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JDogger
01-28-2013, 09:11 PM
Guns and ammo seem to be in short supply these days.
The question arises... these recent FFL purchases have all been well documented. Unlike many of the purchases and trades we might have made in the past.
We might own shadow guns from the past. But recent purchases have been recorded. If as many fear, a round up happens...these most recent records will be the ones accessed.
If the ATF, the FBI, your local LE or NG shows up and demands your recorded firearms, will you fire on them?
Will your AR match the fire power of an Apache helicopter? Or even your Sheriffs Dept?

Maybe it's time to start electing people who do the will of the people..JD

Gerry Clinchy
01-28-2013, 10:19 PM
Tyrants and despots always say that is what they will do ... until they have the power to whatever they want. Better to elect people who will uphold the Constitution.

JDogger
01-28-2013, 10:36 PM
Tyrants and despots always say that is what they will do ... until they have the power to whatever they want. Better to elect people who will uphold the Constitution.

Been to an airport lately?? JD

BonMallari
01-29-2013, 02:50 AM
Nope , I will not put my family or loved ones in the line of fire in a fight I cant possibly win

road kill
01-29-2013, 05:56 AM
I will do what I have always done.
I will abide by the law.
I am 61+ years old, how can I stop the authorities with a 12 gauge and a 30.06 bolt action??

I have said many times, the end game is not removing weapons from criminals, it is to disarm the citizenry.
I have also stated that the time will come when the progressives hate us for letting them have their way.

Those days are closer than ever before.
These people were elected, some of you pro 2nd amendment folks extremely upset over this issue voted for them.


It's GUT-CHECK TIME!!!!

BTW--JDogger, great thread!

Pete
01-29-2013, 06:54 AM
I will do what I have always done.
I will abide by the law.
I am 61+ years old, how can I stop the authorities with a 12 gauge and a 30.06 bolt action??

I have said many times, the end game is not removing weapons from criminals, it is to disarm the citizenry.
I have also stated that the time will come when the progressives hate us for letting them have their way.

Those days are closer than ever before.
These people were elected, some of you pro 2nd amendment folks extremely upset over this issue voted for them.


It's GUT-CHECK TIME!!!!

BTW--JDogger, great thread!

Stan
If its unconstitutional then it is unlawful,, so confiscating guns in this country will always be a crime. Just because some law maker makes a law doesn't make it legal.
Over night a law like that will make millions outlaws . And out laws do what out laws do. Confiscating guns is equal to a declaration of war. At that point a good man will have to choose to go with the flow,,,or take a stand against all odds or go underground,,,,,, A 30 million man army dressed like the general populace is a force to be reckoned with. Just look at the goat herders ,,, don't mess with them.

road kill
01-29-2013, 07:42 AM
Stan
If its unconstitutional then it is unlawful,, so confiscating guns in this country will always be a crime. Just because some law maker makes a law doesn't make it legal.
Over night a law like that will make millions outlaws . And out laws do what out laws do. Confiscating guns is equal to a declaration of war. At that point a good man will have to choose to go with the flow,,,or take a stand against all odds or go underground,,,,,, A 30 million man army dressed like the general populace is a force to be reckoned with. Just look at the goat herders ,,, don't mess with them.

Ironically, millions of outlaws will be made law abiding citizens over night by legalizing drugs and those here illegally!!

Do you think for one second those in the Whitehouse aren't sitting back in private laughing at the useful idiots?
Talk about going along to get along?
What do you think will happen when the Supreme Court is dominated by secular progressives?

Ultimately, there will be 2 classes.

The Government or "Ruling Class" and the workers.

Karl is very proud!!!

Of course, we know that can't happen.
There will be (and is) 3 classes.

The Ruling Class (Government) living off the workers.
The Workers, paying the freight.
The non-workers, living off the workers.
That basically already exists, it will just "PROGRESS" to the targeted end.

I have been in a couple fights (have you?).
Maybe by your standards I am not a "Good Man" if I don't take up arms and fight back.
OK, I guess I will live with that.
I will probably obey the laws.
We are a nation of laws, it is a disgrace that we currently ignore them.

