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Lesson of the LIVE FLIER STATION and other newbie facts.

7K views 36 replies 25 participants last post by  Sabireley 
#1 ·
Background: I live in the boonies with no training group within 4 hours drive, so I train alone with hubby as bird boy. Have trained my dog up through almost swim-by using the Lardy sequence. Dog has been duck hunting several times. Dog can do doubles up to 300 yds in tough cover and water with fairly tight angles.

SO, I signed us up for our first Derby. Result: OUT IN THE FIRST SERIES

Why? Never trained for the spectacle of the Live Flier Station! Not talking about a live bird flying up, getting shot and getting retrieved - we did lots of that in training. I'm talking about this:

1st gun station is way off in the distance with one white jacket who sits down after throw and is kind of obscured in the terrain. 2nd station is the closer to us live flier with 3 very visible guys in white jackets with two shotguns and a big yellow crate of live birds. Dog watched both birds go down, was sent for the flier. Got distracted by the great stuff at the station on way to bird. Got bird and came back in. Received her on the memory bird side and lined her up. WOULD NOT STOP STARING AT THE FLIER STATION. Finally sent her for the memory and she went straight back to the cool guys with the guns and birds.

Lesson 1: Train with a giant live flier station in the field and practice sending dog past it for the long memory bird.

Lesson 2: Handling: if you have a two sided dog:
Have dog on side that memory bird on on. Line dog straight at the memory bird and stare it down for as long as possible after bird is thrown to ingrain it in memory. Then swing to watch flier go down.

What I did: had dog on the flier go bird side lined up to look between both stations. Once the 3 guys in white jackets started moving, she stopped looking at the memory bird and quickly lost interest in it all together. When she came back from go bird, she had no reference for lining to memory bird on my left side, because she had been on my right side lined for the middle of field.

ALL IN ALL: So glad we didi it! I never would have learned those things on my own and would have wasted time waiting to run til we were "Ready". Reality is we wouldn't have ever been "ready" because you don't know what you don't know til you find out.

Judges were AWESOME!! They offered for us to re-run the memory bird and have the gunner "help"! They were also very genuinely sympathetic to me. Not that I was looking for that, but it was nice!

Other handlers were great, too. They showed me how to do it and talked to me about how to train for it next time. GREAT EXPERIENCE that I could not have gotten without sticking my neck out and giving it a try.
 
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#3 ·
I have SOOO been there with you! Almost the exact same thing in my first derby last summer. A suggestion made to me, and I will surely try when ever I get to train with live birds and a group again, is to be sure the flyer station is blocked as much as possible by your body and the approach you take from the holding blind to the line. TAKE YOUR FREAKING TIME!!!!! Do NOT call for the birds until pup is locked onto that memory gunner. I came out the wrong side of the blind and the first thing Chief is looking at is the flyer station. After a little effort, he did "glance" over at the long bird, and like a puppet on a string, my arm flew up right away to signal for the birds. Pup never saw the thing as he had gone back to searching for the fun place by the time the bird was thrown. Hopeless. :mad: I felt so bad for him. I really need some serious training.
 
#4 ·
Jennifer, I'm glad you went.

Yours and Carol's experiences happen to all of us....The things you need to learn to play these games are not found an a DVD.

Keep at at it and enjoy yourself along the way.

Randy
 
#5 ·
Some things to think about:
1. As dog is returning, blow whistle to break dog focus on flier.
2. As dog heels in, emphasize where you want dog to sit. Do not let dog look at flyer
3. If dog focuses on flyer, and you cannot break attention, put out hand in direction of flyer. Say "here."
4. If that doesn't work, heel to flyer station. Put hand out. Say "no."
5. Re-heel dog. Hand out. "Here". If you get change, take your time
6. Pray
 
#8 ·
now , go back and watch that video I posted again!!! ;) I owed ya one!! Congrats for the gumption to walk to the line
 
#23 ·
We is gong to run Bearz in some dervies. Dad FAC AFC HO no yall kansas themes comings on... Hanes underwares. ??
Hey FQ,

I know we've corresponded before, but in private.

When you write this cryptic stuff, I start having the complain button light up.

I'm all about having fun, but will you please try to be a little less cryptic? Please? :cool:

Thanks! Chris
 
#13 ·
Good for you for trying. Derbies are fun and I encourage more people to try them.

It's funny that some say that "marks can't be that hard, after all there is a guy in a white coat standing near it." Many times it's the guy in the white coat that is close that prevents the dog from ever seeing the guy in the white coat that is far.
 
