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Kudos to EE.

13K views 59 replies 27 participants last post by  Larry Housman 
#1 ·
After the recent spate of issues with limited MH entries, late scratches after the EE office closes, spots going unfilled, etc, I figured give some credit where it's due, when it happens the other way. I've had several of mine entered in multiple MH for months, because of the Limited issue and the spaces filling fast. I've scratched some early on or just before the day of closing to give others chances to enter, but Monday, didn't scratch until after 8 pm and felt bad that the club would lose the entries and someone else could have run. I was surprised to get an almost immediate acknowledgement from Tara King at EE, the scratches made and the two entries filled by others before closing. I don't know if that's how it will continue to work or just happened to be someone working late, but, it made a difference for multiple people, so, thank you, Tara & EE!
 
#2 · (Edited)
EE appreciates your comments & I'll make sure Tara knows too. Tara is doing her best but can't work 24/7 so sometimes clubs will still close events with less than a full/limited field. Unfortunately these limited master issues have increased Tara's workload substantially as currently scratches can only be processed manually by email or phone call to the EE office. The ultimate issue is that with the advent of the limited master combined with the current Master Nat'l qualification interest, there simply are more who want to enter events than there are available slots for entry - in certain local areas of the country. EE is in the process of trying to automate the scratch process that will make Tara's workload more reasonably sustainable & at the same time help insure that clubs with limited stakes are able to close with a full field. The core issue - having a supply of limited master slots that will reasonably meet demand, is being considered & addressed by the RHTAC & AKC.

The EE task to automate the scratch process, making it an on-line entrant operation that can be accomplished 24/7 without EE support involvement, is reasonably simple in concept but somewhat more complicated in terms of software coding, given the current EE software architecture. EE is evaluating the process and possible solutions at this time and hopes to have implementation within the next several months. If the RHTAC & the AKC mandate rule changes related to the limited master stake, EE will attempt to address those as well to the extent that such changes would affect the club event setup & entry operations.
 
#4 ·
Let me get this straight. So you enter just in case you might want to run an event then scratch at the last moment when you decide otherwise. I think I understand the problem of limited entries. Things that make me go hmmmm.
 
#6 ·
Another thing why would it take you to wait till the last minute to scratch? This is a very confusing thread. Bitches come in heat twice a year and that is the only reason I can think of for legitimately scratching other than injury.
 
#16 ·
So, a dog that titles out on Sunday, and is signed up for the test that closes on Monday....person doesn't have a chance to get on the computer until 6,7,8 pm at night...You are allowed to scratch up until 11:59 PM to get your money refunded...after that, you can scratch and roll the dice on whether you get anything back...who are you to say why a person should scratch their dog...ever hear of family emergencies...:roll:

I concur with you Kim,...I scratched a dog a week ago Monday, and Tara responded within 15 minutes to say that everything was taken care of...nice work EE....

Labs
 
#7 ·
Nope, I don't scratch at the last minute on a whim. I'm not wealthy and don't like tossing entry fees nor the EE surcharge, which happens, scratch or no scratch. Considering I'm entering 2-3 dogs each test, that ain't pocket change for me. After not getting in last summer with some Limited MH tests, this summer I entered the ones I normally run when they opened, which was months ago for some of them, including one in Sept. If that's how it's going to work with some tests filling up asap, you bet I'm going to get my dogs in if I can, what the heck else are people supposed to do when a test opens in May for August and September, is limited to 60 dogs and fills up in hours? Pray there might be an opening at the last minute, after I've spent the summer trying to get my dogs up to snuff? I get 5 months, May-Sept, to train after brutal winters of no work and try to get some passes. I didn't make the rule change, but I have to live with it if I want a chance to run. Now when it comes to closing day, there are various reasons I may have for removing those entries. I may not have been able to train because mother was in hospital, or the weather sucked or the bitches came in heat or I chose to run a Qual vs MH, none of which are anyone's business but mine. I try to scratch early enough to allow others to fill the spaces. Yes, there are multiple issues with Limited Entries, some of us are trying to get our dogs in best we can and still be fair to others. If it makes you feel any better, I did remove the one dog's entries for the next few tests way ahead of time, because he's only going to be running Qual for now. Hope that meets your approval.
 
#9 ·
Scratching the day of is no different than entering the day of like we did before there were limits. Lots of people didn't enter until day of closing, because they didn't feel the need to tie up funds any further ahead than necessary or because they weren't sure the dog was ready, or were waiting on some other info such as work schedule, etc. Now with Limits, we have to make decisions way ahead of time, and I don't have a crystal ball to tell me in May what's going to happen in 3-4 months, so sometimes, the final decision still comes on closing day. Now it just costs that extra $4.50 per entry to have that option. Not my first choice but right now, it's my only choice.
 
