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View Full Version : Democrats Seek to Ban Hunting Ammunition in Wisconsin



Daniel J Simoens
02-18-2013, 12:31 PM
http://mediatrackers.org/2013/02/15/democrats-seek-to-ban-hunting-ammunition-in-wisconsin/

"A Democratic state senator and three Democratic state representatives have circulated draft legislation that would ban civilian possession of hollow point or frangible ammunition. According to existing Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources regulations, sportsmen and women in Wisconsin must use such ammunition when hunting deer or bear. The Democratic lawmakers, two of whom are freshman, all hail from urban districts in the City of Milwaukee.

The reasoning behind the legislation is a bit muddled. The impact, however, is quite clear. According to a legislative counsel review of the legislation, it would essentially make it impossible for civilians to hunt deer or bear in Wisconsin.

“The provision in the bill draft that provides whoever intentionally sells, transports or possesses any bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body is guilty of a Class H felony conflicts with current DNR hunting rules. Under s. NR 10.09 (1)(c)2., ‘no person shall hunt any deer or bear with any air rifle, rim-fire rifle, any center-fire rifle less than .22 caliber, any .410 bore or less shotgun or handgun loaded with .410 shotgun shell ammunition or with ammunition loaded with nonexpanding type bullets or ammunition loaded with shot other than a single slug or projectile.’ The bill draft does not provide an exception to the prohibition on possessing expanding bullets for deer or bear hunting.” (Emphasis added)"


rookies :rofl:

mngundog
02-18-2013, 12:41 PM
http://mediatrackers.org/2013/02/15/democrats-seek-to-ban-hunting-ammunition-in-wisconsin/

"A Democratic state senator and three Democratic state representatives have circulated draft legislation that would ban civilian possession of hollow point or frangible ammunition. According to existing Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources regulations, sportsmen and women in Wisconsin must use such ammunition when hunting deer or bear. The Democratic lawmakers, two of whom are freshman, all hail from urban districts in the City of Milwaukee.

The reasoning behind the legislation is a bit muddled. The impact, however, is quite clear. According to a legislative counsel review of the legislation, it would essentially make it impossible for civilians to hunt deer or bear in Wisconsin.

“The provision in the bill draft that provides whoever intentionally sells, transports or possesses any bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body is guilty of a Class H felony conflicts with current DNR hunting rules. Under s. NR 10.09 (1)(c)2., ‘no person shall hunt any deer or bear with any air rifle, rim-fire rifle, any center-fire rifle less than .22 caliber, any .410 bore or less shotgun or handgun loaded with .410 shotgun shell ammunition or with ammunition loaded with nonexpanding type bullets or ammunition loaded with shot other than a single slug or projectile.’ The bill draft does not provide an exception to the prohibition on possessing expanding bullets for deer or bear hunting.” (Emphasis added)"


rookies :rofl:
Although the legislation is dumb, we hunt deer and bear all the time with non-hollow point bullets. An expanding bullet doesn't necessarily make it a hollow point, a pretty typical example would be a shotgun slug.

road kill
02-18-2013, 01:49 PM
Although the legislation is dumb, we hunt deer and bear all the time with non-hollow point bullets. An expanding bullet doesn't necessarily make it a hollow point, a pretty typical example would be a shotgun slug.
YEP, nuttin' like huntin' white tail with FMJ rounds!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mngundog
02-18-2013, 02:05 PM
YEP, nuttin' like huntin' white tail with FMJ rounds!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm in live in a slug only zone, so I would say about 80% of whitetail hunters (in my area) use non-jacketed, non-hollow point slugs.

road kill
02-18-2013, 02:11 PM
I'm in live in a slug only zone, so I would say about 80% of whitetail hunters (in my area) use non-jacketed, non-hollow point slugs.

Oh, well as long as you are happy...................I hunt with a 30.06 165 grn boat tail hollow point.

It is designed specifically for big game such as whitetail.

I guess I'll have to switch the slugs so as progressives can feel better!!??!!??


Oh, and BTW--This will solve what????

mngundog
02-18-2013, 03:01 PM
Oh, well as long as you are happy...................I hunt with a 30.06 165 grn boat tail hollow point.

It is designed specifically for big game such as whitetail.

I guess I'll have to switch the slugs so as progressives can feel better!!??!!??


