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road kill
02-04-2013, 02:28 PM
And it is not very nice!


Ron PaulVerified ‏@RonPaul 2h 'Chris Kyle's death seems to confirm that "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword."
Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn't make sense



https://twitter.com/RonPaul/status/298477312876355585

Franco
02-04-2013, 02:45 PM
That would be a quote from the Christian Bible that is often quoted by people who seek peace rather than violent conflict. Relevations, maybe?

I have my doubts about the Bible but, what is you beef with the Bible?

I have to agree that treating PTSD's on an active firing range does not make sense.

Dustin D
02-04-2013, 02:54 PM
uh...wow....

BonMallari
02-04-2013, 02:55 PM
here is the exact verse from the book of REVELATIONS 13:10 KJV


The phrase is found in the Christian Book of Revelation, 13:10: "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." (Rev.13:10 KJV)


as I posted on the other thread, it has not been taken nicely by those that follow his tweets

Franco
02-04-2013, 03:01 PM
here is the exact verse from the book of REVELATIONS 13:10 KJV




as I posted on the other thread, it has not been taken nicely by those that follow his tweets

Like most, people only believe in the parts of their Bible that are convenient for them.

Dustin D
02-04-2013, 03:02 PM
Actually it's Matt: 26:52;

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Dustin D
02-04-2013, 03:06 PM
Like most, people only believe in the parts of their Bible that are convenient for them.

Of course, b/c most people aren't Christians.

Mattew 7:12-14


12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

road kill
02-04-2013, 03:12 PM
I see it as a vulgar, crass comment about one who served his country well.

He maybe deserves a little more respect.
I do not see how you can frame what Dr Ron Paul said as Christian.

I predict RP will be back pedaling, HARD, leaving Franco laying on the sword!!!:cool:

Franco
02-04-2013, 03:23 PM
I see it as a vulgar, crass comment about one who served his country well.

He maybe deserves a little more respect.
I do not see how you can frame what Dr Ron Paul said as Christian.

I predict RP will be back pedaling, HARD, leaving Franco laying on the sword!!!:cool:

RP does not back-peddle and never has.

What RP said comes straight out of the Bible! One either believes in the Bible or they don't. RP is a man of convictions and he lives by that book and that is why he is not perfect in my book!

Like I said, when it comes to being a Christian, most are what I call convenient Christians. Those are the ones that only live by the parts of the Bible that are convenient to them and ignore the parts that are not. RP believes into the whole book.

RK, how will your God judge Chris Kyle?

smillerdvm
02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
I see it as a vulgar, crass comment about one who served his country well.

He maybe deserves a little more respect.
I do not see how you can frame what Dr Ron Paul said as Christian.

I predict RP will be back pedaling, HARD, leaving Franco laying on the sword!!!:cool:

Don't recall any similar outrage expressed by you and other "FAIR & BALANCED members of the echo chamber regarding any outrage expressed about vulgar crass comments made about John Kerry or Max Cleland or any one else who doesn't drink your flavor of Kool-Aid

road kill
02-04-2013, 03:35 PM
RP does not back-peddle and never has.

What RP said comes straight out of the Bible! One either believes in the Bible or they don't. RP is a man of convictions and he lives by that book and that is why he is not perfect in my book!

Like I said, when it comes to being a Christian, most are what I call convenient Christians. Those are the ones that only live by the parts of the Bible that are convenient to them and ignore the parts that are not. RP believes into the whole book.

RK, how will your God judge Chris Kyle?
I have no idea, do you?
I believe that is between Chris and God.

road kill
02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
Don't recall any similar outrage expressed by you and other "FAIR & BALANCED members of the echo chamber regarding any outrage expressed about vulgar crass comments made about John Kerry or Max Cleland or any one else who doesn't drink your flavor of Kool-Aid

It comes in flavors?
Which flavor is your favorite??:D

Franco
02-04-2013, 03:43 PM
I have no idea, do you?

Having read the Christian Bible several times, I would think he would be condemed.

I don't remember whose quote this is but it goes like this;

"Some soldiers kill or be killed to win the day. Other soldiers just enjoy the killing."

I am not condeming Chris Kyle. But, when one lives by the sword...

road kill
02-04-2013, 03:46 PM
Having read the Christian Bible several times, I would think he would be condemed.

I don't remember whose quote this is but it goes like this;

"Some soldiers kill or be killed to win the day. Other soldiers just enjoy the killing."
So in one post, you know what God (who you don't even believe in) is thinking and what was in Chris' heart!!

