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MooseGooser
12-30-2012, 10:08 AM
Oaths!!!
When we go to court, we take an oath before testimony
As Follows:
'I swear (or the person taking the oath may promise) by Almighty God (or the person may name a god recognised by his or her religion) that the evidence I shall give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.'

If by deliberate, we do NOT tell the truth, or we lie, we can be in danger of serious prosecution.. The possibility of incarceration. We cannot lie under oath... A President was impeached for doing just that..
 
Before one of our elected officials is allowed to take office,, He/She is required to take the oath of Office..
As follows:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
 
What consequence does the person who is elected have to consider,, if they directly ignore this oath??
What do we as the electorate do to those who don’t honor their oath???

MooseGooser
12-30-2012, 10:26 AM
OATH KEEPERS: ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEY (http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html)


1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

gmhr1
12-30-2012, 02:33 PM
Obama plays by his own rules.

charly_t
12-30-2012, 03:15 PM
Obama plays by his own rules.

;-) , vbeg. Uummmmm are you sure he has any rules at all ? TIC

MooseGooser
12-30-2012, 07:29 PM
Where in this Oath of Office does it state a requirement for an allegience to a political party?
The Constitution is THE foundation built to protect citizens from a Tyrannical government.. It has kept the United States stable for 250 years, Politicians have tried to ignor the Constitution and “We The People” many times. They try to inject ideologues into the Supreme Court that will help them circumvent the Constitution. Many of those in Power have broken the trust of the people by violating their Oath Of Office.
I believe we need to hold them accountable for their violations of that oath.
If they understood that there would be legal ramifications for their abuses,, maybe they would then again, start working for the people..

Gooser

Franco
12-31-2012, 08:47 AM
In just a few days, Congress will solemnly swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. They should read Article 1 Section 8 and the Bill of Rights before taking such a serious oath. Most legislation violates key provisions of the Constitution in very basic ways, and if members can’t bring themselves to say “no” in the face of pressure from the special interests, they have broken trust with their constituents and violated their oath. Congress does not exist to serve the special interests. It exists to protect the rule of law. Ron Paul

MooseGooser
12-31-2012, 09:14 AM
I think another problem of our more recent government, especially after FDR,, is its tactic of the re-definition of words used in the Constitution.

"Equal" being the most raped..

"Equal" now meaning being "Made" equal,, instead of being "Created" equal.. In other words being made "Equal" through re-distribution of wealth.

I believe the Constitution meant "Equal" meaning be No man has superiority over another..

I also think the total new interpretation of the "General welfare" clause of the Constitution, has bought our country to its kness,, and is the Main Cause of our problems today..

I very much agree with the following.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I am quite certain that the founding fathers never realized how much some of those words recorded in the preamble to the constitution and in the introduction to section 8 would alter the way Washington does business, nor would they approve.
Up until about 1937 congress limited its business to the 17 enumerated powers outlined in Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution. But starting with FDR in 1937 and continuing on to this day Liberals have sought to use the "general welfare clause", to justify all manner of interference in our lives and Liberty, at least in their minds "for our own good".
Below, in a 1791 letter to George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, who should know something about the original framers thoughts lays out for Washington his ideas of the purpose of the general welfare clause. The italics are Mr. Jefferson's:
To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, to lay taxes of providing for the general welfare. For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.
So in other words, the line of thinking that the Congress can use the general welfare clause to justify anything Congress thinks is "for the general welfare" is absolutely ridiculous and unconstitutional. Congress may lay taxes to provide for the general welfare but only within the defined and limited powers outline in the rest of the constitution.
Today Congress thinks it is best for the general welfare to force us all to buy health insurance. Maybe tomorrow it will be to limit each family to one child, or take away personal property rights. And if the general welfare clause was meant to give Congress such unlimited power, how are we to know when the general welfare clause trumps the defined powers outlined in the Constitution. The 10th Amendment states quite clearly: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people", no where does it add "unless it is a power the Congress thinks is for the "general welfare".
Why bother outlining the Right of Free Speech if the general welfare clause gives Congress the power to cancel free speech -- if deemed necessary to "provide for the general welfare"?
Why bother to define the Freedom of the Press if Congress can decide that restricting a free press is "for the general welfare"? Throughout history, dictators have used power to control populations all the while saying it was for the public good or general welfare.
If the general welfare clause was meant to give Congress the power to do whatever Congress thinks is best for the general welfare, the Founding Fathers wasted a great deal of precious time in the summer of 1787 listing out definite limits to the federal government's power.
They could have just written the general welfare clause and gone home.
www.governmentvsliberty.info (http://www.governmentvsliberty.info)

