PDA

View Full Version : You might be a neocon if...



mudminnow
02-24-2013, 01:42 PM
I think I will take Jeff foxworthy's approach for this issue. Feel free to add more and ask questions. Neocon can be used derogatively or as a description to differentiate between the paleo cons

You might be a neocon if...

You think we can solve the Middle East issues with our military

You say you want smaller government as long as there is no cut in military spending

You claim to want less intrusive govt but support the patriot act

You say you are pro life, yet support the killing of civilians overseas and comfort yourself by saying its collateral damage

You don't care that citizens of the US can legally be killed by drones.


Those are what I can think of now, as a former neocon myself, I finally changed when I would hear stories of Palestinian, Iraqi, afghan, and Syrian Christians who had family members blown up for no reason other than they were living in a Muslim area. This shook me to my core and has led me to pursue non intervention candidates.

zeus3925
02-24-2013, 04:35 PM
You might be a neocon if you are prolife and support the death penalty.

Marvin S
02-24-2013, 05:39 PM
Those are what I can think of now, as a former neocon myself, I finally changed when I would hear stories of Palestinian, Iraqi, afghan, and Syrian Christians who had family members blown up for no reason other than they were living in a Muslim area. This shook me to my core and has led me to pursue non intervention candidates.

Have you read "The Source" by Michener?

You are equating personal beliefs with something far more complicated than I think you understand - especially if your source is Jeff Foxworthy :confused:.

mudminnow
02-24-2013, 06:09 PM
No I have not but I will look into "the source".
And Jeff foxworthy is not a source, I was just using his "you might be a redneck" style.

Zeus, I would not consider that a neocon thing. I think it is a valid thought for anyone to go through. I could easily flip that on the prochoice crowd that is not necessarily pro choice but pro their choice(food, health care, protection...)

Neocons increase the size and control of the government in the name of national security.

coachmo
02-24-2013, 06:22 PM
Zeus, where do you come up with this stuff? So let's get this straight if you are against an innocent life being taken and are in favor of a murderer being executed then you're a neocon. Wow! Doesn't surprise me though that a liberal like yourself thinks that way. Aren't most liberals for abortion and against the death penalty? What exactly does that say about the liberal mindset?

zeus3925
02-24-2013, 06:25 PM
Zeus, where do you come up with this stuff? So let's get this straight if you are against an innocent life being taken and are in favor of a murderer being executed then you're a neocon. Wow! Doesn't surprise me though that a liberal like yourself thinks that way. Aren't most liberals for abortion and against the death penalty? What exactly does that say about the liberal mindset?
I don't know, you might have to ask a liberal.

JDogger
02-24-2013, 06:54 PM
Zeus, where do you come up with this stuff? So let's get this straight if you are against an innocent life being taken and are in favor of a murderer being executed then you're a neocon. Wow! Doesn't surprise me though that a liberal like yourself thinks that way. Aren't most liberals for abortion and against the death penalty? What exactly does that say about the liberal mindset?

I don't remember ever meeting or speaking to anyone of any politcal persuasion that was "FOR" abortion. JD

coachmo
02-24-2013, 08:17 PM
I stand corrected no one is for abortion even the women that have multiple abortions as a means of birth control. You're right jdogger as usual. But you're probably alright with that since it's their choice.

JDogger
02-24-2013, 09:06 PM
I stand corrected no one is for abortion even the women that have multiple abortions as a means of birth control. You're right jdogger as usual. But you're probably alright with that since it's their choice.

I am not "all right" with abortion as a means of birth control. I believe preventive measures are preferable. Unfortunetly we can not hold all people responsible for their bad judgement, and I for one do not wish for you, me, or the state to raise their child for them. Do you?
JD
The whole "when does life begin, has been debated," both here and elsewhere, infinitum. Lets not start this again. I'll go out on a limb here, since I'm not quite the bleeding heart liberal you seem to think I am. I'm a pragmatist. Cull them now or cull them later. Remember, I have been defined as a "secular progressive". I'm probably also well described as a neocon. Both terms are used here to convey negative conotations of those we feel have differing views.
The brush often paints broadly on PP, from both sides
. JD

road kill
02-25-2013, 05:54 AM
You might be a neocon if you are prolife and support the death penalty.

I guess by this definition, I am a NEO-CON.

I believe in the execution of the perp of a heinous crime where a life is taken..

I belive in the sanctity of life, especially in the innocent unborn.

If you believe in the 88% of abortions committed last year in the USA for convenience are OK, and murderers should be allowed to live and, if you think "socio-economic factors should be used to determine when abortions SHOULD occur, then you might be a "secular progressive.":cool:


Just maybe!!!!