Interesting...........

Dustin D
02-04-2013, 03:51 PM
So in one post, you know what God (who you don't even believe in) is thinking and what was in Chris' heart!!

Interesting...........

Well of course....I mean he has read all 31,000+ verses a few times ;)

Franco
02-04-2013, 03:52 PM
So in one post, you know what God (who you don't even believe in) is thinking and what was in Chris' heart!!

Interesting...........

I know well what is the the book that represents the Christian God! Trying reading it sometime as it is very clear about killing.

Like I said in post #13, I am not condeming Chris Kyle. However, it seems that there are some Christians willing to over look their Bible and condem Ron Paul for believing in the Bible.

Golddogs
02-04-2013, 03:52 PM
I see it as a vulgar, crass comment about one who served his country well.

He maybe deserves a little more respect.
I do not see how you can frame what Dr Ron Paul said as Christian.

I predict RP will be back pedaling, HARD, leaving Franco laying on the sword!!!:cool:

Believing and saying are two different things. His comment ( tweet) was cruel and gave no thought to the widow and children left behind nor the help he was trying to give a damaged vet. He did a job his country asked him to do and in no way shape or form should be disparaged for doing so.

Pretty Disgusting of RP Regards

Franco
02-04-2013, 03:53 PM
Well of course....I mean he has read all 31,000+ verses a few times ;)


No, just the Old and New Testament.

The Old Testament is must better reading.

smillerdvm
02-04-2013, 03:54 PM
It comes in flavors?
Which flavor is your favorite??:D

You start threads and then run when confronted by facts. Or try to be cute and divert attention away from the issue.
Dont be confused into thinking that when others of your ilk in the echo chamber chortle and join in with your obsfucation that you have made a point.

What you echo chamber denizens cant get through your thick heads is reality. You had yourself convinced that Romney would prevail, because every one in your world thought the same as you did. There is a much bigger world out there than old white men. Obama could have easily been beaten by a decent campaign strategy. But you echo chamber boys aint gonna win another national election until you pull your head out of the sand.

The lack of thought processes and unquestioning acceptance of what you are spoon fed by your chosen media outlets and Party Rhetoric works well in your homogonous echo chamber; but not so much in the real world
You really dont understand the concept of debating issues and staying on point do you. The Carl Roves and other string puller manipulative types consider non critical thinkers to be putty in their fat little hands. Until we the voting public wake up the Reps & Dems are just going to continue screwing us and the country over for their own special agenda, until we start voting & standing on principal: NOT PARTY AFFILIATION

mudminnow
02-04-2013, 03:57 PM
Franco, it is truth what Dr. Paul speaks and writes. I would not have said it like that, nor do I think he actually tweeted it. And it seems to me like you think you have a grasp of systematic theology, but from your posts here and in the other thread you have a lot to learn about what he character of the God of the bible. If God wasn't merciful we would know it, and if our judgement was based on our works, we wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell

road kill
02-04-2013, 03:58 PM
You start threads and then run when confronted by facts. Or try to be cute and divert attention away from the issue.
Dont be confused into thinking that when others of your ilk in the echo chamber chortle and join in with your obsfucation that you have made a point.

What you echo chamber denizens cant get through your thick heads is reality. You had yourself convinced that Romney would prevail, because every one in your world thought the same as you did. There is a much bigger world out there than old white men. Obama could have easily been beaten by a decent campaign strategy. But you echo chamber boys aint gonna win another national election until you pull your head out of the sand.

The lack of thought processes and unquestioning acceptance of what you are spoon fed by your chosen media outlets and Party Rhetoric works well in your homogonous echo chamber; but not so much in the real world
You really dont understand the concept of debating issues and staying on point do you. The Carl Roves and other string puller manipulative types consider non critical thinkers to be putty in their fat little hands. Until we the voting public wake up the Reps & Dems are just going to continue screwing us and the country over for their own special agenda, until we start voting & standing on principal: NOT PARTY AFFILIATION

Could you possibly control your anger and stay on topic?

Ron Pauls tweet about Chris Kyle's death.

Golddogs
02-04-2013, 03:58 PM
"Some soldiers kill or be killed to win the day. Other soldiers just enjoy the killing."

I am not condeming Chris Kyle. But, when one lives by the sword...

Franco,

I admire a lot of what you post and your passion. But RP was way off on his comment.
I suggest you try to find the interview Chris Kyle did with Lester Holt on NBC. In it he focused on the lives he saved on overwatch, not the lives he took while saving others.

