any involuntary treatment option must past muster with the legal system. Even then, that option is subject to periodic review.

charly_t
12-16-2012, 10:53 PM
Just a few thoughts. In Oklahoma it is very difficult to get a crazy person commited as needed. I personally know of two women ( one in OK the other in another state ) who have been put on meds for their bad mental problems. Both hate taking their meds and quit taking them often. I don't see any easy solution for that problem. Another little problem is when you get things all lined out that the mentally ill person can fire the agency who takes care of them. Seen that one first hand. As a relative of a retarded person I can tell you it is heart breaking tryng to get the CORRECT kind of help. Well meaning people can wreck a whole lot of things. Then there are the people who refuse to admit that their family member does need help. There are no good answers as far as I can see. More than one side to this problem. I would not wish for anyone to get caught in the maze that is our current system.

BonMallari
12-17-2012, 08:14 AM
Anyone else wish the news people would get their "facts" straight before publishing/announcing them? The amount of erroneous and contradictory information regarding the shooting, not only as it was happening but now, two days later is extraordinary! First the shooter had an AK submachine gun, then that changed to two handguns with a rifle in the car, now the handguns seem to be taken out of the picture and the 233 rifle (they say that it was an assault rifle) was used for all of the deaths.

Makes you wonder what is "real" and what has/is fabricated for ratings, shock value, and what is just plain poor reporting!!!


No kidding, the media (Fox news included) couldnt wait to announce that he used a Glock, a Sig Sauer, and a Bushmaster 223.....I even heard one reporter use the description that the AR style weapon was "THE most powerful weapon in the world"...as if those brand name guns were something very evil

Its almost ghoulish how the media is salivating at covering this tragic event, even in a 24/7 news cycle it is non stop...war could break out in a part of the world and it wont bump this story off the news

road kill
12-17-2012, 08:31 AM
No kidding, the media (Fox news included) couldnt wait to announce that he used a Glock, a Sig Sauer, and a Bushmaster 223.....I even heard one reporter use the description that the AR style weapon was "THE most powerful weapon in the world"...as if those brand name guns were something very evil

Its almost ghoulish how the media is salivating at covering this tragic event, even in a 24/7 news cycle it is non stop...war could break out in a part of the world and it wont bump this story off the news

I have read on a few sources that he did not use the bushmaster, it was left in the car.

The Huffington Post reports he "Blasted his way in with a high powered rifle."

When did a .223 calber become "high powered?"

Is that literary license to sensationalize a point to the unknowing?:confused:

Pete
12-17-2012, 08:35 AM
Its almost ghoulish how the media is salivating at covering this tragic event, even in a 24/7 news cycle it is non stop...war could break out in a part of the world and it wont bump this story off the news

And to continue to replay the death and mornings ,,,over and over and over again manipulate the emotions of the american people. Lets just keep injecting the agony over and over. GUNS DO THIS,,,, I wonder if, some part Obama's executive orders can be implemented to rectify this situation. he kinda made reference to the presidents power to intercede in these situations in his speech in conneticut,,,,

caryalsobrook
12-17-2012, 09:05 AM
I have read on a few sources that he did not use the bushmaster, it was left in the car.

The Huffington Post reports he "Blasted his way in with a high powered rifle."

When did a .223 calber become "high powered?"

Is that literary license to sensationalize a point to the unknowing?:confused:

I listened to Howard Dean on CNN Business Squawk Box rant and rail how SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifles could spray bullets all over the place just by pulling the trigger. Some guy tried to correct him by saying that only one bullet was fired each time you pulled the trigger. Dean was having none of it and kept yelling how he knew what he was talking about. Go figure.:o

gmhr1
12-17-2012, 10:05 AM
The shooter shot out the front glass. I wonder why they didnt have a laminate on it. When my daughter bought her house the first thing we did was bullet proof all her windows . It wont stop them but it will slow them down, allowing more time for the cops to get there.
http://www.acesecuritylaminates.com/

Jason Glavich
12-17-2012, 12:23 PM
I always try and correct people on the idea of a few things the media gets wrong. Not saying anyone here said these things but they are often said and thought to be correct. They are just pet peeves of mine.
1st. Automatic weapons are not illegal.
2nd. An AR15 and a M16 are not automatic weapons. (M16 does have a burst feature though, still not full auto, except an original A1 first run)
3rd. A standard Glock 27,19 etc is not full auto nor isra paperwork. it an assault weapon regardless of magazine size.
4th. A revolver is a semi automatic weapon...
5th. Semi automatic means 1 trigger pull shoots 1 bullet, as opposed to full auto that shoots many bullets if you "hold" down the trigger.
6th. Stealing a weapon that was obtained legally is theft and the weapon was then considered not to be obtained legally.
7th. My last point, gun free buildings only work on honest people with no hostile intent.