When elected officials deliberatly Mis interprete the constitution and use that interpretation to go against what the Constitutions Soul is,,, and dis regard thier Oath of office,, again,, I feel they should be held accountable.. By the very least,, they should neve be re-elected they should absolutly be thrown out of office..
It is our duty as Americans to see that this is done..

MooseGooser
12-31-2012, 09:32 AM
I agree very much with what Dr Paul says....

He stood no chance in Hell to be elected... That is a shame,, but a reality....
Some of us were left with a second choice.....

It didnt bode well with me but again,, reality...

The election didnt go my way.... We shall see where the Majority of this country wants to lead us...

I feel defeated,, and beleive our county is in very serious trouble.. I believe the Constitution is dying right before our eyes.

Folks talk all the time about the "good ol days" ....In MY opinion it was the Constitution that defined them..

Gooser

MooseGooser
12-31-2012, 09:55 AM
Remember what our sitting President said during Campain?

"Get Even!!! VOTE!!!""

I guess we all have to sit back and let it happen!

Is it his hated of the Constitution he want to get even with???
If so,,,, He took an Oath!!! He LIED to us all!!! He is NOT an American!!!! He disparages all that have fought and died defending that Constitution...

This is true for Senators, Congess people also... They take that same oath!!

Dont we as the GOVEREND have the responsiblity to hold their feet to the fire and demand they uphold that Constitution? To Obey that oath?
If we dont..... We get what we deserve.... No SOUl,,, No happiness,,, No Liberty!! Is that the United States you grew up in? Is that the United States you want your Grand kids to grow up in???

Gooser

Franco
12-31-2012, 09:57 AM
I agree very much with what Dr Paul says....

He stood no chance in Hell to be elected... That is a shame,, but a reality....
Some of us were left with a second choice.....

It didnt bode well with me but again,, reality...

The election didnt go my way.... We shall see where the Majority of this country wants to lead us...

I feel defeated,, and beleive our county is in very serious trouble.. I believe the Constitution is dying right before our eyes.

Folks talk all the time about the "good ol days" ....In MY opinion it was the Constitution that defined them..

Gooser

Well what do you know Gooser, we agree on something!

I never thought for a minute RP could win nor that any of the Repub candidates would unseat Obama. However, I did feel that it was all important that RP's message get heard. Those that wanted to did hear it inspite of the media.

Though he is retiring, riding off into the sunset, he is considered the Godfather of the modern day Libertarian Party. He has inspired a movement that is growing among all demographics that believe in personal responsibility and limited government. The torch has been passed to Rand and the growing support of RP's ideals by his deciples.

HPL
12-31-2012, 10:29 AM
Well what do you know Gooser, we agree on something!

I never thought for a minute RP could win nor that any of the Repub candidates would unseat Obama. However, I did feel that it was all important that RP's message get heard. Those that wanted to did hear it inspite of the media.

Though he is retiring, riding off into the sunset, he is considered the Godfather of the modern day Libertarian Party. He has inspired a movement that is growing among all demographics that believe in personal responsibility and limited government. The torch has been passed to Rand and the growing support of RP's ideals by his deciples.