Golddogs
02-04-2013, 04:02 PM
If God wasn't merciful we would know it,

Have you not seen Honey Boo Boo ? :D

mudminnow
02-04-2013, 04:04 PM
Ha, that shows he has a sense of humor

smillerdvm
02-04-2013, 04:09 PM
Could you possibly control your anger and stay on topic?

Ron Pauls tweet about Chris Kyle's death.

More passive aggressive obfuscation from the Wizard of Wisconscin

What scares you the most? That if you wade into the deep end of the pool your wife may have to run out here and bring you your floaties; or that nobody will recognize her?

Franco
02-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Franco,

I admire a lot of what you post and your passion. But RP was way off on his comment.
I suggest you try to find the interview Chris Kyle did with Lester Holt on NBC. In it he focused on the lives he saved on overwatch, not the lives he took while saving others.

That is why I said I am not condeming Chris Kyle. I understand what Chris Kyle had to do. If RP is at fault, it is for not mincing his words and for being direct. Like some Christians, he takes the Bible literally. However, I like RP inspite of him being so beholding to the Bible because of where he stands on issues. It is his stance on issues that has me looking past his Christian beliefs;-)

huntinman
02-04-2013, 04:51 PM
That is why I said I am not condeming Chris Kyle. I understand what Chris Kyle had to do. If RP is at fault, it is for not mincing his words and for being direct. Like some Christians, he takes the Bible literally. However, I like RP inspite of him being so beholding to the Bible because of where he stands on issues. It is his stance on issues that has me looking past his Christian beliefs;-)

He is a sick old coot and you are trying your best to justify his bad behaviour... which is just as sick under the circumstances.

BonMallari
02-04-2013, 04:54 PM
More passive aggressive obfuscation from the Wizard of Wisconscin

What scares you the most? That if you wade into the deep end of the pool your wife may have to run out here and bring you your floaties; or that nobody will recognize her?

lets keep other family members out of the discussion please, it has no bearing on the subject and shows no class

huntinman
02-04-2013, 04:59 PM
More passive aggressive obfuscation from the Wizard of Wisconscin

What scares you the most? That if you wade into the deep end of the pool your wife may have to run out here and bring you your floaties; or that nobody will recognize her?

You are going over the line with your lunatic posts to RK. Keep his spouse out of your rants please. Seems to me you have some real deep seated issues, especially with strong, confident men.

You talk about passive agression. you need to reread some of the tripe you post.

mudminnow
02-04-2013, 05:01 PM
He is a sick old coot and you are trying your best to justify his bad behaviour... which is just as sick under the circumstances.

I like Ron Paul and will still like and respect him after this comment(which I might of not said that way). I do not require perfection of folks I respect, just honesty. Call me stupid but the only thing he did was use a bible verse and question The PTSD treatment. America has an idolatry problem with its veterans. I love them, but they are just like me and(since Vietnam) volunteered for their job. It is awful that this man was murdered but no more awful than the kids being murdered in Chicago by gangs or Pakistan by drones

huntinman
02-04-2013, 05:11 PM
I like Ron Paul and will still like and respect him after this comment(which I might of not said that way). I do not require perfection of folks I respect, just honesty. Call me stupid but the only thing he did was use a bible verse and question The PTSD treatment. America has an idolatry problem with its veterans. I love them, but they are just like me and(since Vietnam) volunteered for their job. It is awful that this man was murdered but no more awful than the kids being murdered in Chicago by gangs or Pakistan by drones

OK...:rolleyes:

achiro
02-04-2013, 05:20 PM
Wow there are some freaking loons on this board. I mean out of their God forsaken minds loons.
Franco, you really should go back to posting as your dog because you were much more likable back then. Now every time you post I just wonder if I should ask hard it was to wire up Internet down in that bunker of yours and if you could please release that little boy back to his parents.
Turning what RP said into a theology discussion is stupid. The outrage isn't about a Bible passage it's because he basically said that the man deserved to die that way and that's a very stupid thing to say.

huntinman
02-04-2013, 05:24 PM
Wow there are some freaking loons on this board. I mean out of their God forsaken minds loons.
Franco, you really should go back to posting as your dog because you were much more likable back then. Now every time you post I just wonder if I should ask hard it was to wire up Internet down in that bunker of yours and if you could please release that little boy back to his parents.
Turning what RP said into a theology discussion is stupid. The outrage isn't about a Bible passage it's because he basically said that the man deserved to die that way and that's a very stupid thing to say.

