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Uncle Bill
02-09-2013, 11:35 AM
I'm copying and pasting an interesting article I found.


Federal agency has now acquired enough bullets to wage 30 year war
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
February 7, 2013

The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest.
http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/february2013/070213dhs.jpg

A solicitation posted yesterday (https://marketplace.fedbid.com/fbweb/fbobuyDetails.do?token===wBKxmaVGYR9Kcq5Ajq%2BRH6Q AAAAAHeAAgAgTFCGg/FzzqQbJAAyVXBA0Or) on the Fed Bid website details how the bullets are required for the DHS Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico.
The solicitation asks for 10 million pistol cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds) and 10 million 9mm 115 grain jacketed hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds).
The document also lists a requirement for 1.6 million pistol cartridge 9mm ball bullets (40 quantities of 40,000 rounds).
An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion. In March 2012, ATK announced that they had agreed to provide the DHS with a maximum of 450 million bullets (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-contract-with-department-of-homeland-security-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-dhs-ice-142304055.html) over four years, a story that prompted questions about why the feds were buying ammunition in such large quantities. In September last year, the federal agency purchased a further 200 million bullets (http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-200-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/).
To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month (http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has176250.000/has176250_0.HTM). Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.
Such massive quantities of ammo purchases have stoked fears that the agency is preparing for some kind of domestic unrest. In 2011, Department of Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano directed Immigration and Customs Enforcement to prepare for a mass influx of immigrants (http://www.gsnmagazine.com/node/25222?c=disaster_preparedness_emergency_response) into the United States, calling for the plan to deal with the “shelter” and “processing” of large numbers of people.
The federal agency’s primary concern is now centered around thwarting “homegrown terrorism,” but information produced and used by the DHS to train its personnel routinely equates conservative political ideology with domestic extremism.
A study funded by the Department of Homeland Security (http://www.infowars.com/homeland-security-report-lists-liberty-lovers-as-terrorists/) that was leaked last year characterizes Americans who are “suspicious of centralized federal authority,” and “reverent of individual liberty” as “extreme right-wing” terrorists.
In August 2012 (http://www.infowars.com/dhs-classifies-ammo-purchase-following-controversy/), the DHS censored information relating to the amount of bullets purchased by the federal agency on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement, citing an “unusual and compelling urgency” to acquire the bullets, noting that there is a shortage of bullets which is threatening a situation that could cause “substantial safety issues for the government” should law enforcement officials not be adequately armed.
As we highlighted last month, (http://www.infowars.com/dhs-buys-200000-more-rounds-of-ammunition/) the DHS’ previous ammunition solicitation was awarded to Evian Group, an organization that was formed just five days before the announcement of the solicitation and appeared to be little more than a front organization since it didn’t have a genuine physical address, a website, or even a phone number.
While Americans are being browbeaten with rhetoric about the necessity to give up semi-automatic firearms in the name of preventing school shootings, the federal government is arming itself to the teeth with both ammunition and guns. Last September, the DHS purchased no less than 7,000 fully automatic assault rifles (https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=d791b6aa0fd9d3d8833b2efa08300033&tab=core&_cview=0), labeling them “Personal Defense Weapons.”
*********************
Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Infowars.com (http://infowars.com/) and Prison Planet.com (http://prisonplanet.com/). He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a host for Infowars Nightly News.

Uncle Bill
02-09-2013, 12:15 PM
Another "common sense" view from a resident in Sandy Hook.

UB To the Editor:This letter was forwarded to Barack Obama, John Boehner, Chris Murphy, Dick Blumenthal, Elizabeth Esty, and Harry Reid.


I live in Sandy Hook, CT. My family and close friends weren't harmed on December 14. That day impacted 26 families with an indescribable, staggering pain and anguish. For most of Sandy Hook, it merely affected us with an inescapable intensity of sadness and grief.


Gun control has long been a focus of many in this country. Though I'm not knowledgeable of all the nuances of the Second Amendment, based on the Founding Fathers' circumstances, it had far more to do with enabling the citizenry to protect themselves against tyrannical government than against local psychopaths. It is about providing a balanced firepower so when King George's successor came knocking on your door, you could fight back.


Government today is no less inclined to abuse its authority than it was then. Based on the absurd and ongoing power grab that is present day Washington, it's as threatening as ever.

That so many of you view the NRA with its resistance to further restrictions on firearms as intransigent lunatics has far more to do with how you conduct yourselves in office than it does with the NRA's actions.


You in public office are fundamentally dishonest people!


You lead lives of deception at every turn, structuring your lives as comfortably as you can while governing with an indifference and arrogance that is absolutely maddening. When the country is reeling from financial disaster, you waste a trillion dollars on a health care bill we can't afford and you've never even read!


You claim it's critical because health care costs are killing this country. No, they're not, you are! Youare killing this country. You endorse the ongoing slaughter of millions of unborn children and whine when terrorists are water boarded. You can't lecture us right in Newtown High School about not doing enough to keep our children safe, while simultaneously slaughtering the unborn. You fabricate the intense, media laden drama of the fiscal cliff and lack the courage to do anything about truly reforming the obscene gluttony of government.