I know who I am and what I have done, and fighting this is beyond just me.
The mindset of those that put these people in office must be changed......good luck with that!:cool:

As far as the Constitution goes, "at this point, does it really matter?":confused:
I think it is clear for anyone who is willing to look objectively the disdain this administration has for that document.

mudminnow
01-29-2013, 08:00 AM
what the feds would love is another Waco. Don't give them one. There is no good reason to fight back if they say let me see your guns. Be smart and hide them well or say you sold them a while back to a guy in a wal mart parking lot. Or have a few you are not sad to depart with and take them to the gunsafe that only has those and give them away. But right now i would say reacting with violence is not the smartest way because the government is great at violence. They can kill 16 year old american citizens without trial and feel good about it. Non violence is the answer on this one.

zeus3925
01-29-2013, 08:09 AM
Lots of talk lately about taking up arms against the government. What you are advocating is treason. The definition is right there in the Constitution that you scholars all revere.

A state has an inherent right to protect itself. Modern armies have an incredible degree of lethality. Armed insurrection has little chance against a modern state.

And what would a your post insurrection country look like if your rebellion should bear some fruit. It could end up divided into a multitude of little fiefdoms each ruled by a warlord without any sense of liberty or it might look like the disorganized chaos of a Somalia.

The successful insurrections have occurred without a citizenry taking up arms. Ghandi brought down the might of the British Empire while his followers were unarmed. Lech Walesa lead a movement that eventually brought down the Soviet Empire without resorting to a six shooter. The Mandelas brought down the a racist regime in South Africa.

road kill
01-29-2013, 08:12 AM
Lots of talk lately about taking up arms against the government. What you are advocating is treason. The definition is right there in the Constitution that you scholars all revere.

A state has an inherent right to protect itself. Modern armies have an incredible degree of lethality. Armed insurrection has little chance against a modern state.

And what would a your post insurrection country look like if your rebellion should bear some fruit. It could end up divided into a multitude of little fiefdoms each ruled by a warlord without any sense of liberty or disorganized chaos like Somalia.

The successful insurrections have occurred without a citizenry taking up arms. Ghandi brought down the might of the British Empire while his followers were unarmed. Lech Walesa lead a movement that eventually brought down the Soviet Empire without resorting to a six shooter. The Mandelas brought down the a racist regime in South Africa.

Exactly zeuss, look what Obama has done to America without firng a shot!!!

Pete
01-29-2013, 08:22 AM
Stan
Why would you think I don't consider you a good man. You misinterpreted what I wrote. Your a good man from every thing I've read over the years.

I think most here are good men. There are different degree's of good. A man who lives with honor and integrity being top priority is among the best of good men. No matter what his worldly position in life is.

I have only been in fist fights as a youngster.
However I have witnessed many people die,,, To many for an average citizen,,both violently, accidentally I have failed trying to save someones life,,, I have had guns stuck to my head,,,to my chest,,and have been surrounded by 6 or 8 police officers with their guns drawn in close proximity to my head and body. That's a lot for a law abiding citizen,,, I have also witnessed "phenomenon" many times over,,,some of which most through the history of man has probably never seen.
Pete

road kill
01-29-2013, 08:24 AM
Stan
Why would you think I don't consider you a good man. You misinterpreted what I wrote. Your a good man from every thing I've read over the years.

I think most here are good men. There are different degree's of good. A man who lives with honor and integrity being top priority is among the best of good men. No matter what his worldly position in life is.

I have only been in fist fights as a youngster.
However I have witnessed many people die,,, To many for an average citizen,,both violently, accidentally I have failed trying to save someones life,,, I have had guns stuck to my head,,,to my chest,,and have been surrounded by 6 or 8 police officers with their guns drawn in close proximity to my head and body. That's a lot for a law abiding citizen,,, I have also witnessed "phenomenon" many times over,,,some of which most through the history of man has probably never seen.
Pete
Of all I have lived through, that is the worst.
THE WORST!!!!
"What if I had only.............."

Of course, the best is saving one!!