Bingo.... Right on the money.

starjack
02-04-2013, 05:49 PM
Wow there are some freaking loons on this board. I mean out of their God forsaken minds loons.
Franco, you really should go back to posting as your dog because you were much more likable back then. Now every time you post I just wonder if I should ask hard it was to wire up Internet down in that bunker of yours and if you could please release that little boy back to his parents.
Turning what RP said into a theology discussion is stupid. The outrage isn't about a Bible passage it's because he basically said that the man deserved to die that way and that's a very stupid thing to say.Just heard on the news the boy is safe the wacko is dead.

Franco
02-04-2013, 05:51 PM
Wow there are some freaking loons on this board. I mean out of their God forsaken minds loons.
Franco, you really should go back to posting as your dog because you were much more likable back then. Now every time you post I just wonder if I should ask hard it was to wire up Internet down in that bunker of yours and if you could please release that little boy back to his parents.
Turning what RP said into a theology discussion is stupid. The outrage isn't about a Bible passage it's because he basically said that the man deserved to die that way and that's a very stupid thing to say.

Maybe you should go back to looking at other men's butts!

RP is against war, period. He used a Bible quote to back up what he thinks.

Why is that so hard for the RTF echo chamber to undertsand? He didn't say anything about the man deserving to die. The echo chamber must have a reading disability!

Marvin S
02-04-2013, 06:48 PM
America has an idolatry problem with its veterans. I love them, but they are just like me and(since Vietnam) volunteered for their job.

America has not always loved their veterans. I think of those sent to Vietnam & being spat upon at return. Yet many Americans accept that folks can denigrate veterans & still go on to fame & fortune ie; John Kerry & Hanoi Jane.

IMO, the volunteer service has created a mercenary group, unlike the draftees of the pre-Vietnam era.


Wow there are some freaking loons on this board. I mean out of their God forsaken minds loons.
Franco, you really should go back to posting as your dog because you were much more likable back then. Now every time you post I just wonder if I should ask hard it was to wire up Internet down in that bunker of yours and if you could please release that little boy back to his parents.
Turning what RP said into a theology discussion is stupid. The outrage isn't about a Bible passage it's because he basically said that the man deserved to die that way and that's a very stupid thing to say.

Russ - that's one of the funnier posts I've seen made on POTUS, unfortunately it is also one of the more honest ones ;-).

Franco
02-04-2013, 07:07 PM
America has not always loved their veterans. I think of those sent to Vietnam & being spat upon at return. Yet many Americans accept that folks can denigrate veterans & still go on to fame & fortune ie; John Kerry & Hanoi Jane.

IMO, the volunteer service has created a mercenary group, unlike the draftees of the pre-Vietnam era.



Russ - that's one of the funnier posts I've seen made on POTUS, unfortunately it is also one of the more honest ones ;-).

Like I said on another thread last week, "you aren't capable of recognizing honesty"!

You accused RP of lining his pockets and had nothing, zero, zilich to back it up. You prefer your establishment Repubs. None of your Establishment guys have ever turned down Federal money unlike RP! And, just look at where your guys have gotten us as a nation! No wonder you like living in the past, you know little of the present.

Marvin S
02-04-2013, 08:03 PM
Like I said on another thread last week, "you aren't capable of recognizing honesty"!

You accused RP of lining his pockets and had nothing, zero, zilich to back it up. You prefer your establishment Repubs. None of your Establishment guys have ever turned down Federal money unlike RP! And, just look at where your guys have gotten us as a nation! No wonder you like living in the past, you know little of the present.

Franco - I know you're searching for something but I think Russ' post is freeeeeking hilarious :BIG:, :confused:. I don't believe I can improve on that :o.


Wow there are some freaking loons on this board. I mean out of their God forsaken minds loons.
Franco, you really should go back to posting as your dog because you were much more likable back then. Now every time you post I just wonder if I should ask hard it was to wire up Internet down in that bunker of yours and if you could please release that little boy back to his parents.
Turning what RP said into a theology discussion is stupid. The outrage isn't about a Bible passage it's because he basically said that the man deserved to die that way and that's a very stupid thing to say.

Franco
02-04-2013, 08:29 PM
Of couse you would Marv, you've been out of touch with reality for some time now.

mudminnow
02-04-2013, 08:33 PM
America has not always loved their veterans. I think of those sent to Vietnam & being spat upon at return. Yet many Americans accept that folks can denigrate veterans & still go on to fame & fortune ie; John Kerry & Hanoi Jane.