You know you'll be out of office before the bill ever comes due. You don't care and have no integrity nor honor.


You lie whenever and wherever you need to to move forth your agenda. Were you able, you would purge the US of guns.… every last gun in the country, if you could.


So please forgive Wayne LaPierre and those of us who don't trust you as far as we can spit! You're a dishonest lot, motivated by a distorted worldview. If mass murder prevention were truly your goal, you would welcome armed security wherever needed. It is outrageous that we protect our money with far more firepower than we protect our children.


I have never owned a gun, nor wanted to as intensely as right now. You'll stop restricting guns when only you have them.


Brendan Duffy

4 Chestnut Knoll Drive, Sandy Hook January 8, 2013

Gerry Clinchy
02-09-2013, 04:11 PM
I've wondered why there hasn't been more discussion on the DHS, and other Fed agencies, stockpiling guns and ammunition. If the Fed govt plans on doubling down on firearms & ammunition manufacturors, it would be a wise move to make sure that the govt agencies have as much as they'll need for 30 years.

It seems like Obama is getting his domestic "army", but the weapons are for a select few. Let us hope that there are some people of honor and conscience who will be holding those weapons if "domestic unrest" should occur.

Pete
02-09-2013, 04:24 PM
UB
We are quickly finding out that those conspiracy nuts were right all along. Think about it. From Kennedy to Sandy Hook lies are being brought to light right and left,,the non mainstream media can't keep up with it all. The worse part about it is that the walls will not come tumbling down. The network cheerleaders will make sure they are discredited.
We (society in general especially our youth) have been so hypnitized and stupertized that we don't even believe when we see or hear the infraction ,,cause tv will tell us what to think.

Pete

Pete
02-09-2013, 04:32 PM
I've wondered why there hasn't been more discussion on the DHS, and other Fed agencies, stockpiling guns and ammunition. If the Fed govt plans on doubling down on firearms & ammunition manufacturors, it would be a wise move to make sure that the govt agencies have as much as they'll need for 30 years.

It seems like Obama is getting his domestic "army", but the weapons are for a select few. Let us hope that there are some people of honor and conscience who will be holding those weapons if "domestic unrest" should occur.[QUOTE]


Part of the litmus test that this administration is performing is randomly questioning the upper ranks and individuals within the ranks if they would fire on U.S. citizens if ordered to do so.. Depending on the answers provided seems to determine if they are relieved of their duty or taking early retirement,,or moved up.
Why are they even asking it. Well any one with a half a brain has a good idea why.
I don't know if it is a coincidence that so many high ranking officials are stepping down. This test is put forth as a hypothesis as to hide its real purpose
Pete

Pete
02-09-2013, 04:40 PM
http://www.infowars.com/nobel-peace-prize-nominee-obama-asks-military-leaders-if-they-will-fire-on-us-citizens/

You can also find interviews from soldiers on you tube who have taken the litmus test.

Pete
02-09-2013, 05:52 PM
Here is one of the surveys,,,its long but the last question says it all


The following survey was given to U.S. Marines at the 29 Palms Marine Corps base in California:
DD Form 3206 (Rev 2/96)

JOINT SERVICES TRAINING COMBAT ARMS SURVEY

Part A (Confidential when filled in)

This questionnaire is to gather data concerning the attitudes of combat trained personnel with regard to non-traditional missions. All responses are confidential and official. Write your answers directly on the form. In Part II, place an "X" in the space provided for your response.

Date:_____________

Part 1. Demographics.

1. Branch of Service: Army ( ) USAF ( ) Navy ( ) Marines ( ) ANG ( ) NG ( ) USCG ( ) Other: ( )

2. Pay Grade: (E-6, O-4, etc) ( )

3. MOS, AFSC or Specialty Code and Description: ( )

4. Highest level of education: Less than 12 ( ) 13 ( ) 14 ( ) 15 ( ) (16) ( ) More than 16 ( )

5. How many months did you serve in Operation Desert Storm/Desert Shield?( )

6. How many months did you serve in Somalia? ( )

7. Where did you spend most of your childhood?

City: ( ); County: ( ) State: ( )

Part II. Attitude:

Do you feel that U.S. combat troops should be used within the U.S. and bordering countries for any of the following missions?

(Strongly Disagree) (Disagree) (Agree) (Strongly Agree) (No Opinion)

8. Drug enforcement

9. Disaster relief (e.g. hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes)

10. Security at national events (e.g. Olympic Games, Super Bowl)

11. Environmental disaster clean-up including toxic and nuclear

12. Substitute teachers and school workers in public schools

13. Community assistance programs (e.g. landscaping, environmental clean-up,road repair, animal control)

14. Federal and State prison guards and auxiliary police

15. National emergency police force/international security force

16. Advisors to SWAT units, the FBI, or the BATF

17. Border Patrol (e.g. prevention of entry of illegal aliens into U.S. territory)

18. Drug enforcement and interdiction

19. Disaster relief in bordering countries (e.g. hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes, etc.)

20. Environmental disaster clean-up in bordering countries including toxic and nuclear.

21. Peace keeping and local law enforcement and internal security forces

22. National building (reconstruct civil governments, develop public school system, develop or improve public transportation system, etc.)