HPL
02-25-2013, 06:41 AM
So what are you if you are pro-choice, even more pro-contraception, pro-death penalty, and really don't give a rat's about some "collateral damage" in areas where we are fighting our enemies?

HPL
02-25-2013, 06:49 AM
I think I will take Jeff foxworthy's approach for this issue. Feel free to add more and ask questions. Neocon can be used derogatively or as a description to differentiate between the paleo cons

You might be a neocon if...

You think we can solve the Middle East issues with our military Actually, I think that we COULD solve our problems in the middle east with our military, but wiping them all out is just not politically viable.

You say you want smaller government as long as there is no cut in military spending

You claim to want less intrusive govt but support the patriot act Have never supported the "Patriot" act. Even the name makes me think of "Newspeak".

You say you are pro life, yet support the killing of civilians overseas and comfort yourself by saying its collateral damage

You don't care that citizens of the US can legally be killed by drones. How about we use "wet teams" instead. When does a "citizen" become an "enemy combatant"?


Those are what I can think of now, as a former neocon myself, I finally changed when I would hear stories of Palestinian, Iraqi, afghan, and Syrian Christians who had family members blown up for no reason other than they were living in a Muslim area. This shook me to my core and has led me to pursue non intervention candidates.


Where does that put me?

Pete
02-25-2013, 06:58 AM
I don't remember ever meeting or speaking to anyone of any politcal persuasion that was "FOR" abortion. JD
I would imagine a white supremacist would want most black babies aborted and a nazi group would be all for all aborted jewish babies,,,so on and so forth.

Eugenics is alive and well today and gaining great momentum actually. I believe s.caralina sterilized 7600 woman against their will between the early 1900's and thee early 70's. They are a little more subtle about it now, Hell,,,, did you read about the spermicidal gmo's they are coming up with.

I had to throw this atcha JD ,,,I didn't want anybody thinkin you agree with me to much

Pete

Franco
02-25-2013, 07:08 AM
I think I will take Jeff foxworthy's approach for this issue. Feel free to add more and ask questions. Neocon can be used derogatively or as a description to differentiate between the paleo cons

You might be a neocon if...

You think we can solve the Middle East issues with our military

You say you want smaller government as long as there is no cut in military spending

You claim to want less intrusive govt but support the patriot act

You say you are pro life, yet support the killing of civilians overseas and comfort yourself by saying its collateral damage

You don't care that citizens of the US can legally be killed by drones.


Those are what I can think of now, as a former neocon myself, I finally changed when I would hear stories of Palestinian, Iraqi, afghan, and Syrian Christians who had family members blown up for no reason other than they were living in a Muslim area. This shook me to my core and has led me to pursue non intervention candidates.

It didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked into an abortion debate.

You are a NeoCon if you voted for Romney. Probably believe in Crony Capitalism too.

You are a NeoCon if you support the spending by both the Dems and Repubs.

You are a NeoCon if you see nothing wrong with the huge Lobbying industry in DC.

You are a NeoCon if you are a Repub and support the Status Quo.

BonMallari
02-25-2013, 07:34 AM
It didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked into an abortion debate.

You are a NeoCon if you voted for Romney. Probably believe in Crony Capitalism too.

You are a NeoCon if you support the spending by both the Dems and Repubs.

You are a NeoCon if you see nothing wrong with the huge Lobbying industry in DC.

You are a NeoCon if you are a Repub and support the Status Quo.

of all those the only one I did was vote for Romney....not quite sure why everyone want to stick a label on everyone..Its like you are trying to make the word Neocon seem like a dirty word...Neo conservative...You are always trying to tout yourself as a True Conservative, which is the same mistake ALL the Republican candidates tried to do in the primaries..There is no prize for being the most conservative or a true conservative...it also doesnt mean the anyone who is a Neo Conservative us any less American or any less patriotic than the next guy...Quit trying to label everyone that isnt in lockstep ideologically with you and your "Band of Five"

huntinman
02-25-2013, 07:40 AM
You are a NeoCon if your hat doesn't have a propeller?

road kill
02-25-2013, 07:46 AM
It didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked into an abortion debate.
You are a NeoCon if you voted for Romney. Probably believe in Crony Capitalism too.

You are a NeoCon if you support the spending by both the Dems and Repubs.

You are a NeoCon if you see nothing wrong with the huge Lobbying industry in DC.

You are a NeoCon if you are a Repub and support the Status Quo.

No debate here, I simply responded to zeus' post.




You might be a neocon if you are prolife and support the death penalty.


