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View Full Version : Too Much of a Coincidence for Me - Gun Control and Events Surrounding



RailRoadRetrievers
02-15-2013, 10:06 PM
I would like for the main contributors to this particular portion of this forum to chime in as well to get their take on it, but here is mine...

Just the most recent ones, not Gabby and not Fast and Furious (both of which have had an impact on current gun control legislation).

1. Aurora, Colorado
2. Sandy Hook
3. Chris Kyle (An ignored and forgotten American Hero)
4. Chris Dorner (A Media Hero)

I have firm convictions all of these incidents were all staged, perhaps not all of those involved were a part of the "staged" act, but I have a feeling the government is behind this. I have a major distrust with the current regime and have no reason to think they are above these actions.

JDogger
02-15-2013, 11:00 PM
Please cite some evidence. Your "feelings" are very lefty...JD

Henlee
02-16-2013, 05:27 AM
It is crazy talk. Bad things happen. I do not like how these actual events are being used to justify restricting freedoms in this country, but to suggest that they are made up is a bridge to far for me.

luvmylabs23139
02-16-2013, 08:53 AM
I would like for the main contributors to this particular portion of this forum to chime in as well to get their take on it, but here is mine...

Just the most recent ones, not Gabby and not Fast and Furious (both of which have had an impact on current gun control legislation).

1. Aurora, Colorado
2. Sandy Hook
3. Chris Kyle (An ignored and forgotten American Hero)
4. Chris Dorner (A Media Hero)

I have firm convictions all of these incidents were all staged, perhaps not all of those involved were a part of the "staged" act, but I have a feeling the government is behind this. I have a major distrust with the current regime and have no reason to think they are above these actions.

Staged no, but as far as Sandy Hook goes ( I'm from the area) They are playing games with facts and they won't discuss the fact that everyone knew the shooter was crazy and should have been locked up years ago.
But no, we can't discuss that the state closed down Fairfield Hills ( where he belonged and would have only been minutes from mom) Gotta let the nuts run loose. They refuse to release any medical records claiming they are protected in CT even in death. That to me says it all. Heck the building( church that is not a church) they showed on the news all the time by the flagpole is where I got married.

HPL
02-16-2013, 09:29 AM
Some kind of a conspiracy? No. The anti-gun forces and their fellow travelers in the news media, however have kept banging the drum and are using these rare occurrences to best advantage.

I have never heard a definitive report on what weapon was actually involved at Sandyhook. Coroner says rifle, witnesses say rifle was still in trunk. That could be a cover up to suit the agenda.

Tom. P.
02-16-2013, 09:33 AM
I believe it was the "RahmFather" that once said "never let a catastrophe go to waste".And im paraphrasing here but with quotations?But I dont think anything was staged per say! Just taking advantage of a terrible thing.Which in itself is despicable!

luvmylabs23139
02-16-2013, 09:39 AM
Some kind of a conspiracy? No. The anti-gun forces and their fellow travelers in the news media have, however have kept banging the drum and are using these rare occurrences to best advantage.

I have never heard a definitive report on what weapon was actually involved at Sandyhook. Coroner says rifle, witnesses say rifle was still in trunk. That could be a cover up to suit the agenda.

He used the rifle. That is not really the point. The guy was crazy and wasn't locked up. He should have been tossed in Fairfield Hills had it not been closed and then somehow lost in the tunnels.

Eric Johnson
02-16-2013, 10:05 AM
...But no, we can't discuss that the state closed down Fairfield Hills ( where he belonged and would have only been minutes from mom) Gotta let the nuts run loose.

[soapbox mode on]

The closure on mental health facilities is happening all over the country. I retired from the state mental health agency in Alabama in 2010. Since I retired, 2 (of 5) mental illness facilities have closed. These 2 served about 600 residents. Within the next 12 months, a third will downsize from about 400 residents to about 200. Within the past 10 years, 2 other facilities have closed serving about 250 residents including the only facility for youth. Also within the past 10 years, all the centers for residents with mental retardation have closed!

These closures are because of two forces that feed off each other. First, there is a move to put residents in the community rather than to isolate them in large facilities. This is a result of pressure by parents and advocates. Second, these facilities need huge capital outlays to maintain and in our case, it was easier to accede to the forces that seek closure than to try to get money to repair them. For example, one of our facilities needed almost 10 million in repairs to the mechanical and electrical systems. Making these repairs would have saved almost $20 million over 20 years but somebody felt it was less expensive just to close the facility. (I had a project worked out that would have paid for the repairs out of the utility savings the repairs would generate.)