23. Humanitarian relief (e.g. food and medical supplies, temporary housing and clothing and domestic care).

Do you feel that U.S. combat troops should be used in other countries, under command of non-U.S. officers appointed by the U.N. for any of the following missions?

24. Drug enforcement.

25. Disaster relief (e.g. hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes)

26. Environmental disaster clean-up including toxic and nuclear.

27. Peace keeping including local law enforcement and internal security forces

28. National building (reconstruct civil government, develop public school system, develop or improve public transportation system, etc.

29. Humanitarian relief (e.g. food and medical supplies, temporary housing and clothing and domestic care)

30. Police action (e.g. Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm but serving under non-U.S. officers)

31. The U.S. runs a field training exercise. U.N. combat troops should be allowed to serve in U.S. combat units during these exercises under U.S. command and control.

32. The U.N. runs a field training exercise. U.S. combat troops under U.S. command and control should serve in U.N. combat units during these exercises

33. The U.N. runs a field training exercise. U. S. combat troops should serve under U.N. command and control.

34. U.S. combat troops should participate in U.N.missions as long as the U.S. has full command and control.

35. U.S. combat troops should participate in U.N. missions under U.N. command and control.

36. U.S. combat troops should be commanded by U.N. officers and non- commissioned officers at battalion, wing and company levels while performing U.N. missions.

37. It would make no difference to me to have U.N. soldiers as members of my team.

38. It would make no difference to me to take orders from a U.N. company or squadron commander.

39. I feel the President of the U.S. has the authority to pass his responsibilities as Commander-in-Chief to the U.N. Secretary General.

40. I feel there is no conflict between my oath of office and serving as a U.N. soldier.

41. I feel my unit's combat effectiveness would not be affected by performing huminatarian and peace keeping missions for the U.N.

42. I feel a designated unit of U.S. combat soldiers should be permanently assigned to the command and control of the U.N.

43. I would be willing to volunteer for assignment to a U.S. combat unit under a U.N. commander.

44. I would like U.N. member countries, including the U.S., to give the U.N. all the soldiers necessary to maintain world peace.

45. I would swear to the following code:

"I am a United Nations fighting person. I serve in the forces which maintain world peace and every nation's way of life. I swear and affirm to support and defend the Charter of the United Nations and I am prepared to give my life in its defense."

46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-approved firearms. A 30-day amnesty period is established for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of irregular citizen groups and defiant individuals refuse to turn over their firearms to authority.

Consider the following statement:

"I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the United States government."

End of Survey

Tom. P.
02-09-2013, 05:53 PM
Wow UB! How refteshing to see such dramatic writing as that?Makes one feel that Folks are finally waking up.

paul young
02-10-2013, 09:30 AM
Have any of you stopped to consider that DHS uses roughly 2.5 millon rounds each time their agents re-qualify with their weapons ( I don't know how frequently they have to re-qualify, but I bet it's at least annually). They have about 230,000 agents.

Add to that the ammo necessary to qualify new employees and how much ammo is carried by agents in the field. -Paul

mjh345
02-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Have any of you stopped to consider that DHS uses roughly 2.5 millon rounds each time their agents re-qualify with their weapons ( I don't know how frequently they have to re-qualify, but I bet it's at least annually). They have about 230,000 agents.

Add to that the ammo necessary to qualify new employees and how much ammo is carried by agents in the field. -Paul

Yeah, but they make a video recomending that we defend ourselves with plastic scissors

HPL
02-10-2013, 10:53 AM
Have any of you stopped to consider that DHS uses roughly 2.5 millon rounds each time their agents re-qualify with their weapons ( I don't know how frequently they have to re-qualify, but I bet it's at least annually). They have about 230,000 agents.

Add to that the ammo necessary to qualify new employees and how much ammo is carried by agents in the field. -Paul

230,000 Agents!!! Seriously!?? That's nearly as many people as we have commissioned officers in our entire armed forces or about equal to 16% the size of the armed forces!! Seems a bit extreme to me.

Gerry Clinchy
02-10-2013, 11:14 AM
Have any of you stopped to consider that DHS uses roughly 2.5 millon rounds each time their agents re-qualify with their weapons ( I don't know how frequently they have to re-qualify, but I bet it's at least annually). They have about 230,000 agents.

Add to that the ammo necessary to qualify new employees and how much ammo is carried by agents in the field. -Paul

I, too, am stunned by the # 230,000 for the # of agents ... that would be nearly 10% of the entire US population! And part of the overall population would be children under age 18 ... that seems like a very large number. If the # is correct, I have some reservations about Obama's idea of a "domestic army". Isn't that about 1/3 the size of our military? (I'm not sure of the #s in our full-time military). Might the 230,000 be the total # of employees of the agency? Maybe the # includes those that don't carry weapons ... like clerical & other administrative workers?