Franco, I know that this is beating a dead horse, but have to say this: If, knowing that RP didn't have a snowball's chance......., but feeling that this message was important, the best course of action would have been to donate as much time and money to the RP campaign as you could afford, but then actually vote for the best candidate that you thought might have a chance of winning. Perhaps, in your district, as in mine, a vote for Romney didn't really count anyway as my area is so heavily Democrat that if all the Republicans vote twice, the Dem candidate is going to win anyway.

Franco
12-31-2012, 10:41 AM
Franco, I know that this is beating a dead horse, but have to say this: If, knowing that RP didn't have a snowball's chance......., but feeling that this message was important, the best course of action would have been to donate as much time and money to the RP campaign as you could afford, but then actually vote for the best candidate that you thought might have a chance of winning. Perhaps, in your district, as in mine, a vote for Romney didn't really count anyway as my area is so heavily Democrat that if all the Republicans vote twice, the Dem candidate is going to win anyway.

I did donate a lot of time and some money to his campaign! In the last week alone I have gotten 4 people to convert from Republican to Libertarian and two from Dem to Libertarian on thier voter registration which can be done online. I am active in the state's party and may even run for office myself. Not that I would have a chance but we do need people to step forward.

As I have mention before, if Charles Manson was runiing as an (R) in my state, the state would overwhelmingly vote for him. So, I not only voted my conscience, my voted actually meant something.

P S
Along with some others, I am working to organize a student group of Libertarians on the UL campus. Right now, they are a losely organized group and we want to get them more involved on campus and with the state organization.

Marvin S
12-31-2012, 11:41 AM
Though he is retiring, riding off into the sunset, he is considered the Godfather of the modern day Libertarian Party. deciples.

I would believe that Goldwater would have to be considered the Godfather :rolleyes:. But I will say this - I don't know how stupid the LA voter is but I do believe they could come closer than you do to disciples :confused:. If you do decide to pursue office, for god's sake, get someone to spell check for you :-P. Can you spell your name without misspelling it?

MooseGooser
12-31-2012, 11:54 AM
Well dont get all gushy inside Franco,,

My vote this past election was to emove Obama fom the office.
The pocess of converting Repubs to Libertarianisum is a noble gestur,, but if it took away votes from the lesser of the two evils (Obama vs Romney) then I think your idealogue is silly...

Right now.. looking at what is happening,, I would MUCH rather right now to have a Republican controlled House and Senate,,, and a Republican President to guide the reins.. Very MUCH not perfect,, but one hell of a lot better than what we have now,, as yoiu can see by this Presidents concieved "mandate"

Someday, Franco,,, Someday,,, maybe you and I can Shake hands!! I am not vey enthused at the direction our our country in these times...

I trained my dog this moning... As I retuned to where I was parked,, perched in the tree above me,, was a Bald eagle!!!
Kinda Got me a bit ferklempt! maybe it was an Omen!!!:):)

Gooser

Franco
12-31-2012, 11:58 AM
I would believe that Goldwater would have to be considered the Godfather :rolleyes:. But I will say this - I don't know how stupid the LA voter is but I do believe they could come closer than you do to disciples :confused:. If you do decide to pursue office, for god's sake, get someone to spell check for you :-P. Can you spell your name without misspelling it?

No one under 60 remembers Goldwater. The political world has evolved since then, maybe you should too.

So I misspelled disciples, get over it!

Pals
12-31-2012, 11:58 AM
Anyone see the NYTs~apparently calling for the end of the Evil constitution? I kid you not. It makes me sick. The only thing I can see as hopeful is that our military takes the same oath to Uphold and defend our Constitution.........what is happening to this country?? When is it ok to say "lets get rid of the constitution"?

Marvin S
12-31-2012, 12:14 PM
Anyone see the NYTs~apparently calling for the end of the Evil constitution? I kid you not. It makes me sick. The only thing I can see as hopeful is that our military takes the same oath to Uphold and defend our Constitution.........what is happening to this country?? When is it ok to say "lets get rid of the constitution"?