#11 ·
Isn't this exactly what every body is hitching about?
 
#15 · (Edited)
Part of the hitching is because if there are late scratches, EE wasn't open to handle it and spaces didn't get filled that might have, thus the request for online capability of doing so. The close date and time is what it is and everyone can cancel or enter right up until that time, if there are spaces. Either change the close time or make some others changes as been suggested, limited entries per handler, standardized opening time so all get a chance to get in vs 20-30 dogs on a pro truck in the first few minutes of opening, but to get my dogs in, I have to play with what's available and I know damn well you guys would too if in the same situation. You guys have a personal gripe against me and want to have one of your internet group bully sessions, muddy a thread and get it locked, have at it. But EE is trying to mitigate at least one of the issues by allowing later scratches to be processed in a timely fashion. The club I scratched from was able to fill the two spaces, which it did within minutes, and I switched my dogs to two other MH spots that opened late in a different test that also offers O/H Q, so I can drive and get the most bang for my buck with 3 dogs instead of 2. Don't know who scratched late to open the spots at the other test, or why, and don't care, just glad it worked via EE and both clubs got entries.
 
#13 ·
Granddaddy, if EE makes an upgrade and needs testers. I will gladly volunteer to help. I am a BSA with 25 plus years under by belt.

My test can be done of a variety of devices:
old clunker Dell running XP (yes there are some around still chugging along)
dell laptop W7
ipad
iphone

Pattie
 
#14 ·
I'm with Kim on this one. I have a bitch I bred. I wanted to run her this fall, but since entries opened so early, in order to make sure we would get in I had to enter her. I didn't know until yesterday that she was pregnant, I had to enter months ago to hold a spot. In the past, I would have just waited until I knew if she were pregnant or not. But now, if you want to finish a title, you've got to get in as soon as you see it's open or you are SOL.

I'm sure there are others here with similar problems that want to play the game.
 
#17 ·
I scratched a few weeks ago. Called the hunt test secretary and they hadn't gotten to it for a day. I then called EE and Tara took care of it within minutes! Thanks Tara!
 
#19 ·
I appreciate Kim's attempt to post a compliment to EE for trying to do a better job. The game is changing right now and it's going to be a little rocky until everyone figures out how to deal with it. I doubt Kim waited until late in the day on purpose in order to stiff the club: of course earlier is always better, but life gets in the way. Her spots were filled, the club didn't take a hit, no harm done.
 
#20 ·
Whether EE can get online scratches set up or not, perhaps have a policy that if you are going to scratch and get a full refund you have to do so 24 hours before the close, not by the close as is the case now. That then gives EE a full work day to process scratches, or after online scratches goes live, a full day for folks that want to get in to keep an eye on things and hopefully get a slot. I very much agree with Kim that you have to enter early just to make sure you have a spot. In my case, I've also entered two tests that are on weekends that closer tests are available but not yet open. Once the closer tests open up, if I get in I'll scratch the original two tests that I'm in now. I will do that as soon as I'm in the closer tests, so those two spots will be open for other entries well before the close so I'm not harming either the club or other handlers and EE makes an extra few bucks off me. I wish I didn't have to do that, but if I didn't, and then didn't get in the closer tests, I'm sitting at home those weekends.
 
#22 ·
Well, Tim, if that's your issue, then feel free to help a poor brother (or sister) out. Get on the horn, find out when said tests are going to open, if you can, otherwise, spend the time to monitor EE for when said test might open. Then be ready and able to get that poor guy's dog entered as soon as entries open. Problem solved. It's what the rest of us are having to do, at least until the kinks get worked out by the powers that be. I'm certainly not going to apologize for being on the ball and having the wherewithal to enter my dogs if I choose to. This is a game you pay to play.

Amusing, how those not being impacted themselves by a problem are able to offer so much criticism of those actually dealing with it.
 
#23 ·
Well, Tim, if that's your issue, then feel free to help a poor brother (or sister) out. Get on the horn, find out when said tests are going to open, if you can, otherwise, spend the time to monitor EE for when said test might open. Then be ready and able to get that poor guy's dog entered as soon as entries open. Problem solved. It's what the rest of us are having to do, at least until the kinks get worked out by the powers that be. I'm certainly not going to apologize for being on the ball and having the wherewithal to enter my dogs if I choose to. This is a game you pay to play.

Amusing, how those not being impacted themselves by a problem are able to offer so much criticism of those actually dealing with it
.
Ain't that the truth!!

if you have to enter 3 months advance of the test, enter. The fact that you are trying your best to both run a dog(s) and let others run if things happen and you need to scratch shows you care and are trying your best to work with the system we currently have.

