VP admits knowledge of Waterboarding

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Originally Posted by cotts135

I could be wrong but it seems that Buster would just rather torture them for any intelligience they may have and then line them up against some wall and shoot them. This is similar to what they would do to us.

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Yeah, it's similar....if you call removing one testicle at a time similar...if you call cutting off a woman's breast similar...if you call peeling the skin off of arms in strips similar...if you call cutting off fingers one joint at time similar....I'll stop there in deference to anyone's delicate sensitivities. Merely shooting them would be a wanted relief rather than what they subject their captives to.

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I would like to believe that it is our laws and morality that separates us from them.

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I'd like to believe in equal pay for equal work too but that's not likely to get me anywhere now is it.............:cool:

We even use clean water when waterboarding. Look at it as good for their gums and teeth; maybe then you can get around its formal intent....;-)

kg

If it were up to me I wouldn't do any water boarding. I would just line em up shoot the first one, ask the second what I wanted to know.If he didn't answer shoot him and move on to the next. And so on and so on and so on. The only reason you wouldn't is for religious reasons.Thou shall not kill. But we've already separated church and state so why not? I don't consider them human. I don't see any difference in killing all of them and putting a roach bomb in an infested house.

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Originally Posted by YardleyLabs

For those of you who approve such tactics, I can only assume you are also OK with similar interrogation of our own forces. Presumably representatives of our government who have called those who did similar things to our troops monsters who should be tried and convicted of war crimes are nothing but liberal whiners.

In my mind, you treat all people as you would want to be treated under similar circumstances. That doesn't mean that they would return the favor. However, our morality is measured first by our standards, not the lowest common denominator from among our enemies. I have never seen a convincing argument that torture is an effective technique for gathering reliable intelligence.

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Most SF operators have experienced boarding so as to understand the feeling when put into the position by an unfriendly.

I'll admit it's a little more than an 'uncomfortable shower' but having gone through it I'd prefer that over a beheading published on Al Jazeera for my bretheren to see.

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Originally Posted by Hew http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...s/viewpost.gif
"Tens of thousands of US military personnel have been waterboarded."

Really????????????????????????????????? Sounds like a gross exaggeration to me.

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You are aware that the United States waterboards its own personnel during SERES training for pilots and special forces guys, right? "Tens of thousands" was taken from an article on waterboarding written by a Navy pilot. He extrapolated the number of men in SERES classes by the decades waterboarding has been done in training and came up with a guesstimate of 40,000. You've got google. You've got a calculator. Do your own math if you don't like his answer.

While you're doing the math, keep in mind the number three (3). Because THREE is the total number of high-ranking, murdering terrorists who have been waterboarded. Oh, the horror. I feel like Joseph Mengele now. :rolleyes:

But anyway, thanks for the revelation that Cheney knew about the waterboarding. When are you going to break the news here that Lindbergh's plane has reached Paris? ;-) You know who else also knew? Key members of the Democratic congressional delegation...including Nancy Pelosi.

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Originally Posted by subroc

I have never seen a convincing argument that an uncomfortable shower (waterboarding) is torture.

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Interesting.

Would any one on this board or reading this post that has directly experienced waterboarding in either a training or real-world environment please step forward and detail the facts and specifics of your experience.

Regards,

Joe S.

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Originally Posted by Joe S.

Interesting.

Would any one on this board or reading this post that has directly experienced waterboarding in either a training or real-world environment please step forward and detail the facts and specifics of your experience.

Regards,

Joe S.

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While we're on the subject Joe, let's see if we can get any testimony on this topic:

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Originally Posted by YardleyLabs

I have never seen a convincing argument that torture is an effective technique for gathering reliable intelligence.

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Newton's Law regards,

kg

There is a report titled "Educing Information: Interrogation: Science and Art
Foundations for the Future" prepared by the National Defense Intelligence College under the auspices of the Defense Department in December 2006. This report sought to evaluate alternative approaches for interrogation. A copy may be found at http://www.fas.org/irp/dni/educing.pdf. It notes that most professionals believe that "harsh" interrogation is not a reliable method for gathering intelligence because of the difficulty of assessing the accuracy of information in a context where the subject will say anything to halt the pain. The same study also notes that there is very little scientific evidence of any kind concerning the efficacy of torture -- either showing it works or proving it doesn't.

Note that the problem is not with getting people to confess; that is easy. They will confess to anything. Maybe this is what has historically made torture popular with members of the inquisition and with some police interrogators. When all you care about is getting a confession, and "truth" is a lower priority, torture works just fine.

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Originally Posted by YardleyLabs

There is a report titled "Educing Information: Interrogation: Science and Art
Foundations for the Future" prepared by the National Defense Intelligence College under the auspices of the Defense Department in December 2006. This report sought to evaluate alternative approaches for interrogation. A copy may be found at http://www.fas.org/irp/dni/educing.pdf. It notes that most professionals believe that "harsh" interrogation is not a reliable method for gathering intelligence because of the difficulty of assessing the accuracy of information in a context where the subject will say anything to halt the pain. The same study also notes that there is very little scientific evidence of any kind concerning the efficacy of torture -- either showing it works or proving it doesn't.

Note that the problem is not with getting people to confess; that is easy. They will confess to anything. Maybe this is what has historically made torture popular with members of the inquisition and with some police interrogators. When all you care about is getting a confession, and "truth" is a lower priority, torture works just fine.

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So your saying they'll talk:)

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Originally Posted by Hew

But anyway, thanks for the revelation that Cheney knew about the waterboarding.

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Well it was not only that he knew about it he approved of it and coordinated it's implementation. Watching his interviews he is convinced he is right and would do it again.He is in the opinion of some in legal jeopardy because of this.


;-)

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Originally Posted by Hew

[SIZE=2 You know who else also knew? Key members of the Democratic congressional delegation...including Nancy Pelosi.

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Let's not leave it at just Pelosi we can add Jane Harmon John Rockefeller,and Harry Reid along with some other Democrats. If you think that I am going to give these guys a pass because they are Democrats your wrong. They are to blame as much as anyone . This is why you won't see a real investigation into any torture techniques used by the CIA.


I checked up on that number you gave me about how many people have been waterboarded. Well it is possible that your right. MY bad

It's not surprising that the usual suspects have voiced their enthusiastic support for torture.

The rest of us can take comfort in the fact that the recently released McCain Levin report is a scathing indictment of the policy of torture that came straight from the White House.

The money quote, from John McCain, which is contained in the summary:
"The Committee’s report details the inexcusable link between abusive interrogation techniques used by our enemies who ignored the Geneva Conventions and interrogation policy for detainees in U.S. custody. These policies are wrong and must never be repeated."

http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=305735

This report (a truly bi-partisan effort) is laying the groundwork for bringing the perpetrators to justice. (And, by 'perpetrators' we are talking about the people who set these policies in motion, not the flunkies like Lyndiee England who carried out these policies and subsequently took the fall for it).

Who is this 'John McCain' anyway? Must be a librul!