THE BEST!!!

zeus3925
01-29-2013, 08:43 AM
Exactly zeuss, look what Obama has done to America without firng a shot!!!

Nothing that was done without the consent of Congress.

huntinman
01-29-2013, 08:56 AM
Nothing that was done without the consent of Congress.

Sarge, his Ex orders are done without the consent of Congress

Franco
01-29-2013, 08:58 AM
If the 2nd Amendment is trashed, the 1st Amendment won't be far behind it.

mngundog
01-29-2013, 09:39 AM
Nothing that was done without the consent of Congress.
This man's family would probably disagree with you, it was Obama that ordered the cover-up of his death.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/10/03/us/BORDER-2/BORDER-2-articleInline.jpg

mudminnow
01-29-2013, 10:10 AM
If the 2nd Amendment is trashed, the 1st Amendment won't be far behind it.

The republicans have already trashed the 4th amendment, now its time for the dems to trash the second, and the they can show their bipartisanship by getting rid of the fourth

Gerry Clinchy
01-29-2013, 01:33 PM
A state has an inherent right to protect itself. Modern armies have an incredible degree of lethality. Armed insurrection has little chance against a modern state.

But didn't the Declaration of Independence make a case for the fact that sometimes the people have a human right to resist an oppressive govt?


The successful insurrections have occurred without a citizenry taking up arms. Ghandi brought down the might of the British Empire while his followers were unarmed. Lech Walesa lead a movement that eventually brought down the Soviet Empire without resorting to a six shooter. The Mandelas brought down the a racist regime in South Africa.
There was a lot of bloodshed involved in these insurrections overall. In the end, too, there were other world powers who were in support of the protestors v. their govt. (Guess there is some support for the people having a human right to resist an oppressive govt?)

Who is left in the world that would support any US insurrectionists? I'm guessing many in the ME would be dancing with glee, joined by the Russians. Probably France would not have lent support to the insurrectionists in the US Revolution if not part of their desire to foil Britain, their perennial foe. Didn't work out too well for the French, who, later, experienced its own bloody revolution.

mudminnow
01-29-2013, 01:47 PM
Before there is insurrection anywhere. I think folks need to encourage their states to nullify and support secession if need be.

Uncle Bill
01-29-2013, 03:27 PM
Nothing that was done without the consent of Congress.

Spoken like a true Obama toady, with his head sticking where the sun don't shine. Can you explain the current fiasco in the NLRB? Or doesn't that count in your socialistic view?

UB

BonMallari
01-29-2013, 04:09 PM
Before there is insurrection anywhere. I think folks need to encourage their states to nullify and support secession if need be.

Secession ? really? nothing sparks a civil war like trying to secede from the United States...there isnt ONE state including Texas that would last 5 minutes in trying to secede...You cant secede without an Army or even a leader, none of which any state has...trying to secede gives the Feds exactly what you dont want them to have, the impetus to fire upon the American public

sick lids
01-29-2013, 05:16 PM
I think it is funny when people assume that the whole military will side with the government if there was an insurgency. Being all volunteers from the same general public I would think that there would exist the same divide there also. Another thought is that as the government wages war against the citizens it will need outside help as it will be waging war against its biggest supporters. Dose our government have any friends that it doesn't buy with our money? We would be the laughing stock of the world.

And homeland security is surely watching this thread with some of the order that key words have been placed.. welcome to rtf!

BonMallari
01-29-2013, 05:44 PM
I think it is funny when people assume that the whole military will side with the government if there was an insurgency. Being all volunteers from the same general public I would think that there would exist the same divide there also. Another thought is that as the government wages war against the citizens it will need outside help as it will be waging war against its biggest supporters. Dose our government have any friends that it doesn't buy with our money? We would be the laughing stock of the world.

And homeland security is surely watching this thread with some of the order that key words have been placed.. welcome to rtf!

