PDA

View Full Version : Hinting @ Executive Order For Gun Control



Jacob Hawkes
01-10-2013, 07:02 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/10/vice-president-to-meet-with-gun-safety-groups/

How freaking many executive orders do they think they're entitled to???? The arrogant bastard thinks he's god or something. :x:x:x:x

Jason Glavich
01-10-2013, 07:09 AM
But it isn't fair that congress can't pass anything because of the GOP.....All these great ideas are getting voted down.

caryalsobrook
01-10-2013, 07:19 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/10/vice-president-to-meet-with-gun-safety-groups/

How freaking many executive orders do they think they're entitled to???? The arrogant bastard thinks he's god or something. :x:x:x:x
No, he thinks the contitution is flawd and hass said so. He thinks the system of checks and balances restrains him from doing what he thinks is best, so he ignores it. I'm sure that if he had his way, there would be no legislature and no courts, just HIM. You only have to look at history to see the result of such thinking to realize what can happen.

zeus3925
01-10-2013, 07:33 AM
Hate to bring up "W" again but if you take a look at that administration,you'll find this is nothing new. I don't like it anymore than you do.

But as I have been saying all along, if gun owners don't make strong effort in keeping guns out of the hands of felons and crazies , then sooner or later the anti-gun lobby is going to get the ear of the public and the politicians. The NRA stance of more guns on the street is not a sufficient answer and more in the way of sanity has got to come out of them. If you want to keep your rights then, you must exercise your responsibilities.

caryalsobrook
01-10-2013, 07:42 AM
Hate to bring up "W" again but if you take a look at that administration,you'll find this is nothing new. I don't like it anymore than you do.

But as I have been saying all along, if gun owners don't make strong effort in keeping guns out of the hands of felons and crazies , then sooner or later the anti-gun lobby is going to get the ear of the public and the politicians. The NRA stance of more guns on the street is not a sufficient answer and more in the way of sanity has got to come out of them. If you want to keep your rights then, you must exercise your responsibilities.

Don't say you hate to bring up "W". NOBODY MADE YOU! As, I said the issue is much bigger that gun rights. The issue IS OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT AND OUR CONSTITUTION!

BonMallari
01-10-2013, 07:59 AM
There isnt an Executive Order that can be written to override the Constitution....BUT the current POTUS thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and is going to push things to the Nth letter of the law until he gets stopped by either Congress or the SCOTUS or both....make no mistake he will try, because he has a sympathetic media, a sheeple of an electorate and control of the Senate...he is also on the verge of being able to shape the court with activist jurists...the American public has no one to blame but themselves for letting it get this far

Buzz
01-10-2013, 08:37 AM
It will be interesting to see what they come up with. My guess is that all he can really do by executive order is make sure that the laws we already have are enforced, just like the NRA has been asking for a while now. I'm sure they can also put up more hoops for us to jump through in order to buy guns and ammo. They can most likely make you take responsibility for keeping your guns safely out of the hands of mentally ill friends and family, in other words - punish you for not being responsible. Not long ago the supreme court ruled on the 2nd amendment and the federal government cannot make laws banning guns. States and local governments can and most likely will however.

PMG 131
01-10-2013, 08:39 AM
I think they expected people to roll over and take any gun laws they passed, because of the high emotions. However with push back from the American people they are having to go with their last resort plan. With executive orders the congress can override or courts can overturn.

zeus3925
01-10-2013, 08:43 AM
Don't say you hate to bring up "W". NOBODY MADE YOU! As, I said the issue is much bigger that gun rights. The issue IS OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT AND OUR CONSTITUTION!

