Push will affect hunting in the area of the fall even at short distances. Will your dog hunt into the wind when he is in the area of the fall? Thorw lots of marks angled into the wind.
On marks at a test, bias your dog to get the wind. In training, teach them to figt the wind but learn to stay in and area and persistently hunt the slighest whiff. But at the same time you need to teach them about drag-back--This is a tough combo and requires time and well-designed set-ups.
On blinds at a test, be sure your ending is downwind BUT never gamble that your dog will smell the bird on the downwind side. In training, be sure you can get a cast into the wind at the end (or any time!). Bear down and concentrate on the endings in training so you can do it in tests.
Wind saves are what dogs have noses for. The judge that downscores a "wind save" deserves to own a dog that can't smell!!!
PS. Just more from the "wind" gallery!!!
Thanks I think..
I have spent the last half hour by first looking up the definition of the word you used,, then I had to look up several of the words the dictionary used to define it.!!
Ya either complimennted the training group,, or you gave them sympathy sarcsticalistically.
They's a special bunch a people.. I cant believe they invite me back each week..
Thanks. I just added an "e" that didn't belong. :mad: You're right, though; I misread "lighting" as "lightning". I don't know what the OP got upset about, but I think there have been numerous helpful responses.
As an aside, by calling 'factors' a buzz word I don't mean to suggest that it's a new term. I just think it's become one of those words that has been tossed around so much that many people have come to use it without a clear understanding of its meaning. There is nothing cryptic about elements that fit the profile of a factor. But as people have been drawn into retriever sports I've noted that there is a self-imposed push to acquire the use of jargon, and that sometimes the meaning and significance of some terms is assumed incorrectly.
I thought I understood what the OP was looking for until post #3. I hoped to be helpful, but have perhaps missed the mark.
I vote for wind discussion. I think it is really important when judges set the trial up to be very cognizant to use the wind to their favor. So it behoves the handles to understand how the dog will react and know how to correct when training and in a trial. Bird placement (downwind bird or if the bird is thrown into the wind) are important to discuss as to how the dog will react. JMHO
Very good point here.
I have had to learn that you can't watch the mark only, you have to see the mark with one eye and he dog with the other. I can always tell when my dog marked it and when he didn't.
If for some reason I didn't see him, I can always ask him "Where's your mark?" and his reaction will tell me if he marked it. You may not want to do that at a test.
If it is a second mark, I can tell by the way he comes back and lines himself up (or doesn't).
On the factors, wind is the most pervasive it seems. Other than that, I have been taught to look at the line, and generally a dog wants to go where water would. Obviously this is not directly applicable to uphill marks.
Do you guys put the birds where a dog doesn't want to go and then set the line based on the factors, or do you choose the line and factors and then place the bird?
This is a good question albeit off the thread topic! When I judge I really pay attention and record where the dog started his hunt. That is where the dog first thought the bird was. After that is all about how well he hunts it up.
On a mark where a dog is running past and smells a bird, I mark where the dog first smelled the bird as where he started his hunt!! Then he works out how to get the bird. If the dog smelled the bird two feet away, he obviously was very close to the bird. If he smelled it 50 yards away, he was not so close and is scored accordingly. So if the dog was out of the area of what I consider the fall and smelled the bird, of course he would not score as well. But I do not penalize the dog for smelling the bird-as I said that is why they have noses!!!
I have found this to be a good way to deal with these long-distance so-called "wind saves" over the years.
PS. I disagree with the philosphy of some HRC judges that penalize a dog on a blind for smelling the bird and going to it even if it is only 2-3 feet. That is not hunting up the bird, that is putting the dog where he can scoop up the bird in a few feet.
I have rarely had anyone when discussing factors,add the factor of water current.
Dennis, I am surprised at your remark about some Hrc judges.
I have not experienced this. In fact the rule book clearly states that the dogs nose is a valuable asset, and the dog should not be penalized for honoring it.
what I have seen is dogs on blinds that as soon as the handler sends, the dog drops its nose, and hunts all the way out on the blind, until the dog winds the bird
the handler will show little if any control, and not demonstrate team work,and the dog will be dropped.