IMO, the volunteer service has created a mercenary group, unlike the draftees of the ..,.

I totally agree, the Vietnam vets were not idolized by any means. The reason is that it was tough for the country to get behind a war that felt pointless to them. I love our soldiers so much that I only want them to fight to defend our country, not take another over.

I have felt that a rise in the PTSD has been due to the fact that we haven't had a "just war" since WW1. Since then the government has been more and more bold forcing our soldiers to strike civilian targets with ground, air, and drone attacks. That has to weigh heavily on our men and women. Our interventionist policy uses our soldiers for political gain under the banner of a war on terror.

I voted for W and McCain, I used to believe war was something that is always needed if the US is involved. But since Afghanistan part two I have rethought our views and realized that we are just starting an endless war in the Middle East. Those folks are all crazy and we are not going to fix things. Here we are supporting rebels in Syria that are burning Christians and their homes to the ground.

All this to say I love our troops, and blindly supporting our leaders while they send our troops into conflicts around the world turns them into mercenaries or martyrs of the statists. I want them to defend our freedom under clear direction of a clear purpose. I would say the biggest attacks on our freedoms are stateside, not in the ME

achiro
02-04-2013, 08:56 PM
I have felt that a rise in the PTSD has been due to the fact that we haven't had a "just war" since WW1. Since then the government has been more and more bold forcing our soldiers to strike civilian targets with ground, air, and drone attacks. That has to weigh heavily on our men and women. Our interventionist policy uses our soldiers for political gain under the banner of a war on terror.

Come up with this all on your own? I'm not even going to comment, just want you to read it a couple of times, think about it some more, maybe read it again, then get back to me.

duk4me
02-04-2013, 09:05 PM
I totally agree, the Vietnam vets were not idolized by any means. The reason is that it was tough for the country to get behind a war that felt pointless to them. I love our soldiers so much that I only want them to fight to defend our country, not take another over.

I have felt that a rise in the PTSD has been due to the fact that we haven't had a "just war" since WW1. Since then the government has been more and more bold forcing our soldiers to strike civilian targets with ground, air, and drone attacks. That has to weigh heavily on our men and women. Our interventionist policy uses our soldiers for political gain under the banner of a war on terror.

I voted for W and McCain, I used to believe war was something that is always needed if the US is involved. But since Afghanistan part two I have rethought our views and realized that we are just starting an endless war in the Middle East. Those folks are all crazy and we are not going to fix things. Here we are supporting rebels in Syria that are burning Christians and their homes to the ground.

All this to say I love our troops, and blindly supporting our leaders while they send our troops into conflicts around the world turns them into mercenaries or martyrs of the statists. I want them to defend our freedom under clear direction of a clear purpose. I would say the biggest attacks on our freedoms are stateside, not in the ME

Perhaps you mean WW 2?

mudminnow
02-04-2013, 09:08 PM
Yeah I thought what I different between our wars now and others. Why is this a new problem? We have killed so many more civilians in ww2 and beyond than we ever did in wars before. If that doesn't weigh on soldiers I don't know what would. We haven't had a clear objective in a war since ww2. If thy doesn't mess with a soldiers mind I must be stupid. Researching has showed me others think the same way and made me feel a bit less crazy although I know some folks are ready to call the looney wagon for me. I believe in the idea of American exceptionalism and believe it should be that way in warfare too. My grandad was a ww2 vet and probably had PTSD. But he used a therapist by the name of Jim beam. We should strive to only put our soldiers in harms way if they will actually be defending our freedom. That is the least we can do

mudminnow
02-04-2013, 09:09 PM
Perhaps you mean WW 2?

Perhaps you should look up definition of just war

BuddyJ
02-04-2013, 09:42 PM
You start threads and then run when confronted by facts. Or try to be cute and divert attention away from the issue.
Dont be confused into thinking that when others of your ilk in the echo chamber chortle and join in with your obsfucation that you have made a point.

What you echo chamber denizens cant get through your thick heads is reality. You had yourself convinced that Romney would prevail, because every one in your world thought the same as you did. There is a much bigger world out there than old white men. Obama could have easily been beaten by a decent campaign strategy. But you echo chamber boys aint gonna win another national election until you pull your head out of the sand.

The lack of thought processes and unquestioning acceptance of what you are spoon fed by your chosen media outlets and Party Rhetoric works well in your homogonous echo chamber; but not so much in the real world
You really dont understand the concept of debating issues and staying on point do you. The Carl Roves and other string puller manipulative types consider non critical thinkers to be putty in their fat little hands. Until we the voting public wake up the Reps & Dems are just going to continue screwing us and the country over for their own special agenda, until we start voting & standing on principal: NOT PARTY AFFILIATION

Do you roll your own?