#14 ·
My unique experience with a flyer. It was a AKC ht, senior level with Hudson. It was a double, flyer was go bird. Watched memory bird down, then flyer was shot. Sent Hudson. He gets about 3/4 the way to the shot flyer. He makes an abrupt turn to the gun station and is circling aroung the gun station like crazy.

I'm in a blind panic. He comes back with the bird. I send for memory bird and he returns with it. The judges and I am in the dark as to what went on. They thought maybe an extra duck had got out of the crate.

One of the judges walks out to the gun station to find out what went on.

The gunners explained: they only barely cripped the duck. They were afraid to sluice it as the dog was in the field. The duck ran back to the gun station and was trying to get back in the crate, I guess.

We passed. But I don't want to go through that again.
 
#15 ·
Now you know. Make your own flier station in training and practice looking past it to a much less obvious gun station at a big distance. It would be good to get the dog in the habit of looking past multiple short guns and to a long gun in training. It's the little things like that that add up quick.
 
#17 ·
This is the progression of how it has work for me. Go to a test or trial, find out what you need to work on.(more to the affect of getting your a*s handed to me) Can't get upset, learn from it and go back home and try your best to train the way you trial. Evently you will be prepared for what ever they throw at you.

I entered a young dog in a junor a few years ago, he does a nice job on the flyer. I too lined for memory bird, I thought we had it. He breaks down,heads back to flyes station. He ran to the bird crate and started barking at the ducks in the crate, I had to walk out to get him, he was not going to leave that bird crate.
 
#18 ·
Good for you for running. Look at any field trial call backs posted on the events page and many many very good dogs don't make it past the 1st series. It won't be the last time but of course train as if your going to win each weekend.
Have Hubby stand a short station holding live duck hen by the feet. (not going to shoot it, you can keep it alive for months if you want). You concentrate on getting dog to watch a long mark, throw and retrieve it. All the while hubby is moving arm and duck up & down getting duck to flap its wings and hopefully quack up a storm (reason to use a hen). Dats dat.
The least of your worries is which side dogs was on. While helpful if you train for it, it didn't matter much I'm afraid.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Jen, it's the whole package. The flyer station... The excitement... The fresh shot duck... The trucks... The gallery... The judges... The marshal yelling the numbers... The chairs... The mat... The holding blinds... All of it was a whole new experience. You are not the first and won't be the last to say "she never did that before"!

Live shot flyers at a trial are WAY more exciting to a dog than duck hunting... They feel the pressure. In hunting the pressure is off for the most part.

You did better than my first derby attempt. My dog nearly caught the bird as it bounced on the ground! I was too dumbfounded to yell sit when he took off because "he had never done that before"!!
 
#21 ·
Best part of $300 dollar lessons is you remember them well.

Welcome to the club!

(helps in training if you set up a VeRY inviting flyer station, but run the long memory birds by themselves as singles some)


Don
 
#22 ·
we learned our lesson about pens of live birds out in the field during our first JH test. I suspect I have the only dog ever that tried to retrieve the entire pen of live birds....tried to drag it back with him....
 
#24 ·
Thanks all for the advice and the sharing of similar experiences! I will make a list of all the suggestions and internalize them. I was happy that she heeded the stop and come-in whistle and stayed steady!

Bill, you are right, it was the whole experience of the bird rack at the line, the gallery and dog scent in the blind etc etc that made it all a great lesson.

Thanks too to Breck for the training suggestions and Ted and everyone else!!! Great ideas. Today I've been building a bird pen so I can buy some ducks and keep a few handy...
 
#28 ·
#26 ·
Jen

At least one training session with a group would have given you this info and you could have had a heads up on training with distractions---sights, sounds, voices, trucks, strange dogs, etc. But glad you made the effort to do this.
 
#30 ·
Hey Jen one other thought comes to mind. What if in training... the only time the dog gets to pick up the flier is AFTER they pick up the rest of the marks? What if in training... half the time they don't get to pick it up at all, especially if there is any hassle with getting the to swing off and focus elsewhere.

Great job getting out there!
 
#36 ·
I believe there may be bear in the Stowe area so the chain link is pretty stout.
Not a lot of money to build really.
~10x20 concrete pad with depression for swimming pool and chainlink, people gate & duck catcher gate to catch a few in dry end. water source and placed where runoff isn't a problem.
 
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