2.5 million rounds would mean about 11 rounds per agent for requalification. 2.5 million then seems like too little for requalification for that many people.

HPL
02-10-2013, 11:48 AM
I, too, am stunned by the # 230,000 for the # of agents ... that would be nearly 10% of the entire US population! And part of the overall population would be children under age 18 ... that seems like a very large number. If the # is correct, I have some reservations about Obama's idea of a "domestic army". Isn't that about 1/3 the size of our military? (I'm not sure of the #s in our full-time military). Might the 230,000 be the total # of employees of the agency? Maybe the # includes those that don't carry weapons ... like clerical & other administrative workers?

2.5 million rounds would mean about 11 rounds per agent for requalification. 2.5 million then seems like too little for requalification for that many people.


Actually a little less than 1/10 of 1% (but still a large number)

Soooo....... I decided to look up how large the NYC police force is and it is about 34,500 members of the force. Get this though, there are 271,000 people on the city payroll in NYC!!! Wonder how many more "civil servants" there are if you include federal employees.

Eric Johnson
02-10-2013, 12:02 PM
Are hollow points used for qualification now?

Gerry Clinchy
02-10-2013, 12:08 PM
Actually a little less than 1/10 of 1% (but still a large number)

Oops ... sorry about that. Senior moment!

Soooo....... I decided to look up how large the NYC police force is and it is about 34,500 members of the force. Get this though, there are 271,000 people on the city payroll in NYC!!! Wonder how many more "civil servants" there are if you include federal employees.

So, are the "armed" agents of DHS only about 10% of the actual employees? I think I got the decimal in the right place this time :-)

Eric makes a good point in whether one could use the cheapest form of ammo to "practice" with, and save the more expensive for actual use.

I think that there has been a figure reported somewhere about the # of govt-employees v. private sector. Maybe health care is not going to be the only commodity that will become single-payer?

mjh345
02-10-2013, 12:59 PM
So, are the "armed" agents of DHS only about 10% of the actual employees? I think I got the decimal in the right place this time :-)

Eric makes a good point in whether one could use the cheapest form of ammo to "practice" with, and save the more expensive for actual use.

I think that there has been a figure reported somewhere about the # of govt-employees v. private sector. Maybe health care is not going to be the only commodity that will become single-payer?
Where do you come up with the 230,000 agents being 10% of the work force? Whatever the number of employees or agents, 230,000 or 2.3 million, I see it as being too many by either 230,000 or 2.3 million employees or agents. What do they do besides tell us to duct tape our windows
with plastic, make videos telling us to defend ourselves against a gunmen with plastic scissors, or trying to scare us by telling us the danger level is being changed to orange or blue or yellow or some other undefined variable. There greatest skill IMHO is making other state and municipal govts cow-tow to their every whim and spend money like drunken sailors

Also when Im buying ammo, I can assure you hollow points aren't the cheapest. Not by a long shot{pardon the pun}

paul young
02-10-2013, 05:27 PM
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120404143753AAVvus1

I may have been off a little, but not much. You also need to add the United States Coast Guard to arrive at a final number.

The Coast guard alone would account for a huge number of small arms and ammunition for them.-Paul

paul young
02-10-2013, 05:32 PM
Where do you come up with the 230,000 agents being 10% of the work force? Whatever the number of employees or agents, 230,000 or 2.3 million, I see it as being too many by either 230,000 or 2.3 million employees or agents. What do they do besides tell us to duct tape our windows
with plastic, make videos telling us to defend ourselves against a gunmen with plastic scissors, or trying to scare us by telling us the danger level is being changed to orange or blue or yellow or some other undefined variable. There greatest skill IMHO is making other state and municipal govts cow-tow to their every whim and spend money like drunken sailors

Also when Im buying ammo, I can assure you hollow points aren't the cheapest. Not by a long shot{pardon the pun}

Check out the link I provided. They do A LOT more than you seem to think they do.

But then again, it's a lot more fun to think the Gummints out to get you. - Paul

Henlee
02-10-2013, 10:01 PM
The JOINT SERVICES TRAINING COMBAT ARMS SURVEY was part of a master theisis to judge if the troops had a suffecient understanding of the role of the military in the United States.

HPL
02-10-2013, 10:14 PM
The JOINT SERVICES TRAINING COMBAT ARMS SURVEY was part of a master theisis to judge if the troops had a suffecient understanding of the role of the military in the United States.

Here are two possible responses to your post:

1. So, what are the correct answers and how did the folks tested fair?

2. Sure, that's what they SAID it was for. Psst, by the way, I have a big orange colored bridge I'm willing to sell chaap.

JDogger
02-10-2013, 10:28 PM
The JOINT SERVICES TRAINING COMBAT ARMS SURVEY was part of a master theisis to judge if the troops had a suffecient understanding of the role of the military in the United States.

Hi Henlee, welcome to RTF PP.