Closure of both mental retardation and mental illness facilities is also a hot button within the Federal Ct system. Thus, we closed the mental retardation beds to suit the advocates but there aren't sufficient beds in the community to accept all the people who need them. These folks are living at home, many of them in terrible conditions, program-wise, as opposed living to the mental retardation centers.

What I did was manage the land assets of the agency. We had about 15,000 acres of land all over the state. I worked to keep the land as an income stream that was used for major repairs .... roofs, boilers, elevators, etc. I used to claim to be the only profit center in the entire agency as we had income of over $1 million a year from our land....farm leases, commercial leases, hunting leases, oil-gas drilling rights and leases, etc. Since my retirement, the Dept has sold hundreds of acres of land and used the money for operating expenses. So, where we had an assured income for repairs, now the source of the income is gone and the money was spent in one budget cycle.

In short, the mental health system in this country just can't accommodate folks like the Sandy Hook shooter because the system has deteriorated so badly that it just can't be fixed without huge sums of money that just aren't available. The state facilities have deteriorated so badly because of legislative neglect that they're cheaper to close that to operate. Instead, the money is going to prisons...and so are large numbers of the people the mental health system used to serve.

[soapbox mode off]

HPL
02-16-2013, 10:20 AM
He used the rifle. That is not really the point. The guy was crazy and wasn't locked up. He should have been tossed in Fairfield Hills had it not been closed and then somehow lost in the tunnels.


Where did you read that (bolded) and when? Certainly the public should have been protected from this wacko, but the weapon is actually an important part of the story as it was his weapon that is driving much of the call for weapon bans.

luvmylabs23139
02-16-2013, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=Eric Johnson;1069630][soapbox mode on]

The Sandy hook shooter does not fit the we do not have the money crap. HIs parents were very well off as his father was a GE exec. He was crazy and should have been sent to the nut house. The questions are
Why not locked up.
Dad knew he was messed up but could not do anything ( mom got full custody)
WHY zero media attention about his life just ban weapons???
why cant we see his medical records????
Why is a gunthe issue rather than his medical issues?????
Screw the gun give me the medical records end of story!!!!!

charly_t
02-16-2013, 10:42 AM
[soapbox mode on]

The closure on mental health facilities is happening all over the country. I retired from the state mental health agency in Alabama in 2010. Since I retired, 2 (of 5) mental illness facilities have closed. These 2 served about 600 residents. Within the next 12 months, a third will downsize from about 400 residents to about 200. Within the past 10 years, 2 other facilities have closed serving about 250 residents including the only facility for youth. Also within the past 10 years, all the centers for residents with mental retardation have closed!

These closures are because of two forces that feed off each other. First, there is a move to put residents in the community rather than to isolate them in large facilities. This is a result of pressure by parents and advocates. Second, these facilities need huge capital outlays to maintain and in our case, it was easier to accede to the forces that seek closure than to try to get money to repair them. For example, one of our facilities needed almost 10 million in repairs to the mechanical and electrical systems. Making these repairs would have saved almost $20 million over 20 years but somebody felt it was less expensive just to close the facility. (I had a project worked out that would have paid for the repairs out of the utility savings the repairs would generate.)

Closure of both mental retardation and mental illness facilities is also a hot button within the Federal Ct system. Thus, we closed the mental retardation beds to suit the advocates but there aren't sufficient beds in the community to accept all the people who need them. These folks are living at home, many of them in terrible conditions, program-wise, as opposed living to the mental retardation centers.

What I did was manage the land assets of the agency. We had about 15,000 acres of land all over the state. I worked to keep the land as an income stream that was used for major repairs .... roofs, boilers, elevators, etc. I used to claim to be the only profit center in the entire agency as we had income of over $1 million a year from our land....farm leases, commercial leases, hunting leases, oil-gas drilling rights and leases, etc. Since my retirement, the Dept has sold hundreds of acres of land and used the money for operating expenses. So, where we had an assured income for repairs, now the source of the income is gone and the money was spent in one budget cycle.