Sorry to crimp your tighty whities, Cary, but my point is POTUSes of the past have used executive orders for a number of things, W was a past champion at this. It is nothing new. Sometimes they aren't popular. Ask the folks around Kanab, Utah what they think of Bill Clinton's order creating the Escalante-Golden Staircase, N.M.

road kill
01-10-2013, 08:52 AM
Sorry to crimp your tighty whities, Cary, but my point is POTUSes of the past have used executive orders for a number of things, W was a past champion at this. It is nothing new. Sometimes they aren't popular. Ask the folks around Kanab, Utah what they think of Bill Clinton's order creating the Escalante-Golden Staircase, N.M.
I'm with cary, it seemed like you were trying to use "W's" bad behavior to justify Obama's bad behavior.:cool:

BTW--When did "W" use executive order to violate the constitution, I forgot when that was...........

mudminnow
01-10-2013, 09:18 AM
W didnt use executive order to trample the constitution, he just got the patriot act passed which did a pretty good job of it.

caryalsobrook
01-10-2013, 09:19 AM
Sorry to crimp your tighty whities, Cary, but my point is POTUSes of the past have used executive orders for a number of things, W was a past champion at this. It is nothing new. Sometimes they aren't popular. Ask the folks around Kanab, Utah what they think of Bill Clinton's order creating the Escalante-Golden Staircase, N.M.
Zeus has no idea what color underware I wear. He may know the color underware of some other guy, BUT HE HAS NO IDEA OF THE COLOR OF MINE!! The last thing I need to do is to defend W because HE IS NOT PRESIDENT NOW!! Your point is to change the point, nothing more, nothing less.

huntinman
01-10-2013, 09:25 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/10/vice-president-to-meet-with-gun-safety-groups/

How freaking many executive orders do they think they're entitled to???? The arrogant bastard thinks he's god or something. :x:x:x:x

According to Buzz, that would be the arrogant B...

dixidawg
01-10-2013, 09:28 AM
Not long ago the supreme court ruled on the 2nd amendment and the federal government cannot make laws banning guns. States and local governments can and most likely will however.


Wasn't McDonald a ruling against Illinois? Essentially saying the 2nd Amendment did apply to the states?

huntinman
01-10-2013, 09:32 AM
It will be interesting to see what they come up with. My guess is that all he can really do by executive order is make sure that the laws we already have are enforced, just like the NRA has been asking for a while now. I'm sure they can also put up more hoops for us to jump through in order to buy guns and ammo. They can most likely make you take responsibility for keeping your guns safely out of the hands of mentally ill friends and family, in other words - punish you for not being responsible. Not long ago the supreme court ruled on the 2nd amendment and the federal government cannot make laws banning guns. States and local governments can and most likely will however.

Right... Just like he makes sure the current laws regarding illegal immigration, illegal drug use, gun walking across the border, etc...etc... are enforced. I'm sure that's a TOP PRIORITY for this POTUS.

aandw
01-10-2013, 10:13 AM
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/orders/

huntinman
01-10-2013, 10:26 AM
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/orders/

Now show us the list from Obama

road kill
01-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Now show us the list from Obama
Not enough bandwidth!!!!


Anyways, back to using one poor behavior to justify another.
You know...."HhHHHhEeEEeeeEEeSSsSSsstTTttTTtAAaaAaaRRRrrRrrtTtT TTttEEeeEedDddDdIIIiiIiiTTttTtt!!!!":D

It's just the way they roll............

caryalsobrook
01-10-2013, 10:33 AM
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/orders/

I looked over the list and I must admit some I have no idea as to what they pertain. However I did not see any that would be defined as MAKING LAW. They appeared to be administrative changes TO CARRY OUT THE LAW. There is a big difference. If the President were to make such changes to more efficiently carry out the law, I have no problem. If they were to define what an assault weapon is AND THEN OUTLAWED THEM then I would consider that as making law. Big difference.

zeus3925
01-10-2013, 10:36 AM
I think in in my original statement that I was not a fan of executive orders to accomplish things that the Congress should otherwise do. I'm just saying it ain't new. I suspect this is more threat than promise to get Congress to jump.

zeus3925
01-10-2013, 10:50 AM
Obama's executive orders:
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/obama.html

Here is list of Ronald Reagan's:
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/reagan.html

And Bill Clinton's:
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/clinton.html