Usually, a good first post includes a little bit about who you are, and what you do with retrievers. It helps....JD

Pete
02-11-2013, 06:33 AM
You must have not watched the clip I posted of the military going house to house in Katrina,,kicking down doors without out waiting for people to respond to the knocking and confiscating their guns, You must have missed the old lady getting bruitilized on camera as she questioned why she needs to give up that little gun she was holding..
Natural disaters are a prooving ground.
Pete

mjh345
02-11-2013, 08:32 AM
Check out the link I provided. They do A LOT more than you seem to think they do.

But then again, it's a lot more fun to think the Gummints out to get you. - Paul
I believe I'll pass on checking out your link. Im sure they have a number of employees on their payroll, as do most govt buereacracies, who are good at writing flowery descriptions of the wonderful things they do in order to justify their existence.
IMHO we have too many govt agencies. The fact that they feel the need to spend our $ scaring usmaking self serving propaganda about our need for them is rather telling.

If you don't think the "Gummints" out to get us and take away our Constitutionally guaranteed freedomsthen you have not been paying attention.
The 4th Am. has become a joke to them. Remember the Patriot Act? How about the Bush administration telling us they had not tapped any phones; it turned out they tapped EVERY phone. Now they are supposedly using drones to go after the rogue cop out in LA. I guess we all know that drones are 100% safe and dont ever miss their target and do collateral damage. They want to allow the military to kill US citizens: all they have to do is use a couple of magic words in describing their target. I could go on, but if you don't get it by now its useless.

If they make a video recomending that we defend ourselves with plastic scissors against an armed gunmen, then why do they not arm their agents with plastic scissors? Think of the money they'd save. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Right???

Homeland Security has scarecly been in existence for a decade and look at how huge and powerful they have become. IMHO we got along just fine without them. Its one of the biggest power grabs by the govt since the days of FDRs New Deal. Besides that if you haven't noticed we are leaking red ink all over the place. We cant afford more govt BS programs, especially ones that are designed to scare us so they can take away more of our freedoms.

There is a famous quote from one of our founders to the effect of...Those who would sacrifice freedoms for safety deserve and will get neither

Marvin S
02-11-2013, 12:00 PM
I believe I'll pass on checking out your link. Im sure they have a number of employees on their payroll, as do most govt buereacracies, who are good at writing flowery descriptions of the wonderful things they do in order to justify their existence.
IMHO we have too many govt agencies. The fact that they feel the need to spend our $ scaring usmaking self serving propaganda about our need for them is rather telling.

If you don't think the "Gummints" out to get us and take away our Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms then you have not been paying attention.
The 4th Am. has become a joke to them. Remember the Patriot Act? How about the Bush administration telling us they had not tapped any phones; it turned out they tapped EVERY phone. Now they are supposedly using drones to go after the rogue cop out in LA. I guess we all know that drones are 100% safe and dont ever miss their target and do collateral damage. They want to allow the military to kill US citizens: all they have to do is use a couple of magic words in describing their target. I could go on, but if you don't get it by now its useless.

If they make a video recomending that we defend ourselves with plastic scissors against an armed gunmen, then why do they not arm their agents with plastic scissors? Think of the money they'd save. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Right???

Homeland Security has scarecly been in existence for a decade and look at how huge and powerful they have become. IMHO we got along just fine without them. Its one of the biggest power grabs by the govt since the days of FDRs New Deal. Besides that if you haven't noticed we are leaking red ink all over the place. We cant afford more govt BS programs, especially ones that are designed to scare us so they can take away more of our freedoms.

There is a famous quote from one of our founders to the effect of...Those who would sacrifice freedoms for safety deserve and will get neither

Paul - as you have not responded I will - you need to read this very carefully - I believe Marc has the background to pass a thing or two along legal-wise.

paul young
02-11-2013, 12:17 PM
Paul - as you have not responded I will - you need to read this very carefully - I believe Marc has the background to pass a thing or two along legal-wise.

OK, then. They are all out to git us!

We'll just get rid of the Coast Guard, Border Patrol, Customs, TSA, FEMA, Citizenship & Immigration Services. Much safer now! All better!-Paul

Gerry Clinchy
03-15-2013, 10:56 AM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/
This further discussion of the ammo purchase by DHS appeared on the Forbes.com site just a few days ago.

As reported elsewhere (https://marketplace.fedbid.com/fbweb/fbobuyDetails.do?token===wBKxmaVGYR9Kcq5Ajq%2BRH6Q AAAAAHeAAgAgTFCGg/FzzqQbJAAyVXBA0Or), some of this purchase order is for hollow-point rounds, forbidden by international law for use in war, along with a frightening amount specialized for snipers. Also reported elsewhere (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-forced-to-import-bullets-from-israel-as-troops-use-250000-for-every-rebel-killed-28580666.html), at the height of the Iraq War the Army was expending less than 6 million rounds a month. Therefore 1.6 billion rounds would be enough to sustain a hot war for 20+ years. In America.

