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JDogger
12-17-2012, 07:45 PM
So who has the best ideas on gun control? There have been many put out there since CT.

Obviously something needs to be done.

I'll take some input for a while, then turn it into a poll. Let's give it 24 hours..
Your input on poll questions would be welcome. Let's make this a poll by consensus rather than a poll by my political outlook.
I'll start; Do nothing.

1. Do nothing.


2. So we have a few replies so far that seem to indicate that a well armed populace and a well armed school staff would have prevented the CT school shootings. Please make your arguements and these will be considered for choice # 2 in the forthcoming poll where any and all can express their views.
3. All the above, but the goverment is charged with the training and implementation of all training and qualification.
4.
and so forth, there is no limit on suggestions..
JD

Marvin S
12-17-2012, 08:00 PM
Eliminate Gun Free Zones but require reasonable advanced training to carry in said Zones -

The Portland CCW person chose not to fire because of bystanders but the shooter knew he was there -
A NY police group wounded several bystanders in a shootout ? so apparently civilians are responsible -

I'll let others plead their cause -

duckhunting84
12-17-2012, 08:06 PM
[QUOTE=Marvin S;1045544]Eliminate Gun Free Zones but require reasonable advanced training to carry in said Zones -

The Portland CCW person chose not to fire because of bystanders but the shooter knew he was there -
A NY police group wounded several bystanders in a shootout ? so apparently civilians are responsible -




I totally agree. I also say arm teacher, and give them the correct training.

I am curious to see what others have to say on the issue.

Al VanHoey
12-17-2012, 08:39 PM
Eliminate Gun Free Zones but require reasonable advanced training to carry in said Zones -

The Portland CCW person chose not to fire because of bystanders but the shooter knew he was there -
A NY police group wounded several bystanders in a shootout ? so apparently civilians are responsible -

I'll let others plead their cause -



Completely agree! No more "Gun Free Zones"!

Matt McKenzie
12-17-2012, 08:51 PM
First off, it isn't obvious to everyone that "something has to be done". But why is it that when a mentally ill person commits an atrocity we need to have a discussion about tools rather than a discussion about mental health?

huntinman
12-17-2012, 08:53 PM
First off, it isn't obvious to everyone that "something has to be done". But why is it that when a mentally ill person commits an atrocity we need to have a discussion about tools rather than a discussion about mental health?

Because we have a bunch of "tools" in Washington leading the discussion...

HPL
12-17-2012, 08:56 PM
So who has the best ideas on gun control? There have been many put out there since CT.

Obviously something needs to be done.

I'll take some input for a while, then turn it into a poll. Let's give it 24 hours..
Your input on poll questions would be welcome. Let's make this a poll by consensus rather than a poll by my political outlook.
I'll start; Do nothing.

1. Do nothing.
2.
3.
4.
and so forth, there is no limit.
JD

It's not obvious to me.

People have been killing people since before our species evolved. Chimps (probably our nearest primate relatives) are known to commit murder. Fact is that the VAST (can't think of a word to really portray the vastness) majority of guns in the US never harm anyone. It is really not about gun control, but about people control and I'm not sure how you accomplish that as we haven't been able to eliminate crime yet.

I do think that "gun free zones" may be a mistake. I also think that some training and education should be required to get a CC permit, but not to the extent that only a very select few would qualify.

HPL
12-17-2012, 09:04 PM
As bad as this was, children are still safer at school than in the family car, and sad to say than in many homes. You could probably have an incident like this every month and it still wouldn't come close to the number of children killed in car wrecks or by neglectful or malicious parents.

In the United States, an average of 6 children 0-14 years old were killed and 694 were injured every day in motor vehicle crashes during 2003.

Thats 180/month. You would have to have 243/month during the school year to equal what cars alone do.

Marvin S
12-17-2012, 10:33 PM
I totally agree. I also say arm teacher, and give them the correct training.

I am curious to see what others have to say on the issue.



I know a lot of teachers - they reflect a cross section of the populace - some are mental cases in & of themselves - so my thought would be more along the lines of those willing & able to pass muster including routine visitors - I personally believe the surprise element of not knowing where the push back will initiate is a prime deterrent - There are no secrets in a school system :).

Matt - I will not disagree that mental health is an issue within this issue, but that discussion could take forever - my only interest is boots on the ground ASAP. The children deserve that much. Marvin

JDogger
12-17-2012, 11:27 PM
So much time and words are spent here on PP criticizing teachers, yet now we want them to not only teach but to be armed guards as well. We voice oppostion to the Dept of Ed., but maybe now their role becomes clear..They are to become the guards for our children that we are unwilling to be ourselves.
We don't want to fund health care, including mental health care. Sometimes we reap what we sow. JD

charly_t
12-17-2012, 11:50 PM
First off, it isn't obvious to everyone that "something has to be done". But why is it that when a mentally ill person commits an atrocity we need to have a discussion about tools rather than a discussion about mental health?

Bingo ! People can't fix a problem that they won't admit is present in our country. Per Dr. Phil's ideas.

road kill
12-18-2012, 04:50 AM
I have given this much thought.

