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Gerry Clinchy
01-18-2013, 12:14 PM
Due to a recent discussion on the Forum, I wanted to fact check some stuff ... and wanted to look at the various sites to do that in a fair and accurate way.

I stumbled across this article on the biased ways of fact checking that were used during the 2012 Elections. Is it any wonder that any of us could be "low-information voter" ... depending on whose fact-checking we use?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/11/05/the-ten-worst-fact-checks-of-the-2012-election/

I suppose that Forbes might be considered right-wing, but they use specific examples to show the "tactics" of fact-checking.

Buzz
01-18-2013, 01:02 PM
Let me guess. The ten worst fact checks favored Democrats.

Am I close?

Politifact on certain topics seemed to me to be especially terrible. I learned that you can never just read their bottom line rating, you have to read their explanation and then dig some more yourself.

One thing became abundantly clear to me this last election.
People are most easily conned when they’re getting their disinformation from someone who seems to be part of their tribe, and MSNBC and Fox both provide ample opportunity for people to stick with their own tribe.

Gerry Clinchy
01-18-2013, 01:21 PM
Buzz, the article describes "tactics" ... the examples given are right-favorable, but you could apply the "tactics" to any slant that fit your perspectives. One might expect that, since Forbes would be a right-leaning source. I would expect that both right- and left-leaning politicians would use these tactics.

Whatever one's leanings, I'd hope that most everyone on this forum is also willing to accept facts as best they can be uncovered, so they can evaluate for themselves. That would mean that all of us have to be aware of how the facts can be manipulated to advance agendas.

road kill
01-18-2013, 01:22 PM
Buzz, the article describes "tactics" ... the examples given are right-favorable, but you could apply the "tactics" to any slant that fit your perspectives. One might expect that, since Forbes would be a right-leaning source. I would expect that both right- and left-leaning politicians would use these tactics.

Whatever one's leanings, I'd hope that most everyone on this forum is also willing to accept facts as best they can be uncovered, so they can evaluate for themselves. That would mean that all of us have to be aware of how the facts can be manipulated to advance agendas.

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics!!"

Marvin S
01-18-2013, 01:37 PM
Let me guess. The ten worst fact checks favored Democrats.

Am I close?

Politifact on certain topics seemed to me to be especially terrible. I learned that you can never just read their bottom line rating, you have to read their explanation and then dig some more yourself.

One thing became abundantly clear to me this last election.
People are most easily conned when they’re getting their disinformation from someone who seems to be part of their tribe, and MSNBC and Fox both provide ample opportunity for people to stick with their own tribe.


What if one watches neither? What if one has a reading program that is inclusive of all reasonable points of view? In your very closed mind what does that make those people?

Franco
01-18-2013, 01:55 PM
Due to a recent discussion on the Forum, I wanted to fact check some stuff ... and wanted to look at the various sites to do that in a fair and accurate way.

I stumbled across this article on the biased ways of fact checking that were used during the 2012 Elections. Is it any wonder that any of us could be "low-information voter" ... depending on whose fact-checking we use?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/11/05/the-ten-worst-fact-checks-of-the-2012-election/

I suppose that Forbes might be considered right-wing, but they use specific examples to show the "tactics" of fact-checking.

Facts are facts, black and white. It is the stuff betwen the lines that the media and sources will twist.

Buzz
01-18-2013, 02:37 PM
What if one watches neither? What if one has a reading program that is inclusive of all reasonable points of view? In your very closed mind what does that make those people?


I didn't know I was close minded, but if you say so...

It is possible to be balanced in your reading, but it is also possible to ignore ideas from outside your tribe with that medium too. At least in my narrow minded opinion!

BonMallari
01-18-2013, 03:10 PM
I didn't know I was close minded, but if you say so...

It is possible to be balanced in your reading, but it is also possible to ignore ideas from outside your tribe with that medium too. At least in my narrow minded opinion!

Buzz : I wouldn't label you as closed or narrow minded.....but IMO you/me along with everyone else on this board suffer from SELECTIVE minded reading/listening...we hear/listen to those mediums that we want to hear from and shut out those that we dont care for...

kinda like our dogs that choose which whistle they want to hear, and which ones the choose to blow off :p:p

huntinman
01-18-2013, 06:24 PM
Buzz : I wouldn't label you as closed or narrow minded.....but IMO you/me along with everyone else on this board suffer from SELECTIVE minded reading/listening...we hear/listen to those mediums that we want to hear from and shut out those that we dont care for...

kinda like our dogs that choose which whistle they want to hear, and which ones the choose to blow off :p:p

Ha! My old dog is deaf... Unless I say... "You hungry?" She hears that every damn time!

