The apocalypse must be coming, I completely agree with Jeff :cool:.
Chapt. 11 is the only way to get rid of the union contracts that are the biggest problem. That will NEVER happen with the Democrats in control. Who is their biggest constituent? The labor unions, this auto bailout is nothing more than an election payoff to keep the big 3 out of Chap. 11.
We have been swindled with the entire bailout package. Do you remember it had to get done within a week or catastrophe, the bad debts had to be bought out in the banking industry. They got the money to play with and now they aren't even going to buy out the bad debts.
Every politician needs to be cleaned out of DC in the primaries so we have a chance at at least better than lesser evil choices.
I.B.D., IMHO they pulled back $500 billion to rethink where the rest of the money should go because the banks were using it to buy smaller banks rather than lending it. They don't want the remaining money spent on something that won't move the economy forward. What that something is, is not entirely clear...but I've got the feeling it's going to become moreso, and sooner rather than later.
And ditto on that apocalypse thing.......;-)
Common ground regards,
Well, I'm not gonna vote on this here bailout thing. The last time I voted no one listened so why would it be different this time?
But in the words of Steve Forbes:
So it's apparent from the way I vote that I know little about what is necessary to make the world tick. But we have been rewarding office holders for years for a constant lack of progress in our society.
Why not give a little to a greedy union apparatus & the milquetoast management of the company's? My only thought would be because it is not the American way - let them sink or swim. Let them be responsible for the damage they have wrought on their enterprise.
But I feel a little disenfranchised this week. We had a decent candidate for POTUS, he lost - in our state we had a great candidate for Governor, best one I've seen in years, he lost to an incompetent. The only consolation was our lousy candidate for US Rep beat a lousier candidate from the other party. So I'm just going to sit back and be a constant critic like the other party was for 8 long years.
What's the big deal? Obama will be running this country using the Cuban model anyway. See any auto manufacturers in Cuba? They're all on horseback or 50 year old automobiles. Less pollution and less need for (evil) oil. That's where the one's taking us. Who needs cars when you have a donkey! Plus, you can collect the manure to heat your home like they do in China...another model society according to our President-elect.
Can't dump this one all on the unions. Anybody remember the gas lines in the mid 70's. After that people were screaming for the smaller cars and trucks. Detroit started making what the public wanted. Gas lines went down and there was plenty of available fuel. Life was good.
A couple of decades later we fell in love with the big trucks and moms taxi cab,the SUV. Auto makers gave you what you wanted and now you have what you don't want. Any company with any business smarts is not going to manufacture a product that nobody buys.
We know some of us need those big trucks for our jobs but do you really need one to haul your two dogs and you to a test or trial? Yes unions can take partial blame along with corporate and stockholder greed and many other reasons to numerious to mention. But don't forget to look in the mirror and see where a lot of the problem stems from.
Originally Posted by Oregon Lab Lover
The average union autoworker wages including benefits are at $78/hour add in another 20% of the cost of a vehicle is paying retiree benefits.
All of the automakers missed the forward thinking on fuel economy, Toyota probably the worst with their big gas hog Tundras and Sequoias yet they are not in need of a bailout. The fuel mileage thing should have created a slow down while they re-tooled to meet customer demand not a complete collapse. They were failing miserably long before fuel got expensive, this did not happen in the last year.
The problem with the American made small car is the competition. Go sit in a cavalier or tauras and then jump in a camry or civic. I don't know what the answer is. I think they just got behind. Hondas and Toyotas are more expensive, but people are willing to spend the money for the quality and fuel milage
Buzz, if that graphic is correct WOW. No wonder they're broke