Mr. Buzz ?

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Originally Posted by Blackstone

I apologize if you took my tone to be condescending. I just found it ironic that you continued to harp on the hidden costs, pollutants and toxin created by the production of electric engines and batteries, but failed to acknowledge that the production of IC engines and cars produce their own hidden costs, pollutants and toxins. I don’t know if electric vehicles produce more, but if you want to compare apples to apples, you have to compare both vehicles equally.

I never said I loved the Volt. I think it is a very interesting vehicle, and a first step in the right direction to reducing dependence on oil (forgien and domestic). However, I do not plan to buy one. It doesn’t fit my lifestyle. But, like I said, if they can build similar technology into a full-size SUV or full-size pickup, I’ll be in line to get one.

Is the government subsidizing electric vehicles with your tax dollars, or giving buyers a tax credit? There is a difference.

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I am comparing both vehicles equally. The Volt has an IC engine, batteries, and electric motors. Replace the batteries and motors with IC engine based transaxle and you would be money and energy ahead. But then you would have a standard Malibu, not a half-assed electric car.

I know the difference between a tax rebate and a credit (once again, condescending). This is a rebate. Take from my pocket and give to the Volt buyer. Sen. Stabenow (D-MI) has a bill to give the $7500 rebate to the buyer at the time of sale, instead of waiting until this year's tax refund check. I don't think that happened when people bought the first $100 TI calculator in the 1970's.

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Originally Posted by sandyg

Because the VW doesn't cost $42k.
Because electricity comes from somewhere (either coal, natural gas, or nuclear).
Because I'm not creating and then having to do something with the toxins created by making and disposing of a gigantic battery.
If we would "drill baby drill" we wouldn't be dependent on foreign oil.
The Volt will go the way of GM's 1970's 4/6/8 cylinder engine and their Quadrasteer rear axle. It's nothing more than a solution looking for a problem.

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Isn't that exactly the point of electric vehicles? Anyone who thinks it's all about green, as in an environmentalist's wet dream, is missing the point. Electric plug-ins is way more about bringing other fuels into the transportation mix and reducing the amount of oil burned for that purpose. Unless you think you can fuel your car with coal or plutonium directly.

No, the IC engine won't be going anywhere fast. The horse drawn carriage and buggy whip didn't go away overnight either.

Does anyone really believe that "drill baby drill" will get us off of the foreign oil, ever?

Blackstone, you must be younger than me. My first Ti calculator with basic scientific functions on it cast me near $350. The last HP I bought cost me about $250.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bill

I can hardly wait for the "imbecile" in a volt to become stranded like the family that spent 3 days in their gas burning vehicle. They survived because they judiciously ran the heater in spurts, starting and stopping the engine.

How long would you last in your "VOLT" Mr Blackstone?

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Considering the Volt only uses it’s gas engine to provide electricity for the battery, and on average, you can go 330 miles on 9.3 gallons of gas, unless the family in questions had a vehicle that got more than 35 mpg, I probably would have outlasted them.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bill

Face it, your 'pride and joy' is just a motor vehicle tinker toy, designed primarily for the nearby worker to jog back and forth in. It's another version of the pregnant rollar skate we've seen for years, only this time it's dangerous because the GREENIES are making it happen at the expense of what this nation really needs.

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Well, if you consider a 370 mile range a jog back and forth to work, I guess you’re right. However, most people don’t commute that far back and forth to work. And, obviously you missed, or didn’t understand, the part about just putting in more gas to go as far as you want to.

I won’t even bother to address the rest of your rant. It is meaningless, and has nothing to do with the vehicle I was talking about. Although, I would like to say that your proclivity for childish name calling does little to prove your point, and makes it impossible for me take you seriously. I would be offended, but considering the source why bother? When you mature enough to have a “big boy” conversation (which I doubt will ever happen), let me know, and maybe we can actually have an intelligent discussion.

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Originally Posted by sandyg

I am comparing both vehicles equally. The Volt has an IC engine, batteries, and electric motors. Replace the batteries and motors with IC engine based transaxle and you would be money and energy ahead. But then you would have a standard Malibu, not a half-assed electric car.

I know the difference between a tax rebate and a credit (once again, condescending). This is a rebate. Take from my pocket and give to the Volt buyer. Sen. Stabenow (D-MI) has a bill to give the $7500 rebate to the buyer at the time of sale, instead of waiting until this year's tax refund check. I don't think that happened when people bought the first $100 TI calculator in the 1970's.

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Gee, Sandyg, you're a little touchy, aren't you? I was asking a question, not being condescending. I didn't know if it was a tax credit or a subsidy. Although, I looked it up and found it is only proposed legislation at this point. It may not even pass. She tried it once before, and it went nowhere.

My point with the calculator is that with advancements in technology and economies of scale, makes technology cheaper and viable. Electric vehicles will likely get cheaper as well. Eventually, an electric vehicle may not be any more expensive than that VW diesel.

Some of the initial cost will still be offset by using considerably less gas and oil, especially as gas prices continue to increase.

You may not like the Volt or any other form of alternative fuel vehicle, but drill baby drill is not going to do anything to solve the long term energy problems we face. It would only serve to prolong the inevitable.

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Originally Posted by Blackstone

Gee, Sandyg, you're a little touchy, aren't you? I was asking a question, not being condescending. I didn't know if it was a tax credit or a subsidy. Although, I looked it up and found it is only proposed legislation at this point.
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Actually you are wrong. Obama is proposing changing tax credits to dealer rebates.
For tax year 2009 a tax credit was in effect. Of course prisoners and IRS agents claimed these even though they did not have an eligable car.
" The inspector general found that 29 prisoners received $49,926 in vehicle credits even though they were incarcerated throughout 2009."

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Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139

Actually you are wrong. Obama is proposing changing tax credits to dealer rebates.
For tax year 2009 a tax credit was in effect. Of course prisoners and IRS agents claimed these even though they did not have an eligable car.
" The inspector general found that 29 prisoners received $49,926 in vehicle credits even though they were incarcerated throughout 2009."

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They probaly voted as well along with most of the dead people in Chicago!

I just checked for 2010, as yes it is a tax credit
of up to 7500.

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Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139

Actually you are wrong. Obama is proposing changing tax credits to dealer rebates.
For tax year 2009 a tax credit was in effect. Of course prisoners and IRS agents claimed these even though they did not have an eligable car.
" The inspector general found that 29 prisoners received $49,926 in vehicle credits even though they were incarcerated throughout 2009."

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The bill Stabinow proposed hasn’t been passed yet. This is the 2nd time she proposed it. It may have more support this time. I don’t like the rebate idea, but I’m okay with the tax credit. I know the rebate would attract more buyers, but the Gov. shouldn’t be in the rebate business.

That's what crooks do. They're always looking to beat the system. That's why they're in jail.

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Originally Posted by Blackstone

The bill Stabinow proposed hasn’t been passed yet. This is the 2nd time she proposed it. It may have more support this time. I don’t like the rebate idea, but I’m okay with the tax credit. I know the rebate would attract more buyers, but the Gov. shouldn’t be in the rebate business.

That's what crooks do. They're always looking to beat the system. That's why they're in jail.

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Not all of them are in jail, some of them are in congress and the senate.