Another author is quoted in the article

[T]he Department of Homeland Security is apparently taking delivery (apparently through the Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico VA, via the manufacturer – Navistar Defense LLC) of an undetermined number of the recently retrofitted 2,717 ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ MaxxPro MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of theUnited States (http://www.forbes.com/places/united-states/).”These MRAP’s ARE BEING SEEN ON U.S. STREETS all across America by verified observers with photos, videos, and descriptions.”
Regardless of the exact number of MRAP’s being delivered to DHS (and evidently some to POLICE via DHS, as has been observed), why would they need such over-the-top vehicles on U.S. streets to withstand IEDs, mine blasts, and 50 caliber hits to bullet-proof glass? In a war zone… yes, definitely. Let’s protect our men and women. On the streets of America… ?”
…“They all have gun ports… Gun Ports? In the theater of war, yes. On the streets of America…?
Seriously, why would DHS need such a vehicle on our streets?”


At 15 million rounds (which, in itself, is pretty extraordinary and sounds more like fun target-shooting-at-taxpayer-expense than a sensible training exercise) … that’s a stockpile that would last DHS over a century. To claim that it’s to “get a low price” for a ridiculously wasteful amount is an argument that could only fool a career civil servant.

From Townhall.com today

Government spokesmen, when they're not trying to make 1.6 billion bullets sound like a frugal, Costco-style bulk purchase, will tell you it's all about target practice. Really? I hear that U.S. Army newbies soon to deploy to Afghanistan are training with blank cartridges. Why the priority for arming domestic forces, not military ones?

Even the liberal-minded "debunking" site Snopes.com confirms that the Social Security Administration has procured 174,000 hollow-point bullets for 300 special agents. Meanwhile, the National Marine Fisheries Service, which is tasked with "protecting fish stocks from depletion," has procured 46,000 hollow-point bullets. Spokesman Scott Smullen explained, straight-faced, I am guessing, that 63 fisheries service "enforcement agents" will be using the so-called cop-killer bullets for "target qualifications."(That's 730 bullets for each agent. No mention of the history of how many bullets they have needed, per year, in the past, much less hollow-points.),

Also from Townhall:

Back in 2008, candidate Barack Obama went off his teleprompter and added a couple of sentences to the text of a speech about expanding the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps. Over rolling applause, the soon-to-be president of the United States said: "We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."


Nearly five years later, it hardly matters that candidate Obama's promise to double the Peace Corps and the rest has come to naught. But the president's unscripted determination to empower a civilian national security force is a different story. As far as you're concerned, though, it's also a nonstory.

This complacency or complicity has to stop. During the last 10 months, the Department of Homeland Security has purchased 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition, including millions of hollow-point bullets. The department also has purchased 7,000 fully automatic assault rifles, and it has overseen the retrofitting of more than 2,000 light tanks, which, of course, were originally designed to resist the mines and ambushes of the battlefield. Why does DHS need such offensive and defensive firepower
It just seems to me that if Obama, the Fed ... whatever you want to call it ... were truly interested in having a mobile, domestic force, they would be following Switzerland's formula of training citizens to defend their country if there were an "invasion" of a foreign force. Unless one is really dumb, they have to notice that foreign invaders, when they outnumber the defenders, have been most effectively damaged by guerilla-type, hit-and-run, resistance than they are by highly visible military units. Iraq and A'stan would be the most recent examples.

And do we really believe there is likely to be an invasion of a foreign force that would require the armaments of the DHS? wouldn't it be more likely that Iran or N Korea would drop a bomb on us; or set off a dirty bomb, v. a land invasion?

1.6 billion rounds is 5 rounds for every US citizen ... do we imagine that if there were a land invasion it would total even 1 million combatants on US soil? That would then be 1600 rounds per "invader". Guess that would mean that all that target practice isn't expected to result in much accuracy?

Either this govt is very dumb or very sinister. They have certainly already shown that they can be very dumb. Even if it is a matter of them just being this dumb, are such dummies the ones who should have all the guns and ammo?

Jason Glavich
03-15-2013, 11:15 AM
Not all DHS employees or agents use a pistol or have to qualify, very small amount of the total 200k which includes a lot of regular gov employees. The other thing is the infowars article and the links incorrectly explain the amount of ammo they are buying in that request. They have bought a lot of ammo but info wars is pretty sloppy at reading the request for bids. Also hollow points are not used in qualification shooting. But then again neither are armored vehicles.

HPL
03-15-2013, 11:26 AM
Not all DHS employees or agents use a pistol or have to qualify, very small amount of the total 200k which includes a lot of regular gov employees. The other thing is the infowars article and the links incorrectly explain the amount of ammo they are buying in that request. They have bought a lot of ammo but info wars is pretty sloppy at reading the request for bids. Also hollow points are not used in qualification shooting. But then again neither are armored vehicles.

Instead of just making that statement, could you give the correction (clean up their sloppiness).

