How Factors Effect Dogs

Gooser Get's it ... :cool:

Dennis said originally

PS. I disagree with the philosphy of some HRC judges that penalize a dog on a blind for smelling the bird and going to it even if it is only 2-3 feet. That is not hunting up the bird, that is putting the dog where he can scoop up the bird in a few feet.

So,,remember the dog has winded the bird,, for a handler to blow a whistle at that point is time is a silly manuver,, and MOST HRC judges will ignor the whistle ,,and NOT penalize the dog They Frankly "dont give a Damn":)

It is off topic,, but If you are under judgement,, and you have run the blind,, and done a respected job of keeping the dog online,, and attacking the factors,, and you also, have put the dog in a position to wind the bird, and the dog winds that bird 50 yrds away, because of a wind shift,,Is the blind over at that point?

I guess its still knda on topic if ya consider that most have said Wind being the top choice of factors.
Gooser

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Originally Posted by MooseGooser

Dennis said originally

PS. I disagree with the philosphy of some HRC judges that penalize a dog on a blind for smelling the bird and going to it even if it is only 2-3 feet. That is not hunting up the bird, that is putting the dog where he can scoop up the bird in a few feet.

So,,remember the dog has winded the bird,, for a handler to blow a whistle at that point is time is a silly manuver,, and MOST HRC judges will ignor the whistle ,,and NOT penalize the dog They Frankly "dont give a Damn":)

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Still gets a WR in my book ... doubt if it would be the deciding factor changing a pass to marginal or marginal to fail but it could ... I've never droped a dog for slipping the whistle at the pole but have always written it down ... :razz:

Now back on topic wind is the primary factor impacting dog performance in my view ... so I vote WIND

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Originally Posted by RetrieversONLINE

ALWAYS play the WIND!

Push will affect hunting in the area of the fall even at short distances. Will your dog hunt into the wind when he is in the area of the fall? Thorw lots of marks angled into the wind.

On marks at a test, bias your dog to get the wind. In training, teach them to figt the wind but learn to stay in and area and persistently hunt the slighest whiff. But at the same time you need to teach them about drag-back--This is a tough combo and requires time and well-designed set-ups.

On blinds at a test, be sure your ending is downwind BUT never gamble that your dog will smell the bird on the downwind side. In training, be sure you can get a cast into the wind at the end (or any time!). Bear down and concentrate on the endings in training so you can do it in tests.

Wind saves are what dogs have noses for. The judge that downscores a "wind save" deserves to own a dog that can't smell!!!

PS. Just more from the "wind" gallery!!!

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This is one of my pet peeves, throwing memory marks in training with the wind. Never say never, but I try very hard to never throw a memory mark with the wind, always into the wind. A dog can naturally fade with the wind, why reinforce this? We all do things differently but throwing long memory marks with the wind I feel is contrary to all age training. I'm not saying there is no good AA test with a money bird thrown with the wind because there is with good bird placement and other factors but I'll play the percentages. Dennis gave an outstanding training tip, lots of angle back throws into the wind, lots, and lots of them. I dont believe a dog can get enough of them in his life time! And FWIW, in training put your most experienced thrower on that long into the wind bird so the handler has the correct help when he needs it! To expound on the "wind gallery" what's the most difficult wind direction for a dog to negotiate on a mark?

I am going to go out on a limb and choose visual factors followed by scent factors then physical factors. I am sure there are many more, but these are my top three.

I say visual is the primary factor because it can effect a dog on a retrieve way before it gets into the scent of the fall. The visual factors I am thinking of is an angle entry into water, bog swims, fallen trees, dark cover, etc. I feel these factors have a larger impact early in the retrieve than wind or terrain. In addition, I feel retrievers run based on visual marking and memory and use scent to pinpoint the bird at close range.

I feel wind is second due to the fact it can give away a mark from a long distance or hide a mark from close distances. In addition, it can cause a dog to fade, not take cast, etc.

I feel physical factors such as hills is a third in my book. Fading down a side hill or squaring up a hill can cause big problems as well.

Any one of these and other factors can change in the order of importance based on the actual retrieve and timing through the day. Sometimes sunlight changes and makes a retrieve easier or harder at certain parts of the day. Sometimes it's wind changes that do the same.

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Originally Posted by cpmm665

I'm working on a 30-40 minute presentation to offer at a Club meeting. The topic will be "How Factors Effect Dogs (terrain, cover, wind, lighting). Rather than simply regurgitate material already on the market, I've decided to draw on the wisdom and experiences of this forum for ideas. I'm undecided if I'll do this via power point or lecture and white board. For formalities sake, let's assume my audience has all followed a dedicated training program and has dogs ready to do AKC Master level work. What advice would you offer the group as to how factors effect dogs? If you were asked to speak on only one factor(terrain, cover, wind, lighting) and emphasize the most important thing to be aware of as a Handler, what would it be?

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Cindy,

Is voting on favorite factors what you were after?

Evan

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Originally Posted by MooseGooser

Dennis said originally

PS. I disagree with the philosphy of some HRC judges that penalize a dog on a blind for smelling the bird and going to it even if it is only 2-3 feet. That is not hunting up the bird, that is putting the dog where he can scoop up the bird in a few feet.

So,,remember the dog has winded the bird,, for a handler to blow a whistle at that point is time is a silly manuver,, and MOST HRC judges will ignor the whistle ,,and NOT penalize the dog They Frankly "dont give a Damn":)

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What does the dog do out in a real hunting scenario? He probably winds the bird.

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Originally Posted by RetrieversONLINE

This is a good question albeit off the thread topic! When I judgeg I really pay attention and record where the do started his hunt. That is where the dog first thought the bird was. After that is all about how well he hunts it up.

On a mark where a dog is running past and smells a bird, I mark where the dog first smelled the bird as where he started his hunt!! Then he works out how to get the bird. If the dog smelled the bird two feet away, he obviously was very close to the bird. If he smelled it 50 yards away, he was not so close and is scored accordingly. So if the dog was out of the area of what I consider the fall and smelled the bird, of course he would not score as well. But I do not penalize the dog for smelling the bird-as I said that is why they have noses!!!

I have found this to be a good way to deal with these long-distance so-called "wind saves" over the years.

PS. I disagree with the philosphy of some HRC judges that penalize a dog on a blind for smelling the bird and going to it even if it is only 2-3 feet. That is not hunting up the bird, that is putting the dog where he can scoop up the bird in a few feet.

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Thanks for they reply ...I agree with your thoughts..Record where the dog started it's hunt....On a blind 2-3 feet downwind is a good spot to be ...As you said put the dog in a spot they can use their nose....As far as a whistle after the dog has shown they know where the bird is unneeded...Some times a handler blows just as the dog indicates and the sound probably doesn't arrive until the dog has the bird....I believe anytime you talk about the wind being a factor of influence it goes in the direction of how much is allowed by the judges and how tight should the handler play the line on a blind....Steve S