Oh, and BTW--This will solve what????
Stan, as I said in my earlier post it is a dumb piece of legislation, and just pointing out that the journalism was bad do to the fact that they did little if any research on the matter and the journalist apparently fooled a forum member.

sick lids
02-18-2013, 03:02 PM
They just might regulate a need for 30rd mags and 50 cal. BMGs lol.

I am willing to bet one of these state senators has a son that was arrested for slashing republican vans tires a while back on election day. I also remember her crying in congress, comparing requiring an ID to vote to Nazi Germany. Low info voters = low info representation!

Haven't hunted deer in 3-4 years but my prefered method was 500-600gr arrows. Some would have preferred the 7mm 140gr. ballistic silver tips tho. I probably wont hunt deer until the DNR gets its head out of its rump. I personally would like to see some sort of antler restrictions.

Isn't frangible ammo supposed to be less lethal?

zeus3925
02-18-2013, 03:46 PM
Just goes to show there are some dim $#!@s in this world that draft legislation they know nothing about.

Dan Storts
02-18-2013, 03:55 PM
Just goes to show there are some dim $#!@s in this world that draft legislation they know nothing about.

Exactly but the problem is something crazy like this is put forth and everyone pays attention. Then while your looking at this they pass something, and this would be just a example, we will allow hollow points but now no lead bullets are allowed.

starjack
02-18-2013, 03:59 PM
They just might regulate a need for 30rd mags and 50 cal. BMGs lol.

I am willing to bet one of these state senators has a son that was arrested for slashing republican vans tires a while back on election day. I also remember her crying in congress, comparing requiring an ID to vote to Nazi Germany. Low info voters = low info representation!

Haven't hunted deer in 3-4 years but my prefered method was 500-600gr arrows. Some would have preferred the 7mm 140gr. ballistic silver tips tho. I probably wont hunt deer until the DNR gets its head out of its rump. I personally would like to see some sort of antler restrictions.

Isn't frangible ammo supposed to be less lethal?Could you elaborate on antler restrictions

sick lids
02-18-2013, 04:21 PM
I have never met a deer hunter who didn't want to kill big bucks. What I would like to see is a reg that protects young bucks, say a shooter must have 12" spikes or have three points on 1 side to be legal. This would be kind of an honor system with no real penalties for shooting a smaller deer. I would think a $10 dollar fine going to land acquisition would be acceptable to most hunters. If you want to shoot a small buck go ahead it is only going to cost you 10 bucks and a little shame at the reg station. We could also nix the restriction for first time hunters. It got to be disheartening to travel 2-3 hundred miles to hunt, pass on several small bucks only to have them shot over the next ridge, or spend lots of money on land leases to have deer walk just out of range.

starjack
02-18-2013, 04:36 PM
What about the handicapped or our seniors? what about the guy strickly out for the meat why should they be punished? If you spend money on a lease and they walk out of range that is hunting. You say you were a archery hunter you know that happens all the time on your lease. I do not know how your pheasant population is by you but here it is lousy and they have implemented a pheasant stamp for ten dollars going on four yrs now and they have done nothing to help the pheasants. So thanks but no thanks on a ten dollar fine for shooting a deer that does not approve of what one shoots.

sick lids
02-18-2013, 05:50 PM
What about the handicapped or our seniors? They could be excluded. what about the guy strickly out for the meat why should they be punished?They can shoot does, not to mention there is more meat on a 200lb buck than on a 125lb spike. If you spend money on a lease and they walk out of range that is hunting. You say you were a archery hunter you know that happens all the time on your lease. I do not know how your pheasant population is by you but here it is lousy and they have implemented a pheasant stamp for ten dollars going on four yrs now and they have done nothing to help the pheasants.I would look into the days that they stock the birds that is what the stamp and tags are for. And I hear it mostly sucks its WI not the plains. So thanks but no thanks on a ten dollar fine for shooting a deer that does not approve of what one shoots.I think most hunters spend more then ten dollars on gas getting to where they hunt, and as stated the $10 would go to make hunting better.

I did not intend to offend you but you asked. I will continue to be one of the growing number of people that opt out of deer hunting until the DNR can also manage for quality along with quantity. Maybe one of the deer that I do not kill can wind up on your wall.