Brad Turner
01-10-2013, 11:28 AM
Obama, so far, is on par with recent presidents in regards to executive orders with 144 over 4 years. GWB had 291 over 8 years, Clinton 364 in the same time, GHB had 166 over 4 years and Regan with 381 over his 8 years.

aandw
01-10-2013, 02:45 PM
Now show us the list from Obama

didn't have time to look it up. i was reading over this list trying to find where Bush infringed on the rights of over 20 million law abiding citizens for his own political agenda.

aandw
01-10-2013, 02:47 PM
Now show us the list from Obama

didn't have time during lunch to look it up. i spent part of the time trying to find where W infringed on the RIGHT of over 20 million law abiding citizens for his own political agenda. Sorry
FYI, i couldn't find it

huntinman
01-10-2013, 03:14 PM
didn't have time during lunch to look it up. i spent part of the time trying to find where W infringed on the RIGHT of over 20 million law abiding citizens for his own political agenda. Sorry
FYI, i couldn't find it

Ah... fresh liberal meat for us heathens...

HPL
01-10-2013, 03:31 PM
Ah... fresh liberal meat for us heathens...

Um, I'm not sure, but I think that you are misinterpreting aandw's position.

huntinman
01-10-2013, 03:36 PM
Um, I'm not sure, but I think that you are misinterpreting aandw's position.

You might be right... Wouldn't be the first time and probably won't be the last. If so, sorry to aandw!

Pete
01-11-2013, 09:06 AM
...he is also on the verge of being able to shape the court with activist jurists...the American public has no one to blame but themselves for letting it get this far

What was it that you did or did not do to cause this mess.? Assuming ytou are part of the american public.
I'm not being smart here. Just trying to understand why you continue to think its my fault.
I didn't vote for any of them and I'm talking decades.
I go to work every day so I don't have to burden society
I don't have time or the inclination to run for office or control someones life
The list is endless why its not my fault.
I guess I am guilty of letting them take my money so they can add fat to their bureaucracy.
Pete

Pete

BonMallari
01-11-2013, 09:20 AM
What was it that you did or did not do to cause this mess.? Assuming ytou are part of the american public.
I'm not being smart here. Just trying to understand why you continue to think its my fault.
I didn't vote for any of them and I'm talking decades.
I go to work every day so I don't have to burden society
I don't have time or the inclination to run for office or control someones life
The list is endless why its not my fault.
I guess I am guilty of letting them take my money so they can add fat to their bureaucracy.
Pete

Pete

Pete : when I say WE, I mean figureatively as in society, NOT YOU singularly.....I blame all of us for voting and not voting....its more metaphorically speaking,not saying any one person is at fault

Bayou Magic
01-11-2013, 10:02 AM
Obama, so far, is on par with recent presidents in regards to executive orders with 144 over 4 years. GWB had 291 over 8 years, Clinton 364 in the same time, GHB had 166 over 4 years and Regan with 381 over his 8 years.

Not picking on you, Brad, but the quantity of executive orders is irrelevant. It is the subject and content of those EOs that matter. I could give you extensive, long, and boring details about some of them as I along with many others, were responsible for implementing and complying with them. For example, check out EO 13514. It's a real doozie!

Circumventing congress to write widespread laws that apply to the entire nation will be difficult, if not impossible. However, EOs that pertain to federal government entities that go beyond congressional actions are common. They can place restrictions on federal agencies and force compulsory actions on federal agencies that are far more restrictive than the laws that apply to the public. Again, check out EO 13514. And that's just one example.

fp

MooseGooser
01-11-2013, 10:34 AM
From James Madison, Federalist 10

Quote:

No man is allowed to be a judge in his own cause because his interest would certainly bias his judgment, and, not improbably, corrupt his integrity. With equal, nay with greater reason, a body of men are unfit to be both judges and parties at the same time; yet what are many of the most important acts of legislation but so many judicial determinations, not indeed concerning the rights of single persons, but concerning the rights of large bodies of citizens?

And a quote from George Washington.