My response was clear and concise, admitting I would be categorized as such and proud of it based on the criteria HE set forth.




I guess by this definition, I am a NEO-CON.

I believe in the execution of the perp of a heinous crime where a life is taken..

I belive in the sanctity of life, especially in the innocent unborn.

If you believe in the 88% of abortions committed last year in the USA for convenience are OK, and murderers should be allowed to live and, if you think "socio-economic factors should be used to determine when abortions SHOULD occur, then you might be a "secular progressive."


Just maybe!!!!

Franco
02-25-2013, 08:06 AM
of all those the only one I did was vote for Romney....not quite sure why everyone want to stick a label on everyone..Its like you are trying to make the word Neocon seem like a dirty word...Neo conservative...You are always trying to tout yourself as a True Conservative, which is the same mistake ALL the Republican candidates tried to do in the primaries..There is no prize for being the most conservative or a true conservative...it also doesnt mean the anyone who is a Neo Conservative us any less American or any less patriotic than the next guy...Quit trying to label everyone that isnt in lockstep ideologically with you and your "Band of Five"

If you are OK with the unchecked spending, the support of Special Interest, policing the world, subsidies, Patriot Act and other legislation promoted by the NeoCons, then you can have it. Conservative use to stand for something, as it use to mean something. By you definition, it doesn't and can be anything.

road kill
02-25-2013, 08:10 AM
If you are OK with the unchecked spending, the support of Special Interest, policing the world, subsidies, Patriot Act and other legislation promoted by the NeoCons, then you can have it. Conservative use to stand for something, as it use to mean something. By you definition, it doesn't and can be anything.
Could you possibly list the names and the legislation anyone has passed in, oh, say the last 20+ years that you would consider conservative?
Any bills that anyone has authored, sponsored and gotten passed?


Legitimate question...................

road kill
02-25-2013, 08:14 AM
If standing by our allies in the ME (Israel) and protecting them from "extermination" is a NEO-CON trait.

Guilty as charged.

mudminnow
02-25-2013, 08:20 AM
Where does that put me?

It puts you in the neocon camp. If you think "wiping them all out" is a good idea, just not "politically viable", then i would say you fit in stride with them. That is morally bankrupt idea, that unfortunately popular in the neocon crowd. Most of them could care less about the US until we blow up one of their family members who had nothing to do with terrorism. That is what we are doing right now in afghanistan and throughout the middle east and africa with our drones. By killing one terrorist we make ten more. Look up a term called blowback, its a foreign policy term.

I don't think we should have "wet teams" killing people in countries that we are not at war with. I don't think we should have drones killing people in countries we are not a war with. All we are doing are making more terrorists and helping to bankrupt our country with this fictitious "war on terror".

BonMallari
02-25-2013, 08:41 AM
If you are OK with the unchecked spending, the support of Special Interest, policing the world, subsidies, Patriot Act and other legislation promoted by the NeoCons, then you can have it. Conservative use to stand for something, as it use to mean something. By you definition, it doesn't and can be anything.

again with the ideology....never said I was OK with your list

Stan and I differ on how to teach a dog running blinds

Bill and I differ on what is the best caliber for deer hunting

Mike and I differ on what is wrong with the Cowboys

we might all be NeoCons, but we dont let our minor differences on the political issues come between us...You might think its bloodsport to be divisive, go for it if thats what floats your boat...I dont expect ANYONE to be lockstep issue for issue with me..makes me no better,no more patriotic, no more American

dont equate a vote for a certain candidate as a rubber stamp for ALL that candidate believes in...just because I voted for Mitt doesnt mean I want to join the Mormon church and put Mirk on the hood of the pathfinder

zeus3925
02-25-2013, 08:44 AM
I guess by this definition, I am a NEO-CON.

I believe in the execution of the perp of a heinous crime where a life is taken..

I belive in the sanctity of life, especially in the innocent unborn.

If you believe in the 88% of abortions committed last year in the USA for convenience are OK, and murderers should be allowed to live and, if you think "socio-economic factors should be used to determine when abortions SHOULD occur, then you might be a "secular progressive.":cool:


Just maybe!!!!