I recently read an article about the sad state of our military leadership, I believe in the New Yorker. If the NY finds our military leadership lacking, I'm not sure the military will be a dependable stopgap to uphold the constitution :(.

Marvin S
12-31-2012, 12:22 PM
No one under 60 remembers Goldwater. The political world has evolved since then, maybe you should too.

So I misspelled disciples, get over it!

An evolution that is not an improvement - Your guy RP is very reminiscent of another Congressman from TX, circa 1860 or so who rode the keep the family business going, even when inefficient, into a several million dollar war chest :p.

If disciples was the only thing you misspelled or mangled there would not be an issue, but yours is so often you give the appearance of being not to literate ;).

MooseGooser
12-31-2012, 12:34 PM
I am 59.

My dads hero was Goldwater I agrre with Marvin... Goldwater was the first..

Miss Pals... The second post I made is the Beliefs of "Oath Keepers"

They ae composed of ex Military and Police....

The have a web site..

Citizens can join also..

Search "Oath Keepers"

Gooser

MooseGooser
12-31-2012, 12:38 PM
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

charly_t
12-31-2012, 12:40 PM
Anyone see the NYTs~apparently calling for the end of the Evil constitution? ................................................

A lot of this goes back to what our schools are teaching at all levels.

Golddogs
12-31-2012, 02:37 PM
No one under 60 remembers Goldwater. The political world has evolved since then, maybe you should too.

So I misspelled disciples, get over it!

I would change that to read 30. I'm under 60 and remember him well as the last true conservitive Republican to run for Pres. Most of the history and civics have him in them and I for one would like to see a change back to the politics of his day. At least they TRIED to get things done for teh good of the country, unlike the ( fill in your own adjective ) we have in power today.

Sorry Franco, more people need to be educated about Goldwater and what he stood for.

road kill
12-31-2012, 02:48 PM
I would change that to read 30. I'm under 60 and remember him well as the last true conservitive Republican to run for Pres. Most of the history and civics have him in them and I for one would like to see a change back to the politics of his day. At least they TRIED to get things done for teh good of the country, unlike the ( fill in your own adjective ) we have in power today.

Sorry Franco, more people need to be educated about Goldwater and what he stood for.
I remember Goldwater.
I am just a smidge over 60.
I remember the "shock" commercials the Democrats ran of the NUKE going off killing chidren playing with flowers.:rolleyes:


I also remember JFK (just finished "Killing Kennedy").
He would be too conservative to be a Republican.

It's a "Brave New World.":cool:

BonMallari
12-31-2012, 03:00 PM
I remember Goldwater.
I am just a smidge over 60.
I remember the "shock" commercials the Democrats ran of the NUKE going off killing chidren playing with flowers.:rolleyes:


I also remember JFK (just finished "Killing Kennedy").
He would be too conservative to be a Republican.

It's a "Brave New World.":cool:

I am under 60 but I too remember those commercials because they aimed it at the college kids of which I had a couple of brothers in school at the time,they tried to scare them into thinking that AuH2O (remember that bumpersticker) would ship them all off to Viet Nam to be slaughtered....anyone remember the idiot Robert McNamara, between he and LBJ they probably had more to do with a lot of young men getting killed in SE Asia

Franco
12-31-2012, 04:10 PM
I would change that to read 30. I'm under 60 and remember him well as the last true conservitive Republican to run for Pres. Most of the history and civics have him in them and I for one would like to see a change back to the politics of his day. At least they TRIED to get things done for teh good of the country, unlike the ( fill in your own adjective ) we have in power today.

Sorry Franco, more people need to be educated about Goldwater and what he stood for.

For the record, I was the first one to ever mention Goldwater on POTUS. I made a statement that this country made its biggest mistake when we elected LBJ over Goldwater!