Marvin S
01-18-2013, 08:02 PM
I didn't know I was close minded, but if you say so...

It is possible to be balanced in your reading, but it is also possible to ignore ideas from outside your tribe with that medium too. At least in my narrow minded opinion!

Your 1st reaction to someone as you post is they are a follower of the following: Beck, Limbaugh, Fox News, etc. yet you do not know that for a fact.

I read the New Yorker (Great jokes & an occasional good article, but east coast), National Review (again some good articles, but an east coast bias), lots of stuff from CATO (my favorite source as long as they stay away from drug legalization, you should try that), American Spectator (sort of an NR with different authors), Commentary (Jewishy) but written by Professory types with very interesting articles about the ME, same with Chronicles (not Jewishy but professorial with articles about our country, from these publication's lists of recommended reading I glean those books that may be of interest. Have you ever read anything by Thomas Sowell, he has written some very good stuff, at least in my narrow mind ;-). & of course I read the local papers with the Seattle Times ranking as not quite as left leaning as the NY Times but trying. For entertainment it's SI or a sports contest, how are the Jackrabbits doing this year, I am only able to follow them on ESPN or the sports pages.

& of course, on this forum there are some bright folks whose posts are worthy of a read :idea:, but not that many from your side of the fence, which is too bad. On certain but limited subjects most have something to offer, some just don't know when to turn it off :confused:.

charly_t
01-18-2013, 10:55 PM
Ha! My old dog is deaf... Unless I say... "You hungry?" She hears that every damn time!

Funny. Sounds like a human male that I am well aquainted with. VBEG

road kill
01-20-2013, 07:57 AM
Here's one;

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/whoops-politifacts-lie-year-turns-out-be-true_696223.html




Fiat sees at least 100,000 Jeeps made in China in 2014


01/18/2013


By Stephen Jewkes and Stefano Rebaudo

MILAN | Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:51pm GMT

(Reuters) - Fiat (FIA.MI) and its U.S. unit Chrysler expect to roll out at least 100,000 Jeeps in China when production starts in 2014 as they seek to catch up with rivals in the world's biggest car market.

Output could double, the Italian carmaker's Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne, without giving a precise timeframe.

Chrysler, in which Fiat has a 58.5 percent stake, said on Tuesday it had agreed to make Jeeps in China with Guangzhou Automobile Group (601238.SS).

Fiat is trying to offset a slump in European sales by targeting fast growing markets in Asia and Latin America. The Italian firm and Chrysler lag far behind other foreign carmakers in China, where consumers bought 19.3 million cars last year.

"We expect production of around 100,000 Jeeps per year which is expandable to 200,000," Marchionne, who is also CEO of Chrysler, said on the sidelines of a conference, adding production could start in 18 months.

General Motors (GM.N) and Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) both sold more than 2.8 million cars in China last year, and together accounted for over 29 percent of total vehicle sales in China, according to IHS Global Insight.

Jeep, Chrysler and Fiat, by contrast, sold just over 60,000 cars in China in 2012.

Since Fiat helped rescue Chrysler from bankruptcy in 2009, the U.S. No.3 automaker has turned into the main profit driver for the combined group thanks to strong U.S. demand.

Marchionne said he expected a court decision on the pricing of an option it has exercised to buy a 3.3 percent stake held by a union healthcare trust in the U.S. carmaker in the first quarter.

Under Chrysler's bailout agreement Fiat is able to exercise call options to purchase portions of the 41.5 percent stake held by the VEBA healthcare trust.

However, the two have been locked in a courtroom battle after VEBA balked at the $139.7 million price tag Fiat offered to buy a 3.3 percent tranche of Chrysler shares last July, saying it was too low.

In January Fiat filed to buy another 3.3 percent tranche of Chrysler from the VEBA.

Asked about the outlook for the global car market this year, Marchionne said he did not expect any meaningful recovery in Europe, where demand for new cars fell to a 17-year low in 2012.

"In North America, in Latin America and in China sales will rise," he added.

At 1307 GMT Fiat shares were up 4 percent at 4.4 euros. The shares had risen before Marchionne's comments.

(Writing by Silvia Aloisi; editing by James Jukwey)



I wonder if anyone will read these and comment??

Buzz????
Blackstone?????