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View Full Version : (WI & ND) Numbers for Blackhawk and Fargo FTs on Aug 20



HiRollerlabs
08-16-2004, 08:45 PM
North Dakota Retriever Club, Fargo, ND

Open 102
Am 67
Q 40
D 25


Blackhawk Retriever Club, LaCrosse, WI
Open-99
Amateur-75
Qualifying-51 actually 50 since we have a scratch
Derby-32

Sioux Falls has 129 in the Open the wkend of Aug. 27. Scott Dewey scratched before close otherwise there would have been 137 in the Open.

WOW--that's a lot of dogs!

Franco
08-16-2004, 08:57 PM
North Dakota Retriever Club, Fargo, ND

Open 102



Figured it was going to be too many dogs. We'll just wait till Sioux Valley in two weeks. That one will probably have only 90 Open dogs.

Emily Faith
08-17-2004, 10:37 AM
Don't be so sure Booty. The same croud that runs ND, will run the trial in two weeks at Sioux Falls.

The King
08-17-2004, 12:05 PM
Open...............................129!

Gerard Rozas
08-17-2004, 12:19 PM
103 at Rocky Mountain the same weekend!

If I lived in Denver - I would move to California.

Franco
08-17-2004, 02:08 PM
Open...............................129!

I'm sorry but, I think that is just too many dogs in one stake. ND Fargo's summer trail is big year after year. Surprised they don't run a Limited, Special or Restricted for this weekend. Is having this many entries in one stakes really fair to the dogs and handlers? I think that half that amount would be much better for all those involved.

Ted Shih
08-17-2004, 02:32 PM
I have done alot of study on the impact of Limited, Special, Restricted, etc.

Assume 90 dogs

Limited lose 5 dogs
Special lose 5-10 dogs
Restricted lose 5-10 dogs

It does not have that big an impact

Big trials are a function of big pro trucks

For example, Rocky Mountain

Farmer - 16
Schrader - 15
Carruth - 13

Virtually of the dogs on those trucks are QAA

If you go to Limited, Special, Restricted, you eliminate the one dog Amateur, who helps put on the trial for the club

Ted

reggie
08-17-2004, 03:37 PM
I was the FTS at Fargo for nearly 10 yrs during the 90's. During those years, Fargo's fall trial was run both as a Limited & a Special for a number of years. Just as Ted stated, it had little effect on entry numbers. What did effect entries was opening the date to Blackhawk for a competing trial. Now here we are... a number of years later and both Fargo and Blackhawk have large fall trials.

In my opinion, the only solution is more competing trials. In other words, more choices for pro's to spread.

Trials in the upper mid-west typically get smaller after Sioux Falls. Pro's from the south return home.l

Greg Anderson

Gerard Rozas
08-17-2004, 03:47 PM
If Fargo and Colorado were not such wonderful places to summer - yall would not have this problem! :lol: :lol:

We have very small trials in South Texas during the summer!

Franco
08-17-2004, 04:23 PM
Ted, thanks for those numbers, that is a real eye-opener. I'm sold, we need more conflicting trials. Where are the quality judges going to come from?

Ted Shih
08-17-2004, 06:15 PM
The problems with conflicting trials are as follows:

1) Local folks lose one trial
2) Finding the local folks to staff two trials
3) Finding the grounds to satisfy two trials

Gerard Rozas
08-18-2004, 10:11 AM
What most people don't consider - The Pros don't like running 100+ dog opens either.


I think the soluntion to this problem is a buy in from the Pros that this is their problem too and that they have to be part of the solution.

Chad Engels
08-18-2004, 01:30 PM
Finding enough help and grounds for competing trials should not be a problem. I'm not sure why it would be, competing trials are usually hundreds of miles apart.

Finding enough judges may be a small problem, but one that can be overcome.

IMHO, the solution is more competing trials.

Chad - who is a member of the North Dakota Retiever Club, but will be judging for the Blackhawk Retriever Club.

Franco
08-18-2004, 02:32 PM
I would rather run less trials and have decent numbers (50-65 AA dogs per stakes) than run more trials with 90 plus dogs.

junbe
08-18-2004, 02:50 PM
Mr Booty

When I originally agreed to be chair of a competing trial with Fargo it was my dream to have an Open of 50-60 dogs. Now both Fargo and LaCrosse have 100 dog Opens. This puts a lot of strain on the clubs and particularly the worry wort field trial chairman! Any suggestions?

Jack

K G
08-18-2004, 04:41 PM
Booty wrote:


I would rather run less trials and have decent numbers (50-65 AA dogs per stakes) than run more trials with 90 plus dogs.

Ah....and there lies the rub...people don't want to give up a trial for the chance at running against fewer dogs.... :roll:

Sounds sorta betwixt and between to me....with the sport as popular as it is and will continue to be, at least into the foreseeable future this conundrum will not be going away until folks are willing to realize that they can't have their cake and eat it too.


junbe wrote:


Now both Fargo and LaCrosse have 100 dog Opens. This puts a lot of strain on the clubs and particularly the worry wort field trial chairman! Any suggestions?

Not that you don't already know: tight mechanics, great communication between stakes, tuned in marshals, judges that pay attention from set up through results, and that everyone understands that daylight is a commodity you can't have too much of....

I've heard several folks poo-poo the most underused tool they have at their disposal to lessen numbers: the Restricted Open. Yeah, lots 'o dogs are QAA, but how many of them have placed in an all-age stake...not as many as have jammed one! Until I hear of clubs actually using it and still getting 80+ dogs, I'll continue to turn a deaf ear to other suggestions (other than more conflicting trial dates) to limit numbers.

Keith Griffith