My point about the under 60 is that Goldwater is no longer relevant. Time and politics has moved on. Goldwater was a traditional Conservative and not like the so-called Conservatives of today. But, he has zero influence in today's politics. He isn't influencing anyone today especially the younger generation. That's why he is not the Godfather! See post #10 for context.

Golddogs
12-31-2012, 05:07 PM
For the record, I was the first one to ever mention Goldwater on POTUS. I made a statement that this country made its biggest mistake when we elected LBJ over Goldwater!

My point about the under 60 is that Goldwater is no longer relevant. Time and politics has moved on. Goldwater was a traditional Conservative and not like the so-called Conservatives of today. But, he has zero influence in today's politics. He isn't influencing anyone today especially the younger generation. That's why he is not the Godfather! See post #10 for context.
No arguement, but he could if he was ussed as an example of what good conservative politics can be rather than the bile spewing Tea partyers of the followers of newt.

Franco
12-31-2012, 05:15 PM
No arguement, but he could if he was ussed as an example of what good conservative politics can be rather than the bile spewing Tea partyers of the followers of newt.

No doubt about it!

His loss to LBJ was devastating for the country. LBJ not only ushered in the Age of Welfare as we know it today, he expanded our roll in Vietnam. He was absoultely the worse President in modern times. We are still paying for his social programs today.

However, Goldwater is not the reason for the growth of the Libertarian Party today. He may have been inspiring but never inspired a political movement.

Marvin S
12-31-2012, 06:43 PM
For the record, I was the first one to ever mention Goldwater on POTUS. I made a statement that this country made its biggest mistake when we elected LBJ over Goldwater!

Your opportunity - Goldwater wrote a book prior to his campaign - name that book & his proposal to right the ship along with the time frame he stated it would take - I personally think your claim to be bogus :rolleyes:.


My point about the under 60 is that Goldwater is no longer relevant. Time and politics has moved on. Goldwater was a traditional Conservative and not like the so-called Conservatives of today. But, he has zero influence in today's politics. He isn't influencing anyone today especially the younger generation. That's why he is not the Godfather! See post #10 for context.

Reagan won running as a Goldwaterite - not that he was as conservative as Goldwater. As for your younger generation claim, most of those guys are disaffected libs or anarchists, sad but true.


No doubt about it!

His loss to LBJ was devastating for the country. LBJ not only ushered in the Age of Welfare as we know it today, he expanded our roll in Vietnam. He was absoultely the worse President in modern times. We are still paying for his social programs today.

However, Goldwater is not the reason for the growth of the Libertarian Party today. He may have been inspiring but never inspired a political movement.

If my memory serves me correctly, being one of those old guys, Michener's book Texas talks about a populist congressman from eastern TX who managed to dupe his constituents into a fat campaign coffer. When I read that chapter my 1st thought was of your boy - never accomplished anything, never passed anything, but managed to dupe a lot of neophytes, such as yourself into providing him a nice lifestyle :confused:.

Franco
12-31-2012, 08:24 PM
Pathetic Marvin, simply pathetic.

Marvin S
12-31-2012, 09:11 PM
Pathetic Marvin, simply pathetic.

No, what's pathetic is your non-answer :rolleyes:.

HPL
12-31-2012, 10:11 PM
If disciples was the only thing you misspelled or mangled there would not be an issue, but yours is so often you give the appearance of being not to (TOO) literate ;).

A bit ironic considering the context.

Franco
12-31-2012, 10:36 PM
No, what's pathetic is your non-answer :rolleyes:.

Goldwater is NOT the Godfather of the Libertarian movement. Your diatribe about Reagan and all your other BS is just a diversion because you know you are wrong. Calling people trying to reform government because they object to the size of government anarchist, demonstrates just how out-of-touch you really are. BTW, Reagan first ran over 32 years ago! It will soon be 2013.

Jake Lunsford
01-01-2013, 12:37 AM
Gooser,

Where did you come up with this list?