On a side note, a concealed weapon should never be seen, therefore there is never a worry about getting caught with it where you aren't allowed to.
I am sure if someone brought a gun into a gun free zone and happened to stop a shooter the charges would be filed as soon as possible.......

Assault weapons have a very strict set of rules to be considered as such, remove 1 item and they are just a rifle with standard buying procedures. Buying an AR15 chambered in .22lr is just like buying a Mossberg .22lr. .223 in centerfire would make one of mine into an assault rifle and extra paper work. Words mean things and I wish reporters knew the meaning before they used them.

MooseGooser
12-17-2012, 07:27 PM
My Browning .22lr auto rifle is considered to be an Assault weapon.

It has the capability of holding 11 rounds from the factory.
1 in the Chamber ,,, 10 in the magazine.
It will fire a round each time you pulll the trigger..

It also "breaks down" and Packs very nicely!
It can go in a case that is smaller than a Pool cue case.

The design has been the same for decades.

They load through a hole in the stock..

Kids have "Plinked" with them for years.

Large capacity magazine regards:

Gooser

Marvin S
12-17-2012, 08:07 PM
My Browning .22lr auto rifle is considered to be an Assault weapon.

Gooser

I have one of those - older than you are probably - 1962 - $70 included 5 boxes of shells - great little plinking gun - used by ranges as very durable - mint condition - don't plink much anymore :). Also does shorts & longs - holds a bundle of the little guys

MooseGooser
12-17-2012, 11:34 PM
Marvin

Your gun is a baby compared to me!:):)

Jason Glavich
12-18-2012, 07:29 AM
My Browning .22lr auto rifle is considered to be an Assault weapon.

It has the capability of holding 11 rounds from the factory.
1 in the Chamber ,,, 10 in the magazine.
It will fire a round each time you pulll the trigger..

It also "breaks down" and Packs very nicely!
It can go in a case that is smaller than a Pool cue case.

The design has been the same for decades.

They load through a hole in the stock..

Kids have "Plinked" with them for years.

Large capacity magazine regards:

Gooser

The tube fed magazine is not detachable if it is the gun I am thinking about. Also most states do not consider any rimfire to be an assault weapon only centerfire. In addition the AWB was very specific in nature to the types of guns it banned. Also your 22 would have to have at least 2 of the following to be an assault weapon.
(1) A folding or telescoping stock,
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
(3) A bayonet mount,
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and
(5) A grenade launcher
And it also has to have a detachable magazine in addtion to 2 of the above 5.

The centerfire portion varies based on state, but it can be the dif between 2 and 3 ID rules.

Dustin D
12-18-2012, 08:05 AM
Your gun is a baby compared to me!

Are you sure? I notice a lot of this 'Age Throwing' around here, interesting.

MooseGooser
12-18-2012, 12:18 PM
The tube fed magazine is not detachable if it is the gun I am thinking about. Also most states do not consider any rimfire to be an assault weapon only centerfire. In addition the AWB was very specific in nature to the types of guns it banned. Also your 22 would have to have at least 2 of the following to be an assault weapon.
(1) A folding or telescoping stock,
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
(3) A bayonet mount,
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and
(5) A grenade launcher
And it also has to have a detachable magazine in addtion to 2 of the above 5.

The centerfire portion varies based on state, but it can be the dif between 2 and 3 ID rules.


Jason

Varies by state.

Here is Denver Colorado.

"State Restrictions on Magazines, Chemical Sprays and Stun Guns"
High Capacity Magazine Banned or Restricted 11/23/12
If state is not listed then higher capacity magazines are legal.
California Large Capacity Magazines
With limited exceptions, California law prohibits any person from manufacturing, importing into the state, keeping for sale, offering or exposing for sale, giving, or lending any large capacity magazine. Cal. Penal Code 12020(a)(2), (b). A "large capacity magazine" is defined as any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but does not include any .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device, any feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds, or any tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm. Section 12020(c)(25). California does not ban the possession of large capacity magazines.
Upon a showing of good cause, the California Department of Justice may issue permits for the possession, transportation, or sale of large capacity ammunition magazines between a licensed California firearms dealer and an out-of-state customer. Section 12079(a). This requirement applies for only the out-of-state importation and exportation of large capacity ammunition magazines, including the transportation of such magazines as necessary to complete a transfer to or from an out of state source. See Cal. Code Regs. tit. 11, 978.40.
Large capacity magazines may be manufactured for any federal, state, or local government or law enforcement agency, or for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties, whether on or off duty. Section 12020(b)(30). Large capacity magazines may also be purchased or loaned for the sole use as a motion picture, television or video prop. Section 12020(b)(31), (32)(A). Such magazines may also be resold to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations. Section 12020(b)(32)(C).
For additional large capacity ammunition magazine regulations, see Cal. Code Regs. tit. 11, 978.40-978.44.
Colorado – City of Denver High Capacity Ammunition Magazines
City of Denver Ordinances Sec. 38-130. - Assault weapons.
a. All semiautomatic action, centerfire rifles with a detachable magazine with a capacity of twenty-one (21) or more rounds.
b. All semiautomatic shotguns with a folding stock or a magazine capacity of more than six (6) rounds or both.


