Originally Posted by Buzz
I happen to be friends of a couple of middle class ladies who volunteered their time to help children whose parents were in the throes of divorce. The organization submitted their names to Bush for the amount of time and dedication that they had given for the kids and the counceling that was provided to the parents to help ensure that the parents were taught not to poison the kids to the other parent.
Bush invited these 2 ladies (along with many, many more individuals ) to the White House over his 4 years,where each was honored with a dinner and personal time with him and Barbara. They were a part of the Thousand Points of Light of which Bush spoke.
He was smart enough to know that all problems can not be solved by government and that individuals and nonprofit organizations in communities who give donations of time and money can do far more good than the Federal government.
I wonder how long it will take for the anguished, yet to achieve, masses who voted for Obama to realize the same thing.
Neither Bush the father or the son will lower themselves to defend against attacks against their morals, or character, by their detractors.
Obama follower? I assume that McCain had supporters and Obama had followers...
Originally Posted by code3retrievers
I thought what we were having was a discussion. I tried to put his comment into context, and I went to his website to find an examples for you. Then I posted a link to help you understand an approach to security that extends beyond the thinking of a purely military solution.
If not attacking Obama makes me a sheep, then I don't know what we have to discuss.
I didn't mean to dismiss the whole thing out of hand. I was only trying to point out that the thing didn't explode into a huge enduring national movement. I doubt if Obama's push for national service will either.
Originally Posted by Captain Mike D
I voted for Obama; I won't clutter things up with my reasons, but you can search my posts if you want to. Suffice to say I wasn't entirely alone in my choice of candidate, though I certainly don't consider myself some part of a landslide. I and most of my friends who voted this way are cautious and skeptical to the point of paranoia, are watching the political scene very carefully and are ready to write, vote, protest, whatever, when we see something amiss with the person/people we've voted for, but a mere 7 days out still believe we made the best decision we could given the circumstances and choices in front of us.
Originally Posted by code3retrievers
In this thread I think Obama didn't make a good call, and I call it out in the spirit of discussion that you purport to ask for. I say why I think the way I think. I stick a cautious toe in to the pool to try to analyze in an objective way, being careful not to call names even though I am critical of the current administration's efforts on national security. For it, I--not personally, but by extension--receive the following thanks:
1. Get called a sheep (even though I'm going against Obama and agreeing with most everyone here to a degree), by the original poster no less.
2. It is implied that I am not interested in anything but some government handout. (Believe me, as single, able-bodied, employed, no children, I don't catch a break, ever, and don't expect to, ever.)
3. Get called an idiot.
4. It is generally implied that I voted specifically for instituting a Gestapo.
The only thing I can think of is that I'm pretty stupid for even bothering. I mean, for Pete's sake, I'm trying to agree with Marvin.
If those of you who say you want an honest, thoughtful conversation really want that, some of you are going to have to police yourselves better, or you'll be left with the blathering idiots only and never hear a thoughtful, honest person's differing point of view.
I'm going back to the dog stuff, where I'm smart enough not to post most of the time anymore.
I asked if the left are all sheep? I stated followers because at least on this board you will rarely if ever have the Obama "supporters" take him to task for anything.
Not what he says, his past records on gun control, abortion, past associations, or his tax and spend ways.
Like I said McCain was far from perfect, as all candidates are. I would just like some intellectual honesty.
Luvalab, I don't think those comments were directed at you. Most likely I was the target. Obama did not define exactly what he meant by security forces. I'm not defending him, I'm trying to provide some perspective for what he possibly meant. The reason that I watch both FOX and MSNBC, the reason I read both conservative and liberal authors is to gain perspective.
Originally Posted by luvalab
Just don't believe that we're going to see the Gestapo in American anytime soon... If Obama tries it, the left will be his biggest opponent.
And the conservatives wonder why Obama won. . .
“That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,” Broun said. “When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist.”
--Congressman Paul Broun, R-GA
This is the kind of lunatic that scares mainstream America away from the Republicans.
I'm not taking it personally, for sure, as I am roundly ignored by all (thank heaven). I'm just pointing out that the thread was directed at Obama supporters in general, an Obama supporter tried to respond honestly, and the lash of following critiques were directed at Obama supporters in general. I feel somehow vaguely obligated to point out that from the perspective of an Obama supporter, it's not a great way to keep a dialogue open, in the off chance anyone really wanted that to begin with (hey--I've got HOPE, right?).
Originally Posted by Buzz
Okay, now I've REALLY got to rush back to the dog stuff--there's someone trying to do a double T, and they're in trouble! Let me change into my cape and...
Oh. Wait. I don't respond to those threads either.
Originally Posted by M Remington
Oh so your saying they run to Barny Frank. Seems a lot of conservatives agree with that statement....until explained better it does kind of sound like that could be a very true statement
Here ya go...
The proposal to have a internal group that is as strong as the military is not a new idea. It goes on now with our enemies...youth are indoctrinated in the beliefs determined to be important to their government which also includes mandatory service to the government.
It is NOT the Gestapo that our leader is proposing but a Youth Corp. Of course this corp would probably benefit from the monies that Ayres and his educational group uses to indoctrinate youth in Chicago...
Here is a link to a Youth Corp in history. It also was instituted by a Messiah...girls were taught to run a strict ship in the home and boys were taught to be strong and to accept those virtues that their leader saw as important:
Knew a German man whose parents realized what was really going on and he was shipped out of Germany (as were many other young people) to learn a trade. He never went back to Germany...