I beleive at this point we do nothing.
This is an horrible event, done by an evil person.

We want, due to human nature, to blame someone/something.

I don't beleive this kind of evil can be stopped.
I don't beleive anyone/anything is to blame.

It is unfortunate that the incremental secular progressives have pounced on this opportunity to try to disarm the citizenry, 1 increment at a time.
Make no mistake, they will get something out of this tragedy.
And we will never get it back!!!!

JMO

caryalsobrook
12-18-2012, 05:29 AM
So much time and words are spent here on PP criticizing teachers, yet now we want them to not only teach but to be armed guards as well. We voice oppostion to the Dept of Ed., but maybe now their role becomes clear..They are to become the guards for our children that we are unwilling to be ourselves.
We don't want to fund health care, including mental health care. Sometimes we reap what we sow. JD
I have to dissagree with almost all you say here. I would guess that all of us want our children to have a better chance than we had. I for one was determined that my child would have a choice as to where he went to school. Given the gov. policy, that required that I have a better income than most. Tell me of an incident involving a Charter school, a home schooled child, a school where teachers are required to have a consealed permit and carry or a guard at every door. I have no idea what is the best policy but i do know that given gov. control of schools with NO CHOICE of parents and NO OPPORTUNITY OF EDUCATORS to offer choices, there will be one and only one solution by the gov. You expect the Dept. of Education to solve the problem. Hell they created the problem. You expect the Dept. of Ed. guard our children? They were SUPPOSED th be the GUARDIANS of our children. They aren't, never have been and never will be.

Franco
12-18-2012, 06:31 AM
I posted this on the Hide Your Guns thread and in my opinion makes the most sense.

The Official stance of the Libertarian Party...

The Federal Gun Free Schools Zone Act prohibits carrying firearms on school grounds in most cases, effectively criminalizing the right to self-defense in places filled with the most vulnerable citizens. Without that federal prohibition, adults working at the school would have been free to defend themselves, very possibly saving the lives of many of the young children and adults who were slain in this horrific tragedy.

"We must stop blinding ourselves to the obvious: Most of these mass killings are happening at schools where self-defense is prohibited," said Carla Howell, executive director of the Libertarian Party. "Gun prohibition sets the stage for the slaughter of innocent children. We must repeal these anti-self-defense laws now to minimize the likelihood they will occur in the future and to the limit the damage done when they do."

.................................................. ..

Anyone else disappointed in the amount of Repubs that voiced their support for more gun laws yesterday?

dixidawg
12-18-2012, 07:12 AM
We provide all sorts of tools and training for most all other emergencies. Fire extinguishers. Defibrillators. CPR training. Heimlich training. The list goes on. Yet we deliberately remove the most effevtive tool that could end this type of situation.

Why?

This video might provide some insight to what goes through someone's mind who has been through this type of situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo3ybGWBQhA&feature=youtu.be

BonMallari
12-18-2012, 07:56 AM
I posted this on the Hide Your Guns thread and in my opinion makes the most sense.

The Official stance of the Libertarian Party...

The Federal Gun Free Schools Zone Act prohibits carrying firearms on school grounds in most cases, effectively criminalizing the right to self-defense in places filled with the most vulnerable citizens. Without that federal prohibition, adults working at the school would have been free to defend themselves, very possibly saving the lives of many of the young children and adults who were slain in this horrific tragedy.

"We must stop blinding ourselves to the obvious: Most of these mass killings are happening at schools where self-defense is prohibited," said Carla Howell, executive director of the Libertarian Party. "Gun prohibition sets the stage for the slaughter of innocent children. We must repeal these anti-self-defense laws now to minimize the likelihood they will occur in the future and to the limit the damage done when they do."

.................................................. ..

Anyone else disappointed in the amount of Repubs that voiced their support for more gun laws yesterday?

As I posted on another thread, IMO this is no longer a REP vs DEM issue....even though the Dem leadership is at the forefront of the charge....there is now a pro gun vs anti gun stance that knows no political boundary which makes perfect sense, because there are plenty of Dems that are gun loving, toting individuals and there are many Rep's that think that guns are unneccesary...Even many of the on air personalities on Fox showed their emotional anti gun stance

Trying to depict the Libertarian Party as the only one that is pro gun is somewhat disingenuous..The Party is pro gun because the issue deals with a liberty that they feel is being infringed...those from the other political parties arent looking at it thru one's civil liberty...they are looking at a gun as something if removed would somehow diminish certain times of crime and violence

Franco
12-18-2012, 08:10 AM
As I posted on another thread, IMO this is no longer a REP vs DEM issue....even though the Dem leadership is at the forefront of the charge....there is now a pro gun vs anti gun stance that knows no political boundary which makes perfect sense, because there are plenty of Dems that are gun loving, toting individuals and there are many Rep's that think that guns are unneccesary...Even many of the on air personalities on Fox showed their emotional anti gun stance

Trying to depict the Libertarian Party as the only one that is pro gun is somewhat disingenuous..The Party is pro gun because the issue deals with a liberty that they feel is being infringed...those from the other political parties arent looking at it thru one's civil liberty...they are looking at a gun as something if removed would somehow diminish certain times of crime and violence