Not as long as the incompetent ex governor of Arizona is at the helm, she cant/wont even protect her own state from the invasion of illegal undocumented aliens

zeus3925
01-29-2013, 06:10 PM
Sarge, his Ex orders are done without the consent of Congress

Read the Ex orders. There is nothing in them that is new law. he did not tresspass on the purview of Congress

JDogger
01-29-2013, 06:12 PM
I think it is funny when people assume that the whole military will side with the government if there was an insurgency. Being all volunteers from the same general public I would think that there would exist the same divide there also. Another thought is that as the government wages war against the citizens it will need outside help as it will be waging war against its biggest supporters. Dose our government have any friends that it doesn't buy with our money? We would be the laughing stock of the world.

And homeland security is surely watching this thread with some of the order that key words have been placed.. welcome to rtf!

I think you just earned a place on a watch list...:cool:

zeus3925
01-29-2013, 06:15 PM
But didn't the Declaration of Independence make a case for the fact that sometimes the people have a human right to resist an oppressive govt?

Yes it did. But, then a state has an inherent right to protect itself against insurrection. My point is, if it is a rebellion of arms against a modern state, it is unlikely to succeed.

sick lids
01-29-2013, 07:30 PM
I think you just earned a place on a watch list...:cool:

lol... Yes I have a file,I am a junior to my father who had some clearances, and I have worked in some federal buildings. They have photos, finger prints, many references, and who knows what else.

Funny story, I was working in the US Marshals offices and on the wall was a most wanted photo of a man who had a eerie resemblance to me. I walked up to the desk and pointed out the picture and asked why they wanted me? Gun was drawn and tool box dropped, we all had a laugh at that.

mudminnow
01-30-2013, 07:26 AM
Secession ? really? nothing sparks a civil war like trying to secede from the United States...there isnt ONE state including Texas that would last 5 minutes in trying to secede...You cant secede without an Army or even a leader, none of which any state has...trying to secede gives the Feds exactly what you dont want them to have, the impetus to fire upon the American public

Secession is very peaceful actually. The shots fired upon fort sumter were in self defense because the North kept stocking up supplies and ammunition in it for what looked like an offensive through the charleston harbor. The last straw was when a large ship that was posing a a civilian ship was found out to be carrying munitions and troops was headed to sumter. Lincoln wanted a reason to attack the south (not unlike FDR and the japanese) becasue most folks in the north did not care about secession.

I doubt if a state seceeded today, that there would be another civil war. A message needs to be sent to washington that we need to get back before 1861 in our mindset with powerful states and limited government. I think the only way the Feds will understand this is if they stop getting money from us.

Dustin D
01-30-2013, 07:51 AM
Guns and ammo seem to be in short supply these days.
The question arises... these recent FFL purchases have all been well documented. Unlike many of the purchases and trades we might have made in the past.
We might own shadow guns from the past. But recent purchases have been recorded. If as many fear, a round up happens...these most recent records will be the ones accessed.
If the ATF, the FBI, your local LE or NG shows up and demands your recorded firearms, will you fire on them?
Will your AR match the fire power of an Apache helicopter? Or even your Sheriffs Dept?

Maybe it's time to start electing people who do the will of the people..JD


All guns are shadow guns unless you live in a State that Registers all firearms.

Example; I buy a Rifle from Academy this morning. At lunch time a friend likes it so much he offers me the price of the gun plus $200. I sell it to him. I no longer have the gun so who cares what paper work says I do.

Basically as long as Private Firearms Transactions continue to be legal, saying "I sold it to John down the street" will continue to be a valid excuse of why you no longer have that firearm.

Now if they are attempting to do away with this by passing the 'Private backgrounds check'. BUT! it still won't matter b/c they have no way to know who owns what and when. Plus there's no law against giving a gun away.

Either way these are things I would consider completely unconstitutional and would feel no moral obligation to abide by. Sadly as a long LAW ABDING Citizen, it seems as if the time is approaching where we will be forced to become slaves to the law are have to step outside the box in order to protect ourselves.

The Private Background Check sounds like a good idea, but it's just another step towards identifying who has what. Another strike at privacy under the guise of safety.

http://www.changingworld.com/catalog/images/CW-012.jpg


Tell me again how that T.J. thought that the 2nd Amendment was for Hunting and Personal Defense.

http://i.imgur.com/8C7Rk.jpg