HPL
02-18-2013, 09:11 PM
They just might regulate a need for 30rd mags and 50 cal. BMGs lol.

I am willing to bet one of these state senators has a son that was arrested for slashing republican vans tires a while back on election day. I also remember her crying in congress, comparing requiring an ID to vote to Nazi Germany. Low info voters = low info representation!

Haven't hunted deer in 3-4 years but my prefered method was 500-600gr arrows. Some would have preferred the 7mm 140gr. ballistic silver tips tho. I probably wont hunt deer until the DNR gets its head out of its rump. I personally would like to see some sort of antler restrictions.

Isn't frangible ammo supposed to be less lethal?

Frangibles are primarily designed to deliver all the energy to the intended target without passing through and killing or injuring others. They also have very low penetration ability in things like sheet rock walls etc so no going through the wall and striking an unintended target. I think plenty lethal if fired into a soft target like an unarmored human, but you are right, if the idea is to prevent "collateral damage" banning them doesn't really make sense. I would think that hollow points are also less likely to do a through and through, although they certainly can pass through some wall materials retaining enough energy to cause a problem.

shawninthesticks
02-18-2013, 09:44 PM
Could you elaborate on antler restrictions

In Missouri the antler restriction goes like this... 4 point minimum on 1 side ,no matter the size of rack (4 point half rack is the bottom end).However this does not apply to youth tags on youth weekend only ,the law is in effect for youths during any other season and applies with all legal methods of hunting.

This has been in effect for about 3-4 years in an attempt to let bucks mature ,thus produce more trophy deer for harvest (and bring in more $$$). There are several area's that are starting to do away with the restriction (Like where Mark and Terry Drury's NE MO farm is ) I dont know exactly why ,but the rumors I have heard range from -deer populations are at a all time high ,- since deer populations are so high we are seeing a lot of blue tongue disease killing the heards off. I've also heard that the severe drought has limited the water supply to stagnant water sources and the blue tongue was spread much quicker due to the fact that animals with blue tongue are contaminating the limited water sources.

I have locally seen a noticable decline in deer in general last season at places that where always good for some does feeding. Several farmer friends have commented that they have seen multiple cascaras on their property.

I dont think the antler restriction has panned out like they had hoped.

It also eliminates buck management since you cant take out the little basket racks that are mature and that will never amount to a hill of beans ,but still end up reproducing, so we have generations of them to follow.

HPL
02-18-2013, 10:39 PM
In Missouri the antler restriction goes like this... 4 point minimum on 1 side ,no matter the size of rack (4 point half rack is the bottom end).However this does not apply to youth tags on youth weekend only ,the law is in effect for youths during any other season and applies with all legal methods of hunting.

This has been in effect for about 3-4 years in an attempt to let bucks mature ,thus produce more trophy deer for harvest (and bring in more $$$). There are several area's that are starting to do away with the restriction (Like where Mark and Terry Drury's NE MO farm is ) I dont know exactly why ,but the rumors I have heard range from -deer populations are at a all time high ,- since deer populations are so high we are seeing a lot of blue tongue disease killing the heards off. I've also heard that the severe drought has limited the water supply to stagnant water sources and the blue tongue was spread much quicker due to the fact that animals with blue tongue are contaminating the limited water sources.

I have locally seen a noticable decline in deer in general last season at places that where always good for some does feeding. Several farmer friends have commented that they have seen multiple cascaras on their property.

I dont think the antler restriction has panned out like they had hoped.

It also eliminates buck management since you cant take out the little basket racks that are mature and that will never amount to a hill of beans ,but still end up reproducing, so we have generations of them to follow.


This just doesn't sound like state of the art management to me. We have known for many years that many of the bucks with good antler genes will produce six or even eight points their first year. Spikes generally do not mature into trophy bucks. Most of the managers I know have, for years, been culling spikes and mid-sized six and eight points (often these six, eight, and even ten points) are mature deer that just don't have the genetics to produce trophy racks. You pass over the small bodied young looking six and eight points as they are the cohort from which future trophy animals come. I realize that this is pretty hard to do on public lands, and when implemented on public lands is really best accomplished through vigorous hunter education programs.