But it does have a political boundry! As you pointed out the Libertarian Party's stance is for citizens to have the Right to defend themselves. Whereas, the other two parties have members that are more than willing to infringe on the Right.

setterpete
12-18-2012, 11:45 AM
So much time and words are spent here on PP criticizing teachers, yet now we want them to not only teach but to be armed guards as well. We voice oppostion to the Dept of Ed., but maybe now their role becomes clear..They are to become the guards for our children that we are unwilling to be ourselves.
We don't want to fund health care, including mental health care. Sometimes we reap what we sow. JD

You think the teachers will just become "armed guards"? How about allowing them to protect themselves first and foremost and just maybe they'll stop some whacko from killing someone else as well.

charly_t
12-18-2012, 03:22 PM
I think it would be good for some teachers to carry guns. The thing is they need to be able to keep their mind on the lesson and the kids. That's just my point of view as a volunteer at school in the past.

Gerry Clinchy
12-18-2012, 07:56 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/18/wanted-jason-bourne-as-gym-teacher-to-prevent-future-school-tragedies/

This is an opinion piece from Fox News, but I see some common sense in this ...


But protection is a national pastime as we put locks on our phones, our homes, our cars, our bank accounts, our computers.

It’s ironic that so many exalted opinion leaders in government and the media live in gated communities, sending their children to private schools, all the while lecturing the great unwashed to trust in a level of security they do not accept for their own families. Apparently guns are bad, unless protecting them and their loved ones.




Tears have been shed for the heroic teachers and school employees who gave their lives to protect children. I wonder if I am alone in wishing that one of them was armed and able to fight back?

If this horrible event happened in a movie, Jason Bourne, living undercover, would have been the school gym teacher, and when violence entered the school, he would have protected those children with all the skills and force necessary. And we all would have cheered.

And yet, politicians argue that the answer to armed maniacs is a disarmed, unprotected citizenry. Parents should trust others to stand in the gap for their beloved children.

It is not enough. Even with the best intentions, government can’t be everywhere. A right to bear arms just may be a need to bear arms – on some occasions and in some locations.

Our schools need better trained and equipped protectors, and our citizenry deserves the right to fight for the weak. It’s not that a discussion of gun laws is a bad thing. But it is not enough.

As Americans grapple with an increasingly dangerous world, let’s not pretend the answers are easy or that playing politics with children’s lives is acceptable.


Kristi Stone Hamrick is a media consultant.

luvmylabs23139
12-18-2012, 08:11 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/18/wanted-jason-bourne-as-gym-teacher-to-prevent-future-school-tragedies/

This is an opinion piece from Fox News, but I see some common sense in this ...

In many ways Newtown CT and Sandy Hook Elementary school is their gated community and private school.
It is a place where people did feel their children were safe. Maybe it's more like they are unwilling to accept that guns may be needed to protect children no matter where they live or go to school.

Marvin S
12-18-2012, 08:31 PM
As long as we're going to solve this issue with JD's poll, let's also see how much money we'll have to borrow from China to put each idea into effect. The state of WA has 300 public School districts, with 500 HS, 750 middle schools, 2000 elementary schools roughly. 1 patrol officer per school would equate to 3250 officers plus their support personnel, administrators for a state with 6 million people. A country with 300 milion people would then extrapolate to 50 times that or 162,500 patrol officers plus support personnel. At an average wage & bennies package of 90K or $14,625,000,000 per year.

Or it could done for free by eliminating gun free zones with less infringement of everyone's civil liberties, less jurisdictional disputes & faster.

Which way will the pol's choose?

JDogger
12-18-2012, 10:01 PM
As long as we're going to solve this issue with JD's poll, let's also see how much money we'll have to borrow from China to put each idea into effect. The state of WA has 300 public School districts, with 500 HS, 750 middle schools, 2000 elementary schools roughly. 1 patrol officer per school would equate to 3250 officers plus their support personnel, administrators for a state with 6 million people. A country with 300 milion people would then extrapolate to 50 times that or 162,500 patrol officers plus support personnel. At an average wage & bennies package of 90K or $14,625,000,000 per year.

Or it could done for free by eliminating gun free zones with less infringement of everyone's civil liberties, less jurisdictional disputes & faster.

Which way will the pol's choose?

So you vote for option # 4? JD

road kill
12-19-2012, 05:15 AM
As long as we're going to solve this issue with JD's poll, let's also see how much money we'll have to borrow from China to put each idea into effect. The state of WA has 300 public School districts, with 500 HS, 750 middle schools, 2000 elementary schools roughly. 1 patrol officer per school would equate to 3250 officers plus their support personnel, administrators for a state with 6 million people. A country with 300 milion people would then extrapolate to 50 times that or 162,500 patrol officers plus support personnel. At an average wage & bennies package of 90K or $14,625,000,000 per year.

Or it could done for free by eliminating gun free zones with less infringement of everyone's civil liberties, less jurisdictional disputes & faster.

Which way will the pol's choose?
Wouldn't cost taxpayers a dime on my idea.........