Marvin S
02-04-2013, 09:58 PM
I totally agree, the Vietnam vets were not idolized by any means. The reason is that it was tough for the country to get behind a war that felt pointless to them. I love our soldiers so much that I only want them to fight to defend our country, not take another over.

Mudminnow - In my time in the service (I was in the AF, still remember my MOS & serial number though a long time ago, I have talked to General LeMay. For a 19 YO farm boy that's quite a throat lumper) I shared barracks accomodations with some fairly interesting folks. During Basic 5 guys plus our drill sergeant ended up in the brig for various infractions, that's out of 65 starters. While it got somewhat better during my tour of duty there were still those times when one had to wonder. I was twice sent by bus to pick up folks who had gone AWOL to deliver to Ft Leavenworth, not pleasant to be handcuffed to someone for 2 days on the bus while you are delivering them :). So I don't share your enthusiasm for those in uniform. Most of us did our tour of duty, used our GI Bill, been no further burden to our government & went our way. In fact, our education has probably been one of the greater returns the US has gotten for it's buck.

We have a local Vets Memorial here in our little town, recently done including bricks for vets. I put my date of service & branch on my brick but not my name, will not trade on being a vet. But I see folks using that status to benefit themselves. I'm a Legion member, our monthly newsletter has become a grab bag of what can we do for the vets.

I agree that our trip to the ME has been poorly done. Had we stayed in A'stan & finished the job, I think we would be better off. GW's nation building efforts were really a bad move. I could have told him that from the Iranians I had working for me, not a bunch of good news folks. Told my boss if he ever disciplined one of them to be sure he had someone from security there.

But, all in all, I do not see vets as heroes as a group, there were some as there always is but that is an individual thing.

Brian Cockfield
02-05-2013, 05:06 AM
Wow there are some freaking loons on this board. I mean out of their God forsaken minds loons.
Franco, you really should go back to posting as your dog because you were much more likable back then. Now every time you post I just wonder if I should ask hard it was to wire up Internet down in that bunker of yours and if you could please release that little boy back to his parents.
Turning what RP said into a theology discussion is stupid. The outrage isn't about a Bible passage it's because he basically said that the man deserved to die that way and that's a very stupid thing to say.
Nailed it.

road kill
02-05-2013, 06:07 AM
More passive aggressive obfuscation from the Wizard of Wisconscin

What scares you the most? That if you wade into the deep end of the pool your wife may have to run out here and bring you your floaties; or that nobody will recognize her?

What does my wife have to do with the topic?
Or anything here for that matter.
She has never posted here.
I don't understand your beef with her.
She is loving, smart, stunningly beautiful and has impeccable taste in men.:cool:

You have crossed the line.
Your post is anything but civil.

Could you possibly control your anger and stay on topic?

Ron Pauls tweet about Chris Kyle's death.

Franco
02-05-2013, 07:11 AM
It is amazing how a quote from the Bible upsets so-called Christians when it doesn't fit their war agenda.

From yesterday...

As a veteran, I certainly recognize that this weekend's violence and killing of Chris Kyle were a tragic and sad event. My condolences and prayers go out to Mr. Kyle’s family. Unconstitutional and unnecessary wars have endless unintended consequences. A policy of non-violence, as Christ preached, would have prevented this and similar tragedies. RP

road kill
02-05-2013, 07:14 AM
It is amazing how a quote from the Bible upsets so-called Christians when it doesn't fit their war agenda.

From yesterday...

As a veteran, I certainly recognize that this weekend's violence and killing of Chris Kyle were a tragic and sad event. My condolences and prayers go out to Mr. Kyle’s family. Unconstitutional and unnecessary wars have endless unintended consequences. A policy of non-violence, as Christ preached, would have prevented this and similar tragedies. RP

As I predicted, back pedaling!

Ken Bora
02-05-2013, 07:37 AM
RP does not back-peddle and never has.

?

Ha Ha, you funny man!
so, exactly what is ol' Ron's abortion view?
one day he is against federal law, next day he is signing some pledge for the other side.
christian when he wants to be? typical politition, nothing new to see here.

Franco
02-05-2013, 07:38 AM
As I predicted, back pedaling!

Hardley back pedaling!

A consistent message founded in his religion and political beliefs and the courage to speak up.