starjack
02-19-2013, 01:48 PM
What about the handicapped or our seniors? They could be excluded. what about the guy strickly out for the meat why should they be punished?They can shoot does, not to mention there is more meat on a 200lb buck than on a 125lb spike. If you spend money on a lease and they walk out of range that is hunting. You say you were a archery hunter you know that happens all the time on your lease. I do not know how your pheasant population is by you but here it is lousy and they have implemented a pheasant stamp for ten dollars going on four yrs now and they have done nothing to help the pheasants.I would look into the days that they stock the birds that is what the stamp and tags are for. And I hear it mostly sucks its WI not the plains. So thanks but no thanks on a ten dollar fine for shooting a deer that does not approve of what one shoots.I think most hunters spend more then ten dollars on gas getting to where they hunt, and as stated the $10 would go to make hunting better.

I did not intend to offend you but you asked. I will continue to be one of the growing number of people that opt out of deer hunting until the DNR can also manage for quality along with quantity. Maybe one of the deer that I do not kill can wind up on your wall.No offence taken. I could go on a trip down memory lane about how there was good bird hunting in wis . I do remember the days of the hungarians. I have the luxury of hunting both QDM land and non the ones on the non only care about the meat if i hunt it i respect that . The one on QDM i respect that to. As for shooting does you do remember earn a buck it took a hard toll on the deer pop. It is just starting to come back a little. so no does for me.
You stae there is more meat on 200 lb buck than a 125 spike that is ture but how many 200 lb come walking by versus the 125 for the average hope i see a deer hunter.

duk4me
02-19-2013, 02:05 PM
A few years back our area inacted rules that made a legal buck a spike, a buck with one unbranched antler, or a 13 inch spread. 13 inches is the approx distance from ear to ear on our bucks. All hell broke loose about how unfair it was.

Now trophy bucks are regularly taken in our area. Of course a trophy buck here and a trophy buck in Kansas are two different things. A 140 class buck would be exceptional here. Just as many bucks are being killed now that they have gotten the extra year or two to grow.

Of course the model works here, I'm not saying it will work everywhere.

Bubba
02-19-2013, 02:36 PM
Just goes to show there are some dim $#!@s in this world that draft legislation they know nothing about.

YUP- couldn't agree more. We call um Democrats just for simplicity

Pass it to learn what is in it regards

Bubba

HPL
02-20-2013, 02:46 PM
A few years back our area inacted rules that made a legal buck a spike, a buck with one unbranched antler, or a 13 inch spread. 13 inches is the approx distance from ear to ear on our bucks. All hell broke loose about how unfair it was.

Now trophy bucks are regularly taken in our area. Of course a trophy buck here and a trophy buck in Kansas are two different things. A 140 class buck would be exceptional here. Just as many bucks are being killed now that they have gotten the extra year or two to grow.

Of course the model works here, I'm not saying it will work everywhere.

This sounds a lot closer to a trophy management scheme to me. I'm assuming that does are also allowed?

duk4me
02-20-2013, 03:08 PM
This sounds a lot closer to a trophy management scheme to me. I'm assuming that does are also allowed?

No it is county wide, Morris County TX. Does are only allowed Thurs. Fri. Sat. and Sun. of Thanksgiving holidays. It is in the Texas regs. It also varies our neighbor Cass Co. has a different doe season. But, it is not a private trophy management shceme at all and it has been succesful.

HPL
02-20-2013, 03:16 PM
You misinterpreted my comment. That scheme is very similar to a trophy management scheme. I was aware from your post that you weren't talking about some private ranch instituting a program, but a public attempt to improve the "quality" of the deer by implementing some rules that closely resemble the rules one might find on a well managed ranch. (only four days of doe season? Is Morris Co a low deer population area?)

sick lids
02-20-2013, 03:39 PM
So you guys shoot spikes? Up here a lot of deer wont get branches till 2 then at 3 look out!

duk4me
02-20-2013, 03:45 PM
You misinterpreted my comment. That scheme is very similar to a trophy management scheme. I was aware from your post that you weren't talking about some private ranch instituting a program, but a public attempt to improve the "quality" of the deer by implementing some rules that closely resemble the rules one might find on a well managed ranch. (only four days of doe season? Is Morris Co a low deer population area?)

My bad, we are a very small county. It is mostly cattle or timber with very little farming. There is decent hunting but yes I would catagorize us as a low density population County.