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I just bought the first edition in August. What is the major difference in the Basics? I don't trial or hunt test, but I do hunt a lot so I will most likely only make it half way through transition and be satisfied with the dog and my efforts. The dog is solid on OB, Collar Conditioned and Force Fetched.
Can some one please describe the differences?
You live in Mequon? My buddy and I live in Jackson (west of Grafton). We train the dogs quite a bit up until hunting season. If you ever want to train together let me know.
I've only watched the first CD. I'll wait to answer
/paul
I do live in Mequon and would like to get together. I chased all over the place last summer for a good place to swim the dog. I have some places up north but that's only on the weekends. I have to find a place around town for next summer. This past summer was all obedience, collar conditioning and force fetch with marks on weekends or in cut fields.
I got my copy this week. I have been able to watch disc one and a small part of disc two so far. I am just getting back home from a road trip and will resume watching the material now.
At this point, my observation is that there is significantly more, brand new basics material. This material compliments the detail and description on the RJ articles, showing how Mike implements these steps.
I've already picked up on some nuances with verbal intonation, body posture, physical movements and other differences between Mike's way, and my interpretations of Mike's way from the articles. While subtle, I believe that Mike's style helps communicate the optimal message to the canine student.
I've already found some things that I will change when I do my best interpretation of Mike's method with my next pup.
To my mind, this is a significant improvement over the original TRT material for anyone - from novice to AA veteran.
I'm looking forward to catching up on more of the material and will be viewing some tonight.
Chris
I agree with Chris. Having a pup in the late basics, early transition phase, I've found those segments of the tapes a significant improvement over the first. It seems like they amassed all the questions that folks have asked over the years at seminars, and preemptively answer them in this series. Some simple concepts that were assumed to be in knowledge, are better explained here, such as "hold". I have the old and new editions, and don't feel like I wasted one penny. Definitely worth it. There are technical improvements also, and nicer cinematography.
I'm now through disc 3 and into disc 4.
Once you get into transition/advanced, Mike's got no moustache in most of it. (much more recent material) It is more recent commentary that really hits on some key points that are unintentionally "glossed over" in the earlier version.
In this material, Mike gives thorough overview and explanation of the concepts discussed. In many cases, there is footage from years ago, with now deceased champion retrievers, but Mike introduces the setups with modern diagrams, clearly showing the key concepts. And in many cases, Mike's former assistant Dave Smith is the one handling these famous dogs of history.
Mike really hits home on some things that one needs to focus on AS THEY WORK INTO transition/advanced training. These are tips and methods to avoid head-swinging. Similarly, he goes into better and more detail about how to have a well-balanced All Age marker that drives deep but can still handle the short retireds.
Throughout the discs that I've watched thus far, Mike is much more thorough with, not only the many nuggets of gold that he sprinkles through all of his materials, but with the "for example" descriptions. To me, these "for example" clarifications make the concept really stick. Otherwise, the material has tended to move so fast, it's not all absorbed or understood by the observer.
"Unwind the pop".... Maybe, just maybe Mike has this in some of his older material. I personally never picked it up until a seminar I attended in Montello. He really covers it well, with very clear explanation of what it means, and how to apply it in training.
On the basics.... I really like the detail Mike went into on how to best accopmlish each step to optimize your chances of avoiding: popping, flaring, bugging.... As mentioned earlier, this stuff really compliments the articles, which I've felt for quite some time, are among the best values in retriever training literature.
So, here's the trivia question of the day: Does Mike Lardy still do stick fetch? :cool:
Chris
I have to say that I have only seen 45 minutes of disc 1 and I am completely amazed with it. I watched about the same timing of the first version and was very disappointed with it because I am very new to this and have never done it before. As such, I was thinking these DVD series would explain each step and process to me. WRONG. It glossed over heel, here and force fetching.
This new version has spent the entire 45 minutes I have seen discussing here, heel and force fetching and they are not done yet. I was very impressed with how they showed the hold command and also ear pinch start of force fetch. Much improved from first version.
I also agree with Chris. I also have the Volume 1 - 3 books from Lardy and it was nice to see his interpretation of his articles and how it differed from mine.
It is well worth the price to buy this one. For me knowing nothing, I thought first one was a waste (at least for my starting out. Maybe not when I progressed further into the tapes).
I thought the PRODUCTION on the old original was lacking and much improved in the Marking series that came out later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson
AND
To me all the preaching at the podium was a yawner, with an infinitesimal density of information,
BUT
I found the yard sequences worth the price. You could learn how to do basic "BASICS" from that. Terrific stuff.
Is the new "commentary" accompanied by in the yard/field video demonstrations or just oral commentary behind a podium?
I'm not interested in buying videos with "poarch philosophy" and tear jerkers of "climbing the hill in the 10th..." - that's fine if that's what you want to pay for, and I got my money's worth from the old (Farmer/Ayacock & Lardy) stuff - after filtering, what I want to know is:
Is there enuf new video of actual dog training to make the new version worth the price?
Keith, I think you will be pleasantly impressed with it. There is not any new,moustache-free, podium preaching in the new stuff. Most of the talking that Mike does in the new footage is with transmitter or stick or rope or lead in hand, and dog at his side. The stuff that is "talking heads" material (as Shannon Nardi would put it) is limited in timespan, is very focused on the particular subject matter at hand, and has multiple cutaways to either actual in the field demos, or computer generated schematics/graphics, or both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Stroyan
In terms of is there enough to make it "worth" it for Keith Stroyan? I know of only one guy who can make that call. :cool:
P.S. bought my Acmes and did me a little craft project. It's been two weeks and my finger is nearly healed. Note to self: do not try to cut a plastic funnel with a razor-sharp knife while driving.
P.p.S.s. I liked the original story about the tenth and how proud he was of that girl for digging it out and winning the National. I would gladly watch more of them... And you know what? I've not watched it all...so maybe I'll get some. But by the time one gets to the 4th disc, they should already have their money's worth.