Dustin D
02-05-2013, 08:21 AM
It is amazing how a quote from the Bible upsets so-called Christians when it doesn't fit their war agenda.


It's probably b/c it's not actually a quote from the bible. That quote is simply not in there. I challenge you to find it.

However it seems many, including RP, have taken that particular phrase and used it to make a statement that gets incorrectly attributed to a statement in the Bible. You can see this by looking at the wiki article on the phrase.
It’s quite pathetic as I’ll show.

From Wiki;

“Live by the sword, die by the sword”
The phrase is found in the Christian Book of Revelation, 13:10:
Now next we should expect to see this phrase right? But no, we see this>

"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."

Wait where was the “Live by the sword die by the sword” I mean if you try and fit it in there you can I suppose but it's surely not a lock IMO considering the CONTEXT.

If you read the only two verses(Where this exact phrase is NOT found), if you read them (IN CONTEXT) I don't see how anyone would think that this was some parable that Jesus was giving to live by in the future and surely NOT relevant to the way Ron Paul used it to begin with. It was a specific incident in a specific timeline and a statement was made for the benefit of the disciple Jesus was talking too.

However, judging by what I see in this thread understanding the difference between the Old Law and New Testament and understanding context will be difficult. It seems some of you think the OT was written for Christians and that Christians who aren't sacrificing goats and growing beards are...well not really Christians. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Dustin D
02-05-2013, 08:29 AM
To add in why I believe it's wrongly attributed to the Bible.

Sometimes we are called to war/violence, as was Chris and as seen in the Bible.

However does that mean Chris or myself, lived by the sword? and once home away from War, we are destined to be gunned down on the street?

Not only is this phrase wrongfully attributed, its horrible misused in this case.

Ken Bora
02-05-2013, 08:33 AM
very well said Dustin!

mudminnow
02-05-2013, 09:21 AM
Dustin I appreciate your thoughts on this, i would like to make a couple statements though

The Old testament was written for Christians as well. The NT alone does not give the redemptive historical perspective of God, and Christ is throughout the OT if you just look for him.

I still have a hard time finding when we are called to war in Christ's teachings, spiritual war yes. I feel like it is easy to become like the Jews (who were wrong) who thought that Christ was supposed to be a political leader for a political revolution, when all he came for was spiritual revolution.

But if christians go to war they should follow the "just war" doctrines. (Fight to protect the innocent, only attack combatants, minimal civilian casualties) This is where RP is against the wars we fight now. They do not follow the tradition of the Just War doctrines at all.

Live by sword/die by sword- I think substituting "live" instead of take-up (the greek word does not have a good english counterpart) has happened over time but the truth is still there. If our culture is violent to other cultures, we should not be suprised when we are violent to ourselves or other cultures return violence. America has lost much of its morality in war, not so much on the soldiers level, but the top level.

Ken Bora
02-05-2013, 09:58 AM
.....I still have a hard time finding when we are called to war in Christ's teachings.


Chris not Christ, the dead Seal who was called to war.

Dustin D
02-05-2013, 09:59 AM
The Old testament was written for Christians as well.

Yes, yes, well I was directing my comment towards Franco really.

I assumed well read Christians would comprehend what my point was. It seems you have. :)

cripes
02-05-2013, 10:27 AM
Even the devil quotes scripture when it suits his needs.

Dustin D
02-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Even the devil quotes scripture when it suits his needs.

You calling me Satan?

:D LOL

cripes
02-05-2013, 02:23 PM
You calling me Satan?

:D LOL

Heil no.Just commenting on the thread in general.

Dustin D
02-05-2013, 04:38 PM
Heil no.Just commenting on the thread in general.

PUN! lol .........

Socks
02-05-2013, 04:54 PM
After reading that tweet I've come to the conclusion that Ron Paul is a piece garbage. Plain and simple. I don't care if he's christian, muslim, or jewish; to say something like that as a pulic figure is beyond what a rational caring person would do. He showed his true colors and his feeling towards our current military personel. These people go and do what they do at the orders of our elected "leaders" and die and have their friends die and some get wounded so bad it's a miracle that they survived. Now even if you disagree with me on this think on this: There's a strong chance that his widow or children will read or hear of this comment shortly after losing their husband/Father. Man, ain't that a "christian" thing to insult someone's loved one shortly after they are murdered.

As to the christian stuff. I think the bible is a work of fiction and for me to be judged by those standards is the equivalent of judging me by muslim standards. I think I'd just as soon give Ron Paul the middle finger to his face than shake his hand. I heard a saying one time that I liked. Something along the lines of "The only thing evil needs to suceed is for good men to do nothing." That piece of crap will get a email from me saying how much of an idiot his is.