PS. No limited with us next month Kim. Hope to see you down here. And congrats on the Q 3rd.
 
#24 ·
Thanks, Chuck, I hope to run Northern Flight, it's one of my favorites. At least, it's on the list, the rest is up to the girls and their hormones. The boys are going to stick with the white coat stuff, for the rest of this year or as long as the checkbook holds out.
 
#26 ·
What's a legitimate scratch?

Feel free to look up my dogs and count for yourself. The ones I'm running in MH this summer are Rainmaker's Rough Ride, SH, Rainmaker's Early Bird Special, SH. Rainmaker's Southern Gamble is running Qual. Oh, Rainmaker's Working Class Payday is running Derby, but, since there are no limits in FT entries, guess that doesn't matter.
 
#32 ·
I only have one dog to enter in Hunt Tests and I enter Master Hunter events months in advance just to make sure that I can get a spot. My lab is a female so its a crap shoot as to when she will come in heat because she has never had a regular six month cycle due to daily training year round. I am running in a Master next weekend that I was lucky to even get into when the event opened up for entries in late May. I have not had to scratch so far this year but if I had to at the last minute due to a health issue or heat cycle then I would. I wish that the AKC would come up with a new way of signing up for the Hunt Tests that would allow the hosting clubs to guarantee spots for the people that are working at the Hunt Tests ( giving up their free time without pay) because they enjoy the sport and are willing to help throw birds, shoot fliers or any other task that needs to be done. It would be fairly easy to ask club members ahead of time if they wanted to run their dog in the hunt test then save that many spots for the members. If the members didn't use the spot that was saved for them then they wouldn't be allowed a guaranteed spot at the next event held at the club ( unless a female was in season or some other valid health issue in writing from their vet. ) Just my two cents worth.
 
#33 ·
I agree, Tom. The Limited entry was a good and necessary tool implemented for clubs to use. That we have so many MH entries is also a good sign for HT. However, we are dealing with the fallout now. There are various viable solutions to help ensure everyone has a fair shot at getting entered, which to me, includes a publicized opening day/time, possibly limited entries per actual handler for the first 1-2 days, so many allotted spots for workers at a club's discretion, etc etc. Some of which could be voluntarily used by a club choosing the Limited Entry option, or not, but at least have some tools that a club can use, if they choose, to mitigate some of these issues. Not every club minds having a huge pro presence, for example, so it should be up to the clubs, not a mandatory sweeping set of rules that will again impact many maybe in the wrong way. More rules mean more policing and more complications, which also adds a burden to the clubs.

Bottom line, a fair shake at entering for everyone would be nice, and I feel that a publicly known date/time of opening, and maybe how entries are taken en masse, or not, would go a ways towards that, without a club having to take on the job of counting entries per handler, or which worker showed up to actually work and use their space, or workers fighting over the spots available and the favoritism, or impression thereof, that could ensue.

EE is working on the late scratch issue from the sounds of it, which also helps, especially the clubs not losing out on spaces that could have filled on closing day. Every club expects some scratches after the close, that's part of the budgeted expenses and why there is a fee for non-health related scratches, to at least cover the birds ordered, etc. I absolutely do not expect a club to refund an entry fee otherwise. I'd rather the clubs remain solvent and willing to put on tests.
 
#34 ·
I think an easy solution to entering hunt test is that the owner should have to enter the dog. That way everyone has a fare chance to enter. As far as scratching on the closing, I think you should have to scratch 1 hour prior to EE closing during business hours, so people can enter after they are closed on the last day of the closing.
 
#42 ·
I think an easy solution to entering hunt test is that the owner should have to enter the dog. That way everyone has a fare chance to enter. As far as scratching on the closing, I think you should have to scratch 1 hour prior to EE closing during business hours, so people can enter after they are closed on the last day of the closing.
Great suggestion. This would eliminate a single pro being able to wipe out half the stake with a single click of the mouse, but it also wouldn't keep that pro from showing up with a full truck of dogs and making the clubs that depend on that support happy. The only limiting factor would be that the primary registered owner be the one to make the entry on EE. It's fair across the board. Everyone is on an even playing field.
 
#36 ·
Maybe limit scratches to a defined set of parameters, (ie heat cycle w/vet's signature, injury w/vet's signature, etc.) or you forfeit all or a percentage of entry fees. Also put a deadline to scratch. Maybe 72 hours prior to closing. Also charge a scratch fee for EE to monitor and process. This would probably give everyone a fair shake on getting their dogs in.
 
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