Thanks


OATH KEEPERS: ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEY (http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html)


1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

MooseGooser
01-01-2013, 08:17 AM
Jake

Those are the Ten Orders Oath Keepers will NOT obey..

Oath Keepers are an organization of, Military, Police, and Firefighters who have taken The "Oath" to preserve and Protect the Constitution.

They Understand the threat of Oppressive Government trying to Rule instead of govern.

They Understand and vow that "Oath" means something,,, and isnt something that is to be ignored..

Here is their link..

I believe because of the Oath Military has taken to protect thhe constitution,, It lessens the chance our military would ever turn on us..

This is their Oath!



Veterans, you swore an Oath...Oath of Enlistment
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Officers Oath
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God


http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

As I said ealier,,,, Politicians who thake their Oath of office lightly,,mor dont understand its meaning,, or the Constitution,, and deliberatly lobby for laws that go against its foundation,, should be held legally respnsible,, and be immediatly removed from office...

If those people ignor their oath,, they have lied to the people who voted for them,, and they are NOT Americans..

A Government official that says "Get Even.... VOTE"...... doesnt understand,, Especially when his interpretation of the constitution is one that allows power to a group of people,, to take money from others and redistribute it to others... Not to mention,, taking away peoples rights to defend themselves..

MooseGooser
01-01-2013, 08:34 AM
I also believe we as citizens need to carefully look at HOW the constitution is being taught in our schools... Our government schools that we fund through taxes


ANNND as a side note:

The Oath Of Office doesnt require an affliation to ANY Political Party either...

So all this talk of Democrat, Republican, Libratarian tea party ,,, is pointless,, beacause those Officials have sworn an OATH to the Constitution.. I say throw ANY ONE of them out if they ignor that Oath,, and legally punish them regardless of party afffliation.

Remember,, we Impeached a standing President for lying under oath for having Sex in his Office!!
But we dont do a think if those same officials disregard our lands most sacred law??

Marvin S
01-01-2013, 09:27 AM
Your opportunity - Goldwater wrote a book prior to his campaign - name that book & his proposal to right the ship along with the time frame he stated it would take -

Answer the question :rolleyes:.


Goldwater is NOT the Godfather of the Libertarian movement. Your diatribe about Reagan and all your other BS is just a diversion because you know you are wrong. Calling people trying to reform government because they object to the size of government anarchist, demonstrates just how out-of-touch you really are. BTW, Reagan first ran over 32 years ago! It will soon be 2013.

So, who keeps trying to change the subject - on one of these threads not to long ago, you were admonished as not being the person you were in 2010 - from your more recent posts I would say you drank the Kool Aid & are going through the phase most political neophytes go through while they are learning :-P.

Name that book & Goldwater's proposals :confused:.

huntinman
01-01-2013, 10:01 AM
Answer the question :rolleyes:.



So, who keeps trying to change the subject - on one of these threads not to long ago, you were admonished as not being the person you were in 2010 - from your more recent posts I would say you drank the Kool Aid & are going through the phase most political neophytes go through while they are learning :-P.

Name that book & Goldwater's proposals :confused:.


surely he remembers how to use google?

Franco
01-01-2013, 11:40 AM
Answer the question :rolleyes:.



So, who keeps trying to change the subject - on one of these threads not to long ago, you were admonished as not being the person you were in 2010 - from your more recent posts I would say you drank the Kool Aid & are going through the phase most political neophytes go through while they are learning :-P.

Name that book & Goldwater's proposals :confused:.

Actually, I gave up on the Repubs in 08. As I wrote back in 07, I doubted that the GOP could ever recover after 8 years of GW Bush. That his massive deficit spending, two needless wars costing thousands of US military lives, thousands more crippled, his bailouts to his Wall St cronies were enough for me to stop being a Repub. Thus, I gravitated to a more realistic party and platform! Unlike you, I refuse go through life with my eyes closed!