Circular Letter to the States
George Washington
Legislatures, through a long succession of years, are laid open for our use, and their collected wisdom may be happily applied in the Establishment of our forms of Government; the free cultivation of Letters, the unbounded extension of Commerce, the progressive refinement of Manners, the growing liberality of sentiment, and above all, the pure and benign light of Revelation, have had a meliorating influence on mankind and increased the blessings of Society. At this auspicious period,

the United States came into existence as a Nation, and if their Citizens should not be completely free and happy, the fault will be entirely their own.



George Washington, "Circular to the States," June 8, 1783, in W.W. Abbot et al., eds., The Papers of George Washington, 1748–1799

Brad Turner
01-11-2013, 11:16 AM
Not picking on you, Brad, but the quantity of executive orders is irrelevant. It is the subject and content of those EOs that matter. I could give you extensive, long, and boring details about some of them as I along with many others, were responsible for implementing and complying with them. For example, check out EO 13514. It's a real doozie!

Circumventing congress to write widespread laws that apply to the entire nation will be difficult, if not impossible. However, EOs that pertain to federal government entities that go beyond congressional actions are common. They can place restrictions on federal agencies and force compulsory actions on federal agencies that are far more restrictive than the laws that apply to the public. Again, check out EO 13514. And that's just one example.

fp

Fp,
I am in complete agreement with you. The executive order should only be used to make sure existing laws are carried out, not to make new ones IMO A President should NEVER be allowed to weasel his way around Congress. This President thinks that if he dosen't get his way, he can just use this power to do whatever he wants.

Pete
01-11-2013, 01:56 PM
Pete : when I say WE, I mean figureatively as in society, NOT YOU singularly.....I blame all of us for voting and not voting....its more metaphorically speaking,not saying any one person is at fault ( QUOTE )

Thanks Bon
I get it

ppro
01-11-2013, 04:07 PM
Probably wrong thread if so sorry. Unfortunately I think a combination of executive orders and more importantly taxes will prove to be the strategy. Most idiots will not see any problem with this and the cost of recreational shooting will put a large damper on future purchases while not infringing on gun rights. Huge taxes will curb any activity. What a sad road were going down.

BonMallari
01-11-2013, 04:33 PM
Probably wrong thread if so sorry. Unfortunately I think a combination of executive orders and more importantly taxes will prove to be the strategy. Most idiots will not see any problem with this and the cost of recreational shooting will put a large damper on future purchases while not infringing on gun rights. Huge taxes will curb any activity. What a sad road were going down.

IMO that is EXACTLY the strategy they will use....ammo will be taxed like gasoline or cigarettes..you think a box of 209 primers for your Gun X training pistol is high now, a 5lb canister of powder or a 25lb bag of lead shot will rival the street equivalent of a bag of marijuana...besides a hunting license, I can see a day where there will be some sort of firearms user tax/license...people who are now actively engaged in shooting sports (skeet,trap,sporting clays,IPSC) and similar activities will no longer participate because of the outrageous costs

Gerry Clinchy
01-11-2013, 05:40 PM
IMO that is EXACTLY the strategy they will use....ammo will be taxed like gasoline or cigarettes..you think a box of 209 primers for your Gun X training pistol is high now, a 5lb canister of powder or a 25lb bag of lead shot will rival the street equivalent of a bag of marijuana...besides a hunting license, I can see a day where there will be some sort of firearms user tax/license...people who are now actively engaged in shooting sports (skeet,trap,sporting clays,IPSC) and similar activities will no longer participate because of the outrageous costs
And I'm sure that various anti-gun groups and individuals have been working on exactly how to do this taxation over a long period of time.

I know most on the Forum have little use for Rush L, but he threw out an interesting thought yesterday. He didn't believe that the Obamacare law, with its 2200 pages, was a matter of two months of work. He believes progressives have had people tasked with composing such a law over a long period of time ... since Hillary tried health care renovation long ago, I honestly believe he's correct. Why did Congress have to read the bill? Because they did not author it ... it was done for them.

This absolutely would apply to gun control supporters ... I'm sure they've been busy, under the radar, composing the means for instituting their "dream gun laws" ever since the mission began. Too bad gun rights supporters haven't been working as hard on composing the laws that could be used to prevent the tragedies like Newtown. The difference here is between action and reaction.