I would be with you if juries had 100% accuracy. There have been too many cases where the juries condemned innocent people. Life in jail (without TV) or liberty) is a very tough punishment in itself. I do not recommend trying it.

mudminnow
02-25-2013, 10:17 AM
again with the ideology....never said I was OK with your list

Stan and I differ on how to teach a dog running blinds

Bill and I differ on what is the best caliber for deer hunting

Mike and I differ on what is wrong with the Cowboys

we might all be NeoCons, but we dont let our minor differences on the political issues come between us...You might think its bloodsport to be divisive, go for it if thats what floats your boat...I dont expect ANYONE to be lockstep issue for issue with me..makes me no better,no more patriotic, no more American

dont equate a vote for a certain candidate as a rubber stamp for ALL that candidate believes in...just because I voted for Mitt doesnt mean I want to join the Mormon church and put Mirk on the hood of the pathfinder

Bon, i get what you are saying and i understand it. My dad and I have the same discussions, and i know we agree on most of the same things but when i go more radical with a vote he chooses the lesser of two evils. I don't ant to come across as if you don't believe these things then you are dumb. Most, what i would call conservatives, agree with the libertarian ideology of, responsible budget and government should stay out of everyday decisions (neocons say " government should stay out of everyday decisions unless i can get it to help me). Unfortunately, the social issues and foreign policy is where the divide is. I think these are big issues that if explained properly to the conservative base, could get us a more Liberty loving candidate.

I don't support gay marriage, but i also don't support state sponsored permission slips to get married. The only reason it is a big deal is because of govt programs that give perks to married folks (taxes and benefits). That is dumb and a waste of money.

I support the defense of our nation, but not our nation's offensive foreign policy. GWB was elected on how we should not police the world and should bring our troops home. He was right and I think that is a safer and cheaper policy than ours today where we fight al qaeda in afghanistan and support them in libya and syria. We need to be like GWB in 2000 and bring our troops home from the over 100 countries they are in and only use them for defense.

I voted for Gary Johnson, but like you i did not agree with everything he said. More importantly i did not vote for romney because i had issues with his fake deficit reductions, tax reform plan that would still allow crony capitalism, and aggressive foreign policy with blind support for Israel.

road kill
02-25-2013, 10:19 AM
I would be with you if juries had 100% accuracy. There have been too many cases where the juries condemned innocent people. Life in jail (without TV) or liberty) is a very tough punishment in itself. I do not recommend trying it.
So we have a slight difference of opinion.
That's cool by me.
I would still shoot ducks with you!!!!;-)

huntinman
02-25-2013, 10:37 AM
I would be with you if juries had 100% accuracy. There have been too many cases where the juries condemned innocent people. Life in jail (without TV) or liberty) is a very tough punishment in itself. I do not recommend trying it.

For every case like that, I would bet there are 10 where the prison system paroled or otherwise let out of jail some career criminal who proceeded to kill, rape, rob, mug, traffic drugs etc... Again. No system is perfect, but I think the errors by far benefit the bad guys. You know what the recidivism rates are in this country.

road kill
02-25-2013, 10:41 AM
For every case like that, I would bet there are 10 where the prison system paroled or otherwise let out of jail some career criminal who proceeded to kill, rape, rob, mug, traffic drugs etc... Again. No system is perfect, but I think the errors by far benefit the bad guys. You know what the recidivism rates are in this country.

Ya think?

80% of violent crime is committed by REPEAT OFFENDERS!!!!!


I could solve that for ya........

NEO-CON regards!

Marvin S
02-25-2013, 10:42 AM
I don't support gay marriage, but i also don't support state sponsored permission slips to get married.

There is a very good reason for the permission slips. It has to do with the children :confused:.

Tom. P.
02-25-2013, 10:46 AM
You are a NeoCon if your hat doesn't have a propeller?

How bout my tinfoil hat?
Does that count?

mudminnow
02-25-2013, 11:16 AM
There is a very good reason for the permission slips. It has to do with the children :confused:.

Seriously, is someone who is going to inbreed going to worry first to get the state to sign off on there marriage to their sister? :confused:

Marvin S
02-25-2013, 11:23 AM
Seriously, is someone who is going to inbreed going to worry first to get the state to sign off on there marriage to their sister? :confused:

I read "God's Little Acre" by Erskine Caldwell when I was 16 - I didn't know that still existed - but then again, it was before I began exchanging with some of the posters on this forum :).

zeus3925
02-25-2013, 11:27 AM
So we have a slight difference of opinion.
That's cool by me.
I would still shoot ducks with you!!!!;-)

Thanks, Stan.

Franco
02-25-2013, 07:20 PM
From Stossel's website...

An invitation into the mainstream discussion is a welcome change for liberty lovers across the globe. It should not come as a surprise that many in the establishment are slow to grant libertarians respect. In the past few days, attempts to discredit libertarians have been presented in an undeniably hostile manner. The arguments delivered by the usual mouthpieces for government intervention at home and abroad have been vicious and immature. This has left many in the liberty movement feeling violated and itching to punch back.