Jason Glavich
03-15-2013, 11:41 AM
When reading requests for proposals there is a lot of I will call it "odd" wording.
Commercial Leaded Training Ammo (CLTA) Pistol Cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point(Jhp) p/n P40HSTS3G OR EQUAL. BRASS CASING 100,000 ROUNDS PRICE PER 1000 ROUNDS WILL INCLUDE DELIVERY QTY 100
That is 100,000 rounds 1,000x100 not 100,000x100 which is what they state in the articles. When you add it all the way they did it is 21.6million. Or the right way it is 240,000.

But even saying that, they have bought a lot of ammo and once again hollow points are not used in target practice.

Gerry Clinchy
03-15-2013, 03:05 PM
When DHS defended why they needed a lot of ammo ... why didn't they refute the amounts that were cited?

Uncle Bill
03-27-2013, 10:45 AM
When DHS defended why they needed a lot of ammo ... why didn't they refute the amounts that were cited?

Because they can't, Gerry. For those that "don't SEE it"...here's another picture and story for you to become better informed. UB


Ya gots to keep the ignorant, great unwashed from rising up.



http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/ (http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/)


1. The King and his tributes are paranoid and showing their insecurity by doing what they do best and thats be bullies. Just look at the way they dress and arm their minions for domestic civil unrest. Don’t you think its odd that the DHS and police depts have armored vehicles with 50 caliber machine guns mounted and show them off at shopping malls?

2. Big purchases allows them greater purchasing power.

3. Dry up the market & let the suppliers know whos boss.

4. They are scared.



What is really a hoot is that it is payed for by taxpayer money and monies borrowed from China.

But maybe all of the spending is just for the purpose of lining their buddies pockets.

Always follow the money....................

caryalsobrook
03-27-2013, 10:57 AM
The real threat in the future will be a tax on ammo. How about a $1.00 per cartrage for startes. Certainly in the range of possibility, don't you think?

BonMallari
03-27-2013, 11:31 AM
The real threat in the future will be a tax on ammo. How about a $1.00 per cartrage for startes. Certainly in the range of possibility, don't you think?

IMO that's exactly how it will play out...they know they cant beat the 2A in the courts, but they can tax ammo thru the roof OR they can declare it as a HAZMAT (lead) and make it so expensive to shoot or even illegal to dispense it in the atmosphere

Henlee
03-28-2013, 01:40 AM
Here are two possible responses to your post:

1. So, what are the correct answers and how did the folks tested fair?

2. Sure, that's what they SAID it was for. Psst, by the way, I have a big orange colored bridge I'm willing to sell chaap.

They were found to have an insuffient knowledge of the role of the military. The author is a now a retired from the marines and is a conservitive speaker, who speaks frequently for the NRA. It is easy enough to look up if you take a few minutes.

Uncle Bill
03-29-2013, 12:38 PM
Just another view on the topic. UB







The Honorable Senator John Cornyn, State of Texas
United States Senate
517 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510

Re: Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and that agencies preparation for war against citizens of the United States of America

Dear Senator Cornyn,

It is with gravest concern that I write to you today concerning the recent appropriation of weapons by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) that can only be understood as a bold threat of war by that agency, and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America. To date, DHS has been unwilling to provide to you, the elected representatives of the People, justification for recent purchases of more than 7,000 mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) armored personnel carriers, 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition (with associated weapons), and other weapons systems, when, in fact, the DHS has no war mission or war making authority within the limits of the United States of America.

Significant is the fact that at the same time the Obama administration is arming his DHS for war within the limits of the United States against the People of the United States in accordance with his 2008 campaign speech claiming,

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve gotta (sic) have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded [as the United States military]" -- Candidate Barack Obama, 2008.

The Obama administration is deliberately defunding, overextending, and hollowing the Department of Defense; the only legitimate agency of the U.S. government with a war mission.

This act of the Obama administration stands as a glaring threat of war against our nation’s citizens! This act of the Obama administration can only be understood as a tyrannical threat against the Constitution of the United States of America! If left unresolved, the peace loving citizens who have sworn to defend the United States Constitution "against all enemies, both foreign and domestic" are left no option except to prepare to defend themselves, and the U.S. Constitution, against this Administration’s "coup" against the People and the foundations of liberty fought for and defended for the past 238 years. We have no choice if we honor our oaths.

The only proper response to this threat against the American people is for the representatives of the People, the members of the U.S. House and Senate, to demand in clear terms that the Administration cannot ignore, that the Department of Homeland Security immediately surrender their newly appropriated weapons of war to the Department of Defense (DoD). Further, since the DHS has assumed a position in the Administration to enforce the tyrannical acts of this president against the People of the United States against the limits of the United States Constitution, it remains for the United States Congress to exercise its limiting power in the balancing of powers established by our founding fathers, to disestablish and dissolve the DHS as soon as possible. One needs only to look to the rise of Adolf Hitler, and his associated DHS organizations, the SA and the SS, of 1932-1934, to see the outcome of allowing an agency of government this kind of control over the free citizens of a nation. The people of Germany could not have imagined, until it was too late, the danger of allowing a tyrant this kind of power. We must not be so naĂŻve as to think it will not happen to us as well if we remain passive toward this power grab by the Marxist Obama administration!