Seems like the Constitutional-minded Americans are always in the mode of reacting, rather than taking a leadership perspective. Changing that mindset could make a big difference.

huntinman
01-11-2013, 05:44 PM
Gerry, I listen to Rush and I enjoy it... Proud of who I am... Anyone doesn't like it, that's their problem not mine.

MooseGooser
01-11-2013, 07:00 PM
And I'm sure that various anti-gun groups and individuals have been working on exactly how to do this taxation over a long period of time.

I know most on the Forum have little use for Rush L, but he threw out an interesting thought yesterday. He didn't believe that the Obamacare law, with its 2200 pages, was a matter of two months of work. He believes progressives have had people tasked with composing such a law over a long period of time ... since Hillary tried health care renovation long ago, I honestly believe he's correct. Why did Congress have to read the bill? Because they did not author it ... it was done for them.

This absolutely would apply to gun control supporters ... I'm sure they've been busy, under the radar, composing the means for instituting their "dream gun laws" ever since the mission began. Too bad gun rights supporters haven't been working as hard on composing the laws that could be used to prevent the tragedies like Newtown. The difference here is between action and reaction.

Seems like the Constitutional-minded Americans are always in the mode of reacting, rather than taking a leadership perspective. Changing that mindset could make a big difference.


Small arms treaty act..
and Oas treaty. (http://www.davekopel.com/2a/Mags/oas-treaty.htm)

Duck Blind
01-11-2013, 08:24 PM
"In modern usage, the term "dictator" is generally used to describe a leader who holds and/or abuses an extraordinary amount of personal power, especially the power to make laws without effective restraint by a legislative assembly[citation needed]. Dictatorships are often characterized by some of the following traits: suspension of elections and of civil liberties; proclamation of a state of emergency; rule by decree; repression of political opponents without abiding by rule of law procedures; these include single-party state, and cult of personality". - Wiki

Jay Dufour
01-12-2013, 05:18 AM
Is it true that they are trying to sneak through a repeal of presidential term limits ? I mean to plant it into another bill so soerto gets to be president for life . I'm faily sure he would be re elected numerous times , since we can't figure out how to beat him.Very scary.

zeus3925
01-12-2013, 08:28 AM
IMO that is EXACTLY the strategy they will use....ammo will be taxed like gasoline or cigarettes..you think a box of 209 primers for your Gun X training pistol is high now, a 5lb canister of powder or a 25lb bag of lead shot will rival the street equivalent of a bag of marijuana...besides a hunting license, I can see a day where there will be some sort of firearms user tax/license...people who are now actively engaged in shooting sports (skeet,trap,sporting clays,IPSC) and similar activities will no longer participate because of the outrageous costs

The juggernaut has been set into motion. We gun owners have turned a blind eye to the previous mass shooting and taken an attitude of "..prying it out my cold dead fingers". We failed to be proactive in keeping guns"... out of their crazy paws". Now "...out of my cold dead fingers", has become a rear guard position. The gun ban folks are riding on a tsunami of support and are getting lobbying funds fast. Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords organization is already up $ 7 million in two days and counting. I doubt the NRA and its minions will be able to bring the juggernaut to a complete stop. But, if the political game is played with savvy and finesse it may be possible to steer the onrush In a more favorable direction.

Eric Johnson
01-12-2013, 10:01 AM
Is it true that they are trying to sneak through a repeal of presidential term limits ? I mean to plant it into another bill so soerto gets to be president for life . I'm faily sure he would be re elected numerous times , since we can't figure out how to beat him.Very scary.

Apparently such a bill has been introduced. It was introduced in the last Congress and never made it to a single Committee hearing.

It's not a matter of simple legislation. First, Congress must pass the legislation by a 2/3 majority of each house (or a Constitutional Convention must be called if requested by 2/3 of the states) and then it must pass 3/4 of the state legislatures or state Constitutional Conventions.

In short, such an idea is DOA for such a politically charged issue.