You wrote that Goldwater is the Godfather of the Libertarian movement. The Libertarian Party was just about dead until RP revived it. Thus, Goldwater though a great Conservative of 50 years ago is NOT, I repeat NOT the Godfather of the modern Libertarian movement!

Jake Lunsford
01-01-2013, 12:35 PM
Gooser,

Reason I ask is that I have taken both of the oaths you quoted above and had never hear of these 10 rules.

Marvin S
01-01-2013, 01:25 PM
Actually, I gave up on the Repubs in 08. As I wrote back in 07, I doubted that the GOP could ever recover after 8 years of GW Bush. That his massive deficit spending, two needless wars costing thousands of US military lives, thousands more crippled, his bailouts to his Wall St cronies were enough for me to stop being a Repub. Thus, I gravitated to a more realistic party and platform! Unlike you, I refuse go through life with my eyes closed!

You wrote that Goldwater is the Godfather of the Libertarian movement. The Libertarian Party was just about dead until RP revived it. Thus, Goldwater though a great Conservative of 50 years ago is NOT, I repeat NOT the Godfather of the modern Libertarian movement!

Franco, you're arguing like a teenager - anything but keep on subject - I asked a question that would be easy for someone who professes the knowledge level you profess, yet you refuse to answer - I personally don't care what you repeat, I just want you to answer the question :confused:.


surely he remembers how to use google?

Bill, I don't have a clue what he remembers - I just know that dback made a good call the other day that fits with the way he has been acting :-P. & I'm just trying to see what he knows. Most folks are smart enough to know something about the subject before they wade into an argument :-P, but not Franco.

Franco
01-01-2013, 01:42 PM
Marvin, you are an idiot!

huntinman
01-01-2013, 01:50 PM
Marvin, you are an idiot!

No excuse for that kind of talk Franco... You know better. Happy New Year to you too...

Marvin S
01-01-2013, 01:56 PM
Marvin, you are an idiot!

I am not the one refusing to answer a question :confused:!!!!!!!!!!!

Franco
01-01-2013, 02:09 PM
1)You said RP was not the godfather of the Libertarian movement, that Goldwater is.
2)I stated why you assumption was incorrect.
3) Then, because you didn't want to admit that you are wrong, you brought up subjects and material unrelated to the contested point!

If you have something that backs up your assumption, post it up. If not, then I'll just write it off to you being out of touch. Other than that, I'm not playing your game.

MooseGooser
01-01-2013, 07:00 PM
Gooser,

Reason I ask is that I have taken both of the oaths you quoted above and had never hear of these 10 rules.

Jake!!

Again,,,Those ten Orders that Oath Keepers wont obey,, Are on their front page of their website.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/


If you have never heard of them,, You must not be a member of Oath Keepers

Gooser

Marvin S
01-01-2013, 07:08 PM
1)You said RP was not the godfather of the Libertarian movement, that Goldwater is.
2)I stated why you assumption was incorrect.
3) Then, because you didn't want to admit that you are wrong, you brought up subjects and material unrelated to the contested point!

If you have something that backs up your assumption, post it up. If not, then I'll just write it off to you being out of touch. Other than that, I'm not playing your game.

You are apparently the only person on this forum who believes your stuff, but I asked you a question you refuse to answer. But having a little history in politics I'll give you this:

1) RP has a voting record kept by Club for Growth that establishes him as a 67%er lifetime, if you want to waste your money supporting that you have every right to, our's is a country where people can do stupid things as you are proving.

2) RP has never, & I say never, been able to gain traction on anything, passing legislation, gaining a meaningful vote running as a Republican (if you think your movement is going anyplace, why not run as a Libertarian?).

3) I don't believe I have ever posted anything comparing the 2 folks in this discussion, but I will post this, having RP in a discussion with Goldwater is an insult to the fine person that Goldwater was.

4) If the Paul's are such out & out Libertarians why are they using a Republican mailing list to solicit donations?

Have a nice New Year, enjoy fantasizing about the Paul's, just don't bother sensible folks with that crap.