In short, the mental health system in this country just can't accommodate folks like the Sandy Hook shooter because the system has deteriorated so badly that it just can't be fixed without huge sums of money that just aren't available. The state facilities have deteriorated so badly because of legislative neglect that they're cheaper to close that to operate. Instead, the money is going to prisons...and so are large numbers of the people the mental health system used to serve.

[soapbox mode off]

Very, very good post. You made some great points.

Henlee
02-16-2013, 10:47 AM
I will say as far as Conspiriacy goes, that I don't believe there would have been a push for an assault weopons ban if Sandy Hook happened before the election.

luvmylabs23139
02-16-2013, 11:09 AM
Where did you read that (bolded)

Forget what anyone reads. I would much rather go with my local sources on the ground that I know and trust. I grew up 20 minutes from Sandy Hook. I personally know first reponders. Years ago all of local 911 was dispatched out of Newtown as regional. When I ran emt out of NF Newtown was our dispatch. Who would I believe a bunch of CT liberal idiot politians or those that I worked with?

luvmylabs23139
02-16-2013, 11:20 AM
[soapbox mode on]

The closure on mental health facilities is happening all over the country. I retired from the state mental health agency in Alabama in 2010. Since I retired, 2 (of 5) mental illness facilities have closed. These 2 served about 600 residents. Within the next 12 months, a third will downsize from about 400 residents to about 200. Within the past 10 years, 2 other facilities have closed serving about 250 residents including the only facility for youth. Also within the past 10 years, all the centers for residents with mental retardation have closed!

These closures are because of two forces that feed off each other. First, there is a move to put residents in the community rather than to isolate them in large facilities. This is a result of pressure by parents and advocates. Second, these facilities need huge capital outlays to maintain and in our case, it was easier to accede to the forces that seek closure than to try to get money to repair them. For example, one of our facilities needed almost 10 million in repairs to the mechanical and electrical systems. Making these repairs would have saved almost $20 million over 20 years but somebody felt it was less expensive just to close the facility. (I had a project worked out that would have paid for the repairs out of the utility savings the repairs would generate.)

Closure of both mental retardation and mental illness facilities is also a hot button within the Federal Ct system. Thus, we closed the mental retardation beds to suit the advocates but there aren't sufficient beds in the community to accept all the people who need them. These folks are living at home, many of them in terrible conditions, program-wise, as opposed living to the mental retardation centers.

What I did was manage the land assets of the agency. We had about 15,000 acres of land all over the state. I worked to keep the land as an income stream that was used for major repairs .... roofs, boilers, elevators, etc. I used to claim to be the only profit center in the entire agency as we had income of over $1 million a year from our land....farm leases, commercial leases, hunting leases, oil-gas drilling rights and leases, etc. Since my retirement, the Dept has sold hundreds of acres of land and used the money for operating expenses. So, where we had an assured income for repairs, now the source of the income is gone and the money was spent in one budget cycle.

In short, the mental health system in this country just can't accommodate folks like the Sandy Hook shooter because the system has deteriorated so badly that it just can't be fixed without huge sums of money that just aren't available. The state facilities have deteriorated so badly because of legislative neglect that they're cheaper to close that to operate. Instead, the money is going to prisons...and so are large numbers of the people the mental health system used to serve.

[soapbox mode off]

Money was not the issue in this case! Remember his father was a bigwig GE exec. Of course that is never talked about as we cant have GE be in a bad light. Afterall GE bought bumma a presidency so what ever.

HPL
02-16-2013, 12:14 PM
Forget what anyone reads. I would much rather go with my local sources on the ground that I know and trust. I grew up 20 minutes from Sandy Hook. I personally know first reponders. Years ago all of local 911 was dispatched out of Newtown as regional. When I ran emt out of NF Newtown was our dispatch. Who would I believe a bunch of CT liberal idiot politians or those that I worked with?

OK, so perhaps I shouldhave asked "How do you know that? I have read conflicting stories and the long gun story plays right into the anti gun agenda so I am a bit hesitant to take that at face value from the early conflicting reports." Then your answer could have been "I have spoken personally with some of the first folks on the scene and they said that he did indeed have the long gun in the school and it was a different one in the trunk".

RailRoadRetrievers
02-18-2013, 12:21 PM
Please cite some evidence. Your "feelings" are very lefty...JD

Evidence for which statement....