Susie Royer
02-05-2013, 06:23 PM
After reading that tweet I've come to the conclusion that Ron Paul is a piece garbage. Plain and simple. I don't care if he's christian, muslim, or jewish; to say something like that as a pulic figure is beyond what a rational caring person would do. He showed his true colors and his feeling towards our current military personel.

Amen Joe ;)

Thomas D
02-05-2013, 06:49 PM
I totally agree, the Vietnam vets were not idolized by any means. The reason is that it was tough for the country to get behind a war that felt pointless to them. I love our soldiers so much that I only want them to fight to defend our country, not take another over.

I have felt that a rise in the PTSD has been due to the fact that we haven't had a "just war" since WW1. Since then the government has been more and more bold forcing our soldiers to strike civilian targets with ground, air, and drone attacks. That has to weigh heavily on our men and women. Our interventionist policy uses our soldiers for political gain under the banner of a war on terror.

I voted for W and McCain, I used to believe war was something that is always needed if the US is involved. But since Afghanistan part two I have rethought our views and realized that we are just starting an endless war in the Middle East. Those folks are all crazy and we are not going to fix things. Here we are supporting rebels in Syria that are burning Christians and their homes to the ground.

All this to say I love our troops, and blindly supporting our leaders while they send our troops into conflicts around the world turns them into mercenaries or martyrs of the statists. I want them to defend our freedom under clear direction of a clear purpose. I would say the biggest attacks on our freedoms are stateside, not in the ME

....and you really think there wasn't any PTSD in WWI because it was a "just war"?

mudminnow
02-05-2013, 08:04 PM
I said rise in PTSD.

Socks, the military overwhelmingly financially supported dr Paul in financial contributions. Here is a term, blowback, look it up. It is a foreign policy term that can be explained by live by the sword/ die by the sword. Paul cares about the military, that's why he cares what conflict they are sent to unlike most of congress who will blindly follow the pres or even worse the UN.

Socks
02-07-2013, 03:41 PM
I said rise in PTSD.

Socks, the military overwhelmingly financially supported dr Paul in financial contributions. Here is a term, blowback, look it up. It is a foreign policy term that can be explained by live by the sword/ die by the sword. Paul cares about the military, that's why he cares what conflict they are sent to unlike most of congress who will blindly follow the pres or even worse the UN.

Even good people can be decieved. You can call it blowback, or mispoken, or even not thinking. I still don't buy it. I still stand by my assessment and still wonder why he even needed to say anything at all. I'm sure Mr. Kyle's family just couldn't wait to hear what he said about their loved one being murdered. I also still stand by my earlier comment that I'd rather give him the bird to his face than shake his hand. And for the record I met a couple of SEALS once and they seemed like nice guys, but I wouldn't walk up to them and say what he said. Do you think he'd have to guts to do that? I don't.

mudminnow
02-07-2013, 05:46 PM
Yes he would have the guts to quote scripture and question if that was the best way to treat PTSD. I really don't understand why folks are getting riled up about it. And I can tell you didn't look up blowback because it is a foreign policy issue. Take a look at this and learn a little something that isn't in the mainstream media
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=DJLMtRt88ZU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDJLMtRt88ZU

Socks
02-07-2013, 10:55 PM
Yes he would have the guts to quote scripture and question if that was the best way to treat PTSD. I really don't understand why folks are getting riled up about it. And I can tell you didn't look up blowback because it is a foreign policy issue. Take a look at this and learn a little something that isn't in the mainstream media
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=DJLMtRt88ZU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDJLMtRt88ZU

You're right I didn't lookup blowback because I don't think it really matters. Again, why did he have to say anything? Why not condolences, or something along the lines of he served our country, or that he feels for the family. No, he has to go and quote scripture (which I think is ignorant) and use this man death to further his agenda. I seriously doubt he would whould say that to some SEALS and if he did he would be hiding behind that fact that he's old and/or an elected official. In a bar drinking a beer? NO. WAY. Also, from what I've read Mr. Kyle was helping several vets with PTSD by shooting. At least he was trying and not spouting crap out of his mouth. I'm the type that actions speak louder than words. Too bad Mr. Paul doesn't have to the sense to not use his words.

Another thing. Why is it always when someone trys to make a point it goes back don't believe the main stream media? I tend to think for myself and I don't need to be told how to think from the left or the right idiots.