Specific magazine prohibited.
It shall be unlawful to carry, store or otherwise possess a magazine which will hold or may be modified to hold twenty-one (21) or more rounds.


There is a provision in the law if you are a non resident of Denver traveling through the area you can not be charged with breaking this ordinances.


I CAN load more than 21 .22 shorts in my Browning, including the one in the chamber, with vary easy modification.
I can also do this to the MAGAZINE of a Wichester model 1890 .22 pump.
Notice the Law doesnt specify centerfire, caliber, action, ect It Specifically describes MAGAZINES.
It doesnt define Magazine, weather it be tubular, detachable.

Jason Glavich
12-18-2012, 01:24 PM
Jason

Varies by state.

Here is Denver Colorado.

"State Restrictions on Magazines, Chemical Sprays and Stun Guns"
High Capacity Magazine Banned or Restricted 11/23/12
If state is not listed then higher capacity magazines are legal.
California Large Capacity Magazines
With limited exceptions, California law prohibits any person from manufacturing, importing into the state, keeping for sale, offering or exposing for sale, giving, or lending any large capacity magazine. Cal. Penal Code 12020(a)(2), (b). A "large capacity magazine" is defined as any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but does not include any .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device, any feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds, or any tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm. Section 12020(c)(25). California does not ban the possession of large capacity magazines.
Upon a showing of good cause, the California Department of Justice may issue permits for the possession, transportation, or sale of large capacity ammunition magazines between a licensed California firearms dealer and an out-of-state customer. Section 12079(a). This requirement applies for only the out-of-state importation and exportation of large capacity ammunition magazines, including the transportation of such magazines as necessary to complete a transfer to or from an out of state source. See Cal. Code Regs. tit. 11, 978.40.
Large capacity magazines may be manufactured for any federal, state, or local government or law enforcement agency, or for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties, whether on or off duty. Section 12020(b)(30). Large capacity magazines may also be purchased or loaned for the sole use as a motion picture, television or video prop. Section 12020(b)(31), (32)(A). Such magazines may also be resold to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations. Section 12020(b)(32)(C).
For additional large capacity ammunition magazine regulations, see Cal. Code Regs. tit. 11, 978.40-978.44.
Colorado – City of Denver High Capacity Ammunition Magazines
City of Denver Ordinances Sec. 38-130. - Assault weapons.
a. All semiautomatic action, centerfire rifles with a detachable magazine with a capacity of twenty-one (21) or more rounds.
b. All semiautomatic shotguns with a folding stock or a magazine capacity of more than six (6) rounds or both.


Specific magazine prohibited.
It shall be unlawful to carry, store or otherwise possess a magazine which will hold or may be modified to hold twenty-one (21) or more rounds.


There is a provision in the law if you are a non resident of Denver traveling through the area you can not be charged with breaking this ordinances.


I CAN load more than 21 .22 shorts in my Browning, including the one in the chamber, with vary easy modification.
I can also do this to the MAGAZINE of a Wichester model 1890 .22 pump.
Notice the Law doesnt specify centerfire, caliber, action, ect It Specifically describes MAGAZINES.
It doesnt define Magazine, weather it be tubular, detachable.


It does specify centerfire. I put it in bold and red. Also most of what was posted is for California, or did Colorado sign the same laws into the books?

MooseGooser
12-18-2012, 03:40 PM
Jason

I copied California by mistake as I copied Colorado

Colorado (denver)does indeed specify actions of both rifles and shotguns.(semiautomatic)
They do say center fire when talking about WEAPONS ,,,,,but the sentence I highlighted Specifically addresses MAGAZINES Specifically .

Marvin S
12-18-2012, 08:45 PM
As more info is slowly presented :( it has now been affirmed that the mother's income from alimony in 2011 was nearly $270,000.

BonMallari
12-18-2012, 09:06 PM
As more info is slowly presented :( it has now been affirmed that the mother's income from alimony in 2011 was nearly $270,000.

by the looks of the family residence, it doesnt look like the family was living in da hood,or slum conditions either

luvmylabs23139
12-18-2012, 09:30 PM
The father is a big GE exec.