Finally, for more than two centuries the nation has lived in peace at home because of the protections of our legitimate military and the many appropriate state and federal law enforcement agencies, supported by Constitutional courts. We stand today at a cross-road. Will we allow this present Administration to overthrow our United States Constitution and its legal processes to amend injustices, or, will we honor our obligations to defend the Constitution against a "domestic" enemy?

Our Constitution lays out the proper methods of resolving our differences; and it does not include its overthrow by a rogue agency of a Marxist leadership at home. You, sir, are our constitutionally elected agent to defend our Constitution at home. We are counting upon you. We remain aware, however, of this present threat and will not expose ourselves as an easy prey to the authors of the destruction of our nation.

I know that this letter demands much of you. We elected you because we, the citizens of the State of Texas, believe that you are up to the task at hand and will, against all threats, honor your oath and office. We are also writing to your fellow members of the House and Senate to stand in integrity with the Constitution and against this present threat by the Obama administration and his DHS.

We refuse to surrender our Constitution or our nation!

Resolved,

Captain Terry M. Hestilow
United States Army, Retired
Fort Worth, Texas
March 23, 2013

sick lids
03-29-2013, 06:47 PM
Just another view on the topic. UB




The Honorable Senator John Cornyn, State of Texas
United States Senate
517 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510

Re: Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and that agencies preparation for war against citizens of the United States of America

Dear Senator Cornyn,

It is with gravest concern that I write to you today concerning the recent appropriation of weapons by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) that can only be understood as a bold threat of war by that agency, and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America. To date, DHS has been unwilling to provide to you, the elected representatives of the People, justification for recent purchases of more than 7,000 mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) armored personnel carriers, 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition (with associated weapons), and other weapons systems, when, in fact, the DHS has no war mission or war making authority within the limits of the United States of America.

Significant is the fact that at the same time the Obama administration is arming his DHS for war within the limits of the United States against the People of the United States in accordance with his 2008 campaign speech claiming,

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve gotta (sic) have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded [as the United States military]" -- Candidate Barack Obama, 2008.

The Obama administration is deliberately defunding, overextending, and hollowing the Department of Defense; the only legitimate agency of the U.S. government with a war mission.

This act of the Obama administration stands as a glaring threat of war against our nation’s citizens! This act of the Obama administration can only be understood as a tyrannical threat against the Constitution of the United States of America! If left unresolved, the peace loving citizens who have sworn to defend the United States Constitution "against all enemies, both foreign and domestic" are left no option except to prepare to defend themselves, and the U.S. Constitution, against this Administration’s "coup" against the People and the foundations of liberty fought for and defended for the past 238 years. We have no choice if we honor our oaths.

The only proper response to this threat against the American people is for the representatives of the People, the members of the U.S. House and Senate, to demand in clear terms that the Administration cannot ignore, that the Department of Homeland Security immediately surrender their newly appropriated weapons of war to the Department of Defense (DoD). Further, since the DHS has assumed a position in the Administration to enforce the tyrannical acts of this president against the People of the United States against the limits of the United States Constitution, it remains for the United States Congress to exercise its limiting power in the balancing of powers established by our founding fathers, to disestablish and dissolve the DHS as soon as possible. One needs only to look to the rise of Adolf Hitler, and his associated DHS organizations, the SA and the SS, of 1932-1934, to see the outcome of allowing an agency of government this kind of control over the free citizens of a nation. The people of Germany could not have imagined, until it was too late, the danger of allowing a tyrant this kind of power. We must not be so naĂŻve as to think it will not happen to us as well if we remain passive toward this power grab by the Marxist Obama administration!

Finally, for more than two centuries the nation has lived in peace at home because of the protections of our legitimate military and the many appropriate state and federal law enforcement agencies, supported by Constitutional courts. We stand today at a cross-road. Will we allow this present Administration to overthrow our United States Constitution and its legal processes to amend injustices, or, will we honor our obligations to defend the Constitution against a "domestic" enemy?

Our Constitution lays out the proper methods of resolving our differences; and it does not include its overthrow by a rogue agency of a Marxist leadership at home. You, sir, are our constitutionally elected agent to defend our Constitution at home. We are counting upon you. We remain aware, however, of this present threat and will not expose ourselves as an easy prey to the authors of the destruction of our nation.

I know that this letter demands much of you. We elected you because we, the citizens of the State of Texas, believe that you are up to the task at hand and will, against all threats, honor your oath and office. We are also writing to your fellow members of the House and Senate to stand in integrity with the Constitution and against this present threat by the Obama administration and his DHS.

We refuse to surrender our Constitution or our nation!

Resolved,

Captain Terry M. Hestilow
United States Army, Retired
Fort Worth, Texas
March 23, 2013










Some one forget the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, and the 9-11 attacks? Lets cross our fingers that it never comes to testing our citizens resolve to be free. In the last election it seemed people were celebrating giving it up.