my wife rec'd that i have my vasectomy reversed in order for us to have a fourth child in our late thirties. my response, "baby, if i had only known the peace a simple surgical procedure could give my mind........ i would have had it done in junior high!";)
sorry to jump on the ladies only thread.
Thanks for your thoughts Gerry, I too dislike the idea of abortion. I keep wishing that we had the kind of society where no one requested one, except in extreme circumstances. I wish that the request was seldom enough to make it a non issue with our politicians.
I particularly dislike any abortion later than 16 weeks. Right now we are saving babies at 22 weeks gestation. Last I looked, it was about 30% survival at 22 weeks but that is huge when you see how tiny and frail these babies are. So, how can we abort some and then battle to save another? How is one garbage and the other a cherished life?
Like so many issues in this country, we approach it backward. We want to reduce/eliminate abortions so we start passing laws and making rules to stop them/not pay for them/make then difficult to obtain. What we should be doing is working to prevent the unwanted pregnancy in the first place. Having access to the morning after pill would be great but I suspect that the FDA would never agree to it being on the pharmacy shelf. In our lawsuit happy society there would be too much risk, despite the benefits.
I believe that the vast majority of abortions are in the 15 to 24 year old age bracket and they not the result of failed birth control but because they failed to use ANY birth control, or they used the birth control they had inconsistently.
There is a sector of our society (usually religious) that believes that if we don’t tell our kids about sex they will never think of it on their own!! They also believe that if we allow them access to birth control we are giving them “permission”. Both of these ideas are just plain wrong. You only have to walk down the halls of any high school in the US to realize that these kids have figured out sex and they aren’t even the least bit concerned about asking anyone’s permission!!!
We need comprehensive sex ed in our schools starting at about 6th or 7th grade, and continue on every year. We need to quit with the sex ed that looks like a plumbing lesson on the male and female parts and start talking about what really happens. We need to find teachers that can say the words penis and vagina and not be embarrassed. We need to get our students to be able to talk about it, so they too can say the words penis and vagina and not stutter or turn red. If we as a society can’t talk about it, how do we expect anyone to make good decisions about sex in the heat of the moment?
When we can talk about it, can accept that it is a normal part of the human experience - then we can decide when, where, with whom. We would then have youth that can also talk to their partner and to their health care provider to find a birth control that works for them, knowing that nothing is 100% effective.
Leslie, a real pleasure to "discuss" a topic like this without resorting to "absolutes", but truly sharing thoughts.
Yes, I also agree that we ought to give much more emphasis to the prevention of pregnancy. If abortions became rare, then that entire issue would be much easier to resolve.Quote:
Like so many issues in this country, we approach it backward. We want to reduce/eliminate abortions so we start passing laws and making rules to stop them/not pay for them/make then difficult to obtain. What we should be doing is working to prevent the unwanted pregnancy in the first place.
We may never be able to prevent an abortion in the case of tubal pregnancy, but there are plenty of abortions that we CAN prevent with adequate use of birth control and education in its use.
It occurs to me that the "mission" of Planned Parenthood was supposed to be about education first, and foremost. If they are (as is sometimes cited) the greatest source of abortions, then they have failed greatly in their primary mission. There can be both physical and psychological issues involved with abortion, and we are all remiss if we don't give enough attention to protecting (especially our young women) from those repercussions. So much better to prevent the need for the abortion.
I think that sex education should also include information about the whole concept of emotional intimacy, not just the physical aspects of it. That can be done in a secular way, without having to invoke any religious connotations that would offend any atheists.
Since it is well documented that teenagers are notoriously lacking in impulse control, we need to provide the access to birth control for their own protection in a physical way. I think that sex education needs to include discussion of emotional intimacy to protect them psychologically.
I did read somewhere that the morning after pill was to be available without prescription behind the pharmacy counter. I think there may still be some dispute with whether it should be available to a woman under 18 (or 16?).
Not to mention that discussions on birth control and abortions, often overlooks the issues of STDs which can also do much damage to both men and women physically.
Maybe we also need to give more attention to education for parents! Teenagers need to know that they have the support of their parents if they need to face something as traumatic as an abortion.
Maybe the original poster was correct ... if the world would just let rational women, with no political axe to grind, sort through some of these issues, more would be accomplished?
Leslie B and Gerry, good posts and very much my feelings in most cases.
thank you all for your heartfelt input. It means a lot to me..... I am trying to understand everyone's point of view regardless of whether you live on the hill, in the valley, or on the plains. It's what makes this country great. :p
I do believe if we took politics and religion out of these issues, we could make head way in solving them. A little less gov't, a little more personal action.
I used to believe that sex ed was best taught at home... no need bringing up dirty subjects in school, right? Well, as an adult, and having seen a bit more of the country now, I have certainly changed my mind. Sex ed (emotional and physical) is NOT being taught in the majority of homes! This is a tragedy. If Planned Parenthood is doing more abortions than education.... it's because no teenager is walking by PP saying, "Hey, those sex ed classes look like fun, let's go check em out." lol. No, they only go thru the doors after it's too late and someone is hurt or pregnant.
Let's figure out how to educate our future leaders.
To the original post, I do not see a "war on women". I see women (probably thru upbringing, social, historical, whatever you call it) who do not insist on better treatment. I wonder ... How many times do women actually go tell their boss, "Hey, I do the same job, in the same way, and do it better...I'm worth what Joe is making... Pay me". And how many times do women just keep quiet?
This breaks my heart. A woman going through a miscarriage denied an abortion and dies. She had legitimate need as her life was in danger. I can't imagine the pain her husband must feel. Is it not enough that he lost his baby--he had to lose his wife to? To what end? This is not the first time something like this has been in the news too bad it probably won't be the last. I wonder how often this happens and doesn't make news.